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I'm just trying to sort out my feelings and maybe writing them down, and having the good folks on the forums offer their $.02, will help.

 

So, I've got a crush on my friend-with-benefits. I probably should have seen it coming. In fact, I think I did. She's exactly the type of lady I've always crushed on. Smart, strong but with a hint of softness, geeky, long dark hair, great eyes... Yeah, I was doomed from the start. When we first met, I joked about it: "If I was ten years younger, she would have been exactly my type." First she was just a casual acquaintance and sometime babysitter (yes, I'm banging the babysitter, get over it, she's in her 20's). Then we were friends. Now, we're friends with benefits. It's a casual thing... friends and occasional sex... really great sex.

 

OK, I knew I had a bit of a crush on her right from the start. I'm an idiot but I'm not a total idiot. I said as much. I said it to myself, to my wife, to her wife, to her... we all know it.

 

The other day I looked at her picture online. I went looking because I hadn't seen her in a week. (A damn week? Really, I should have known better.) It hit me... that feeling, that swooping, heart skipping a beat, light headed, what-the-hell-I-shouldn't-be-feeling-this feeling. Oh crap.

 

So I said it to her. Those three damn words. She knows. She cares about me too. But she doesn't feel "the way I want her to." (Her words.)

 

The thing is, fucked as I know just how I want her to feel. I don't even know what these feelings mean to me. What we have is good. Friendship and occasional really great sex. I don't really want more than that... except maybe more often (twice a month instead of once) and she and I both want that. I don't want to run away with her. We both have good relationships with our spouses and other partners. I don't want to mess any of that up. I like what we have. In fact, liking what we have is what got me into this emotional confusion in the first place.

 

Maybe it's just a question of definitions. What is love beyond friendship and sex? What does it mean that I have this crazy-making neuro-chemical reaction just to seeing her? Aren't I too old for this shit?

 

Nope, still haven't sorted it out. I'll just have to keep trying. (If you've made it this far, thanks for reading. Welcome to my crazy. :) )

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Do a search for NRE (new relationship energy) and while you're doing that also search for 'midlife crisis'. Hey, you've been here long enough to know this already haven't you? This is fairly common and will die down after awhile. The real question (that I think you are trying to ask) is: What's more important to me, my wife or a younger woman who doesn't have feelings for me as strongly as I have for her? Don't do anything rash or hasty here.

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The NRE thing is for sure at play here, and with time as the relationship matures, some of the aspects that come with that will likely fade.

 

"Love" comes in many different forms and can mean many different things to different people, and putting any of it into words for someone else to truly understand where you are coming from is a very difficult thing to do. As it applies to your relationship with each other, you each may be defining it differently, or maybe not. Getting that figured out, which is not going be easy, does need to be done to keep the relationship with everyone involved a healthy one though. Although not likely to be pain-free, exploring that aspect in conversation would be a worthwhile thing to do I think. Doing so may help speed through the NRE more quickly than would happen if things were just left to sort out piece by piece on their own. You'll get to the same place using either approach, one will just be much quicker than the other.

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Sounds to me like you DO have it sorted out. Some people wouldn't know what they're feeling in this situation. You do. Your wife knows, your play partner knows, you know, everything's on the up and up. So long as everything is stable, I'm not sure where the harm is in this...?

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Sounds to me like you DO have it sorted out. Some people wouldn't know what they're feeling in this situation. You do. Your wife knows, your play partner knows, you know, everything's on the up and up. So long as everything is stable, I'm not sure where the harm is in this...?

 

Huh... well, you're not wrong. I guess I was just getting caught up in the sudden intensity of it all.

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...I was just getting caught up in the sudden intensity of it all.

 

Be gentle and generous to all concerned, especially your wife, and enjoy riding the wave regardless how it turns out. As a poly person, I admire you and those involved in this situation for all being cool. Why is it so many swingers can not only allow but enjoy having their spouse get sexual satisfaction from other people, but recoil at the thought of there being any emotional attachment? As if another person not just fucking, but actually caring about the one you love is a bad thing. My husband feels comforted that my boyfriend treats me well and would take care of me if anything happened to him, and I about him and our girlfriend. If there is no jealousy, no dishonestly, then work it for everyone's best. I truly hope you get the opportunity to see your new love twice a month, at least, and that her husband and your wife are there to celebrate in mutual joy.

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We can so relate to this.. In the swinger community that we travel in we are attracted to few that we really like to play with. There are two men that my wife really loves and one passed recently much to everyone surprise. He was way to young to go.. it broke her heart to loose him. I have had a couple of women that have rocked my world.. one.. and she was the total package. She was a fitness nut. Had a great job.. is smart, well read and traveled. I really hit it off with her. We must have been married in another life. She could end my sentences and I hers.. we are a match. We care about eachother.. and feel strongly about one another.. and that is as good as it gets for us.

 

My wife gives me space with her as I give space to her.. It was a good day when I could finally let go of having to be everything for my wife and her being everything to me. That let the pressure off so we would not have to pretend not to like our swinging friends. Or even love them. If my wife decides she does not want me and went to another man I would let her. As she would do that for me.. I want a partner not a hostage. I chose and made a promise to be with her and I feel that way about my wife.

 

I did not hear you talk much about your wife in this. How does she feel about your relationship with her? Does she have a fwb?

 

For us the infatuation will pass.. it always does. No one can fit next to me in life like mine does. Those tender moments are what I live for. I live to make my wife happy..

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I did not hear you talk much about your wife in this. How does she feel about your relationship with her? Does she have a fwb?

 

My wife very supportive. When my friend and I started talking about being FWB, I asked my wife if she was OK with it. She rolled her eyes and said "Of course." When we started actually seeing each other I asked my wife again. She rolled her eyes and said "Yes! Stop worrying about it." :) I keep talking to her about it.

 

The one and only time when my wife's response has been anything other than amused was when our local swingers club shut down. I invited my FWB over to not-watch a movie on a night when my wife would be out. I asked my wife how she felt about us using the bed. At first she was puzzled by the question, but after a moment the significance of me having sex with another woman in a bed we share struck home. She said "let me sleep on it." The next morning, shortly after waking up, she looked at me, smiled and said "It would be fine." My wife is remarkable.

 

To answer your other question, no, my wife does not have a FWB of her own. Nor has she expressed any interest in one. She's happy that I have friends I hang out with who aren't her (something I hadn't been able to do for several years after we moved... I don't make friends easily). It means she can spend time with her friends without feeling guilty about leaving me alone at home, because I have time that I spend out with my friends. The fact that I happen to spend some of that time having sex with one of those friends really isn't all that significant to her.

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We can so relate to this..

 

My wife gives me space with her as I give space to her.. It was a good day when I could finally let go of having to be everything for my wife and her being everything to me. That let the pressure off so we would not have to pretend not to like our swinging friends. Or even love them. If my wife decides she does not want me and went to another man I would let her. As she would do that for me.. I want a partner not a hostage. I chose and made a promise to be with her and I feel that way about my wife.

 

....

 

For us the infatuation will pass.. it always does. No one can fit next to me in life like mine does. Those tender moments are what I live for. I live to make my wife happy..

 

Thank you for this post. I live in a poly family, and this spoke to me.

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I did not hear you talk much about your wife in this. How does she feel about your relationship with her? Does she have a fwb?

 

 

My wife very supportive. When my friend and I started talking about being FWB, I asked my wife if she was OK with it. She rolled her eyes and said "Of course." When we started actually seeing each other I asked my wife again. She rolled her eyes and said "Yes! Stop worrying about it." :) I keep talking to her about it.

 

...I asked my wife how she felt about us using the bed. At first she was puzzled by the question, but after a moment the significance of me having sex with another woman in a bed we share struck home. She said "let me sleep on it." The next morning, shortly after waking up, she looked at me, smiled and said "It would be fine." My wife is remarkable.

 

To answer your other question, no, my wife does not have a FWB of her own. Nor has she expressed any interest in one.

 

Your amazing wife sounds exactly like my husband! It was the most refreshing thing in my life when I was first dating my not-yet husband David and he asked whether I was still seeing my ex-fiance. I honestly answered "Yes" and David told me that seeing my ex, having sex with him, even loving him was fine. It was not until years later that I was able to give him the same freedoms, but I have gotten there.

 

Thank you for sharing your story.

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You know, it's been a while since this thread was active... I really thought I had a handle on my feelings. Things have been going OK. I've been able to see my friend fairly regularly. It's been fun and I've managed to not make a complete ass out of myself. :)

 

Yesterday, my friend drops by semi-out-of-the-blue. Her wife had dropped her wallet here that last time they were over for gaming and I said come over anytime to get it. To be fair, they had messaged me they were coming to pick it up, but I didn't get the message. So, I'm sitting alone, watching Netflix, expecting a quiet afternoon when there is knock on the door and there she is.

 

The air goes out of the room and she's the only thing I can see.

 

I managed to give her the lost wallet. I think I managed to use words in a semi-coherent manner. I don't really remember. :headdesk:

 

I told my wife later. She said "awwww."

 

Oh yeah, I'm so doomed.

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I feel like a total selfish jerk...

 

Apart from the brief time last weekend mentioned above, I haven't seen or heard from my Friend for two weeks. For good reason, her wife had a death in the family and she's been dealing with that. My head understands. My heart doesn't give a fuck. I want to see her, talk to her and I'm upset that I can't.

 

I knew going in that she had lots of obligations and I was a secondary, at best. I guess I just got used to the fact that for the past few months we'd managed to get together every other week. I'm trying not get all doom-and-gloom over it. I know I have a lot of stress in my life and that makes everything harder to deal with.

 

I just wish I could see her. :(

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The heart is a funny thing. I don't envy your situation because it can be so visceral that it hurts. Hope you can see your friend soon.

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The heart is a funny thing. I don't envy your situation because it can be so visceral that it hurts. Hope you can see your friend soon.

 

Not bloody likely unfortunately...

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They ended up falling in love with each other. Their experiences together were always awesome and sexy to watch. They were totally comfortable being that way in front of me. It made me feel uncomfortable watching them kiss so passionately.

 

He wanted to posses her for his own but she chose me and our marriage (home and assets?) over him.

 

It was a wild ride.

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Nor should you be! You clearly have poly/love feelings for her and yet silence? Texts are so easy, and yet not a word?

 

I am sorry, my friend. I find this silence oddly out of place.

 

I certainly understand loss and tragedy and being caught up in life. However, a short text would put you at ease.

 

You've always been a straight shooter and so I will here, too. Weeks without a word? Trouble in paradise.

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Of course, part of me is thinking: "Fuck it, clearly she's broken up with me and neglected to tell me about it. To hell with her."

 

Another part is thinking: "I like being with her so much, I'll take her any way I can get her."

 

Meanwhile, the sane voice lurking in the back of my head is pointing out: "This has very little to do with her. I'm massively stressed out and panicked about my own troubles, and rather than dealing with them I'm obsessing about her. It's probably better that she isn't in touch while I'm having a general meltdown."

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Have you tried texting her? Asking how she is doing and if there is anything you can do to help?

 

Yeah. Well, I messaged her on FB which is the way we communicate... about once or twice a day for the past two weeks. I reached the point where I decided I should stop because I've messaged her "too much" ... that lasted about a day.

 

The annoying thing is, it is perfectly possible that she just hasn't checked her messages. She's been known to do that. Getting any kind of two way communication going usually requires either luck (us both being online at the same time) or advanced planning (which requires the luck of us both being online at the same time long enough to make a plan). With everything else going on in her life, she hasn't been online much and the times she has appear to be the times I haven't. It honestly wouldn't surprise me to get a response for her starting with "oh crap, I didn't see your messages." It's happened before.

 

To a degree, it's my own stresses which have escalated this in my mind and my own pessimism turning it into a "she's ignoring me, she hates me" crisis.

 

Unless it isn't... arrrggghhh. :bangdesk:

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I hope this didn't come off as mean. That isn't my intention. I like you, you seem like a cool guy, but you're obviously feeling more in this relationship, and I hate to see you get hurt.

 

You're not saying anything I haven't said to myself over the past few days (apart from the "cool guy" bit, thanks for that). Honestly, you're probably right.

 

Of course, it doesn't actually help but what else can you do. :/

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Well, I embraced my idiocy, apologized for bugging her and I'm done. Either she talks to me or she doesn't. Fuck it. It's not like anything else in my life is going right either.

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Just so I am clear here, you have an fwb that you told you had feelings for, she didn't reciprocate. Then she went dark on you.

 

You messaged her once or twice a day for two weeks with no response.

 

Then you messaged an apology for bugging her.

 

I am sorry you are broken hearted, but I don't think you are ever going to see her again.

 

I mean reverse this and see how it fits. Wouldn't you go dark?

 

Time to spend some time on something else entirely to clear you mind.

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Give them space and time but there's nothing else you can do that won't make things worse.

 

Move along, nothing to see here...

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Just so I am clear here, you have an fwb that you told you had feelings for, she didn't reciprocate. Then she went dark on you.

 

No.

 

I have a friend with benefits. Ten months ago, I told her I had feelings for her. She didn't reciprocate. We continued seeing each other. In fact we started seeing more of each other than we had been, to the point where we chatted online briefly almost every day, chatted for hours at least once a week and got together in person every other week.

 

A month ago her wife had a death in the family. We chatted briefly after that, but then she went dark... then I messaged her a lot and finally apologized for bugging her.

 

In short, welcome to my Ignore list.

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Give them space and time but there's nothing else you can do that won't make things worse.

 

Move along, nothing to see here...

 

Yeah, I've finally reach the point where I can accept that. I just hope I didn't fuck things up too badly before I got here. Ah well, only time will tell.

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I find it strange that she'd just give you radio silence considering you had been seeing so much of her . :( things must be very crazy with her wife's family. Since things seemed to be going so well beforehand, just give it time.

 

It could be she realized you were falling more for her every day and she just doesn't want to hurt you. Now, just stopping all communication hurts you too, but even the most mature people in their 20's aren't always rational. Heck, 60 year olds aren't always rational.

 

Here's hoping she communicates soon, if only to give you an answer one way or another.

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I find it strange that she'd just give you radio silence considering you had been seeing so much of her . :( things must be very crazy with her wife's family. Since things seemed to be going so well beforehand, just give it time.

 

Thank you. You have now articulated my thoughts much better than I have been. To be fair to myself, I've been having a really amazingly bad couple of weeks too.

 

Here's hoping she communicates soon, if only to give you an answer one way or another.

 

Yeah, that's about where I'm at too.

 

Thanks.

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Followup, short form... I heard from her. We talked. I apologized for bombarding her with messages. She apologized for not warning me she would probably have to go radio silent. We're still both dealing with stuff in our own separate lives but we're still friends. Once things settle down, we both hope to get back to where we were.

 

Thanks everyone for providing me a place to vent. I'm sure I'll be horribly embarrassed about it later on. :)

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Well, time for another venting of the feelings. This is mostly me working things out by writing them down. Not so much looking for advice as just trying to lay my thoughts out straight.

 

I talked with my friend-with-benefits a couple of weeks ago, about my feelings and pinning her down on hers. It was a good talk but we arrived at where we've been - that she is interested in and has time for is "friends with benefits." I said I was ok with that, because really I am. I'm not looking for a romantic relationship with her, my stressed out/hormonal reactions notwithstanding.

 

Unfortunately, I've been thinking since. Back when we started our relationship, I told her that I didn't think the "benefits" were going to cause problems, the "friends" part would. As a fairly introverted person, I have a very different definition of "friends" than a lot of folks I know. Most people I know, I consider casual acquaintances. To me, a Friend is someone you can really count on, someone you can turn to in a crisis, celebrate with when thinks go well or just sit quietly with. Unfortunately, my friend-with-benefits has said she can't be that for me. Which means, we aren't Friends, not the way I think of friends. Which... is disappointing and presents an emotional puzzle. Do I accept that we're casual acquaintances who occasionally have great sex - fuck buddies, I guess is the term - or do I give that up and stop seeing her altogether. I'll be honest - I like socializing with her, I like gaming with her and I really, really like having sex with her. I don't want to give those things up if I don't have to. I feel like I need to break up with her - in my own head and heart - so that we can have the relationship we already, actually have without me wanting to bring all this extra stuff into it. Which is too bad, because I would really like to have a friend of the kind I mean when I talk about a friend... but she can't be that. So, I need to respect that and accept it.

 

... and that's my answer. She can't be the kind of friend I want to have. If I want to be able to have any kind of relationship with her, I need to respect that and move on. I guess I that's what I'll have to do.

 

In the end, it's all a language problem. I need some new words, or to change my definitions of the one's I've got.

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Several years ago I started dating a woman. By dating, I mean that we would go out for dinner, or I would make her dinner or she would make dinner for me and then we would have sex. We would go for a drive to different places and have a good time spending the day together and then we would have sex. I would come over to her place and fix things that needed attention and then we would have sex. One day, as we were going to go for a drive down to the beach, she suddenly said that our dating wasn't what she wanted. She wanted us to go on 'real dates'. I asked what that was and she couldn't explain what she was looking for. I thought we WERE dating and told her that. In the end, we broke up. A week later she called me back and said that she missed what we had but understood that I couldn't give her what she was looking for (that thing that she didn't know what it was as well...she didn't have the words to describe) but wanted to try having a 'friends with benefits' relationship since she really enjoyed us spending time together...and the sex. While I would have loved to continue, it was obvious that the relationship would never work out so I thanked her and walked away. I really cared for her, but sometimes things just don't work out and the best thing to do is for everyone involved to walk away. I think you are doing the right thing. Neither of you can give what the other needs or wants...walk away.

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Ok, so I didn't actually break up with her (well, I did but I didn't). But I am cooling things off. I am not going to message her, or initiate contact at all. I actually tried it as an experiment... I didn't message her for a week and I felt better about things. I saw her over the weekend, and we talked. We agreed that we need to cool things off, but we both still want to be friends and occasional play partners. I'm not going to initiate contact with her. If she wants to get together, she'll call me. That way, I'm not waiting around for her to reply to my messages. We'll see how it goes.

 

I'm sure some of you will think I'm an idiot, but I'm pretty sure I admitted that up front. :) The simple fact is, I know how my brain works. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing deal for me. If it did, I don't think I'd be swinging in the first place.

 

Thanks all for your good thoughts and helpful comments.

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So, this relationship ended a while back to no one's great surprise, I'm sure. Amicable breakup, no hard feelings. Still, the back of my mind has been pondering things and I feel like I want to share some of the conclusions I've come to. Forgive me if I've said any or all of this already...

 

We started out casual, fun, friends-with-benefits. That's what we both wanted and it was good. Then my life kinda went straight to shit. Lost my job, lost my house kind of straight to shit... and here was this one pretty, young woman who made me happy and liked that she could make me smile. I liked that and I needed it... too damn much, as it turned out. Because my life continued to go to shit and, at one of the serious low points, she wasn't there. Not her fault, her wife had a crisis and she needed to be there for her... but between the need and the absence, I went nutso... as can be seen clearly in any of the many threads I dedicated to this, embarrassingly preserved to remind me of my own descent into idiocy. :) In the end, while I wouldn't admit it or even seem to recognize it, I wanted more than she had agreed to give... more even than I wanted to want (if that makes any sense). So, it ended. Neither of us explicated said this was why, but in hindsight, I think it was.

 

I like understanding these things. They help me get a handle on my and hopefully improve my future. Thanks everyone for listening and if any of this is beneficial to others I'm truly glad.

 

PS - My life is still shit, but I have a wonderful wife and a deep capacity for hope. Like a great, albeit imaginary, man once said: Never tell me the odds. :)

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The thing about shit is after awhile, you just don't notice the smell anymore. We continue to hope that things do get better for you.

 

This reminded me about a quote from the movie Dumb and Dumber: "So you're telling me there's a chance"

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The good thing about getting hurt after what felt like a strong connection with a younger woman, is that if it happens again, your brain will tell you..."oh yes I recognize this emotion, and it did not end well"...most likely you'll either pass on it, or, if you go for it, hopefully you'll be able to enjoy the perks while waiting for the inevitable end. I remember when it happened to me (ok, I admit it took more than once for me to learn...lol..), she was telling me in tears that she knew it was hurting me, that she cared about me, but that she had to end it. The emotions were raging inside of me, just like the previous times, but instead of trying to find a way to make her stay, I said calmly..." do you need money for the cab?". It's called growing up. Good luck.

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So, this relationship ended a while back to no one's great surprise, I'm sure. Amicable breakup, no hard feelings... My life is still shit, but I have a wonderful wife and a deep capacity for hope. Like a great, albeit imaginary, man once said: Never tell me the odds. :)

 

Yo DO have a wonderful wife, much more than 99.9% of men could even hope for. And you had a relationship that grabbed your soul, made you understand yourself better. That is life, and what great art springs from. Good luck and thanks for sharing.

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My husband and I are ok with the crushy type feelings. We just don’t want to cross over into full blown let’s all live togther or leave people for people love. We have our family and kids. We are secure and happy. Our preference is a couple and it’s what we had for few years. We all had crush and genuine caring feelings but not full true love. We welcome the crushy feelings. It’s so fun!

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    • By JW6145
      I’ve been lurking a while and read a ton here the boards. Now I’ve gotten myself into a situation that is not talked about very much on here. I’ve fallen in love with a playmate. I really didn’t mean for it to happen, and from what she tells me she didn’t mean for it to happen either. Let me start by saying I’ve been completely open and 100% honest with my wife, and my playmate Becca tells me that she has been mostly open with her husband. We’ll get to that in a bit.
       
      Becca and I met at a club, just a few months ago. From the first I thought she was attractive, I mean let’s face it, we’re here to fuck attractive people, right? My wife, Angie, and I went to the club that night to have some fun. We’re experienced swingers-we don’t play alot, swinging does not rule our lives- but we’ve had our share of fun. The night I met Becca was no different; we hoped to meet some fun people, have some good to great sex, and maybe make some friends we could hang out with on a regular basis.
       
      Becca and I both realized pretty quickly that there is a strong physical attraction between the two of us. The sex is effortless and I’ve never fit together with anyone better. After that first night of being together, my wife Angie and Becca’s husband Rob exchanged numbers. Becca asked for my number but I declined, telling her she could just text Angie if she wanted. I don’t normally like to have communication with the women I play with outside of swinging situations. I was not able to get Becca out of my head for the next several days- which is unusual for me. I threw caution to the wind sent her my number via SLS. She texted me a few hours later. Over the next several days we exchanged texts and even spoke on the phone a few times. All with Angie’s knowledge.
       
      We all four got together again a few weeks later-and it was even better than the first time. It was that night that I recognized that I had developed emotional feelings for Becca, and I was pretty sure that she had developed similar feelings for me.
       
      A few days after we were all together the second time I told my wife about my feelings for Becca. I told her I didn’t know if I was getting our sexual chemistry mixed up with emotion but I thought that could be the case. To my surprise Angie did not freak out. She told me she suspected something was up-given the amount of communication between Becca and I. I took a few weeks to sort out my feelings and spent many more hours talking to both Angie and Becca. I realized that I was probably in love with Becca. And I told them both so. Becca told me she feels the same way. This is not the “oh, I’ve just fucked someone new, I hope they like me best” kind of feeling. We’ve both been with other people since we met and it has not cooled our emotions. This is raw, real and deep.
       
      When I told Angie all of this she gave me license to pursue a relationship with Becca and follow it wherever it may lead. I did not ask for this, Angie offered it to me. Angie is secure about our commitment to each other-I am not leaving my wife and Becca and Angie both know that. Becca also has no intention of leaving her husband.
       
      Becca has talked with her husband Rob about us and the feelings we’ve developed for each other. What she has not told him is that she thinks loves me, she does not know how he would react to that (here is the mostly open part that I alluded to in the first paragraph). She has told him our feelings are deep but has not gone into how much we care for each other. Rob is completely comfortable with texts and calls throughout the day, but not with Becca and I meeting without him and Angie there-even for lunch or dinner. I completely understand and respect this. I don’t like it, but I respect it. I suspect if the shoe were on the other foot I would feel the same way. I really genuinely like Rob by the way, he treats both Becca and Angie really well-and he and Angie have really great sex together. Angie has told Rob that it’s just sex between the two of them and Rob feels the same way. They have no other feelings for each other past that.
       
      Becca and I text every day and talk several times a week; I know about her life and children, and she knows about mine. We have similar interests and lives outside of swinging, we are in similar businesses. We have become emotional rocks for each other. I get emotional needs met from her that I do not get from Angie. Again, I have been upfront with Angie about all this and she is fine with it.
       
      So here are my big questions: Do these things really ever work, or are we on the express train to Dramaville?
       
      Is it possible to keep something like this going long term?
       
      How do we navigate the fact that Rob is not comfortable with Becca and I meeting without him around (again, we will not be going against his wishes on this one) and knowing that he and Angie will want to have more variety in their swinging soon, which will leave less opportunity for Becca and I to be together?
       
      Any thoughts from the wise sages on here are welcome. I’m a big boy-if I’ve being naïve about anything please tell me. I can take it.
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