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Lionheart72

Why bareback?

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The desire for bareback sex comes up in discussion after discussion, and I must say, it puzzles me. I don't really see the appeal. I do have bareback sex with my wife but I don't particularly mind condoms. I've never really noticed that much of much difference in the general quality of the sex.

 

So, I thought I'd ask... what is the appeal of bareback sex?

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How do you freestylers vet against STDs and STIs? Play in closed, tested group? Hope for best? I realize condoms are not totally effective and I am not lecturing, just looking for good ideas.

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We are cutting out playing with strangers at clubs and multiple men (gangbang) parties for safety from STD reasons. But we have encountered reasonable, rational, condom compliant people who have encountered HPV and HSV.

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We are cutting out playing with strangers at clubs and multiple men (gangbang) parties for safety from STD reasons. But we have encountered reasonable, rational, condom compliant people who have encountered HPV and HSV.

 

You make a good point there that I think sometimes gets overlooked, and that is swinging sex isn't really different than any other sex in that it comes in less risky and more risky forms. I think many people would say swinging sex is in the extreme risk group no matter what, but that's because to the uninformed ALL swinging sex is strangers at clubs, gangbangs, etc. Nothing wrong with any of those things at all, rather fond of them ourselves, but I don't think it means you are totally throwing caution to the wind if you use a different risk assessment with a couple you know well and trust versus the fun with strangers you might have at a club one night.

 

I'm curious about your last statement too...are you saying you know people who faithfully use condoms no matter what but they have still ended up dealing with HPV and HSV? Not doubting it at all, entirely possible, but I wasn't sure if you meant they dealt with those things personally or had encountered them in others and that reinforced their decision on the condom question.

 

Bottom line, as padoc says, there is some risk no matter what and so you find your comfort zone and then go with it. It's not going to be the same for everyone, and that's perfectly ok.

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We have met people who used condoms 100% of the time and contracted HSV or HPV from swinging.

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Find a cute fluffy adorable kitten.

Now put on a glove to pet it.

 

LoL! I actually had a college room-mate who had a particular cute, fluffy adorable kitten. If you didn't put on a glove to pet her, your hand and arm would come away a scratched up bloody mess. Not playing to the metaphor, just literal truth that happens to fit the metaphor rather well. :)

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Another thing I hate about condoms is just the hassle and how it interferes with the flow and spontaneity of a play session. She's been giving you great oral and now wants it inside her...time to fumble around getting a condom on. You've been fucking and take a break to focus on her nipples or go down on her. You're totally focused on that so your erection fades a little bit but then when you're ready to get back to fucking...time to fumble around getting the condom on.

 

You know, I hear this a lot and my only thought is "you're doing it wrong."

 

It's like saying taking off your clothes interferes with the flow and spontaneity. After all, you have to fumble with buttons and zippers, arms and legs get stuck and where do you put things down... but that's not how it works at all. We habitually make the absurd and clumsy act of taking off our clothes part of the play. We choose to make it sexy. Hell, stripping is practically an art.

 

Approaching putting on a condom with the same mindset and it ceases to be an awkward action. Having a woman looking into my eyes with lust while slowly rolling her fingers down my cock is unbelievably sexy. Or teasing her, making wait, while I put it... that can be amazing. Or funny. Or fun. Or really whatever you want it be.

 

Putting on a condom only breaks " flow and spontaneity" if you come into it with the mindset that it will.

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That's pretty much my husband's view in a nutshell. Also like others, he loses sensitivity as he has gotten older and has trouble cumming with a condom, even though we buy the thinnest ones available.

 

As for me, I sometimes have dryness issue when it comes to condoms but not when it's bareback. I know I can always use lube but it just feels more organic and intimate without condoms. And I have to admit, I do like the feeling of a man cumming inside me and cum dripping out.

 

 

We are a new member here. Was lurking, but we want to join in the fun!

 

Rex has researched this topic in great detail.

 

When someone worries about disease what do they worry over?

 

#1) HSV & HPV are two common concerns. The most common forms of these are cold sores and warts. These are also transmitted thru oral contact and NOBODY uses condoms for that particular contact. Therefore the use of condoms for these infections is mute.

 

#2) The most common STD are bacterial. Gonorrhea, syphilis, chlamydia...

 

a) see number 1

 

b) in our age group (40-50 y/o) these are present in less than 4/100,000 in the population (CDC says so) and even then as reasonable adults we get those treated. Therefore those 3-4 random people per 100,000 only have those for a week or two in a given year.

 

A recent publication put the USA murder rate at 9/100,000. So you are 2-3x more likely to be murdered than get a sex disease from another adult in my age group.

 

3) the most hideous are HIV & HEP C. When we play we do not participate in any of the risk factors for those particular diseases. Poop and blood are the vectors for those. Yukky!

 

So overall, we simply don't worry. We visit the physician when we are ill, get it treated and move on. Don't you? Additionally, we have never caught any STD of any form.

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I don't understand RexandAmy's analysis on condoms and Hsv and Hpv. Condoms do not reliably protect against these viruses. You can use dental dams for oral and condoms for intercourse and you still may get Hsv and/or Hpv. High risk Hpv can result in cervical cancer. I believe 80% of the public has had Hpv. If you play with 4 couples, you will come in contact with it. I do not want to be a party pooper, but one has to be realistic.

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b) in our age group (40-50 y/o) these are present in less than 4/100,000 in the population (CDC says so) and even then as reasonable adults we get those treated. Therefore those 3-4 random people per 100,000 only have those for a week or two in a given year.

 

As a data guy, I just briefly want to take issue with this statistic. While it may be true of the general population, it is well worth remembering that swingers represent a high risk subgroup. While I do not have the statistic on hand, and frankly would be surprised if anyone has actually done a representative study, it is a reasonable supposition that because swingers have more sex partners than members of the general population, there is a greater likelihood of swingers contracting such diseases... and because swingers are a relative small and self-contained subgroup, it is therefore likely that the diseases - once introduced into the subgroup would have a higher relative rate of infection.

 

Also the population of swingers in general, while it skews toward the 40-50 age range, is not exclusive to that age range. With younger partners being both desirably and statistically more likely to be carriers, the likelihood that they will introduce the infection into the subgroup can also be supposed to higher than average.

 

Or, in the words of Mark Twain - "Lies, damn lies and statistics." :)

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When I used to dance there was a frequent customer in his 50's or 60's and he said he had sex with strippers and prostitutes all the time with no condom but never worried bc he washed his dick with rubbing alcohol before he had sex with his wife! I was in total disbelief at how the older crowd was so uneducated on STDs. Having the view that it won't happen to me bc it's not likely in my demographic is startling.

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Swingers are a high risk group.The average 40-50 year old does not have as many sex partners. I would not apply the statistics for largely monogamous people to people who are having sex with 10, 20 or more partners a year.

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It's like saying taking off your clothes interferes with the flow and spontaneity. After all, you have to fumble with buttons and zippers, arms and legs get stuck and where do you put things down... but that's not how it works at all. We habitually make the absurd and clumsy act of taking off our clothes part of the play. We choose to make it sexy. Hell, stripping is practically an art.

 

I see your point, and if it's just a one time thing, then I would agree, you can easily make it part of sex just like the taking clothes off can be made part of sex in a way that adds to, not takes away from, the whole experience. At least for me, it's kind of a one time deal though...yes, the first time she slides her panties down is really sexy, but in an extended play session where you are moving from one thing to another and back again, then putting her panties back on at each transition and then sliding them down again doesn't work the same as it did the first time.

 

Swingers are a high risk group. The average 40-50 year old does not have as many sex partners. I would not apply the statistics for largely monogamous people to people who are having sex with 10, 20 or more partners a year.

 

That's very true in that you need to base your risk assessment on the tree level, not the forest level. Along those same lines though, not all trees are the same and I would say there are lots of swingers, us included, who don't have 10 different partners in a year. If one's swinging style is more of the exclusive small group or couple variety, where most of your experiences are with the same people, then that changes things a bit and puts it back more in the middle between totally monogamous and frequent swinger with different partners each time. One only has to look at the infidelity rate too to see that a fair number of those "monogamous" 40-50 year olds probably have more notches on their bedpost than many swingers do.

 

We're all saying the same thing though...evaluate things as honestly as possible taking all factors into account and make an informed decision on what's right for you.

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I have no problems with wearing a condom, but I prefer bareback (vaginal) sex for the warmth, moisture, and intimacy. These subtle nuances are lost when I'm wearing a condom; sex becomes as insipid as food without flavor. Take a soft breeze, for instance. It feels better against my skin after I've felt a woman's warmth and wetness. I lose that when when I wear a condom.

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I have herpes 2. I am asymtomatic. I do not have outbreaks, gave it to my daughters father and didn't know I had it. You cannot trust what someone says... if they have something or not, because they can have it and not know it.

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Reading this thread and others on this same topic. I am not in the same demographic as most of you. Being in my 20s my sexual history is not as long or as extensive as those of you posting. My younger years I would say I almost always had the guy wear protection. Almost always not totally always and I have never had oral sex giving or getting with protection. The only reason for not using protection back then was it just happened. I am smart enough to know about all the diseases yet in the moment things happen. I was more worried about pregnancy after and prayed for my next period. Late in my junior year in HS I asked my doctor for a prescription for birth control. I knew that didn't stop stds. I also carried a condom with me on dates. Most of my dates that ended with sex the guys wore protection. A few times there were accidents and I never knew that something slipped off. I can't tell if that happens. I have had longer term boyfriends that after time we had sex without. I am now living with my boyfriend and we stopped using condoms. Then I got involved in an unplanned and completely surprising threesome not involving my boyfriend. My first time with a girlfriend and my thoughts was more with her than the guy and the sex I had with him was bare. I did worry but my friend assured me he was clean but I still worried. When I admitted to my boyfriend what happened he was more concerned than I was. Now that we have engaged in swinging a few times I know I should push for protection but I have gone along with what the others were doing. Most have not used condoms. I into this is reckless

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The desire for bareback sex comes up in discussion after discussion, and I must say, it puzzles me. I don't really see the appeal. I do have bareback sex with my wife but I don't particularly mind condoms. I've never really noticed that much of much difference in the general quality of the sex.

 

So, I thought I'd ask... what is the appeal of bareback sex?

 

 

I've never met a guy, in real life, who doesn't find the difference in sensation between wearing a condom and going raw significant. You, my friend, are in the minority. Condoms are clearly a necessary evil, but when couples find that elusive FWB couple in the lifestyle, I completely understand why they would forgo using them. I don't know who dislikes them more, my wife or myself?

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A fun related note; I've recently had a health issue that could have potentially been caused by an STD, though a somewhat low chance. Other possibilities weren't providing an answer, and the doctor was puzzled. So, I asked for an STD test, checking off a number of STDs for which I wanted to be checked. My doctor knows I've been married for quite a long while now, so he was perplexed. I could see him begin to form the question on his lips, but he never brought himself to ask. It was hard not to smile :) Everything came back clean thankfully.

 

I'm of the belief that there is no good reason not to tell your doctor that you are non-monogamous. My wife and I have the same general physician and it's in our records. I don't have to blurt out "Hey, we're swingers!" but he knows what I do for a living, what my hobbies are and enough background on my sex life so that he can consider that when suggesting tests and examining results.

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Selectivity is the key. Random partners and mechanical sex has never been for us. We share intimacy with our playmates and are more than reasonably certain that they are disease free. Condoms reduce the level of intimacy for us and are a firm rule on those few occasions that we attend and play at on premises clubs. All of life is a risk, most hobbies, even knitting, entail some risk so we strive to eliminate the risk of STD through our selection process. So far its worked..

 

Ok.. what would you suggest for someone like me? Maybe I don't have the right to participate. Do I try to find couples who have hsv2? What if they have something in addition to that. So I guess everyone interested in one another should head to the doctor to get tested.. then just stay monogamous in that group...

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I don't think this is a rights issue. You can do whatever you want to do however, decency, courtesy and simple humanity dictates that you not expose your partners to your affliction. Finding compatible partners is really hard, finding them with the added complication of hsv2 is nearly impossible. That being said, I have seen a very few profiles on swinger sites where the couple or single indicates that they are infected as well.

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Ok.. what would you suggest for someone like me? Maybe I don't have the right to participate. Do I try to find couples who have hsv2? What if they have something in addition to that. So I guess everyone interested in one another should head to the doctor to get tested.. then just stay monogamous in that group...

 

There's HSwing.com if someone is interested in finding other couples with HSV.

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From a female perspective, certainly intercourse without a condom is more pleasureful. After all, how many of us require our hubby’s to wear one. It feels better, its more versatile in terms of moving back and forth between oral and vaginal play, and, if you allow it, the warm gush at the end is rewarding. For guys that are polite enough to offer to withdraw just before climax, you can quickly go down and reward them by orally accepting their climax. Unfortunately, there are other, very real concerns about diseases and infections. Most problematic, at least in my experience, are that the guys who are most insistent about no condom are frequently the ones where we as women must be most insistent that they wear one. It’s really not up for negotiation with me. If there is any resistance at all when I lay out the initial ground rule, its easy enough to find a more cooperative volunteer.

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From a female perspective, certainly intercourse without a condom is more pleasureful. After all, how many of us require our hubby’s to wear one. It feels better, its more versatile in terms of moving back and forth between oral and vaginal play, and, if you allow it, the warm gush at the end is rewarding. For guys that are polite enough to offer to withdraw just before climax, you can quickly go down and reward them by orally accepting their climax. Unfortunately, there are other, very real concerns about diseases and infections. Most problematic, at least in my experience, are that the guys who are most insistent about no condom are frequently the ones where we as women must be most insistent that they wear one. It’s really not up for negotiation with me. If there is any resistance at all when I lay out the initial ground rule, its easy enough to find a more cooperative volunteer.

 

I rarely ejaculate during play. That is more for Amy. But if I was and my partner said "don't cum in me, cum in my mouth" that would be hot. If that is your preference, just tell them!

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There's HSwing.com if someone is interested in finding other couples with HSV.

WOW!! Thanx for the website re. swingers w herpes! I appreciate all the wonderful feedback from everyone:))

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My wife and I have been married 43 years, swinging 40. In the 70's most all STDs could be cured with a shot. But my wife and I never used protection. It was stupid and careless. But we were young and a lot to learn and hated the feel of a condom. We made it through that period of our lives without any STDs and no unwanted pregnancies truthfully by DUMB LUCK. By the time Herpes, Hepatitis, and HIV arrived, we had already established our friends, we knew who we could trust, was clean, through making kids and we guys got vasectomies. In short, we were fucking everyone's spouses, keeping out diseases, and we guys were sterile, so we don't wear condoms. So "WHY BAREBACK?" It's the natural way of having sex and it feels so damn good and lots of fun. But, a rule of thumb is: Use common sense.

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I like wearing a condom. It's a different feeling than bare, not better, not worse, just different - I will say that finding the right condom is an important factor. I usually wear a condom with Ms A, as the condom is smoother, maintains lube longer, and with age related lubrication issues, makes penetration more enjoyable for her. When playing with others, we're happy to use barriers for oral and gloves for digital stim too - we just treat them as additional toys. In a group situation, it makes switching from partner to partner a no brainer, tear off the condom, toss the glove, grab another sheet of saranwrap and go. Bare hand for me, gloved hand for you.

 

No judgement, really, you do you. But this works for us.

 

Really, you can psych yourself out of anything, but the interesting thing is you can psych your self in to things too.

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I never thought people would put on gloves or use Saran Wrap for sex. I wrote before about condom use and I still say I don't feel a difference but guys say they do. The only time a surgical glove has been down there is my gyn and I understand that but if a sex partner did that I think I would say what the hell. I have never given or got oral sex with protection. I don't think it has ever been an issue with any partner.

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I like wearing a condom. It's a different feeling than bare, not better, not worse, just different - I will say that finding the right condom is an important factor. I usually wear a condom with Ms A, as the condom is smoother, maintains lube longer, and with age related lubrication issues, makes penetration more enjoyable for her. When playing with others, we're happy to use barriers for oral and gloves for digital stim too - we just treat them as additional toys. In a group situation, it makes switching from partner to partner a no brainer, tear off the condom, toss the glove, grab another sheet of saranwrap and go. Bare hand for me, gloved hand for you.

 

No judgement, really, you do you. But this works for us.

 

Really, you can psych yourself out of anything, but the interesting thing is you can psych your self in to things too.

 

I would run screaming from the room.

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The desire for bareback sex comes up in discussion after discussion, and I must say, it puzzles me. I don't really see the appeal. I do have bareback sex with my wife but I don't particularly mind condoms. I've never really noticed that much of much difference in the general quality of the sex.

 

So, I thought I'd ask... what is the appeal of bareback sex?

 

This must be a joke. You never noticed a difference in the general quality of the sex?

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I just saw this thread and would say the following on bareback versus condoms. Here is my guidelines, in part borrowed from another one of my posts.

 

I tend to see it as a three step process which I actually like.

 

1. Traditional Swinging where all the norms apply. I tend to do this on occasions but not regularly. Use a condom.

2. Fuck Buddies is where we met and had a good time and want to repeat that, generally swinging norms apply. Normally use a condom.

3. Friends with benefits where we hang out with each other and families do meet. Being friends is as important as the sex and the sex gets even better as we learn what flips each other switch. At that point swinging norms are not usually in force. A FWB is someone that you hang out with but realistically you are not going to make them your SO in life. I have two FWB for ten plus years, we know each others sexual health histories. This realm for me is bareback friendly.

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We only have condomless sex with our most closest friends, people we know for years.

In fact last 8 years I have only received cum inside me from 3 different males including hubby.

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I find sex less pleasurable with them, I can feel a difference. They interrupt things and get in the way. Men generally perform worse. I like men cumming inside me.

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For both of us, it's a "mental" stimulation as well as to my two "friends with benefits." Be it with them or the small, private "club," all have been tested and are done so at least a couple times per year and after knowing them and their life "situations" as well as commitment to keeping it within the group.

 

Over the years, I believe I've learned a few things about the male sexual "psychology" and both my husband and close "sexual associated" agree that men are very sensitive about their genitals and their semen. While I make no judgment for those women who are "grossed out" by semen, men are almost always elated with a sexual encounter with a woman who actually appreciates and wants their semen. Don't get me wrong, I do NOT particularly appreciate the taste of it, but I do want it in my body, will swallow it, respect it, and thank him/them for their "gift." In my experience, men who know you WANT their semen, when you're grateful for it, make better and more confident lovers!

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Two reasons - both the men and women who we play with like the feel of skin on vagina, and both like the cum in there.

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I truely love unprotected sex for so many reasons... But let me explain before you label me as stupid. There are probably 7 men I have unprotected sex with. They are close to us and there is a next level of trust going on. I don't let everyone pump away down there. It's all psychological.

I feel more connected to my partner when our juices really flow. This may just be in my head but i think a man feels better unwrapped... On the more external part anyway. I can feel his heat, the head, the skin pulling on his shaft, etc. To me it feels right, the way it's supposed to be. The taboos make it even better. When a man that isn't my husband cums in me I feel empowered, like I truely took all he had to offer. His orgasm feels better on my end, the way a man really leans into a woman when he ejaculates is driven.

 

Ive never heard a man say a woman feels better with a rubber. Pussy may feel pleasant with a rubber but it can beat the real deal of truly feeling a woman. And for men it's instinct, survival of the species. Cumming in a woman is hard wired, when a man can accomplish that it makes his orgasm gratifying at a cave man level, even if he knows the real outcome. I'm sure I could rattle off more reasons why unprotected sex is better but I'll stop here.

 

Unprotected sex isn't something that should be taken lightly. But when it can happen it should be enjoyed by both.

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Well said... I prefer without "but" when we are in the LS we use protection. One time with a good friend we did a MFM and it just kind of happened without. The sex is so much better without "but".

 

 

 

I truely love unprotected sex for so many reasons... But let me explain before you label me as stupid. There are probably 7 men I have unprotected sex with. They are close to us and there is a next level of trust going on. I don't let everyone pump away down there. It's all psychological.

I feel more connected to my partner when our juices really flow. This may just be in my head but i think a man feels better unwrapped... On the more external part anyway. I can feel his heat, the head, the skin pulling on his shaft, etc. To me it feels right, the way it's supposed to be. The taboos make it even better. When a man that isn't my husband cums in me I feel empowered, like I truely took all he had to offer. His orgasm feels better on my end, the way a man really leans into a woman when he ejaculates is driven.

 

Ive never heard a man say a woman feels better with a rubber. Pussy may feel pleasant with a rubber but it can beat the real deal of truly feeling a woman. And for men it's instinct, survival of the species. Cumming in a woman is hard wired, when a man can accomplish that it makes his orgasm gratifying at a cave man level, even if he knows the real outcome. I'm sure I could rattle off more reasons why unprotected sex is better but I'll stop here.

 

Unprotected sex isn't something that should be taken lightly. But when it can happen it should be enjoyed by both.

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Why??? Dumb question. I could write a full page as to why. That said for us since it’s basically a requirement, thus we’re very selective who we play with. So selective that we’ve only played with two couples Since the start. For example, our current play couple we’ve known for over 8 years. Our first full swap happened little over 2 yrs ago. Over that time we’ve grown to love them and most importantly trust them. So when the moment arrived, bareback while discussed before was no issue, the only way. To us, caring makes the sex /play x10 better. To each their own, no doubt. Love reading others experiences but that’s my reality.

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Certainly it’s more dangerous but also way more practical. Swinging, especial when its MFM or such, there tends to be more of intercourse with on guy, him pulling out and now maybe oral with him while the other guy has intercourse and so forth. This becomes a bit of mood breaker when condoms are going on and coming off and going on again. And, for me personally, I enjoy the feeling of a man cumming inside of me. And if he pulls out before or after and I want to perform more oral, I hate having to take off the condom and incur the smell and taste that remain.

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