Helping wife get past her past trauma

hiya and thanks for the warm welcome.

 

This is the male half, mid 40's, average looks, but female half thinks I'm a stud. LOL. What they say? Love is blind? LOL

 

ok I guess you can tell I'm nervous, normal?

 

I've always been what I considered to be very sexual and passionate, my first wife was a low drive to no drive and it always always felt like I was lacking in love, attention, and starved for sex all the time, move ahead, eventually divorced, met my current wife (online of all places), fell maddly and passionatly toe tickling inlove with her, she's fun, very sexual, passionate, she is always looking for ways to please me and I gobble it up. Gready huh? LOL

 

I've always had this secret desire to try swinging, just the mental thought is so exciting, I kept my secret to myself during my first marraige due to the fact she had no interest in sex or me.

 

The beautiful woman I am married to now is so sexual, sensual, passionate, with a mouth that was just made for my &^%$. She is so sexual and would love nothing more but to never get out of bed. LOL.

 

So considering she is so sexual and loves sex, I told her about my secret desire once while we were dating, and she seemed kind of blasay about it, again considering she is so damn ready at the drop of a pin and now that were officially married, I brought up my secret once more, but more seriously, this time there was nothing blasay with her reaction. She literly became unglued, unhinged, distraught, some pretty serious arguments erupted over my secret, I made a few threats about wanting this, with or without her, (bad thing) but after some time passed, she seemed to be getting more ok with the idea, we began reading whatever we could, we took a few swinger tests (online) we talked about what I wanted, what turned her on, what we could handle, not handle, etc... the more she seemed ok about trying this, the more excited I got at the prospect of sharing this sexual woman.

 

 

 

After some nudging we met several couples, attended a few house parties and a club once, all the above just keeping to ourselves, then after more nudging, we tryed a MMF combo with my wife as the center of attention, everything seemed ok, she was definatly turned on during, the fire inside her was on full tilt, after, her thoughts about the event got the better of her, she began breaking down at work, going to the rest room and crying to the point of having to leave work, we're new to this area and I know she has no one to talk to (female friends she can trust) now sh e feels like she's betrayed me adn our marriage and has informed me that if I still want this, then I have to be ok with what she can offer, which is the bare bones min, no others in a physical form, no touching, etc... all I'm offered is live porn when I want the whole package.

 

I know about my wifes sexual history, she confided in me from the beginning about being raped at 14 by her brothers freind, the 2 male cousins that molested her as a teenager, how she was never unfaithful to her ex husband who was unfaithful. I am her 3rd real sexual partner (not counting the rape)

 

I love my wife and want to swing with erh, what can I do to make her get over her feelings of regret, betrayal and grief over what we have done together, I have told her over n over that I don't see what we have done as any form of betrayal, but I can't get that into her head.

 

I want more then live porn, but I want my wife to be truly ok with what we do and have done.

 

I'll take all the help and sugjestions I can get.

 

thanks,

F

You have to seriuosly consider what is in your wife's best interest here.

 

It would seem to me that your wife's past experience will make it very difficult for her to reconcile her attitudes about sex with swinging. I say don't push her at all. Commit to leaving the idea of swinging as a fantasy. If one day she decides that it is something she feels like she can persue with you then you might think of moving forward again.

Pushing her into this will only cause you big problems.

 

Best of luck to you

 

~Piggy

Seems to me that you are being pretty selfish here. You have openly admitted that you got this far by pushing and prodding and you pushed and prodded until your wife litterally broke.

 

Swinging is not for everyone and from the sounds of it your wife still hasn't dealt with her sexual history.... you are lucky she even enjoys sex with you at this point. More often than not women who have gone through experiences such as your wife have can't deal with sex at all and end up only doing it to please their partner and/or for procreation.

 

Like Miss_Piggy said, you need to think about what's best for your wife here instead of what's best for you. Put that fantasy back on the back-burner and concentrate on your wife. Concentrate on re-enforcing the bond the two of you share and reminding her how important she is to you and how you would never do anything to purposely hurt her. Your pushing and prodding have obviously already hurt her so why would you continue to push and prod and hurt her more?

thanks for the reply, from my point of view she appears to hate the idea and then after some nudging she kind of gives me the impression that she's warming up to the idea. But then when we have talked about why swinging doesn't apeal to her I get blasted with the comments that she was brought up to be a "good girl" and how she has always taken great pride in herself that she was never one of those girls that laid down for just anyone and how she equates having sex as that same as making love and that how she firmly believes that the one without the other makes it meaningless to her.

 

I know she loves me and wants nothing more then to please me and make me happy and I feel she's only partispated in what we have done thus far for just that reason. And to be truthful it did excite me beyond words to have another man pleaseing her with me. She was so hot and excited, so turned on, But in the days that passed after, she was emotionally ruined and totally grief stricken believing that she broke our vows, I just need to find a way for her to get over it and understand that I was there too, and if I don't view our actions as breaking a vow to me then she shouldn't.

 

I want the whole package, and I feel if I can get her to see things my way (that I'm ok with another man pleaeing her / that we're still being faithful to each other) then maybe shell be more ok with giving it another shot.

 

thanks,

F.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Miss_Piggy

You have to seriuosly consider what is in your wife's best interest here.

 

It would seem to me that your wife's past experience will make it very difficult for her to reconcile her attitudes about sex with swinging. I say don't push her at all. Commit to leaving the idea of swinging as a fantasy. If one day she decides that it is something she feels like she can persue with you then you might think of moving forward again.

Pushing her into this will only cause you big problems.

 

Best of luck to you

 

~Piggy

This really isn't the kind of thing you should try to talk her into, especially if she has had traumatic past encounters with unwelcome sexual contact. For her to really enjoy swinging, even if it is with your full blessing, she needs to have the desire to do it herself, otherwise it will not be fulfilling and may even become a trauma that she feels you pushed her into and that would be bad for both of you. You got a good wife the second time around, you should be happy about that and quit while you are ahead.

It sounds to me like swinging is not for her.

 

She proved she loved you enough to try it for you.

 

Sounds like it is now your turn to prove you love her enough to not push her into doing it again.

 

If and when she is ready again she will more than likely bring the issue up to you since she knows how much you enjoy this.

 

We are also fairly new to this but it was a 100% mutual agreement.

 

Just my thoughts. I am no expert.

This is waaaay more than an "itsy" problem here - this is huge! My words are going to convey just how HUGE I believe this is.

 

The fundamental rule for lifestyle activity is that a couple never goes faster than the slowest partner is comfortable about. You have broken that all to heck and gone.

 

I think her attitude when you first shared the news of your interest was probably because she didn't realize how serious you were about pursuing that interest. She may have thought your interest was because of your prior marriage not being satisfactory to you sexually.

 

I think her reaction to you bringing up your "secret" again after your marriage was in great deal based on HURT that you would still desire it despite the excellent sexual relationship the two of you have. In your desire to live out your "secret", you have not listened to her reluctance and lack of agreement. You have only heard the thin threads she may have offered in an attempt to not totally disallow a future possibility. You took that as agreement and ran with it, pushing prodding and nudging all the while. As a result you have, at least for now, robbed her of her very essence - - her self esteem.

 

Yet you still continue to think that if you can just make her believe you that she has not violated your relationship - everything will be fine and you can go full steam ahead.

 

Do you not realize that there is a very big part of her right now that doesn't respect your opinion or believe you, because when she tried going along with that - it resulted in her present condition?????? head bang

 

You have some serious fence-mending to do here. And that means all thoughts and all talk of swinging must stop here and now. You must concentrate on repairing the breach of trust you have created with your lady. You must focus on the relationship the two of you have and how important that is to your happiness. [remember what it was like before??] You may have certain fantasies in your mind - but you'd best put those away for quite some time.

 

Broken trust is a huge problem.

 

There are men on this board who have had unfulfilled fantasies for MANY YEARS, but it has not made them stop considering their wife to be the most important person in their life. They would not consider for a moment pushing as you have and risk destroying the relationship they share. You could be well served by learning from them.

 

If living out your "secret fantasy" is so important to you - - that you feel you MUST pursue it, then do this lady a huge favor and cut her loose before you do irreparable damage to her that cannot be mended by the love of one who puts her first - and above himself.

 

"Itsy" problem, indeed!!

Dito

 

Wrnakedru has once again hit the nail on the head, in my opinion. Perhaps she used a railroad spike and sledge hammer, but it seemed necessary to me.

 

Here's my addition:

 

I'd suggest you memorize the following:

 

"Sweetheart, I am so sorry for the pressure I've put on you about swinging. I had no right to continue pushing you toward something you don't want. If you will forgive me, I will make it up to you. I promise never to ask again."

 

If you cannot do that sincerely and without regret, my prediction is that your marriage is doomed.

 

Mr. Alura

Originally posted by wrnakedru

[b

 

There are men on this board who have had unfulfilled fantasies for MANY YEARS, but it has not made them stop considering their wife to be the most important person in their life. They would not consider for a moment pushing as you have and risk destroying the relationship they share. You could be well served by learning from them.

 

[/b]

 

DITTO to that!

 

Frenchie you need to ask yourself what's more important to you, fulfilling your fantasies or your relationship with your wife. If it's the former, do her a favor and release her now before more damage is done to her mental state. If it's the latter, then you need to learn to live with your fantasies without expecting her to fulfill them.

 

It sounds like you two need to run to a competent counselor....fast!

I'm going to have to Dito Alura's Dito. It appears you're in the position of having to choose one thing or the other: the protection of your marriage, or the realization of your fantasies. I hope you choose wisely.

 

'Nuff said.

Well I'm guessing that perhaps in my excitment I didn't really see what my nudging was doing, this has been something I wanted for a very long time and I really thought since she likes sex that this wuold me a great journy for both of us.

 

Knowing her sexual history and mine, but taking into account that she does enjoy sex, I thought perhaps it wasn't "that" tramatic, or that she had put it behind her.

 

I'm also guessing that in my excitment I didn't stop to think that she really was just going along with everything to make me happy (as she does with everything else)

 

I should state that I never forced her, I simply stated my opinion that this was something I have wanted to explore for a very long time and that there is a difference between sex and making love and that I have no trouble separating the two, even if she does.

 

I've explained my desires and whytp her till I'm blue in the face that having sex would make us more closer and the excitment and fun would only be enhansing the great sex we have, (not replaceing it) It is very difficult now that I've had a taste of my dreams to simply forget they exist.

 

But when I say, ok fine, we'll just forget about it... and I won't check "those" accounts so often, but then a few days or weeks will pass and then she brings it up and gives me hope.

Like the other day, she said that maybe for my b'day we can go back to the club, (she has stated that she did enjoy going) but that IF we go, the same rules apply, she wants us to keep any and all sexual activity to just us. That if anyone wants to watch us, that's fine, but that's it.

 

I want to go back to the club,but is she for real, or only offering this to please me, or just stringing me along.

 

thanks for the replies

F.

If your wife is giving you mixed signals here then it will be difficult for you to decipher what she wants. Maybe she's trying so hard to please you that she doesn't have a clue as to how she really feels about any of it. After what happened to her earlier in life (the rape and molestation), maybe she's very confused herself about what she wants. Can you understand that? I sure can. You know your wife better than anyone. She could be serious about wanting to go to the club and just being into softswing, or she might be testing you to see where your allegiance is at this point. Maybe she wants to know if she's more important to you than going to the club. Can you blame her?

 

Not trying to be tough on you. Just trying to bring out some points to ponder.

 

Good luck to both of you. I sure hope things work out well for you both

Frenchie, sorry to say that you still seem to be very insistant in your desires and fantasies. After reading your response to the advice given on the board you still seem to imply that what you want is more important than your relationship with your wife.

 

Please go back and read the advice Wrnakedru gave above and then reread it, and reread it.

 

I can imagine how your wife feels after hearing your response above. It sounds like you may be putting more pressure on at home than you are relating on the board and use her love and faith in you to get her to do your bidding. How unfortunate!

Originally posted by frenchie

But when I say, ok fine, we'll just forget about it... and I won't check "those" accounts so often, but then a few days or weeks will pass and then she brings it up and gives me hope.

Like the other day, she said that maybe for my b'day we can go back to the club, (she has stated that she did enjoy going) but that IF we go, the same rules apply, she wants us to keep any and all sexual activity to just us. That if anyone wants to watch us, that's fine, but that's it.

 

I want to go back to the club,but is she for real, or only offering this to please me, or just stringing me along.

For me, that last bit borders on being contemptible. From what you've told us about her, the last thing your wife would do is string you along. More likely, with you telling her until you're "blue in the face" how important this is to you, she's *still* trying to do her best to please and satisfy you, even when it's something that makes a wreck of her. You should treasure her, rather than think that she's stringing you along.

 

Take the pressure off her *completely*. Tell her what Alura suggested you say, forget about swinging, and put your relationship back together. And perhaps, in a few years, **she'll** say to you out of the blue and out of genuine desire, "Maybe we could . . . "

Hi Frenchie,

Being a victim of rape myself, I understand some of your wife's fears. The first and most important thing that needs to addressed in this situation is getting your wife the help she needs. Find her a rape crisis center, it is never to late to get the help she needs. And. please don't ever pressure or push her into a sexual activity she does not want...in other words you are could be adding to her fears and anxiety, which I hate to say so bluntly but I don't know another way to say it..is a form of rape. If you love and respect your wife, you will give her the help she needs. Good luck to her and you.

Originally posted by frenchie

Like the other day, she said that maybe for my b'day we can go back to the club, (she has stated that she did enjoy going) but that IF we go, the same rules apply, she wants us to keep any and all sexual activity to just us. That if anyone wants to watch us, that's fine, but that's it.

 

I want to go back to the club,but is she for real, or only offering this to please me, or just stringing me along.

 

thanks for the replies

F.

 

If she's really wants to go back to the club, I see no reason not to. Make love to her and let other people watch. That may be a turn-on for her, too.

 

But if she is only doing it for you, you should not. The most important thing for you to do is to find out how she really feels. Yes, it's important that you talk to her, but it's even more important that you listen to her.

 

Mr. Alura

Hiya and thanks for the many replies,

 

when we went to the club the first time, she knew I wanted to go and see what happens, sort of check it out, as I've never been to one and neither had she. My wife knowing that I really wanted to go, after some talks, she brought up going and actually made the arangements. I was in awww.

 

During the 90 minute drive, half way there shje made a statement that I could have whatever I wanted while we were there but then our marriage was dead in the water and that if I chose to do by bidding that just as soon as we got back home she was calling our marriage quits. Packing, leaving and filing for divorce that Monday.

 

So needless to say if I looked too much at another woman or couple or allowed anything to happen with another person or persons; our life was over. Was it fair of her to take me there with no intentions what so ever of doing anything??

 

I resloved myself there n then that my life with her was most important and we kept to ourselves. We danced, ate, made love together, enjoyed the hot-tub, etc... but that was it, there was a woman at the bar giving a blow-job to a few guys and I really wanted to get a closer look, but the look in my wifes eyes we're deadly. So I watvched from afar. Then another woman got totally nude and danced on the small dance floor, doing a very sexual dance with the brass pole, I didn't utter a sound and tried to watch without making it too noticable, but as soon as the woman began to do her thing, my wife appeard to want to block my view and I felt uncomfortable, it was as if she took us there to tease me, to let me see what fgoes on at a club, but not let me see, as if she was desparate to keep me focused on just her and forget where we were??? That was about 6 months ago.

 

Then she gets upset with me if I check the accounts and has made it clear that I am not to do this unless she's right there. So with our work schedule the accounts don't get ckecked to often, but on Christmas day after our guests left I went to the computer and checked our accounts, she flew off the handle and shouted at me that "why do you have to check those accounts on OUR holiday" and something to the effect of that she can't have a normal day without this invading her life" and got told the same thing when I check the accounts on her b'day.

 

I made a mistake of checking those accounts on her b'day, and an even bigger mistake when I went to the adult store and bought a few porno's for her b'day, she's wasn't upset at my gift, she was upset that I forgot to get her a card. So in my attempt to do some damage control me and my 12 yr old step son decorated the house (inside n out) on that Sunday while she was work, we bought her a card, made a homemade cake, made the dinner, bought her a few gifts (none sexual) it smoothed things over and life was back on track.

 

Then while we were out doing some shopping, we were looking at some digital cameras and she made a comment about the size and how small it was and then a gesture about how it could fit between her breasts and laughingly said how it could be snuck into the club. I felt like; cool, she wants to go back, so I didn't bring it up again, then a few weeks later we were in the Mall and she saw a cute skirt and wanted to stop and check it out, and while we were there I jokingly asked "a clubing skirt?" and her reply was ; Maybe or could be.

 

So once again I left it at that. Then like I said in my post she brings up the subject of going to the club, but with the same rules.

 

Even though I'd like the whole package I've told her many times that I'm happy with what she feels comfortable with, if she doesn't want touching, fine, if she's only comfortable being watched, then ok, I'm not the 'all or nothing' type, and having a little is better then getting none.

 

I feel that even though I try not bring it up, she knows I still want to explore it and is trying to give me what I want while keeping herself and our relationship free from harm.

 

My wife is wonderful, and everything I never knew I deserved in life and do not want to be withot her, but she's the clasic 'over-do-er' always thinking of others before herself. That's what makes her happy, but in her quest to make me happy and give me what I want, it's tearing her apart at the seams. seeing her standing there doing dishes with quiet tears falling down her cheek just to make me happy.

 

In retrospect, Yes I want this, but not at this cost, so do I stay happy with what she's giving me (making me a taker) or tell her I'm no longer interested when she brings the subect up.... (making me a liar)

 

thanks,

F.

 

 

Originally posted by Alura

If she's really wants to go back to the club, I see no reason not to. Make love to her and let other people watch. That may be a turn-on for her, too.

 

But if she is only doing it for you, you should not. The most important thing for you to do is to find out how she really feels. Yes, it's important that you talk to her, but it's even more important that you listen to her.

 

Mr. Alura

Originally posted by frenchie

In retrospect, Yes I want this, but not at this cost, so do I stay happy with what she's giving me (making me a taker) or tell her I'm no longer interested when she brings the subect up.... (making me a liar)

Whoa...you have some serious problems here. I agree with what the others have relayed to you, in paricular, wrnakedru's cut to meat of the matter posting. I'll not repeat what they have said as I ditto them all.

 

However, what you don't seem to be getting is that from your postings, I see a very self-serving individual and 'making you out a liar' does not stem from saying you are no longer interested when she brings the subject up.... It began when you said your relationship was more important than anything else. Quite frankly, if you valued your relationship over and above anything else, you would "NOT" be lying when you relay to her that you are no longer interested as that interest is one that could cost you someone you cherish.

 

My opinion. Do some good hard thinking with the head that is on your shoulders and not the one you zipper up each day.

 

Best of luck to you both Frenchie, I mean that sincerely, as you are going to need it.

 

Mrs. O

Lying is never a good option, F.

 

I'd suggest you do what you should have done from the beginning: Let her lead you into whatever she wants to happen but don't try to guide her in any way.

 

Mr. Alura

I completely agree with the posters here, especially wrnakedru and Mr. Alura. How incredibly selfish of you! All she wants to do is please you and you completely have taken advantage of this. You have physically not forced her to do anything, but by even your mention of it, you are playing mind games with her and you probably don't even realize it. Many women cannot seperate sex and love. Maybe it's something built in. But just because you can, doesn't mean she should or can. In her mind and heart, because she can't seperate the two, she's incredibly hurt by your mere mention of the idea.

Decide what's more important to you. Your wife with whom you have great sex with and is so committed to your happiness that she would agree to something she doesn't believe is right in her heart just to please you, or destroying that completely because of your selfishness.

Just returned to the board after a few days away, wow.

 

To have just read this thread the whole way through for the first time, I feel so sorry for Mrs Frenchie. The members of the board have given some great advice. Please Frenchie take a good look at yourself because you sound so self centred and on such a sensitive subject too. Swinging is most definitely not for everybody, those of us who are males and take part in the lifestyle probably do so as a priviledge because of the understanding nature of our relationship with our SO. We've occasionally come across the self centred male in a club - even giving them a wide birth, they can still have the ability to ruin the night for others.

 

The adage in swinging is "one partner takes the couple into swinging, the other one keeps them swinging". You've tried to take your wife into swinging, but in this case she clearly doesn't want to stay. Therefore you are not destined to be swingers, sorry that's the way it is and you are in the vast majority here. Please accept that, put her first in your relationship. Understand that the only reason she brings up swinging at the moment is because of the pressure you've put on her. Next time she brings it up you need to tell her you've realised it's not a good idea for your relationship and that you should both forget all about it. If one day a long way down the road she starts talking about swinging again, consider yourself very lucky, but make sure you never bring it up again you've sowed the seed (with some serious over seeding) the ball remains in her court now.

 

Also forget the accounts you are not being fair on your wife. If you can't put your wife first in your relationship you shouldn't be married.

I'm not going to be hard on you cos it is very sincere of you to ask for help here. But counseling, preferably couples counseling would help her a great deal. This could be the underlying reason for her participation in this kind of lifestyle.

 

The body has a tendency to store hurts, my friend and the MMF you had might have been a revisit to her past.

 

Trust me on this one, I have been there. I was a groupie in my younger days. It's a long and winding road to recovery....she'll be revisiting these hurts, dealing with them as a grown up and thus healing. Avoiding sex isn't going to make it all go away. But sticking together will help a great deal. You need to swing a little more sensitively for the time being as well.

 

Talk to her!

 

Surrender

 

Slutty Wife

Frenchie, from your postings:

 

YOUR WIFE:

is wonderful and everything you never knew or deserved in life......Is fun, sexual, passionate, and looking for ways to please you.......Believes sex without love is meaningless......Prides herself for not being free and open sexually.....Has had traumatic past experiences such as rape and an unfaithful husband.......Wants to keep your relationship free from harm.

 

YOU:

Have been previously divorced.......Have a step-child......have unfulfilled fantasies and desires concerning swinging.....have explained your desires and why's till you're blue in the face.......Nudged your wife into a MMF combo.......pressured her continually to go to a swingers club until she conceded.....Stated that you will take all the help and suggestions you can get.

 

After nudging your wife, as you expressed, into a MMF combo and then a swingers club your wife said if you continue to do your bidding she would file for divorce. She has since had spells of breaking down into tears.

 

=========================================

 

You have found the best board to obtain direct ,honest, and to the point responses.

 

I cannot express myself nearly as well as the members of the board done so, i'll try to best summarize from their postings:

 

Consider what is in your wife's best interest.....You are being selfish by pushing until your wife breaks......Swinging isn't for everyone.......Take the pressure off her completely.....Leave the idea of swinging as a fantasy......By mentally coercing your wife into a MMF combo and a Swinger club you have robbed her of her very essence, her self esteem.........Don't pressure your wife into a sexual activity, it is a form of RAPE.....You have created a huge problem, named Broken Trusst.......If you can't put your wife first, you shouldn't be married.....Nex time the subject is brought up tell your wife it was a bad idea and then forget about it.......Decide what is most important to you.....You may have already caused unrepairable damage to your marriage.......Seek counseling, couples counseling, and rape counseling......If your wife wants to pursue it in the future consider it a blessing

 

And yes, it is fair of your wife to go to a party without the intention of doing anything. She was considerate enough to concede going just to please you and see if it were something she would consider. She is your wife and partner and you should only agree under those terms . If you've read the boards there is a Golden Rule that states "NO MEANS NO' .

 

What are you doing to your family. You have a loving wife and a child to consider. Everyone in the world has unfulfilled desires. Your wife wants a Soul Mate. Love her, Truly, Madly, Deeply

 

This is the first time we can honestly admit we have read all of the replies on a thread more than a page. From your replies there is absolutely no indication your wife wants to be a part of this lifestyle and every indication that she wants no part of it. Any attempt is her way of trying to please you. Including her going to the clubs and the ground rules that she has set. Even if she brings the subject up on her own it is an attempt for her to give you what you want. Furthermore it seems from your replies you are continuously forcing the subject, either directly or indirectly through your actions. You also make several mentions of "checking the accounts" what does the "accounts" have to do with swinging anyhow? They are two totally unrealted items. Does a falling brick wall has to hit you before you get the message that you are doing no one any favours, including yourself, by continuously forcing the subject with her. From reading your posting and replies it sounds like this is a "tit for a tat" type of approach. Meaning you don't question her actions as long as she participates in swinging. That is absolutely no way of having a loving realtionship.

 

As a couple we do not advocate therapy / counselling as we believe it does no one any good and if the practioner is bad it can do a great deal of emotional damage. The damage done can be far worse than medical malpractice. Good communication, respect for each other, and love for one another does more than a good therapist. Plus it makes a relationship healthy.

 

Take a step back and look at what you are doing to a woman who obviously loves you, for whatever reason. Let the subject die for at least a year before bringing it up again and seriously work on the relationship. Even if she brings up the subject on her own be a man and say to her,"I love you and want to make you happy. In due course we can talk about this subject again. However for the time being lets take some time for ourselves and let me show you how much I love you". There will always be clubs, movies, males interested in being the third in a mfm, and the like. There is only one soulmate and she may not always be there if you continue down the path you have chosen. The best thing is to let her go if all you want is a "ticket" into the lifestyle. Have more respect for her and yourself than what you are showing right now. If not, you will wind up being one miserable loney person with no one else to blame but yourself.soapbox

Ditto to almost 100% of what b smith said.

 

My only exception here is that I do believe that sometimes counseling can help. I totally agree that a bad counselor can do more harm than good. Absolutely. However, in order to have good communication, you have to know what good communication is and how to do it. Hence, the counselor, a good one, can help someone with skewed thinking to "get it" IF the counselee really wants the help.

 

A good counselor can help both people to learn more effective communication techniques such as arguing styles, how to be aware of "emotional landmines" or when to back off; choosing when and where to argue or discuss things; help one or both to know when something is worth discussing at all, or when it might cause more harm than good (as seen here). When to just listen and be supportive, etc. I just believe that good communication is a skill and that it must be learned; some are better at it than others. How can you solve a problem, such as the one discussed here, if one or both parties don't know how to truly hear what the other person is saying?

 

I am not defending the husband here. For what it's worth, the hubby here sounds to me like he's being very selfish in this instance and, based on what he has said here, I question his loyalty to his relationship. Maybe, he just hasn't really thought about her feelings enough yet. I hope that the advice and information given to him here will help him to think through just how important swinging really is and how dedicated he is to his lady. Some of his word choices are rather "unfeeling" if you will. The "stringing me along" comment was pretty harsh. Given the fact that he's posting his responses here, which is good, I would have thought that, after reading some of the information and advice given to him, he'd have done more soul-searching, and that he'd have chosen words that denote a more caring attitude toward her. I understand that he is frustrated and upset because he's not getting what he wants (the swinging), and he seems to be confused as to what she wants, but sometimes we just can't have what we want because it will hurt those we love. Which is more dear to you: the swinging or your love???????

 

Honesty from both is extremely critical. You must decide just how important this issue is to you as a couple and go from there.

 

Again, best of luck to this couple. I hope that they can work this through to a happy conclusion for both. It will take love for each other, caring, consideration, communication, and maybe some sacrifice of one's own desires (meaning his for her) to make this relationship work. It sounds as if his lady wants to please him, but maybe she just can't do it in this way for whatever reason(s). Maybe he needs to please her in this and put her needs above his.

 

Hugs to all;)

A little different view here so the asbestos suits are on to protect from the flames, lol...

 

First off we don’t see this as a one way street as most of the posters have, i.e....all the husbands fault.

 

Yes, we agree that he seems to be extremely pushy in one respect (especially in view of his wife’s history) but the wife is definitely very wishy-washy as well. It is obvious that she has a major problem with swinging and it is something that she probably will never be able to come to terms with. However, in the same respect she is not really being fair to her husband by not making this absolutely clear.

 

You do not hang a steak in front of a hungry dog then snatch it away...the following statement he made was so wrong on her part...

 

when we went to the club the first time, she knew I wanted to go and see what happens, sort of check it out, as I've never been to one and neither had she. My wife knowing that I really wanted to go, after some talks, she brought up going and actually made the arangements. I was in awww.

 

During the 90 minute drive, half way there shje made a statement that I could have whatever I wanted while we were there but then our marriage was dead in the water and that if I chose to do by bidding that just as soon as we got back home she was calling our marriage quits. Packing, leaving and filing for divorce that Monday.

 

They both need to make some major decisions here. He needs to decide if this is something that he absolutely has to have and if so he’s going to have to get out of the present relationship as we don’t feel it’s going to happen. If his love for his wife is greater than his need to swing he needs to totally drop the subject, never bring it up again and tell her it’s closed and he doesn’t even want her to mention it again.

 

She needs to stop teasing him and giving him ultimatums, if she doesn’t want to swing say so and stop going back and forth on the subject. Offering him something that he wants then putting limits on it is not the way to go. She needs to tell him I’ve tried, I can’t and I’m not going to ever again so don’t ever expect it to happen and don’t bring it up again, ever. She needs to stop titillating him by making offers she is not intending to go through with whole heartedly.

 

Our advice to frenchie is drop the subject totally and if she brings it back up tell her No, your not interested in going to a club or doing anything if she is going to act the same way she has in the past with ultimatums and being upset afterwards. It’s not good for her or you in the long run.

 

TNT

Originally posted by TNT

A little different view here so the asbestos suits are on to protect from the flames, lol...

 

First off we don’t see this as a one way street as most of the posters have, i.e....all the husbands fault.

 

 

TNT

 

Say, TNT...excellent points and thanks for bringing them up.

 

You know, I had thought many of the same things as I read this thread but was hesitant to comment as a single person...just seemed to me as if the wife was sending serious mixed messages. Now of course, we've only heard his side of the story and a couple of things come to mind...1) he's added more 'negative' types of details as things have gone along, and 2) we've all been in on that situation where, after hearing both sides, our thoughts and opinions change dramatically. But, simply based on what he has said it seems that she is guilty of leading this guy on to some extent.

 

Counseling has been recommended by several others and if these facts, as presented, are accurate, I can't think of any activity that would benefit this couple more than that, and especially just now. As for the rape issue...if indeed that is the case, then the Mrs. really needs to come to terms with that issue for the sake of her marriage, but more importantly, for the sake of herself. Life must be miserable for any woman who has gone through that experience but hasn't resolved her feelings and emotions about it.

 

Regardless of who is at fault or the various sides of the story, it seems to me that this couple needs to avoid swinging like the plague - at least until all of these issues are resolved. And from that standpoint, frenchie needs to put the idea of swinging to bed for the time being and focus on what seems to be serious problems in his relationship with his wife - whether these are his problems, her problems, or their problems. Isn't that what marriage is all about? Making things better for your spouse?

 

Just my thoughts - and yep! I'm wearing my asbestos suit, too. This might prove to be lethal!

 

- EBF

Okay, I'm going to jump in and take a risk here with my 2c:

 

First, as a survivor of rape, incest, and child molestation, it is very difficult to know what we truly want sexually! Somehow, the experience makes us shut down in varying ways, not the least of which is emotionally and sexually...if this seems confusing, let me say it is confusing as hell to be looking at one's sexuality from the inside out when you've been treated as an 'object'. Cognitively, we 'know' that isn't right....but then one gets to a certain age, the hormones kick in, and there's a huge instinct that surfaces that allows the return of sexual desire.

The Catch-22 is: the emotional conflict from the rape and abuse hasn't been resolved!!!

 

One solution for women in our situation is to turn to other women for a less scary more nurturing kind of emotional and sexual relationship. Many many women who survive rape and sexual assault at a young age find peace in this direction. [[ Please note I am not judging here, just reporting what I've witnessed in Recovery Group Therapy]]

Another solution is that these women try to live as normal a life as possible with a strong commitment to fidelity in marriage and a willingness to be open, honest, and vulnerable again --But only in the context of the marriage!! Many of us find peace in the blending of marriage, sexuality, and the control aspects of sex with just one man, always.

---> the point I want to bring up here is the fact that we don't deny our sexuality, it's just that our conditioning with sexual experiences was screwed up. It leaves us very little options unless we decide to heal in whatever way works.

Mr. Frenchie doesn't think Mrs. Frenchie is 'bad' or 'sexually wanton' by having a successful 3way....the real point here is Mrs. Frenchies' feelings afterwards...not to mention she may feel like she agreed (and maybe very honestly enjoyed the activity at the time) -- but nobody teaches survivors of abuse how to deal with the feelings afterwards!!! You can't talk us out of how we feel; it's just there. Emotions aren't logical....but Mrs. Frenchies' reactions and feelings make sense in her personal context and that's what really matters here.

 

I happen to agree with the majority of the posters:

Mr. Frenchie, get your priorities straight and decide if you want a wonderful marriage and a sane happy wife,

or

divorce her so she can find a man who really loves her.

 

Yes, you owe her an apology and you owe her your support to feel whatever she feels, as is her right.

 

She wasn't jerking you around at the club or otherwise-- she was trying hard to find out several things at once: what your attraction is for club action, what the action is, and deal with her feelings at the same time.

--- a big assignment, don't you think?

And for chrissakes, gimme a break; we aren't perfect. I might try something new if my lover seemed very turned on by it: but I also trust my lover to protect and cherish me. I trust him to value my feelings as he values his -- or more. I also know he can read my reactions....if I am inwardly shocked to see a woman giving multiple blowjobs-- imagine how I might feel to see my lover obviously attracted to the activity...she might well be thinking: 'does he want me to do this?' --

I agree with all who say drop the subject completely. Don't even mention it when she's looking at clothes, or toilet brushes. Drop it if you value your wife.

From the sound of it, she's a courageous lady trying hard to forget a huge trauma and be a good partner to you. From what you've said, she is anxious to please you. What more do you want, eggs in your beer?!?!

Many thanks to all who took the time to post replies and a very big thanks to TNT and BI who seemed to see how I feel during this on again off again attitude from my wife.

 

About 8 months ago during a argument I actually packed and left, she was crying and holding our marriage paper and weeping that she wanted "this" to mean something, I told her as-matter-of-factly that "why should I have to pay for the ass holes that hurt you?, I've wanted this for along time and I'm going to have, with you or without you" and then I left. Now I did come back a few hours later, I decided that I wasn't being fair, I figured I'd put all my swinging dreams in the back of my mind and leave it there, but every now and then the subject comes up.

 

To be perfectly honest, this is something I've always wanted to try, (she knows this- as I've told her many times), considering she loves sex, I thought "FINALLY" someone I could share this with.

 

Is it my fault that she's had a few bad experinces?? Should I continue to pay for the ones who hurt her in the past?? I don't think so, I'm not them, I have no trouble separating sex from love, (not that I want to have sex with another woman) but if it were something my wife wanted to see or have happen ; hell I'm not going to say no.

 

It's like the MFM we did, she was so excited during the event (or at least she appeared to be) it was the after, after things settled down, she was always in tears, thinkings somehow she violated our vows, I tried to comfort her, I told her that I love her, that nothing, none of my feelings for her had changed. And that was some months ago.

 

It's like nothing I do works or is good enough for her, when we first got together things were very new & exciting, we used to make love almost every night and send each other greetings and leave each other little love notes in our vehicals, but in every relationship things slow down, we don't make love every night, probably 3 times a week, and with us both working (and the little side projects I do for our home- ex. fixing up our vehicals, build a new desk, re-finish the coffee table, etc.) I don't have as much time as I used to to send her greetings or leave a love note in her car. But all she does is complain how I don't do these things all the time, she doesn't understand that I'm busy doing other things now, other things that also show my love. and like I've told her "there's only so much I can do before you get bord with them". Just because she can still find the time to work, keep house, raise kids, plus leave me notes, greetings etc. that doesn't mean I can. I'm not "Superman"

 

Guess I've strolled off course.

F.

F.

Ahhh...now frenchie...this recent post has had the effect (on me) of making you out to be a total jerk. Are you? I mean...now come on...

 

Is it my fault that she's had a few bad experinces?? Should I continue to pay for the ones who hurt her in the past?? I don't think so, I'm not them, I have no trouble separating sex from love, (not that I want to have sex with another woman) but if it were something my wife wanted to see or have happen ; hell I'm not going to say no.

 

No, it's not your fault she had a "few bad experiences" (and I believe I'd use a word other than "bad" to describe a rape), but sorry, buddy...yeah...she's your WIFE and you do have a great deal of responsibility in terms of providing support and understanding. In any relationship, we take 'em as we get 'em and you got her knowing full well what the circumstances were and are. And what is this thing about "not that I want to have sex with another woman?" Your wife obviously doesn't want to participate at this time, so what is the purpose other than you having sex with another woman?

 

And this...

About 8 months ago during a argument I actually packed and left, she was crying and holding our marriage paper and weeping that she wanted "this" to mean something, I told her as-matter-of-factly that "why should I have to pay for the ass holes that hurt you?, I've wanted this for along time and I'm going to have, with you or without you" and then I left.

 

You don't want to have sex with another woman...yet you pack a bag and leave her standing in the door crying? "I've wanted this for along time and I'm going to have, with you or without you" and then I left." That in and of itself is a total contradiction to much of what you've said.

 

She may be sending you mixed messages/signals, but this post certainly sounds as if you are guilty of the same. Sounds to me this relationship is replete with mixed messages. Not the makings of a sound relationship, IMO.

 

Every single person that has posted has said something to the effect that you need to take swinging out of the equation in your relationship...if not permanently, at least for the time being. I'm no exception. I agreed with counseling for your wife, initially...now I'm thinking you need the counseling as badly as she does. Maybe more so, given your propensity for selfishness and self-centeredness.

 

Finally...you concluded with the bit about being too busy...and it is just delightful to see that refinishing a coffee table takes precedence over providing thoughtful gestures to the one you profess to love in a relationship. (and people wonder why I'm single?!?) Aren't you lucky that you married superwoman since you can't even find the time to leave a simple note or card. Lucky woman she is.

 

I said it before. Put swinging on the back burner and focus on your relationship with your wife. Nothing wrong with the desire to swing as long as it doesn't inflict emotional pain on the one you profess to love, but when it gets to the point that pain is there - shut the door on the entire idea. Or...get a divorce. Simple as that.

 

- EBF

Frenchie,

 

Well, you're finally relating a little more than you had previously and just from your other posts almost 100 % had considered you should take steps to reconcile the problems you created with your wife. Now, with this last reply you seem completely out of line and give more information as to how you are completely obsessed with your fantasies. What else has not been said in your postings.

 

I wish we could here your wife's version of this. I sympathized with her before but know I understand even more what she must be going through. It doesn't sound at all like she has been leading you on or tempting you and then refusing. It's more like you have such a strong obsession in you that it is the only thing in life that matters and you are so forceful you give her no room to breath. Aren't your prioities more than a little screwed up. You're putting your wife through hell.

 

And what happened to your attitude that you would take any advice given to you? At first you said she was loving , sexy, passionate and everything you desired in life . Now you are revealing your true personality.

 

I can only pray that your wife survives this ordeal.

Frenchie,

 

I just would like you ask you a one question.

 

Has there been any violence involved in your relations now or in the past? It seems with your obsession and forceful manner that it might push you to extremes. I pray not.

 

I would hope you at least try to staighten out your life as it sounds like you are ruining other lives in the process.

Frenchie - I really hope you are just having your own bit of fun with the board playing your version of "Devils advocate".

When I say thanks for the replies I do mean it, and I am taking everyones thoughts, comments and sugjestions to heart.

 

I do love my wife more then the need to swing, but that need is still there, aching to be lived out.

 

Having read so many posts on the "How To" perswade one half of the couple to give this a try, I honestly hoped there would be some great advise on how to help my wife ease into this, to help her get over her feelings that doing this together is nothing to feel guilty about.

 

She is an incredible woman and I love her, but yet having seen and experienced a little bit with her, who wouldn't want to experience more, especially knowing how sexual she is with me and of course wittnessing the MFM.

 

Most of the replies are saying to leave it alone, to not encourage it when she brings it up, that not everybody is cut out for this, and I guess most replies are true, that perhaps I have put alot of stress on her causeing her to give in. Even with the things I didn't know I was doing was pressuring her.

 

While yes I still do desire my fantacies, and have had alot of come to life already, and should we ever do anything again it has to be her choice, her wants, not just to please me. I do think that's where I've been most confused. Confused by my wants and getting them at any cost where I've allowed her to put my own needs above her own and not giving back as much as I've been taking.

I've been very gready and I need to redirect my life away from swinging and concentrate more on my wife.

 

I want to close this post with thanking you all and I sincerely hope in my frustration I didn't appear to harsh on my wife. I've been so confused lately and it's helped alot to have the different opinions to help give me the clarity I needed, or the swift kick in the @ss to wake me up to the mess I created and what's most important to me. My wife.

 

F.

Your presentation of this as an 'itsy' problem during the introduction you gave has set me to wondering.

 

Did you perhaps think, that since this is a board for the purpose of [primarily] swinging related issues, that if you presented your "itsy" problem - what you were going to receive back from the members of the board was a unilateral agreement as to 'poor little you'? Was your self admitted seeking of advice only seeking that advice that would, in essence, bring your wife around to your point of view? Are you not hearing or simply rejecting out of hand any advice that does not support your efforts?

 

Your responses throughout the thread have seemed to indicate little else than a rejection on your part. You have presented ongoing, continual, and escalating examples of what you seem to feel are those that validate your point of view. These additional pieces of information have proved instead to alienate those who may have had some sense of empathy for your position.

 

So I am wondering - exactly what do you want to have happen? Not just here on the message board as a response to your words but in your relationship with your wife and in your life? What do you want it to be ? If continuing in the marriage only appeals to you if your wife can somehow magically come around to your point of view, without any baggage that interfers with her being your idea of a perfect mate - - - then you need to pack up and get out now. Because she can only be who she is - and all that she is. If that is 'inconvenient' to the point of being too much for you to deal with, so be it.

 

And perhaps you can only be who you are - - and all that you are. And if that definition has become so highly contingent upon your involvement or active participation in the lifestyle, your present life situation is obviously not the ideal one for you and it certainly is not ideal for swinging.

 

Don't drag this out by trying to make her something she cannot be, or by you trying to be something you have no desire to be. Do the right thing for both of you and put a stop to the pain now.

 

Life isn't all about having your cake and eating it too. Life is about recognizing what is important to you and making the decisions that support that.

 

Be a grown up here. Make your choice, make your decision, and then live it.

 

Don't sit in your corner banging your spoon against your plate, crying "it's not fair."

 

In the final analysis, we are all where we CHOOSE to be. Make your choice.

Frenchie -

 

My last post was obviously being written at the same time as the one just written by you.

 

I stand by the validity of my words.

 

I am glad to see the necessity of making a choice had finally gotten through to you.

 

I hope that the life lived from this point forward will support the choice.

 

wrnakedru

Hi, this Amy.

I am so angry after reading this that I have to comment. Frenchy, the only advice you're looking for is advice on how to make your wife do what you want. You have no real interest in anything anyone is trying to tell you. Did you think that if you came to ask swingers for advice that they would automatically think that your wife should go along with what you want? Not only that but they would offer you advice on how to get her to swing with you?

 

I can hardly believe you are so selfish. Every single person here is trying to tell you that you are hurting her buy treating her this way. If my hubby had ever shown such a complete lack of regard for my feelings as you obviously have for your wife's I would be as upset as your wife too! It's not swinging thats upsetting your wife, its you! So your sex life isnt as good as it was a while ago and you wonder why, even blaming her for it? Well take a look in the mirror.

Originally posted by frenchie

When I say thanks for the replies I do mean it, and I am taking everyones thoughts, comments and sugjestions to heart.

 

I do love my wife more then the need to swing, but that need is still there, aching to be lived out.

 

Having read so many posts on the "How To" perswade one half of the couple to give this a try, I honestly hoped there would be some great advise on how to help my wife ease into this, to help her get over her feelings that doing this together is nothing to feel guilty about.

This shall be my last posting on this topic.

 

Frenchie,

 

You have so contradicted yourself throughout your postings that I have a hard time even believing that this is an actual event occuring in your earthly life. If on happen-chance that it is, I'll give you the benefit of my ever-increasing doubt.

 

I challenge you to find one single posting by a regular member of this board that talks of how to "perswade" their partner into swinging. Many have asked how to introduce the idea, not persuade them. On the flip side, we have had several posts regarding their partners trying to coerce them into swinging and they came here to learn more about it, in effort to please the other half. End result, most decided it was not for them, for whatever reason. Which is cool. Swinging is not for everyone, in fact it is only for a small percentage.

 

Consider yourself fortunate, Frenchie, for living out your fantasy once, consider yourself less than fortunate for ultimately losing your wife over your selfish desires.

 

I do + I do = WE DO

 

I do + You won't = I

 

Do the math...

I think Mr. & Mrs. Naughty said it perfectly...

 

 

she tried it cause she loves you and it obviously wasn't for her

 

now stop pushing (and that includes passive aggressive tactics)cause you love her

 

 

b

Frenchie,

I may take a little flame for this, but I'm going to sympathize with you on this, a little bit.

A woman who respects the feelings of her man does not play games with him. She doesn't go out of her way to place challenges in his path, just to test his reactions. She doesn't bait a hook so that she can enjoy blasting him for taking the bait. When she makes sacrifices, she makes them for the good of BOTH of them. She doesn't set herself up to be hurt, so that she can wear the badge of martyr. She should have given you a flat out, straight forward, no quibbling , "NO". Her weakness of character caused both of you a lot of pain. Take the cliche, a woman asks her man if this outfit makes her look fat. If the man says no, she calls him a liar cause she can see it for herself. If he says "Baby, you look fabulous to me no matter what", then she says he tried to dodge the question which means he thinks she's fat. He can't win.

 

 

However...

 

My impression from your posts it that you have given her the impression that you want to swing for your own pleasure, to cut a slice with someone other than her, to cheat with her knowledge, in front of her. You say you're a bit of a handyman. Suppose she hired an electrition to change the batteries in the smoke detectors, because "SHE WANTS IT THAT WAY".

When you two are watching a movie, and a spicy scene comes on, does she think that you are wishing you were there with the characters on screen, or does she think that it will fuel the fire you have for her? Do you reach over and cop a feel and start whispering naughty suggestions in her ear about how hot you are for her, or do you start commenting on how hot the girl on the screen is? The common thread from posts of the active lifestylers on this board is that it is all about their mutual giving of mutual pleasure to each other. When is is for one partner's pleasure only, it falls like a house built on sand. If you really want her to try again, you will have to show her that it is her pleasure and your mutual pleasure that you want to enhance. If she has the slightest nagging feeling that is just to 'get your rocks off', she will be resistant, hurt, resentful, angry, etc.

 

 

My advice is for BOTH of you to read, TOGETHER, "the care and feeding of husbands". The main theme is that the woman is the boss, because that is the way biology made us, period. As the boss, she has obilgations as to how she takes care of her man, which DIRECTLY results in how he takes care of her (cause and effect, positive feedback loops, etc.). Women have an awsome power over men, and should use it to the advantage of the marriage, in a responsible manner. Men need this from their women. That's why men marry women, and not other men.

 

The subtle theme of the book is what kind of man he should be to deserve the effort. Hopefully you will find it.

Frenchie, I've read and re-read your original post and all the replies you've gotten including my earlier one. Some of us have chastised you for pushing your wife and one or two have seemed to side with you on the issue. From reading your posts and theirs it has reinforced my feeling that maybe you and your wife should get some counseling, not just to work through this immediate issue, but to get a clearer understanding of each other. A really good counselor can do that and help you two to become closer and more aware of the driving forces behind your and your spouse's behavior. I recommend that you spend a few sessions with a counselor and see how it goes. Again, not only to talk about this issue, but many others you may have. You obviously love your wife deeply and she may not understand how deep those feelings are and also why you may want to share her with others in a sexual way. Yes, part of swinging would be for your pleasure but I'll bet a lot of it has to do with you being turned on by the thoughts of her being pleasured. Just my thoughts again.

I am one of those wives whose husband "really wanted" to become a swinger. I thought that you might be interested in my point of view. As I am now in counseling, I have discovered that I am a "pleaser". I like to please people, it makes them happy, it makes me happy making them happy, and on and on and on. I think you get the picture. The emotions that I had were overwhelming, and I should have had the strength to tell him an outright NO....I am NOT interested, this isn't something that we should be doing. It wasn't that I was leading him on, or anything like that, I just wanted to give him what he said he wanted that would make him happy, and darned near destroyed myself in the bargain. Our marriage nearly came to an end over this, and some of the things we said to one another in anger will echo endlessly. I have to struggle to try to keep a balance in my life, knowing that this is still something that he wants to do, and knowing that at this point, this is something that I cannot do.

 

Maybe you should really step back, try not to make any harsh judgments, as both you and she have obviously had some heated exchanges, and consider where you are, as opposed to where it is that you thought, or hoped to be. Doesn't sound like you are anywhere near that. Some professional assistance might be what is wanted and needed to give you both the tools to help rebuild, or restructure your relationship.

You may have irreversably done damage to your marriage, and I urge you to consider counseling both for you, your wife, and your marriage.

By the way...the counselor that I am seeing is also a sex therapist (lucky me, I guess). So far, she is hesitant to endorse the "hobby", for those who were wondering.

Tarnished Halo

NO....I am NOT interested, this isn't something that we should be doing. It wasn't that I was leading him on, or anything like that, I just wanted to give him what he said he wanted that would make him happy, and darned near destroyed myself in the bargain. Our marriage nearly came to an end over this,

 

I have always been curious about the people that post here that are so dead set against the lifestyle. Why are you here?

 

Do you check this board out of morbid curiosity? Or are you afraid to admit that you are attracted to the lifestyle?

 

By the way...the counselor that I am seeing is also a sex therapist (lucky me, I guess). So far, she is hesitant to endorse the "hobby", for those who were wondering.

 

I don't understand the need for this comment. Not sure who you are trying to convince here.

 

I agree with the advice you have given, if the marriage is to be saved, he definitely needs to re-evaluate his priorities.

 

It just baffles me that you would frequent a swingers message board unless you were looking for converts.

 

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Tarnished Halo. Your last posting gives insight that many cannot give as they haven't been on both sides of the coin. What an excellent posting, and much food for thought.

Originally posted by SoCal-JnL

I have always been curious about the people that post here that are so dead set against the lifestyle. Why are you here?

Everyone is welcome to post here. Tarnished Halo has offered some very interesting insight on many occasions and I do hope that she continues to post in the areas of interest to her and/or any questions she has in the future. This is an informational board, the primary focus is swinging, and this includes those that are active, used to be active, seeking information, thinking about it, or opposed to it. As long as all are cordial to those that post... they are all welcome.

 

I know that I have learned a bundle from each and every one of all of them.

 

Mrs. O

I applaud Tarnished Halo for sharing her insights. To the person(s) who feel she should not necessarily add her two cents worth, please try and understand that swinging for many is not an easy decision to make. My husband and I are still in the talking stage and we may never get beyond it and that's okay. Tarnished Halo is a lady who has been in a similar situation to Frenchie's lady and has something to add..........something for us all to think about. Obviously, Tarnished Halo has had some differing feelings about the lifestyle, as many of us may and/or do. What's wrong with voicing them so long as it's not considered "bashing" which is not needed on any message boards anywhere. I do not see her saying anything against anyone at all pr against the swinging. She's being honest and forthright with her feelings and I, for one, appreciate reading her comments. Again, there's alot to think about in a relationship. Major changes, and for many of us swinging is a major change, deserve to be thought about, discussed and otherwise researched before humping, I mean jumping, right in:)

 

Personally, I think all of the information on this thread has been very thought provoking. Remember that just because you feel something one way doesn't mean that's the way everyone else feels it. You can't really put yourself into someone else's shoes, but you can sure try to "hear" what they're saying and try to respect it............as long as they aren't trying to cause harm.

 

Hugs to you all;)

I never said anything about her not adding to the conversation, I agreed with much of her post.

My question was as to why a person so against this lifestyle would hang out here, monitoring threads and watching this lifestyle unfold before their eyes. If this had nearly ruined my marriage and had caused me great personal pain, the last thing I would be doing would be hanging out here, having it dangled in front of me.

 

Its like rubbing salt into a wound.

 

Of course people are welcome to post their feelings and thoughts, I never disagreed.

SoCal-Jnl

 

Perhaps a wife or SO uses the board, the information and responses, to better understand themselves or their spouse's

interest in the subject. It may help resolve family problems.

 

Remember, swinging is far from being an accepted mainstream activity. Society, religion, family, STD's , moral beliefs , etc. , etc.

 

Also, there is much more on the board than swinging. People may learn much here about personal relationships and how to deal with them. Others may just be voyiers who are on the board just as you may have in a club.

 

Someone who is not a swinger may also have thoughts and insights to help others that are on the fringes and cannot resolve the conflicts within themselves. Just as this particular thread has revealed.

 

There are probably a number of non-swingers on the board that have contributed valuable insights . You cannot just be tunnelvisioned in any aspect of life . Listen to anyone that has something valuable to say.

Originally posted by SoCal-JnL

...

My question was as to why a person so against this lifestyle would hang out here, monitoring threads and watching this lifestyle unfold before their eyes. ...

To learn about someone she loves, if I may be so presumptious as to assume I know her mind. If I was in her shoes, I'd do the same.

 

-B

here is my take on this for what it is worth...

 

It would seem that your wife has indulged you (to a point) and as a result it has triggered some things in her that quite possibly would have been better left buried where they were until sometime that it was "ready' to come out on their own. As it would seem this box has been opened and like the proverbial genie...it ain't gonna go back in. Now, you may be receiving mixed messages and you may truly desire this adventure and your wife is willing, reservedly I might add, to go along with you - under restrained duress. No relationship is worth the sacrifice of someone else's comfort - period. She is seemingly confused about how she should feel because of her life experiences and upbringing. She is perfectly content to give you what you want at home without someone else's participation - hell, by many standards, you are already way ahead of the game. She has told you that if the two of you go to a club it is play between the two of you and no one else...she is not interested in playing with anyone else...not really...despite what momentary feelings she may have experienced. You have said that she experienced what can only be seen as remorse - it made her depressive and sick. Leave it alone, try to create more magic at home and be happy with that. If and when, if ever the time comes that she "TRULY," chooses to do this, it must be wholely her decision - virtually free of any influence on your part. This may just have to remain what it is - a fantasy.

 

Good luck...