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incommunicado

Is it just me, or is my wife out of control?

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First I ask, in the interest of time, try to make do with the details given, as I could write a book describing every last circumstance, and this is huge anyway. Second, I will admit I am just looking to blow off some steam, so, though I appreciate advice or suggestions, please don't try to analyze every detail. Thanks!

 

A few years ago, my wife and I indulged in our first swinging relationships with some friends, and had a great time. We probably picked a bad time to start this, because we were going through a lot of stress over unemployment (mine) and lack of money. At one point, I even suggested that she leave, to save herself from financial ruin. This lack of coming together in a time of crisis was bad for us and she started having two affairs, which lasted a brief time. One I found out about and another I learned about recently, that she doesn't know I know about. Now, I reallize that relationship and money problems prompt people to do some pretty stupid things. So, we stopped swinging (easy, because our friends started seeing other people) and went to some therapy (what we could afford). She said that she had thought I had given up on us, so she turned to another, in desparation, but reallized I was still there for us, and that she wanted our marriage to work so she ended it. Seemed simple enough. Wish it were.

 

About six months later, I discovered that she had e-mailed two nude photos I had taken of her, to a male friend from school. She said it was a joke, in retaliation for him flashing her in the parking lot at school (another inappropriate action I might add) and that it meant nothing and they are just friends. I suggested to her that this behavior was not becoming of two married people and that she was also showing tremendous indiscretion by doing this with a classmate. By the way, I also moved out for a week. When we finally sat down to talk, she admitted that her behavior was over the top, and she didn't want to lose me, and I admitted how much I still wasn't over the affair (the one I knew of) that she had. Partially, because she had never admitted to having sex with the guy. So, finally she admitted to at least that. But, wait, there's more...

 

With the seeds of distrust firmly planted, I began spying on her. I learned that she had been sharing sexually explicit fantasy e-mails with certain friends from school and work. They were written so as to seem like they had actually happened. So, I confronted her and she said that it was just her way of garnering fantasy material, like I read stories from this site. I told her that it was not the same because there isn't a known person to meet up with in a moment of weakness, associated with the stories I read here. I asked her to stop ALL contact with the people she had been writing to, but she just changed her password and continued for another day or so. I told her, it was hurting me that she was devoting so much sexual energy elsewere (40+ e-mails), and if she didn's stop, it would cost her her marriage. So, she seemed to stop. But wait, still more...

 

She had created a user profile on yahoo messenger, originally (so she said) to

flirt with me (redirect her energy towards us). But, people have been just finding her out of the blue and IMing her. So, I created another profile, so she wouldn't know it was me, and contacted her. In minutes we were on the topinc of sex, within a short period of time, I had her supposedly touching herself under her desk and within about an hour, I had her sending me a discreet nude photo in exchange for one of me. She kept saying "I should behave, this got me into trouble before," but then would just go right ahead. It took nothing for me to push the right buttons with her to get her to open up. I got her to talk dirty, to tell me about her sexual exploits outside her marriage, including another affair that I didn't know about that happened with a married friend of ours, at the same time as the first. On one occasion, that same man had actually fingered her in a bar when I went to the bathroom. She also told me that one of the people she was e-mailing, had grabbed her and kissed her at one point, and she had responded. This has gone on for days, with her saying she won't tell me who she is, or agree to meet me, for fear of hurting her marriage, but she keeps trying to figure out where I live.

 

She has said to my online character, that she loves her husband, that her 13 years with him means a lot to her, that her sex life at home is great and frequent, and that she doesn't want to risk losing everything. But, she also says she hopes I will eventually want to start swinging again, and that it is hard for her to be completely sexually faithful.

 

Bottom line, whether she's screwing other guys, like she was two years ago, when we were having major money problems, or allowing herself to be kissed or touch sexually, or "flirting" with friends or even strangers who IM her or e-mail her, I think she needs to get some "strange" elsewhere to be fully satisfied. I really feel like I have three choices: 1) Leave, or 2) Go back to swinging and do it aggressively, because she is going to try to satisfy her desires for illicit sex somehow, so it might as well be out in the open. 3) Just accept that she loves me but can't be truly faithful and leave her to her own private live, whatever form it may take.

 

I know there are people on this site who have been surveyed, who said that if they had to stop swinging they would leave their marriages. Or, that swinging was the answer to them constantly cheating on each other. Now, I enjoyed swinging. I liked having sex with another woman and I enjoyed watching her have sex with another man. I didn't want to stop swinging. But I still felt the pain of being cheated on and I didn't want to reward bad behavior.

 

So... what makes a women who claims to love her husband and value their marriage and their future, crave wild sex with others so greatly that she HAS to taste contact with other somehow (live dirty stories, whatever)? Is not swinging the right thing because to do so is rewarding bad behavior? Or, should I accept that she can't be truly faithful and make that part of our relationship?

 

Let me mention, that before we were married, she had never been in a completely closed relationship, and had a lot of fun, and open sex in college. When we were married, she committed to me, but she has no problem with me having whatever sex I want, wherever I want it, and just wishes ( I think) that I felt the same, though she understands why I don't.

 

I love my wife, and I know she loves me. I enjoyed us having sex with others. Why should it be so hard to just open things up and eliminate the problem that way? Part of me has no problem with it. The other part of me would like to see a little sexual devotion/fidelity from her in exchange. To know that, if we walked away from swinging forever, it would be enough that it's just the two of us. I'm kind of tired of the stolen kisses (and aparantly more) that she has indulged. And the lip service paid to how hurt I am and how tired I am of not trusting her while she keeps doing things that make her worthy of my distrust (like secret emails/IMs). But, I think if I want to keep her, I will have to let her do what she wants.

 

Lastly... I know, I know, "therapy, therapy, therapy,". Been there, done that, can't afford any more. Plus, love and devotion are not in question. I trust in my heart of hearts that her heart and soul belong to me. But, her pussy (mentally and sometimes physically) seems to belong to whomever pushes the right buttons. That's what I have to figure out how to live with/without. After 13 years, it's hard to make that decision. Fortunately, we have no kids.

 

 

Thanks for listenting. Sorry for the book.

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Well I have only been married for 4 years, so I don't have a lot of experience on this topic. My opininon my not be the one that everyones else has. But I am gonna tell you anyways.

 

I am sure you have read here many times, swinging is not the answer to fixing a marriage. If my hubby was doing the same thing your wife was doing I don't know what I would do. I know what I wouldn't do, that is swing! I would demand that he be faithul to me. It woldn't matter to me that he wasn't actually having sex. Having someone touch you & kiss you is cheating. I even think that talking to people on the interent in the manner you said you wife is, is cheating. ANYTHING that your spouse does behind your back is cheating to me.

 

I feel that if my spouse loved me then they wouldn't need any "starnge", whatever it may be. No cyber sex, no stolen kisses, none of it. I would basically tell my spouse this is the way it needs to be, if you don't like it then you need to leave. You don't deserve that kind of treatment. You deserve to be loved the way tht you love someone. I know it sounds rude or hars, but if she can't give that to you, then she must not love you the way she says she does. You should be enough for her. I know that no matter what, if I ever told my hubby that I didn't want to do this anymore, he would walk away & never look back.

 

Swinging isn't about getting laid as much as you possibly can. It might be to some people, but I think the majority would agree that it isn't. Swinging is about something a couple does together, wether it be in the same room or not. But they do it together & share the experience in one way or another. Swinging is about taking already great realtionaships & making them better. It is about making that bond & that trust even stronder. I think for people that don't understand this, don't belong in the lifestyle.

 

I would do anything in the would to work it out with my huby. But there is only so much that one person can take. All you can do is try your hardest, tell your spouse what you feel & that the things she is doing are hurting you. If she loves you, then she should have no problem stopping. If she has some sort of addiction there are real places to go & get help. If she loves you she should be willing to do whatever it takes to make you happy & your marriage work.

 

My 2 cents for the day!

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WOW! I had been wondering what had transpired since last we heard from you. It seems that you have done a reasonably thorough job here of bringing us up to date, and giving a synopsis of your situation for those who have not read your prior posts.

 

You requested that we not get bogged down in analysis of the details, so I won't. I think you will handle things in a manner you are most comfortable with, so I don't feel compelled to mince words.

 

For me, the biggest issue here, regardless the cause or justifiability of your feelings, is the lack of trust. A relationship becomes seriously compromised when trust has been breached.

 

I do not believe a relationship can survive and thrive without repair to the trust. If left unresolved, it can manifest itself into a lack of respect for your partner. Worse yet, it can also become the source for a lack of self esteem.

 

Only you [and/or the two of you] can determine if the trust can be repaired. You would need to examine what it would take to turn things around. And whether or not you could truly put the past behind you and allow trust to grow again.

 

IMO, without trust the relationship has no future and will only bring pain to you.

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Guest Mr&Mrs-naughty

I would tell her when you are chatting with her as "someone else" that it is you she has been chatting with.

Then EVERYTHING would be out on the table. Nothing left to hide or deny.

 

I personnaly would not be able to stay in a relationship where trust has been so violated.

 

If it was me...after I told her it has been me she was chatting with I would tell her to pack her shit and get out.

 

Good luck in your relationship & I hope you everything works out for the best.

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The biggest problem I see here is a lack of trust and communication. She isn't being on honest with you and I don't think that will change if you give her what she wants by opening things back up to swinging. There are bigger problems here than whether or not she is allowed to get some on the side and swinging should never be an option chosen in an attempt to "save your marraige".

 

I would suggest that you confront her and let her know that it was you she was talking to on IM and remind her of all that she said to you. From what you have said here I have a feeling she will deny much of it as "stuff she made up to tantalize the person on the other end of the IM", but you can't let her off with that. Until she begins to be honest with you then your marriage really is doomed and she needs to understand that. And you need to know that YOU and your relationship with her are more important than a little action on the side.

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Lastly... I know, I know, "therapy, therapy, therapy,". Been there, done that, can't afford any more.

 

If I was in your position I would sell the house, the cars or what ever was need to get the help needed to save my marriage.

 

What is it going to cost you if you don't?

 

Swinging is not the answer for you two at this point or maybe ever in your life from what I have read here.

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I see your wife's attachment to internet sex as an obsession, even maybe an addiction, like alcoholism or gambling. It has gotten out of control and is negatively affecting your marriage.

 

If you have seen other patterns of obsession in her, then you can judge if my thoughts have any merit.

 

I agree with Mr Naughty that you should let her know it is you she has been chatting with online, BUT I WOULD NOT DO IT THROUGH THE CHAT. This is something that deserves face to face discussion. Sit down with her and pour your heart out about your pain.

 

Can you really continue to live like this?

 

Once you have your answer, you will know what to do.

 

I wish you well.

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Sitting here, pondering all this, Incommunicado, I've asked myself how I would react if my situation with Mrs. Alura were the same. I've decided there is nothing I wouldn't do to save our marriage.

 

If swinging were really that important to her, I would comply, but I'd comply while trying to learn why it is so important and whether or not swinging could really take the place of illicit sex, which is very exciting to some people. Perhaps its the secrecy that entices her. What is it about the on-line flirting that attracts her? What exists in your relationship that causes her to fear sharing her innermost thoughts with you?

 

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Maybe a compromise would be for you to sit beside her while she has her fun on line, being an active part.

 

If she's been cheating by flirting on line, you've been crossing the line of trust by entrapping her.

 

I'd take her out to dinner in a restaurant where y'all can talk and bring up the subject. In an atmosphere where you can't jump up and scream, you're both more likely to listen and learn.

 

My goal would be to come to an agreement that we wouldn't hide anything from each other again and, from that day forward, our primary goal would be the salvaging of our marriage. Together. If swinging is to be involved to satisfy the "itch," well, hell, that ain't all that bad, is it?

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I see this as simple CHEATING!!..She is doing stuff behind your back that is hurting you. I agree with others confront her that you are the one she is chatting with face to face. If you kept your archives print them so there is no he said she said problem. You may love her with all your heart but as i see it she doesn't respect you. Personally I would move on, do you really feel all the pain is worth it. I know I chat online a lot BUT..hubby reads everything!!! knows everything!! It is called trust! Once broken it is one of the hardest things to get back and without it there is no happy marriage. Also getting into swinging to try give her an outlet is not the answer. If she is already doing this behind your back i dont think she will stop that part if you let her swing. IT is not the answer. Gaining trust and her being honest is the answer to your problem.

 

I truly wish you the best of luck and I think deep down in your heart you know what you need to do.

 

my 2 cents for the day!

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Guest Mr&Mrs-naughty

I totaly agree with those who say that they would do anything to save their marriage.

 

But there comes a point where self respect has to take over.You never want to loose that. If you loose your self respect while trying to save your marriage and you still loose your marriage you have nothing left. Walking away with your self respect in tact is an imprtant thing. Dont compromise it. Unfortunately not every marriage is saveable. :(

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[Pride goes before destruction]

 

Personally I would admit I am fearing the worst for the marriage, and perhaps now, in light of all the facts exposed and on the table from both of you, I would admit perhaps a twinge of jealousy. Yes. Then tell her you love her but give one final ultimate demand. She may leave a while...but if you tell it like is ... then I've got a hunch she'll go 'play' awhile, start feeling empty about it...and come crawling back ...and that's when you unconditionally forgive her...in your mind. She'll know it. Then maybe you too can work back to trust from the ground up. THEN if she 'blows' it again (poor choice of words ..i know) you know for ABSOLUTE CERTAIN...that your done with her.

 

that is my option...I love my wife...and would afford her more than one chance...but not too many more than that...

 

"The important thing is to not stop questioning. Curiousity has it's own reason for existence".

Al Einstein

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There are so many different opinions on here. Each person agrees with one person on one thing, but disagress with then next!

 

I agree with doing anything to save your marriage. But I also agree with saving your self respect. I agree woth confronting her, but I would do it in person. It might do her some good to see your pain. I do not agree with swinging. In your own words, you would be rewarding her. Why do things you aren't comfortable with to save a marriage that the other doesn' seem to want?

 

Bottom line, talk to your wife, tell her how you feel. LISTEN to what she is saying about why she does what she does. See if there is anyway for you both to compromise, but don't compromise your self dignity. If she loves you she will at the very least meet you in the middle.You just need to decide what you are willing to sacrifice, & what you are not.

 

I wish you the best of luck! This is a horribe situation for anyone to be in. I feel your pain & hope that it is resoved soon! Good luck!

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Speaking from experience I have found that starting marriage counseling individually and fixing problems in one's self before fixing the problems as a couple works much more effectively. Several years ago we had some serious issues and the counselors decided to have us see seperate therapists alone first, fix ourselves and work on our problems as individuals, then later had us merge together and then work on the marriage together. My marriage has never been more solid since. I definitely had some internal issues I had to deal with and so did he and it was so much better to do it 1 on 1 and not have the therapy complicated by the input of my husband. He felt it was just as effective for him. Once we started to see the counselor together we felt more like whole people and then worked to build a solid foundation of communication. It was the best money we have ever spent and most well spent time in my life. Our problems weren't quite the same as yours but I feel your wife may have issues in which she could benefit from seeing a therapist one on one. And you probably have all this hurt, jealousy, anger in which you could benefit from one on one too. I believe if you can fix the problems in yourself first you may be able to fix the problems in your marriage. I don't believe that sex with other people should ever be a compromise in a marriage.

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Wow. In my opinion, there is going to be way too much baggage to stay together. I understand that people make mistakes. But how many chances can you give her? I know that if I cheated on my hubby, I might get a second chance but that's it. Likewise, if he cheated I'd give him another chance but after that forget it! She has shown a total lack of respect for you and your wishes, not once but several times. I don't blame you at all for spying...any person that did the stuff she did should expect to get spied on. I think that if you stay together, you will always wonder about what she's doing behind your back. One of the worst things about being cheated on is feeling stupid, like you were the last to know. Mr. Alura said that he would do whatever it took to keep his marriage together...thing is, Mrs. Alura would never disrespect him that way. Especially not repeatedly!! I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide.

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Thanks gang, I really appreciate the support. And, to those that say hang in their, I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel (though I probably should be).

 

Three key things happened to help put things in perspective. 1) Yesterday, my wife made it clear to my online character, that this was like porn to her. Merely fantasy material for solo sex, and that's all. That there would not be a meeting unless or until the time came that her husband open the door to swinging again, and, even then, only if my character could bring a friend to share. 2) She made it clear, as she revealed her indiscretions, that the two affairs both occurred during a time when our relationship was suffering immensely and she was not in a good place. No excuse, mind you, but it puts the second affair in the same timeframe and under the same circumstances as the first. 3) She made it clear again late this afternoon, when I tried to coax her, that, were she single she would have already met me for coffee. But, she is married with 13 years of relationship and will not risk it, both because of what she would stand to lose, and because of the hurt it would cause me if I knew. When I said, why not, since she was already breaking the online dirty talk rule? She said, that's just talk.

 

Now, I understand those of you who don't approve of the internet sex. I don't really either. But, my main concern what less the interactive nature than what could come of it. I got her pretty hot and bothered and very curious about me, and believe me when I say I know when my wife is turned on. And she still refused, without reservation, to meet me, every time I tried to steer her in that direction. So, even if I'm not keen on her outlet, the part I was worried about doesn't seem to be the concern I thought it was.

 

A good friend of mine made some interesting comments. First, he made clear that, one affair or two, they both came from the same timeframe in our lives, nearly two years ago, when our marriage was failing and she was weak. That timeframe has been apologized for and is past. The issue is the online behavior and, he asked if this was really a fair test, since, 1) It's actually me seducing her, so she's really having an online interaction with ME and 2) Since I know all the right buttons to push, even if she agreed to meet me, isn't that unfair from the start, since it puts her in a position of even greater weakness. I thought that was an interesting point of view.

 

Also, and this is by no means, meant to sound like a rationalization, but, if she asked me to stop downloading and reading dirty stories online, I would probably just say yes and then get more discreet about it, for the same reasons I know she has done that with her online outlet. Because she doesn't feel it's a threat, and it's something that she enjoys. Is this considerate of my feelings on the subject, no. It bypasses them. But, as I've reallized in my attempts to take her from online seduction to the real thing, it really isn't a threat, since she refused me repeatedly. She even made repeated attempts to tone down the sexual nature of the conversations, so as to be more in keeping with the rules she is supposed to obey. So maybe it's worth overlooking for now. The jury's still out, but I'd like to be able to sleep at night and spend my energy elsewhere.

 

By the way, my friend said, that, since it is me. If she did agree to a meeting I should go surprise her, and seduce her for real.

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From the sounds of it, if this lady's libido were wired into the national grid, she'd be powering Flagstaff by herself!

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First - let me say that the fact that trust has been broken is the biggest issue. That is the element in the lifestyle that makes swinging possible. I can be comfortable with Mrs Spoo "doing her thing" because I trust her without question. And I'd like to believe that this feeling is the same from her perspective. She knows - by experience - that if something makes her uncomfortable, she doesn't even have to explain why... that something is dropped.

 

We have a couple that we enjoy, but something about the female (who is incredible, by the way) just doesn't sit well with my wife. She has tried to explain why it bothers her, and she has wrestled with it, because to her it just doesn't seem like a good enough reason to not play with them again. My response - it doesn't matter. That feeling of "I'm not quite sure" is enough for me. I want to know I can count on her to show me the same respect.

 

Without that kind of trust, there is absolutely no way that we would survive the lifestyle.

 

On the other hand...

 

I can see the potential for a positive outcome here. The fact that she has been quite forceful in rebuffing your on-line personas suggestions for a face to face meet says that what she likely has is an addiction to the porn aspect of the whole thing, but a commitment to what you two have.

 

Your friend said an interesting thing - if she meets you, seduce her for real. The problem is, to me, if she did choose to meet you, all bets are off. The wall between fantasy and cheating has (even in her definition) been crossed. (This sounds like the Pina Colada song...)

 

She is very likely conflicted and unhappy with herself about all of this. I am guessing that she wants to make it work, but is being overcome by her desires. Men have this problem more than women. They love their wives, but the flesh is weak...

 

I wonder if there is a way that you could turn this situation into a lifestyle that is mutually satisfying for both of you? Use her weakness as a sexual strength that increases your chemistry. Have you ever watched "The Secretary"? Great flick about two people with some serious issues who find each other... They end up being one of the hottest love stories I've ever seen - not by changing into Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan - but by embracing the truth about who they are and living with it, without guilt, in a way that is mutually explosive.

 

Let's say you use what you know as a way to seduce her... Start dropping hints that you know who she is... Allow the on-line play to be hot for you - buy into it - and use it as a way to spring into a more exciting, sexual marriage. Build your trust around the good things she has said, not the weak things she has done. And then - when you think that the time is right, tell her you are going to meet her anyway - and just drop it...

 

Then - over dinner out or even a romantic evening at home - bring out a transcript of her pledging her devotion to you. Tell her that you are not her husband tonight, but Mr. On-line, and she has the permission to do what ever she wants to you - her husband said it was okay...

 

Then just let the wheels turn.

 

I would bet money that she struggles within herself about what she is doing. I'll bet she doesn't like it very much. But there is something there that makes her very unique and special and if you could mine that - figure it out - then maybe you two could not just save the marriage, but grow it into something electric.

 

How that would or would not translate into involvement in the lifestyle, I don't know. That is for you guys to discover. But this whole thing doesn't sound nearly as dismal as you might think. There is good stuff to work with here.

 

PS - I know the suggestion that I am making is left field, but my thought is that maybe there should be an alternative to hashing it out angrily or causing more hurt. I also know that your doing the above stuff would take a hell of a lot of forgiveness and love. I doubt I'd be forgiving enough to follow my own advice. But - you've tried counseling, arguing, separation, etc. Maybe something just a little different is what you need. And - you have to admit - the night you "come out" as Mr On-Line - you'd probably get the sex of your life... Or - at least - that is what I am crossing my fingers for... :D

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Spoomonkey that is some of the best advice I have heard. I am not even in the situation, but was totally blind to an idea like that. You have made me look at things (in this situation & in others) in a whole new light!

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Mr. Spoomonkey has an excellent idea. I am already going down that path. I came up with an excuse to talk about the bad things that have happened over the past year, without revealing myself as her latest, potential, online outlet. We talked about the affair (the one I am privy to), and the flirting and online interaction with friends and strangers. I talked with her about my concerns and insecurities, that her online actions could lead to real ones. But, that I understood that wouldn't happen and wanted to trust her and not stifle her. I said I understood that the reason she had initially ignored my concerns was because she knew it wasn't a threat to us and would probably not give up my own porn or dirty stories, had she asked me to. I suggested that she be allowed to do as she pleased online, provided she promised never to meet anyone without permission and with the understanding that she would keep copies of her online conversations and we would read them together periodically for our mutual stimulation. I also stated that I would bring the stories or videos or whatever I found online for my own private enjoyment, to bed with us. That way, we have our own, autoerotic pleasures, but no secrets and our private pleasure becomes part of our mutual pleasure. She seemed very open to the idea.

 

I will give it some time and work on the rest. But, I agree that this has the potential to be turned around.

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Incommunicado,

 

I can say without a doubt that we are in the exact same boat. I know exactly how bad it hurts to find out that the one you love most in this world has hurt you the greatest. It has always been my opinion that death would be preferrable to betrayal. Having said that, it will not be an easy path to take to get your marriage back to where it should be. But you have already begun the journey. I would echo the advice of others who have replied to say that swinging would be the wrong thing to do right now. And to those who replied that you should only forgive "x" amount of times before calling it quits, remember this is his decision to make. If he forgave one time or a hundred, it will not make him weak for doing so. It only makes him stronger, as his resolve for making this marriage work increases. I can only hope that your wife will see just what she is about to lose before it is too late. I hope for the best and please keep us updated.

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incommunicado, I do see some chance this can be saved, and I wish you the best in working it out.

 

If you ever do reveal you have been the one seducing her online, be very careful how you do it. She may feel betrayed and that you do not trust her. I would advise that you do not tell her and allow the relationship to fade away. In my opinion, you are playing with fire here.

 

She needs to be honest with you about her online activities. If this is stimulation she needs and you can 'participate' to some level, then I think it has the potential to improve your relationship. You have to make sure she feels that she can be honest with you, too.

 

In short, secrets should not be kept between lovers... :)

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mxdtxn774 said:
Incommunicado,

 

I can say without a doubt that we are in the exact same boat. I know exactly how bad it hurts to find out that the one you love most in this world has hurt you the greatest. It has always been my opinion that death would be preferable to betrayal. Having said that, it will not be an easy path to take to get your marriage back to where it should be. But you have already begun the journey. I would echo the advice of others who have replied to say that swinging would be the wrong thing to do right now. And to those who replied that you should only forgive "x" amount of times before calling it quits, remember this is his decision to make. If he forgave one time or a hundred, it will not make him weak for doing so. It only makes him stronger, as his resolve for making this marriage work increases. I can only hope that your wife will see just what she is about to lose before it is too late. I hope for the best and please keep us updated.

 

Personally, mxdtxn774, I don't agree with some of the advice offered. Different strokes, different folks.

 

However, I do absolutely agree with your comments in terms of the number of times he should forgive before calling it quits. Your statement - "If he forgave one time or a hundred, it will not make him weak for doing so..." - a rather powerful thought we all need to keep in mind. Thanks for pointing that out.

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I like Spoo's idea but am still uneasy with misleading your spouse, whether it be the wife's not telling Incommunicado about the on-line flirtation or his not telling her that he is her fantasy lover. I'm amazed she's not caught on merely from his writing style; Mrs. Alura would recognize me in a heartbeat.

 

Brad has made some excellent points. I'd suggest you heed them well. His most important point is, in my opinion, "Lovers should not keep secrets."

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BradAndJanet said:
I would advise that you do not tell her and allow the relationship to fade away. In my opinion, you are playing with fire here....

 

In short, secrets should not be kept between lovers... :)

 

There's a contradiction in what you say.

 

I see this as a positive sign, in that each of us, when open and willing, can see where there can be more than one way of handling a situation.

 

There are some things we experience as individuals which cannot, or should not, ever be shared with anyone--even our most beloved spouse.

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Elusive BiFem said:
Sexual addiction. That's what I think.

That is exactly what I was thinking too.

 

If I were in your position I would do research on sexual addiction and see if she is showing any signs of that... if she is then I would do research on what doctors in your area are good in that area. Then I would approach her about it in a nice way as to not offend her and see what she says and maybe you can get her to a doctor that can tell you if she has a problem or not. If she does well you know what you need to do next and that is to help your wife over this problem. If she doesn't then you have got quite a big decision on your hands.

 

but I would definitely without a doubt look into the sexual addiction aspect of this before I did anything.

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I don't think you did anything wrong by acting as though you were soemone else online. But as for not telling her for fear that she will think that you don't trust her, what is wrong with that? You shouldn't & she should know that!

 

Good luck with your marriage & I hope everything works out for you either way it goes.

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LikeMinds321 said:
... There's a contradiction in what you say. ...

I know that... :) Quite a paradox, but it illustrates the tangled web we weave. Better to never start down that road, don't you think?

 

LikeMinds321 said:

... There are some things we experience as individuals which cannot, or should not, ever be shared with anyone--even our most beloved spouse. ...

That is a deep philosophical statement that I would like to discuss with you over a bottle of wine or two someday. I'm not sure if I agree or not, but you may try to convince me... ;)

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LikeMinds321 said:
There are some things we experience as individuals which cannot, or should not, ever be shared with anyone--even our most beloved spouse.

I wrote this not thinking about sex, or swinging at all. I was thinking about my belief that we all have things we have experienced in life that we choose not to share with others. Sometimes because they would hurt too much to verbalize, other times because it may hurt someone else.

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In my opinion, for what is it is worth, I think that your marriage may potentially be at an end. No trust, no communication and the lack of feelings about how you feel to me is not a marriage.

 

I have been married three times before this marriage and have been down the roads you are describing. My last husband had been married for 17 years when I met him and I thought that I was different from the others. I could never trust him, no matter what he said or did because of the fact that when I met him he was married and cheated with me. The way that I felt "What made me so special that he wouldn't do the same to me"? Constant conflict and distrust even though he was being faithful.

 

I don't think it's sexual addiction, I feel in my opinion it's either boredom or just lack of attraction or love and respect.

 

If I ever want to hide something, no matter what it is, from my husband, then why be with him? Marriage is about communication and if she cannot communicate about her true feelings about sex, love, money, etc...then what is left?

 

I am not a therapist, and my husband and I are by no means perfect but he is my best friend and I tell him everything...and I mean everything. If you had a male best friend wouldn't you tell him all? Spouses should feel the same way in my opinion. Not saying that just because one spouse feels one way that it should be, but at least it's out in the open and very much open for discussion.

 

Sorry dear but I feel your relationship may be headed in the wrong direction and swinging is definitely not an answer or solution to the problem, in fact it may be the final straw. Good luck!

 

Blondie and Mikie

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This weekend brought some interesting information to light...

 

My wife knew it was me talking to her online all along. I thought I was catching her in more online shenanigans AND uncovering yet another unhappy truth she had been keeping from me.

 

My best friend, who I have mentioned in previous postings, had given us each "homework" months ago when I had discovered her erotic e-mails (which really wasn't the threat I thought it was). Mine (aparantly known to her), was to seduce my wife online. Hers (unbeknownst to me) was to come completely clean about everything she had done to damage the trust, or shake the confidence in our relationship. Well, I thought it was silly and never did it until now, so she never did hers.

 

When I started our dialogue last week, I admit, I was doing it at least in part to spy on her again, and when she was responsive to my advances, I thought she was still receptive to interent sex. So, I used it to get her motor revved (sp?) and to get information out of her.

 

She used it have some harmless, online fun, and to tell me the truth.

 

I asked her yesterday, why she would tell me those things, if she knew it was me. She said, "because my homework assignment was to be completely honest with you. Because things have improved so much between us for some time. We are paying more attention to one another, having more sex, being more affectionate. Turning toward each other when we have a problem, rather than away. We have even been talking about finally having children. But, the spector of what happened, and the lack of trust it created is still there. I owed you the truth, and I had to know if we could survive it and move beyond what happened, before we even considered creating a family.

 

She also said she was waiting for me to confront her and couldn't believe I hadn't said anything to her all weekend.

 

She talked about everything. About the affair I didn't know of, that happened at a time of weakness then things were bad. About the one I did know of, that happened when our bad time came to a head and she was planning on leaving me. Both were over a year and a half ago.

 

She talked about the e-mail sex with friends, which she maintains was harmless porn for her, but, in light of my feelings about potential weakness or discovery, she had stopped doing at my request and not returned to it.

 

She even mentioned every friend or acquaintance of ours who had ever come on too strong, put their hand on her ass, stolen a kiss or even asked her for sex.

 

I spent a pretty miserable and confused day, torn between my appreciation for the risk she had taken in opening up to me, and my desire to punish her for the affair I hadn't known about.

 

But she told me the truth out of love for me, and a desire to rebuild a trust that hasn't really been there for some time, regardles of how much the rest of our relationship has improved in the past year and a half. I have to give her credit for that.

 

By the way, she also made it clear she doesn't want an open relationship, doesn't want the freedom to have e-mail sex with friends or strangers, and doesn't want to swing (certainly not now). And she can't believe we did it originally during a time in which we were unders such stress and our relationship was at such risk. Though she doesn't blame swinging, she blames herself, it my have contributed to her behavior, given the stress we were under.

 

Anyway, I think that's it for this story. I expect it will take a while for wounds to heal, but her willingness to risk everything and come clean means a lot to me and I am willing to give us a chance.

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That is so good to hear incommunicado! It sounds like you 2 are on your way to mending your marriage. It is nice to hear that she doesn't have some sort of sexual addiction & recognizes that swinging or any kind of sexual stuff like thta would only hurt you 2 at tyhe moment. Good luck with your marriage! I hope everything goes the way you would like!

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Wow! I'm very pleased for you both. Now you have clean foundation to rebuild on. I'm getting a good vibe about this and think your relationship will be much stronger than it was before. Much luck! :)

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Incommunicado - Thank you for sharing your experience with us. It takes a certain courage to open and share and ask for advice. I learned a lot from reading the posts and I'm not sure if I could managed the same experience with such ... compassion and understanding as you have. You obviously have a lot of love and caring for your wife and I hope that the two of you will be able to resolve things and spend many more years together!

 

Mrs. WA

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Soap Opera writers would be envious of your story.

 

As long as you can trust your partner 100% everything else is just window dressing. If you only trust her 99% and know for sure that you'll never get that 1% back you might as well cut the ties now. As for talking about having kids, my advice would be to wait awhile. Sounds like your still a little rocky and kids certainly don't make things easier.

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I too think your wife is addicted...to sex AND the internet

 

I would not just confront her about iming with her...I'd get her in a chat and then finally send her a pic, and make it one that she is sure to understand is you and then tell her that you need to talk...maybe she will be more open and honest while typing, or maybe you can just talk when you get home

 

The last thing I would do is start swinging again, "just because you love her and might as well allow her to do it openly". Your wife has a problem, which means your marriage has a problem and that means that swinging is OUT until your relationship is back on track (without trust, you have nothing)

 

I wish you the very best

 

hugs

bon

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To quote the Bard: "This above all; to thine own self be true."

 

I am writing this without reading the other responses, so this is my opinion free of prejudice from what others have said, so forgive me if I repeat something already posted.

 

I see it as the problem here is honesty, respect, and trust. None of which you have with your wife. She does not respect your feelings and is not honest with you, and you can't trust her. Therefore there is no real loving relationship. IMO, if she really loves and respects you she would do nothing to intentionally hurt you. Which obviously she is doing. Her whole attitude is "I'm going to do what I want and you just have to deal with it."

 

I think you are wrong in your comment that many on here would leave the marriage before leaving swinging, and that swinging prevents them from cheating. I think you are interpreting what people say in a way to support your personal beliefs and feelings about swinging. If you are into swinging for those reasons, you are in it for the wrong reason and you are headed down the path of relationship destruction, if not already nearly at the end. It is a strong emotional bond, respect, and trust that you have with your spouse that prevents affairs and cheating and enables you to swing.

 

I think the basic premise in swinging is you do it, or don't do it, as a couple. And your SO is the most important person in your life and you hold them in regard above all others. From the people I have seen post on here I get the feeling that they love their partners so much that if their partner wanted to quit tomorrow, they would do it, with no regrets. I know I would. I don't need another pussy more than I need the emotional stability my wife brings into my life.

 

Swinging is about honestly, openness and playing as a couple (or at least knowingly separate). The idea is about taking your spouse along on your little adventures and making sure they are part of it. And she is not doing that. She is leaving you out, and lying to you about it. What she is doing is cheating. Period.

 

Sex should never be about filling a void in your being and it sounds to me like there is a void in her self esteem that she is trying to fill by having sex. Something about being attractive to so many other men makes her feel better about herself. I think she is addicted to the rush she gets from doing this, and she doesn't care if it hurts you in the process. She is being very selfish, or she really doesn't care that much for the relationship, and is to codependent to end it. I think her strongly encouraging you to see other women is a way for her to justify what she is doing so she feels better about it.

 

As for you... I repeat William Shakespeare. "This above all; to thine own self be true." I hate to tell anyone to bail out of a relationship unless it is destructive, which this seems to be to me. If her actions cause you pain and suffering, and she doesn't care enough about you, and doesn't respect you enough to stop doing something that is hurting you, then you need to get out of there and find a relationship in which you feel good. This is obviously hurting you so bad that you are obsessing about it and even taking the time to spy on her. This is self destructive behavior. I know, because I've been there. So no matter what you say about "living with it", you can't. That is just codependence talking. It will eat you up and drive you crazy.

 

Good luck,

 

Mr. WS

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P.S. After posting my response above, I read your "resolution" to the situation and maybe feel a bit sheepish. I really hope all this is true, and I wish the best for you both. I've been there, so I am a skeptic.

 

Good luck

 

Mr. WS

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