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Daphne

Inappropriate moving on my guy?

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We are newbies. To get a feel for what the LS is about, we went to the Swingers' Convention in New Orleans last week....came away with Qs I'll place on different boards. This is my first one. I don't know if what I am relating was inappropriate so comments will be appreciated. But first I want to say how perfectly lovely everyone was to us. We had fun. Nice group of people.

 

Single woman in her 60s was talking to us. We told her this was our first step into the LS and we were there to observe, not to play, we were very clear about that. She said all of the men she'd been with in the LS were bad lovers...hmmmmm, think that was maybe a slight exaggeration? LOL. She asked about my guy who was standing there and I said he was incredible in bed, lasted a long time and was extremely skilled. A very interested "Oh....." and she immediately moved closer to cuddle against him, he did not respond. She continued to make over him, saying, "We have to get together," waved her hand in a dismissive manner and told me, "Go away." At no time did my guy respond or encourage her, just stood there. Then she whispered in his ear that they had to get together. He took me by the hand and we walked away. We ran into her several more times....once at the dance. When I went to the bathroom she ran over to ask him to dance, he declined, she came back again to ask him while I was gone, he still declined. Still later she caught him when he headed to the bar, asking for our room, number....he did not give it to her.

 

We have been reading posts on this board before joining today and knew there were rules about how to approach a couple, but as we are so new, we don't understand enough to know if a breach of conduct had been made.....we left our Emily Post Book on Etiquette at home! So I asked several women. "Did she ask you to play?" No, just wanted me to go away and then kept rubbing against and pestering my guy. All were surprised. They said she was rude and inappropriate. One thought that maybe the woman had seen me as `selling' my guy when I said how wonderful he is in bed. If that was the case, it was inadvertent, I was just answering her Q. I look forward to what you seasoned people have to say.

 

Another part of this story was that she wanted to talk to me (I'm a nurse) about her inability to feel anything sexual...."My erogenous areas are numb," as she put it. I told her to see a gynecologist, she said none of them knew anything. We kept running into her and each time she kept after me to `help' her. I suggested she get Welburin. But she didn't seem to really want help, just to obsess. The last time she found us waiting for an elevator and wanted a conversation there....plus my number so she could call me at home. When I demurred, she critically asked, "Are you uncomfortable talking to a woman about sex?" "Not at a party or while waiting for an elevator," I replied. She ran to get something to write my number down....thankfully the elevator came. I didn't want to be rude but had she caught me I'd have given her a number.....and then when she called it, obviously not mine, the receiver would have indeed had a very weird call from I was identifying at this point as a very weird woman!! I look forward to your comments. Maybe I was totally wrong and this is acceptable behavior, if so, I need to know. Thank you.

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We feel her actions were inappropriate. Now the question is, is she intentionally rude or just one of those people that can't take a hint. Sucks that you ran into one of them but it's bound to happen eventually. You guys sound like you handled it nicely, maybe next time be a little less nice when someone won't leave you alone. Please don't take that last sentence as offensive, we're not implying any fault on your part.

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First off, welcome to the Swingers Board.

 

From our experience, swinging is filled with some wonderful people, which it sounds like you met plenty of. But, as always, mixed in with all the good apples are going to be a few not so good ones. It sounds like you found one of those, or more accurately, she found you. I really don't know what else to say other than it sounds like you handled things as well as anybody could. I would just try to place her in that file of other "unique" people you have run into in life...and hope to never ever lay eyes on again.

 

Yes, she was wrong, rude, and inconsiderate, and I'm sure was that way before you and will be that way after you. Fortunately, there aren't many like that, so maybe you've already exceeded your quota on that even being new so you won't have to ever deal with it again :)

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Got a good chuckle out of that one. Sounds to us like that was very inappropriate and unacceptable behavior. If anything always answer questions like "is he good in bed" or "do you give good BJ's" or anything sexual like that with sarcasm. We find it annoying when people ask, are you good in bed. Who responds with "Oh, I'm terrible." Even if they sucked they would still respond with "I'm terrific." Even saying so, the moment she "shoo'd" you away that was the moment to just be blunt and say not interested. So it hurt her feelings, too bad but you have to make sure that you guys are comfortable first. Doesn't sound like you guys did anything wrong, except not telling her you weren't interested.

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Any social situation can bring people that frankly are just odd...and she seems to be one of them...I would just say strangely narcissistic. I always find it best for us regardless of the situation (I mean Lifestyle or Vanilla), to end the conversation as quickly as possible and move on. No sense in making any drama, but no sense in putting up with them being rude (either intentionally or unintentionally). That way they don't bother my good time and I can laugh about how strange they are.

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I agree with DestinyBandJ. I think if some other woman tried to shoo me away, I would have raised my eyebrows a bit and laughed at her. Then said, "Mr. intuition, do you want to field this one?" Ultimately, I leave it up to him to set her straight, and as soon as he saw her do something like that - or anything remotely disrespectful to me - she'd get shut down faster than you could blink. The reverse is true, too. There's no faster way to turn me off than to try to shove my man out of the way, or try to make yourself out to be a better deal. Maybe I'd tell him to try using the other hand tonight; I hear it's supposed to make it feel like it's someone else doing it. He'd probably reply that, nope, he's had enough practice jerking off now that he's pretty ambidextrous. In any case, I'd wish him luck with that, because he's getting nowhere with me.

 

The woman you described sounds like she has some issues that require professional help. She's not going to solve her numb clitoris problem by employing your husband to fix it for her. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a psychological problem, and the only outcome I could envision for an encounter with her (your first encounter?) would be her blaming your husband for her inability to achieve an orgasm. What a great first experience that would've been, eh? Sounds like you dodged a bullet.

 

Yeah, don't be afraid to politely decline. It is awkward, but with practice, it gets marginally easier. Becoming assertive and tactful is one of those essential life skills you get to learn in the lifestyle.

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Thank all of you. At first we thought she was just harmlessly flirting and teasing, did not take her seriously....until it escalated. At no point did my guy play into her. At that point neither of us knew what to do. Had we been in any other setting it would have been easy to handle......and my guy would have politely blasted her for what she said to me....but this was an entirely new venue for us.....what was OK/not OK? Psychological problems? Without a doubt. Maybe as in `looney tunes' However, at her age some of the numbness could be hormonal...or rather lack of them. But as gynecologists, according to her, don't know anything, and she dismissed my suggestion of Welbutrin, I think obsessing is something she'd rather do than address her problem rationally.

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Another situation arose at the convention that I do not know if it is similar to the one with this woman or not. My guy was sitting on a long couch with a couple we were talking with on one side, another man on his right. I was in a chair facing the couple. My guy chatted briefly with the guy on his right, then got up to get something from our room. At that point the guy (we had not been introduced or spoken) hightailed it to my chair, sitting on the arm. As he was flirting strongly, he scooted off the arm, squeezing onto the cushion with me. Among other things, he told me `how popular' I'd be in the playroom, and what he'd `like to do to my pussy'. His hand slipped down my top as he talked, I blocked it casually. I didn't flirt back or respond, just listened as he talked. I'd already told him we were brand new and were at the convention to only observe, not play. When my guy came back, he stood close by, watching the scenario.....he'd not previously seen any man hit on me and I think he was amused. At this point my guy returned, just as the guy's hand started creeping up my leg, telling my guy that I had `great legs', my guy agreed (both men exaggerated greatly). I blocked his hand this time, as well. Guy seemed to have no intention of vacating his spot next to me so I got up and left with my guy. So, the Q perhaps should be.......although this man did not dismiss my guy nor tell him to go away, but he was attempting some sexual type moves.......is it acceptable in a SW setting to approach a woman in this manner without her man? My guy said when they were sitting on the couch chatting, the man said nothing about me to him. Only when my guy was gone did the man make his move. I didn't take offense at his actions, neither did my guy. He said he wasn't at all worried or jealous as he knew the man wasn't my type. Also we had agreed beforehand that we absolutely would not play and my guy just wanted to observe how I handled this man, knowing that i would. We just need to understand the boundaries and how singles approach couples. Sorry to be so naive, but we really are brand spanking new!!

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You have just had the worst luck! This is also not common in our experience...however it sounds like he was a single guy looking for some action and single guys do have a tendency to be more aggressive (mostly because there are so many of them). He knew that you were at a 'convention' so figured that you were open game. You did the right thing. Now hopefully, you won't keep running across people like this. If only there was a test or something that could root all of the 'less desirable' people out early before they become a problem. We'll have to work on that...

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GoldCoCouple: Actually this guy was married. They'd been swinging since their marriage, he'd told my guy it saved their marriage as they were bored with each other very quickly. She wasn't with him when the above incident occurred. Please let us know what the etiquette is when a single woman/man, or a couple wants to approach a couple....or just one half of that couple. Guidelines would be appreciated.

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I haven't started swinging yet, but that guy sounds like an ass. I wonder if they'll still be married 5 years from now.

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There is no single guiding principle or rule about a married person going off on his own or her own to hook up with others. You might want to read the forums here at Swingersboard about open marriage. It happens a lot but does not fit every swinger's taste and for some offends their sensibilities.

 

You, in other words, have to decide about this question. This complete dick who tried to accost you would be, in my opinion, a very poor example of a man in an open marriage. So don't judge based upon him.

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I'll play devil's advocate here and (only slightly) defend the guy coming on to you. 1) He did address your partner first (which I consider respectful to your relationship), 2) he didn't scurry away from you when your guy returned like he was doing something wrong, and 3) this couple had a lot of experience swinging, so they might have made the mistake of doing the usual and skipping all the "formalities"...like getting your name, for example, before shoving his hand down your top. These are about the only positive points I can give him.

 

Now for the more glaring problems. Wow.

 

1) You SAID you guys were new, and had no interest in playing...and he still continues to grope at you!!

2) He waited until your guy left before expressing any...ahem...interest in you. Comes across as sneaky and manipulative. NOT cool.

3) The "interest" he expressed is WAAAY over the top. How about a freaking handshake first?? Or maybe getting your name? Holy hell.

 

Just because you happen to be okay with non-monogamy does not mean you have to be okay with anybody and everybody doing whatever the hell they please with you. I agree, you've had a shitty run of luck so far. I have to say, though, that for a brand spanking new couple, you handled yourselves exceptionally well! We have a bit more experience than you guys do, but my social skills still suck. I'm probably more assertive/confident now than I have ever been, but I'm still vulnerable to those assholes who know how to manipulate the situations so it seems like I'm the asshole for having to "rudely" tell them to get their hand out from under my skirt. I mean yeah, of course you do it, but it pisses me off that they make it so I have to feel really uncomfortable doing so. That's probably a good rule of thumb: if you don't like what's happening or being proposed, and you're made to feel uncomfortable saying no, then the problem is not with you. It's them.

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There's never an excuse for being rude.

 

At risk of oversimplifying complex dynamics, an observation about the LS in general, and how that observation is manifest in different settings.

 

The observation:

 

There are generally two categories of people in the LS:

 

(1) Those who are there primarily to have fun with their partner. Typically they are compersive, meaning they experience joy when their partner is happy. They look and act like a couple even in LS situations.

 

(2) Those who are there primarily to have fun with someone else's partner. Typically they are self-focused. They are happy when they are happy. The act like they are single in LS situations.

 

Understand, having fun with your partner in the LS typically means playing with others. The point to be made is intent and behaviors.

 

Both the 60 year old SF and the aggressive married guy mentioned in the thread above are in group (2). They are acting like singles. We--and maybe most (all?) of those responding to your inquiry are in group (1).

 

This leaves our practical question of how to find the Group (1) folks and steer clear of the Group (2) folks. Some observations.

 

a. If you go to a large and uncurated gathering (a convention, a big boat cruise) you'll find both groups represented. However, group (2) will find you faster than group (1).

b. If you go to a curated gathering--an invitation-only house party for example--the host often brings group (1)s together.

c. If you curate on your own--texts and then maybe meeting in a public place for drinks--you'll run into (2)s and (1)s. But you'll be able to tell the difference just by watching how the couple interacts with each other and with you.

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