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This thread made me finally have to say something...

 

I am no "Ken"...

 

I think Mrs Spoomonkey is a brunette "Barbie", but I will admit to a strong bias...

 

However, why are "Ken & Barbie" so vilified? I mean - what did they do wrong? Physical attractiveness is not like kicking a puppy... Being "hot" doesn't mean you poke old ladies in the eye and take their welfare check... Having sculpted abs and bedroom eyes doesn't mean you're the devil incarnate...

 

But for some reason, everyone seems down on "Ken & Barbie". And I just don't get it...

 

As a couple, we exercise regularly (irregularly when the weather sucks), eat right (with the exception of holidays and after club munchie runs) and generally pay a lot of attention to our appearance. This is something we do for - SHOCK! :eek: - us...

 

We like the way we feel when we do it - and, honestly, we like the way we look... I imagine - trying to put myself in the head of "Ken & Barbie" - that they do it mostly for the same reasons we do.

 

Attractiveness isn't some sort of malady that renders a person soul-less... In fact, it is just as likely that an attractive person will have a great personality as someone who is less attractive.

 

So fill me in, please... Why are they the bad guy?

 

I know personality is important... Without it, there just isn't anyone hot enough to play with for me... But when I look across the room, I can't see your personality. But should I automatically look with suspicion on "Ken & Barbie"?

 

And if I keep working on my appearance, will this eventually bite me in the ass?

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Just like lots of dolt-ish single males ruin things for the "good" single males, hot but evil Kens & Barbies ruin it for the hot and nice Kens & Barbies.

 

I say right in my profile that Ken and Barbie are certainly welcome... I liked them (and played with them) a lot when I was a youngster! But they'll need to be deeper than the kiddie pool and open to getting to know lots of different kinds of people.

 

Some Kens and Barbies are just like any other folks... down to earth, there for a good time, look at the "whole package", etc. But fact of the matter is... lots of Ks&Bs are just down for meeting other Ks&Bs... to them "their type" is the only sexy thing out there.

 

Too bad for them, I say. Sexy comes in all kinds of wrappers.

 

The flip side of the coin, of course, is that non-Ks&Bs (Fred, Wilma, Dan, Roseanne and the rest of us) sometimes have an inferiority complex about themselves and won't risk rejection by coming on to K&B first. Then you have the "hot girl stays at home with no dates, because everyone is afraid to ask her out" syndrome.

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Dynamar said:
But fact of the matter is... lots of Ks&Bs are just down for meeting other Ks&Bs... to them "their type" is the only sexy thing out there.

 

We were actually invited to a club once and the invitation included "there are more of 'our type' of people there."

 

While flattering that we are supposed to have an "our type of people" we realized that people who use the term "our type of people" probably aren't "our type of people". So I hear what you are saying...

 

Anyone, wrapped in a cloud of arrogance, completely loses any "hotness" they might otherwise have...

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Spoomonkey said:
While flattering that we are supposed to have an "our type of people" we realized that people who use the term "our type of people" probably aren't "our type of people". So I hear what you are saying...

 

Anyone, wrapped in a cloud of arrogance, completely loses any "hotness" they might otherwise have...Spoomonkey

 

I think you hit it right on the head there Spoomonkey. From our experience this is what we find. Since we are Mr. & Mrs. Average and could stand to lose 10-15 pounds each, the Ken & Barbies we have met at clubs judge just by looks. Do they make even the slightest effort to get to know us? No. One glance and the nose goes right up. We are not "Their type of people", whatever that is supposed to mean.

 

I know that everyone has their preferences but as I was said in the other post, there are a lot more important things that we look for than just the looks.

 

Not that there aren't some Ken & Barbies who are nice, regular people who have just been lucky to be blessed to be Ken & Barbies. It's just that we haven't met them yet. Maybe one day. Until then, we are more than happy to meet the other nice Mr & Mrs. Averages out there.

 

If there are any fun, nice K & B's here in Las Vegas who would like to meet a fun, nice average couple and see if the sparks fly, give us a hollar.

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Too bad for them, I say. Sexy comes in all kinds of wrappers.

 

I've been asked what is my preference plenty of times. I honestly don't have one though. So you're not a supermodel. If you have a good/great personality you get my interest. More for me I guess. I think Capt. Kirk was on to something. Some people will always be superficial. Those people just aren't for me and my SO.

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lcjtsd said:
the Ken & Barbies we have met at clubs judge just by looks. Do they make even the slightest effort to get to know us? No.

 

What we have found is that the Ken & Barbies at our clubs are either:

 

  1. Only interested in looking at themselves in the mirror
  2. just as scared of you as you are of them

 

We are not a bad looking couple - and we have been surprised at how many people at our club think we aren't interested in them without even saying a word to us.

 

For the longest time, we didn't talk to them because we were new, insecure, nervous and figured they wouldn't want to talk to us...

 

Then we got brave...

 

And guess what!

 

We found out that a lot of people sort of wrote us off as a "K&B" type couple - assuming we were stuck up because we were afraid to talk to them. I think you'd be surprised - a lot of those "stuck up" couples really have no idea what to say to you...

 

Granted - there are plenty of couples who really are sort of full of themselves, but you should never assume. We've learned that some of the best experiences happen because we "dared" to talk to that couple we thought was way over our head...

 

In fact, one of those couples - that we thought would run screaming away actually told us that they were afraid to approach us because they didn't think we'd like them...

 

You can't expect people to be forward with you just because they're attractive. Believe it or not, some of those folks are sitting there, looking at you, afraid to make that first move - just waiting for someone to be nice first...

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A few years ago there was a swing club here in Atlanta that actually required potential members to submit photos of their drivers license along with full body clothed and nude photos to a board to be voted on prior to being given the address of the club. If I remember correctly they were exclusively for the 18-35 year olds and advertised specifically for "people like us". I haven't heard anything about them in several years so I assume they went the way of the do-do. My attraction to someone is total package based and while looks are important they ain't everything. He says he can find something attractive about anyone.

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Since we are Mr. & Mrs. Average and could stand to lose 10-15 pounds each, the Ken & Barbies we have met at clubs judge just by looks. Do they make even the slightest effort to get to know us? No. One glance and the nose goes right up. We are not "Their type of people", whatever that is supposed to mean.

This whole post makes me sad.

 

It's just as wrong to assume that all pretty people have terrible personalities and that all average people all have great personalities...

 

...as it is to assume that older couples are all cheesy mulleted hot-tub rompers and younger couples are all drama-filled newbies who can't possibly be secure in their marriage, and single men are all just about to rape someone, and all black men have 13-inch cocks and swingers with kids must be boring and... is the point getting made yet?

 

Stereotyping is stereotyping. Being the victim of stereotyping is not permission to start perpetrating it on others.

 

Mr. SSQ and I are a straight-up Mr/Mrs. Average-Looking. We have played with every single type on the attractiveness spectrum. There are great people, and there are assholes, in every category. Ken and Barbie do not have the lock on arrogance, elitism, or ignorance, and I'll tell you that for free.

 

lcjtsd, I don't mean to sound dickish, I really don't -- but this:

 

I know that everyone has their preferences but as I was said in the other post, there are a lot more important things that we look for than just the looks.

...is a perfect example of my statement that K&B don't have a lock on elitism. I don't see why it's acceptable to imply that your preferences (i.e. which do not include looks) are somehow better or more noble or more "important" than someone else's which happen to be based on looks.

 

At the end of the day, this is all about sex. What turns one person on isn't always what turns on another. For me? it's a big fat brain, and confidence + charm, and that ain't nothin' you can get just by going to a gym. Work those and you can pretty much be Quasimodo, as far as I care. But I respect that other people care more for rock-hard abs and a porn-star ass. Different strokes, you know?

 

But I don't look smugly at those who do filter for rock-hard abs and a porn-star ass. I wish them luck. Thank heavens there are enough swingers in the world that they can have what they want and I can have what I want.

 

(end rant, sorry)

 

Now, to change sides:

 

The two problems I have had with Ken & Barbie types are --

 

1. Having preferences is fine, snubbing is not. When beautiful people literally cannot have a conversation at a party or a club because they are actively snubbing anyone who isn't equally as beautiful, then they are ruining the atmosphere for me. It's a junior-high behavior borne out of a lack of self-esteem, which is quite unattractive... but worse, it's what turns perfectly nice venues into meat markets.

 

edited to clarify after Spoo's cross-post: I don't presume that any K&B who aren't socializing must be snubbing. I mean, you join a group, say hi to your friends, introduce yourselves to the new couple, they both give a blatant visual onceover on your physique, and then are immediately looking to meet someone else, can barely even get out "nicetomeetyou" before their eyes are roaming for someone hotter. It's happened to us and I see it happen at parties/clubs all the time. I find it quite sad.

 

2. Focusing on looks to the exclusion of any other trait almost always indicates an underlying conceit that will manifest in jealousy issues, popularity contests, and materialism. That's been my experience 100% of the time. So, people who care about looks but don't care about intelligence are always going to be a no for us.

 

But, I can freely say that it doesn't make them bad people... just not my type.

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sweetshyquiet said:
Focusing on looks to the exclusion of any other trait almost always indicates an underlying conceit that will manifest in jealousy issues, popularity contests, and materialism. That's been my experience 100% of the time. So, people who care about looks but don't care about intelligence are always going to be a no for us.

 

Good point - but like you said, this isn't solely the territory of the Ken's & Barbie's of the world...

 

We have known some pretty "junior high-ish" folks who's looks couldn't get them on the radio...

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We have been guilty in the past of seeing a hot couple and thinking they wouldn't be interested in us and not making the effort to get to know them that we might have a more average couple. But recently we have been shown the error of that thinking. we hooked up and had a great time with a couple that is half our age. We had seen them around the club for a couple of years off and on but never made the effort to get to know them because we thought "they wouldn't want to play with us old farts". Then one slow night at the club we had the oppurtunity to get to know them a little and it turns out they hadn't approached us because they thought that "we wouldn't want to play with a couple of young people".

 

This may not be the popular opinion, but initially we are attracted to someone by their looks. In other words, if I don't think you look sexually attractive I will probably never experiance your personality, no matter how good it is. One does not have to be perfect to be attractive but if we meet two couples with equally good personalities the odds are we will be playing later with the couple that is closest to our idea of physically optimum. And judging by how much easier time these so called Ken and Barbie types seem to have hooking up with play partners it appears to me that a lot of people must feel the same.

 

So I have to say, that I think Ken and Barbie often get an undeserved bad rap.

 

I have heard before people say that they don't like the Ken and Barbie type, or some call them the beautifull people, because they snub them or aren't friendly to them when they introduce themselves. But my question is, what are they supposed to do if they don't find you attractive? We go to the club to interact with potential playmates so if someone comes up and introduces themselves that we don't find sexually attractive wouldn't we naturally give a polite greeting and then try to move on as quickly as possible?

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I don't like Barbie because my husband had an affair with her. :mad:

 

But that's just me. :rollseyes

 

Ok, seriously ... we are turned off by the "Ken and Barbie" types because they seem to always put the shallow attributes above all. It's like, if you don't have a personality, that's fine as long as you have a gorgeous face and a perfect body and can fit in with "our" clique.

 

That's our issue.

 

I am not perfectly thin and china-doll like. I have a few extra pounds, I have stretch marks, I have insecurities. My husband does not possess a six-pack, though he is naturally lean. His hairline is receding and he is far from perfect.

 

All in all, I think we are still a good looking couple. Neither of us fail to garner looks of appreciation when we are out, whether it is vanilla or swinger venue. But we still don't feel we fit the "Ken and Barbie" mold and we do not want to. We are "real" which we feel sets us apart from those who are not.

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For me, there's a vast difference between

 

because they snub them or aren't friendly to them when they introduce themselves

 

and

 

give a polite greeting and then try to move on as quickly as possible?

 

I think the latter is fine and the former is rude. To me, there's never any excuse to not be at least polite. It's totally possible to be polite and brief.

 

But... it occurred to me that I think the venue matters too. If this is a house party of 10 people, courtesy is even more key. If it's a nightclub of 300, it's easier to get away with shorter interaction.

 

Regardless, I think that it's just not that hard to communicate with one's body language and tone, "No, we aren't physically attracted to you but it is actually nice to meet you, and we can take 30 seconds to politely acknowledge your existence."

 

I also know that I am trigger-happy when it comes to nice manners though. More manners make the world a nicer place.

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Manners and common courtesy have alot to do with it, and we have met alot of superficial morons...not only based on looks, but throw into it how much money you make or what your political standpoints are....there are alot of snobs out there.

 

We watch what we eat and stay in good shape, not to please anyone else but ourselves. We've been told by a club patron before, "by the looks of you guys you could have anyone in this place". I would hate to think that anyone decides not to talk to us just because of our looks (whether it's good or bad).

 

Someone made a comment that they didnt like facial hair, or only liked brunettes. Everyone really has something that is not their cup-of-tea. That's your perogative, but it's a kind of profiling...just as some leaner or younger couples might do. However, rudeness and snobbery is not acceptable in my book.

 

Spoo I know you've been around awhile and I have read some of your great advice/comments, but I'm curious as to why you started a whole new thread instead of commenting on the one established?

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I have heard before people say that they don't like the Ken and Barbie type, or some call them the beautifull people, because they snub them or aren't friendly to them when they introduce themselves. But my question is, what are they supposed to do if they don't find you attractive? We go to the club to interact with potential playmates so if someone comes up and introduces themselves that we don't find sexually attractive wouldn't we naturally give a polite greeting and then try to move on as quickly as possible?

 

I had a conversation with someone at work about this very thing today. (Not in the aspect of swinging, but as regards dating.) She and I had a similar take in that we both think there's "polite" and there's "fake polite". Polite is, for example, taking the couple of minutes it might require to genuinely greet someone you're introduced to, and to at least speak to them "eye-to-eye" and sincerely. Fake polite is mumbling "hihowareya" while already looking for the next target of opportunity.

 

I agree with you, good times, that one may not want to spend much time with a couple one doesn't find attractive. But it also doesn't mean that one needs to be dismissive and arrogant, as it seems that all too often many K-and-B types are willing to be. Out here in the land where "Superficial" has been raised to a high art form, "fake polite" is all-too-common. It's the classic "snub": say the "right things" while not really acknowledging the other person's existance. Sorta like lots of white people used to treat black people. And there are plenty of Ks-and-Bs out here ready, willing and able to exercise that ability.

 

An illustration (from another venue):

 

"we are looking for georgeous people to test [some lame site I deleted].com, a new HOT club for sexy hookups and wild parties.

 

Note: NO FUGLIES allowed (fat, ugly, over 45, stalkers, minors, etc...)"

 

That said, there are also lots of truly beautiful people who meet the K-and-B criteria and who are not that way at all.

 

What's difficult is telling the type of K-and-B with which you're about to interact. :(

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LOL_OMG said:
Spoo I know you've been around awhile and I have read some of your great advice/comments, but I'm curious as to why you started a whole new thread instead of commenting on the one established?

 

Simple...

 

To do so would have been to hijack the other thread which - while having a mention of "Ken & Barbie" - was not ABOUT "Ken & Barbie". Rather it was about playing with a couple based on looks - and finding out there was no chemistry.

 

This thread is specifically about the "knee jerk" reaction people have when they see "Ken & Barbie" types - which, IMHO, is the exact same reaction they don't like when "Ken & Barbie" see them ;)

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This may not be the popular opinion, but initially we are attracted to someone by their looks. In other words, if I don't think you look sexually attractive I will probably never experiance your personality, no matter how good it is. One does not have to be perfect to be attractive but if we meet two couples with equally good personalities the odds are we will be playing later with the couple that is closest to our idea of physically optimum. And judging by how much easier time these so called Ken and Barbie types seem to have hooking up with play partners it appears to me that a lot of people must feel the same.

 

So I have to say, that I think Ken and Barbie often get an undeserved bad rap.

 

I have heard before people say that they don't like the Ken and Barbie type, or some call them the beautifull people, because they snub them or aren't friendly to them when they introduce themselves. But my question is, what are they supposed to do if they don't find you attractive? We go to the club to interact with potential playmates so if someone comes up and introduces themselves that we don't find sexually attractive wouldn't we naturally give a polite greeting and then try to move on as quickly as possible?

 

Dito good times! This happens to be our view on this as well. When at a meet or club event we try to talk to everyone. But we separate those we want to have conversations with from those we want to have sex with. Why is it some here have a problem with this? We are here to solicit what we want out of the lifestyle, not what *others* want or what they *think* we *should* want.

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This whole post makes me sad.

 

It's just as wrong to assume that all pretty people have terrible personalities and that all average people all have great personalities...

 

...as it is to assume that older couples are all cheesy mulleted hot-tub rompers and younger couples are all drama-filled newbies who can't possibly be secure in their marriage, and single men are all just about to rape someone, and all black men have 13-inch cocks and swingers with kids must be boring and... is the point getting made yet?

 

Stereotyping is stereotyping. Being the victim of stereotyping is not permission to start perpetrating it on others.

 

...a perfect example of my statement that K&B don't have a lock on elitism. I don't see why it's acceptable to imply that your preferences (i.e. which do not include looks) are somehow better or more noble or more "important" than someone else's which happen to be based on looks.

 

At the end of the day, this is all about sex. What turns one person on isn't always what turns on another. For me? it's a big fat brain, and confidence + charm, and that ain't nothin' you can get just by going to a gym. Work those and you can pretty much be Quasimodo, as far as I care. But I respect that other people care more for rock-hard abs and a porn-star ass. Different strokes, you know?

 

But I don't look smugly at those who do filter for rock-hard abs and a porn-star ass. I wish them luck. Thank heavens there are enough swingers in the world that they can have what they want and I can have what I want.

 

 

:claps::claps:

 

I completely, wholeheartedly agree!!

 

Pepper

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Guest Pinmonkey

I wouldn't want to swing with a "Ken and Barbie" because frankly, I like my partners to have genitalia.

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I don't judge people on whether they are ken and Barbie. I put people in one of two lables, if you wil....Asshole and not asshole. If we get along and we are attracted to each other then fine, I don't care if they are the perfect specimen of manliness or womanhood, or if they have middle aged spread.

 

Personality is first and foremost.Yes I do drool over a perfect body, but I recently learned how much personality means to me. THere is a guy at our club who is HOT, he has a perfect body and a face to die for. Unfortuantley he knows it and seeks out only women with equally perfect bodies and faces. Sure, I think, that's fine, we all have our prefences and I can accept that. But I had occassion to talk with him, and by the end of the conversation his personality made him so unattractive that I would not touch him if he begged me.

 

So I really don't think it is a matter of looks, I honestly think it is personality that should be judged. I have been approached by Ken and Barbie types who I just love to death beacause they are sweet, nice people, and have no problem playing with them. I also have play dates with people who have less than perfect bodies. Once again it all came down to personality.

 

So I say stop the senseless bashing and judging of people based on their looks alone (good or bad) and start basing our opinons on the important stuff. Like personality and attraction.

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Since we are a couple with a Barbie, but no Ken, we experience both sides of the situation. She is drop-dead gorgeous and I am not. She is constantly being hit upon and I get the "Eeewwww!" look. We solved the problem by looking only for MFM candidates. It's less stressful on my ego.

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This seems as good a time as any to make my first post. My wife and I are excited by the idea but worry about the repercussions, so we haven't acted yet. We probably will at some point.

 

Anyway, she's Barbie. Smoking hot. Lifts weights (there is something *really* hot about a woman doing deadlifts, let me tell you). Visible abs. I'm Ken's moderately attractive cousin, Jim. I'm also very fit.

 

We (she, particularly) are pretty visual when it comes to sexual arousal. We also happen to be nice people and we're both physically incapable

of being rude to someone who's being nice to us (she to a fault - hang up on the damn telemarketer already!)

 

So what do we do if we go to a club intending to play?

 

If you're 50 pounds overweight or have green teeth or we just find you physically unattractive on the whole, we're just not going to enjoy sex no

matter how cool you are. We won't be rude, we'll still enthusiastically talk to you for a bit just because it's fun to talk to people, but we'll already have written you off as a play partner. Same goes if you're hot but the first words out of your mouth are "hey, your wife has nice tits."

 

I see no reason to vilify anyone for their sexual preferences. And let's face it - if you have no physical standards for your sexual partners, you're

in a tiny minority. So my standards differ from yours. Sue me.

 

Feel free to bitch about "rude people" or "ass holes", but Ken and Barbie might actually be neither of those. They might even be into your

15-years-older-and-30-pounds-overweight self.

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If there is one thing I've seen over the last few years in swinging is that there are a few standard topics on swinging forums. These include but are not limited to...

 

1 - Single males

a - Why am I not wanted?

b - Should they be allowed at clubs?

c - How do you find a good one?

 

2 - How can I get my wife interested?

a - I am no longer attracted to my wife and want someone else to have sex with.

b - The wife gave up on sex years ago.

c - My wife has already told me no several times.

d - I am afraid to bring it up.

 

3 - Where do we find another female for an FMF?

a - Insecure newbie couple who's male half doesn't admit it.

b - Bi-furious female

 

4 - Looks and swinging

a - Am I to fat to swing?

b - Why won't people swing with us?

c - Why can't we find people attractive like we are?

1 - Ken and Barbie, get over yourselves.

2 - Just because we take care of our looks and like the same doesn't make us bad people.

 

I'm sure if I gave it some thought I could come up with more, these are just on the top of my head. I think the real question is does it really matter if Ken and Barbie are defended or not, or what people think of them? Its all part of the equations we work with in finding play partners. I think a lot of less attractive couples attack Ken and Barbie out of jealousy (no one likes being rejected) and a lot of Ken and Barbie's can be quite rude about it.

 

The problem is sometimes you have to be a little rude. We take care of ourselves, we work out, we are not super attractive, but odds at the average swing club we are in the top 10% for looks right now based on our ages and appearance. We also worked HARD to get that way, especially Mrs. Chicup, and you wouldn't recognize us if you saw pictures of us from July and pictures of us now. We are not super picky on looks, but we really do require a mesh of looks and personality. Add it it Mrs. Chicup is of the shy side with meeting new people in general.

 

So the shy, attractive, youngish (though that is changing every year :lol: ) couple gets approached by the older, out of shape, couple. We are nice and chat, but really don't have any sexual attraction to them. If we are at a club with other friends we can find an excuse to leave pretty easy thats not rude, if not we can try to find on excuse, but if they are pushy sometimes you need to say 'nice meeting you, we are going.'

 

My guess is other couples, perhaps less shy and less worried about others feelings decide to nip it in the bud right away, I can't say I blame them, sometimes I wish we could be so up front.

 

Then yes we all know or know of the type of Ken and Barbie who are of the 'what were you THINKING talking to us' variety. There are a number of this type at the LL events in Chicago, and yea they are obnoxious, but it happens. My guess is if they were equally rude but ugly no one would care and write posts about them being so rude, its the rude + hot that seems to annoy people the most.

 

So in the end, have fun with people who you want to have fun with and who want to have fun with you. Who really cares about the rest?

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We also worked HARD to get that way, especially Mrs. Chicup, and you  wouldn't recognize us if you saw pictures of us from July and pictures of  us now. We are not super picky on looks, but we really do require a mesh > of looks and personality.

 

You boiled it down quite a bit better than I did. Same here on all points.

 

I lost 40 pounds last year. I started doing it for her and finished it for me. Best thing I ever did, aside from marrying her. This year, I intend to get

totally ripped. I would recommend it to anyone.

 

BTW, these forums are great. Thanks for contributing.

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I always thought Barbie was unattainable, so I never really even considered hitting on her. Now, her little sister Skipper, however...

(And before any of you make any "jailbait" comments about that, let me remind you that Skipper is over 40 now. Still, the lack-of-genitals thing could be problematical. That would be HER lack of genitals, btw.)

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I think the term "Ken and Barbie" has come to stand for "hot couple with an attitude".

I don't think people use it for hot people with personality and manners.

 

And, we all have our preferences and pet peeves and it's not always about us. If someone isn't interested it may not have anything to do with us and it may all be a matter of timing. Don't take it personal. Just see it as avoiding a waste of time and move on. There's plenty of fish in the sea, just keep casting your net.

 

We are all human and wonder sometimes why people can't see us for what we perceive to be our best points. This isn't dating, it's swinging. If I'm going to spend the weekend with you, you better have a damn personality or I'm going to be regretting I am there and vow to never come back if I show up at all. If I'm just going to walk in and fill a role, do a job, whatever, then my percetion of your hotness AT THAT MOMENT is pretty much all that matters. In that situation personality doesn't carry a lot of weight in decision making.

 

I've had some pretty pedestrian women give me the "oh get real look" and not even otherwise acknowledge my existence and I've had some pretty hot women tell me I was gorgeous and screw me in front of other people so I don't take any of it personally. Just go with the flow and have a good time.

 

edit: And I figure I'm no different than any one else. I have met women that I would not have been attracted to purely on looks, but once I got to know them they became the hottest of the hot in my book. And, I've seen some cover girl types that I was immediately attracted to but after a few minutes of conversation I tried to run away without it seeming obvious. So just keep putting your best foot forward, whatever that may be, try to have manners and some social skills and cut everybody a little slack and give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove you wrong.

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I think the term "Ken and Barbie" has come to stand for "hot couple with an attitude".

I don't think people use it for hot people with personality and manners.

 

I think you're exactly right.

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We go to the club to interact with potential playmates so if someone comes up and introduces themselves that we don't find sexually attractive wouldn't we naturally give a polite greeting and then try to move on as quickly as possible?

 

This quote somewhat bothers me (at least the part about moving on "as quickly as possible.") Why not take a little bit more time to get to know them? You have to whole evening to match up with people you find sexually attractive ... so what's the rush? I guess I feel that a polite greeting and quick dismissal tends to dismiss the person ... as a person. I don't think that its ever "polite" to do that ... it comes across (to me) as somewhat insensitive.

 

The other reason why I don't think that is a good way to go is that you don't know who the "unattractive" couple are friends with. If you are "politely" dismissive ... that's not good to sit all to well with your reputation. Think about it: if someone demonstrates insensitivity to the feelings of someone (unattractive) whom you are fond of, how will that make you feel about that other person? Not someone I would care to be around. On the other hand, that unattractive couple might appreciate the fact you took the time to get to know them as people (we all would feel that way) ... and just might introduce you to another couple who you are sexually attracted to (and with an enhanced reputation going in). You never know who's friends with who. If you take that kind of approach, I don't know how you can go wrong.

 

But that's just my two cents.

 

I have met women that I would not have been attracted to purely on looks, but once I got to know them they became the hottest of the hot in my book.

 

I couldn't agree more. Just one more reason ...

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This quote somewhat bothers me (at least the part about moving on "as quickly as possible.") Why not take a little bit more time to get to know them? You have to whole evening to match up with people you find sexually attractive ... so what's the rush? I guess I feel that a polite greeting and quick dismissal tends to dismiss the person ... as a person. I don't think that its ever "polite" to do that ... it comes across (to me) as somewhat insensitive.

 

 

Here comes my two cents :lol: .

 

What I don't agree with here is that you don't have a whole evening to find people who are sexually attractive. It is not always an easy thing to do to find a couple that you are both interested, so wasting your time with people, and possibly getting their hopes up when you are certain that you are not interested, to me is not a positive thing for anyone.

 

Anyone in this lifestyle quickly grows a thick skin and learns fast not to take anything personally. We all have our types and preference and if we do not fit that bill then so be it. I think what Good Times is saying makes perfect sense to me. I have been approached by people that I was in no way interested (in one case he was just not my type at all, even though he seemed like a nice man, just no spark), so I made polite conversation and moved on. I was not rude, no one was hurt and we were both able to use the rest of the evening to find people we were compatable with.

 

I have been to lots of socials and dances, etc and I found if you spend too much time with a couple being polite and take the time to get to know them, they see this as a clear sign that you are interested and then get upset when you don't chose to play with them. They actually responded better to just polite talk and then excusing yourself. No one took offense, no one was led on and no one wasted any time on something that isn't going to happen.

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curiousagain said:
I think the term "Ken and Barbie" has come to stand for "hot couple with an attitude".

I don't think people use it for hot people with personality and manners.

 

I'm not so sure...

 

It seems that - at times - people assume attractive couples are rude just as quickly as others assume overweight people are lazy.

 

It's what we used to call in the car business (a very dark period of my life) "curb qualifying". You decide whether or not you are going to approach a customer based on their appearance - do they look like they can buy a car today, or are they window shoppers who are going to waste your afternoon and leave in their busted down Kia?

 

If someone is approachable, I'll talk to them. Like GT said, I am not going to spend a lot of time if they aren't attractive, but I do pretty much talk to everyone at the club. What I have noticed though - that doesn't always work in reverse...

 

Trust me - as a couple who has been "curb qualified" as a "Ken & Barbie" type, I'd say that people make some pretty big snap assumptions... And it isn't only the "pretty people" who judge others based on appearance.

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This quote somewhat bothers me (at least the part about moving on "as quickly as possible.") Why not take a little bit more time to get to know them? You have to whole evening to match up with people you find sexually attractive ... so what's the rush? I guess I feel that a polite greeting and quick dismissal tends to dismiss the person ... as a person. I don't think that its ever "polite" to do that ... it comes across (to me) as somewhat insensitive.

 

 

Here comes my two cents :lol: .

 

What I don't agree with here is that you don't have a whole evening to find people who are sexually attractive. It is not always an easy thing to do to find a couple that you are both interested, so wasting your time with people, and possibly getting their hopes up when you are certain that you are not interested, to me is not a positive thing for anyone.

 

Anyone in this lifestyle quickly grows a thick skin and learns fast not to take anything personally. We all have our types and preference and if we do not fit that bill then so be it. I think what Good Times is saying makes perfect sense to me. I have been approached by people that I was in no way interested (in one case he was just not my type at all, even though he seemed like a nice man, just no spark), so I made polite conversation and moved on. I was not rude, no one was hurt and we were both able to use the rest of the evening to find people we were compatable with.

 

I have been to lots of socials and dances, etc and I found if you spend too much time with a couple being polite and take the time to get to know them, they see this as a clear sign that you are interested and then get upset when you don't chose to play with them. They actually responded better to just polite talk and then excusing yourself. No one took offense, no one was led on and no one wasted any time on something that isn't going to happen.

 

Exactly, first let me say that I don't think we would ever be confused with Ken and Barbie even though Mrs. GT is smoking hot (my biased but often verified opinion), but we try to stay in shape and watch our weight which puts us in the smaller percentage group of people than the average at any given club night. I think, based on experiance, that sometimes the physically fit better looking couples often get a reputation for being somewhat rude or arrogant out of neccessity. A lot of people just can't take a hint and if you are even slightly nice to them you end up spending the whole evening trying to politely get rid of them. When we first started we were always friendly and outgoing to everybody we met at the club and we hardly ever hooked up with anybody for play. The problem we ran into is that often, people just can't seem to read subtle body language as someone else said above. I think it only takes a few visits to the club to realize that if you are too friendly and don't move on quickly when not interested, that almost every time you go to the club you will have some couple that you aren't really interested in that follows you around all night pressuring you to hook up, and when you finally tell them you really aren't interested in them sexually they then have their feelings hurt and feel you are an asshole or have an arrogant personallity. So if you want to be free to meet other people it doesn't take long to figure out that you need to get better at the polite brush off or you will never hook up with anybody, the downside of that is that some of those people that you passed on will then think you are arrogant or an asshole. And as far as these people that you do pass on quickly hurting your reputation goes, it has been our experiance that if you are nice to the people, visit with them for to long and then move on, and they feel that you led them on or wasted their time for no reason, it hurts your reputation no worse than if you had just been polite but moved on quickly. My point is that when you run into that "hot couple with an attitude" it may be that they just aren't interested in you and don't want to lead you on. Yet when that same couple meets someone they are interested in, that couple may find them to be the nicest people in the world.

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I always thought refering someone as a Ken or Barbie meant that they were plastic or artificial. Not in the real sense, but in the sense of their personality.

 

We have met several fantastic-looking couples who were wonderful people. We have also met fantastic looking couples who were snob, or pretentious, or just "artificial". Know what I mean?

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Deptydog said:
We have met several fantastic-looking couples who were wonderful people. We have also met fantastic looking couples who were snob, or pretentious, or just "artificial". Know what I mean?

 

I know EXACTLY what you mean...

 

The key word here is you've "met" them. When the phrase is used to describe a general group of people, I think it falls into judgementalism...

 

Now - if you say (to your SO) "'so and so' is just such a 'Ken and Barbie'" because you have met them and gotten that "plastic" vibe, then that's not judgementalism - that is assessment. It is the people who walk into a club, grab a table and refuse to budge, waiting for the swinging world to revolve around (and ultimately saunter up to) them, who then label every pretty face that didn't say "hello" plastic... That bugs me...

 

In my opinion, those folks are simply trying to make themselves feel better about their social hesitancy. In doing so, they are reverting to the ways of the junior high wall-flower (a herd I was a part of myself in middle school) who sits on the bleachers at the school dance and simply gets angry because they are too afraid to risk the rejection be saying hello...

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We would not approach "Barbie and Ken" to play. We are friendly to everyone, but as a BBW, I tend to assume that the "Barbie and Ken" types aren't going to be interested in us. I've read too many profiles saying that.

 

If we were sitting near them at a M&G, or other swinger gathering, we'd socialize, and probably flirt a little. But until I heard the words "Let's go play" from Barbie or Ken, that's all it would be.

 

We all have our preferences, and if theirs takes me off their to-do list, well, it's their loss.

 

What I have no patience for is people who are unfriendly and rude. We're not desperate, and being pleasant to us is not going to give us the wrong idea or false expectations. We have one couple we're friendly with whom we will never play with, for two reasons - we aren't their type, and they're not our type. No reason why we can't socialize and enjoy each others' company.

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Spoomonkey said:
Attractiveness isn't some sort of malady that renders a person soul-less... In fact, it is just as likely that an attractive person will have a great personality as someone who is less attractive.

 

So fill me in, please... Why are they the bad guy?

 

I know personality is important... Without it, there just isn't anyone hot enough to play with for me... But when I look across the room, I can't see your personality. But should I automatically look with suspicion on "Ken & Barbie"?

 

And if I keep working on my appearance, will this eventually bite me in the ass?

 

Spoomonkey

Mrs. WS has some really HOT friends, total Barbies. She always jokes "It would be so much easier to hate you if you weren't so nice." :lol: And although we don't consider ourselves Ken and Barbie, we have never lacked for action with Ken's and Barbie's. So yes, most are fantastic people too.

 

I think the stereotype comes from all those personal ads stating "Hot, young, attractive couple seeks other hot, young, attractive couples." This is the minority, but it seems like all it is to them is sex with others just like themselves. Which if that is what gets you off... more power to you.

 

What I've really noted as interesting since we got into the lifestyle is how many men and women look for playmates different then their spouses. I am 5'7" and right where I should be on the body mass index. Mrs. WS is a bit plusher and a curvy woman. We're always amazed at how these men that are married to Barbie's with perfect bodies are all over Mrs. WS, and how women married to tall, buff Ken's that work out everyday are attracted to a more average bodied, shorter me. :)

 

So maybe there is a minority of Ken and Barbie's that give them a bad name, but I think the majority are not the soulless people they are made out to be.

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Deptydog said:
I always thought referring someone as a Ken or Barbie meant that they were plastic or artificial. Not in the real sense, but in the sense of their personality.

 

We have met several fantastic-looking couples who were wonderful people. We have also met fantastic looking couples who were snob, or pretentious, or just "artificial". Know what I mean?

I do. One of the swingers websites is owned by a Utahn, and he throws parties at a local club. But, the parties are "all the pretty people". We don't attend because unless the feeling many come away from it with is "you must be sub-30 and Playboy and GQ perfect." It's sad. I can say though that his parties are slowly dying for this reason.

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Attractiveness isn't some sort of malady that renders a person soul-less... In fact, it is just as likely that an attractive person will have a great personality as someone who is less attractive.

 

So fill me in, please... Why are they the bad guy?

 

I know personality is important... Without it, there just isn't anyone hot enough to play with for me... But when I look across the room, I can't see your personality. But should I automatically look with suspicion on "Ken & Barbie"?

 

And if I keep working on my appearance, will this eventually bite me in the ass?

 

My impression of Ken and Barbie as the bad guy is mostly from reading their profiles ... which always emphasize that they want people just like them - buff, beautiful, built. That right there smacks clearly that they don't give a hoot about personality, and since they don't care about anyone else's personality, they probably don't have much personality themselves.

 

There is a swing club here in Dallas that we have never been to because the impression is that they cater solely to the "beautiful people". There are many clubs here in Dallas and we like to attend most of them to get a feel of which ones we like best. A friend of ours, who is kind of a BBW, attended this particular club and confirmed our impression. Heck, their website even proclaims in so many words that they are where the "beautiful people" come to party in the lifestyle. We have heard it from a couple of others who have gone as well, people who say they will never go back because it's just one big Ken/Barbie fest.

 

It just comes down to the impression that most Ken and Barbies give off that looks are paramount over and above any personality anyone else may have. That's what makes them the bad guy.

 

I believe myself to be an attractive woman. I never fail to garner my fair share of appreciative glances and compliments. Even many of you here have complimented me ... but I still do not believe I fit the "mold" that the Ken and Barbies are looking for. Their standards are simply too high. It's like their basic personality consists of "look at me and how great I am." And my opinion is that people of lesser attractiveness generally possess a higher level of congenial personality.

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My impression of Ken and Barbie as the bad guy is mostly from reading their profiles ... which always emphasize that they want people just like them - buff, beautiful, built. That right there smacks clearly that they don't give a hoot about personality, and since they don't care about anyone else's personality, they probably don't have much personality themselves.

 

I dissagree with this statement and would guess that it is this attitude that is the reason for this thread.

 

I would agree if we were talking about finding friends to hang out and socialize with. I have friends of all shapes and sizes and how they look makes no difference to me, it is all about how well we get along, and how our personalities mesh is all that matters. But in swinging we are looking to meet people to have sex with, and it seems perfectly reasonable to me for someone to state that they aren't interested in certain body types if they don't find those body types sexually attractive. In my case, if you are significantly overweight I might find you a lot of fun to visit and interact with outside the bedroom, but I wouldn't want to have sex with you. I know people that like bigger body types and are not sexually attracted to the more slender people, does that mean they don't have much personality either? I think not, as I said before, body type preferences have nothing to do with personality in swinging, as we have met people with good and not so good personalities in all shapes and sizes.

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I guess this discussion goes back to the old argument of: are you more attracted to the person or the body? For us it is the person. Like I've said before, some 10's turn into 5's after ten minutes, and many 5's turn into 10's and are the best sex we've had in the lifestyle.

 

You are entitled to get out of swinging what you want to, and for that there should be no argument. If you want a certain body type and that's the most important trait you are looking for, then that is how you do it. Not wrong, just your way.

 

That said, we'll keep on keepin' on. :)

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I believe if people work hard to obtain a certain look and because of that look, they believe that they can do better than us so be it. I'm not offended if people aren't interested in us nor do we intend to offend others by not being interested in them. We always try to be polite and expect the same in return. There's no shortage of available couples where we are from, so there is something out there for everyone.

 

In most cases, looks are what attracts us to others and I expect those same standards to be applied to us. It's mostly about sex, not a personality contest.

 

Our "standards" are determined on an individual basis. While there are certainly body types that turn us off completely, there are also less than perfect body types that we really groove on.

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But in swinging we are looking to meet people to have sex with, and it seems perfectly reasonable to me for someone to state that they aren't interested in certain body types if they don't find those body types sexually attractive.

Dito

 

I have to agree. Some may call it shallow... but I don't think there's anything shallow about it. Personality is very important to me. I prefer attractive & fit play partners, but if they don't have a personality to match their looks... I won't be interested in them either.

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2inVT said:
But until I heard the words "Let's go play" from Barbie or Ken, that's all it would be.

 

I guess I understand this - we all dislike the idea of rejection... But why do you put the ball solely in their court? This seems like a double standard... If someone assumes that you are "Ken & Barbie" then the responsibility for "making the move" is on you...

 

And if you don't make it...

 

Well - people make further assumptions...

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good times said:
I dissagree with this statement and would guess that it is this attitude that is the reason for this thread.

 

It is...

 

The "assumption from afar" is something that makes me scratch my head. People look at "Ken & Barbie", assume they wouldn't be interested and then paint them with all sorts of nasty assumptions to justify their fear of rejection...

 

They may not be attracted to you, but it isn't because they lack a "congenial personality". There is nothing wrong with them being attracted to certain attributes - whether it is blond hair, a friendly smile or rock hard abs; what does it for them, does it for them...

 

I am not going to play with someone who I find physically unappealing simply because they have a great sense of humor. So, I guess I am going to Dito GT and Ves...

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Dito

 

I have to agree. Some may call it shallow... but I don't think there's anything shallow about it. Personality is very important to me. I prefer attractive & fit play partners, but if they don't have a personality to match their looks... I won't be interested in them either.

Dito

 

This is exactly how I feel only you said it better Ves. :)

 

They may not be attracted to you, but it isn't because they lack a "congenial personality". There is nothing wrong with them being attracted to certain attributes - whether it is blond hair, a friendly smile or rock hard abs; what does it for them, does it for them...

 

I am not going to play with someone who I find physically unappealing simply because they have a great sense of humor. So, I guess I am going to Dito GT and Ves...

I agree, I once had a woman say to me "I think you are really handsome but I only get turned on by guys with long hair". Did I get bummed out? Sure, but I totally understand, and even though she blew me off I still think she has a great personality.

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I guess I understand this - we all dislike the idea of rejection... But why do you put the ball solely in their court? This seems like a double standard... If someone assumes that you are "Ken & Barbie" then the responsibility for "making the move" is on you...

 

And if you don't make it...

 

Well - people make further assumptions...

 

Agreed! As a physically fit and somewhat trendy couple, we are a bit insecure at times too - we're just a bit shy... I'd hate to think that folks that we'd like to play with are not giving us "the signal" because we work out regulary and they don't. We try to make the "glances" and "looks" too but JC... A little help?

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I do not think I conveyed myself properly.

 

I also will not play with someone who I do not find physically attractive. Part of what I was trying to say is that in MY perception, the "beautiful people" tend to place unattainable standards onto others. It seems that the ones WE have come across are looking for absolute perfection, which no one has, yet some actually believe themselves to be.

 

As a sidenote, I will state that when I have "criticized" the "beautiful people" to some of our friends (speaking generally, of the type of environment that the aforementioned club is reputed to have), I have often been told that I am one of the "beautiful people" ... I disagree with that statement each time I am told that. I am told that I would fit in wonderfully with those at this particular club, but I am simply not interested.

 

Yes, there are some "beautiful people" with great personalities ... I do not place them in this Ken and Barbie category. Someone else stated that they considered Ken and Barbie to reflect artificial personalities, shallowness, and conceitedness. That's my opinion as well. I know some very beautiful people who have terrific personalities ... I have seen pics of people, and only talked to them on this board. I think they are absolutely gorgeous ... because of MORE than their physical attributes ... because of WHO they portray themselves to be on this board. (Example: Mrs. LikeMinds is beautiful, inside and out, but it is her personality on this board and her sensitivity as a human being that enhances her physical beauty. Rarely does physical beauty enhance a dull or lacking personality).

 

I think that there are a great many people who are beautiful in my eyes, but wouldn't be in another's. That's just preference.

 

My opinions are about those who are beautiful, know it, want to make sure everyone else knows it and have impossibly high standards for anyone else to attain. This is why those clubs that generally cater to solely the "pretty people" typically fade out over time.

 

Mr. and Mrs. Spoo ... you are both VERY hot ... but are not in the category of Ken and Barbie, as the definition has evolved into what it has currently. Mr. and Mrs. Twofer ... VERY hot and not Ken and Barbie. Thrax, curiousagain, ES .... VERY hot ... not Kens. Vespertine, Dynamar, Mrs. Intuition ... very beautiful women ... not Barbies. See what I am saying?

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My experience was a few years ago. I had been in the area and tried to chat online on several different IM services and chatrooms to different local couples. Nothing ever came of it. Sooo... my hubby and I lived right down from a local social that has been around for over 20 years. We thought.. couldn't hurt.. let's check it out! My hubby had managed a famous swing club in Dallas years before and knew what to expect. This was however my first experience. ;) We showed up, it was a very nice place (we later got married there :) ) and we sat down at a round table close to the dance floor. There were several other couples sitting at the table as well. A few hours later we both looked at each other and went home. Not once did anyone speak to us! (????) Not that we didn't try... we even asked a few to dance.

 

About a year later a friend of mine heard what happened and told us to check out this online swingers dating site. We did and seemed to have all kinds of response. So instead of meeting one by one... we invited 43 couples over for an all included ( food, liquor, pool, etc) house party. 4 couples showed up!!!! I found out later it was because my pictures were intimidating. Flattering but...My heart sank.

 

I decided after that, that I'd go to another house party myself. I got to know people personally and they saw my personality and not my looks. If I had a house party today... I'd have to rent a place and I would be thrilled! :)

 

Just goes to show... even the "barbie type" can get left out.

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Ok, having read all of the posts here made by a lot of people I respect on this board, I have to toss in my pennies.

 

When I was dating, I had a profile on Match.com. I played with my profile on there many times, trying to get it right. I finally sat down with a Drambuie in one hand a great Fuente in the other and thought about what I really wanted out of a prospective mate. (Ultimately being the future Mrs. Twofer ;) ). Now, having perused a ton of women's profiles, and I even looked at a few men's, to get an idea of what was acceptable, etc. Finally I happened upon an idea/ideal that I hold to today, and that Mrs. Twofer and I agree upon wholeheartedly. I wrote in my profile that I was not trying to be superficial, mean or stuck up, but I believe we all have one thing in common whether we choose to admit it or not. This being that I/we simply cannot see your personality from across the room. It is not a slight, it is not rudeness, it is not being stuck up, snobbish or any other negative form of representation you may desire to label it. It is simply a gauge by which physical attractiveness and, ultimately, sexual attraction are determined. I have in my mind an idea of what an attractive person is for ME. I am want to describe this in detail, but I have never been able to do so, for myself, let alone anyone else. Usually, it manifests itself more in the form of what I am NOT attracted to. It is no one's fault, it is not A fault. It simply is. I do not dislike someone for not being attracted to me, unless they are quite rude about it. Then I tend to get a bit snippy :mad:

 

And to comment on Mrs. Goodtime's post concerning talking with someone for a bit, but if you're not interested, moving on after a short time. Again, this is just like dating. There were a couple of women that I dated that just weren't for me. So, I cut them loose (sorry, crudely stated), so as to not "lead them on". That is what I would classify as mean, and very hurtful.

 

So, I guess my point is, please don't hate those that espouse an opinion of what they prefer. To each their own, and bless them for being nice about it.

 

Mr. Twofer soapbox steppin down.

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So, I guess my point is, please don't hate those that espouse an opinion of what they prefer. To each their own, and bless them for being nice about it.

 

Mr. Twofer soapbox steppin down.

Amen, Brother!!!

 

I think you summed it up nicely.

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Spoomonkey said:
I guess I understand this - we all dislike the idea of rejection... But why do you put the ball solely in their court? This seems like a double standard... If someone assumes that you are "Ken & Barbie" then the responsibility for "making the move" is on you...

 

And if you don't make it...

 

Well - people make further assumptions...

 

I put the ball in their court because so far, every local profile I've seen of folks who superficially fit the Barbie and Ken description have stated they only are interested in HWP, fit, attractive people.

 

Are we attractive? We think so. We're far more Dan and Roseanne than we are Barbie and Ken. Attractive is a subjective concept.

 

But again, I'm a short, round 45-year-old BBW - I'm only HWP if you're talking about very generous proportions. Mr2 is tall, husky, and although I (and a lot of other ladies) think he's adorable, nobody will ever mistake him for Mel Gibson. We're fairly fit, I think, but we're not about to run marathons or go rock-climbing.

 

So, to define putting the ball in their court, we'll chat, flirt, and be friendly. If we get some signals in return that tell us "Barbie and Ken" want to play, then we'll go for it and make the move.

 

I don't see it as a double standard; I see it more as being courteous and respecting what others are looking for. If someone's profile says they only want to play with 20 year olds, then I'm not going to be making a move on them either.

 

I'm not putting down those folks who have very specific preferences about appearance and body types and shapes. That's their choice, and more power to them.

 

We can usually pick up pretty quickly on whether Barbies and Kens whose profiles we haven't read are interested in us or not. And if Barbie and Ken state in their profile that size, shape, age, etc., are unimportant; and we've met them and liked them; then we'll definitely be suggesting some playtime.

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      The first was that she’d spin away from the man; it signified she wasn’t interested in what he had to offer.
       
      The second was that she’d get closer, I’d watch her whisper in his ear. I knew the question, “Where’s your wife?” Some of them would shake their heads, they were attending as one of the few single men the club allowed, and when they received Mary’s response, they’d move away - that’s not what we were looking for at the moment.
       
      But the man might indicate where his wife was dancing a few feet away. When this kind of thing happened, Mary would glance to me and give our special signal - she’d put one hand on the back of her head, one on her stomach. When I got the cue, I’d come out, we’d dance as a foursome.
       
      As I approached, a man grasped the elbow of a tall attractive lady who was more modestly dressed, at least for the club. There was no conversation on the dance floor, the heavy volume of music and the thumping of the bass wouldn’t allow for speech. But I could tell the woman was interested in me, the four of us paired off and I often found myself facing this vixen. It was obvious they were as interested in us as I was in them, I could tell by the way Mary was rubbing against the man that she felt the same.
       
      After a couple of songs, Mary led the way off the floor, holding his hand, leading us off into a corner away from the speakers. As we sat, the man said, “I’m Ed, this is my wife, Marilyn.”
       
      Marilyn and I softly shook hands, I believe she raised the hem of her skirt to give me a view of her upper thighs. Ed had no problem seeing Mary’s legs, or where they met - she was sitting so that the babydoll was gathered to her side, leaning forward so her globes were exposed to his view.
       
      “Do you come here often?” Ed asked.
       
      “Every few weeks,” I responded, “you?”
       
      “This is our first time here.” Mary gave him a look that asked for further info. “We’re just starting this,” he admitted.
       
      Marilyn picked it up. “We’ve only had one time with a couple of friends. We liked it, heard about this place, decided to see if we could get into more trouble.”
       
      “Trouble’s our middle name,” I joked.
       
      Our conversation continued, where do you live, what movies have you seen lately, etc. It was a screen, of course, we were all calculating if the four of us would be pleasurable bedmates. I paid my attention to Marilyn, my wife had told me numerous times not to worry about her, she can take care of herself. My hand found Marilyn’s knee, she smiled at me, encouraged me to reach a tad higher. We bent towards each other, our mouths met.
       
      Marilyn opened her lips to me, the kiss was ardent, her mouth moist. She licked at my upper lip, her hand fondled the back of my neck. Our tongues clashed, promising cupidity, mimicking what I presumed our bodies might be doing in a few scant moments.
       
      We broke for a moment, Marilyn invited, “Would you guys want to go to one of the rooms?”
       
      I, of course, was all for it, but then I heard Mary. “Uh, not right now. But thanks.”
       
      We’ve always had the guideline that if one person doesn’t want to do something, she speaks for both of us. Regretfully, I pecked at Marilyn’s lips a last time, we stood, went separate ways.
       
      “You’re not upset, are you?” Mary asked me.
       
      “Of course not, not at all. You’re not in the mood?”
       
      “Oh, I’m in the mood all right, just not with Ed.”
       
      “Something wrong with him?” I asked.
       
      “I tried to get him interested,” Mary revealed, “but his kiss was a little cold, indifferent. I put my hand on his leg, he was too busy watching you and Marilyn, he never responded. My guess is that if we went into a room, he’d be watching you two, I’m not even sure he’d get hard for me.” It was a reasonable thought, it had happened to us a couple times before. “Hope you don’t mind, bet she’d have been a firecracker.”
       
      “Maybe. But you’re a firecracker too.”
       
      We headed back to the dance floor, in search of another couple.
    • By Miss Sunshine
      i may be considered a snob but I like to see and lick a pussy that doesn't have too much hanging labia (gets in the way). I like a bigger clit, one you can suck on, mmmmm. I had an experience with another lady once that when she was aroused, her clit swelled to the point it looked like a very small cock, we rubbed pussies together and I could actually feel some penetration, it was very nice to suck.
       
      Cocks, I need them circumsized, sorry. size doesn't matter but once in awhile I love to run into a huge one.
       
      Don't get me wrong, I have had different shapes and sizes, cut and uncut, I am just saying what my preference is.
       
      Cleanliness, there have been a few people who haven't been clean and it was not nice and I left them standing.
       
      What about you all?
    • By NotnewNotpros
      As a couple we are somewhere in between swinging and poly. I don’t need full on love but enjoy the playfulness of the “crush” and boyfriend/girlfriend crush feelings.
       
      We are slowly proceeding with this with a new couple. Who is also new to the LS. We’ve been there in the past and really enjoyed this type of thing.
       
      My “issue” is that the female is very playful and chatty. But her and my husband talk more sexy and more often than she and I do. It doesn’t make me jealous at all, I just would love it too!! The male half is great in person but the chatting and flirting has really slowed down since we’ve played a few times. He seems to be cautious when it comes to sexting. So much fun for my husband and I feel like a little blah...bland. I just want a little more fun and excitement (chat wise) considering we aren’t able to see each other often. She and I can hang out but they want to stick to the “rule of 3” for now.
       
      So it’s hard to get to know him more without having some alone time and minimal (slightly bland) chat.
       
      We really like them and it’s been a long time since we’ve found such good 4 way chemistry.
       
      Any advice? And how often do you chat and what is your expectations?
    • By sunbuckus
      I have heard from several members here that the more they get to know a couple, the less they want to have sex with them. Maybe we just haven't been fortunate enough to get to know a couple that well that it reaches that point or maybe I'm not wired that way. Or perhaps there's something else in play (like maybe they meant in terms of seeing them pick their nose or exhibit an unbecoming personality trait). However, for myself, I have found that the more we talk and get to know a couple, the more comfortable I feel with them and I'm more interested in engaging with them in sex. In fact, finding more about other couples almost endears them to me. I know that sounds too intimate but the more I get to know a person, the more I care about them as a person and their well-being. Even if we witness something that is a turn-off, it's even more of a reminder to me that they aren't perfect...not some unattainable, flawless couple who sits on their lofty pedestal.
       
      Is this feeling felt more in those who are open to poly or is it not poly-specific? Is the desire of not wanting to know too much about another couple a "protective barrier" so feelings won't develop? Is it just the mindset that swinging is for sex and nothing else so everything outside of that is irrelevant? Or am I just looking too much into this? Please share your thoughts on the matter!
    • By udsarge
      So my wife has recently underwent a big change. She had a gastric surgery and as a result, she has had a large recent weight loss. She states that she really enjoys the sex we've been having since the surgery. She says it feels different and better since her weight loss, so that aspect of change she loves. What she has had a little issue with, is that with the weight loss, she has lost some of her breast size. She has gone from a full 44 DD down to a 42 C or so. She always had been a more fuller bust gal, but as a result of the weight loss,  she kind of misses the fuller look. Now I admit, I have always been a boob guy, and I love to just curl up on her chest and nuzzle or nibble away no matter what size they wre. Now that she's lost a few cups, she kinda misses them. It's a weird duality that I see her going through.  She's happy with the change that happened, but part of her misses some of the old parts.I didn't know if other women went through this kind of struggle, whether it was a change due to surgery, or weight loss, or any other cause. Share if you would like
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