Does anyone else ever get sick of the 'double life'?

Firstly, we should probably change our user name by now as it doesn't really apply anymore. However, my issue is that sometimes I get sick of all the secrecy that I have to live portions of my life under. I mean I love swinging, I really LOVE swinging, and sometimes it just seems hard to keep exciting parts of your life a secret. I think my biggest issue comes when I'm at work and the guys start talking about their adventures in whatever it is that they do in their outside lives while I sit around in silence, rarely having anything of interest to say to them. The wife is lucky, she confides our every move to her bosses while they get to laugh about her secret life around the office, and enjoy keeping her sexy secrets! But me, I'm stuck looking like the dullest man on earth around a bunch of closed minded tradesman, and not smirking after, lets say partaking in an orgy! Don't get me wrong, there is a reason for the silence that I am all too aware of - it's not like we want family finding out about any of our extramarital adventures, but it's sometimes hard not to have people to, I don't know, brag about these adventures to on a Monday morning break. Does anyone else ever feel like that?

Actually, no, I do not have these thoughts. Out of the dozen or so with whom I associate at the place of employment, there are only one or two who feel compelled to play a game, "OK, so can you top that?" on Monday morning. The noisy ones have no secrets owing to the fact that nothing more interesting than what they put out onto the table ever happens to them. Maybe not even that much. The quiet ones, I suspect, are the ones who just might have secret lives. And you know what? I don't want to know. I have a feeling I might be horrified if I did know. And you know what else? They'd be just as horrified to know about me, although I have ofter wondered that if I ever told them the truth, "I was in a hot tub with three naked women", they would simply assume I had gone over to the side of the tellers-of-tall-tales.

Women share things owing to the fact that it is in their nature. Men do not, as men feel that if another man knows somethig he holds a power over you. Those are the facts of life, son.

I get what you're saying, but it really isn't an issue for me. I'm a private person, so I don't "share" things in general.

So, I'm good with my secret and letting them think their escapades are the bees knees.

But me, I'm stuck looking like the dullest man on earth around a bunch of closed minded tradesman, and not smirking after, lets say partaking in an orgy! Don't get me wrong, there is a reason for the silence that I am all too aware of - it's not like we want family finding out about any of our extramarital adventures, but it's sometimes hard not to have people to, I don't know, brag about these adventures to on a Monday morning break. Does anyone else ever feel like that?

Are you the dullest man on earth? No, you are not. But, maybe you do need a confidante if you need others to validate your adventurous double life (and I don't mean that in a bad way at all). That would be especially true if you were an extravert, where for some it may seem like something didn't fully happen if it couldn't be talked about later. If there is nobody in your life with whom you can talk, you might have to create a blog or something to get it all out.

Anyway, no, I don't ever feel the need to share anything. Which leads me to this:

Women share things owing to the fact that it is in their nature. Men do not, as men feel that if another man knows somethig he holds a power over you. Those are the facts of life, son.

Definitely female here and definitely don't ever feel like I'm violating my own nature by keeping my own counsel. Remember that saying about how the only way something between two people stays a secret is if one of them is dead? That's me. Mr. Doe, on the other hand, feels like he's in violation of the social contract if he doesn't blurt out every detail of his existence, including sex, if it comes up. He's definitely male.

Actually, we kind of enjoy the partners in crime, it's our little secret, aspect of it. I do get tired of the bragging of other guys and oohing and aahing over going to a strip club or even somewhere like Hooters and then joking about making sure the wives don't find out. The few times I've gotten dragged into those situations, the thought does flit through my mind about how just a few choice words from me would put some jaws on the table and make them shut their traps for at least a little while.

Sometimes it seems as though life would be easier if everyone just knew. However, we both know that most of our family would have a difficult time being accepting, and my co-workers would certainly look down on it and ridicule us. The latter doesn't necessarily bother me, but I'd just rather not deal with it. I'm 46, and of the 8 teachers in our little corner of the building, only two of us are over 32, so we do have different friendship circles anyway. Besides, it's kind of fun when we talk about going out with or hanging out with some friends. Because of our age, they probably assume a rousing game of cards or going to listen to some "old people" music somewhere for a very boring evening out. We like thinking "if they only knew...."

I do see what you're saying, but I have to admit, I kind of like having a secret life that I share only with my wife. To anyone looking in from the outside, we are just a normal couple deeply in love, but I have to smile sometimes when I think of what they don't know.

Although initially we were secretive, as we moved more into polyamorous relationships it was more difficult to keep things secret without excluding our other partners and making them feel terrible or unimportant. These days I don't broadcast my relationships, but I don't keep them secret, either. All my family know that I live with my partner and her husband and that I have another partner, also. Both my partners come to my office and visit and I go to lunch with both, sometimes at the same time. Coworkers either don't suspect anything, don't want to ask or don't care. All my partners and their families are welcome at my family's functions, also. It feels good to be "out" and just lived life as I want to.

I'm a private person, so I don't "share" things in general

This is why I find the double life so hard. I am a very open person and it kills me not telling people about the great experiences we have and how our friends would have so much fun if they opened their mind to this

Around the water cooler on Monday mornings is the hardest time for me in wanting to share what we did over the weekend - sometimes I want to do it for the sheer shock value of it, it would go something like this:

Coworker: Good morning, A. Did you do anything fun this weekend?

Me: Oh, just the usual...went to the swingers club, danced around in lingerie, and then had hot sex with a couple we just met while a few people watched.

Oh yeah, the look on their faces would be priceless. Nobody has a clue and would never suspect it of me...however, once in awhile an observant person will see a smile creep over my face as I say "Oh, you know...just relaxing around the house" and I see the puzzled look as they are trying to figure me out.

Yes, I enjoy the secret.

I am not a super competitive person but sometimes when someone is bragging about a really exciting weekend they and the "crazy"party they went to, I can hardly keep my mouth shut

It's not a double life. It is, however, rational compartmentalization. Why make it difficult for anyone to get work done in the workplace? There's already enough gossip and tongue-wagging. Just say "we had a wonderful dinner with old friends" and leave it at that.

If you were monogamous, would you tell your coworkers about the sex you were having with your wife?

I don't really find it hard to keep secret from those who don't need to know, but I do have vanilla friends who do know. I find it harder sometimes to not seem totally dull if I'm trying to avoid the topic, sometimes I feel like I don't have anything else to talk about.

I actually do enjoy talking somewhat about my sex life with coworkers. Not in great detail mind you, but they helped with design when I said I was installing a sex swing, and they know if I've gotten lucky during the week!

It's not that I find it difficult to keep the secret, and it's not that I don't understand the consequences of divulging the details of our lifestyle to the wrong people, I've been keeping the secret from most people for five years now. I think the novelty of having a secret life has worn off, and quite frankly the most interesting conversations that I have are with close friends and are open discussions about sex. I seem to be different from the guys I work with, and am bored to death listening to them prattle on about cars and snow mobiles. I have no intention of spilling the beans and I am not in danger of slipping up, but gawd, how I would like to have an interesting conversation come out of the place I spend most of my time! Maybe this says more about my vocation than my secret.

This is VERY interesting to me right now because I want to tell my friends and shock them, but I realize once I do that, I can't undo it. My dilemma is that I would LOVE to brag about the super hot girl I banged last night who was not my wife, but:

1) I can't tell my regular friends: They are all SUPER vanilla and would FREAK OUT if they knew. Heck, our closest friends found out we went to a strip club and almost stopped talking to us.

2) I can't tell anybody in the lifestyle because, well, it just isn't a big deal to them... they would either say, "So, I banged her the night before." or "Ok, now I'm going to go after her too!"

Actually I know how you feel, as this is something I've thought about since we re-entered the LS and have caught myself slipping up, not necessarily by accident in two recent examples.

The first was when I mentioned to one of my co-workers about a customer of ours known for hiring flirtatious middle-aged women and how one of them in particular I'd like to take home for both myself and my wife. He responded by saying "So you're one of those?", while never actually specifying what "one of those" was. I then joked that in reality my wife would kill me for even suggesting it and he believed it, thinking the whole issue was one big joke that guys only wished was true. If only he knew...

The second happened actually just the other day when we were shopping. There was a 24 "value pack" of Trojans in one of the discount carts and I pointed it out to the wife telling her "Look, party time." She gave me "shut-up" look as there was at least two other shoppers close enough to hear us. I responded "Yeah, that's too many. I mean it's not like we're swingers or something." Unlike my previous joke to my co-worker, this time I really believe Mrs. Fours was capable of killing me and said no more under her disapproving stare .

While I'm very careful with family, even co-workers I can only dare take the chance by making it seem like I'm joking and then only to those who will believe it to be so. The funny thing is when it comes down to it, most of the guys if they knew would likely be high-fiving me rather then condemnation and I'd never be risking my job since I don't consider myself one of the self-important "high-profile" couples one sees in LS ads (yeah...that's a pet peeve of mine).

Since I'm by nature a private person and don't usually even discuss family matters with co-workers, that does make it easier, but still sometimes the "I've got a secret" thing does feel like it wants to come out especially when it comes to the male sexual bragging ritual and I realize I could really blow my co-workers boring vanilla lives out of the water if I wanted to.

Today we were talking at work about overdoing it drinking. I said that happened to me a few months ago because someone was buying me drinks. My co-worker said, "What, are you a swinger?" I just said, "No just out with friends." I'm pretty sure she doesn't think I'm a swinger, but it's funny how the term pops up in everyday conversation.

I never knew that someone buying you drinks was a sign you were a swinger!!

I never knew that someone buying you drinks was a sign you were a swinger!!

That same thing happened to my wife. We were at bar for a work trip. A man bought my wife a drink and her friend said. What are you gonna sleep with him. My wife just kept it to herself knowing that latter Him my wife and his wife were gonna hook up in a room later.

We like to keep the secret to ourselves. Ever since I was a kid I wanted to belong to a secret society... Now we do.. Wanna join our little club...?

Although initially we were secretive, as we moved more into polyamorous relationships it was more difficult to keep things secret without excluding our other partners and making them feel terrible or unimportant. These days I don't broadcast my relationships, but I don't keep them secret, either. All my family know that I live with my partner and her husband and that I have another partner, also. Both my partners come to my office and visit and I go to lunch with both, sometimes at the same time. Coworkers either don't suspect anything, don't want to ask or don't care. All my partners and their families are welcome at my family's functions, also. It feels good to be "out" and just lived life as I want to.

THAT must be an amazing feeling! My wife and I are 6 months into what has become and exclusive polyamorous relationship. They have a family and kids and discretion is important to them. We have no kids and frankly would LOVE my family and friends to know so we could have our lovers around and involved in our extended "non secret" lives. Our family and friends KNOW about our lover couple but they think they are vanilla friends...maybe they suspect something but it's never discussed. I just think it would be an amazing feeling to be OUT with it.

We are both very private and discreet. And we love our naughty little shared secrets, just the two of us. People who know us generally observe how into each other we are. And Mrs. S mentions to her gal pals that me, Mr. S, keeps her very satisfied (which gives me a boner, being portrayed as Studly!). And if I'm with the boys and someone mentions dull marital doldrums I'll just keep quiet and try to hide my "cat that ate three canary's luscious pussy's, and fucked them, too, at the house party" look.

Love our little "us only" secrets!

I am a private person, so I don't really tell people much about what goes on in my life. I guess cause I am older, as are most of the people I work with, there are not a lot of sexual escapade stories floating around the office, I am sure the younger ones may have them, but never bring them up in front of me. But when they do I actually get a bit of a kick out of not telling them. They are usually so proud of the over the top thing they have done, I get a kick out thinking to myself "man that is tame, if you only knew what I did this weekend". But why burst their bubble.

There are times I wish it were easier to say we swing, like saying we play softball or water ski. But only when we have some interest in someone. It would be great to be able to say we swing to someone we find attractive to see what they think, if they are prospective or current swingers, without worrying about the repercussions. But alas in in the business world, that would open a can of worms on so many levels that it would never be plausible to do. Beyond that, I don't care about sharing.

Yes.... And brings up a point my wife and I talk about. How many people you know that have had affairs that don't keep it a secret At least at my job at any one time more than one person has something on the side and not really judged harshly. Yet if I were to openly say we swing, holy hell would break loose.

So it's ok to fuck around on your wife but not fuck around WITH the wife. Not sure I get that double standard.

Yet if I were to openly say we swing, holy hell would break loose.

I'm not entirely sure that's true. Yes, there are judgmental, disapproving folks everywhere, but they're also judgmental and disapproving of the color you paint your front door and the way you raise your children. Is part of our collective wisdom that people would disapprove (or the world would end) coming from our own internal judgments about sex or from our perception that what we're doing is naughty?

Until last year, I worked in a field that made me very protective of the organizations with which I was involved, which meant being on the downlow about swinging, but even there I wove swinger friends into my vanilla life (including professionally) and nothing bad happened.

This past weekend we were at a workshop and went out to dinner with some fellow workshop participants, none of them swingers. Instead of stopping where I usually do when the subject comes up, which is saying we're not monogamous, I explained quite graphically how exactly that worked. Not only did nobody die of rage or shame, it opened up an amazing conversation for everyone. In addition, Mr. Doe outs himself fairly frequently and nothing bad ever happens, unless you count the cuddles he gets from women who feel free to do so, knowing I won't care.

So, I wonder if the double life we're leading is really all that necessary in every part of our lives.

I agree with both of the last two posts, however I think judgment or acceptance will be based not only on the individual or if things are being done on the sly or not, but maybe more importantly the context of what one might reveal about LS participation.

For instance at many of the places I've worked at, I'm certain at least of good portion of the guys would have been envious had SOME of my LS activity become common knowledge. Had I revealed to them my experiences in the context of MFF sex I have no doubt I would have received some high-fives as well as "Wish I could convince my wife to do that" as I believe there's no shortage of men who fantasize about having free license to other women but will never come to fruition due to their SO. The added factor of my wife participating with the other woman would only earn me more "points" due to the average man's girl-on-girl 3 some fantasies.

As far as the woman I've worked with, though the impression would likely not be as favorable, but there would have been a small portion who I think who would have been intrigued as well and changed their perception of me of the quiet unassuming guy into something more positive and maybe made our working relationship more flirtatious.

However once I added the extra "M" in the equation would the majority tide turn against me I'm sure. Those same guys who would be so gung-ho of having access to other pussy and/or seeing their woman and the other female in action, would no doubt suddenly become "Hell no. No way is another guy touching my girl!" If they knew that not only does my wife have the same freedom as me, but that I ENJOY seeing her with other men, their opinions would have no doubt done a complete 360.

This is especially true at my current employer where the majority due to age and ethnic/cultural factors are very possessive about their wives or girlfriends, despite all the sexual bragging and banter and any revelation would definitely have to be selective as there would be a fine line between being "The Man" to someone "not normal" and thus like certain vanilla sexual acts, it's sometimes not THAT you reveal, but WHAT you reveal that makes all the difference in how you're received.

Is part of our collective wisdom that people would disapprove (or the world would end) coming from our own internal judgments about sex or from our perception that what we're doing is naughty?

And does our continuation of the double life contribute to society being less than accepting of different types of lifestyles? I know people like to be private or don't wish to share everything about their lives--especially sex. But is it equivalent to homosexuals "staying in the closet" because of the fear of being judged and persecuted? There was a speech that Wentworth Miller gave that made me wonder how many people go to great lengths to hide who they are or what they do. You don't have to shout it from the mountain tops but I don't think we should be so afraid or ashamed. Or maybe it's more that I wish we didn't have to feel so afraid to be more open.

And does our continuation of the double life contribute to society being less than accepting of different types of lifestyles? I know people like to be private or don't wish to share everything about their lives--especially sex. But is it equivalent to homosexuals "staying in the closet" because of the fear of being judged and persecuted? There was a speech that Wentworth Miller gave that made me wonder how many people go to great lengths to hide who they are or what they do. You don't have to shout it from the mountain tops but I don't think we should be so afraid or ashamed. Or maybe it's more that I wish we didn't have to feel so afraid to be more open.

I'm still thinking my way through this, but I'm pretty certain I don't actually care about society's acceptance. Not only is it insufficiently concrete as an entity, but living a life with choices based on acceptance from pretty much anyone or anything sounds like a fool's game.

It's interesting that you mentioned closeted homosexuals. One of my uncles was gay and went so far as to get married to try to hide it or maybe just make it go away. He was charming and pretty much everyone loved him, he never had trouble finding work or friends and at least on the outside it all seemed to be working. He ended up killing himself. Here's the thing, though, I think the bulk of the hatred and persecution he faced was internal rather than from society.

I think as swingers we might be doing some of that ourselves. Yeah, I think if you need acceptance or validation, you probably shouldn't be telling your priest or your parents, and I wouldn't be talking about it at work, because I don't actually think sex talk belongs in the workplace, but I've never encountered any disapproval from those I've told. I suspect I'll keep on being open about it when the subject comes up.

I'm so sorry to hear that about your uncle.

I'm still thinking my way through this, but I'm pretty certain I don't actually care about society's acceptance. Not only is it insufficiently concrete as an entity, but living a life with choices based on acceptance from pretty much anyone or anything sounds like a fool's game.

I think a lot of people eventually don't care about society's acceptance but it's the side benefits of it is what matters. If society is more accepting then there isn't as much of a backlash when it does come out that they are swingers. This can be in terms of being disowned by family or losing jobs. And some people may struggle internally that they have to conform with society's "norm" or else they are doing something wrong. It's so easy to say it's society's fault or it's the individual person's fault for giving in and not having the strength to stand up for themselves but I see it as a conjoined twin syndrome. A society can't exist without the people within it and a person can't live without the society. They feed on each other to survive but they can also be detrimental to each other as well. Does change occur when we remain hidden in fear of what can happen to us? Or does change occur when we step outside of that fear and refuse to allow society's fear to control us?

I think a lot of people eventually don't care about society's acceptance but it's the side benefits of it is what matters. If society is more accepting then there isn't as much of a backlash when it does come out that they are swingers. This can be in terms of being disowned by family or losing jobs. And some people may struggle internally that they have to conform with society's "norm" or else they are doing something wrong. It's so easy to say it's society's fault or it's the individual person's fault for giving in and not having the strength to stand up for themselves but I see it as a conjoined twin syndrome. A society can't exist without the people within it and a person can't live without the society. They feed on each other to survive but they can also be detrimental to each other as well. Does change occur when we remain hidden in fear of what can happen to us? Or does change occur when we step outside of that fear and refuse to allow society's fear to control us?

I think we're coming from such different vantage points that reaching any sort of consensus of the group mind might be difficult, even though I don't think we disagree all that much. The thrust of my viewpoint is that society isn't all that condemning and for many people the stakes attached to being a swinger are far lower than their perceptions of the risks. That even some of the perceived risks are merely some internalized idea of the dangers of being open about swinging rather than actual, inevitable consequences.

Rather than strength of mind, I'm talking about real vs. perceived risk, so fact vs. perception. Also, that society is not some monolith but in fact is made of people, some of whom swing, some of whom might be horrified (but most of them don't have any power in our lives) and most of whom don't actually care, so worrying about society or feeling a need to conform to a standard that doesn't actually exist, except in our own minds, and then working to overcome it is mostly a matter of changing our own perception. In other words, it's an internal process.

You gave me a Futurama quote last night and I'm going to return the favor and give you one from Dune: Fear is the mind killer.

I think a lot of this would depend on what your role in said society was.

School teacher of young children who gets outed in the community as a swinger, you are going to have a bad time.

Artist who gets outed as a swinger, you won't even get a second thought.

I think we're coming from such different vantage points that reaching any sort of consensus of the group mind might be difficult, even though I don't think we disagree all that much. The thrust of my viewpoint is that society isn't all that condemning and for many people the stakes attached to being a swinger are far lower than their perceptions of the risks. That even some of the perceived risks are merely some internalized idea of the dangers of being open about swinging rather than actual, inevitable consequences.

 

Rather than strength of mind, I'm talking about real vs. perceived risk, so fact vs. perception. Also, that society is not some monolith but in fact is made of people, some of whom swing, some of whom might be horrified (but most of them don't have any power in our lives) and most of whom don't actually care, so worrying about society or feeling a need to conform to a standard that doesn't actually exist, except in our own minds, and then working to overcome it is mostly a matter of changing our own perception. In other words, it's an internal process.

 

You gave me a Futurama quote last night and I'm going to return the favor and give you one from Dune: Fear is the mind killer.

I'll concede to you about the group mind...I haven't been as open with a vanilla group like you have so you probably have a firmer grasp one how they react. However, I will say that when I think about my family knowing or how the public reacts with knowledge of swinger events, I tend to think they will be very condemning. (Heck, my mom was just chastising me about doing yoga and how she hopes I don't get "too much into it", especially with the meditating. ) I think you do have a point that some people might be more fearful of negative consequences occurring than they need to be but it could also depend on the person (maybe they don't have a thick skin) and the community (small town versus big city).

I'll trade another quote with you! "Fear exists for one purpose: To be conquered." I don't know if I completely agree but Mr. Sun and I love to interject quotes in our conversations to see if the other one recognizes it and names the show/movie that it is from.

I think a lot of this would depend on what your role in said society was.

 

School teacher of young children who gets outed in the community as a swinger, you are going to have a bad time.

Artist who gets outed as a swinger, you won't even get a second thought.

People might actual expect something like that to come from an artist and say, "Well, of course he's a swinger!"

I think society does help to create a fear of not conforming to the status quo. My wife and I are relatively open with a good deal of our friends. My wife's one sister has a pretty good idea of how we spend our nights free from the kids, but I know that in a professional setting it isn't as easily accepted. She was working as a receptionist at a popular business in a small community where even showing cleavage was frowned upon by the owners. We were at a company BBQ when the subject of swinging - actual people in particular that had been thought to be swingers, had come up and the people who they were talking about were not being mentioned in a particularly respectful way because of their lifestyle choice. It was pretty obvious at that point that if it were known about us those same peoples opinions of my wife would be altered for the worse, which would likely end her chances of promotion within the company she otherwise loved. As for my work situation, while I can't see having any professional backlash over my admission, if the guys I worked with were to find out that I enjoy a good MFM with my wife, it could contribute to my being treated as some sort of social leper, and while some may say 'who cares what others think', the fact of the matter is when you have to work with people day-in, day-out and getting along with these people makes the day and job that much easier, why would you risk revealing it for the sake of bragging rights and a few minutes of interesting conversation. However, in a perfect world, wouldn't it be nice! I'll be honest, my wife's situation is probably the worse one than mine, but still...

I agree with several of the previous posts. Society is a big word, it encompasses a lot. It can mean all the other millions that share the same citizenship as you do, or it can be the three coworkers you go to lunch with every day. It's easy to not care what the faceless millions might think, because for the most part they have absolutely zero effect on you personally. The three on the other hand, though they make up an infinitesimal fraction of the whole, they can have a lot of effect on your life, good or bad.

I think a person's opinion on this subject is always dependent on those little circles of the personal societies that taken together are your life, and really serve as a coat of chain mail armor protecting you. For some, the circles aren't interconnected much, for others, very tightly connected. For some, losing one circle won't cause the whole chain to come apart and the armor go away leaving you totally vulnerable, for others it would.

Where each person fits into this is almost fate I think. Some things you can control and guide, others you can't so much, they are just a by-product of things you do control. Everyone recognizes that to some degree, you must function well within your given societies, and some more than others. If you don't, you are sure to bring problems on yourself, and since humans are all about self-preservation, the drive to do so is always there to some level.