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Need advice...here's the situation:

 

Solid marriage, couple of decades, middle-aged, absolute trust, great communication, swinging for several years, full swap...not belt-notchers but experienced...

 

A few yrs ago wife had a couple of solo play times with guy acquaintances. I said if I ever had the chance I would like to do that. Not jealous of guys, just jealous of the experience. Most of our play has been couple with couple, same room and separate room.

 

Fast forward to the last 6 months...I have been with a single female 6 times solo. It was great. Wife said to go for it.

 

NOW....wife meets dude at club...dude's wife and I do not click...there is a suggestion that my wife has 4 some with dude while his wife is with a different guy that she has been solo with a few times. (I stipulated that wife play only with dude while dude's wife plays with other guy. No interaction between my wife and other guy although the 2 females played some). Wife says, "hey, it's my turn, suck it up". I say ok.

 

Wife comes home from play. I say glad ya had a good time but are we done now? Wife: nope wanna do it again. I say: no foursomes, this is a couple gig. And besides I'm not handling it as well as I thought I would. Wife: suck it up, I like the guy and want to do it again. BTW, readers, fellow sends chatty emails every week. This bugs me.

 

Ok, sorry to go on...I acquiesce to a 3-some with me and dude to make wife happy and to try and "level" the tables but no more 4-somes with somebody else and I'm not there.

 

What do I do? I am uncomfortable now with solo play. I don't deal with it as well as I thought I could. Am I being selfish? She isn't going to run off with other fellow, it's just that I don't want to share unless we're playing as a couple. I changed my mind. I don't want some other fellow sending emails and trying to be my wife's "buddy".

 

She say's I'm controlling. Resents that. Say's I had my fun and now it's her turn, sorry how you feel. I ask when will it end, when you have 3 more times alone? She say's not sure, maybe more...AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...

 

Am I screwed up? I want to be fair but...?

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hum not selfish just have boundries . one comment on the communication thing! got to do some more of it soon! if this bothers you tell her again and again!

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Alright I will give this a go. Your wife plays solo with a married man who's wife also plays solo. The 4 of them play together, you don't like the guy and think that should be the end of playing solo.

 

If this is correct then all solo play should stop until your boundaries are reassessed. You have made your concerns known, swinging is no place to bring in the what's good for the goose is good for the gander theory. Sometimes you don't know how you are going to handle a situation until it has already taken place and is now unchangeable. At that point all you can do is pick apart the situation and figure where it went wrong and learn from the experience.

 

If she feels entitled to continue to partake in group activities with this guy(and without you) then you have a problem on your hands. Blatently acting against one another's wishes is a road to disaster and your trust will be on the line. Swinging isn't intended to hurt anyone and it appears that she might be willing to risk too much in this case.

 

Annette

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You do the crime you do the time, you play you pay, none of the cliche's fit. Is it unfair for you to feel this way? Yes, somewhat, given the mitigating circumstance of your own dalliance. Now that she has played as well, you should discuss that you are both even, its not about keeping score.

 

If your relationship is solid neither one of you should want to do anything that will hurt or distress the other.

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I don't think its as much about your wife playing solo as it is that you and the other guy's wife don't get along. when you said...

 

NOW....wife meets dude at club...dude's wife and I do not click...there is a suggestion that my wife has 4 some with dude while his wife is with a different guy that she has been solo with a few times. (I stipulated that wife play only with dude while dude's wife plays with other guy. No interaction between my wife and other guy although the 2 females played some). Wife says, "hey, it's my turn, suck it up". I say ok.

 

Wife comes home from play. I say glad ya had a good time but are we done now? Wife: nope wanna do it again. I say: no foursomes, this is a couple gig. And besides I'm not handling it as well as I thought I would. Wife: suck it up, I like the guy and want to do it again. BTW, readers, fellow sends chatty emails every week. This bugs me.

 

...it sounds more like the typical one-spouse-has-friend(s)-other-spouse-can't stand. Having a friendship with someone your S/O doesn't like makes life easier in normal relationships. Swinging just makes everything more difficult.

 

What do I do? I am uncomfortable now with solo play. I don't deal with it as well as I thought I could. Am I being selfish? She isn't going to run off with other fellow, it's just that I don't want to share unless we're playing as a couple. I changed my mind. I don't want some other fellow sending emails and trying to be my wife's "buddy".

She say's I'm controlling. Resents that. Say's I had my fun and now it's her turn, sorry how you feel. I ask when will it end, when you have 3 more times alone? She say's not sure, maybe more...AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...

 

I know many couples who do not swing who have divorced because one or both had friends who got in the way of the marriage. Maybe because I am single and has been the 'outsider', I may be seeing things from a different angle. But it sounds less like a swinging issue than a marriage-vs-friendship issue. Try to make her see it in those terms and it may make it easier to convince her to cool it with this other couple and their friend. Maybe if it were someone else, someone you actually got along with you would not feel jealous.

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I don't know- doesn't sound too good to me. When something bothers me, my wife stops doing it- RIGHT AWAY. I do the same. Maybe time for a marriage counselor.

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"I am uncomfortable now with solo play. I don't deal with it as well as I thought I could." ---two loves

 

Mr. Twoloves, I think you are very clear about what is bothering you in this situation. I give you a lot of credit for telling the painful truth. Did your wife say she was as uncomfortable w/you when you had your 'solo' time to swing? If it was not a good experience for her to be the one waiting at home, is her point payback? The reason I bring that up is that it SOUNDS like she made the assumption that it's 'too bad if you don't like this, it's my turn to hurt your feelings..' If she did feel unhappy with the agreement for you to swing solo...did she let you know, or are you getting clobbered after the fact?

 

One of the important points is the rules you make for yourselves as a couple: if one person feels unhappy with the situation, then perhaps all activity should stop until you have this ironed out to the satisfaction of you BOTH.

 

I think you should take some time to sort this out before you feel more hurt and anger kicks in...the other red flag is the fact that her swing partner dude is mailing little letters to her in-between times: you may be feeling like the emotional closeness is being threatened by this dude.

 

A marriage is a treasure. When someone feels getting a 'fair share' is more important than reinforcing the togetherness...something's not right.

 

I wish you luck and I hope you can both learn something from this. Have no idea what you will learn, but perhaps that's the way life is sometimes. We try stuff. Sometimes it turns out well, and sometimes not.

If you can think of a compromise, like being present while she's w/ the dude (same room swap) perhaps it will smooth things over. However, you are right to be as honest and up-front with her about your feelings as you are. That's a great start.

 

Good for you--- being open about communicating what is bothering you.

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I definitely did not like the tone of the email messages that the "dude" was sending to his wife. It has too much of an emotional quality. For us polyamory is not what we are looking for- we have our emotional fulfillment with each other. Sex is something different all together.

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Originally posted by Nymph an' Satyr

I definitely did not like the tone of the email messages that the "dude" was sending to his wife. It has too much of an emotional quality. For us polyamory is not what we are looking for- we have our emotional fulfillment with each other. Sex is something different all together.

 

I think this is absolutely correct: if the husband/dude is communicating w/ the wife in a way that makes Mr. Twoloves uncomfortable, it should stop. What could he have to say that couldn't be said to Mr. Twoloves?

--As a single woman, when I deal w/a couple, it is of utmost importance to behave in a way that demonstrates total respect for the wife. I believe it defuses any hint of competitiveness or -whatever- that might be construed as 'emotionally threatening' to the wife.

 

Great insight, Nymph n' Satyr.

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Your wife loves you I assume, and also you love her. So if this is true she should stop IMMEDIATLY and you two should set new boundries and talk about it. swinging can be VERY difficult. The thought of my wife cheating on me gets me very mad. But the thought of my wife with someone else of my approval turns me on. Its esencially the same thing just with two different feelings.

J

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Question: IS it the idea of her playing ALONE (ie without you) that bothers you? Or is it the idea of her playing with this guy? Or of her playing with another couple without you involved.

 

My thoughts on playing alone in general (and it worked for us).

 

If you come as a couple then we come as a couple. If one of us (or you) isn't interested, then neither of us play.

 

If we play alone then it's with singles only.

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Thanks one and all for your great and thoughtful responses. Your advice is very much appreciated from Ms 2luvs and myself.

 

After much discussion we have decided to continue with solo swinging. Although we have tabled the idea of her in a foursome without me being there. Solo or separate (whatever the term is) swinging can be a great experience. One thing my wife say's is that we're making much adoo about nothing; when we're in our 80' with the drools we'll wonder what all the fuss was about and wish we had done more! :lol:

 

Ok, to answer a few questions:

 

 

Not a question but a great statement, funpairTX. That is where we are. Don't want to throw the barrel out with the bathwater, but want to make each other happy.

 

<...it sounds more like the typical one-spouse-has-friend stand. having a friendship with someone your s doesn makes life easier in normal relationships. swinging just everything difficult.>

 

Good point, eternally single, and close to the mark.

 

 

Thanks NightGoddess. She was just a little uncomfortable but not much figuring her turn would come eventually. No payback type issue.

 

 

Excellent point Nymph an Satyr. No poly for me. Hard enough dealing with one other person much less a number of other people. And, yes, it did bother me.

 

 

My thoughts on playing alone in general (and it worked for us).

 

If you come as a couple then we come as a couple. If one of us (or you) isn't interested, then neither of us play.

 

If we play alone then it's with singles only.>

 

Julie, playing alone bothers me more than it botherd her when I played alone. The idea of playing with this guy didn't bother me as much as his little "chatty" emails. (We share everything including emails). And, her playing with this other couple really bothered me because I don't want to feel like my wife is a slut that is screwing all over town. I know, I know, don't blast me...women aren't sluts because they sleep around...it's just this feeling I get. Hell, I can't explain it. Also, Julie, your rules are good; I just want to keep an open mind although the road is a little rockier.

 

Having said all that, and now you're going to shoot me...my single friend called and wants to get together again ...wife says go for it but just remember when it's my turn...dang, I'd like to be with this gal again...can I have my cake and eat it too?....now, it's back to let's make a deal time!

 

Part of the whole issue is that my beautiful wife is more of a stoic, (english/welsh background) and I am more passionate (read latin male).

 

I have a question for you all:

 

For those that have been swinging separate in the past or still are, how's it going? Any rules that you adhere to? Why did you stop? Is it working?

 

Thanks again for your great replies. They were great. Thanks for this wonderful forum.

 

2luvs

 

 

 

 

:lol: :lol: :fun::lol:

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Originally posted by twoloves

Having said all that, and now you're going to shoot me...my single friend called and wants to get together again ...wife says go for it but just remember when it's my turn...dang, I'd like to be with this gal again...can I have my cake and eat it too?....now, it's back to let's make a deal time!

 

 

JEEZ.................Shootin is too good for ya Bubba. THINK WITH THE HEAD THAT IS ON TOP OF YOUR SHOULDERS.

 

Thats how this whole thing started man. You need to make up your mind. You can't have your cake and eat it too, it doesn't happen that way. It is like when my dad asked me, "what do you want to be when you grow up?" "A musician" I replied, He looked at me dead serious and said "one way or the other you can do both" That is our advice here.

 

Looking back to your post, the email would bother me a LOT more than the sex.

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Looking back to your post, the email would bother me a LOT more than the sex.

 

Aye, agreed.

 

We don't swing seperately. For us it's strictly a couples thing.

 

I had a similar experiance as twoloves did, in that I permitted my wife to have a solo fling with a guy she was hot for. (For the record I have never had a solo fling.) I found it distressing.

It was not the sex, but there was an emotional component that made me feel, well, jealous. We'll avoid the solo flying for now :)

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UPDATE:

 

This continues to be an ongoing problem. The irresistible force meets the immoveable object. Any advice?

 

Since July, when I last wrote, wife and I continued our solo play until late September when I stopped seeing my friend. I stopped seeing my friend because the enjoyment I got from that friendship was not worth the pain I experienced when my wife went off for foursomes with her friend (s).

 

I asked her to stop and get back to doing just couple activity. She said no, that she really enjoyed the friendship and sex. We argued a lot. Harsh words. Hard feelings. I acquiesced to two more of her foursomes. Once in October and once in December. I did this because I thought I owed her (number of times).

 

In November and December we talked with a therapist and we both saw an attorney to get background info on a possible divorce. The therapy was inconclusive and very expensive. We stopped that. The attorney is drawing up a marital agreement at this time in case we end up in divorce proceedings. It isn't finished yet.

 

I asked her to stop again. I told her it hurts me and angers me. Asked her to start out '04 as a couple in the lifestyle and forgo solo play. She said no, that she plans to see her friend for the forseeable future. She said it's fun and is just sex, that she isn't leaving me and he isn't leaving his wife. She said I was "controlling" and overbearing. I still haven't seen my friend since September and I will not see her. My desire for the lifestyle has diminished now due to the problems we have. She says this is the lifestyle, get used to it. I say the lifestyle is about couples. We pushed the envelope, we both had fun, let's quit now, while we are ahead.

 

Our options are thus:

 

1) I forbid her to see him. (She said that she would be very upset and her feelings for me may change and our sex life would greatly diminsh. Not a good option. Besides, I would want her to stop because she loves me and is of her own volition.)

2) The latest "compromise" from her is for her to be allowed to see him 4-6 more times and continue to IM and phone. This would take us into next September or so. (The problem with this option is that I don't like the stress/anxiety this causes me and I don't feel it's fair to put me through this. I fear there may be some degradation in my feelings for my spouse.)

 

Am I wrong here? Am I too controlling? Should I just let her go and not worry about it? Am I being paranoid? Have we just, after 25 years, come to separate roads? Any other ideas out there? Have any of you out there negotiated solo play successfully?

 

2luvs

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Mr. Twoloves,

From reading this post (can't believe I missed it in July), I don't put much faith in your two options.

 

1) You can't forbid her to see this guy. You've got divorce papers drawn up, she's told you it will change her feelings for you, etc. and you really think forbidding her will work?

2) The compromise from her just delays things while she makes up her mind about what she wants to do about your marriage. I've never heard of anyone saying "just let me see them a few more times and I'll stop." It's kind of like masturbating, if it feels that good, are you really gonna stop even if you say you will?

 

I wish the outcome were better than I think it's going to be, but unfortunately, you both opened Pandora's box up, and it appears very difficult to close it now. From reading your story, it sounds as if your wife is a bit selfish or doesn't value the marriage that much as compared to swinging episodes with this guy.

 

She has definitely departed from the "go as slow as the slowest one wants to go" theory and the "setting boundaries" theory. I really do wish you luck. I'm afraid you'll need lots of it if you choose to stay, and I hope you can work it out rather than toss out 25 years of marriage.

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"She says this is the lifestyle, get used to it."

 

 

 

In the same paragraph she accuses you of being "controlling and overbearing", I believe it is SHE who is controlling YOU!

It may be hard for you to hear this, but it seems to me that she has put her "partying" ahead of the relationship the two of you share.

Iwish you the best of luck in whatever decision you choose to make.

-Michael

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She says this is the lifestyle, get used to it.

 

This is not correct. Your situation is not the lifestyle.

 

I don't want to be presumptious here, given that while you have posted quite eloquently and most likely accurately about the situation, it's still only a posting and forgoes an ability for the rest of us to hear from both parties and others involved as to just what exactly it going on.

 

With that being said.... this is not about swinging, IMHO. This is about her having the respect, care and love for you to put your marriage first and foremost. I'm not reading that.

 

I also resent, always, the 'lifestyle' being used as an excuse to behave abhorrently to a loved one or partner, and perhaps used as an excuse to end or corrupt an existing relationship. Which is why I don't often respond to posts such as these....but..in your case.... you've asked at least twice for input...and in a sincere and open manner.

 

Hope this helps.

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Originally posted by twoloves

For those that have been swinging separate in the past or still are, how's it going? Any rules that you adhere to? Why did you stop? Is it working?

 

Early in our marriage, before we actually played with another couple, we decided to give "an open marriage" a try. Mrs. Alura came up with the first action. She met a "hunky" contractor who was doing repairs of the apartment complex she worked at. We talked about it and I said, "Sure, go for it."

 

It took two dates to get into his pants, but she did. Mr. Alura had no jealousy problems but that may have been eased by the "dude's" underwhelming style in bed. Mrs. Alura decided she didn't care to see the guy again so we tabled the "playing separately" idea for awhile.

 

The next time the subject came up was when Mr. Alura was dancing at a class reunion with his high school sweetheart to "Teen Angel." She snuggled up cheek-to-cheek and whispered, "I'd like to fuck your brains out."

 

"Hey!" he replied. "We can do that! I'm sure it'll be okay with Mrs. Alura."

 

Mrs. Alura prepared a "hotel room care package" which included a scented jar candle, massage oil, and a few other goodies. Neither of us can remember the whole inventory.

 

The question hasn't come up since then. We're sure, if it ever does, we'll handle it as before, a case at a time. The concept of playing separately isn't as important to us as the "team chase." Maybe someday we'll succeed in seducing Mrs. Alura's high school sweetheart.

 

Alura

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Originally posted by twoloves

I asked her to stop again. I told her it hurts me and angers me. Asked her to start out '04 as a couple in the lifestyle and forgo solo play. She said no, that she plans to see her friend for the forseeable future. She said it's fun and is just sex, that she isn't leaving me and he isn't leaving his wife. She said I was "controlling" and overbearing. I still haven't seen my friend since September and I will not see her. My desire for the lifestyle has diminished now due to the problems we have. She says this is the lifestyle, get used to it. I say the lifestyle is about couples. We pushed the envelope, we both had fun, let's quit now, while we are ahead.

 

Our options are thus:

 

1) I forbid her to see him. (She said that she would be very upset and her feelings for me may change and our sex life would greatly diminsh. Not a good option. Besides, I would want her to stop because she loves me and is of her own volition.)

2) The latest "compromise" from her is for her to be allowed to see him 4-6 more times and continue to IM and phone. This would take us into next September or so. (The problem with this option is that I don't like the stress/anxiety this causes me and I don't feel it's fair to put me through this. I fear there may be some degradation in my feelings for my spouse.)

 

Am I wrong here? Am I too controlling? Should I just let her go and not worry about it? Am I being paranoid? Have we just, after 25 years, come to separate roads? Any other ideas out there? Have any of you out there negotiated solo play successfully?

 

2luvs

 

First thing, please suggest strongly that your wife read this thread. I think that you have made yourself perfectly clear. It hurts you when she is out with people other than you, particularly THIS man who, it seems, is trying to carry on a romantic relationship that steps over your boundaries. For your wife to argue that you are being controlling sounds to me that she is trying to shift the blame for your predicament squarely onto you rather than accepting her share of the blame. I agree with the above poster who suggested that it is indeed your WIFE that is controlling in this relationship at this time.

 

It sounds like if you push the situation, she will leave. But, do you really want her to stay if she shows such little regard for your feelings? She obviously has more invested in the relationship with this other man than she is letting on. It needs to stop and it needs to stop NOW!

 

There is never any sex that is better than the relationship between a husband and a wife. If she'd rather be the 3rd wheel in their marriage than be a wife to you, or perhaps break up their marriage as well, you are just going to have to let her. Cut your losses and heal yourself. Only you can make sure your best interests are met.

 

Perhaps, I am underestimating your wife. Perhaps she will come to her senses. Perhaps not.

 

You need to STOP :slam" rationalizing this situation. You need to STOP head bang trying to "compromise" since you are the only one that seems to be compromising anything.

 

Good luck to you.

 

BTW, just curious, what part of OR are you? Please feel free to answer that question in an IM or private email.

 

LC

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Lady Cleo, You said lots there that addresses the core issues of what constitutes a solid relationship: both partners are interested in what is best for them, maintains the relationship, and keeps boundaries intact. Kudos for a well-stated post.

Mr.twoloves, I hope your wife recognizes what she is possibly losing by insisting on 'her way or the highway...' I hope you survive this situation with at least a clearer understanding of what you want......or don't want. You're hearing from lots of couples that they move at the pace of the partner who is least comfortable. To me, this means respecting the relationship instead of giving one person's desires priority. The marriage is the first priority. Period.

Good luck to you.

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While we can't add substantially to the wisdom you've received from Yawanna, Lady Cleo, and Night Goddess, we wish to add our best wishes to both of you in resolving your dilemma. Any marriage as enduring as y'all's is worth saving but both have to want it.

 

It seems possible that two marriages are being threatened here. Have you considered that the time may have come for all four to discuss the situation? Some day, somehow, you're going to have to.

 

We apologize for our light hearted handling of your question in our previous post. Playing separately has never been a big part of our experience or fantasies. Anything that may threaten marriage is not an acceptable part of the life style, in our opinion.

 

We hope the love y'all have enjoyed for many years can support both of you in working this out together.

 

Alura

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Originally posted by twoloves

Am I wrong here? Am I too controlling? Should I just let her go and not worry about it? Am I being paranoid? Have we just, after 25 years, come to separate roads? Any other ideas out there? Have any of you out there negotiated solo play successfully?

 

2luvs

 

Your wife is acting as part of a couple - with this other man. There is more than just friendship and sex here.

Mrs Vjk or I will occassionally play solo with one of our long term friends, but either of us would stop in a second if the other said to. Our friends would also stop immediately if they thought either of us wasn't kewl with it.

J

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Originally posted by twoloves

UPDATE:

 

This continues to be an ongoing problem. The irresistible force meets the immoveable object. Any advice?

 

Since July, when I last wrote, wife and I continued our solo play until late September when I stopped seeing my friend. I stopped seeing my friend because the enjoyment I got from that friendship was not worth the pain I experienced when my wife went off for foursomes with her friend (s).

 

I asked her to stop and get back to doing just couple activity. She said no, that she really enjoyed the friendship and sex. We argued a lot. Harsh words. Hard feelings. I acquiesced to two more of her foursomes. Once in October and once in December. I did this because I thought I owed her (number of times).

 

 

I asked her to stop again. I told her it hurts me and angers me. Asked her to start out '04 as a couple in the lifestyle and forgo solo play. She said no, that she plans to see her friend for the forseeable future. She said it's fun and is just sex, that she isn't leaving me and he isn't leaving his wife. She said I was "controlling" and overbearing. I still haven't seen my friend since September and I will not see her. My desire for the lifestyle has diminished now due to the problems we have. She says this is the lifestyle, get used to it. I say the lifestyle is about couples. We pushed the envelope, we both had fun, let's quit now, while we are ahead.

 

Our options are thus:

 

1) I forbid her to see him. (She said that she would be very upset and her feelings for me may change and our sex life would greatly diminsh. Not a good option. Besides, I would want her to stop because she loves me and is of her own volition.)

2) The latest "compromise" from her is for her to be allowed to see him 4-6 more times and continue to IM and phone. This would take us into next September or so. (The problem with this option is that I don't like the stress/anxiety this causes me and I don't feel it's fair to put me through this. I fear there may be some degradation in my feelings for my spouse.)

 

Am I wrong here? Am I too controlling? Should I just let her go and not worry about it? Am I being paranoid? Have we just, after 25 years, come to separate roads? Any other ideas out there? Have any of you out there negotiated solo play successfully?

 

2luvs

 

If you were still seeing your "friend" would it be ok for her to see her friend? I see it as a "whats good for the goose is good for the gander" situation in which no one wins. Someone is frequently left out in the cold.

 

I'm not sure if I understand you "owing" her....I look at this lifestyle as something you share, together. Not a situation where you compete against each other. Its a team sport.

 

In my humble opinion when you shared your concerns with her the very first time all swinging should have stopped until you two could have come to an agreement of sorts. Boundaries have to be kept and only crossed after serious discussion. Even though my husband and I swing infrequently, we know what we can do and what we can't do. If a situation arises where we are afraid the "rules" will be broken, we talk to each other and honestly share our feelings. We always make sure that we are on the same page. We do this for each other, because we love each other and find it exciting.

 

Besides, I think that he is so absolutely fabulous that I can't help but share him.

 

But back on the subject of you and your wife~~

 

If this is so damning...STOP...NOW...try to salvage your relationship and get back on track. DON'T LOOK BACK....because what is essentially important here is your relationship. Try to continue counselling...what is more important..a few measly dollars or your 25 years of happiness?

 

Zgirl

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it's kinda of hard to say, who might be in the right. i would suggest. tell her if she still wants to play. go for it. but only if you pick who ever and when ever you want. then just wait for her responce. it is true when couples swing it is not meant to hurt anyone. both should be ok with it. or it should not be done. my wife and i both play alone at times and we are ok with it. but my wife only playes with other ladies. and we at times have them spend the night. but thats just us. if your wife knows how you feel then she should stop. if she doesnt. you my friend have some real probs there. cause it would sound like she could be falling for this guy.

 

 

midnightpassion

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In my opinion you are definately NOT too controlling! You are not selfish or wrong in any way. Your wife is going against your wishes which you made very clear a long time ago.

 

I do not like the word "negotiate' which you are using. Swinging, playing, sex etc is not about negotiation it is about shared interests and wishes, about a couple having fun together.

 

Your wife seems very unreasonable and not willing to listen to you. She is the selfish one here.

 

I wish you strength for the months to come, you will need it!

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I realize this is an old thread, but we just had to "weigh in".

 

For us swinging is something for us to share together. Sometimes this includes other men, sometimes other women, and sometimes other couples. Sometimes it even includes "Groups".

 

We never concern ourselves with facts like how many of another sex is involved at any given time....as long as we're both comfortable with the others who are with us.

 

And we never keep a "scorecard" of how many others that she has had, or how many others that he has had, so that we can play "catch up".

 

Our marriage is very strong, but we would never consider swinging alone with another "single" person. No matter how strong the marriage, that just opens up too many possibilities. Also one of our things about swinging is voyeurism, and exhibitionism, so you do sort of need more than two to accomplish that feat.

 

Lastly, one thing I don't think was fair in this situation was the fact that she was not only swinging single with ONLY another man, but she was actually swinging with a group of people without her husband.

 

To us, that would just be entirely going way over the edge.

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Agreed agreed agreed. We can't possibly know what other dynamics are going on in the marriagebut as far as "this is the lifestyle"? You can not use the lifestyle as an excuse to run roughshod over your partner's feelings. If you do - you don't have a partner, you have a roommate. And one who's going to be moving out when the lease is up.

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If having sex with this foursome is more important to her then your marriage then you have big problems and I think unless she willingly changes her ways you are going to need those papers.

 

Swingers can still cheat, and I'd call this cheating.

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The act of Swinging is a mutually agreed upon act if your a couple.

 

Ain't no other way!!!! Otherwise they are acting single and need to be given their single papers.

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I, for one, am in hopes Mr. Twoloves is still around - at least reading the board from time to time. Because I am curious how this situation has worked out for him and his mate.

 

Can't help but feel that since it has been so long since we heard from him that perhaps they are not together any more. Or if they are, that they have decided that 'swinging' was not working out for them.

 

Another one of these frustrating areas of huge discussion but we never get to hear what happens to the folks involved in the initial post.head bang

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Hello again. And thanks for all of your thoughtful replies. I haven't responded on this thread because my wife would rather that we don't air our 'dirty laundry', so to speak.

 

Where we stand now. After I told my attorney to file and began to move out of our bedroom to a downstairs bedroom she finally came around. However, it came down to either I let her do this guy every few months or we get out of the LS. I think that is unreasonable. I still haven't gotten together with my 'friend'. That is over. Whether this marriage is over or not is still up in the air. She is looking at June or July as another 'get together' with this person. It won't be a group thing, I said that was out and she finally agreed. It will be a one on one somewhere, if it goes at all. As the time gets closer my anxiety goes up.

 

I agree with all of the advice of the above. I can't believe that my wife would hang on to this guy so tenaciously. I'm not telling her that she can't screw someone else. I'm just saying that we went to far by each of us going solo, now let's stick to couples.

 

Thanks for you insights.

 

Mr 2luvs.

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I think if you want to continue to swing, you should acquiesce i.e suck it up.

If you're really not worried about losing her and she enjoys the meetings then if I were you I would work on my own attitude. Marriage is compromise and you don't always get what you want. I think that most guys would agree with me when I say that in this lifestyle you really have to keep the women happy. I'm not saying you're not entitled to your feelings, its just that she is entitled to her feelings too. And...If you give yourself a chance you might find that you can take enjoyment by seeing her enjoy herself. In our own experience some of the hottest/most fun sex we ever have is when she returns from a solo date with a guy or couple.

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I totally disagree with willisenei! Marriage is about compromise. But that goes both ways! If something one person is doing is making someone uncomfortable they shouldn't have to compromise to that. Even if he trusta her. If they were to compromise, it should be more on her part. If she is that desperate to fuck other people, then the compromise is that they do it with couples. I am sorry but if someone is that hard set on fucking this one person & not allowing hubby to join or anythign like thta I feel that there are more issues there. Your gut feeling is always right. If you feel bad about something, there probably is something to feel bad about. Never compromise yourself! Always trust yourself!

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It seems like your wife is in a bit of denial...your relationship should come first and it's not.That being said,she definitely has an emotional attachment to this other dude.Bottom line:If one spouse has a problem...those feelings should be respected and taken into consideration.You went into this lifestlye as a couple,-a united front- so to speak...that's the way it should stay.If you absolutely could not handle her flying solo...she should've stopped doing it! It's the whole temptation thing, and forbidden fruit is always the sweetest, :rolleyes: yada yada! We wish you lots of luck!! :)

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I'm sorry to see that things went this way for you. The same thing happened to some friends of mine. :( They had an open marriage-had being the operative word. She was with some other guy for years, he never said a word even though he didn't like it. He starting screwing some other chick, she told him no from the get go-he didn't listen. They are now divorced.

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Just saw the date on the last post from mr twoloves, guess my story will have to serve as a warning for others on here...

 

Hi... We're very new to swinging, but my wife had an affair about a year ago. It started out in the same way, solo play (she asked if it was ok and I said yes), a lot of attention from the guy, etc, etc...

 

I eventually did just what he did, say I'm not happy, u have to stop... She said, "I'm not stopping and that's that." The whole time claiming it's just fun and sex and definitely nothing more... So this went on a while and the more I tried to get her out of this guy the hotter she was for him. Eventually it came to the point where we decided to get divorced. Two days later she was in a car accident that forced me to take care of her for 6 weeks. During this time we slowly grew back together, to the point where we started councelling and sorted out the issues...

 

My advice would have been... Move out. Get her to realise the issue at hand, she's NOT just having fun and a bit of sex with this guy, it's a relationship and one that she's willing to hold onto regardless of your marraige. But at the same time, check what the relationship with this guy is giving her, and replace it with attention in those areas from yourself... Conflicting advice? Definitely...

 

It is possible to work through it, difficult, and expect to be way more unhappy before getting happy again... Sad mr twoloves won't see this...

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Dito Wow this was excellent.

 

I would have to say, your definetly at a point where you need to STOP swinging and get out of the lifestyle and safe your marriage while you still can. IF you even can.

If she's willing to give you up for a little "fun." Stoutgate is right, then it's a relationship. It's more than fun. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Their are places out there that will offer help and counciling at a low cost or some even free. CALL AROUND!!! It's worth it. Take what ever money you would have spent on swinging, condoms, wine, candles, clothing, toys, whatever and invest it in your marriage. Yep, I sound radically, but marriage is the biggest and most important investment you will ever make in your life. Remember the part "till death do you part." That's radical.

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I would say your mistake was not agreeing to rules of engagement that you both should have made.

 

My wife and I have been discussing this, her doing a solo thing, and so far we have agreed on:

1. That she has to let me know and I have to know or have met the guy. No Cheating.

2. I get to pamper her before she leaves. I shave her pussy, I give her a bath, manicure, choose her outfit, etc.

3. No overnights. Just go-fuck-return (3 hrs max time, but this might extend farther out, just a comfort feeling right now for me and includes the drive)

4. I know where she is going to fuck, hotel, his place, etc.(This may change as my comfort level increses) and she has to leave her cell phone on and answer if I call. I worry about her safety.

5. She cannot clean up after fucking or when she leaves. She has to leave his cum in her pussy and the smell of their sex on and in her (This was actually her idea) :)

6. When she gets home she has to give me a detailed account of exactly what happened, this was also her idea.

7. She has to fuck me when she gets home (Also her idea).

 

I think if you had rules to begin with you would have some ground to stand on. But right now I think you have to Suck It Up or talk to your wife and try to formulate some sort of agreement between you two.

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Just saw the date on the last post from mr twoloves, guess my story will have to serve as a warning for others on here...

 

 

My advice would have been... Move out. Get her to realise the issue at hand, she's NOT just having fun and a bit of sex with this guy, it's a relationship and one that she's willing to hold onto regardless of your marraige. But at the same time, check what the relationship with this guy is giving her, and replace it with attention in those areas from yourself... Conflicting advice? Definitely...

 

It is possible to work through it, difficult, and expect to be way more unhappy before getting happy again... Sad

mr twoloves won't see this...

 

 

Very astute...I think what got him into this was his its good for the gander and denied to the goose attitude...He should have been in tune to her feelings before it ment loosing his wife. I am amazed that she offered to get out of the lifestyle and he is still lamenting not getting to have his. He and her are beyond reason and help. Both are being very self-centered and unless that changes..they can play the blame game all they want...it is a hopeless power struggle. No one wins...everybody looses.

 

I really don't think mr and mrs two loves made it. I do think thier name is oddly appropriate to the situation. you can't serve two loves(masters) so the saying goes.

 

I will hold this tale in my memory as a benchmark... I don't think at this time that I will ever be comfortable with the type of single private swing they did. I am just fine with full swap ( provided the other woman's lover is the match of mine , which hasn't happened often) but I think going to meet someone on your own is too much like cheating and just begs for conflict.

 

I would just not be willing to risk it , after reading all of this. I have one love- D2 that is all I want or need... the rest is just play.

 

~Cat

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I have noticed that mr. two loves is online from time to time. It would be great if he would update us. You do not have to be real specific as you had mentioned that your wife was not overjoyed with you posting and all, but it would be nice if you would let us know if you are still together and if you have gone solo swinging or combo swinging, or did you quit that all together. Thanks.

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Hello,

Mr. Twoloves here. Sorry I haven't given updates. Mrs. T didn't want me to. I'm sorry I couldn't reply. Many of you gave great advice.

 

It's ironic that my first post was exactly one year ago today. It's ironic because my attorney filed a petition for dissolution today. Very sad.

 

I have finally had enough. In April when I almost filed but then pulled the petition, thinking that maybe we could finally work things out, I was rewarded with a multitude of lies over the next 3 months. Lies from my wife. She fell under the spell of this married fellow who isn't leaving his wife. He encouraged her deceit. Our 26 yr marriage, a great family, is now in shambles. Destroyed. We are decimated financially if/when this goes through.

 

At the 11th hour of filing this petition she said it would be over with him. No contact. I don't believe it. Time will tell. Too little, too late. I said I would try for reconciliation over the 90 cooling off period, before the dissolution is final, but that I wasn't pulling the paperwork this time.

 

She hasn't yet owned her responsibility for the pain and deceit she has wrought. Until she does, until she shows me that she wants ME, loves ME, then I don't think this will work. There has to be remorse, contrition and a willingness to do whatever it takes to get back on track. I'm not unreasonable, but I'm not going to just accept her word for everything anymore. I did that last time and I got screwed.

 

Needless to say we have dropped the lifestyle for the time being. Possibly forever?

 

We will know the final outcome to this travesty in 90 days or less.

 

If there are any lessons in this sad tale it is this: Don't ever go solo. Always play together. It may be separate room but make sure you're under the same roof. If there is any sign of emotional involvement, don't walk, RUN the other way. Always commit to going as slow as the slowest spouse.

 

Thank you all for your sage and kind advice.

 

Mr. Twoloves

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Thank you for the update Mr. Twoloves...

 

It seems to me like u have been trying like hell to be able to hang around for a year. I was ready to quit after 6 months. So I'll say good luck, sounds to me like u still have an outside chance if she's asking you to reconsider, and I wish to remind you of the first paragraph you posted...

 

Solid marriage, coupla decades, middle aged, absolute trust, great communication, swingin' for several years, full swap...not belt notchers but experienced...

 

The whole reason I started reading this thread, then I read about your problem, and I thought about how much it reminded me of our situation... The problem is getting back the trust, the rest follows by itself. But I think (our experience) is that the way for her to regain your trust is to be excruciatingly honest, ie clear up the past and move on... If she can manage total honesty you have a chance... And 90 days is enough to see a difference, but don't expect to be happy...

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I am really, deeply sorry. I can not imagine how difficult that must be.

 

At the 11th hour of filing this petition she said it would be over with him. No contact. I don't believe it. Time will tell. Too little, too late. I said I would try for reconciliation over the 90 cooling off period, before the dissolution is final, but that I wasn't pulling the paperwork this time.

 

For whatever it's worth, I do agree with you in Not pulling the paperwork, however, please do take this time and see if she is serious about getting back together. See a councilor. If she goes, that's the first step. Also, like you said "no swinging" right now. It would probably be good to also abstain from sexual contact with each other as well. Right now you need to concintrate on the realationship aspect of the marriage. If it's even possible to do that. Again, I am very, very sorry.

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Hello,

Mr. Twoloves here.

 

If there are any lessons in this sad tale it is this: Don't ever go solo. Always play together. It may be separate room but make sure you're under the same roof. If there is any sign of emotional involvement, don't walk, RUN the other way. Always commit to going as slow as the slowest spouse.

 

Thank you all for your sage and kind advice.

 

Mr. Twoloves

 

EXCELLENT ADVICE!!!!! I hope others who have asked about going solo read your tale and learn from it. The best lessons learned are the ones you can share.

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If there are any lessons in this sad tale it is this: Don't ever go solo. Always play together. It may be separate room but make sure you're under the same roof. If there is any sign of emotional involvement, don't walk, RUN the other way.

 

I disagree on not going solo. If you're relationship allows it why not? We don't BTW

 

In my opinion the lesson to learn is: Always be sure of what you are taking from the other party. Sex? Or a fullfillment of an emotional need? If the answer is #2 your relationship is in jeopardy... Stop what u are doing (even for couple on couple play) and get to some form of relationship therapy asap. And of course, break off any contact with the other person.

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Mr. Twoloves, I'm awfully sorry it's come to this for you, but I think you're doing the right thing. It's tough to walk away, but sometimes you just have to in order to preserve your self. I wish you the best in putting this behind you....

 

-B

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Hmmm... Everytime I see Mr. TwoLoves' name pop up I revisit this thread... Did you make it? I saw you posting about "WE" in another thread...

 

Hope to hear from you soon, Mr. TwoLoves...

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My thoughts are that if both are not in agreement with situations then dont do it.

anytime we have had experiences, we have both been in agreement as to who with and what each is comfortable with.

We have only had other Men to play with my wife. im included as one of the guys. and she loves that. I do to, love to watch her please and be pleased. We have thought about couples but she is not sure she could handle seeing me with another woman. IM fine with the situation we have at present, and we are both having fun. Thats what this lifestyle is about isnt it?

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