Jump to content
northindycpl

Cheating equals Swinging? Think again!

Recommended Posts

We have been discussing this topic for a long time now, and probably will for a long time to come... But what is it with Cheaters trying to Swing?

 

I have a philosophy that since swingers are such an accepting and friendly group, the cheaters flock here thinking this is their safe haven. How wrong can they be! :nono:

 

It is exactly this type of thing that gives swinging a horrible name. I heard something the other day from a woman that said she had the perfect marriage, until her husband started swinging and now they are divorced. head bang

 

Her marriage failed and it is the fault of swinging! :mad:

 

Pallleeeeese! How pathetic is that?

 

Bottom line- Swinging is not cheating, and cheaters are not swingers and they aren't welcome into the lifestyle.

 

I know all of you would agreee; it takes so much work on your marriage, everyday to remain in the lifestyle.

 

Cheating is the lazy and selfish approach to marriage.

 

I just had to get that off my chest!

Share this post


Link to post

There are so many misconceptions about swingers:

 

1. We are open to anything.

2. We have bad marriages and are having sex with others as a way to "patch holes".

3. We are easy.

4. We eat only fried foods.

 

I imagine that we could make a list a mile long and still just scratch the surface.

 

Cheaters come aboard, sincerely not understanding the baggage they are asking a swinging couple to carry for them. They figure that it is "just sex" so what's the big deal? Since we don't "value" our marriages (in their opinions) then we aren't going to worry much about the train wrecks that they have at home.

 

I think one of the refreshing things about swinging, and something I don't mind sharing pointedly with the cheaters who drop in from time to time, is that marriage is highly respected here. It may not always look like the Dr. Dobson ideal, but swinger marriages are typically very strong - not perfect, but strong.

 

And - we work on these marriages as hard or harder than anyone else in the world.

 

We actually have a sense of what it takes to keep a marriage strong, to communicate enough to make it exciting and how to work through sticky spots and navigate over life's little bumps in the road.

 

So - let them come...

 

Let them defend their reasons for cheating - and tell us that we don't understand...

 

And let us give them, one at a time, a piece of our mind and an education in what it takes to be a strong couple, a loyal and loving spouse, and a decent human being.

 

:hahaha:

 

Spoomonkey (feeling a wee bit wicked today)

Share this post


Link to post

This is absolutely the case with my wife and I. Since we married, I've (and she as well) have kept it at home with each other. We've made the decision together about checking out this life style. TOGETHER! That is why one of our rules is.....MARRIED COUPLES ONLY. Singles just don't cut it. Hey, we've been around the military tooooooo long and know most all of the lines.

Cheers.

Share this post


Link to post

Dito, HotMoCpl! If our playmates aren't risking just as much as we are, it is not a level playing field. We'll retreat into the safety of couples, thanks!

 

Alura

Share this post


Link to post

Well said group,

 

The only thing I have to ad is ont eh subject of singles. We do play wish some select singles, but when we look back to ditermine why we feel differently than the last post, it is because they were in the lifestyle prior to being single, and like the rest of the human race their circumstances changed. We look back in particular at two women and one man who have joined our fun, and the situations have been similar.

1) They were swingers before single

2) They know and respect our marriage and connecion.

3) They were great friends before lovers.

 

This made all the difference.

Share this post


Link to post

We agree that we would only play with married couples. Maybe cheaters think we are easy prey as some conceave us to be open to anything sexually.(with anyone) I'm not sure that everyone in the general public is aware that swingers are generally happily married couples sharing intimacy.........not just fucking.

Share this post


Link to post

I will admit that in my former ignorance, I thought swingers would basically screw anyone, anytime, anywhere. Fortunately, I've learned different. The first time I was exposed to what swinging really is it was on HBO's Real Sex program. It certainly opened my eyes to what swinging really is, or should be.

 

Opened my eyes and made me curious and here we are, two years later, almost ready to dive in. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Pinmonkey
Hey Spoomonkey...

 

 

 

I have to ask: What's fried foods got to do with swinging/sex?? :confused:

 

I'm not spoomonkey, nor will I play him on a message board, but I would like to answer for him in this case.

 

 

Have you, as a male, had your partner eat a fresh onion ring off your "member"? That is the height of foreplay my friend. That and the nice circular burn mark to wear proudly as a badge of courage.

 

 

That and greasy fingers make for some fun foreplay.

Share this post


Link to post

I think one of the refreshing things about swinging, and something I don't mind sharing pointedly with the cheaters who drop in from time to time, is that marriage is highly respected here. It may not always look like the Dr. Dobson ideal, but swinger marriages are typically very strong - not perfect, but strong.

 

 

We actually have a sense of what it takes to keep a marriage strong, to communicate enough to make it exciting and how to work through sticky spots and navigate over life's little bumps in the road.

 

 

It is this very attitude that brought my wife and I into the lifestyle, and it is reading posts like this that have kept us from being totaly disheartned because so far we have run into people who think more along the line of cheaters then swingers. we have met some nice people, but more often then not it has been the cheater types.. I think that has more to do with where we were looking.. but we are looking else where now.

Share this post


Link to post
I have to ask: What's fried foods got to do with swinging/sex?? :confused:

 

Everything, pune...

 

Everything...

 

:D

 

Spoomonkey

 

PS - Pinmonkey, the trick is to do it without the burns ;)

Share this post


Link to post

Yeah, we have to agree, most swingers we have come across are not cheaters, however we have come across people who got together to swing, who were married to other people, got together to cheat on their spouses with each other, and then swapped with other people while cheating on their spouses. And we decided no way with people like that. If you want to swing with us, you have to be a married couple, secure in your marriage and married to each other, and not cheating on a spouse. We have done some swinging with singles also, but just havn't had the luck meeting decent singles like we have with couples, and even then we have had trouble. There is one couple we swap with not on a regular basis, but consistantly and there is another couple we are getting to know that we might start swapping with. But in both circumstances we are with couples who are happily married and secure in their relationship. We have seen couples who say they want to swing, but when we meet them in person, we see what they are really like and have to turn them down. So be careful, know what to look for. And understand that it may take a while to find the right couple to swing with. But in the end it is worth it.

 

Hope we didn't bore you with all that. lol

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you all.

Share this post


Link to post

Some of the blame has to point toward the online dating and porn industry. Here is a sample of some of the emails that were in my spam trap today.

 

"Meet naughty married babes"

 

"Meet real women, couples and men and get LAID for FREE tonight." (this one is for an actual swingers site)

 

"Cheating Housewife Services"

 

"Thousands of horny wives looking for an adventure."

 

"Married whores"

 

"Directory of unfaithful wives"

 

"Get out this evening. Often married women have felt that they need more than are used to getting at home. They're ready and willing to to meet right now. They never play games. They know what they've been looking for and they dont mess around!"

 

With this kind of crap out there it's no wonder that men looking to cheat confuse cheating and swinging. This kind of garbage is what makes these guys think getting in with swingers is an easy way to do it, especially when a swinger's site promotes it this way! (by the way, it wasn't SLS).

 

It's also why so many have the wrong idea about why swingers swing. This type of stuff makes it look like we do it because one or the other isn't satisfied in the marriage. What kind of impression does this give the guy that wants to cheat, or the single guy that wants to get into the lifestyle?

 

Mr. WS

Share this post


Link to post

Yeah it is pretty pathetic that the spam portrays it that way.

 

I went the the Horney Houswives website, and there are swingers ads displayed

all over the place. That is how I found SLS to begin with!

Share this post


Link to post

My take on this subject for whatever my 2 cents is worth...

 

Cheaters are NOT trying to swing...they just think they are because they are confused!

 

Lets face it...the "vanilla" world has a huge misconception about what swinging is. They see us swingers as a bunch of horny people that will just drop down and do anyone that asks (or even just winks at us etc)!

 

The "cheaters" of this world are people that dont understand the importance of communication with those closest to them (their s/o) Things go wrong in their relationships and because of that their s/o isn't in the mood as often, so the "cheater" looks elsewhere for sex rather than sitting, talking and working out the problem.

 

I can see their point of view (sorta).... if i had this "vanilla" understanding of swinging and the lack of abilities to work out whatever problems in my own personal relationship, i guess I might be silly enuff to look into the lifestyle in an attempt to fix what I felt was wrong with my life. This wont work for these cheaters in the long run...but they seem to only be looking for the quick fix for their immediate wants, so they are looking in the wrong place!

 

If nothing else, feel sorry for these people! They really dont have a clue!

 

Laura

Share this post


Link to post

OK, I'm just a dreaded and redundant single male on this site...a "used-up, used-to-be-swinger." But I've been following this thread for a while, and maybe what I'm about to say won't make me a popular guy, but I see this whole "swinger vs cheater" thing from a slightly different perspective.

 

Cheaters are NOT trying to swing...they just think they are because they are confused!

Actually, I've spoken with a number of would-be "cheaters" who would LOVE to have their wives join them in this. They're here alone and on the sly only as a last resort...they'd much prefer that they were married to a partner who actively participated in this. It would make life SO much easier for them both!

 

And before anybody gets all high-fallutin' about how good their marriage is compared to the "cheaters"...remember that many times, they're trying to do this without their spouses knowledge in order to keep their marriage intact. If their marriage weren't important to them, the solution would be simple...dump the frumpy wife, get one who IS agreeable to this (and maybe 10 years younger as well), and put their children and friends through the emotional turmoil of a divorce. I know this sounds sick, but there's something to be said for a person who wants to avoid that.

 

The "cheaters" of this world are people that dont understand the importance of communication with those closest to them

I don't see how you can draw that conclusion about a person simply because he or she is looking for sex outside their marriage. We're understandably pissed when people make generalizations about "swingers"...let's not make them about cheaters, OK?

 

Communication is a two-way street...if the other person isn't listening, there's no use talking. If they're not talking, there's no use listening. And not all marriages can be saved by "communicating" any more than they can be enhanced by swinging. How would you respond if your spouse (and the mother of your 2 children, ages 1 and 3) woke you at 2 in the morning and "communicated" to you that she had joined a fanatic religious sect, and that unless you joined as well, your marriage would be in jeopardy? (Yes, it happened to me)

 

... if i had this "vanilla" understanding of swinging and the lack of abilities to work out whatever problems in my own personal relationship, i guess I might be silly enuff to look into the lifestyle in an attempt to fix what I felt was wrong with my life.

Cheaters don't expect that swinging will "fix whatever is wrong with their life" They expect that it will fix one specific thing in their life...that being the lack of physical interaction with another human being. There's no sin in that...People of all ages need to be touched. They need to be carressed, appreciated, told they are beautiful, made to feel worthwhile. Often (but not always), people seek that from others because they're not getting it from their spouse. Their spouse, for whatever reason, may be incapable of giving it to them. What better place to seek physical attention and companionship, than in a Lifestyle that shares it freely with others?

 

When you think about it, "cheaters" and "swingers" are a lot more alike than swingers would probably care to admit. Both are looking for "more" physical stimulation than they're getting from their marriage. Both are routinely having sex with people other than their spouses. Both are risking embarrassment and shame if discovered, and both have decided that the risk is worth the reward. Most importantly, both are intent on keeping their primary relationship intact and unscathed.

 

Probably the biggest, and arguably the only, difference between swingers and cheaters is that cheaters aren't telling their spouses about it.

Share this post


Link to post

When you think about it, "cheaters" and "swingers" are a lot more alike than swingers would probably care to admit. Both are looking for "more" physical stimulation than they're getting from their marriage. Both are routinely having sex with people other than their spouses. Both are risking embarrassment and shame if discovered, and both have decided that the risk is worth the reward. Most importantly, both are intent on keeping their primary relationship intact and unscathed.

 

Probably the biggest, and arguably the only, difference between swingers and cheaters is that cheaters aren't telling their spouses about it.

 

JnCC, I have to disagree with your comparison of cheaters and swingers, however eloquently put. I can say with authority that there is a world of difference between the attitude of those in the lifestyle and those who cheat. The difference does not lie simply in whether or not they've let their spouse in on it. Cheating, regardless of the reason, is when someone deliberately decides to take matters into their own hands and either have sex with and/or develop a relationship with someone other than their spouse - and here's the important part - without giving their spouse the dignity of choosing whether or not they want to live with their decision to do so. I know for myself, if my husband asked me to never have sex with anyone but him ever again, I would agree to that because I love him and want his happiness more than anything. If that makes him happy, so be it. But knowing that I am willing to do that for him, he gives me the gift of freedom because he knows I won't abuse it. We trust one another to not hurt the other.

 

Cheaters on the other hand are taking the easy way out. True they do it to save their marriages, to not rock the boat so to speak. But I firmly believe that the truth will eventually make itself known about a marriage. If it is only patched and propped up, it will last for a time. But eventually, because of its lack of integrity and strength, it will break. I feel they're only prolonging the inevitible by resorting to infidelity, and of course damaging the relationship - and their own emotional well-being - as well. It may not be as easy as cheating, but giving your spouse the opportunity to change his or her ways before doing something so drastic only makes sense. If after you've repeatedly informed them that your needs are not being met in some way, and offering suggestions as to how they might go about remedying the situation, they still refuse to bend, then you would consider divorce or therapy or something. But going outside of your marriage with self-serving intentions is never right. I just don't see how it could be.

Share this post


Link to post

JNCC, yes, communication is not the cure all a lot of us often tout it to be. I guess communication in addition to compromise, understanding, empathy, and a desire to please the other person is what we really mean.

 

But, cheating is not the answer to anything. If you're spouse isn't screwing you, they're screwing someone else or they have some physical/mental/emotional problem that has killed their sex drive. If it is one of those 4 things and it can't be fixed, and you can't live with that, then divorce is the answer, not cheating. Divorce is traumatic, upsetting, and depressing for all involved in the family and friends. But, let me tell you something, cheating is as bad or worse for everybody and leads to an even more traumatic, upsetting, and depressing divorce. There's a line from a Movie that the name escapes me presently but when a woman mentioned she would like to have an affair, one who had, very quickly and bluntly said "Someone always falls in love, someone always finds out, someone always gets hurt". Anybody who thinks they are "saving their marriage" by cheating is only fooling themselves. Nobody else is buying that tale.

Share this post


Link to post

I have to partially agree with both Jncc and Curious- There aren't many differences in the acts of Cheating vs. Swinging, and Cheating is no way to save a marriage. But as I see it, there are fundamental differences that no one has brought up.

 

Cheating is a selfish act, whose only reward is self-serving. Swinging is the most unselfish act I can imagine.

 

Cheating is built on lies and secrets, swinging is built on confessions, open communication and trust. What ruins a marriage is the secrets and lies that are the result of cheating. It isn't the sex. I think if you ask most people why they divorced a spouse who cheated, it will be becasue of the lack of trust, not the fact the fucked someone else.

 

Cheaters think the grass is greaner on the other side of the street, so to speak. Swingers know it isn't. Swingers don't go looking for anything more than a good time to be had by all. Again, Cheaters are looking for self indulgence- only.

 

Cheaters hide their needs from their spouses and seek satisfaction elsewhere because they are too weak to communicate their needs with their spouses. Swingers constantly communicate their needs and wants, and compromise (sometimes) with their spouses to meet those needs.

Share this post


Link to post

Northindycpl, that is something I meant to put in there, although it wouldn't have been so articulate. Cheating is selfish and it is the break of trust that is so devestating. Cheaters usually have a whole other life outside of their marriage, it isn't just the cheating. They want to have their cake and eat it too. They want the security of someone who loves them while pursueing their own personal desires separate from their spouse.

Share this post


Link to post
Both are looking for "more" physical stimulation than they're getting from their marriage.

 

JnCC

 

First of all, I think this is probably one of those well thought out posts that deserve to be taken seriously. I appreciate the time and effort that you put into writing it.

 

However, you describe the marriage of the cheater as including a "frumpy wife" and no intimacy... Then you say that cheaters and swingers are more the same than they'd like to admit.

 

I disagree.

 

My wife is not frumpy - and my marriage is anything but sexless. In fact, for us, swinging is more of an overflow for us. Give us a day off of work with no responsibilities and we would have little reason to get dressed at all.

 

And often in swinging, the sex is not at all more 'stimulating' than what I get at home... It is good, but it is different - and without fail it is not as good. Not because my wife and I are sexual experts who are simply better than anyone out there (that's a side issue :D ) rather it is because we have such a deep and honest communication that our love making happens on so many levels that a simple sexual encounter with good friends can't come close to duplicating it. The freedom I feel to swing pales in comparison to the freedom I feel when I am alone with my wife.

 

So - as I see it - swingers and cheaters are so far form each other on the spectrum of marriage that it really isn't fair - or particularly insightful - to compare the two.

 

As was stated above, I could quit swinging very easily and have an incredible sex life. A cheater, on the other hand, would have to go back to his frumpy wife and his lack of intimacy...

 

Spoomonkey

Share this post


Link to post

I knew when I lit the fuse on this and tossed it into the crowd that there would be fallout. I honestly didn't do it to insult anybody or challenge the motives behind their behaviors. There are no "wrong" answers to any of this, other than not to be as honest and open-minded as we can be when discussing it.

 

Cheating is when someone deliberately decides to take matters into their own hands and develop a relationship without giving their spouse the dignity of choosing whether or not they want to live with their decision to do so.

What then would you say to a vital, attractive woman in her early 40's whose husband has had a series of affairs, but who has refused her sexual advances for the last 3 years? Who is responsible for her affair? Her, for discretely initiating it, or him, for leaving her no alternative other than to watch her youth and femininity fade, alone every night, while he cavorts all over town? Where is the dignity in that?

 

If, after you've informed them that your needs are not being met in some way, they still refuse to bend, then you would consider divorce or therapy or something.

Divorce? With several young kids and no marketable job skills? Or "Divorce, when you own a business you built together and which neither is capable of running alone?" How about "Divorce, when the mere suggestion of marital discord woule bring an end to the husbands credibility in his chosen profession" (the reason I asked this is because I used to date the ex-wife of a Baptist Minister) Divorce isn't always an option...sometimes, the cure is worse than the disease.

 

Therapy? You can't make a person go, especially when they're not having the problem.

 

That's leaves us with the "Or something," which is essentially what we were discussing in the previous post. Sometimes it's just easier for everybody concerned to have a "Tuesday girl (or guy)" Ultimately, it can be a shallow, frustrating experience, or, it can be one that gives one enough strength to go on for another week while your kids sleep in their own beds.

 

Cheating is not the answer to anything.

True. And "aspirin" is not the answer to "migraine headaches" either. The real "answer" may be less stress and better overall health. But the aspirin is a way to deal with the pain until better health is attained. Likewise, an affair.

 

"Someone always falls in love, someone always finds out, someone always gets hurt

As any gardener or marriage therapist will tell you, "Nature abhors a vacuum" People who are in NEED fall in love with others, not people who are IN LOVE already. We fall in love with those who fulfill our NEEDS.

 

Ask yourself..."How many couples have I known in the Lifestyle, who I thought were reasonably well-bonded to their spouses, but have had problems with emotional entanglements at some point in their swinging experiences?" I can think of several, and we were only active for about 7 years.

 

My wife is not frumpy - and my marriage is anything but sexless.

Of COURSE your wife is not "frumpy"...in fact, if that's her picture on your avatar, she's a living doll! I was talkin' about them Godless, dog-kickin', soldier-hatin', little-dicked CHEATERS who have the frumpy wives, that's all.

 

I could quit swinging very easily and have an incredible sex life. A cheater, on the other hand, would have to go back to his frumpy wife and his lack of intimacy...

That is an amazing observation, and one I hadn't thought of! I can totally relate to what you're saying, since I was once a non-cheating swinger with an incredible sex-life with my wife. Before that, I was a Godless, little-dicked cheater with a frumpy wife. Touche`!

 

OK, enough with this sex stuff. It's Christmas, time to be with the ones who really count. Happy Holidays to all...See you when the grog runs low and the kids are back at their mom's...

Share this post


Link to post

one can rationalize or justify almost anything but it requires the mindset that the end justifys the means and that everybody is "OK" with the means.

 

I can't buy the asprin analogy. If you had said poison instead of asprin, I could buy that.

 

You give some good analogies and I know couples who stay together dispite one or both having affairs and their reasons for that are satisfactory to them and everybody else should be OK with it if it doesn't affect them.

 

I think what raises the hackles on swingers so quickly is when people say there is little or no distinction between swinging and cheating. Justified or not, there is a huge gulf between swinging and cheating. You might feel there is no difference, but I wouldn't try to convince the average swinger of that.

 

Look at it like this. A couple has a bank account, they both put money into it and they both spend from it. Now, they have come to a mutual agreement about how each spends from it. When, where, how much, etc. so whether anybody else agrees with how they do it or not, that couple is happy. But, lets take the same couple and the same bank account and suddenly one is not putting anything into the account and taking out everything the other one is putting in without regards as to the needs of the other person or the needs of the couple, that's just wrong. You can't compare the two situations other than to say money is being deposited and spent in both situations. All other comparisons are apples to oranges.

 

Let's say I am married and I am really turned on by seeing my wife give a BJ while I am engaging in doggie style sex with her. I help pick the guy, I OK him, I go over the rules/boundries with him. I have not allowed it, I have not only encouraged it, I am wanting this to happen. But, same me, same wife, she meets a couple of guys at a bar and goes somewhere with them and engages in MFM sex with them, not only without my permission, but against my wishes. How are those two situations the same??? They both involved MFM sex. That is the only similarity between the two. Maybe I am over explaining this. As you said. It's Christmas, see everybody later.

Share this post


Link to post
if that's her picture on your avatar, she's a living doll!

 

Well - for the record - that is here in her avatar...

 

And anyone who calls Mrs Spoo a living doll is forever on the friend list :D

 

Spoomonkey (a living something...)

Share this post


Link to post

What then would you say to a vital, attractive woman in her early 40's whose husband has had a series of affairs, but who has refused her sexual advances for the last 3 years? Who is responsible for her affair? Her, for discretely initiating it, or him, for leaving her no alternative other than to watch her youth and femininity fade, alone every night, while he cavorts all over town? Where is the dignity in that?

 

I'd say "DIVORCE"

 

Divorce? With several young kids and no marketable job skills? Or "Divorce, when you own a business you built together and which neither is capable of running alone?" How about "Divorce, when the mere suggestion of marital discord woule bring an end to the husbands credibility in his chosen profession" (the reason I asked this is because I used to date the ex-wife of a Baptist Minister) Divorce isn't always an option...sometimes, the cure is worse than the disease.

 

Personally, I would rather be dead broke than sell my soul. And kids? Which do you suppose they would appreciate more as they grow up? Designer labels and a parent who has allowed her spouse to humiliate her through repeated affairs? Or hand-me-downs and a parent they can look up to for her integrity, strength of convictions and character? Life will go on. The sun will come up the next day. No one said it would be easy or pleasant, but for myself, scarring or not, there would be little other choice. And as far as saving a cheating husband's reputation... "Ye reap what ye sow". Saving my own reputation? Who is going to fault me for respecting myself enough to ditch someone who refuses to do the same? Hey! It's in the bible!

 

Therapy? You can't make a person go, especially when they're not having the problem.

 

You're right. Maybe not a great option. I'm not a great believer in therapy anyhow; I once saw a therapist to help resolve some depression I was experiencing due to pregnancy and I found her thoroughly condescending un UNhelpful. She kept calling me by the wrong name, even! (Yeah, you're really listening...)

 

That's leaves uawith the "Or something," which is essentially what we were discussing in the previous post.

 

My fault. I shouldn't have tacked on "or something" because I really can't think of any other acceptable alternative.

 

The real "answer" may be less stress and better overall health. But the aspirin is a way to deal with the pain until better health is attained. Likewise, an affair.

 

Affairs are no road to better health. The low self-esteem, self-loathing, and generally poor attitude that accompany an affair are seriously BAD for your mental, emotional, and physical health. It's like drinking yourself into a drunken stupor to escape reality.

 

As any gardener or marriage therapist will tell you, "Nature abhors a vacuum" People who are in NEED fall in love with others, not people who are IN LOVE already. We fall in love with those who fulfill our NEEDS.

 

Affairs bring on obsessive infatuation, not love. True, affairs start because a need is not being met, and it's rarely sexual need. But the 'other man/woman' is not loved so much for themselves, but for the void that they fill. The adulterer/adulteress is so starved for this particular kind of attention, they will do anything to keep it. And they'll keep on cheating unless they're given a reason not to. It's an addiction. My question is, do they know for certain that their spouse is truly incapable or unwilling to be more intimate with them in this respect? It is possible, however unlikely it may seem.

 

You're all right, we shouldn't be arguing about this crap on Christmas. But I've typed it all up now and I'll be damned if I'm not gonna post it.

Merry Christmas all!

Share this post


Link to post

CuriousAgain wrote:

 

"...lets take the same couple and the same bank account and suddenly one is not putting anything into the account and taking out everything the other one is putting in without regards as to the needs of the other person or the needs of the couple..."

 

Have you met my brother's ex, Curious Again?

 

If a man's wife (or a woman's husband) doesn't want to have sex with him, (or her) there is probably a reason. No sexual problem between lovers has ever been solved by cheating.

 

Generally speaking, Swingers can talk with their spouses and solve problems. Generally speaking, cheaters can't. That is the major difference. If a person can't communicate well enough with his/her spouse to deal with the question of swinging, that is no fault of the swinging community.

 

I may feel sorry for a person who can't seem to make his marriage work, but it is not my place to solve problems for him, and that includes providing a cheater with sex.

 

A person who maintains that there is little difference between swinging and cheating really doesn't understand what is required of a relationship to make swinging (and probably marriage) work.

 

If you want to cheat, go to the taverns where there is a plethora of people crying in their beer about failed marriages. You can probably even find sex to inadequately fill the void in your life. (My brother's ex will probably be there.) You'll have a very good chance of solving the marital problems by ending the marriage.

 

If you want to swing, talk deeply with your spouse, and only after his/her agreement, set your personal rules. You'll be fully welcomed into the lifestyle. But don't come alone...

 

Mr. Alura

Share this post


Link to post

"A person who maintains that there is little difference between swinging and cheating really doesn't understand what is required of a relationship to make swinging (and probably marriage) work." Mr. Alura

 

 

No truer words ever spoken, IMHO! I have watched several people close to me cheat throughout the years... and the thing I always hear in my mind is they have no idea how to make a marriage work.

 

It is very difficult to indentify, resolve and articulate a persons most intimate needs to another person. It is easier to sum up that 'you need sex' and it is even easier to go get it, thinking it will fullfill you enough to stay in a bad marriage. You always get what you put into something. If you put lies and deceit into your marriage, you will get it out again.

 

Maintaining my marraige is the hardest, most challenging thing I have ever done in my life. It is a 24-7 responsibility. I even think is is harder than child-raising.

 

My girlfriend has been having an affair with a married man for the past 10 years, and she is married to the most wonderful, loyal man. I look at her often as she discusses her marriage, and wholehartedly believe that if she put 1/4 of the effort into her marriage that she does with her lover, she would again be happily married.

 

But in this age of instant gratification selfishness... It is just so easy to throw in the towel and get something on the side. We all think we are entitled to something, and like curious said, we can justify it in our minds. Right, wrong or indifferent.

 

It is sad really. Really, sad.

Share this post


Link to post

Northindycpl wrote:

 

It is sad really. Really, sad.

 

How true, Domestic Goddess! The cheater is probably lying to the lover as much as the spouse. Both relationships are doomed.

 

Mr. Alura

Share this post


Link to post

Generally speaking, Swingers can talk with their spouses and solve problems. Generally speaking, cheaters can't

I really wanted to respond with a hearty "Right you ARE, sir!" to that statement, but something inside told me to think again. So on a hunch, I went back to "our" old phone book...the one in which we kept the names of what we called our "special friends"...and wrote down the names of the people in it, and what their status is today, or was, the last time we spoke with them. My perspective on this isn't on the short term benefits of swinging, but on how and when we cross the line between swinging and cheating

 

(A little biographical information is probably called for here. My ex- and I became involved in the Lifestyle around 1995, and were active, off and on, until a few months before we separated for non-lifestyle related issues in 2002. Our "special friends" were mostly from our own socio-economic class. I.E., professional, married couples in their mid-40s, together for 10 years or more, with children. We were pretty selective, and avoided couples who had obvious "issues" or who seemed unstable as a couple at the time of our initial meeting.)

 

There were 28 names in the book. We were NOT "intimate" with every couple on the list, but it would be fair to say we'd been naked, in an intimate setting, with most of them. These were not casual "club contacts," these were all people we socialized with to some extent as well. In other words, people we knew well enough to know a little bit about personally.

 

Of the 28, 8 were divorced prior to the Fall of 2002. In 7 of those divorces, cheating by one or both spouses preceded the breakup. About half involved somebody they had met through the Lifestyle, the rest through work or social activities (PTA, etc). In one case, it was with a male client. Of the 8th couple, I'm not sure what happened, although I heard it was pressure at work that made him a tyrant at home. Too bad...they seemed like such nice folks.

 

Of the 20 that were still married at the time of our last contact, 7 had cheated, or attempted to cheat, on their spouses. Most involved liasons (or attempted liasons) with people they had met through the Lifestyle. I'm not talking about couples in "open marriages" or a "one-time slip-up" here...I'm talking about situations in which one (or sometimes both) has either had an ongoing affair (with emotional involvement), or had made it clearly known to another that they were interested in having one. There were undoubtedly others that should have been on the list, but since I have no direct, personal knowledge of them, I didn't include them. As you have seen here, it's not something that folks in the Lifestyle like to talk about very much.

 

Two of the 20 couples still together nevertheless went through voluntary separations lasting from 3 to 6 months in duration. In one case, the male seriously considered an affair with a young, eager subordinate in his office while his wife decided whether she wanted to be married to a man or a woman. I don't know if he ever followed through on it...and he probably wouldn't tell me if he did (our respective wives were "best girlfriends" also). Happily, both of those couples are now back together...for now....although he has said that "the next time will be the last time for him". If that happens, it will end their 22 year marriage...

 

That leaves 12 happily swinging couples who are still together, without any of the apparent "drama" listed above. None are in so-called "open marriages" although 3 of them admit to adding an occasional "third" to their play. At least 3 have also said that were it not for the Lifestyle, they doubt they would have remained faithful to their spouses. (I have my doubts about several of the others as well) The "Newlyweds" of the group have been married for about 15 years, the "elder statesmen" in excess of 30. While I respect them for being able to stick it out, I don't think any of them would claim it was because they were "better people" or "better communicators." If anything, most would claim more than their fair share of luck in finding the right person to begin with.

 

Luck. As I look back at the original 28 couples, it would be hard to identify any common personality traits or facets of character that would have predicted marital success or failure for them. In fact, among the 12 "successes" were some second marriages, which are notoriously fraught with problems. That would seem to rule out the notion that "marriages fail only because the people getting married are losers."

 

It also rules out the notion that "swingers" and "cheaters" are polar opposites. Swingers cheat, and in significant numbers. Cheaters, in effect, are "swingers," the difference being that their participation in recreational sex occurs one partner at a time and without their spouses knowledge. While I would never suggest that they're one-and-the-same, they are cousins...and NOT distant cousins, either.

 

Ya know...there's a Master's Thesis in there somewhere...

Share this post


Link to post

This is going to be a long post, please bear with me and my apologies. I am going to say some very controversial things, so some ground information to begin with, so save the flames! My wife and I have been married 28 years, mostly good. We have been through many things that MOST marriages would not survive. Just a few things include: The near loss of our son 2 times in his first five years, (less than 5% chance of survival, then a vegitable or worse.) (not the case anyway); the medical bills from that,(well over $100,000) a bankruptcy, all of the humdrum daily problems from 2 working adults with vastly different work schedules, with no chance of sex or intimantcy, or even seeing each other for days at a time, but sharing the same house/bed, and lately, her near total loss of interest in sex. (But since talking on this site, some has returned.) And there is much more! Note that we are not poster parents, and definately not the "polite society" ideal of a good marriage! BUT......we are and always have been happily married. While we may fight and fuss, we love each other and are comitted to each other. We have done what many others would not have survived, and stay happy with each other. So what does all of this have to do with the other posts you say?? Well, we are on this site for one example. We have discussed swinging for some time now, but we/she are not quite ready to take the next step. (See my other post on "guilt") Everything is OK in theory, but she is not ready to put it into practice. And I am not going to push! So where is the cheating you say. Well, when we talk, she is not ready, but says I can "go ahead" if I wish, she has no problem with that. This is in open discussion, and I am not here behind her back. BUT NEARLY EVERYONE would call this cheating it seems. I have no plans to participate without her, even if it means never getting started. I respect her. BUT why would this be cheating, everything is out in the open ? Please, this is a serious question. She does not wish to particiapte, she says I can, with her blessing, but she does not want to talk to others about it, at least not at this time. Cheating is when someone is being decieved. We are discussing this in the open.

Just another opinion to toss in the fray. I just hope it brings honest thought into this thread. And yes, I AM a bomb tosser, at least in the verbal sense (lol) tryit2?

Share this post


Link to post
Well, when we talk, she is not ready, but says I can "go ahead" if I wish, she has no problem with that. This is in open discussion, and I am not here behind her back. BUT NEARLY EVERYONE would call this cheating it seems.

 

Well - I am not sure that I would call that cheating, but I would, honestly, not be interested in playing. The reasons I have posted elsewhere, but a short summary is pretty simple...

 

Though your wife says that it is okay, it is difficult for us to verify this. We wouldn't be comfortable playing based on your word, because a person who would cheat on his wife would undoubtedly lie to us, if it benefited him. If we were able to verify it - ie. speak to the wife - that is just one more dinner out that we'd have to pay for...

 

In short - it is more of a pain in the ass than it is worth when there are "for real" singles out there.

 

You and your wife can have whatever arrangement works for you guys. I think it is great that you can discuss this and come to such an agreeable solution - but the extra burden on us - the extra baggage involved - just isn't worth it for us...

 

And I'd suspect others may ditto this...

 

But - it is possible to play - so good luck!

 

Spoomonkey

Share this post


Link to post

I don't think it is impossible for swingers to cheat. I don't think swinging can save marriage. If anything JNCC, your homework proves that swinging is something couples do. It is an activity. It is a lifestyle. It is not a cure all for anything.

 

I think at this point I am just going to have to agree to disagree on some things with you. I don't care if you are part of a swinging or non swinging couple. Cheating is cheating. Sex is sex. To me, If I purchase a license and follow the federal, state, and local laws, and the spirit of fair chase, I am a hunter. If I don't buy a license, hunt out of season or in no hunting areas, or from a vehicle, I am a poacher. Both activities are basically the same (searching for deer with the intent to kill them) but the way you go about it is what makes the difference.

 

swinging and cheating both involve having sex with someone other than your spouse. It is the way you go about it that makes the difference.

 

That's all I have to say about that.

Share this post


Link to post

We don't think playing with permission is cheating although we would echo Spoomonkey's words.

 

We have a few times in our marriage given each other permission to have sex with another person outside our usual couple-to-couple intermarital sex. We don't think it was cheating since it was done with knowledge and more than a little plotting and planning by the two of us.

 

Alura

Share this post


Link to post
To me, If I purchase a license and follow the federal, state, and local laws, and the spirit of fair chase, I am a hunter. If I don't buy a license, hunt out of season or in no hunting areas, or from a vehicle, I am a poacher. Both activities are basically the same (searching for deer with the intent to kill them) but the way you go about it is what makes the difference.

 

swinging and cheating both involve having sex with someone other than your spouse. It is the way you go about it that makes the difference.

 

That's all I have to say about that.

 

 

Excellent analogy curiousagain! I often get frustrated at the hangup about the difference between swinging and cheating, as though they're somehow related. The ONLY relation they have to one another is the fact that sex does occur with someone other than your spouse. The reasons for choosing to do that are often deemed irrelevent and the mere action suffices to prove the connection. I don't buy that. Swingers tend to really really enjoy sex, but they're certainly less obsessed about it (IMO) than most 'vanilla' couples! We've gotten past the idea that sex is some kind of big deal; it can be as wonderful and intimate as making love to your soul mate or about as important to our social needs as playing a game of cards with some good friends. For us, sex hasn't been diminished in it's importance to our relationship, but it's certainly been put in it's place. It no longer controls us; we control it. We've harnessed it and do precisely what we want with it. Here's an exercise in sarcasm: Stumbling blindly along with stars in our eyes, ever striving for the ultimate sexual experience, the nirvana of our existence, the mother of all orgasms... why it MUST only be found within a completely monogamous relationship where each lover is so dazzled by the other's beauty, wit and charm that they are blind to any other rival. All other lovers disappear from view and they will be the only two lovers in the whole world. And what is this wondrous thing that binds them together? Why sex! Glorious sex! Ah, yes the only true, strong bond in the universe. Nothing can come between them now... until of course the dazzle fades after about two years and the retina burn begins to heal. Slowly unwanted visions of other potential sex partners comes into focus. What do they do then? If all they've based their marriage on is the ability to rock each other's world then they're in for a disappointment. Sex is great, it's very important, but hey! it's not everything.

 

I don't know how I got onto this; this thread was supposed to be about cheating. I guess the bottom line is, yes the reason DOES matter.

Share this post


Link to post

Ok, my sheltered life is comming to the surface...you really put an onion ring hot enough to leave a mark around a man's cock?????

 

Of course I still shudder when I think of a brizilian bikini wax. ::P:

Share this post


Link to post
To me, If I purchase a license and follow the federal, state, and local laws, and the spirit of fair chase, I am a hunter. If I don't buy a license, hunt out of season or in no hunting areas, or from a vehicle, I am a poacher. Both activities are basically the same (searching for deer with the intent to kill them) but the way you go about it is what makes the difference

I think you finally hit on the solution to all this!

 

The government ought to start issuing licenses to swingers!

 

Now before you say "THAT'S PREPOSTEROUS!" hear me out. A couple could go down to Dick's or Big 5 with their marriage license (to prove they really ARE a committed couple) and sign a consent form that each allows the other to have sex outside the marriage. Each would have to show 2 forms of ID (one with a recent photo) prior to signing, then check a box specifying exactly what kind of sex they were giving the other permission to have..."singles/couples only...veto power/carte blanche...kissing/no kissing...anal/anal play only/no anal...cuming in mouth/no cuming in mouth" etc.

 

Obviously, an "unrestricted" license would cost more...

 

Like the "extended season" for bowhunters, ugly people, single bi-females, and couples who were looking for single males would be permitted to swing 7 days a week. Attractive couples would be pretty much restricted to Saturday nights after 11 P.M., but they usually hit their limit pretty early in the season anyway.

 

In order to "thin the herd," females would be prohibited from reaching orgasm with the same male more than twice in one night. Males with dicks less than 4 inches long would have to be released back into the hot tub.

 

Veteran swingers could be deputized as "Sex Wardens" to patrol clubs and parties, checking for violators. Their authority would be absolute. Anybody caught having sex that didn't conform to the "rules" set up by the "Swingers Commission," would be branded a "cheater" and forfeit all sex toys, costume jewelry, fake Rolex's, etc. that were found in their possession. In addition, their license to swing could be suspended...in some cases, for life.

 

I know it sounds crazy, but it would make swinging so much easier, and safer, as well. You'd never have to ask yourself "Is this person really here just for a mindless, emotionless hump, or are they fantasizing that I could be their next husband/wife?" You'd never have to worry about emotional involvement, or "going too far" with somebody...all you'd have to do is ask to see their license before getting in bed with them. Whatever is on their license is OK, anything that isn't, isn't.

 

As long as you remember that it's NOT OK to gut what you bring down, I just don't see a problem with this.

Share this post


Link to post
I

 

In order to "thin the herd," females would be prohibited from reaching orgasm with the same male more than twice in one night. Males with dicks less than 4 inches long would have to be released back into the hot tub.

.

 

 

Sorry JnCC .....there is no way I can agree to having someone limit my orgasms!!! That's just cruel and unusual punishment! I can have more than one or two orgasms with one guy during one session of sex. I think you are going to have to put me on the committe making these rules before we issue any licences .... :kissface:

Share this post


Link to post

Swingers who have divorced through cheating.... From JNCC's Post.

 

I looked through my address book that contains all of the names and numbers of our vanilla friends. I picked the first 10 on the page. Out of the first 10:

 

1 has been having an affair with a married man (while she has been married for the last 15 years too) for the past 12 years.

 

1 is on his 3rd marriage after having the others ended after his numerous affairs.

 

1 is closing in on his 2nd marriage after leaving his first wife for his mistress... the reason they haven't yet married is they are trying to 'work through some trust issues' head bang

 

1 is on their 2 marraige after both prior marriages ended with affairs.

 

1 marriage is completely sexless, and as soon as her husband finally kicks the bucket she will finally fuck her pool boy- after years of playing with him.

 

1 is still together, but only after reaching the compromise of allowing the male spouse to continue to screw a woman who was originally brought in to have a 3 some, until the husband began to have feelings for the extra woman, and wanted to leave the current wife. Talk about being held together with duct tape and bungee cords! :confused:

 

The rest of the list is still married for between 1 and 10 years. So of our vanilla friends examined for this post.... 60% of them have been involved with cheating to some degree or the other.

 

The point to this is that cheaters exist in every walk of life, in every social circle and in every group. Now, swingers, being more sexually free and adventuresome, may in fact, have a higher propensity for cheating in JnCC's post, because the have a higher propensity for open sex. And sex can go astray, sometimes.

 

I think it is just a fact of life that some people cheat... either openly or behind the scenes, vanilla or not, rich or poor... whatever.

 

My original question is still... Why do they seek out swingers to do it?

 

Is it becasue we are so sexually free that we lack common sense to play with cheaters?

 

I heard a friend say the other day....'I may swing, but I still have morals!' I thought that was an odd statement to make. My feeling is that I swing because I have morals. I have values and personal promises that I live by. Things like honoring the vows we took when we were married, not commiting murder or theft, being honest with my spouse, etc...

 

Cheating was definately a no-no. It is and it always will be. And it is not about the sex, it is about the lies and secrets that come with it.

Share this post


Link to post
My original question is still... Why do they seek out swingers to do it?

 

Is it becasue we are so sexually free that we lack common sense to play with cheaters?

I think cheaters are drawn to swingers because they assume we are more sexually open people. We like sex, that is why we swing.

 

I think perhaps, they believe it'll be easier to reach their ultimate goal (sex) with swingers. I'm sure they believe there isn't any corting involved. No gifts to buy a mistress, no mistress to have to take out anywhere in the general public and no risk of a mistress becoming obsessed with them and fucking up their marriage. No relationship needed for sex. A sure thing, if you will.

 

Just my 2 cents....

Share this post


Link to post
I think cheaters are drawn to swingers because they assume we are more sexually open people. We like sex, that is why we swing.

 

I think perhaps, they believe it'll be easier to reach their ultimate goal (sex) with swingers. I'm sure they believe there isn't any corting involved. No gifts to buy a mistress, no mistress to have to take out anywhere in the general public and no risk of a mistress becoming obsessed with them and fucking up their marriage. No relationship needed for sex. A sure thing, if you will.

 

Just my 2 cents....

I think you are absolutely right about that. I think that's why some of 'em get so upset when they come here and we turn 'em down. It must be quite frustrating to find out that 'sure thing' is sure not gonna play with them. :lol:

 

-B

Share this post


Link to post
I think it is just a fact of life that some people cheat... either openly or behind the scenes, vanilla or not, rich or poor... whatever.
That was my original point...that cheaters exist in all wallks of life. When somebody stands up and proclaims "I'll have you know that I'm a SWINGER, not a CHEATER!" I interpret it as a reflection of the status of their present relationship, rather than "proof" that they hold some immunity from the temptation to cheat. Relationships change over time...hopefully for the better, but sometimes for the worse. When your relationship is going like gangbusters, it's easy to say "I don't cheat, and I have no respect for anybody that does!"

 

If you still feel that way after your spouse has spent years withholding intimacy or commnication, or has breached your trust, THEN you've earned the right to say "I'm not a cheater." Otherwise, count your blessings, and pray that your relationship only gets better through the years. Not all DO...

 

As I said in a private message recently (and I hope the person to whom it was written won't mind my repeating it here)...

 

"I think we all become convinced "our" position is reasonable, and everybody else's is "wrong." Then one day we wake up and our situation has changed, and we now find that what was once "wrong," is now "right"..at least for us, given our "new" circumstances."

 

As my mother used to say..."It all depends on whose ox is being gored"

 

My original question is still... Why do they seek out swingers to do it?

Oh yea, the "original question." They do it because when a guy is horny, he's looking EVERYWHERE for sex, not just here.

 

Don't take it personally. They mean no harm.

Share this post


Link to post
When somebody stands up and proclaims "I'll have you know that I'm a SWINGER, not a CHEATER!" I interpret it as a reflection of the status of their present relationship, rather than "proof" that they hold some immunity from the temptation to cheat.

 

I don't think anyone holds the key to "guaranteed fidelity". Let's just make it a given that anyone - regardless of hobby choice, has the potential to cheat. And some very well may...

 

The problem is, I think, that people see more comparison between swingers and cheaters than they do between, say, model train enthusiasts and cheaters. The only comparison is sex... But, the bottom line is, that is where the comparison stops.

 

I think CuriousAgain's hunter/poacher analogy was right on the money.

 

I think we can all agree that anyone can cheat. No one is immune. And - yes - chosing to swing is also accepting the responsibility of more risk. BUT - no matter how much we agree on that point cheating still does not = swinging.

 

That was Indy's original point.

 

I may wake up tomorrow and my world may be turned upside down. But even if it is, swinging will still be a thing that couples do together - and/or with an open agreement. Cheating will still involve deception. And they will still be two very different things.

 

Spoomonkey

Share this post


Link to post

A very interesting thread!

I tend to agree with JnCC .

 

With respect to the hunter/poacher analogy.

I view it in the same light but with this in mind ...consider if you will that it is far easier for a legally licenced hunter to become a suscessful poacher than someone who knows nothing of hunting .

Much easier than a person who has never hunted before.

All the hunter need do is cross a few invisible moral boundries and Voila he's a poacher.

I would venture to guess the same can be said for swingers, ie they have already proven to themselves that they can have recreational sex with someone other than their spouse , they can enjoy it , and the sky won't fall.

 

The step into "cheating" could be a smaller one perhaps for a swinger ?

Although it still involves decite . it's not as if marrital sex is exclusive any more and perhaps other rationalizations come into play but I can definitely see where once boundries have been crossed it becomes easier to justify cheating as a swinger.

 

And it only takes a small moral justification

( Oh I'll tell him/her about it when I get home ..or it's just this once , or I know he/she'll be OK with it , it's just sex etc.)

to have a tryst with an attractive partner without your S/O knowledge or consent especially if there is significant time away from each other.

And of course then it's NOT swinging and swinging does not = cheating ; but one can make the other easier to do , in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
The step into "cheating" could be a smaller one perhaps for a swinger ?

 

Well - if you're pointing out that I can get laid, then, yes, you are correct...

 

But - that doesn't really change the issue at all. Where did this get so off track? Did I miss something?

 

I doubt the step into cheating would be shorter. I would argue that it would be longer. Consider this - if I see someone with whom I'd like to have sex, I can go to my wife and tell her. She may agree with me that this is a worthy pursuit. "Bring her home and let's have her buffet style," she may say with a wink.

 

I am denied very little.

 

But, I also know that because I swing I will potentially do MORE damage by cheating. She is showing so much more trust in me than she would have to in a "traditional" marriage. Don't I cause more damage by cheating, since she is showing more trust by letting have sex with others?

 

And - having been a part of this board and lifestyle for a while, I am aware that women like my wife are a rare find indeed. Why would I want to risk that by having sex with someone without her knowledge - when I can have all the sex I want with her knowledge...

 

It doesn't make sense...

 

Spoomonkey

Share this post


Link to post

Okay Mr Spoo and I were just discussing the hunter/poacher analogy and DrNed's reasoning that it is easier or a shorter step for a hunter (aka swinger) to become a poacher (aka cheater). Makes no sense to me.

 

Consider this:

 

Mr.Spoo's brother is a deer hunter . . actual to the elite side of hunting he is a bow hunter. We decided to get married on opening day of deer hunting season and asked him to be the best man. After much begging for us to change the date, since he had been tracking a particular deer all year and was planning to get him on opening day, he agreed to be in our wedding. :) He is my favorite brother-in-law now :D

 

Anyway my point is . . he could have killed the deer a day or two prior to opening day, good grief he lives in the woods with the darn deer it probably came to his back porch every day :rollseyes but he didn't! And the next week when he got back home (we got married out of state) he went out and killed the deer. Why did he wait? Simple he IS a hunter not a poacher and it wasn't hunting season before he left for the wedding so he waited.

 

My point . . . a swinger is a swinger, why cheat when he/she can let their spouse know they have someone in mind they'd like to have sex with and set it up for the next time!! Why would you want to ruin a good thing or better yet lower your standards to become something criminal (a poacher) and loose the great hunting spot you have and the privilage and freedom that comes with the license.

 

Mrs Spoomonkey

Share this post


Link to post
I know that because I swing I will potentially do MORE damage by cheating. She is showing so much more trust in me than she would have to in a "traditional" marriage. Don't I cause more damage by cheating, since she is showing more trust by letting have sex with others?

That's an excellent point...and the reason that, unlike my past relationships, cheating was never a part of our marriage OR a factor in our breakup. But make no mistake about it, after 9 years together, probably the biggest reason I didn't cheat was BECAUSE we swung. As you've alluded to, I too felt very fortunate to have a woman who was as enthusiastic about it as I was...and that alone was a powerful motivator to remain true to our promise to each other. But many of the factors that drove me to swinging were the same ones that would have driven me to infidelity had we not been in the Lifestyle It is for that reason alone that I don't hold myself as being much different from most cheaters.

 

I am aware that women like my wife are a rare find indeed. Why would I want to risk that by having sex with someone without her knowledge - when I can have all the sex I want with her knowledge

True! But what if you were married to the "other kind?" What if your wife suddenly lost all interest in sex, or in intimacy, or in fixing what was wrong with your marriage? What if she lost all interest in YOU?

 

You'd be looking for it somewhere else, I'll bet. You'd still be the same person...with the same need for passion, intimacy, and sense of "connection" you have now. Your interests, likes and dislikes, values, and love for family would be the same. But sooner or later, you'd be hoping for somebody to fill the void that your wife's witholding of affection had created in your life. And when you found that person...you'd become a cheater.

 

Most of the people in here (myself included) understand the distinction between "cheating" and "swinging," but I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only person who sees the similarities as well. Maybe that comes from seeing it from the perspective of a single man for the last couple years?

 

Now, can somebody explain the difference to me between "Ford" and "Mercury?" I know they're not the same, but unless I'm close enough to see the nameplate, I have a hard time telling them apart.

Share this post


Link to post

Most people who do not swing aren't even sure of all the complexities. All people hear is that we swap partners durring sex, and it turns dirty, along with the taboo of sharing your mate. Its too 'naughty' for a lot of people. Sex is more than (please excuse the crudeness) nailing as many people as you can get your hands on. At least it is for me. Its almost spiritual if done correctly, and I feel cheating is like cursing in front of the Pope so to speak. WAY not cool. :nono:

Share this post


Link to post
But make no mistake about it, after 9 years together, probably the biggest reason I didn't cheat was BECAUSE we swung. As you've alluded to, I too felt very fortunate to have a woman who was as enthusiastic about it as I was...and that alone was a powerful motivator to remain true to our promise to each other. But many of the factors that drove me to swinging were the same ones that would have driven me to infidelity had we not been in the Lifestyle It is for that reason alone that I don't hold myself as being much different from most cheaters.

 

This is getting me more curious than ever! :lol:

 

I want to know what the factors were, that would be the same for cheating vis-a-vis swinging, so to speak.

 

I am intrigued by why people swing. I guess I made the assumption that other couples swing to share something as a couple. Like in our case, we swing to enhance our marriage. I wouldn't say that swinging saved our marriage, but I would say that over the past few months it has greatly enhanced our lives for the better, and after 12 years it was something that had been greatly needed. We were more drawn into the lifestyle so that we could build our marriage. Not becasue we were lacking something.

 

Now, Until I read the JnCC post, I never thought that others would be drawn to the lifestyle for the reasons that they may drawn to cheating.

 

What were your reasons JnCC, if you don't mind telling. :rolleyes:

 

And out of curiosity, did you swap in different rooms, or did you play together always?

 

The reason I asked that question is that there is a couple that I know that never plays in the same room. Once they arrive at the club they go their separate ways, and rarely speak to each other until they are getting dressed to leave. Now, I do not know what conversations or actions are between them outside of the club, but I do think it is different that they are not into each other at the club at all. (To each his own) As I have read this post, I have thought about them. Are they really closer to cheating (swingers) because they are clearly there for sex with others, without sharing with their spouses? Are they only for the physical? I guess I am making a lot of assumptions.

 

My best friend now has been cheating on her husband for 12 years and is more tied to the emotional aspect of her affair. It has absolutely nothing to do with the sex for her- becasue there is honestly very little sex to be had in her affair. But she talks to this man, has lunch with this man- and loves this man. Is she drawn to cheat only for the emotional? If that is the case, would swinging 'do' anything for her marriage at all? I wouldn't say that swinging, atleast for us, has any emotional connection with anyone outside of us. Sure we have friends, but for us... its just the sex. Finished. And to be even more honest, it is the sex between us that is so hot, drawing us back time and again.

 

And maybe the DR is right.... swinging is a gateway activity to cheating in the wrong people. Just like they say pot is to heroine. Surrender

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...