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Sex club owner feels violated, says county wrong to deny license - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 | 2 a.m. - Las Vegas Sun

 

When swinger David Cooper moved from Roman Catholic-dominated El Paso, Texas, to Las Vegas, he figured he was going to the most open place in the U.S. for sexually oriented businesses.

Las Vegas, after all, advertises itself as the mecca for naughty adults.

But after a few years, his new hometown turned out to be, in his opinion, a den of hypocrisy.

 

 

Is this a second separate lawsuit in two months?

Know anything about this one Lee?

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There is a great deal more to this story and to the history of Mr. David then is told in that article.

 

Very long history he has and a story that most would not want connected to this Lifestyle.

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Yep, this is still going on.

 

We liked the part in open court were his attorney stated they hired undercover agents to go into all other "parties" in Vegas, wrote reports, took pictures when they could and have turned it all over to the District Attorney's office.

 

He is in the process of applying for licenses again for another place in the Commercial Center.

 

Since 2002 he has tried to open six different places. The longest lasted two months but he always makes sure he does all he can to stir the pot with the city/county/state over other places each time.

 

We shall see what happens this time. We are the ones that fought for over two years to prove their law was unconstitutional and they have not written any new law. It was because of him that we had to fight that battle last time. He is proud of the fact that he caused us to have to take on the battle last time. He has stated that to the press.

 

As I stated in years past, he is not the type that we want connected to this lifestyle.

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Lee seems to believe he "knows' the facts regarding my business activities, procedures, legal issues, and the results of the litigation I'm involved in. The fact is, Lee is wrong. He is obviously biased and he and I definitely do not share a positive relationship. I have watched him defame me for years, now it is time to make my voice heard. I will challenge anything incorrect he has to say regarding me or my business. If you would like to take me up on this Lee, I welcome it.

 

Lee certainly does not speak for the entire Lifestyle as a whole. He speaks for himself and the Red Rooster only. I have never really posted on this forum, so please excuse my nonexistent track record here. I will, however, be regular participant as I deem necessary.

 

For the record Lee, there was anew County Code (Law) enacted in March of 2011. It has never been enforced in any way. As far as the County's intentions, I cannot say or speak for them. I am still in litigation as we speak.

 

Lee and I are not friends, so don't believe everything you read when he attacks my character. Remember, there is competition at stake when he speaks. If anyone has anything ever to ask me, you may do so in this forum or contact me directly via email through my profile. Thank you.

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Lee, member since 2003. When I was looking for a Vegas club for the wife and I he specifically told me NOT to go to the Red Rooster as it wasn't what we were looking for. So far hes never said anything I find untrustworthy. For a guy "speaking" for the Red Rooster he has done almost nothing to plug his club for the last 10 years here. Long and the short is I'll trust him ;)

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This new 2011 law he speaks of we got called into court about. They tried to reopen our old case using it.

The same judge told them that "new" law is just as unconstitutional as the old one. Even more so.

 

I have not stated anything here that can not be proven with reading public records.

 

Daivd, did your attorney not stand in the 9th district court and state you and her hired investigators to go into other clubs then you guys took that information and passed it on to the D.A. and Licensing?

 

Here is the audio file if anyone wants to listen to it direct from the 9th District court. http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/media/2013/05/09/11-16900.wma

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The Federal lawsuit is based on the 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution. It provides for Equal Protection of the Law. Clark County has failed for years since 2002 to enforce their unjust law prohibiting sex clubs. I am the only person they have enforced it with. The violation is clear. If they cannot or will not enforce the law equally, it needs to go, or they need to begin to enforce it all the way around. They face a host of issues in doing either. I didn't create this dilemma. My position to the court has always been a simple one: Provide the license I applied for when I purchased EFJ, LLC (Red Rooster 3), (it had a Category 2 Restaurant License, the same current license held by the Green Door), (In the same building as the original Green Door), or create a regulated and privileged license for this industry, or close all swing clubs in Clark County and create a need for all of the clubs to fight for a legal license together or separately. Clark County had my case dismissed in the Federal court in 2010. I appealed to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, 1 level below the U.S. Supreme Court and I won the appeal in May 2013.

 

You should understand the entire story before you judge me or anyone else. Even if you don't agree with my position, that's ok. You should, however, agree with my having the same rights as Mike and Chris Borchers of the Red Rooster in being able to operate under the same laws. It's the American way. Lee doesn't like me because I stood up for myself and I had to point out to the court that many other swinger's clubs, including, but not limited to the Red Rooster were operating unabated. Personally, it is my preference that swinger's clubs should be legalized and regulated in commercial districts, not in private homes. There are many liabilities for surrounding neighborhoods when a swinger's club operates, especially to the tune of 800 people a week in a residential neighborhood. I know I would not want to live next to a home like this, same as a strip club, or a Wal-Mart. There are building codes that are mandated for public safety of the patrons that must be enforced that are not in effect in a private home that was never intended for high volume traffic. I could go on about additional, logical reasons for clubs to be in commercially zoned locations and I will if anyone requires I do so,l but I am more than happy to be cabdid about my legal case if necessary.

 

As far as Lee saying things about me, I just read an old Yelp comment he made about my business formerly located in Commercial Center saying it was out of business in only a few weeks. He failed to mention it was due to the reasons I've mentioned here. I have no problem with Lee stating his opinion if he chooses, I simply want him to tell the truth if he is going to start stating information as fact. I'm not here to attack him. I do not care for him and that is my right, but I do not have to sit idly by and allow him to make comments as to my business or family and remain silent. I would appreciate Lee making no further comment regarding my family as he has in another thread that has since been closed.

 

Thank you.

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WOW, just WOW.. sounds like sour grapes by a wanna be. "I can't have candy, so NO ONE gets any". I gotta say, you're whole beef about Lee and the law sounds like a spoiled child. Why not just handle your own problems and quit trying to drag others into it? That's just like the driver that gets pulled over and whines about all the ones the cop DIDN'T stop.. waa waa waa.

 

Having owned a successful club here, for many years, I defended my OWN position on a couple of occasions, but never EVER whined about the other clubs that weren't being harassed. I guessing this could get more pathetic, but I can't imagine why you'd want to... geez.

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First off pretty much everyone that knows me knows I don't involve peoples families in anything. I have asked Julie to find that thread you state is here and bring it back up. IF I did ever say anything disrespectful regarding your family that I apologize right here publicly to you now. That is not something I do and if I did I was wrong and out of line.

 

As far as the residential part of your post. The Rooster has been there 31+ years. That was way out of town when it was built. ALL of the property around there was zoned industrial and manufacturing at the time and up until 8 years ago remained that way. When Mike sold off all the surrounding property it was still industrial zoning. The developers had the zoning changed and built houses. EVERY house built had a notice put in the disclosures that the Rooster is there and what it is. That is required by state law that it must be disclosed. We are the ONLY House/Building on that street. No one even has to drive by the Rooster to get to their home. Since the houses have been built there has NEVER been a single event filed with the police department about anything from the Rooster by the neighbors.

 

The part that is interesting about your statement is that when you ran Plush Parties they where held in a residential home. Why was it alright for you but not for someone that has been doing it 31+ years?

 

You state you are the only one the county has gone after. I assume you forget the six times they have come after the Rooster over the years. The last time 2.5 years in court to prove their law unconstitutional. They rewrote the law and two months later tried to open our case again but got told by the judge their new law is worse than their old law and there would be no reopening a case they lost.

 

You opened a club next to the strip club and opening night you spent hours talking to me on the phone. If you disliked me that much why the call?

 

At one point the Rooster was good enough for you as it is. You spent a lot of time there and brought many guests. Mike, Chris and I just keep trying to figure out why you keep reporting things to the D.A. and trying to take us out.

 

I have no desire to piss fight with you. It is a waste of both our times. Many would just prefer you fight your battles without involving everyone else that has worked many years to keep things going in Vegas.

 

I won't be posting in this thread any longer. Really don't have the desire or need.

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Here is the post you commented on regarding my wife and family. All innuendo as far as I can tell because I still don't know what it is you were trying to imply. It is obviously wrong and I think he knows it. My wife and children have done nothing to deserve any insult on their name or character in any way. Lee was commenting on a Las Vegas Review Journal article naming my wife and girlfriend as potential casting choices for a Las Vegas Real Housewives show. Incidentally, we just filmed a show in March 2013 that later aired in June on VH1 called "I'm Married To A" and it featured my entire family and it was a positive display of polyamorous people.

 

"If anyone uses Google and checks out the "Coopers" for Las Vegas or El Paso Texas you will then understand why it is funny that "Mrs" Cooper is involved in this.

 

Checking Court records in those area's also is interesting reading for that "family".

 

Lots to the background story that is not in that article."

 

As far as parties in residential areas are concerned, I still feel the same way. That's why I don't have a business running out of a home for swingers. It's true that the rooster was there first and we did enjoy it for a while. This doesn't mean we would do it again given what I know now. I really don't have a problem with people hosting parties if they aren't for money in a home on a regular basis, especially a huge volume of people. You may not agree with me and that is your right to your opinion, just like mine.

 

I am merely addressing Lee after his posting about me and my family, as well as my business for years now. I believe I have that right. Again, I'm not attacking him. I'm involved in a discussion. We were friendly with one another at one point in time. When I said In was the only one ever prevented from doing business by the county, I am correct. The rooster has fought successfully for years and I'm glad they have on some level, but I also realize this Lifestyle needs to get out in the open for it to flourish and it cannot do it in a house. Call it sour grapes all you like. I would challenge anyone to defend their business on an Equal Protection issue if they were the only ones disallowed from doing business. Anyone here can call me anytime if you would truly lime to discuss any thoughts. If not, debate me here. This is what forums are for. If you want to talk about me, get the facts, try talking to me, as well as about me. I would afford you the same opportunity, just as I have done here. Lee is correct in saying it does us no good to be at each other's throats. I'm sure he and Mike and Chris don't like me very much because I put them in a position to defend what they're doing. I don't expect them to like it or respect my view. I cannot control their thoughts or actions. I'm sure they would do the same if the tables were turned in reverse. I don't think Mike and Chris would sit by idly and allow everyone in town to do business while they're told they can't because it's illegal.

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I know I said I was done but I want to clear up one thing.

 

Each and Every time we got called into court to defend the rights of the Rooster we never threw anyone else under the bus.

 

You can review the thousands of pages of documents from the courts regarding the Rooster and you will never find one mention of any other place or person.

 

No, we did not sit back idly but we did not bring harm to anyone else in our defense.

 

By proving the counties law unconstitutional we helped others. It cannot be used to bring anyone down.

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My take:

 

Mr. Cooper, you have been a member of this site for less than a week, Lee has been here close to a decade. And while Lee and I do not always agree, I have never known him to be less than honest and forthright. I don't have anything to base you character on beyond a a few post. I am not calling your character into question, but in that regard, Lee gets a hell of lot of benefit of doubt because he has earned it in this forum.

 

Second, on your first post to this site begin by calling Lee biased, claiming he has defamed you, but you have yet to attack the factual legitimacy of what Lee has said. You only challenged that he did not state why you went out business, and that he brought you family into the matter in a previous post. Lee did not state why you went out of business, just that you did, which appears factually correct from your own statement. As for your family, Lee did not introduce them into the previous post. That post was about an article that appears to have interviewed your wife on her attempt at getting on a reality TV show. Lee merely commented on it. A comment that could be taken any number of ways.

 

Lee has stated that you do not seem to be a person we want in the lifestyle and frankly, from what I have seen, I would tend to agree. You have legitimate grievances against the county as far as I can tell, but in your zealous defense of your rights you have managed to put every other swingers club squarely in the sights or the county for investigation. To me, that says you are more concerned about making a buck off the lifestyle than the people in the lifestyle. We in the lifestyle have enough issues dealing with government interference and community phobia without someone who is portending the be one of us creating additional witch hunts be county officials.

 

I also watched some of your interviews with Face to Face. In those interviews you clearly imply that some, if not most, people associated with clubs, other than you own, are criminals and associated with the mob. It also appears that one man, whom you stated should not be in this business because he is a convicted felon, later becomes your eventual landlord. So on one hand he should not be involved in the LS business, on the other, you appear to be okay with it as long as it benefits you?

 

You also propagate the stereotype that people who attend swinger parties are registered and unregistered sex offenders and that is who is coming into peoples neighborhoods.

 

Neither of these instances set well with me as a swinger, and I imagine I am not alone. You actions and statements are not only giving ammo to the anti-swinger crowd, but guns and bombs as well. So no, I really am not wild about having you anywhere near the LS, you are not doing swingers any good. It appears you are only out to make a buck and prove a point at the expense of people in the LS, a group you claim you trying to serve. That makes zero sense.

 

The more you post and the more I see about what you are doing, the more Lee makes sense.

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You can believe what you want to believe if it makes you feel better about your opinion of me. You don't know me and you certainly don't know what level of sacrifice I have made for this lifestyle. I will not apologize for calling the county hypocritical and naming existing clubs that are operating. It is a court of law, not a forum of opinion. Facts are necessary to win in court. As for Lee saying the Rooster never mentioned names in their court proceedings, they never had to. It wouldn't have been a defense of any kind. The reason they were mentioned in my case is simple. We needed to illustrate to the court that Clark County was allowing other clubs to operate with impunity while denying me the same opportunity. It's very clear you really don't care if I'm in business or not, so you don't seem to be concerned with the facts. If you think I'm in business for the money only, you don't know me. I'm in it for the lifestyle and I expect to make a profit from it, just like you, the Rooster, or anyone else with a business in the lifestyle.

 

Terry Gordon, the man I mentioned as someone who shouldn't be allowed in a privileged license category, he was my landlord before the interview, not after. He leases, then subleases buildings like the Green Door, Hushh Club, etc to the owners of these businesses. Terry was the owner of the building I rented when I purchased the business the County refused to re-license, even though it had been the original location for the Green Door and was operating as a sex club when I bought it. There's a lot more to this case than what you see in one Jon Ralston "Face to Face" episode. If you really care for the facts, you should immerse yourself in the case and then state opinion. I'm open to discussing the case if you want to be relevant and fair regarding the facts. If not, I'll pass.

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My opinion is just that, an opinion. It does not make me feel one way or another. It is simply my view on the subject.

 

I have always believed it best to judge people and their character based on their actions. The sum total of what I know about you I have draw from your actions in this forum, your statements in the two interviews I saw from 2008 and 2013, and the audio of the court proceedings. If you would like people to have a different opinion of you, perhaps you should take a different tack. If you don't care, then I am not sure why you bothered to come here and post "don't believe everything you read when (Lee) attacks my character".

 

The path you and your attorneys have chosen is a legitimate legal strategy. But that does not mean it is a GOOD strategy when view from beyond the court room. Your attorneys obligation is to argue the facts or law, which ever is on your side. But you, as the client, have the last say in what path they take in the matter.

 

I certainly do no begrudge anyone from making a profit in this niche market and clearly several other clubs have made decisions that resulted in them opening and operating a business in the environment that exist in Clark county. Your decisions have not had the same results. Perhaps the county wants to passively allow these clubs to operate in with a don't ask, don't tell mentally with regards to swingers clubs. Perhaps they just wanted that property or perhaps you just pissed off the wrong people. I have no idea. And, I agree that none of those are legitimate reasons to prevent you from operating a business like the other clubs. Being in the lifestyle you should understand the FACT is there is baggage that comes with participating the lifestyle, let alone running a business in the lifestyle. Part of that baggage is there are enough anti-swinger voters to cause politicians will take a stand in high profile situations in order to appease them in order to get re-elected. Unjust and hypocritical? Yes. But it is the environment in which we live.

 

In the end you chose a path that focused an an already negative spotlight on swingers in general, and more specifically, swinging clubs in your area. The FACT is your decision are putting the politicians in the position to risk re-election by approving your petition or choosing to look tough by going after other clubs. And while you may have won in court I think the getting the county to cave on your petition is highly unlikely. Instead you arguments in court boil down to "if I cannot operate a swinger club, neither should anyone else". To me it is far more likely we will see the county to go after the other clubs.

 

Best case, you have made some poor business decisions. Worst case you are throwing other swingers and clubs under the bus. None of that sounds very good for swingers, so I understand why Lee would think you are not someone we want in the lifestyle. I would attend to agree because at best it sounds like you have made poor business decisions. Worst case you sound as hypocritical as the politicians you are railing against.

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I'm not sure you understand this is an ongoing case that is in court now that I've won the appeal. It has nothing to do with whether or not the County Commissioners want to agree or disagree any longer. It will be decided by the court, unless the County decides to settle and we both agree. In the event of settlement, it could go either way. It all depends on what the evidence amounts to as to whether it motivates settlement.

 

You seem to make a case that all swingers are always going to be looked down upon by the government. I make the case for the opposite. I've had several private meetings with elected officials regarding this industry in Las Vegas. You would be surprised if you knew what has been discussed. Many don't have a problem with it and some have indicated they would rather see it legalized if it means it is fair and, more importantly, regulated to provide for health and safety in places where this business occurs. I don't want to live in the shadows and have no problem being unpopular with people who believe as you do. I will not sit back and take my lumps so others can profit and maintain the status quo.

 

It is necessary for someone to stand up and make changes so that swinging can become an acceptable lifestyle and enjoy the same protection as all other freedoms of expression. I respectfully disagree with your assertions regarding my business choices and decisions. I know you don't have and apparently don't wish to learn more information. If you choose your opinions with little information and a self imposed limitation to acquire more, it's not my issue. If you really want to debate and correspond, email me and we can talk by phone. If not, I'm ok with it either way. I chose to address Lee so he knows I will respond to all future comments should he choose to discuss me in the future. Other than this, I really have nothing to say to Lee for any reason. I'm not attacking him, only explaining where I believe he has erred.

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David Cooper said:
I'm not sure you understand this is an ongoing case that is in court now that I've won the appeal. It has nothing to do with whether or not the County Commissioners want to agree or disagree any longer. It will be decided by the court, unless the County decides to settle and we both agree. In the event of settlement, it could go either way. It all depends on what the evidence amounts to as to whether it motivates settlement.

 

I fully understand the decision in the case in question was reversed by the court of appeals. I also understand that your appeal was based the equal protection clause. I do not know the political climate or attitudes of the electorate of Clark County, but if it is anti-swinger enough, I do know that the politicians can, and most likely will, find a way to prevent you from opening. Even if it means cracking down on the other swinger establishments. Which is one of the reasons I state I do not think what you are doing is good for the lifestyle, at least not in Clark County.

 

David Cooper said:
You seem to make a case that all swingers are always going to be looked down upon by the government. I make the case for the opposite. I've had several private meetings with elected officials regarding this industry in Las Vegas.

 

Yes, private meetings. What politicians say and do in private is all too often completely counter to what they do in office. You could have agreement from 100% of the elected officials in private, some even in public. If, however, their constituents oppose swinging, I seriously doubt many, if any, will take a stand and vote in your favor. History is not on your side in the paradigm.

 

David Cooper said:
You would be surprised if you knew what has been discussed. Many don't have a problem with it and some have indicated they would rather see it legalized if it means it is fair and, more importantly, regulated to provide for health and safety in places where this business occurs. I don't want to live in the shadows and have no problem being unpopular with people who believe as you do. I will not sit back and take my lumps so others can profit and maintain the status quo.

 

Nothing about who is in the lifestyle or who does or does support it would surprise me.

 

I do not expect you to take your lumps. But the question remains, if you are being treated differently why? And what could you have done differently that would not have put you in the position to feel you needed to put other establishments in jeopardy or to go on television and paint swingers other club owners in such a negative light.

 

David Cooper said:
It is necessary for someone to stand up and make changes so that swinging can become an acceptable lifestyle and enjoy the same protection as all other freedoms of expression.

I applaud people that are willing to stand up for the lifestyle, just not the ones that imply swingers are sex offenders in a public forum or throw other lifestyle establishments under the bus to achieve their goals.

 

David Cooper said:
I respectfully disagree with your assertions regarding my business choices and decisions.

 

I understand a little about business.

Good business people make good decisions. Great ones make great decisions, which includes understanding and mitigating risk. You have spent at least 6 figures as well as several years for a business that has operated for a grand total of 2 months. An assertion you did not dispute. Had you managed your risk better and made different decision you may well now be operating in the black, rather than continuing in court. It seems like you have managed your risk poorly, or have a very strange business strategy.

 

David Cooper said:
I know you don't have and apparently don't wish to learn more information. If you choose your opinions with little information and a self imposed limitation to acquire more, it's not my issue. If you really want to debate and correspond, email me and we can talk by phone. If not, I'm ok with it either way.

 

If you wish to enlighten me with you side of the story then by all means feel free to PM you email address and you can send me anything you like.

 

David Cooper said:
I chose to address Lee so he knows I will respond to all future comments should he choose to discuss me in the future. Other than this, I really have nothing to say to Lee for any reason. I'm not attacking him, only explaining where I believe he has erred.

You have not attacked Lee? My response is your own words.

David Cooper said:
He is obviously biased ........ I have watched him defame me for years....... he attacks my character.........there is competition at stake when he speaks.

Those are words from you very first post in this community. To date each of these claims you have failed to substantiate.

 

As I said, I have no personal connection or even knowledge of Lee beyond this forum. Also, as I said, my opinion of you is not based on anything Lee has said. You have earned it by your own words and actions. If you actions in this forum are exemplary of how you act regularly, well.........enough said.

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I never implied swingers were sex offenders and you know it. You only seem to enjoy misappropriating comments and taking things out of context to suit your point. I said it was an unacceptable risk for a home in a largely populated community to serve 800 people a week. I asked the County Commissioners what they would do if a sex offender was introduced to the neighborhood where the Rooster is and later commits a sexual assault and/or murder in the neighborhood. They would have a huge public reaction and it wouldn't be positive for them. Don't worry, they didn't respond in public, only in closed quarters. If you think it couldn't occur, please elaborate. I don't need to send you anything to convince you to listen to my point of view. If you wish to continue to debate me,fine by me. It's perfectly obvious you have your opinion about me and that's your issue. I've only allowed you to contact me privately as a courtesy, not out of desperation. You watched a couple of portions of interviews, read some legal text, and read my words taking them out of context as much as possible. I personally don't care to continue in this fashion, so don't be disappointed if I choose not to engage you each time you speak. If your thoughts require me to explain,I might. I don't know you and I don't owe you. I responded to Lee as a primary issue. You and your opinion do rise to the same level of concern. Just make sure whatever you say about me is a fact, unless it is an opinion. I wish you all the best as well and you have a good day.

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I never implied swingers were sex offenders and you know it.

 

Your words

 

On club owners:

"When it is vague to whether or not is legal or it is legal or what not legitimate people tend to stay away because of the generality of that."

 

The vast majority of club owners I know are very legitimate people, as are the swingers. I do tend to avoid and take exception to illegitimate people trying to do nothing more than make a buck of the LS.

 

On owners and patrons to swing clubs:

"With criminal background checks you don’t have convicted felons holding business licenses for these of business which take away the sordid, you know, again, sordid cast of characters that participate in the operation of these business and the conduct there in"

 

Those sordid swingers that are participating in the "conduct there in".

 

On owners and patrons to swing clubs:

"They post the address on the internet where anybody, you know, can visit these places including, you know, registered and unregistered sex offenders that are coming into peoples neighborhoods."

 

This sounds like arguments we have heard from anti-swingers are regards to swingers in general. Now they have a self professed swinger saying the same thing. Yes, there sex offenders in the LS, but no more so than any other walk of life, perhaps far less. But your words can be used by anti-swingers to point at and say "look, even swingers admit they are sex offenders". Not very savy as a tactic to get people to accept swinging as legitimate.

 

I asked the County Commissioners what they would do if a sex offender was introduced to the neighborhood where the Rooster is and later commits a sexual assault and/or murder in the neighborhood. They would have a huge public reaction and it wouldn't be positive for them. Don't worry, they didn't respond in public, only in closed quarters. If you think it couldn't occur, please elaborate.

 

I absolutely know it could happen, if a swingers club is there or not. But you, as many anti-swingers do, case the question with the initial premise that the Rooster and swingers clubs, are at the root of the problem.

 

I don't need to send you anything to convince you to listen to my point of view. If you wish to continue to debate me,fine by me. It's perfectly obvious you have your opinion about me and that's your issue. I've only allowed you to contact me privately as a courtesy, not out of desperation.

 

You offered more information to correct what you see as my failure to understand and lack of desire to learn the facts. I gave you that opportunity. If you choose not to take, I will loose no sleep, but will have no reason to believe I am incorrect in anything I have stated.

 

 

You watched a couple of portions of interviews, read some legal text, and read my words taking them out of context as much as possible. I personally don't care to continue in this fashion, so don't be disappointed if I choose not to engage you each time you speak.

 

I just referencing what the public record is on your actions and comments. I would not be disappointed if you never posted again. No skin off my teeth if you do or do not post.

 

 

If your thoughts require me to explain,I might. I don't know you and I don't owe you. I responded to Lee as a primary issue. You and your opinion do rise to the same level of concern. Just make sure whatever you say about me is a fact, unless it is an opinion. I wish you all the best as well and you have a good day.

 

You do not owe me anything. Neither do I owe you, including not owing you the benefit of doubt. You have had every opportunity to refute what I and others have said here with facts, but you only want to tell me I don't understand, I am misinformed. When I accept your offer to give me more information, by email rather than phone, you refuse.

 

Perhaps it is time for me to put the troll food in the pantry.

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      My husband and I have been together for almost 10 years. I have always been bi- curious, but kept it as secret until the last month. Little did I know that he had a small feeling (thanks to a few drunk nights with my friend). Our marriage is very strong, and we are very opened with each other. I told him that I wanted to have a have sexual encounter with another female. He is on board, and we even talked about a MFM threesome as well.
       
      Here is my issue... How do I find someone? That friend is no longer a friend, I can't do dating apps because of my job, and I personally don't want someone we know. I have looked into Swinger Clubs, and I realize that finding a bisexual/lesbian female who is single is hard. We are opened to a couple if need be. I just want my husband there and or involved.
       
      My question is... What is it like going to a swingers club? Will there be people our age (27-30), are "predators" real, and how do I find a club? We are located in Washington, PA.
    • By AdamGunn2
      It was a fairly typical night at D.J.s Island, an early autumn evening. Mary and I hadn’t set anything up in advance, we’d decided to go almost at the last moment. From the second we entered the door our radar was beaming across the club, searching for a couple that might be searching for what we were also interested in - an enjoyable tryst.
       
      Mary took a few minutes to change into what she called a ‘trolling outfit.’ As I remember, that night it was a black babydoll with a loose bodice, thong, low heels. Many men admired her legs as I checked the forty or so women, many as scantily clad as my wife. None of our regular playmates seemed to be in attendance that evening, but we had our customs, we weren’t concerned. Perhaps an hour and a half later, I sat at a table next to the dance floor, Mary was on her feet, on the parquet, moving her body, seeing if anyone would move in. A slow sequence of men approached her, danced with her. Some would take liberties such as moving their hands under her garment, feeling the small of her back, perhaps place their palm on the roundness of her ass.
       
      I’d seen this many times before, I waited for one of two reactions.
       
      The first was that she’d spin away from the man; it signified she wasn’t interested in what he had to offer.
       
      The second was that she’d get closer, I’d watch her whisper in his ear. I knew the question, “Where’s your wife?” Some of them would shake their heads, they were attending as one of the few single men the club allowed, and when they received Mary’s response, they’d move away - that’s not what we were looking for at the moment.
       
      But the man might indicate where his wife was dancing a few feet away. When this kind of thing happened, Mary would glance to me and give our special signal - she’d put one hand on the back of her head, one on her stomach. When I got the cue, I’d come out, we’d dance as a foursome.
       
      As I approached, a man grasped the elbow of a tall attractive lady who was more modestly dressed, at least for the club. There was no conversation on the dance floor, the heavy volume of music and the thumping of the bass wouldn’t allow for speech. But I could tell the woman was interested in me, the four of us paired off and I often found myself facing this vixen. It was obvious they were as interested in us as I was in them, I could tell by the way Mary was rubbing against the man that she felt the same.
       
      After a couple of songs, Mary led the way off the floor, holding his hand, leading us off into a corner away from the speakers. As we sat, the man said, “I’m Ed, this is my wife, Marilyn.”
       
      Marilyn and I softly shook hands, I believe she raised the hem of her skirt to give me a view of her upper thighs. Ed had no problem seeing Mary’s legs, or where they met - she was sitting so that the babydoll was gathered to her side, leaning forward so her globes were exposed to his view.
       
      “Do you come here often?” Ed asked.
       
      “Every few weeks,” I responded, “you?”
       
      “This is our first time here.” Mary gave him a look that asked for further info. “We’re just starting this,” he admitted.
       
      Marilyn picked it up. “We’ve only had one time with a couple of friends. We liked it, heard about this place, decided to see if we could get into more trouble.”
       
      “Trouble’s our middle name,” I joked.
       
      Our conversation continued, where do you live, what movies have you seen lately, etc. It was a screen, of course, we were all calculating if the four of us would be pleasurable bedmates. I paid my attention to Marilyn, my wife had told me numerous times not to worry about her, she can take care of herself. My hand found Marilyn’s knee, she smiled at me, encouraged me to reach a tad higher. We bent towards each other, our mouths met.
       
      Marilyn opened her lips to me, the kiss was ardent, her mouth moist. She licked at my upper lip, her hand fondled the back of my neck. Our tongues clashed, promising cupidity, mimicking what I presumed our bodies might be doing in a few scant moments.
       
      We broke for a moment, Marilyn invited, “Would you guys want to go to one of the rooms?”
       
      I, of course, was all for it, but then I heard Mary. “Uh, not right now. But thanks.”
       
      We’ve always had the guideline that if one person doesn’t want to do something, she speaks for both of us. Regretfully, I pecked at Marilyn’s lips a last time, we stood, went separate ways.
       
      “You’re not upset, are you?” Mary asked me.
       
      “Of course not, not at all. You’re not in the mood?”
       
      “Oh, I’m in the mood all right, just not with Ed.”
       
      “Something wrong with him?” I asked.
       
      “I tried to get him interested,” Mary revealed, “but his kiss was a little cold, indifferent. I put my hand on his leg, he was too busy watching you and Marilyn, he never responded. My guess is that if we went into a room, he’d be watching you two, I’m not even sure he’d get hard for me.” It was a reasonable thought, it had happened to us a couple times before. “Hope you don’t mind, bet she’d have been a firecracker.”
       
      “Maybe. But you’re a firecracker too.”
       
      We headed back to the dance floor, in search of another couple.
    • By Ntexcouple
      I have posted several stories about Dee’s and my adventures in the swinging lifestyle. Then, I lost the love of my life to a drunk driver. I never knew a hurt as bad as losing the one person that gave meaning to my very soul. The first year I was just getting by, living if you want to call it that, day to day. I would wake up, go to work, come home, and sit outside drinking and feel sorry for myself. I still had friends that Dee and I had made, and they would try to get me out from time to time, but I just felt I was the odd man out, and it was more of a pity fuck than anything else was.
       
      Sue and Don were our best friends in the lifestyle, and they tried their best, but without Dee, I just couldn’t get back into it anymore. One Saturday, I was at home setting out by the pool, drinking, and, as usual, feeling sorry for myself when Sue showed up. She walked into the backyard, took one look at me, and gave it to me with both barrels.
       
      She said that Dee was dead, and as much as we loved her, that was not going to change. She is dead, and she is gone, and the way I was living my life, I might as well be dead also. Dee loved life, and she would not want me to be living like I was. She told me it was time for me to move on and start living again. After about an hour of us talking and crying, she had to get back home. I sat there the rest of the afternoon, thinking about what she had said and how true it was. Dee would not want me moping around, just like if I had been killed in that crash; I would want her to get on with her life. I set the beer down and just thought of all the things Sue had said. I called her that night and told her she was right and it was time that I started living again. She said that they were going to go to a house party the next weekend, and they had a friend that wanted to meet me. She told me her friend had seen some pictures of me, and she would e-mail some pictures of her, and if I wanted, she would fix us up for the party. I agreed, and she sent the pictures of Nancy for me to look at.
       
      The pictures she sent were of Nancy clothed, and I know the pictures of me that Sue had were not clothed pictures but were pictures of some of the parties we had been to. So she had the advantage over me in that regard. Nancy is a good-looking woman about 7 years younger than me, 5’6"/7" tall. She had blond hair and a good-looking body, from what I saw in her swimsuit picture. I called Sue the next day and told her that I would like to meet Nancy. She gave me her phone # and said she was expecting a call from me. She also said to be at their house at 6:30 Friday night, and we would all go to the party together.
       
      I called Nancy, and we talked for about an hour just to get to know something about each other. She knew all about Dee from Sue and said she went through something like that 3 years ago. Her husband of 18 years just up and left her with twin boys to raise. She had been single a little more than a year when her sons went off to college, and she decided to start living her life for herself. She was upfront and outspoken and said that she had always liked sex, but over the years, it had become predictable and ho-hum with her husband until he left. She told me that she got into swinging with a friend from work and her husband. She found that she liked the excitement of having sex with different people, both men and women, and she was not looking for a husband, just a fuck buddy. I agreed with her and told her I was not looking for a life partner but just needed to start living again.
       
      As Friday approached, I began to get nervous about going to the party. I knew several of the couples that were going to be there because Dee and I had been with them for some time or another. Even the thought of fucking Sue, no matter how many times she and I had fucked each other, made me nervous. I stopped by Don and Sue’s house Thursday night after work and told them I did not think I could go thou with it. We were sitting at their bar, and Sue told me I was just nervous about meeting Nancy. She said that I already knew most of the couples that would be there and I just needed to relax.
       
      Sue then took my hand and told me to come with her. She walked me into the den in front of the couch and undid my pants, and pushed them down to my knees. She then told me to sit down and got on her knees in front of me. She reached into my underwear and started to stroke my dick. I could feel my dick responding to her soft touch when she said to just close my eyes and relax and enjoy. With that, she pulled my underwear down to my knees and started to lick my hard shaft and balls. When her tongue left my balls and started up my shaft, her left hand would start holding and roll my balls around oh so softly. As her tongue got to the head of my dick, her right hand would start to stroke my shaft. Her mouth opened, and she took the head of my dick in her mouth and swirled her tongue around it. I had almost forgotten how hot her mouth felt when she would suck my dick or how good she was at it. She knew just what she was doing and how to please a man with her tongue, mouth and hands.
       
      I opened my eyes to watch her head bob up and down and see my dick disappearing and reappearing from her mouth. I saw Don sitting at the bar, just watching his wife suck another man's dick. This was not the first time Don has seen his wife suck my dick, but in the past, he was with Dee or any of the other ladies in our little group. If not, he was most likely helping me with Sue, either licking her pussy or fucking her while she sucked my dick. But to watch him sitting there fully dressed while she was sucking me was a little strange and comforting at the same time. I realized just how good of friends they both were.
       
      I started to feel my climax grow deep down. I guess it had been a while, and I felt a rush of heat as I started to shoot my cum in Sue’s mouth. She sucked and stroked my shaft to get all she could out. I also forgot just how horny Sue got when she had a fresh load of cum shot in her mouth. She was humping my leg like a dog, and I could feel the heat of her pussy through both her pants and mine. As I tried to catch my breath, she looked up and asked if I was relaxed now. I told her that I was, and she said good, now go home and have a good night's sleep and they would see me at 6:30 Friday.
       
      Don started to protest that I could not come over and get his wife all hot and bothered and just leave him there alone to take care of her. Sue kissed me on the cheek and said yes, he can because he will need all his strength for when she and Nancy get a hold of me the next night.
       
      I stood up and redid my pants and told Don good luck, and as I was leaving, I heard Sue tell him to get his clothes off right now. She needed a good hard fuck.
       
      Friday came, and I arrived at Sue and Don’s house at 6:30 as planned. Nancy was not there yet, but Sue told me that we were not expected at the party until 8. Sue, Don, and I were sitting at their bar talking, and I asked where was this party we were going to and they said it was at a couple's house (Dan and Barbara) who they had met about 8 months ago. I did not know them, and I asked if they knew that I was coming, and without knowing me, were they ok with that. Sue told me that they knew and were fine with it, also that Robert and Cathy, and David and Joann would also be there, and that they all had vouched for me. Sue asked if I was still nervous, and I said yes I was.
       
      Meeting a lady for the first time, as a single, would make any man nervous, much less one you were going to a swinging house party with her as your date. Who would not be nervous? But knowing 3 couples that were going to be there helped somewhat. (Robert and Cathy were the first couple that Dee and I ever played with when we got into swinging, and David and Joann were part of the group that we got together with for about 3 years).
       
      Nancy arrived about 15 minutes later, looking stunning. She wore a low-cut gray blouse and a black skirt that stopped about halfway to her knees. Dark stockings and black high heels. She stood 5’7", about 135 lbs., and had legs to die for. Blonde hair, blue eyes, great smile, and very well-gifted up top. Her blouse was cut just right so that the mounds of her tits were showing down to the top of her nipples. She had an incredible tan line that went from a dark bronze color to almost show white ½" above her nipples. She was in her early 40’s, and I started to feel very nervous again. The four of us sat and talked until it was time to leave for the party, Sue ran and got her party bag, and we all loaded up in their SUV for the drive over. Nancy and I were going to sit in the back seat for the drive over, and as she was getting in, I saw she had on black garters that were holding up her stockings; with her low-cut blouse, I already knew she was bra-less, panty-less, well only time would tell.
       
      We arrived at the party, and I was introduced to Dan and Barbara. They are a nice-looking couple, early 40’s early 50’s, like most of the couples there. I saw that Robert and Cathy were already there, along with David and Joann. With a total of 10 couples there at the time, that made it 3 that I knew and 6 plus Nancy that I did not know. (I kept hearing Dee’s words; Mingle and meet, Mingle and meet over and over in my head).
       
      The party was going along like most house parties did, with people greeting one another, some snacks, some drinks, music, and dancing. Small groups standing around talking, a lot of flirting going on. As time went by, there were more people in different stages of undressed. A couple would be seen walking down the hall towards one of the bedrooms, more couples would be going out to enjoy the hot tub on the patio. Everyone was having a good time excluding myself. I had almost forgotten how at ease one could be and how much fun it was to be around people that thought of recreational sex the same as Dee and I did.
       
      (You see someone and you say, "I would like to fuck that person" They look at you and say, " I would like to fuck that person", and the two of you get together and fuck. Both enjoy it, and that is that. Your spouse knows about it and, most of the time, is there to enjoy it with you if not joining in. No jealousies ,no hard feelings, no fights, and most of all, no means no. But in the back of my mind, I kept thinking that I am now a single man in a couple’s lifestyle.)
       
      I was talking to a couple when I looked towards the area that had been set aside for dancing, where I saw Nancy, Joann, and Barbara all dancing together. All three had shed their blouses and were giving one hell of a sexy dance performance. I knew from what I could see from her low-cut blouse that Nancy had a nice set of tits, but to see her dancing topless they were great. They were round and firm with nipples that stood out ¾". At 43 years of age, they were more than likely bought, but real or Memorex, I did not care. I just wanted to suck on them. Her stomach was flat and firm and showed that she took care of herself at the gym. She still had her skirt on, but those long legs and that flat-toned stomach just started me to think how beautiful the meeting place must look.
       
      When the song ended, Nancy walked over to me and put her arms around my neck and kissed me. She looked me in the eyes and said, let's go. I want to have you alone first, and I had no problem with that. We walked down the hall and checked the first two bedrooms and found them occupied. The master bedroom was at the end of the hall, and when we opened the door, we saw Sue and Dan had already gotten there. We started to close the door, and Dan said to come on in. There was more than enough room on the bed; he and Sue only needed half of it.
       
      Nancy put her arms around my neck and kissed me, and whispered that she wanted me naked. At this point, she started to unbutton my shirt. I felt her firm breast pressing against my chest as I ran my hands down her sides. Her skirt had no snaps but was held up by the elastic waistband. It was just a matter of hooking my thumbs under the waistband and stretching it out a little so it would slide down her long legs. Just as I had suspected, she was panty-less. As she undid my pants, I cupped one of her tits in my hand and lowered my mouth to her nipple. My other hand found her wet hot pussy, and I started to finger fuck her with ease. Her hands had pushed my pants down to my knees, and she was stroking my swollen cock with both of her hands. I could hear her breathing getting heavier with each passing moment as I sucked her nipple and fingered her sweet wet hole. She looked me in the eye and pulled my head closer to hers for a long sexual kiss. She started slowly going down to her knees, all the while kissing my chest and stomach. When she reached my now rock-hard shaft, she cupped my balls and the base of my dick in both hands and opened her mouth to take its head into her mouth.
       
      As I stood there getting this magnificent blow-job from this woman, I looked over to the bed. Sue and Dan had moved to the sixty/nine position, and Sue was sucking his cock like she did mine the night before. Dan had his face buried between Sue’s legs, licking her sweet pussy for all its worth. He had his hands spreading it as far as he could to get his tongue in as deep as he could. I remembered just how good Sue’s pussy tasted when she would come, and she always came from a good licking. I wondered just how Nancy’s pussy would taste and did she enjoy it as much as Sue. It would not be much longer before I would find out because of the way she was sucking my dick and watching Sue and Dan, I started to unload in her mouth. My first squirt was deep inside her mouth; the second one she had pulled back but had her mouth open so that it landed in her mouth but mostly on the tongue. As she was swallowing the first two loads, the third hit her closed lips and started to run down her chin. She wiped it off with her finger and then cleaned her finger with her tongue. She stood up and looked me in the eye, and said thank you, we kissed deep and long, and then I told her it was my turn. As she landed down on the bed, I removed my shoes, socks, and pants. She was on her back naked except for her garters and stockings.
       
      I laded down beside her and started to kiss her gently on the neck; slowly, I worked my way down to her nipples, where I sucked and nibbled on each one of them. All the while, I was running my fingers in and out of her hot wet pussy. Her pussy was neatly shaved with just a puff of blond hair left above it. I have always preferred a little hair left instead of an all-shaved pussy, (I wondered if Sue had told her that and she shaved that way just for me). I was working my way down to her honey pot, and she was opening her legs for me. I normally like to work a woman by kissing, nibbling, and sucking on the inside of their legs before I dive into pussy licking. That always seemed to bring their tension up a notch, so when I did go for the gold, they were more than ready for it. With Nancy having her garters and stockings on, that kind of blocked that approach. I soon found out that she did not need that step of foreplay; I also found out that she was anything but a quiet climaxer. I had no sooner started licking, sucking, and nibbling her pussy than she started humping and screaming and cumming. She was begging me to fuck her right then, I needed a little more time to recoup from my climax before I could go on, and she didn’t seem to want to give it to me. I looked from between the legs, and I don’t know if Sue saw the whipped dog look in my eyes or if she was so turned on by Nancy's pleading for a hard fucking or what, but Sue came to my rescue once again.
       
      Sue was on top of Dan, and he was hammering away at her for all he was worth. Sue leaned over and started kissing Nancy and telling her to let it come. I was still down licking her pussy and thinking, "Let this climax run its course, and things will settle down till I recover and can produce again. With Sue's kissing and sucking Nancy's tits and Nancy sucking on Sue’s tits and a double effect. Dan announced that he was coming, and I felt myself coming back into the game. As I slid back up on Nancy to where I could enter her, Sue sat back up on Dan and started riding him hard. She was about to have her own climax and needed to concentrate on that. Just as I put the head of my dick to Nancy’s pussy she said NO, not this way; she pushed me off and got on her hands and knees and said do me from behind; I like it this way the best.
       
      I have no problem with doggie style, so I got behind her and guided the head of my dick into her pussy. I normally like to start slowly, but Nancy told me to do it hard and fast. So I jammed it into the hilt. She instantly started to rock back and forth, and it took a couple of seconds to get into her rhythm, but I got there and was on the in-stroke when she was rocking back and on the outstroke when she was going forward. Like I said before, you know when Nancy comes, everybody knows when Nancy comes, and it did not take long for her to come doggie style.
       
      After she came down from her climax, her body just went limp, and she sank onto the bed face down. Ok, I understand about fast climaxes; been there and done that a time or two myself, but this is the first time I had experienced it happening with the woman I was with. Normally it’s the man that has this happening. I lay down beside her and put my arm around he, and kissed her on her shoulder. I can hear and feel her breathing hard, but that is all the response I get. I look over and Sue is still riding Dan’s dick. I see that glazed-over look in her eyes, one that I have seen many times before, and I know that she won’t last much longer. Just then, I see Dan arch his back and drive into Sue as deep as he can go, his hands are pulling Sue down onto his shaft, and I know that he is releasing his load into her. Sue is wide-eyed and tells him Yes, give it to me, and I know from being there that she has also reached her climax. I lay there and watched her rock back and forth as Dan kept his back arched to give her as much dick as he could. I know the feeling of her pussy muscles on a dick, and I know what he is feeling at this moment. They are constricting and relaxing, constricting and relaxing as she rocks back and forth. Milking every bit of his juice out that they can. I watch as they slow down, and then Sue collapses onto Dan’s chest; she starts that silly giggle that lets you know that you did a good job.
       
      Sue rolled onto her back next to Nancy and looked at me, and asked if I was enjoying myself, and I told him yes. Dan said he needed a drink and asked if any of us wanted one. Sue wanted a margarita, Nancy wanted a glass of ice water, and I said I could use a beer. As Dan was off to get the drinks, the three of us sat up in the bed, the women sat cross-legged, and I just slid up between them and used the headboard as a backrest. I could smell the must of just fucked pussy in the air. There were two women sitting crossed-legged with their pussies open for all to see, and I still had a hard-on. Sue spoke first and said to Nancy, " Did I not tell you he was a good fuck or not" At that point, I could have crawled under the bed, except that Sue was now rubbing my hard dick. Nancy agreed and said that she can’t wait to go again. Sue said that the night was young, but Nancy would just have to wait her turn now because she was next. Thank god Dan showed up with the drinks.
       
      The four of us sat there talking and sipping our drinks. We could hear the party going on in the other part of the house with the music and the occasional orgasm from one of the partygoers or another. Sue asked if we knew where Don was, and Dan said he saw him with Joann, to which Sue said, "Well, he will be occupied for a while". All this time, Sue was stroking my hard cock, then she said that it looked like I was ready to go again, and so was she. Nancy asked her if we could all do it like they did it at the last party. Sue looked at me and then back at Nancy and said that she thought it would be all right. I must have had a questioning look on my face because Sue told me that I would defiantly like this.
       
      Sue had me sit on the side of the bed with my feet on the floor. She then turned around and straddled me backward. I felt her guide my dick into her pussy as she sat down on my lap. " As exciting as the unknown is when having sex with a new partner, it is just as exciting as being in the know and having sex with someone that you have been with before. You know just what they like, and they know what trips your button; Sue knew just what to do to trip my button." She started to rotate her hips to give my dick that just-right grinding. Feeling her slow humping up and down along with the rotation was driving me insane. About that time, I felt a tongue wrapping around my balls and work up my shaft to where I was buried into Sue’s wet box. I looked around Sue to see Nancy on her hands and knees licking not only my balls and dick but also Sue’s wet pussy, and Dan was behind Nancy just fucking away. Sue started to rotate and moan, which caused me to shove up harder; Nancy was licking and sucking faster, which made Sue moan and rotate faster. It was like a snowball rolling downhill. The more it went on, the faster it got. I don’t know what was going on with Dan, and I did not care. I know that I came harder and longer into Sue’s pussy than I can ever remember doing. I remember falling back onto the bed with Sue laying on top of me and still feeling a tongue licking the both of us, and then I heard a far-off scream that said fuck me fuck yes fuck me.
       
      Sue was pulling on my arms and telling me it was time that we rejoined the party. We walked down the hall naked and into the den. We went to the bar, and I sat down on one of the stools. Sue went and got us both a drink and stood between my legs with her arms around my neck. She asked me what I thought of Nancy, and I told her that she was definitely different than any woman that I knew. She said that there was a long story behind that and she would tell me later, but not tonight, I laid my head down between her breast, and she was holding me and rubbing the back of my head when Don came walking up to join us.
       
      Don sat down on a stool, and Sue went over and put her arms around him and asked if he was having fun; I said that he looked like he had been road hard and put up wet. To which he came back with a one-word answer. " Joann". Sue and I just laughed, and I asked if she was still a whirlwind in bed, and he said that she was a man killer if you let her.
      Sue kissed us both and said that we men better get used to the whirlwinds because they are going to rule the world someday.
       
      Note from Jay:
      I have tried to express some of my feelings, thoughts, and happenings into the stories about how I got back into swinging after Dee’s death. I know that it is not your typical swing stories that you are used to reading here. I know that I have brought up couples out of the blue for those that have not been on this site for very long. There are stories posted by " Jay and Dee" that tells how we got started in the swinging lifestyle, how we found out that Don and Sue were swingers, and stories that were milestones in Dee’s and my journey into this wonderful lifestyle.
       
      A lifestyle that I thought had ended with Dee's death. A lifestyle of freedom, pleasure, understanding, and pure joy that I thought I would never be a part of again if it were not for Sue. Some might read into these stories that I have an infatuation with Sue. That is not true. I love Sue. If you go back and read The Surprise, you will know that I have known Sue since we were in elementary school. Her older brother was my best friend until we graduated high school; now, her husband is my best friend.
       
      If it were not for Sue and Don standing by me and pulling me out of my depression, getting me back into not only the lifestyle but life itself did I meet Pam.
       
      Pam is another story all together
       
      I lost Dee in 2004, and the stories about how I got back into the swing happened in 2006. In future stories, I will try not to go back too far into the past, but sometimes my thoughts go there, to a time, a place, or a person that is so important to me that I must bring it up for the story context.
    • By Spoomonkey
      I don't remember - in detail - just what it was that was said between myself and Marilyn that convinced her to swing. I know that I didn't discover the hidden key to the floodgate. But now, as I sit here thinking of her, picturing the passion on her face as she jerks another man's cock, I am flooded with excitement about the next time. But this is a story about our first time.

      Most people are sexual caterpillars, humping through life, eating off the same leaf, and waiting to be taken as lunch by whatever bird it is that finds us delectable. Some of us evolve. I've had the pleasure of watching Mari become a truly stunning sexual creature - a truly amazing phoenix on fire. I recall the long and sometimes frustrating 'raccoon stage' from the first talk to the first play. I remember waiting like a child for Christmas - eager and smiling, hopeful and naive. And I remember watching Mari emerge.

      It was a Friday night - our second at a club. I am not sure how many expectations either of us had - we'd promised ourselves not to 'expect.' We arrived early - when the TVs had not yet flipped over to porn movies and still played the Discovery Channel. Pretzel baskets not yet out, Mari and I found a place at the liquor-less bar. Our first time at a club, we went with a couple that we were friends with. They'd monopolized us that night, and we wanted to branch out - to meet new friends - to try new things. Nothing against them, we thought the world of those two, but we were ready to fly solo. So we waited. Unsure of how to talk to anyone - unsure of what to do next. I think we clung to that bar for an hour, Mari in her brown mini and sheer black top, me in a stew of nervousness that I hadn't felt since junior high. Eyes were on Mari - I could feel that. Not at all unexpected with her long legs riding a lucky barstool, gorgeous and generous breasts threatening to pour from her low top, bright green eyes dancing between a perfect smile and brown/red hair that could melt any man. I remember watching people watching us, watching them stare shamelessly at her.

      The club filled quickly that night - couples made their way to familiar cliques as a flood of single men made helpless attempts to get in on the play. I didn't know what we were looking for, but I was hopeful that we'd find it - so I took Mari by the hand and decided to explore. The barstools were doing nothing but putting our backs to the crowd. I wasn't surprised when a clumsily discreet gaggle of singles followed my Mari like puppies as we slowly made our way from room to room. Eventually, we found ourselves on the 'party floor' with a half dozen single men who tried so very hard to look casual but were obviously hoping that their choice of clothes or hairstyle had been the perfect one - and that Mari would snatch them up before they knew what hit them. Feeling a bit ornery, I leaned back against the wall, my beer in one hand, and whispered to Mari, "I want you to go down on me." I think the request shocked her a bit.

      "Right. Right now? Right here?" I could tell that she was feeling like a bad girl - she had the look, the walk. I knew she wanted to play - and I could think of no better way than to tease a crowd of men.

      "Yes," I said, smiling. "Right here and right now." I reached down to unzip myself as she dropped to her knees in front of me. My cock had been hard all day, knowing that tonight we'd be here - chasing the 'unexpected' - and it was obvious that Mari shared my excitement as she took me all the way down with one eager move. Her tongue danced on my shaft as her head bobbed happily. Her expert hands worked on what little cock she couldn't take in, and twelve eyes on six single men ate every movement. I was - for a short time - king of the 'party floor' as the most incredible woman in the club sucked my cock in front of a half dozen. I realized that as incredible as this was - this spotlight on my wife's giftedness - it was just the first step, a cracking of the egg, so to speak - the cocoon was just starting to open. Mari gobbled me with abandon, surprisingly unashamed, wonderfully aware of nothing but her husband's eager erection and approaching release. I sipped my beer and grinned as hungry eyes locked on the back of Mari's head. I could have watched that scene all night long, but it was far too early to 'cash in my chips.' Besides - I got to take this beauty home - so I helped her to her feet as she wiped the corners of her mouth. I think I saw a blush then, but it could have been desire. Either way, it didn't slow her down. I was ready to head downstairs and leave this group to their own devices, but a conversation about something - I don't remember what - kept me in place.

      Mari was approached by a single guy, and I remember thinking that it would be good for her to flirt. So - I turned my attention to whatever meaningless banter I was sharing - and left Mari to her fun. I don't know how long I talked - but I remember turning to look at Mari and the one guy with balls enough to approach her. And was surprised to see them kissing deeply, his hand enjoying her perfect breast. I processed a momentary jealousy. Who wouldn't be jealous of a woman as beautiful as Marilyn? What man in his right mind would offer such a perfect woman to the wiles of desperate single men? The kind of man who is so secure in his soulmate's love that he knows that no one will ever touch her heart just by groping her boob. And with that, I was over it. And my wicked smile returned.

      "Do I need to go get supplies?" I asked as I walked up behind Mari.

      "Hmmm?" She asked, somewhat dreamily, obviously ready to try her first threesome.

      "Supplies. Condoms." I said, trying not to kill the moment.

      "They're downstairs." Mari looked at her new friend, David, who was obviously willing. She smiled and nodded.

      "Okay," I said. "But here are the rules while I'm gone." I have an alpha male personality when it comes to swinging - provider, protector, top dog. "Just talk. No hands - no kissing - while I'm gone." Then I looked at David. "Break a rule, I break an arm." I think he knew I meant it.

      His nervous, stuttering, "Sure," gave me the assurance I needed to head downstairs. I didn't remember the walk to the locker room being so long, but the anticipation seemed to stretch the halls and stairways. But soon, I was back with an overly optimistic fist full of condoms and a hard-on that made it hard to walk. David and Marilyn were talking innocently, leaning against the wall - but seeing me was all it took for talk to end. Mari took David's hand and led him to a private room; I pushed the door closed as we entered, waving at the five guys who looked disappointed that we weren't going to put on a show.

      David wasted little time pulling Mari's breasts free and sucking on her long nipples. His style was rough, but Mari seemed to love the feel of this stranger's tongue and gently nipping teeth. I knelt behind her, pushing her skirt around her hips, and flicked her ass with my tongue. I slipped two fingers in her dripping pussy and felt her body jerk at the anticipated intrusion. Her hips rocked against my fingers and tongue as David pulled off Mari's top and bra, spilling her breasts into his hands and waiting mouth. Mari rubbed David's cock through his slacks, eager to find out just what she'd gotten herself into. Our collective passions blurred the room as hands un-hooked, unzipped, un-buckled, and soon the only clothes left were Mari's black garter and stockings. David had taken to his knees, taking his rough style of play to Mari's tender box as Mari resumed the head we'd started in the common area - her passion making her suck even harder, with more abandon. I thrust into her mouth gently, knowing that in her current state, she couldn't focus enough to keep me from going too deep. I watched her perfect tits roll as her body rocked on David's aggressive tongue. I switched places with David, letting him enjoy Mari's mouth for the first time. Mari gave a perfect, eager head, and I knew David was in for a treat - but I wanted my time with my wife's perfect pussy. Her long lips and deep folds are the perfect play place for big boys, and my tongue traced her outer lips through the gentle maze that leads to her dripping entrance and tingling clit. I slipped my fingers inside of Mari, curling them gently to find that magical-mythical spot that always seems to make a good orgasm a screaming one, and my tongue flicked gently at her oh-so-ready clit. I looked up to see David fucking Mari's mouth - and Mari thrusting back hungrily. I heard her cock-filtered moans as I brought her to the brink of orgasm. I quickened my tongue and my inner stroking, and Mari's mouth popped off of David's shaft. Her fist pumped him purposefully, but her eyes and attention were now focused on my face, pressed against her pussy. Her hips bucked with the beginnings of her orgasm, and her moans turned to screams as she came against my tongue. Mari fucked my fingers powerfully, her pussy sucking and pulling them deeper inside, and she threw her head back into the pillow and let out a long "YES!" as a wave overcame her.

      David knelt beside her, a stunned look on his face. "That was hot." Mari laughed at his grasp of the obvious as she pulled her knees together and her legs up - but we weren't going to let her off that easily. "Be gentle," I said as David went back down, and I brought my throbbing cock to Mari's mouth. I've always loved the way that Mari says thanks for a job well done - and tonight was no exception. David's tongue brought Mari over the edge two more quick times as she sucked my cock. Her body shivered weakly as the first orgasm had taken so much out of her. She moaned around my width but never let me go until her desperation got the best of her.

      "Fuck me." She said, her voice breathy, "Fuck me, please." I took her first, as David's cock hung in Mari's face, rubbing against her cheek as she thrust her body back against me. I pushed her legs to her chest as I buried my cock deeply into her. Her heat was tremendous, her body on fire as it lived out a fantasy it was so reluctant to even admit. David watched as I took my wife hard, thrusting deeply and angling my body to hit her just right. Mari gritted her teeth as she let out a strained moan, her fourth orgasm coming as a surprise - short but powerful. I pulled out quickly, knowing that there was one other thing that Mari wanted to try before we'd be able to call this a night. I lay against the wall as Mari got to her knees. She sucked hard as David pushed into her for the first time. It was her first 'extra' cock, and she seemed to shake from head to toe. "Is he in?" I asked, wanting her to process the reality of this moment. "Mmmm-Hmmm," she groaned as he pounded her. David fucked my beautiful wife hard from behind, thrusting deeply and quickly, racing towards an orgasm that had such a gorgeous build-up. And he reached that place far too quickly.

      "Where do you want him to cum?" I asked, stroking Mari's hair. "I want to see it," she said, her tongue flicking the head of my cock. "I want him to cum all over me." David responded to her wishes, pulling out and removing his spent condom. Mari rolled over on her back, pushing her breasts together and urging him to cover them. He had no problem doing so. David's excitement was apparent as jet after jet of his hot load landed on Mari's perfect tits.

      "Oh, god, yes," she cooed as he came. David let out one last grunt as his body jerked, and one last long stream of cum dripped onto my wife. I kissed Mari - realizing that I had seen her emerge. My perfect butterfly, covered with another man's seed. David collapsed at the end of the bed as Mari and I wrapped our hearts tightly around each other. We basked in the afterglow of an incredible fantasy, unaware that, for us, the night was young. We dressed, David and Mari kissed one last time, and then we left the room for the next adventuresome group.

      We fully expected to leave soon thereafter. Instead, almost unbelievingly, the stars aligned, and we had another encounter.

      Mari went to the bar, still sexily disheveled, and started talking to a single woman that we had met earlier, helping her fend off a torrent of attention, gladly taking on some for herself. Knowing she was having fun, I left her alone while I went to the restroom.

      I normally don't strike up conversations at the urinal, but all rules have exceptions.

      "I'm not gay," I said to the guy spilling beer one stall over, "but that is a really nice shirt."

      I wouldn't have said it if I hadn't meant it. Dark blue flames on white silk. Sharp as a switchblade.

      "Thanks," He said. "My wife bought it. I don't remember where."

      "Well - it's a great-looking shirt."

      The conversation eroded as our bathroom purposes came to an end, and we awkwardly took turns with the soap dispenser. He left before my paws were dry, and as I wiped the last of the evidence on my jeans, I walked out to put what I thought would be the final hit on my wife.I was quite wrong.

      Mr Nice Shirt was in the hallway with a gorgeous blond - tall and thin, with stunning blue eyes and long legs on high heels.

      "Hey, hon." he said, "where did you get this shirt? This guy likes it."

      She told me - but hell if I remember. I was captivated by her. Where she bought the shirt went in one ear and out the other, but her, I was drinking in till I reached the bottom of the glass. It was a nice shirt - but she was significantly nicer. I watched her lips as she talked and wondered what they tasted like; I watched her chest when she paused - also wondering what it tasted like. Soon the shirt was forgotten.

      But - I found out later - they thought I was a single, which wasn't their thing - and they excused themselves. I made my dejected way back to Mari - still with her single friend - still at the center of a crowd. I walked to the center and kissed her hard, because I could, and whispered in her ear, "Are you ready to go?" She nodded and told me she needed to check her hair before she did. I wasn't the only one who watched her walk to the restroom - perfect hips massaging the inside of her brown suede skirt. I sat at the bar, watching what passed for porn on the satellite feed, and waited...And waited...And realized I wasn't enjoying the porn enough to not be worried about my wife...I wandered through the club, weaving my way between connections being made and broken - singles getting lucky or rejected - women being fondled or ignored... The witching hour had arrived, and folks were grouping off with the hopes that productive conversations weren't about to produce wilted results. And in the bathroom door, Mari had become the target of Mr Cool-Shirt and his incredible wife. They stood in a tight but respectful group, chittering like old friends... I watch Mari laugh at some witty thing and then look up to see me walking her way.

      "That's my husband," she said, maybe a bit too proudly, and the blond woman whom I'd already memorized turned and smiled - wickedly surprised if that is a workable combination. A three-way conversation in the door of the women's room became a spirited four-way as we realized that - not only was I, not a single guy, we all had much more than that in common; two pairs of soulmates on different planes of experience. Best friends who do everything together - who were about to drift upstairs...

      They had been to many clubs and had much background in the lifestyle, and as we made our way upstairs, they shared themselves in a way that makes the lifestyle so much more than sex. We drifted from room to room, listening to them talk about their "hobby" and how they survived within it. For a moment, the idea of "playing" with our new friends disappeared as these gorgeous people became so incredibly fascinating. It seemed like every line of conversation revealed more in common, more useful advice, more to like...And then she closed the door...

      "I like you guys," Kim - this gorgeous blond said, her voice going from friendly to lusty. "Let's play."

      Mari and I snapped back to reality quickly. We were in a swing club, and we were not going home anytime soon... I didn't need to look at Mari to know that she was okay with this. I'd watched her as she watched Joe's lips move when he talked. I had seen her smile when he touched her shoulder. And I had absolutely nothing to think about as Kim lay on the bed, smiling and lifting her legs to show a shaved and pantiless play area.

      "What do you say?" She asked, staring at me hypnotically.

      Nothing... There was nothing I could say. I was hers - but better yet, she was about to be mine. Joe sat on a chair in the corner of the room - thinking, I suppose, that he might watch for a while. But Mari was having none of that, straddling his lap and wrapping her tongue around his. Kim lay on her back, and I ran my hands down her legs, lifting her feet and helping her with the boots that she wasn't going to be needing for a while. Her long thin legs were, on their own, plenty to enjoy - but when the boots were shed, my hands wandered higher as I slid onto the bed with her, kissing her gently at first - enjoying her soft but expert tongue. Her hands made short work of my belt as mine found her small, tight breasts. She seemed eager to catch up with Mari, who had quickly moved to a kneel in front of Joe and was blowing him madly - her head bobbing furiously.

      I didn't object and let her push me over to my back. My eyes caught Joe's, and he smiled widely, dazed but certainly feeling every stroke of Mari's expert tongue. Mari worked his shaft with one tight fist and had pushed the blue flamed shirt up to his strong chest. She was moaning around him - and he encouraged her. The sounds were nearly as hot as the visual of my beautiful wife gobbling our new friend with such abandon. I could have lost myself watching the two of them, just experiencing the pleasure my wife was giving another man, but I was soon pulled expertly out of the moment as bright blue eyes looked up at me past short blond hair, and a wet tongue flicked between a wicked grin and eagerly tasted the tip of my cock...I looked down at Kim as she rolled her tongue around the head of my cock, seeming to savor the taste. Her eyes locked on mine, and her smile never failed......until she took me into her mouth, slowly swallowing half of me and then pulling me out just as deliberately. I groaned, body twitching and cock responding to her attentions.

      "You like that?" she asked, a trail of my excitement still leading to her lips.I just swallowed and grinned - and she correctly took that as a "yes". Her eyes finally left mine as she took me again, this time with abandon. Her tongue danced around my cock as her lips tightly massaged my shaft. Her hands jerked me and my hips rocked slightly, finding her manic rhythm. I closed my eyes and enjoyed her expertise, my fingers twisting in her short hair. I could feel her taking me deeper until it seemed the head of my cock was so deep in her that I could almost feel it with the hand that was on the back of her head. Her warmth was complimented by a perfect wetness. She stroked me with one hand as her other hand massaged my balls - coaxing my cum from them - eager for a taste of her good work. I heard a squeal and looked up just in time to see a naked Mari tossed onto the bed beside us. Joe was naked as well - his tall, thin frame sporting a desperate erection. He dropped to the bed between Mari's legs and began to kiss her breasts, one after another, commenting loudly on her large, long nipples. Kim was looking over, obviously admiring them herself. She looked up at me, her lips still around my excitement, her face flushed. I smiled at her and nodded - unable to ask her if she wanted what Mari was about to be getting... Somehow she read me and nodded back - letting me go with a gentle pop - and climbed up on the bed, shedding what little clothing she still had on. I pulled off my shirt and settled between her legs.

      The wives were now on the bed, lying side by side, with two enthusiastic husbands now heading south hungrily. Kim's pussy was perfectly shaved with small lips and a perfect clit. I licked gently at first, tasting her fully... This was the first pussy I'd tasted since my marriage, and I was going to enjoy it fully. I slipped my hands beneath her ass to lift her slightly, angling her just right... And sunk my tongue deeply into her, tasting her as she tightened around the intrusion. She whimpered slightly and bucked - and I lost myself... My fingers swam in and out of her as my tongue found every unique spot that seemed to make her jerk with electricity. Her eyes were clamped shut as I ate her, and her hands gripped my head harder and more desperately, soon governing my attentions to just her clit as she climbed higher... Closer to the edge of orgasm. I heard Mari scream as she came, thrashing her hips forcefully against Joe's face, forcing him to hang on... Kim heard her, too, and seemed to catch Mari's orgasm just as Mari was coming down... One loud "OHH!" was all she moaned as her body spasmed beneath my feasting tongue. She jerked hard, holding my face tightly to her and riding her orgasm out against my tongue. I held her thighs as she began to land. She slid her hands to my cheeks and pulled herself to me. "My god," was all she said before she kissed me and pulled me back to the bed.

      Joe was on top of Mari, thrusting his fingers into her roughly, and Kim held me as we watched Mari cum again. Mari's vocal aerobics shook the walls again as she came a second time, right on top of her first one. She seemed to cum for minutes before she finally stopped thrusting her hips against Joe's aggressive hand.

      "Wow," Kim said, looking at me. "Is she always this loud?"

      "I'd like to think so," I replied, smiling.

      "I have no doubt, then."

      Kim grinned as she kissed me, pushing me to my knees. She crawled in front of me and took me in her mouth again, egging me on to thrust. I did so - watching as Mari laid Joe on the bed and then knelt between his legs again. I grabbed Kim's perfect ass with both hands and pushed forward gently, barely containing my arousal as Mari began to stroke Joe's thick cock.I heard Kim sucking me wetly, accepting my thrusts as Joe moaned with approval as Mari gave him a masterful hand job, puckering her lips around the head of his cock as she stroked him. My head swam for ten minutes, watching my wife and feeling Joe's. I was near the edge when Joe screamed out his arrival. Kim flipped around quickly, eager to watch her husband's pleasure, and slid a hand down to cup his balls just as he erupted. His first shot a foot into the air. Mari moaned, "YESSS!" as he came - excited at the sight of his orgasm. His hips thrust slightly as the rest of his orgasm ran down his cock and over Mari's still-pumping fist.

      He lay there - satisfied - and Kim turned, grinning, back to me. The only difference is that this time - so did Mari. I had four lustful eyes looking at me hungrily, and I knew that one of my favorite fantasies was going to come true. I was pushed back into the pillow and watched as a blond and brunette devoured my cock - neither of them losing steam. One would suck my balls while the other pistoned on my hot shaft - then they'd switch - dancing their tongues up either side of me as they went... "This is a vision you'll never forget," Joe chattered - coming back to his senses. I quietly agreed with him, watching as they pleasured me - unable to drink it in enough. Just the sight was enough to make me cum... The sensation of two talented tongues, two eager mouths, brought me closer to the edge than I ever thought possible... Joe seemed to agree, now standing at the side of the bed stroking a resurrected erection. But - I was the first to see them kiss...And it was almost too much... Kim and Mari's tongues soon discovered each other and left my cock to pursue each other. I was remarkably okay with that. Kim and Mari's passionate lip lock was more than Joe could handle.

      "Oh my god," he said to Mari. "I had no idea you were into that."

      "I wasn't," Mari said truthfully - and then quickly returned to what she swears was one of the best kissers she'd ever known. I joined Joe in the perverse ritual, not caring if they ever touched me again - as long as they didn't stop touching each other. Their hands fondled each other, their tongues twisted together... And the room seemed to heat up by twenty degrees.

      I'd never thought I'd see my wife so wild for another woman, but there they were, wrapped together, making out like high school kids. The scene proved to be too much, and Joe yelled out Mari's name. Mari moved over beneath him, her tongue out and eager, just as Joe came again. If it is possible, his second orgasm seemed larger than his first, streaming into Mari's open mouth in jet after jet. And that was enough for me... I knelt over Kim and let go of her waiting tongue. She excitedly swallowed what she caught - what she didn't streamed down her cheeks as I jerked out the last of my orgasm and collapsed beside her...I remember Joe leaving and coming back with a glass of pop for all of us to share, but for the life of me, I don't remember much else. We all lay together for a while - talking again like old friends and laughing. The biggest difference this time was being able to watch breasts jiggle with every well-told joke or story.

      We exchanged e-mails, hugs, and kisses... But I wasn't offered the shirt...When we finally left - the club owner was cleaning up, barely beating the sun, which would be showing itself soon. One of the staff smiled at us and said somewhat meekly, "You guys sounded great." I suppose she's right - a perfect encounter inspires some wonderful loudness. The night was a surprise from the start - we'd done more than we'd ever expected and made friends on top of it. And it was one of those friendships that inspired me to surprise Mari with one last step in her now complete emergence.
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