We talked but we didn't cover what we needed to, topics to cover for newbies?

A quick backstory. We had been discussing swinging for several months. My end of conversation was focused on getting the green light and trying to make sure Ms. K was comfortable with the choice. We did cover her fears and concerns, I didn’t think I had fears or would have strong emotions after. The issue came after our first MFM. We made several newbie mistakes like drinking too much, probably to ease our nerves or get the nerve up. We also had no clue what we were actually doing. We were with an aggressive male that took charge and it was almost a hot wife or cuckold situation which wasn’t what I wanted. All that being said we had a blast and have learned more of what each of us want/need. We definitely will try it again. It was a super hot night after the dust settled.

The question at hand is, what do you actually talk about? We are good communicators but didn’t know what we were doing or what to ask one another. You don’t know what you don’t know, so communication was about should we do it? Will we be ok after we do it? I was wrapped up in the heat of the discussion and never realized I would have the emotions to deal with while Ms. K didn’t.

I’m asking basically for a check list of topics to cover with one another. I know that is individual but we do need some guidance. How/what do you cover the emotional portion in pregame conversation? What are some basics that need to be covered that a newbie may not consider?

For instance, I now know to discuss what we want/ don’t want with the third is a must. Also relaying what we want to each other is vital as well.

Last how do you check in with each other while you’re in the moment to make sure everything is going ok?

We are fine and have grown from the experience. Even though there was some negative feelings on my part and hers because I didn’t feel great afterwards (no fault of hers at all). The end result was definitely positive. We look forward to growing together in this exciting journey.

I hope this all makes sense.

Cheers

S&N

As far as the other guy taking over, find a get on a site like sls. Read his profile, check out his certs. Look for somebody that knows he’s lucky enough to be able to join the two of you, it’s all about her and he’s just there to lend a helping hand. Before our first we vetted pretty tough and it was well worth it. I guess another route would be to look at their height, weight, photos and find a guy that’s not very intimidating, somebody who you can toss out if need be. Can’t predict emotions beforehand, but if you’re both ready you should have no problem talking through anything that made you uncomfortable the next day. Good luck with the next one!

A quick backstory. We had been discussing swinging for several months. My end of conversation was focused on getting the green light and trying to make sure Ms. K was comfortable with the choice. We did cover her fears and concerns, I didn’t think I had fears or would have strong emotions after. The issue came after our first MFM. We made several newbie mistakes like drinking too much, probably to ease our nerves or get the nerve up. We also had no clue what we were actually doing. We were with an aggressive male that took charge and it was almost a hot wife or cuchold situation which wasn’t what I wanted. All that being said we had a blast and have learned more of what each of us want/need. We definitely will try it again. It was a super hot night after the dust settled.

The question at hand is, what do you actually talk about. We are good communicators but didn’t know what we were doing or what to ask one another. You don’t know what you don’t know, so communication was about should we do it? Will we be ok after we do it? I was wrapped up in the heat of the discussion and never realized I would have the emotions to deal with while Ms. K didn’t.

I’m asking basically for a check list of topics to cover with one another. I know that is individual but we do need some guidance. How/what do you cover the emotional portion in pregame conversation? What are some basics that need to be covered that a newbie may not consider?

For instance, I now know to discuss what we want/ don’t want with the third is a must. Also relaying what we want to each other is vital as well.

Last how do you check in with each other while you’re in the moment to make sure everything is going ok?

We are fine and have grown from the experience. Even though there was some negative feelings on my part and hers because I didn’t feel great afterwards (no fault of hers at all). The end result was definitely positive. We look forward to growing together in this exciting journey.

I hope this all makes sense.

Cheers

S&N

*************************************************************************

I just posted such a list to you personally. We use it once a year. Check your board email account.

If you want it in usable form, I will send it offlist to your personal Email. sending as an attachment did not work on the Board email system.

Two things I noted from your post.

First you were looking for a greenlight for yourself. Have you considered giving HER a unilateral noncancelable green light without a time limit?

Second it does not sound to me like you had enough communication before hand, not talk, communication.

I'd love the checklist!

You are so right we didn't communicate correctly. We have great communication typically but we didn't know what all needed to be covered. Ms. K definitely had the green light but again I had no idea what that meant at the time. Im not upset with her at all, she had a great time. That's what I wanted in the end.

So our goal is to be more informed on what we need to cover communicating next time. We we're both over excited and basically unprepared what happened. As I said we made several mistakes we learned from. No regrets, just very new and still learning the ropes.

S&N

I'd love the checklist!

 

You are so right we didn't communicate correctly. We have great communication typically but we didn't know what all needed to be covered. Ms. K definitely had the green light but again I had no idea what that meant at the time. Im not upset with her at all, she had a great time. That's what I wanted in the end.

 

So our goal is to be more informed on what we need to cover communicating next time. We we're both over excited and basically unprepared what happened. As I said we made several mistakes we learned from. No regrets, just very new and still learning the ropes.

S&N

Did you look in your email on this site? It is there but not properly formatted. If you care to you can post me privately with an actual email account and I can send it.

BTW many of us maintain a gmail or yahoo account expressly for LS mail as well as a google voice number for that purpose. We are on SLS same name.

When you mentioned having to deal with feelings you didn't know you had, I felt like I was reading my own post from a few months ago. It took both my wife and myself by surprise that I would even have the insecurities that I had.

Those insecurities are the starting point of discussions with your wife. Both of you need to be open and honest about what scares the two of you. If you don't address those things openly, the insecurities will grow into something that could destroy your marriage.

Once you get past what bothered you about the experience, you can move on to what you both liked about it.

With both likes and dislikes all out in the open and addressed, you will have a clear picture of the kind of person you are looking to interact with in the future.

I think a good road map for talking about getting into swinging is 1) Do we want to do this?, and then if the first one is a yes or a maybe, then 2) How do we want to do this? Both of those questions sort of work together though since the answer to #1 may be as long as the conditions in #2 are followed. For example in your case, if one of your conditions was you still wanted to maintain the lead, not relinquish it to someone else, then just by having talked about that and both agreed to it, you probably would have given off a different vibe and not left sort of a void that it sounds like he was more than happy to step up into.

Lots of people when they have that talk come up with a long list of rules and boundaries for Question #2. I think when you are new though, having too many is better than having too few, since it can help keep you from moving forward on something that was best not moved forward on. It's hard to have that sort of control and patience though I know...once you've decided to do it, then you want to just do it and get the ice broke.

Too many rules can be a problem later since it's almost like you're setting yourselves up to break a rule when there are many, but it's a lot easier to drop rules off the list as you go along than it is to add them after something went bad since you've got that problem to deal with, and just coming up with a new rule probably isn't going to be an instant solution of is forgotten, things are golden now.

On the checking question, we've been together so long we know what the other is thinking and feeling without almost even having to look, much less say. It's like you can just sense it in the air Some people use code words and other approaches like that, which is fine, but the main thing is just pay attention to each other, you'll know how things are going.

My best advice, and I'm sure eyes are rolling, is to listen to podcasts. My wife and I would coordinate which episodes we would listen to during the day, then discuss the topics at night when we lye in bed. After, a couple of hundred hours of listening and discussing we felt very prepared to jump in - even with both feet! ?

We have had people in the LS for many years refuse to believe that we were only into it for a couple of months.

Also, I would read every post and thread on this board and bring up topics during our talks.

Podcasts:

That Couple Next Door

We Gotta Thing

Swinger Diaries

Just don't be dissolutioned that there won't be struggles from time to time. But, you will have the tools to deal with those struggles. Thank God for Headspace and meditation in general!

2silvertongues — Just don’t be too hard on yourselves. These things were some of the unknown unknowns.

We love this board! Thanks everybody for the advice. We honestly can not believe how sexy the communication is. It might be hotter than the sex.

We do have a lot to talk about and grow through. Foe me I know I won't get caught feeling like that again unaware. We might have other things we didn't know but we've git this one covered for now.

Cheers

S&N

1. How do we maintain communication in the heat of the moment?

2. How does one best communicate they have now become uncomfortable in the situation?

3. What to do when one group finishes before the other? (Mostly problematic in foursomes)

In the beginning couples are trying to establish boundaries and trust. So making sure both spouses are having fun during the act is paramount. Its a new situation, so you are never going to know every question to ask before you experience it.

1. How do we maintain communication in the heat of the moment?

2. How does one best communicate they have now become uncomfortable in the situation?

I'm not sure what needs to be communicated if everyone's having fun. If you like, you could call over to your spouse and say, "You okay, honey?"

You should always have a safe word, something you wouldn't normally use in regular speech. We've used 'gerrymander' for example. When you hear your spouse say that, you stop immediately and find out what the problem is, correcting it if you can, both of you leaving the situation if necessary.

My wife and I had an MFM once with a guy who was overly aggressive. It wasn't a non-pleasurable evening, but it wasn't the best either. He was a one-and-done, as we call such encounters.

One of the things my wife and I do with either couples of single males; we usually meet them in a restaurant, and my wife or I will eventually squeeze the other's thigh, just enough to get attention. The response is squeezing back; one squeeze for yes, two for no. It's an easy non-verbal way to communicate with each other about where the evening is going.

When we first got into play, we had a lot of rules. Those have largely melted away over the years, but we still have a small set remaining; safety first is important of course. We also have the 'golden parachute'. If either of us decides the evening needs to end and needs to end now, we say it or signal it. The other will cease what they're doing, and we'll get dressed and leave. It's not something that can be questioned at that moment; we would just leave. We can talk about it on the way home. Neither of us has ever invoked the golden parachute, but it's a comfort to know its there if needed.

We love this board! Thanks everybody for the advice. We honestly can not believe how sexy the communication is. It might be hotter than the sex.

 

We do have a lot to talk about and grow through. Foe me I know I won't get caught feeling like that again unaware. We might have other things we didn't know but we've git this one covered for now.

Cheers S&N

It's a learning curve. It's not like our society teaches us how to be non-monogamous. Well, not intentionally so anyway. Learning to be happy, fulfilled, and comfortable in non-monogamous situations is something you grow into. It being a learning curve doesn't mean we're not supposed to do it of course; learning how to maintain monogamous relationships is a learning curve too. My wife especially would get butterflies before playing early on in our swinging adventures. She doesn't anymore, and she's quite comfortable with being non-monogamous now, as am I.

Sometimes negative things will happen. Don't let that sour your opinion of swinging. It's just like dating in the vanilla world; sometimes there are going to be some experiences that aren't the best. Just learn from them, as you already are doing, and you'll be fine.

Welcome to the board We are a helpful bunch. I can tell you that for my wife and I, we would never have gotten into swinging if it weren't for this board. It's such a wealth of information! It answered so many questions for us, and really helped us to feel so much more comfortable and really got us to our first experience. I'm glad you enjoy the board too

.. It's not like our society teaches us how to be non-monogamous.

A quick backstory. We had been discussing swinging for several months. My end of conversation was focused on getting the green light and trying to make sure Ms. K was comfortable with the choice. We did cover her fears and concerns, I didn’t think I had fears or would have strong emotions after. The issue came after our first MFM. We made several newbie mistakes like drinking too much, probably to ease our nerves or get the nerve up. We also had no clue what we were actually doing. We were with an aggressive male that took charge and it was almost a hot wife or cuckold situation which wasn’t what I wanted. All that being said we had a blast and have learned more of what each of us want/need. We definitely will try it again. It was a super hot night after the dust settled.

 

The question at hand is, what do you actually talk about? We are good communicators but didn’t know what we were doing or what to ask one another. You don’t know what you don’t know, so communication was about should we do it? Will we be ok after we do it? I was wrapped up in the heat of the discussion and never realized I would have the emotions to deal with while Ms. K didn’t.

 

I’m asking basically for a check list of topics to cover with one another. I know that is individual but we do need some guidance. How/what do you cover the emotional portion in pregame conversation? What are some basics that need to be covered that a newbie may not consider?

 

For instance, I now know to discuss what we want/ don’t want with the third is a must. Also relaying what we want to each other is vital as well.

 

Last how do you check in with each other while you’re in the moment to make sure everything is going ok?

 

We are fine and have grown from the experience. Even though there was some negative feelings on my part and hers because I didn’t feel great afterwards (no fault of hers at all). The end result was definitely positive. We look forward to growing together in this exciting journey.

 

I hope this all makes sense.

Cheers

S&N

So when you saw that male being agressive you let things go....you could have stopped it....no?

I think your decision to not marry your ex was a good one, B.

I think your decision to not marry your ex was a good one, B.

I don't disagree. But, less so because of her and more because the woman I did marry is phenomenal. I would have been happy with my ex. Of course, life would have been different. The ironic thing is that I once did a mild MFM with her, where we were all naked and my friend and I masturbated and came on her. She really enjoyed it too. Strange she should so opposed to the idea now. *shrug*

I don't disagree. But, less so because of her and more because the woman I did marry is phenomenal. I would have been happy with my ex. Of course, life would have been different. The ironic thing is that I once did a mild MFM with her, where we were all naked and my friend and I masturbated and came on her. She really enjoyed it too. Strange she should so opposed to the idea now. *shrug*

Seriously, I suspect some part of your ex -- perhaps outside her awareness -- is a bit jealous of that part of the life you have with your wife.

Barnsworth, just curious. Has your ex- married? And if she has, does her husband know about that MFM?

... people are far, far more upset about the idea of a spouse playing WITH permission than a spouse playing WITHOUT permission...

Good observation, but either way there are people who want to inflame any situation by saying, "Are you going to let HIM get away with THAT?"

My wife has advised people going through a divorce not to feel that you need to show hurt and outrage just because that's what other people expect. In one case, she's turned the ex-wife and new girlfriend into good friends (much to the consternation of the busy bodies). The marriage was over before the girlfriend, so why take anything out on her? They have even occasionally double dated, but it's a bit much for the ex-wife's date.

1. How do we maintain communication in the heat of the moment?

2. How does one best communicate they have now become uncomfortable in the situation?

 

I'm not sure what needs to be communicated if everyone's having fun. If you like, you could call over to your spouse and say, "You okay, honey?"

You should always have a safe word, something you wouldn't normally use in regular speech. We've used 'gerrymander' for example. When you hear your spouse say that, you stop immediately and find out what the problem is, correcting it if you can, both of you leaving the situation if necessary.

Everyone is having a fun until someone stops having fun. Many things we assume are intuitive simply aren't in a "crisis" situation. Its so common to read about a encounter where one partner rides out an uncomfortable situation instead of stopping play. Its a predicament almost all lifestyle couples encounter early on, but don't have to. It even occurred in the OP's story. Those two questions put the issue on the table and provides opportunity to plan for it. BTW, my wife and I use safe words as well.

Seriously, I suspect some part of your ex -- perhaps outside her awareness -- is a bit jealous of that part of the life you have with your wife.

I suppose that's possible, but knowing her as I do I think it very unlikely. She and I have remained very close since our relationship ended, years before I met my wife. We have never been able to adequately explain our relationship. We aren't (I hate to say 'just' as friendships can have great meaning) friends, but neither are we girl/boyfriend. It isn't like we're brother and sister either. I told my wife about her very early on in my relationship with her, and there's never been an ounce of concern from my wife about her. My wife and her get along very well otherwise.

Going against the general advice of this forum (friends of swingers, not swingers of friends), and after detailed consultation with my wife, I did offer to bring our relationship to physical intimacy again. So, she's had that offered to her (and rejected it).

I think what it really is is her idea of the institution of marriage being inviolable. She respects and holds that institution dear, and doesn't want to be part of something that might damage my marriage. I can understand that concern, even if I feel it extremely unlikely.

Barnsworth, just curious. Has your ex- married? And if she has, does her husband know about that MFM?

No, she hasn't. She hasn't been short of boyfriends over the years. She's really quite an amazing person. But, no, she's never married. I've never asked her if she shared that bit of soft-MFM history with any of her boyfriends. I did with my wife early on. She was a bit upset about it, and felt it was wrong. Now she enjoys it very much But, with my friend, I've no idea. I've never asked her about her sex life since we broke up.

If I understood your question, you’re concerned about what to talk about when both setting up something like this, as well as how to discuss it afterward. There are so many variations in the games played that no one answer would be right for every circumstance. For us, what we settled on is that we were in this to have fun together. As somebody mentioned earlier in this thread, too many rules tend to get in the way of having fun.

That said something took place in this threesome of yours that upset you. You kind of beat around the bush about it but it sounded to me like the fact that the other man took the assertive role in this upset you. If he did, that’s neither right nor wrong, it’s something you and your wife allowed him to do.

What you have to remember in this is that you’re both adults and in charge of what takes place. Neither of you should worry about signals, if something is going on either of you don’t like, put an end to it. You two are the host and hostess, tell him he’s worn out his welcome and it’s time to go. Your primary role in bringing another man to your bed is to keep your wife safe, let her enjoy what she wants to, but don’t let this go in a direction she, or you don’t want to take it.

Now with that being said, there was an undertone to your post, which indicated you were upset with what took place, but she enjoyed what happened. If so, there is something else you need to keep in mind about this. In all cases in the lifestyle, whatever the woman desires is usually the right way to go. If you want to have fun in a threesome, you need to allow your wife to enjoy herself. And if you need to ask if she enjoyed herself either you, him, or both of you didn’t do your job right.

As a side note, the hardest aspect of this for most men is to release their wives to enjoy themselves and not be intimidated by another man rocking their world. Don’t look at it as a competition for whose the best, look at it as a learning experience. Personally, we’ve never played with another man who rocked my wife's world in which I didn’t learn something from the experience. When you discover some trick which will blow her mind, add it to your lovemaking repertoire to allow her to experience this with you. The best of anything will get boring in time, keep it fresh with new things and you’ll both have more fun.

As far as the communication between the two of you, there are several levels of communication, and by far the most honest is the non-verbal side. If your wife gets in the car for the ride home and she has that smile, she’s all cuddly, and has that far away look in her eye, she loved what took place. On the other hand, if she gets in the car, slams the door and screams, “Take Me Home, NOW!” She probably wasn’t thrilled with it.

You're going to want to know what she thought about what took place, and she’s not going to want to tell you if it was great, so don’t ask. If she liked it, and she can trust you, she might at some point tell you what she liked most about what happened. Put yourself in her position, if you just had the best sex of your life with another woman you’re not going to tell her that. Let her actions tell you what you want to know. Remember, women are all subliminal communicators, and if men are going to understand them, we have to learn to communicate on that level.

Oh one more thing before I end this rant, you were more than a little vague about what it was specifically that upset you. If you have something in particular which upset you, or you didn’t like in your playtime, articulate that concern. I’m sure whatever it was has been experienced at one time or another by somebody on this site.

.. Too many rules can be a problem later since it's almost like you're setting yourselves up to break a rule ..

.. , the hardest aspect of this for most men is to release their wives to enjoy themselves and not be intimidated by another man rocking their world., we’ve never played with another man who rocked my wife's world in which I didn’t learn something from the experience. When you discover some trick which will blow her mind, add it to your lovemaking repertoire to allow her to experience this with you. .

That's the purpose of us playing, to have new and better experiences. Sometimes I've learned new "tricks" both by watching my wife and from other women and used them. But I've also been told by my wife that some things are not for us, they're just better suited and better enjoyed with the other guy or woman. I understand.

.............In all cases in the lifestyle, whatever the woman desires is usually the right way to go.

Not true for every man. In my 30 years in the LS I've seen too many husbands, after an mfm where they were ignored and were told by other husbands ''your wife had a great time, that's what counts, etc...''....become a bit passive, focus on her most of the time, not realizing that one of the biggest turn on for women is assertive men, men who without being rough or violent take what they want....show their passion, their desire.

So husbands in the LS who accepted to take a back seat, while they remained great life partners for their wives and were still loved lost precedence in bed and in their wives sexual brain.

A lot of men who come on threads like this one telling the OP that his wife had a blast and thats the most important thing, are actually in a dynamic where they mostly share their wife and only occasionally have sex with another woman, if ever. No need to name them, they know who they are. And thats great for them, its what they want but they forget that its their kink and should remember that a lot of men in op's situation would have told the single male it was time for him to leave and would have had a serious conversation with their wife.

The first time that we play with a new third my wife knows that I want her to get to know the new guy.

Towards that end I "play host". I join in some when I think she would benefit, and am ready to act if she seems to want me to intervene.

The second time, if he is invited back, he is informed that the in the initial experience he was treated as a guest, and that henceforth he should not be surprised if I take a more dominant role.

This works well for the two of us.

With her favorite third the two of us men have developed a well functioning team.

.. one of the biggest turn on for women is assertive men, men who without being rough or violent take what they want....show their passion, their desire..

It can be the other way around too. There's one husband and wife (not married to one another) among the circle we play with where the woman occasionally berates, dominates and beats the crap out of the guy. None of the rest of us want to see that, so they go off on their own. But it works, everyone gets what they want and goes home with their spouse happy.

It can be the other way around too. There's one husband and wife (not married to one another) among the circle we play with where the woman occasionally berates, dominates and beats the crap out of the guy. None of the rest of us want to see that, so they go off on their own. But it works, everyone gets what they want and goes home with their spouse happy.

I remember reading about a place in New York City where men could go pay to have themselves beaten by women. Whips, pots and pans, tying them up and abusing them, you name it. Some men really enjoy this (as do some women). Not my cup of tea, but if people enjoy it and no one else is being negatively affected, good for them. It sounds like that's what's happening here; something people in your group don't want to see, but the two of them enjoy it and take it elsewhere. Sounds like a good plan.

... Not my cup of tea, but if people enjoy it and no one else is being negatively affected, good for them. ..

For my wife and I and the couples who we play with that this is true in a lot of little ways. We have all learned that just because your spouse does something with someone else that is great doesn't mean it will translate well to home. But that's why we have sex with other people, to find these things and someone to enjoy them with.

For my wife and I and the couples who we play with that this is true in a lot of little ways. We have all learned that just because your spouse does something with someone else that is great doesn't mean it will translate well to home. But that's why we have sex with other people, to find these things and someone to enjoy them with.

Quite true. This very thing has come up with anal sex, though it hasn't happened yet. I'm average in length, but in the top 10% of girth. I'm just too thick for my wife to comfortable take with anal sex. We've done it, but she just doesn't enjoy it. It's hard for me to enjoy it when I know she's not enjoying it. There was one time where she started to enjoy it a little bit. That sparked discussion about what if a play partner who wasn't as thick wanted to have anal sex? She thinks she might enjoy it. I told her to go for it if it should come up. It hasn't, but if it's something she ends up enjoying with him because he's not as thick, then great!

... what if a play partner who wasn't as thick wanted to have anal sex? She thinks she might enjoy it. I told her to go for it if it should come up...!

Different reasons, but my wife has more anal with other guys than me. We do what we enjoy.

Not true for every man. In my 30 years in the LS I've seen too many husbands, after an mfm where they were ignored and were told by other husbands ''your wife had a great time, that's what counts, etc...''....become a bit passive, focus on her most of the time,

A lot of men who come on threads like this one telling the OP that his wife had a blast and thats the most important thing, are actually in a dynamic where they mostly share their wife and only occasionally have sex with another woman, if ever.

Thanks for the feed back.

I did find myself in a passive role. As mentioned early on it was our first a d we were clueless as to what we were doing. We drank to much, overly excited and didn't know what to expect.

We had a great time overall and have learned a lot about what we want and need.

I did get upset as someone mentioned. I was jealous, felt left out, and insecure. I'm good now and realize our newbie mistakes.

Moving forward we will be more assertive and selective on who is allowed in OUR space. It is for us and a third is a guest in a valuable area of our lives.

Cheers

S&N