"Taking one for the Team"?

Thank you all in advance as I have been trying to deal with these issues alone and now I know where to go.

My husband is absolutely the most perfect mate for me on this planet. We think alike, finish sentences, and even understand a look from across the room. If two pople were ever soul-mates, it would be us.

Only one issue keeps us from complete, mutual understanding: Swinging.

He had a former girlfriend who introduced him to the lifestyle and his girlfriends since have joined the lifestyle with him. I have known about his attraction to swinging since the beginning and I honestly thought it would be something I could handle.

He discusses the subject in spurts; there are times he wants to play and times he is happy to just be home. He has finally told me he is ready to play. He knows I will do anything he asks, so we had made plans for a party this coming Saturday. I can't stop crying. I do not even begin to want anyone else and I am hurt that he does. Since he has experience here, he cacnelled our plans to attend since it is not a good idea to take one for the team. It hurts feelings all the way around.

So, here I am, wanting to make my husband happy (he was like a kid on Christmas Eve when he thought we were going) and I can't because the idea of anyone else touching me just doesn't turn me on and the thought of seeing him with another womn cuts the heart.

He already has me going to a therapist to work on jealousy issues so that won't be a problem, but what else can I do? Can I do anything to hurry this process along? He deserves my very best effort; I just don't know how to start.

Swinging is defenitely not for everybody Ophelia. It sounds to me like you have a bunch of issues to get through before you should even think about swinging. Swinging only works when everybody involved is of like minds and on the same page, so to speak. If one person is not into it then it would be obvious to anyone you hook up with. Remember, a couple should always progress at the speed of the slowest person. In your case I don't think it would be possible for you to "take one for the team" without causing serious damage to your relationship.

ophelia said:

He already has me going to a therapist to work on jealousy issues so that won't be a problem, but what else can I do? Can I do anything to hurry this process along? He deserves my very best effort; I just don't know how to start.

Whoa! Now what is this about, ophelia? He has you going to a therapist to work on jealousy issues so that won't be a problem? A problem with what? With swinging? Other than this thing with swinging, are you unreasonably jealous?

Good Times is right - swinging isn't for everyone. Beyond that, tho', it is really concerning to me that this is something you feel you can't do yet you are the one going to a therapist. What about him? Is he going to therapy with you? If you are going to therapy to deal with jealousy issues related to swinging, it would be my suggestion he go with you to deal with his issues of trying to make you do things you are not comfortable with. Most any couple on this board will tell you the thing about moving as fast as the slowest partner and that's all well and fine. But this therapy thing has me shaking my head.

Please come back with more details. Hopefully, I've got this totally wrong.

Ophelia,

Don't ever consider taking one for the team. It is a MAJOR mistake. Swinging isn't for everyone, it may not be for you. Getting rid of jealousy issues may not be a bad idea, but that doesn't mean you are ready to share either. Follow your head and your gut.

Wow, some answers already?

Thank you.

He is understanding of the lowest partner theory; the pressure to hurry is more self-induced than not. I feel like he is missing something important to him and I am standing in the way.

The therapy is his idea. He says I need to work on jealousy anyway. Of course, I don't see myself as a raging jealous lunatic, but he is not the first to notice a jealous streak in me, so something must be there. He says it would be a good issue to work on anyway.

He also suggest I work on my own self-esteem as my jealousy may spring from a fear of losing him. He has a point. I certainly see my husband as a 10 with myself as a solid 6 1/2. He tells me ll the time I could never lose him and he loves me to pieces, but I still have a small voice in my head wondering why????? I have bout 15-20 more baby pounds to lose, but otherwise, I am pretty darn cute...I just don't remember that all the time when compared to him.

Yep, I know, I have him on a pedestal.......

Quote

He already has me going to a therapist to work on jealousy issues so that won't be a problem, but what else can I do?

This statement really bothers me. First off therapy wont work unless you are doing it for YOU not him.

I agree with the others swinging isn't for everyone. You should never ever do it unless you are doing it for you! Not to please him. If you aren't sure then dont do it. We have meet the women who are dragged into this lifestyle...believe me you can tell in no time that they dont really want to be there. It totally isn't fair to you and not fair to put another couple in that position. It always really pisses me off that a woman would do this just to please her man! It is time to stand up for yourself! If you dont want to play...say NO if he doesn't like it tuff sh....I hate to say it but no amount of therapy is going to make you comfy with swinging if it is truly something that you dont want to do. If you do it to make him happy, all you are doing is making yourself miserable. If he loves you and you are soul mates, then does he really want to make you so unhappy??? I am not trying to bash either one of you but I've seen this happen more than once and i really dont understand why someone would put themselves in that position. I love my husband and i feel we are soul mates but believe me...if I didn't enjoy this lifestyle we wouldn't be doing it and he would drop the subject and that would be that. It is called respect for each other!

my 2 cents for the day

Dito to all the excellent advice given!

Some people just can't swing. Period. There is nothing wrong with monogomy.

This type of lifestyle obviously isn't for you, ophelia. Don't beat yourself up because of it. Why force yourself into something you'll probably regret?

If you let him persuade you into doing this it might potentially cause your marriage serious irreparable harm.

Your wants and desires are just as important as his! Stand firm!

If your husband can't understand that then maybe he's the one that needs therapy. He married you. He didn't marry a swinger. He already made his choice.

Thanks, ophelia, for coming back with a little more info. First off, that's great that you see him as a 10. I bet I wouldn't. Point being, when we love someone, we do tend to see them as 10's. He married you...I'm betting he see's you as a 10, also -- 20 pounds of left over baby fat or not. Give yourself some credit here, OK?

If you are going to counseling because you think you need to go, again, that's great. It never hurts to work on self-esteem issues - we could all use a dose of that every now and then. But going to counseling just to get you geared up for swinging...it won't work. I don't care how high your self-esteem gets -- if you aren't happy with the idea of sharing your husband, it will only get deflated in short measure and all that work will be for naught. As for the jealousy, if you are the jealous type that might all wash out in the self-esteem building part of counseling. Then...after all that is done and said, you may want to start talking about swinging. But clear up all these other issues first. Otherwise, I'm afraid you'll find yourself feeling miserable.

As far as what he is wanting you to do...Vespertine really made an excellent point...worth repeating here....

Quote

He married you. He didn't marry a swinger. He already made his choice.

ophelia said:

I feel like he is missing something important to him and I am standing in the way.

Oh, sweetie...

*shaking my head*

This is an incredibly noble reason to look into the lifestyle and I applaud your open mind. But the only thing he seems to be missing - from what I have read - is the joys of having a confident, self-assured wife. Swinging is not some inalienable right that all men are born with - it is something that grows naturally (at best) from a marriage of two like minded people. It isn't something that he can want and you have to "go along with".

My wife WANTS to swing... That's what makes it so hot... But I could never force her to - or guilt her into it. Because the bottom line is that if you go through with this, you are going to have to deal with the reality of some other woman touching your "perfect 10" while entertaining a man with whom you wish you weren't playing... Is there any amount of therapy that can really help you "deal with that"? Really, really search yourself for that answer...

As for jealousy - it is a valid emotion. It happens in all relationships when something we love is in danger of being taken away. Some in the lifestyle deal with that emotion to lesser degrees, but it is still there. That emotion is telling you that you can't handle sharing your mate with someone else - AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!!!

Listen to that emotion - it is your own soul's fair and unbiased opinion about the whole topic of swinging.

Never, ever, ever, take one for the team!!!

We are mostly soft swap and let me tell you I would never do anything that I felt uncomfortable with just to make my spouse happy and I would never expect my spouse to ever do anything for me that they were not only willing to do but excited to do.

Out of curiosity, did you know about your hubby's desire to swing before you were married? We were dating for a year before swinging and were in the lifestyle for a year before we got married.

Whew!! A lot of good advice in the previous post. At the risk of sounding crude/straight forward, whatever. Does your man value swinging more than he values you and your marriage? If so I think therapy would be good for him. Swinging is something I do sometimes. It is not my life. I d*** sure wouldn't place it higher on the rungs of life's ladder than a good and stable marriage.

Maybe you do have jealously issues but I don't think that is the only reason you don't want to swing. I think y'all are going about this totally wrong for y'all. Maybe he figures once you "get started" you will enjoy it as much as him. But he risks losing everything and crushing you emotionally in the process if it doesn't work out that way, doesn't he? Life is full of risk and obviously he feels it is a risk he is willing to take.

But follow all the prior good advice. Don't, I repeat DON'T swing until you are ready and then do it only on terms and conditions you are comfortable with. No one is worth your self esteem, self worth, and self image. NO ONE

I hope everything works out for you both.

Maybe he figures once you "get started" you will enjoy it as much as him.

THAT'S IT! He says that all the time!

Yes, I knew about his interest in the lifestyle before we were married, which is part of my guilt because I thought I would be able to do this one day and I haven't been able to follow through yet. Maybe I still consider us newlyweds as we have only been married 3 1/2 years. This is my second marriage but his first. We are 41 and 36.

He doesn't understand my aversion as I am a recovering sex-addict. This lifestyle should be a freakin' buffet for me, but now that I have found him, nobody else really measures up. Antonio Bandaras could come to me in nothing but a damp white towel, fresh from the shower, and although I might enjoy the view, I wouldn't feel a need to rip off the towel and ride like the Kentucky Derby. When I was nearing rock bottom, I would have jumped Jabba the Hut just to say I had done it. I have been in remission since meeting my husband. He is the ONLY man I have ever been faithful to.

This just gets more convoluted as we go. Thank all of you again...you are being so helpful.

Well, that opens a whole new light on things. Tell me, if you were a recovering alcoholic would he think therapy would allow you to drink socially again? Does he realize what a can of worms this could open? Has he ever tried to put toothpaste back in the tube?

I am now at a loss for words. People with more insight into all this will step in I am sure. There are a lot of experienced, wise people on this board that are eager to help. Listen to them.

The therapy is his idea.

Let me clarify here before my sweetie is over-vilified. I was being sent to the shrink for depression anyhoo (Yes, part of my depression stems from not being able to do this for my husband after having years to rap my brain around the idea); my husband simply suggested a "while you are there, how about working on some jealousy and self-esteem issues as well?"

As for why he just doesn't abandon the whole idea, he thinks it would be dishonest to tell me he would never think about it again. He is going to hold hope that one day I can enter the lifestyle. He says if I don't, then he will be content to remain monogamous; he doesn't NEED the lifestyle like he needs to keep his family. We do come first.

I just want to do this for him as he does so much for me. Does that make any sense?

As for the addiction, if I could find a way to change the addiction from an ON/Off switch to a dimmer switch, I wouldn't be so afraid of reverting to old, bad behaviors either.

I am sure more of the story will come out in parts. I certainly didn't mean to vilifie anyone.

I won't go into my profession or such but yes, you're right it would be good if you had a dimmer switch but addictions are either on or off.

I am most certainly glad to hear he would be glad to live monogamous but maybe while he's at it, he could quit asking about it???

I have said too much now and had already said I was at a loss for words.

So be it.

Good luck to you both

I think it is sweet that ophelia wants to try to accommodate her hubby's desires. It certainly speaks well for her that she is here trying to get information and advice.

As we have seen on this board many times, the original desire is from one or the other in a couple and the second basically goes along with some trepidation. And fairly often the one with the trepidation ends up liking it a whole lot more than the one who got the ball rolling. Gawd, I love irony !!! Maybe this is behind ophelia's hesitation given her past history.

To tell you the truth, I don't mind "taking one for the team". Unless there is a hygiene issue, I will merrily play with someone I'm not particularly attracted to if it means MrsVjk has a good time. Doesn't bother me at all.

It really is up to ophelia what she wants to do. She might start just going to titty bars with hubby to see how she handles an erotic experience, maybe then graduate to going to a club without playing, just to get some exposure so to speak. Maybe go on to soft swinging.

We don't have hubby's input, so we only have ophelia's side of the story. MrsVjk and I often have quite different views of a situation, and if someone else only heard one side they would wonder how we could stand being in the same universe with each other. Well, maybe not THAT bad, but you get the idea.

So my suggestion is, lets help ophelia look at the situation from all sides and simply support her in whatever course of action SHE decides is best for her.

**huggles*

OH boy,

Ok reminder I am a newbie, but i gotta step in and say it. Would HE stop for you. WOuld he take one for the team.

I am just going to be honest I WOULD. If my wife said right now that we should stop, damn straight I would without hesitation. Would I never bring the subject up again, well I will be honest I probably would, but I have at least learned not to pressure cook her to give in. That never works.

I am not an expert, I am speaking from someone who hasn't done anything in the lifestyle who is treading on the edge of the lake waiting to jump in, If the wife didn't wanna swim, I guess I am sunbathing that day

The point is I love, and I mean LOOOOOVE my wife more than any fantasy and anything that threatened that love I would do my best to deal with. If things got to hot on my end, then I would go to therpy.

Now I have to ask, would he do the same for you?

MR. VJK? I hope I remembered your handle correctly.....perhaps I will put hubby onto this thread later, but I need to clarify some issues from my own perspective before I fall behind his shadow, as I am want to do. He tends to want to defend himself and the lifestyle and I might not be able to ask honest questions without tromping his feelings. I let him see some of this so I get his point of view, but some things I can't show him yet. I do understand your point, though.

As for my fellow newbie...I think you and my husband have much in common. He tells me he would do anything for me, including never play...it's just that I want to do this for him becaue I know it would make him happy. Being here to get some answers is part of a last ditch effort to give it my best college try. I want to exhaust all possibilitites before I say, "I really give up; it's beyond my capabilities."

Although we applaud your efforts to learn as much about this lifestyle as you can, we do have a few words of advice for anyone who is unsure in this pursuit.

Everyone needs to be absolutely certain that they, themselves, want to explore swinging. You CANNOT get into swinging just because your SO wants you to.

It is unfair to yourself, your SO and especially the people you would be playing with. The people you play with deserve better than what at best would be a half hearted encounter and at worst a crying drama fest. We believe that you should never inflict your problems on someone else and as long as there may be a problem you should not attempt to play with anyone.

You cannot do this to make your husband happy, you have to do this because it is something that you want to do as well.

I have to admit to being somewhat of a newbie to this, with the limited experiences we have had, there has always been a common rule to this lifestyle that we have found. "NO MEANS NO" not only between couples/3somes, but partners as well.

Some of us are soft swing, some full, some have "special" limits that is shared only between partners. What ever the rule that you two set, it should be agreed upon before hand. So there can be a slow start, limited actions, and in general a set goal for you both to adhere too.

I agree with the feeling that a recovering alcoholic shouldn't be asked to drink again! And maybe your prior addiction should be included with this feeling. But the reason for your addiction could be more of response to what you feel/felt about yourself (only a 6 1/2), rather than a physical addiction that alcohol becomes. Only you can decide that, even if it take some help to find it out.

From a guys point of view, I see that your husband is trying to take your interests and make them the priority for you both. He stopped the trip to the party, he is willing to wait and make sure that this is something that YOU want to be a part of. I too have told my wife for years that I loved her just the way she is, and that I wanted to see her naked body so much more than she ever let me. It wasn't until other guys started paying attention to her, that she really caught on that I was telling the truth.

Listen to him and your heart, you might realize that the love between you is stronger than the other Physical attractions that you would get from the lifestyle.

Ophelia,

Taking one for the team? It sounds as if you have been taking therapy to regain your self-esteem and break your addiction and now your husband is disregarding all your efforts , and blames (or uses ) jealousy as the problem.

A lot of good advice has already been given. Swinging is not for everyone, and you should not agree just to give in. Your husband should be considerate of your feelings , especially because of your efforts and reasons for going to therapy to break your addiction. It's probably not a jealously issue at all. Your husband should also be going the therapy with you to understand what you are going through and also to find out what his desires might mean to your marriage. In a loving relationship each partner should and respect the others feelings and wishes as much or more than their own . If it's not something you wish to do, your husband should drop the subject and work on improving your marriage.

I hope it works out for you, your husband, and your marriage.

I hope I didn't come off to harsh there ophelia. I do feel at tad strongly about the issue since I was unknowingly pressureing my wife. Anyway I hope you can work this out to where you are happy.

Perhaps you should approach this from a new angle...As for your remission,have you told him that you are like any other addict who needs to steer clear of the substance of choice? Have you explained to him exactly what being a sex addict means? And,have you told him or does he realize once he opens that can of worms, odds are you'll go buck wild all over again and not necessarily just in swinging situations? He seems a little ignorant to me...{by ignorant I mean,uninformed...not stupid }Does he like to read?Because he needs some education about addiction.He needs to go to therapy with you and hear it from your counselor exactly how this addiction works.You do not OWE it to him to "swing" his way.He needs to come to terms with the fact that he may never swing again and that's the bottom line.He's disrespecting you and totally disregarding your feelings.And, to be able to get into this lifestyle to begin with, you have to have a firm foundation which among other things, requires a lot of respect for one another. Do not let any one pressure you into doing anything you do not feel comfortable with,I don't give a damn who it is!!You will lose all respect for yourself and forget about any self-esteem...that'll fly out the window too!

It seems like you need to take care of you...and deal with all your issues,and he should be your support system and love you with or without the swing!

Hello everyone, my wife and i are newbies in the lifestyle and i was the one to bring it up and i was the one interested in it and she tried it cause she was curious .. After playing the first time i i have had these same jealousy issues and fear of losing my wife that ophelia is having. I am trying really hard to get over them and just have fun because my wife loves the lifestyle and the openess.. I on the other hand realize truly how much i love her and want ONLY her .. I haven't come right out and said i want to stop because i'm afraid that she will hate me for taking something away from her .. I would endure any pain i cause myself while doing this just to see her happy and having fun .. Deep down inside i don't want to do it anymore but i keep doing it because she wants to .. I'm the type of person that prepares for the worst and no matter how many times she tells me she loves me i keep thinking that there must be something that she doesn't love if she still wants to do be in the lifestyle and i am setting myself up for a huge fall i know i am .. I love my wife very much and would do anything for her to see her happy.. We were playing seperatley and she went to one of our friends house yesterday while his wife was out of town and the entire day i was fighting back tears .. Before we started playing we made the rule that we would always use protection .. The first time we played on the trip to our friends house i kept reminding her to use a condom and she assured me she would .. I asked her if she did and she said no .. That right there threw me back a little in my work on getting over my jealousy .. The entire day she was over at our friends house i was thinking she's not going to use a condom and i was picturing them laying in bed holding each other in their arms and slowly kissing and staring in each others eyes.. I'm not mad at anyone for this and for the way i feel because it was my idea and i had an idea on what was going to happen .. I just wasn't ready for it as i thought i was .. I'm continuing with the lifestyle cause i want her to have fun but it is tearing away at my self respect and the image i have of myself but to me it's all worth it to see her smile .. I would appreciate any advice that yall have to give ..

A lot of good advice has been given in this thread. But I have a couple of things to add...

Firstly, I'm seriously thinking we're being a bit harsh on him here. From everything ophelia is saying he's more than willing to shelve this fantasy. They have obviously talked about this a lot, and him being honest about his fantasy is a good thing, as long as he is not pressuring her. From the way you describe the situation, and more precisely this part:

Quote: Originally Posted by curiousagain

Maybe he figures once you "get started" you will enjoy it as much as him.

 

THAT'S IT! He says that all the time!

it does sound like he is putting a bit of pressure on you Ophelia, don't give in to pressure. It will harm your relationship.

Now, as for you swinging, please take your time untill you are totally comfortable with the idea of seeing your partner having another. If you never get comfortable, you can never swing without risking your relationship. It was summed up so well by TNT:

Although we applaud your efforts to learn as much about this lifestyle as you can, we do have a few words of advice for anyone who is unsure in this pursuit.

 

Everyone needs to be absolutely certain that they, themselves, want to explore swinging. You CANNOT get into swinging just because your SO wants you to.

 

It is unfair to yourself, your SO and especially the people you would be playing with. The people you play with deserve better than what at best would be a half hearted encounter and at worst a crying drama fest. We believe that you should never inflict your problems on someone else and as long as there may be a problem you should not attempt to play with anyone.

 

You cannot do this to make your husband happy, you have to do this because it is something that you want to do as well.

As for MScouple04:

Firstly, I think it should be a different thread... Your situation is much different from that of Ophelia.

Are you playing seperately? That is, do you basically have an open relationship? This is not swinging, some swingers do play solo, most do not. We've had a couple of solo experiences, and it is hard. There are huge jealousy issues if you're not 100% sure of your relationship. It sounds like you are not there.

Is the only playing (read sex) you've done your wife with this friend? Have you touched another person?

I'd seriously suggest you get out of that type of situation as soon as possible. The friend's wife (how can you two be friends of this woman?) obviously doesn't know and this is another storm you are about to jump into. His wife IS going to find out and it will lead to problems in the long term, married men are not safe if they are willing to cheat on their spouses...

If you want to give her the fantasy, try swinging in couple - couple situations only. It might work for you to share an experience, not have personal experiences apart from each other. But I'd suggest you get out of any open relationship and swinging type activities untill your trust in her is restored and you are totally comfortable with the idea.

The day you want to see her with another is the day you should reconsider trying to get back into the lifestyle. The experience you had is extremely unsettling and nobody can blame you for feeling the way you do. Good luck on clearing this up, from someone who's been there...

MS Couple 04

I am SOOOOO with you. You voiced exactly how I feel. I would cut off a mammary gland for my husband, but I just can't understand how he can say he loves me as much as he does and still have this overwhelming desire to do somebody else.

They must be wired differently?????

Stoutgatte,

Thank you for defending my sweetie's honor. I know he is doing his best to be patient with me, but part of him is really chomping at the bit and it shows more than he thinks it does.

OK, he has decided to put his two cents in here, so here goes:

"Well I am Ophelia's husband. So here is my side of the story: I love my wife dearly and told her if she cant do this then we wont. BUT you do not know her like I do...If I mention I like something (even in passing) I usually find it coming in the mail from ebay within the month (so I have had to learn to be careful what I say because she is such a nurturing mate and mother - she does this for the kids also). I did tell her about my past in the lifestyle when it looked like we were getting serious. We agreed to "ALWAYS" tell each other the truth because even little lies (i.e. "no dear you look wonderful in the white balloon shaped dress with the ruffles") will erode trust over time. In the beginning, when I told her she said she had a pretty "colorful" sexual past also and she thought she could play in the lifestyle given some time to look into it. Its been almost four years, and only recently has she started telling me how hard it is for her to do this. That may be my fault also, sometimes we hear only what we want to hear. I reiterate, WE WILL NOT PLAY TILL SHE IS READY - IF AND WHEN SHE IS READY!

She gave me permission to play without her (I am out of town due to work a lot). I will not play without her. I told her I want to play with her in the lifestyle - NOT in spite of her.

I was in the lifestyle as a couple and as a single for 5-7 years. I saw a lot of good and some bad in the lifestyle. Some of the best friendships I have ever made were lifestylers (i.e. hard not to be friends with someone when you've had your face between their legs - lol). To me, the lifestyle is like having really great friends you can barbeque, see movies, watch TV or take trips with and add to that you can have sex with them also. Best of friends plus something extra.

My baby has ONLY been in remission since we have been dating (I found that out last nite). She is not sure why she is in remission...she thinks because I dont ignore her...maybe because I told her do not cheat, if you feel the need - call a lifestyler friend (it sort of takes away the fun of doing something your not supposed to do - I think and I want to make sure she plays with someone safe - no PSYCHOS).

As far as our relationship goes, I love her more than life itself. But I do know enough about addiction (I may have a lessor form of the addiction),to know you are NEVER cured....only in remission or under control. So eventually she may start feeling the old urges....if she needs it (with or without the lifestyle) then We will deal with it together.

Additionally, she is VERY submissive. She got turned on when I took control and told her what to do when we were Yahoo video conferencing with a couple a few nites ago...do I think she would enjoy lifestyle eventually?....a strong Maybe...will I force her to "TAKE ONE FOR THE TEAM'? - Never!!!

I do think she needs to come to grips with why i love her - if she was one legged, weighed 400 lbs and drooled constantly..she could not get rid of me with dynamite. She thinks she is a 6 1/2 and Im a 10....what she doesn't realize is that I'm the 6 1/2 and she is the 10! I love her for what she is to us (kids and I) when she is not being 'my little slut puppy' in bed!

I hope we can play in the lifestyle someday (when/if see is ready)...we moved too fast and she was not ready for a party now... we will take things slow and let her decide what she likes and doesn't like...but i think it is good that she is finding out as much as she can about the lifestyle so she can make an INFORMED decision.

I am now getting off my soapbox...ty"

I'll be the first to admit I was a tad harsh.

But, you are right ophelia, Men and women are wired differently. I will say from my own experence it is hard for some people to remember that they cannot control anything but thier own behavior. Take that as you will. I feel like anything else said by me on that will sound pushy.

Well, after reading your hunny's post...The only advice is just to take it very, very, very slowly.Never do anything until you are entirely sure about things.You both have said some really touching things about eachother and the love you share between you,so your foundation is set.Good luck in the future...

Yep, let me reiterate: Take it very, very slow. Remember, you may never be right for swinging, and if you're not comfortable, don't do it...

Thanks for your hubby's input, it makes for a more balanced view of things.

To the mr:

Try to reassure your wife as much as possible. It seems to me like there is some issues you two need to work at together, this is just a general gut feel from her posts on swinging. The way that she latched onto certain phrases in this thread might be attributed to her personality as you explained it, but it might also be that you are unknowingly pressuring her. Just watch out for that, I know its hard to see something you are not conciously doing, but try.

Good luck in sorting this out. I don't think you'll be ready for swinging for a long time, use the fantasy, stay away from acting on it.

I think everyone missunderstood what i said about our friend and his wife .. They are swingers and they play seperately .. I think my problem is I just dove right in .. didn't do much research on it or anything and instead of starting off as playing together we just jumped in head first .. It may be my fault but I love my wife very much and I am 99 % sure of our relationship and the reason it's only 99 is because the other 1 % isn't because i don't trust her it's because i feel like eventually especially the type of person i am will wind up pushing her away if i don't get my emotions under control .. I can't live with that .. I want to die by her side .. I never want to be 1 second without her .. I will do anything to make this work because my wife likes it and i love seeing the smiles on her face .. I have fun also so it's not completely terrible .. I just need to get over my insecurities .. I know she loves me she tells me and shows me everyday .. I feel like she deserves better than me and that's my problem .. I know she deserves better and now that it's a reality that she may actually find someone better I don't think she would leave me but you never truly know i don't want her to leave but if she found someone that could make her truly happy and feel more loved than i do then i wish her the greatest of luck ( not saying i wouldn't stalk her for awhile though ) .. My whole life from the time i married her is and always will be keep her happy, make her feel the greatest love that I can give and doing anything to keep her in my life .. Without her i know i would be nothing .. On that note i am completely sure about our relationship.. She hasn't done a single thing wrong since we've been married and that's what scares me .. I've done alot wrong and the thought of her being hurt makes me want to kill myself , and if she asked i would do it in a heartbeat.. I know she wouldn't though cause i see it in her eyes that she loves me just as much if not more than i love her ..

Our friends are swingers and his wife knew about them being together yesterday .. We are going to play together and only with them for awhile until i get more comfortable with it or start taking illegal drugs .. lol .. i'm kidding .. They are great people and they are great friends and even if we did get out of the lifestyle i know they would still be our friends ... Most of the problems i am having right now are MY problems , nothing that my wife or our friends have done.. I appreciate all of your advice and would like to get more from all of you .. Thanks ..

I know how you're feeling and if you just are not ready don't beat yourself up over it. I was with another man for my husband because he wanted it and actually it took me a while to agree with it. I still can't take the fact of him being with someone else so that hasn't happened yet. He likes watching me with someone else and so for now that is a mutual agreement between us. I don't know if I will ever be able to let him be with someone else. That sounds pretty selfish but he respects the way I feel and understands. You have to look within yourself and figure out what you can respect yourself for after the fact. It takes time and you either agree or not. Just think of it has a new experience.

Hi Anna,

I love what you wrote about looking inside yourself...that is real solid excellent advice.In the end, we all have to be okay inside...within ourselves.

I think everyone missunderstood what i said about our friend and his wife .. They are swingers and they play seperately .. I think my problem is I just dove right in .. didn't do much research on it or anything and instead of starting off as playing together we just jumped in head first

Going to quickly can become a big problem. Once again, you only go as fast as the slowest person. Maybe you and your wife needs to slow down a bit. When I first read you were playing seperately (or at least she is) and you are new at this whole thing, I wondered about it.

.. It may be my fault but I love my wife very much and I am 99 % sure of our relationship and the reason it's only 99 is because the other 1 % isn't because i don't trust her it's because i feel like eventually especially the type of person i am will wind up pushing her away if i don't get my emotions under control .. I can't live with that .. I want to die by her side .. I never want to be 1 second without her .. I will do anything to make this work because my wife likes it and i love seeing the smiles on her face .. I have fun also so it's not completely terrible .. My whole life from the time i married her is and always will be keep her happy, make her feel the greatest love that I can give and doing anything to keep her in my life .. Without her i know i would be nothing .. On that note i am completely sure about our relationship.. She hasn't done a single thing wrong since we've been married and that's what scares me .. I've done alot wrong and the thought of her being hurt makes me want to kill myself , and if she asked i would do it in a heartbeat.. I know she wouldn't though cause i see it in her eyes that she loves me just as much if not more than i love her ..

This screams of codependence, which is neither healthy for you or her. I know this because I was very codependent in my first marriage, and even now, almost 10 years later, I still need to be aware of when I am slipping into codependent spells. I need to recognize when I'm giving up too much of myself for my wife.

I just need to get over my insecurities .. I know she loves me she tells me and shows me everyday .. I feel like she deserves better than me and that's my problem .. I know she deserves better and now that it's a reality that she may actually find someone better I don't think she would leave me but you never truly know i don't want her to leave but if she found someone that could make her truly happy and feel more loved than i do then i wish her the greatest of luck ( not saying i wouldn't stalk her for awhile though )

This screams of low self esteem. You feel your wife deserves better than you. Well she picked you, so you are exactly what she wants.

IMO, you need some counseling to get over 1) your codependence issues, and 2) your low self-esteem issues. Until then, you will not be in a healthy state of mind for your wife and family.

One of my favorite quotes for when I'm feeling not so self-assured:

"A competent and self-confident person is incapable of jealousy in anything. Jealousy is invariably a symptom of neurotic insecurity." R.A. Heinlein

Before we started playing we made the rule that we would always use protection .. The first time we played on the trip to our friends house i kept reminding her to use a condom and she assured me she would .. I asked her if she did and she said no ..

This can be a big trust issue, and you have a right to feel suspicious about this. If you agreed on protection there should be no doubt in your mind that she is using it, when you swing together or solo. This kind of behavior obviously leads you to not trust other things she says or does. Does she realize this?

Our friends are swingers and his wife knew about them being together yesterday .. We are going to play together and only with them for awhile until i get more comfortable with it or start taking illegal drugs .. lol .. i'm kidding .. They are great people and they are great friends and even if we did get out of the lifestyle i know they would still be our friends ... Most of the problems i am having right now are MY problems , nothing that my wife or our friends have done.. I appreciate all of your advice and would like to get more from all of you .. Thanks ..

This sounds like a good idea since it seems your friends are more experienced and have a handle on their relationship. However, I would suggest you stop swinging solo until you are more comfortable with the whole scenario in general.

I'm not mad at anyone for this and for the way i feel because it was my idea and i had an idea on what was going to happen .. I just wasn't ready for it as i thought i was .. I'm continuing with the lifestyle cause i want her to have fun but it is tearing away at my self respect and the image i have of myself but to me it's all worth it to see her smile.

From your whole post your life sounds like "The Mrs. Show" to me. Either you've made it this way, or she has and you let her. Either way your relationship is way off balance.

It sounds to me like you need to build some self-confidence and draw a line in the sand where your limits are. You are doing everything to accomodate her at the expense of your own feelings and self-esteem, and it is eating you up inside. Does she know this? Have you told her? Or is she inadvertently hurting you because you haven't spoken up?

Once again, you need to slow down or stop until you are comfortable. Doing more of what is hurting you will not make it hurt any less. All your doing is picking at an open wound.

Your feelings are not wrong. They are real and valid. Sometimes the other person takes to it more than you thought they would, and it shocks your senses hard. Things you thought would never be an issue all of a sudden are. Your wife needs to respect this and slow down. It sounds like she loves you, so this should not be an issue to accomodate you regarding this matter.

I now return you to the original thread.

Mr. WS

My wife loves me deeply and we have talked and we are going to stop for a little while and talk to a counselor and get myself back on my anxiety medication .. My wife has done nothing wrong .. We talk everyday about what is in our minds no matter what it is .. She knows how i am feeling because i tell her .. We are 100 % honest with each other and that was another aggrement we had before doing this that no matter what we would be honest with each other.. She knows what i'm going through and she is helping me through it and she was the one that mentioned us stopping until i get straightened out .. I love my wife with all of my heart and soul and know that she is my soulmate, lover,best friend and my entire life wouldn't be worth crap if she wasn't in it .. I thank everyone again for the advice that has been givin and the advice that i will seek in the future .. Thanks everyone ..