Swinging with married m/f whose spouse does not know

We've met (through IM Chat's and e-mails) two individuals, one male and one female, who my wife and I have interest in playing with in MFM and FMF situations. Problem is that both of these individuals have stated upfront to us that they are both married, in committed relationships and their spouse's do not know about their extra-curricular activities.

 

Our question is, how should we proceed with both of these situations. We know that it probably is not the best thing to pursue, but in both situations we have a lot in common and have hit it off well!

 

Has anyone else had an experience like this and pursued it? Good or bad experiences?

 

THanks everyone for your comments.

I hate to play the Morality Card here, because goodness knows "swingers" are in a constant battle with the Morality Police, but .....

 

It is whatever you both feel comfortable with ... that is the bottom line.

 

My own personal opinion, that I share with my husband and many others in this lifestyle is this: What if it was you? What if you and YOUR spouse were not both on board with this lifestyle? What if it were one of you who was secretly scouting a secret life outside your marriage and being deceptive to your spouse to achieve that secret life?

 

I know it is not your place to judge others, or to try to be a marriage counselor, or to wonder what it is that compels people to go outside their marriage and be deceitful. And like I said, it's up to what you and your spouse feel comfortable with. It's just my opinion that it will only lead to more complex issues in the future ... the drama that accompanies a marriage where one partner finds it necessary to seek outside companionship in any form without the other spouse's knowledge and/or consent, and especially the intense drama and ramifications that follow the unknowing spouse's possible discovery of the deceit.

 

There are many in the lifestyle that facilitate cheating ... and that's fine. To each their own. Hopefully, they have weighed the pros and cons and have determined that it's a risk they are willing to take. However, that's not us, and it's not many lifestylers that we know.

 

By no means am I an expert, but I HAVE been cheated on, I have cheated, and believe me ... it's really just not worth the risk to get caught up in all that entails.

Difficult one - we have entertained married people in MMF situations, we feel its not our decision, and we are always discreet, no matter anyone's marital status.

 

However, we did feel very bad when we received a very terse e-mail from one fella who stated that his wife had caught him swinging (not with us) and please not to contact him again.

 

We however, do have a rule that we insist is sacrosant - no secrets! We do play seperately from time to time, but always with the blessing of the other, and full disclosure afterwards (usually leads places....), and would never cheat on each other.

As the others have said, it is up to you to decide where your line is. Personally I will never swing with someone who's SO has no idea what is going on. I do play with a married man from time to time, BUT his wife knows, my husband knows and we are all 100% fine with it. We are also friends as well. If I knew his wife didn't know, well then it would never happen.

 

I am not in swinging to wreck marriages or get involved in drama, I don't want to hurt anyone. I automatically put myself in the wife's shoes and think how I would feel if I were her.

 

I guess you have to decide if it is worth it in the long run and go from there.

we feel its not our decision

 

We have chosen to retain the right and ability to make decisions... Even in swinging...

 

So - no - we would not play with a cheater. Cheaters will cheat - that is their decision. We will not "cheat" with them - that is ours.

 

Spoomonkey

We've met (through IM Chat's and e-mails) two individuals, one male and one female, who my wife and I have interest in playing with in MFM and FMF situations. Problem is that both of these individuals have stated upfront to us that they are both married, in committed relationships and their spouse's do not know about their extra-curricular activities.

 

Our question is, how should we proceed with both of these situations. We know that it probably is not the best thing to pursue, but in both situations we have a lot in common and have hit it off well!

 

Has anyone else had an experience like this and pursued it? Good or bad experiences?

 

THanks everyone for your comments.

 

WOW.......uh uh uh you should do what YOU want to do but , at the risk of someone finding out and coming after us with a shotgun, hmmmmmm just kinda ruines the mood for us at least

 

Neither one of us would want our spouse to do this to us, and in our book...yes it is wrong....

The only time we have played with a married person, we insist on meeting and getting permission from the person's spouse.

 

Besides there are WAYYYYYYY too many fish in the sea to "KNOWINGLY" hook up with a married person out sneaking around on their spouse

 

We , ourselves would end the relationships with these people, and find someone you can see and enjoy without the stress and worry of getting caught,

 

Just OUR oppinion...........good luck to ya'

 

xoxoxoTnC

I personally did not take a long time with the answer to this question...for US it is an absolute NO-NO...You do need to do whatever it is that works for you (but the whole shotgun issue is probably no joke ) Good luck with whatever choice you two make, just posting the questions and (hopefully) looking at the feedback shows that you two are at least seriously considering all of the consequences.

You’re crazy to pursue these avenues. The risk of having a vengeful, and possibly psycho, jilted lover coming after you and making your life hell is just not worth a few moments of sexual pleasure. Not only that, what does it say of their character and your own? How can you trust these people to NOT try to use any encounters against you at a later date?

Lets see...

 

#1 Personal safety. People who get cheated on can do crazy things. You have no idea what the spouce is like, but the world is full of nutballs.

 

#2 Being outed. Even if they don't go psycho they can get revenge by outing you, which for some people could cost them jobs/friends etc.

 

#3 Don't want to be part of someone elese marital issues.

 

#4 Mrs. Chicup would never do it as the very idea of cheating sickens her.

 

I could see special circumstances where this could be justified (and they would have to be very special ones) but with just random online people I can't see it being a good thing.

As is getting more and more the case, we agree fully with Spoomonkey. We don't cheat and we don't like cheaters. The lifestyle should be about everyone having fun. CHEATING AIN'T FUN! It's serious and it hurts people. We're not into anyone getting hurt.

 

If we play with a single we must know that they are not attached. All attached people swinging single will say that they have the permission of their SO. Bull!

What spoomonkey said!!

 

...there are WAYYYYYYY too many fish in the sea to "KNOWINGLY" hook up with a married person out sneaking around on their spouse

So you "have a lot in common and have hit it off" - well there are lots of people out there who could offer you the same, and they're not cheating on their spouse.

 

It amounts to what you are willing to do...or not to do in the name of sex.

 

LM

Dito I know not much of a contributor here . Ok I will just a little. I would be Heart broken if I found out my SO had knowingly went behind my back so start a "relationship of sorts" with anyone. I have stated this here before but here I go again. Once a cheater always a cheater, My SO and I have come upon the agrement many yrs ago that We could guarntee that we would not cheat, How you ask? Well this is it, I brought up the fact that if I ever felt for any reason sexually unhappy that I would tell him we had problems and that we needed to fix it or I would go elsewhere. Luckilly we have not had to deal with this issue, I think we were both in a Sexual Funk for a while and Swinging came in at the Best possible time and has spiced up our Sex lives just enough to where neither of us have the want or need to go else where with out the other.

Theres My 2 Cents

Curious

Simply because I have been cheated on and because I have myself cheated, I don't necessarily agree with the adage, "once a cheater, always a cheater".

 

Cheating happens because of many factors, not the least of which is disrespect for your partner, and also a great deal of miscommunication or an extreme lack of communication.

 

I KNOW I will never cheat again. I have no doubts that my hubby will never cheat again. I greatly suspect that my ex-husband will never cheat again (which is kind of annoying to me, since he will never cheat on the woman he left me for, but oh well. lol No longer my issue.)

 

Sometimes you have to be in the thick of cheating to truly understand the devastation that it causes. So it is very easy for those who have never been in a situation like that to easily say, "once a cheater, always a cheater".

 

We are humans. We make mistakes. What separates us from the animals is our ability to take the opportunity to LEARN from our mistakes. Some people do not take advantage of such opportunities, and those are people that I sincerely believe are just plain stupid. Not stupid in an insulting way, but truly ignorant that they do not afford themselves the opportunity to use their mistakes as a way to truly reflect on their mistakes, examine their shortcomings and improve themselves. It is the truly ignorant who blame society, their upbringing and anyone else they can find for their own victimization or their victimizing of others. :rollseyes

 

We live in a world where it is become far too acceptable to shirk responsibility for our failures. I am a continually evolving process of breaking out of that world ... it was MY fault I cheated on my husband. Yes, I was unhappy. Yes, I escaped. But it was wrong and it was MY wrong. First I had to accept that to understand why I would never cheat again. And I will not.

 

My husband and I have been through A LOT ... a lot more in our short 7 years together than many people deal with in a lifetime. But I can genuinely say that we are closer today than we have ever been. We are more communicative. We are more honest. We are more RESPECTFUL of each other, and thereby more loving. We are genuinely happy for the first time in all those years.

Sorry for the rant ... it just touched a nerve.

Has anyone else had an experience like this and pursued it?

Well, this probably doesn't count due to cultural differences. But Mrs. T has a French playmate whose wife operates a don't ask/don't tell policy.

 

That way they can keep up the facade that everything is 'normal'. But as I said, France is not the Midwest of the US - but you knew that

Simply because I have been cheated on and because I have myself cheated, I don't necessarily agree with the adage, "once a cheater, always a cheater".

 

Cheating happens because of many factors, not the least of which is disrespect for your partner, and also a great deal of miscommunication or an extreme lack of communication.

 

I KNOW I will never cheat again. I have no doubts that my hubby will never cheat again. I greatly suspect that my ex-husband will never cheat again (which is kind of annoying to me, since he will never cheat on the woman he left me for, but oh well. lol No longer my issue.)

 

Sometimes you have to be in the thick of cheating to truly understand the devastation that it causes. So it is very easy for those who have never been in a situation like that to easily say, "once a cheater, always a cheater".

 

We are humans. We make mistakes. What separates us from the animals is our ability to take the opportunity to LEARN from our mistakes. Some people do not take advantage of such opportunities, and those are people that I sincerely believe are just plain stupid. Not stupid in an insulting way, but truly ignorant that they do not afford themselves the opportunity to use their mistakes as a way to truly reflect on their mistakes, examine their shortcomings and improve themselves. It is the truly ignorant who blame society, their upbringing and anyone else they can find for their own victimization or their victimizing of others. :rollseyes

 

We live in a world where it is become far too acceptable to shirk responsibility for our failures. I am a continually evolving process of breaking out of that world ... it was MY fault I cheated on my husband. Yes, I was unhappy. Yes, I escaped. But it was wrong and it was MY wrong. First I had to accept that to understand why I would never cheat again. And I will not.

 

My husband and I have been through A LOT ... a lot more in our short 7 years together than many people deal with in a lifetime. But I can genuinely say that we are closer today than we have ever been. We are more communicative. We are more honest. We are more RESPECTFUL of each other, and thereby more loving. We are genuinely happy for the first time in all those years.

Sorry for the rant ... it just touched a nerve.

 

 

In my own defense I have been the one that has been cheated on and have also been the Cheater in my Youth. My point was that if Someone will knowing go behind someone elses back and "cheat" rather than talking it out with their SO then whos to say that they wouldnt again? I think that this lifestyle is supposed be about communication and trust between partners not Cheating and Cover up stories between Cross lovers. yes I am a bit annoyed by the implication that I have never been there therefore I am "stupid" I have been there and VOW to never be there again. My SO has also been in the position and Hence the reason that WE as a couple have agreed to take on this lifestyle Full force to work out any "kinks" we may or may not have.

 

Mr. Curious States " Everyone makes mistakes and they must learn from them, but if we that have been there before facilitate the dishonesty, in my personal opinion then we have given that person the opinion that cheating is acceptable and will they never learn from the example that we have set? It is our responsibility as people to help those people understand before something has happened that if they break that trust with their SO there may be no going back as many people outside the Lifestyle believe "Once a Cheater always a Cheater" Because they Themselves are unwilling or to scared to confront the problem and evolve from it, I personaly was there and have evolved to this point in time my Ex however probably will never, as she continues cheating time after time with no remorse."

 

Again sorry about the rant but this is a Touchy subject among many I am sure. Surrender

 

Mr. and Mrs. CuriousInOregon

No no no no NO!!!!!!!!! YOU are not stupid ... and I did not mean in any way to imply to YOU that you are.

 

People who REFUSE to learn from their mistakes are stupid.

 

It looks like, in reading your reply, you and I are on exactly the same page in our beliefs.

No no no no NO!!!!!!!!! YOU are not stupid ... and I did not mean in any way to imply to YOU that you are.

 

People who REFUSE to learn from their mistakes are stupid.

 

It looks like, in reading your reply, you and I are on exactly the same page in our beliefs.

 

ok sorry to have gotten so far off guard Did not mean to attack in any way shap or form Surrender Cheating in my book is a big

As difficult as it is to find a woman to join for a FFM, personally, we don't care if they are married and the husband doesn't know. We're just glad that a woman wants to join us at all! We're not into the "making friends" thing and it's just sex for us. We don't want any one else's drama so we don't get involved with their personal life. Of course, this is us and our opinion.

 

Bottom line, it's a personal decision and what you are comfortable with. I would say that if you are going to be "friends", then no. If it's a one night thing, then.....

ok sorry to have gotten so far off guard Did not mean to attack in any way shap or form Surrender Cheating in my book is a big

 

 

A big in mine as well.

 

See! WE are the successful learners from our mistakes! We ARE the ones that can be providing an example.

 

My earlier response to the original poster, in which I told them that they should do whatever they are comfortable with, in no way should have implied that I was accepting or in agreement. In fact, that is why I went on to qualify my post with my own personal opinion. It is definitely off limits and I in no way want to convey to anyone that it is acceptable behavior.

 

But we are all adults ... and people are gonna do whatever they want to do. The best people like you and I, Curious, can do is to let them know, "Hey, been there, done that, got the t-shirt ... it turned out to be ugly and doesn't fit anymore, and I realize now I should never have even gotten it!"

We once unknowingly played with a cheater, we later found out that the couple we played with were not married to each other and both were cheating on their spouses. Then one day we ran into the female with her real husband in a social setting. Man was that a weird situation, I can't even describe how uncomfortable it was for us. And even though we have always had the policy of not playing with cheaters, we are even more vigilant now because we don't ever want to repeat that experiance again.

It's an awkward experience, indeed, GoodTimes.

 

VERY recently, my husband and I were at a swingers club together. A woman came up, called my husband by name, and when we both turned to her, she said, "Hey [Mr. txduo] ... I thought that was you! How have you been? It's so good to see you guys again!" She was speaking to both of us.

 

Guess what???? .... I had never seen nor met this woman, nor her husband, in my life.

 

She was part of a couple that my husband had met while he was dating another woman (while we were separated). But even though we were separated, this was still a VERY awkward moment ... for both of us.

You might not have to face any of the consequences of that participation but I wouldn't want to be in their spouses shoes when they have to face it. (Everyone finds out eventually if their mate is cheating)

Then again, you may end up with a very angry husband or wife standing on your doorstep. Probably more likely a husband simply because women tend to give up any information they have once they're busted.

oh and just one more little thing to think about: If they're lieing to the person they live with and share all of their life with....Can YOU trust them? Don't be surprised when they try to get one of you to play seperately.

This is a very sensitive subject indeed, and it pushes lots of buttons for everyone. I expect to see a post by JnCC here sometime soon.

 

I agree with the Spoomonkeys. We cannot force our opinions on others or pressure them to adopt our beliefs, but we sure can decide to remove ourselves from the bad karma of it all. I firmly believe that cheating indicates an unhealthy relationship. As such, they need help, not encouragement. Neither I nor Mr. intuition will willingly be a party to enabling cheating, as it is a very negative way to deal with problems in a relationship. The horseshit about "what he/she doesn't know won't hurt him/her" is a total crock. My own religious beliefs being what they are, I believe that we will all be enlightened one day to everything. Every bad thought you ever had, every evil wish you ever wished...and every foul thing you ever did to another person...will be public knowledge. You will be seen for what and who you truly are, and there will be no hiding it. We all have our regrets. I don't think there are many who don't have at least one. All we can do is the best we can to not repeat our mistakes.

 

Personally, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night having knowingly 'swung' with someone who was lying to his/her spouse. Either we must be reasonably sure that we are not harming anyone spiritually, emotionally or physically, or we do not participate. This is our own preference. Others may disagree, and we may be called judgmental for it, but frankly m'dear I don't give a damn. Nothing obligates us to play with someone for any reason, and this is one of our criteria.

It is something we wouldn't do either...sorry. It's your decision though.

 

M.D.

My own religious beliefs being what they are, I believe that we will all be enlightened one day to everything. Every bad thought you ever had, every evil wish you ever wished...and every foul thing you ever did to another person...will be public knowledge.

Intuition, if you're correct, then I'm gonna be up shit creek without the proverbial paddle.

Ok, I won't debate the morality of it, cause we've got ours to live by, and everyone else here has their own to answer to.

 

So, the Objectivist in me looks at it from the logical view.

If we swing with a married person without the knowledge of their spouse, there is much more that can go awry than if we swing with a single, or with a couple.

 

I'm not saying that things can't go bad with a single or couple, I'm just "playing percentages".

 

One of my philosophies is "pursue pleasure, but not at the cost of another person's happiness". If we participated in this activity, then it would be at the cost of the other spouse's happiness.

Yup! two4u, I think we'll all be lookin' for paddles if I am correct. I don't expect anyone else to believe that, but this is the way I see things. That we'll all be held accountable for our lives in the end...somehow. Precisely how, I have no idea. This vision in my head of all of Humanity seated in a colossal stadium while your own personal - very personal - life is played for everyone's viewing pleasure on the Jumbovision... well it's a pretty comical actually. I just think it will be more like having our blinders finally removed and we'll see things - and each other - as we really are. Wonderful...and very scary!

 

I like your philosophy. "Pursue pleasure, but not at the cost of another person's happiness". It is perfect.

This is a very sensitive subject indeed, and it pushes lots of buttons for everyone. I expect to see a post by JnCC here sometime soon.

Naaaahhh...I don't have a dog in this fight. This might be one of those questions that, like so many others, is best answered by a "whatever works for them" response.

 

There IS one question I would have for the OP though...

 

"Why, with so many unmarried and unattached people out there, would you consider going through all the hassle of choosing one who IS in some way "encumbered" by a full-time relationship?"

 

Placing aside whatever moral or ethical considerations one might have about playing with married people, the fact is that they're often difficult to schedule into playtime. They go from "difficult" to "extremely difficult" when they're trying to free up the better part of an evening to do something their wife or husband clearly would NOT approve of.

 

Because they're taking the time to get to know these folks a little bit, I assume they're interested in the possibility of more than just a one-time encounter. If that's the case, then continually sneaking around, trying to keep everything on the QT, the ever-present threat of discovery and most of all, the inevitable last-minute cancellations that are an intrinsic part of playing with cheaters are gonna get old REAL fast.

 

If all the OP is looking for is a "one-time, no-questions asked" sex encounter, they should probably consider just going to a club, picking out the best physical specimen(s) that'll have them, and go for it.

 

I don't know why anybody would put up with the hassle of a married person playing alone, and I don't know how anybody couldn't know (or at least suspect) their playmate was attached, unless they're fucking them on a first-date or at a club.

We would and have. Its NOT our favorite thing to do but it is NOT our job to police it. We keep swinging VERY discrete and dont worry too much about the SO finding out and causing problems.

 

But we see why others wouldn't want to play with cheaters and respect them for it.

As difficult as it is to find a woman to join for a FFM, personally, we don't care if they are married and the husband doesn't know. We're just glad that a woman wants to join us at all! We're not into the "making friends" thing and it's just sex for us. We don't want any one else's drama so we don't get involved with their personal life. Of course, this is us and our opinion.

 

Bottom line, it's a personal decision and what you are comfortable with. I would say that if you are going to be "friends", then no. If it's a one night thing, then.....

 

We would and have. Its NOT our favorite thing to do but it is NOT our job to police it. We keep swinging VERY discrete and dont worry too much about the SO finding out and causing problems.

 

But we see why others wouldn't want to play with cheaters and respect them for it.

 

Dito

 

We are that awful (but dead sexxy! ), morally defunct couple nobody wants to play with...

 

Our personal relationships with our spouses are our own responsiblity and we ask no one bear the burden of the circumstances that may arise as a result of our decisions. This Alternate Lifestyle is... well, "Alternate" and certainly not who we are 24/7. We (girlfriend and I) have our own lives, seperate of this and keep it that way. We've known each other since we were 13 and were "reacquainted" 4 years ago - we've had a blast ever since.

 

We've never tried swinging. We are, at this point, in the curious-but-willing stage. However, I'm a bit surprised (and somewhat discouraged) at the moral overtones I see via some of your posts. Maybe swinging has its own moral majority?

 

My girlfriend and her hubby are our (wife and I) friends but OBVIOUSLY do not share the same views we do - hence our situation. We are adults who choose to make adult decision, whether that conforms to anyone's moral template. We are, however, fully aware of the consequences of our actions and take full responsibility.

 

Swinging (alternate lifestyle) is where we want to go to really get away from it all and have a little sexual fun. Though, obviously we will make friends/aquaintances along the way, we certainly are not making it the end-all, be-all center of our universe.

 

I hope to find the right couple for us. One who won't judge us for the decisions we make for ourselves. One who wants to have a great (hott!) time occasionally and know we won't ask you to gather round the Thanksgiving table every year.

 

I hope we find the right couple(s) out there...

 

BTW- Hope they're in the Sacramento area!

We have no desire to decide what someone else's morals should be. If another person wants to cheat, hell, we don't care. But we don't want to be a part of it either.

 

Oklahoma has a "concealed carry" gun law and a surprising number of licensed Sooners are packing a gun at any given time. Women have them in their purses, men in their boots, etc., etc.

 

We have no desire to be looking down the mean-end of a Colt .45, nor do we wish to compare our quick-draw skills with any other person. Pitched gun fights are no substitute for swinging fun.

 

It's much easier, not even to mention safer, to find an interested couple and take turns having threesomes. Besides, there are a lot more possible combinations.

 

Mr. Alura

Here's another slant on this question:

 

Many years ago I read an article about research that showed that one reason folks cheat is for revenge, not necessarily for cheating. In order to gain revenge, the other person must be hurt. In order to hurt him/her through cheating, he/she has to know about it. Therefore, it's not surprising that a lot of cheaters "confess."

 

In fact, also a long time ago when I was single, I met a woman who forgot to tell me she was married. We spent a week, while she was in my town on business, smoking pot and having sex. Of course, when she returned home she "told all" to her husband.

 

The worst, among many things he did, was report the tokin' to the police, who sent an agent around to try to buy dope from me. I didn't have any because she had provided the weed. He didn't tell the cops that part.

 

Mr. Alura

Our personal relationships with our spouses are our own responsiblity and we ask no one bear the burden of the circumstances that may arise as a result of our decisions.

 

However, I'm a bit surprised (and somewhat discouraged) at the moral overtones I see via some of your posts. Maybe swinging has its own moral majority?

It does...at least among the couples who regularly post to this board. However, as in any other public forum, popular viewpoints are shouted from rooftops, while dissenting voices are heard only in whispers. There are other people who are either in, or have been in, situations similar to yours who read and post to these forums. However, their wives/husbands also have access to this board, making it unlikely that they're going to post words of encouragement or support.

 

Great sermon! Wrong church maybe, but great, nonetheless...

I agree with what Jncc said, most people when asked, will say they are totally against playing with cheaters. Living in a tourist town though we see a lot of people show up at the clubs that we later find out weren't with their spouse and they don't seem to have any more problems than anyone else hooking up. For myself, I wouldn't knowingly play with a cheater for a lot of reasons but I think the main one is that someone that I don't respect I wouldn't find very sexy, and very few things make me lose respect for someone as fast as finding out they are a cheating on their spouse. That being said, I know for a fact we have unwhittingly played with cheaters at least once. I would guess from being regular club goers for the last 3 years that less than half of the people at a club party would not knowingly play with cheaters in the real world. So I think, at least in our area, we would be more of a moral minority than a majority.

First I will say I havent read every post on here but this is my opinion on the subject from the original question. We personally wont play with anyone who is cheating. And if we found out someone is cheating it would end quickly. Cheating is bad enough (IMHO) but to pull others into it is wrong. I couldnt even imagine what the spouses would feel like if they found out not only their hubby/wife is having an affair but to find out that they are screwing other people also. I wouldnt want to be the one that could hurt someone so horribly. You need to step back and think how would you feel if your spouse was doing this and not only swinging but cheating and swinging? If I were you I would send them a thanks but no thanks. This lifestyle works because of HONESTY and you would be starting it with a lie if you play with either the M or F. It may feel bad to say no and yes we have done it to a totally hot female because she told us her hubby would be pissed if he found out. But you will feel better about yourself for not going behind someone elses back.

 

okay off my soapbox

Our personal relationships with our spouses are our own responsiblity and we ask no one bear the burden of the circumstances that may arise as a result of our decisions.

Perhaps some do not feel they would bear a burden by playing with you both, but we certainly would, regardless of what you may or may not ask. The long and short of it is that while it is ultimately your personal decisions to be dishonest that your spouses will be concerned about, the fact that we enabled you to make that decision doesn't exactly give me a warm and fuzzy feeling. And that tug on our conscience is something that we can most certainly live without. So to the best of our ability, we do live without it.

 

This Alternate Lifestyle is... well, "Alternate" and certainly not who we are 24/7. We (girlfriend and I) have our own lives, seperate of this and keep it that way.

Yes, it's an alternate lifestyle and yes, it's usually kept hidden from the world at large, but it's not an escape that we leave the people we love behind for. It is not something that we hide from them; quite the contrary in fact, it is and extension of that life with them. Instead of having two separate lives that are always at conflict with one another, it makes more sense to incorporate the best of both worlds into one full and complete life with everyone fully aware and consenting.

 

We've never tried swinging. We are, at this point, in the curious-but-willing stage. However, I'm a bit surprised (and somewhat discouraged) at the moral overtones I see via some of your posts. Maybe swinging has its own moral majority?

Yup.

 

...the decisions we make for ourselves.

...and for your spouses too, of course.

 

I hope we find the right couple(s) out there...

I'm sure you will.

"There is so much good in the worst of us,

And so much bad in the best of us,

That it ill behooves any of us,

To say anything about the rest of us."

 

-Anon.

 

"There is so much good in the worst of us,

And so much bad in the best of us,

That it ill behooves any of us,

To say anything about the rest of us."

 

-Anon.

 

 

AKA Hypocrisy. Something about removing the log from one's own eye so that we can see clearly enough to remove the speck from our brother's eye.

 

Yeah, I know the saying. But it doesn't mean that you can say, "Yeah I just have this evil streak in me that I can't do anything about. So why bother trying? Just go with the flow." Knowing we have made, are making and will make bad decisions does not excuse us from the responsibility to put our lives right to the very best of our ability.

There is no bullshit arguement out there that is going to make us shrug our shoulders and say, "fine - we'll play with cheaters."

 

Folks can debate the point all they want, but it doesn't change a thing. Like GT said, it is hard to play with someone you don't respect - and I respect someone who would hurt their spouse about as much as I respect someone who would kick a puppy.

 

You'll certainly find someone with your low values to fuck you - you already have apparently - but don't get pissy because we won't join you. You are quite right that you can make the decision to cheat on your spouses - and you have the freedom to call it swinging if you want to. But we have the right to tell you to "blow off" when you approach us.

 

Maybe it is easy for us - we don't have to "take what we can get" in the swinging world. We have the luxury of being a little choosey... And we would choose better than to play with cheaters. There are plenty of legitimate couples out there with secure relationships who value marriage the way that we do.

 

Moral majority? Whatever... :rollseyes

 

Spoomonkey

 

PS - This has been kicked around so much with the same stupid rhetoric that it is a very tired issue. So, if my post on this is less than diplomatic it is simply because we've heard it all before - and it simply gets old after a while. Swinging isn't cheating - cheating isn't swinging.

Dito , Spoo!

 

Thanks,

Alura

 

I am so glad that you just laid it on the line Spoo. Although, I'm sure that you will get some people giving you some flack - I think that it needed to be said and in the tone that you used!!!

 

Jenn

I like to think I have a practical side. All "moral issues" aside, think about it.

 

It's not difficult to find unattached people to have sex with, why would you want to bring all of the drama and danger on yourself that swinging, playing, or screwing cheaters brings to you??

 

 

But, to each his own. I certainly am not going to try to "convert" any one.

Why is everyone getting so riled up? That is was not my intention here. I'm not force feeding our "values" (or lack there of, according to some) to anyone one here. I merely made one HONEST post to you folks and I'm nailed to the wall because some of you vehemently disagree?

 

Please point out where I had insulted you or suggested what you do with your life is IMMORAL or less than worthy because it does not follow some sort of moral compass. One (Spoomonkey) however, has felt it necessary to call my friend a person of "low values" whom I’ve chosen to "fuck". You know nothing about us, yet feel it appropriate to talk to/about us in that manner??

 

I know none of you - and you have no idea who I am or what my circumstances are, yet you somehow suggest my posts are "bullshit arguements" to demonstrate my views that "swinging is cheating" and vice versa - I never said such a thing. In fact I was honest about our situation to you when I responded to this post. I did not masquerade as someone else so I can "get into" your collective pants. I spoke my mind without being intentionally insulting to anyone... so I thought.

 

The quote I used was to merely drive my point home: "How is anyone more qualified to judge another person's life?" I don’t judge others and I did NOT imply anyone in here is a hypocrite (your words, not mine).

 

My partner and I are new to this idea and thought that we may have found a place that would enlighten us and make us feel welcome - so we could make an intelligent decision whether to pursue our feelings or not. At this point, we don't know what to think... except that non-conformity has it's boundaries and we are now much less likely to look at this lifestyle as open and understanding. Why are you demonizing us? Take us or leave us, but please don't insult us.

 

Anyhow, be well. I truly hope you find happiness and content within your lives.

I like to think I have a practical side. All "moral issues" aside...why would you want to bring all of the drama and danger on yourself that swinging, playing, or screwing cheaters brings to you?

If you look at it from a practical viewpoint, if all a person wants is a little novelty in their hum-drum sex life (and assuming that, for whatever reason, being in the lifestyle just isn't in the cards for him/her), having it with a married person can make a lot of sense...especially if the other person has no intention of leaving their marriage, either. I'm not advocating it...just making the observation, that's all.

 

It's pointless to try and "convert" anyone in here, because 99% of the time, it can't be done. But I don't think that's what he was trying to do, either. I think he was just sharing his perspective on the subject, and his message seemed to be quite honest, especially considering the pounding he must have known he was going to get from this board. It takes BALLS to voice a contrary opinion on this board, but he did it, and I, for one, respect him for it.

 

I totally missed the part where he "got pissy," was "desperate," or was trying to convince anybody to "play with cheaters."

 

The decision to play with a couple who are not married to each other is a matter of preference, not unlike the decision not to play with single males, people over or under a certain age, weight, physical appearance, or race. Nobody, including the person who made the post, is asking anybody to embrace his values. It would be nice if, for once, we could respond rationally to the ideas posted in here without resorting to personal insults and attacks.

I used the word "moral" with the parenthesis since the words "moral majority" were used. I really don't care what other people do as long as no one involves me unknowingly in something I don't want to be involved in.

 

I was just stating why I don't swing with women without their husbands consent and I don't have vanilla sex with married women. It's just a practical issue to me if for no other reason.

 

I'm sure to some people in some situations it makes sense and most of the time there aren't any ill effects on their personal life. No skin off my nose.

 

We all make our own decisions as to what risk we take. I was just stating I don't take those risk but certainly don't expect other people to behave a certain way just because I do (convert them).

 

JNCC, you and I both ride motorcycles and we both know the risk. But there would be a lot of other risk involved in riding a STOLEN motorcycle that I for one won't take for a myriad of reasons.

 

I thought the slogan was "Ride it LIKE you stole it" not "Ride it stolen".

 

There are too many glass walls at my house for me to throw stones at anyone. I was just stating some of the reasons (the non moral or judgemental ones), I don't knowingly do some things. Surrender

Why is everyone getting so riled up? That is was not my intention here. I'm not force feeding our "values" (or lack there of, according to some) to anyone one here. I merely made one HONEST post to you folks and I'm nailed to the wall because some of you vehemently disagree?

 

Please point out where I had insulted you or suggested what you do with your life is IMMORAL or less than worthy because it does not follow some sort of moral compass. One (Spoomonkey) however, has felt it necessary to call my friend a person of "low values" whom I’ve chosen to "fuck". You know nothing about us, yet feel it appropriate to talk to/about us in that manner??

 

I know none of you - and you have no idea who I am or what my circumstances are, yet you somehow suggest my posts are "bullshit arguements" to demonstrate my views that "swinging is cheating" and vice versa - I never said such a thing.

The thing is, we really don't care what your circumstances are. There is no plausible argument that makes this kind of dishonesty acceptable.

 

In fact I was honest about our situation to you when I responded to this post. I did not masquerade as someone else so I can "get into" your collective pants. I spoke my mind without being intentionally insulting to anyone... so I thought.

Honesty with us doesn't count if you're not being honest with your spouse.

 

The quote I used was to merely drive my point home: "How is anyone more qualified to judge another person's life?"

When we don't mind being judged using the same yardstick.

 

I don’t judge others and I did NOT imply anyone in here is a hypocrite (your words, not mine).

 

My partner and I are new to this idea and thought that we may have found a place that would enlighten us and make us feel welcome

Consider yourselves enlightened. It's not all rainbows and butterflies and fuzzy little bunnies. This shit is as real as it gets, and it's pretty much a guarantee that you'll hear things you don't want to hear. We just have no time for games. That said, it doesn't mean you are not welcome to be here. It's a great place to learn about swinging and all it entails. But don't expect us to roll over and say that what you're choosing to do is okay.

 

...we are now much less likely to look at this lifestyle as open and understanding. Why are you demonizing us? Take us or leave us, but please don't insult us.

We are open and understanding, but I think you're confusing 'open and understanding' with 'permissive', which we are not. We don't build fences the way vanilla people do, but we do have a certain "honour code" (to quote another board member) that is very firm, and that is that the primary relationship always comes first and is sacred. It is not to be fucked with.

After closer consideration, I withdrew my response.

 

Take care all...

Our personal relationships with our spouses are our own responsiblity and we ask no one bear the burden of the circumstances that may arise as a result of our decisions.

Unfortunately pissed-off spouses who find out make it our problem. A neighbor once thought I was having an affair with his wife (she was actually having an affair with two guys she worked with) and it escalated to the point where one night a SWAT team had to get him out his barricaded house and take him to jail.

 

We don't ever want that ever happen again because a married person cheating on their spouse gets caught with us. Been there, done that, it was scary as hell, and I wasn't even guilty.

 

Mr. WS

Unfortunately pissed-off spouses who find out make it our problem. A neighbor once thought I was having an affair with his wife (she was actually having an affair with two guys she worked with) and it escalated to the point where one night a SWAT team had to get him out his barricaded house and take him to jail.

 

We don't ever want that ever happen again because a married person cheating on their spouse gets caught with us. Been there, done that, it was scary as hell, and I wasn't even guilty.

 

Mr. WS

 

I can imagine the scare. What amazes me, however, is how many have vocalized the concern about gun-toting jealous husbands/wifes who they fear are capable of inflicting physical/fatal harm to their straying spouses etc.

 

I suppose that is a very real paranoia (or reality?) to some of you?

 

I'm not flaming anyone here. Just sharing an observation...

Honesty with us doesn't count if you're not being honest with your spouse.

 

This sums it up nicely...

 

The difference between us and cheaters is that every night I get to go to bed with the woman from whom I keep no secrets...

 

If we choose to play with cheaters, we choose to tangle ourselves in a decision that is hurting others - spouses, children, etc. If someone can not see the difference between this and other "preferences" then I wonder whether or not that person has been eating paint chips :rollseyes

 

I am pretty proud of the balls it takes for swingers to stand up for the kind of good marriages it takes to make swinging successful. I've not changed my tune one bit since getting involved in the lifestyle - but then again - I have a marriage worth valuing...

 

Spoomonkey