Issue with wife breaking the rules we had in place

Hi everyone. Just joined this board but my wife and I have been swinging for about a year now and have met mostly with couples and single men.

From the beginning this was my wife’s idea and she had to really work on me to get me to try it but once we did we started to have fun. We created ground rules where we would always have to be present in a swinging situation, condoms would always be used, and we wouldn’t do this solo or behind the others back.

That worked for us for a while but this week I found out she had broke that rule. She had a fantasy of being dominated by a man and was a member of a fetish site that dealt with that. She met a guy on there and they started chatting. I’m fine with her chatting to whoever and exchanging pics etc but it got to the point where she was interested in meeting this guy solo. She didn’t want me there if she was going to be tied up and dominated and all that. Made sense to me.

I told her I didn’t feel comfortable with her going to a stranger's house and being tied up, etc. It’s dangerous and dumb and if she really wanted to try this she would have to make me comfortable first by letting me meet the guy and watch the first time and see how I felt after that. I was very adamant about that and she had asked me on a few occasions and I always gave her the same answer.

Well after a bottle of wine and two weeks after it happened she tells me she went to this guy's house after work and he told her to get on her knees and did all this stuff to her. Then tied her up in the bed and used vibrators and some anal hook? Then ended by having sex with her.

Don’t really know how to handle this and looking for some advice. She says that she messed up and apologized but I feel she made a dumb and dangerous choice and was unfaithful as well. What are your thoughts? Thanks.

Good morning and welcome to The Swingers Board. Hopefully you and your wife can spend some time here. There is a lot of information that can make swinging more fun, less dangerous and such.

You guys set out some pretty simple rules for swinging. I'd expect the condom rule to be the one to get broken. If your wife wants to be with guys alone, and she has, statistically she will again. You just have to decide what course of action to take. Can you handle her going out with a guy alone? How did you feel when she told you about it? What are the consequences if she continues if any?

I don't know your age, length of relationship or anything but the little you tell. My tiny perspective tells me you are being manipulated. I get the impression she has some deep sexual desires that need satisfied. She convinced you to swing in order to explore within the marriage. I don't think she has communicated all of the reasons she wants to be doing this, which needs resolved. She may have desires that she is hesitant to share with you, at least not yet.

You can be brought into swinging in a fairly vanilla way and slowly be introduced to more variety as time goes on and the shock value lessens. Before you know it you are hosting a bukakke gang bang and thinking, this is normal. Probably not, just saying be careful. You have the right to be comfortable in this situation.

Actions over words. Analyzing the excuses to death is tempting but the important fact here is that the two of you had an understanding and she ignored it.

I agree with JandKinBoise, she knew what she intended to do and you're being manipulated. "Confessing" and then acting like you're the bad guy when you get upset after she was "good enough to tell you the truth" is a common strategy in vanilla life, too.

There's no excuse for either partner being pressured or tricked into playing in a way they aren't interested in. Sorry you're dealing with this.

I don't think you were unreasonable to want to be present the first time to make sure she was safe. The wife and I do bondage together and yes it's something you need to have complete trust in the partner. I've done some baby bondage alone with two other women on solo play dates, but we're known friends amongst both spouses and I still played it tamer than I do with my partner just so they stayed comfortable.

I agree that breaking that rule in that situation was not good. It's not like you wouldn't have let her play alone later.

My ol' pappy: "Shouldadones don't count."

The past can't be changed. You and your wife need to accept that and work (together) to resolve the issues her actions caused. Rules are commonly broken. It may be time to look at those rules and decide if they are serving your needs. Laura and I only had one rule,"Don't make love with anybody else." Easy to keep.

Monahseetah: "Look to the next sun, not the last."

I think you two need to reassess your participating in this hobby. What she did was indeed unfaithful and was a betrayal of trust, one could even call it cheating. It may have been just the moment or the spine tickling thrill of something new and illicit and potentially dangerous but it was clearly a horrible decision on her part. You can work past it, but until you do, involving others in your sex life would likely be a trust problem for you and drama for the other people. Good luck.

Have you thought of punishing her? Seriously, she just might want you to.

But, and I agree with the others, what she did could have been very dangerous. But it might be that the danger is part of her needs.

Stop all swinging activities, figure out for real why both of you are in this. Then figure out your future actions. Sounds to us like you need to reconnect and see where you really stand. Be open and honest with each other. Good luck to you both.

To give a little more detail, swinging was originally my wife’s idea and it took a lot of no’s from me before I said yes. Basically she wore me down lol. That’s not to say I didn’t enjoy it when we started because I did and it had been fun but the times we have I knew what I was getting in to.

The domination stuff has always been her thing seperately and not something we were involved in with our swinging. I get the appeal for people that like that but outside of being behind my back and unsafe the guy told her to get on her knees and did a lot of things to her that I can’t wrap my head around. Plus he wasn’t that attractive of a guy either.

I don’t know how I feel honestly right now but thank you all for the responses.

First of all understand that BDSM is a powerful fantasy and quickly becomes an urge and then a NEED. Since she was on a fetish website and communicating with Dominant men (you can bet your life he wasn't the only one - communicating I mean) then it was eventually going to happen anyway - the need is that strong. At least she spent time carefully selecting her first Dom. She may not be submissive to you but obviously she has a need to be submissive to someone else. You are not into it so you would not be Dominant enough for her and even if you tried you would not be convincingly into it for her. Halfhearted domination is a wet blanket (anyone catch the lower case "D" there?). Those who are seriously into that lifestyle understand the rules of engagement and the power exchange between the Top and bottom (Dominant and submissive)and all the safety issues. It is actually harder to be good Top than a bottom - you are responsible for the bottom, their welfare and THEIR SATISFACTION. This is role play but the trick is to make it seem real to both participants. All that being said, I agree that since she persuaded you - wore you down more to the point - into swinging in the first place and she has a submissive fetish AND she was already acting on it by being on that website, it was inevitable that she would do this if you refused to participate (the FORCE is strong - believe me). Maybe she thought that swinging might suffice, but I doubt it. Given that she had planned to do it, at least she took some time to choose the first man to Dominate her. The fact that he wasn't as you put it "that attractive" is mostly irrelevant in BDSM - or maybe not to her, maybe that is part of her fetish - to be Dominated, used and fucked by a man she does not find conventionally sexually attractive (define "attractive!) - how much more submissive can you get? (You said "had sex with" her. I can guaranty that was not the scene - he fucked her and she loved it.) You are not into BDSM so you cannot get your head around "the things he did to her" or that she was the willing participant. I get that, but you have to realize at least that she - in fact they both - enjoy and thrive on it. The fact that she told you the first thing he did was tell her to get on her knees and she did willingly (probably very eagerly) ought to be a big clue. Also although it sounds logical that she should let you meet him first, in fact believe it or not it would pretty much destroy the fantasy - unless you were taking her to surrender her to him and wimp off home on your own, but that wouldn't be on your radar.

Unfortunately I can't offer you much advice except that the two of you have to work it out somehow between you. Leaving it unresolved will be a disaster. And you both have to resist any finger pointing. There is no question that she cheated on you and one thing is certain, it will happen again and again and...... with or without your consent or knowledge. Even if she agrees to stop now, eventually the NEED will become so strong she will succumb to it. The problem with that is the risk of becoming so desperate she might get into something actually dangerous on the spur of the moment.

I strongly recommend you get and read a copy of Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns - The Romance and Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism - by Phillip Miller. You can get it on Amazon It is one of most highly recognized and authoritative works on the subject. At least this will give you some understanding of what it is all about and what is driving her and help you both resolve the issue one way or another. Perhaps call a truce with no more activity her part until you have (both) read the book. Maybe discuss parts of it together - let her show you what turns her on about it. Though I realize understanding it does not necessarily make it OK for you.

All I can say is I wish you both the very best of luck.

Thank you Jnr for your insight. Elizabeth Cramer also has several books on S & M available.

Can you get past the cheating?

Please don’t swing right now, not fair to the others.

Is there a way to explore this safely together? Role play?

As hard as it was to hear at least she did tell you. Best of luck.

Yes, Elizabeth Cramer has a number of good books on BSDM and the kinkier side of sex. But they are more along the lines of relatively short and specific instruction manuals. Screw the Roses… explains the mystique, power exchange, attraction and psychology of BDSM and covers pretty much all activities in addition to instruction, care and welfare and safety. It should be your first book to read to give you some understanding of where your wife is coming from (no pun intended) and help get your mind around the “things he did to her”.

I have some experience in the subject so if you want to PM me to discuss anything or ask any questions, feel free to do so. But don’t expect too much by way of specific advice, you have to work this through yourselves.

BDSM is about relinquishing control to someone else – the power exchange as it is called. Someone who you trust and with whom you have set boundaries and safety measures in advance (everyone has heard of the “safe word” today – BTW: It’s not always a word.) It can range from mildly kinky to quite extreme, most is somewhere in the middle. Often there is agreement to push the limits – explore the boundaries of the submissive, which enables them to progress carefully and regardless of how convincing the Dominant is, adds an element of true reality to the role play. Many submissives want to be taken to the point where they have to “tap out” so to speak. Not everyone mixes BDSM and sex – in fact it is rare for professional Dominants to engage in any sexual activities because it’s illegal and they risk criminal prosecution, which apart from ruining their income would also ruin their vanilla reputation in many case – not all professionals are lifestylers. But in non-professional situations it’s very common. Since your wife was so interested in both swinging and submissive BSDM, she obviously appears to have the need to submit to being a sex slave. The “forced” sex aspect of it is a strong need in many submissives. In some cases it even manifests itself in acting out rape fantasies which can be quite elaborate. So it seems unlikely that you, being her loving husband, would work for her in the role of Dominant and it would be virtually impossible for you to be convincing for her. She needs men who are into that kind of BDSM/sex mixture of Domination. It’s unlikely to stop at one. One or the other of them will sooner or later need someone fresh and different. Or he might even invite one or more of his friends in the scene to join him in Dominating her or “loan” her to them – which of course would be with her consent, possibly even at her request. Safe, sane and consensual – the cardinal rules of BDSM.

I do have a suggestion that might possibly work if you still want to be “meet” her Master and be present during her Domination. Perhaps you can suggest to her the following and see if they would agree to it. (I'm sure he probably would, in fact he would quite likely enjoy the opportunity.) You would be present to watch but naked and completely restrained. You would have no input whatsoever on the activities and be gagged so that you would not be able to interrupt the proceedings verbally. Anything else would ruin the entire scene for them and be a total waste of time. Being naked is important for two reasons, first it establishes and emphasizes that you have no control in the situation and are a passive bystander. It would take a huge leap of faith for you. However you would hopefully begin to understand firsthand what drives her and it is possible that it might surprise you - and being naked you would not be able to hide that, it would keep you honest! Just don’t try to walk up and treat him like an equal when you are introduced to him. He will know why you are there and you don’t have to be submissive towards him yourself but be polite and respectful, after all he is her Master and effectively owns her during the session.

As a side note to illustrate some of the psychology of BDSM and sex, there is an interesting phenomenon among powerful women that is not exactly common but certainly not extremely rare either. Not in your wife’s case, but it does give some insight into the kinds of things that motivate people. It affects some women who are in positions of power over men, and are naturally assertive and competitive – typically but not exclusively in a professional setting. This small group of women have great difficulty having a conventional sexual relationship with men, yet they also crave it. They – usually secretly – submit to being sexual slaves on a frequent basis. Being “forced” enables them to give themselves permission to have sexual interactions with men who they would normally regard as inferior to them. We human beings are a strange and complex breed!

Once again I wish you both the very best of luck.

Do you know the answer to that question? You already know the answer to that question. You told her not to do it until you got to meet the guy and she just said screw it I’m going to do it after work and I don’t care what you say and then two weeks later she tells you about it. You need to just let her go, you can learn to love her but you can’t be with somebody that you don’t trust. I feel sorry for you bro. But you need to let her go because she doesn’t respect you