How to get a husband who wants to swing to stop trying to convince the wife?

ok I see all over the place how men are asking, How do I get my wife "into" this, or how to "talk" her into this, Or how anyway you want to slice it, otherwise get her to do something she apparently doesn't want to begin with......

So here is my question

How do you get a husband who is obsessed with this lifestyle to give it up, to drop the crap and live a normal life?

How do you "talk" him into accepting that his wife wants only him? And that it's normal to want only your wife? That in some marriages or relationships, one person has a right to a faithful marriage, cause I am sorry and don't want to offend anyone,

but the moment you touch another person you ARE taking something away from your mate, time and touches otherwise that could and should be spent with your mate, and it doesn't much matter whether your mate is in the room, any touch that is spent on another is taking away from the one that has the right to be the one being touched.

If some of these men would consider the fall out before sugjesting and then pushing it with double talk, exp; I don't want another woman, but the thought of someone different is exciting, then to me, he's really saying that I don't excite him and that he does want the other woman,

So why don't some of the wifes that have been forced , manulipated or whatever stand up and say hell no, I would really like to know how many swinging wives are doing this to keep their husbands happy at their own expence. and why can't the men accept the wife's decision to have a normal marriage, why do they have to push and behave so badly when told no? cause to me the moment you step away from your SO you step away period.

As soon as we suspect that the couple we have met belongs in the catagory you describe WE LEAVE. We refuse to be part of any situation that isn't entered into freely by all parties.

We agree with the previous post. If both don't agree: We're out of there. We also won't play with a couple that doesn't appear to really like each other. If they seem to be into this just to be with someone other than their SO, we leave. You can tell fairly easily when they are the type you are speaking of. As for us: We just enjoy sex, and have a great sex life even when others aren't involved. We enjoy each other more than others though, and if either one of us isn't interested in both people, or either of us says "no" to something, for ANY reason....then that's it. There's no debate and no disappointment that we didn't get to do something with another person. Don't know how else to explain it except that it's still an "us" thing even when others are there.

Actually, we consider ourselves to be 'normal'. Generally we find the women to be as avid as the men or moreso. In the interest of not saying less than tactful, I'll leave it at that.

Swinging is something both partners should be content with. If one doesn't feel it's right for them then there should be no debate. How can one enjoy it if the other doesn't.

My husband and I enjoy it because it helps fulfill each others fantasies. It's an "extension" of our already healthy lust for each other. I know my husband wants to be with other women, but not because he wants someone better but because he wants more. It turns me on to fulfill this for him as it turns him on that he'd do the same for me. I don't feel that anything is being taken away from me but rather given to me. On the other hand if one feels that something is being taken away then it is and you shouldn't be doing it.

Maybe you should sit down and discuss why he may be so persistent on the subject and won't take no for an answer. Have you shared your true feelings with him? Were you firm with your answers? Perhaps ask for sexy alternatives. He needs to get the idea that enough is enough on that subject and it might affect the direction in which your marriage may go.

Swinging or no swinging marriage has to be a partnership all the way and one partner shouldn't have to do something they feel so strongly about just to make the other happy. The other should respect feelings and know where to draw the line.

think about it.. we have food, sex, intellect. Otherwise we work and live up to our responsibilities. The only other options we have, really, are food, sex, our brains...to expand and/or indulge ourselves.

I remember talking with a long time swinger couple we know, but have never played with, because we've become more 'family' than friends. I told them of one afternoon of sex with my husband and how mind blowing it was. And the husband told me 'so you've had the kind of sex my wife and I have'. They have been married for 14 years and have 4 children.

The emotional bonds that create an intimacy that is special only to the 2 in a good couple can never be equalled by recreational sex.

That's why, as someone else so articulately posted, there are rules.

To protect our relationships and alert us to perhaps not so stable couples.

When we've met couples that we had doubts about their solidity... we walk...away... and fast.

We have one bottom line never to be crossed rule in swinging.. that we are doing no harm to anyone else by participating...this means no cheaters, no troubled couples, no people just dating to get laid or swing as a single. Dating to swing (perhaps this is already on another thread and I apologize if it is....) is not swinging IMHO. I know people do it... I know _I_ did it but I didn't call myself a 'swinger'.. other people did.

A couple's primary relationship is of pre eminent importance and always to be respected. Normal is a morality imposed by I don't know who? But we all make choices always taking care for our significant others first and foremost and secondly those we bring into our social life.. sexual or otherwise.

Those are swingers

I understand, I think, what you are saying, but first, please remember that what you consider to be "crap" and wanting to "live a normal life" is different for different folks. You may enjoy eating liver and I think it is repulsive and "not normal." But somehow, lots of places sell liver and onions. Those of us that enjoy multiple partners and swinging are living our "normal life."

That choice of words...demeaning my choice of lifestyle...immediately conjures up a defensive mode.

I really don't mean to be rude in tone - sincerely - and I know I don't know all the conversations that may have taken place between the two of you, but if you have approached him with the type attitude you came across with in this post, implying or stating that his ideas and/or fantasies are "abnormal," that might be one of the major problems in trying to get him to see things the way you would like for him to see them...your way. Your values. Your standards.

You feel that touching, time spent with others, etc., is taking something away from you. You are certainly entitled to think and feel that way, but many of us don't. Do you feel that way when he goes to a ballgame with other guys? Plays golf with other guys? Maybe dances with the female half of the couple you've gone to dinner with as you dance with the male half? But you see, that is the way some of us think of swinging. It is physical pleasure only...feeling good. It doesn't involve the same emotional bonds and commitments of the relationship with ones spouse or SO.

There may be wives and SO's that have stood up and said hell no. Most likely, they don't post here.

Now that being said, one of the primary gains from swinging, or even considering the idea of swinging, is a great sense of trust and communication that can come from the discussions leading up to (and following in some cases) the suggestion of swinging. There are some people on this board that would be quick to tell you there wife is against it, but still, their ability to communicate and trust each other was enhanced by the discussions.

You seem to be having significant problems, maybe feeling that the idea is being forced on you, and I can certainly appreciate that feeling. I would think that the first step for the two of you would be to recognize some possible communication deficits and work on that. If you learn to appreciate and respect each others opinions, you will have gained immensely whether you ever swing or not. And that is what swinging is really about.

I hate to disappoint you, but I doubt that you will ever convince him to give up the desire. If it hasn't already happend, then he probably never will. I have always had a rule, the person with the most restrictive rules is in charge. If my wife didn't want to swing we wouldn't. She tells me I can go by myself, and I won't do it. It is either us together or we stay home. Now we will occasionally "play" seperatly, but that is never the intention it just happens, with mutual consent.

People rarely change. If your goal is to change someone you are going to beat your head against a stone wall with more sucess. Not all people are compatable and you have to accept that and make a decision of what you can live with.

Well Hello...

I never meant to offend anyone and sorry if my moral standards are just a bit high, but they are and personally I'm so sick and tired of defending the way I CHOOSE to live to a man that has no compassion for my feelings of what is right or wrong, he keeps telling me there is NO HARM, where I see the harm, he wants it, I DO NOT. I offer him what I think and believe I feel is safe and he gladly takes what I can offer, but it's the knowing that he wants more and would at any given chance if I said ok, he's throw me to another man just to GET HIS WIFE.

The talks that turn in days of arguing is killing this marriage cause he will not see my side and that for our marriage I just may know what will hurt or enhance it. AND fucking someone else for the FUN and THRILL of it is disgusting to me and makes me want to vomit, he knows how I feel and continually tells me with double talk that he is ok with my level but still see's no harm in the other stuff where I do.

thanks for listening.

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Originally posted by ricndi032903

........personally I'm so sick and tired of defending the way I CHOOSE to live to a man that has no compassion for my feelings

This is the crux of the matter........

If you have to DEFEND yourself inside your marriage and to a man who has NO COMPASSION for your feelings then your marriage is in serious trouble and in need of counseling.

I wish you the best of luck.

ricndi032903,

There is no need to apologise for your moral stance, that is a personal choice that everyone is entitled to make. Swinging isn't for everyone and knowing how you feel it is not something that we would recommend to you. One caveat that we have between us is that either of us can stop either a situation or stop both of us from swinging permanently by just saying so, with NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

Explain your stance to your husband one more time. If he doesn't accept it on face value see either a counselor or an attorney. Sorry to be so blunt, but to train a mule you first have to get his attention.

We wish you all the best.

Hello and I do say thank you for the replies, very sincerely,

but calmly speaking, I'd like to explain just a bit as to why I am so very defensive (but not with you all), the way you choose to live and who you have sex with is your own personal choice, with no judgement from me....if it's good and works for you, then wonderful.

When Ric and I first met, we discussed our past, we confided in each other, our fears, our dreams, our wants out of life, I told him of things in my past, things that hurt me, almost drove me to the brink of killing myself, he too told me of his past, how he hurt for many years, his thoughts of ending it all....then as time went by and we began building a future together, he told me about these "fantasies" (wanting to take me to a strip club, because guys are so impressed when a man has his woman there, his curiousness over what goes on at a Swing Club, voyeurism, and of course having a 3sum,) at first thought I laughed and thought to myself, he's just saying this to appear open minded, this isn't really something he wants for us or for our relationship, especially after the lives he and I both had. So basically I disregarded what he was saying (big mistake on my part)

Soon after we moved in together, he began hinting for that 3sum, knowing that was a painful part of my past, that I had done it for an old b/f years ago with catastrophic results, I was humiliated, embarrassed, my self esteem was lower then shit.

He pushed and pushed, he yelled at me cause I didn't want to do that again in my life and that it wasn't something I wanted to do years ago, that I only did it to make my b/f happy, and how he hurt me with it, all Ric could say was how he must be the better man cause I gave him something that I wont do for him, how he felt cheated out of something that was "rightfully" his, how he's paying for some other ass holes mistake, and that if I wasn't made to be humiliated and etc, if it was handled better then I might be more ok with it now, needless to say, he yelled his views as I cried and attempted to explain that I didn't want it back then and don't want it now , that the thought of loosing his respect would kill me, kill us.

Nothing I could say or do would make him understand that I ONLY wanted HIM, and that if he truly loved me, that in my mind & heart that he should only want me, that did nothing, after an argument that carried over to the outside and he yelled at me that he was going to have his fantasies even if it meant leaving me and going back where he's from to find someone else that "thought like him" and that would want "what he wanted", I knew I had NO CHOICE but to give him what he wanted, even though he knew it was hurting me, so eventually I gave in after 10 months of on and off again yelling and fighting over him wanting a 3sum so he could be the better man, I finally gave in and did it, I came away with the same feelings of years ago, he however had not one thought as to what it was doing to me, he enjoyed what he got, I enjoyed knowing that he finally got what he wanted so badly, so in my "crazy" state of mind, I set up another 3sum but this time on my terms, I wanted him to sit and watch as I gave the man what I only give him, (less the kissing) let me tell you he didn't like it at all, he saw for the first time what he had done to me, what he was giving away, well his change of heart at not wanting to share me and have a normal marriage only lasted 2 or 3 days, and then he was back on the swinging kick, he learned no lasting heart lessons.

I wanted him to get a real good look at what he has now and that after his 22 years of begging his x wife for meaningless unsatisfying sex was not what he really wanted for us. But like I said, his change of heart didn't last for long, he still see's no harm in fucking other people for fun as harmful to us, that touching someone else is not wrong to him, well he can't see or comprehend that for US as a unit when I want nothing to do with touching or having sex with someone other then the man I promised myself to, that for us it is wrong and harmful.

You can take and make any opinion from what I've tried to explain and come to your own conclusion, but remember the posting "Sad Sight" in this forum and think how many women out there are doing this for their husbands or SO's, when talking and communicating does no good to open their eyes that this may not be the lifestyle for them, that this fantasy may not be what they really want, that it's not healthy to live this way when one person can't.

thanks.

Hello again, Di.

I will admit that your other post...calling the lifestyle crap and inferring that those of us that enjoy swinging and open sexuality are not "living a normal life" kind of set me off in a defensive mode. After all, this is a swingers board and most of us here enjoy our choice of lifestyle. If you go back and read through the various posts, I think it will be readily apparent that we do not try to hoist our lifestyle choices upon others and most of us are real quick to say that if the choice is not that of both partners, then don't go there.

Now for you...and your issues...everyone thus far has said something to the effect that the relationship between the couple - their relationship - is of primary importance. Swinging, involving couples and/or singles, should be a mutually agreed upon activity. It should be mutually pleasurable.

Quite frankly, I would never stay in any relationship with any person that tried to FORCE or coerce me into doing anything, up to and including the sharing of my sexuality. That is something that I really can't comprehend happening to me. Therefore, I guess I can't comprehend how others would allow it to happen to them. Right, wrong, or indifferent...I can't equate this type of attitude with love. All relationships are built on mutual respect, compromise, finding value in the others opinions and feelings, finding value in the ability to disagree but maintain respect for each other, sometimes putting aside ones own feelings and values out of respect for the other person. All relationships...including love relationships.

Where is that in the scenarios you present? Where is the respect for your feelings? Others have said you may want to exit the relationship...get counseling...I have to agree. It sounds like the issues of swinging are symptoms of bigger issues in the relationship.

I sincerely wish you the best and hope you can resolve this.

Put your foot down with him one last time. If you are swinging at all to make him happy (or doing anything, for that matter, JUST to make him happy) - STOP! And let him know that it will not continue. That you will not be pushed or connived into doing anything you are not comfortable with. I would also reccomend that you find a good marriage counselor. If he refuses to go, find a good lawyer. From the sounds of it, he's been pushing you head first since you got together. Having been through that once I can't imagine how you can stand to go through it again.

Di,

I usually lurk here because as a sociology minor, human interaction fascinates me.

Along with this group I visit several other "lifestyle" groups, ranging from ultra right to ultra left, to see reactions and get a different perspective. Often my involvement stems from my curiousity. If I don't understand something I become obsessed by it until I either incorporate it into my life or leave it by.

What I don't understand here is WHY are you HERE?

Based on your experience, your feelings and the overt and covert hostility you've expressed, what exactly were you trying to accomplish on this newsgroup?

You took the time to create a user name ( and I notice that it included him) and post. Though your second post was more informative your 1st one came off pretty hostile towards the people in this lifestyle. This is like marinating yourself in A-1 sauce before standing in front of a hord of lions. It isn't going to make things worse, but it sure won't help!

So what are you you looking for from these people?

The way I see it is you made 3 HUGE mistakes!

1) You told your SO about previous expriences you did not want to repeat.

2) You repeated them with your SO

3) you are blaming HIM for your behavior and more importantly your feelings!

No one, and I mean NO ONE can MAKE you DO anything against your will! People can force themselves on you i.e. a man can hold you down and rape you, but that is NOT you having sex with him.

YOU decided to "give in" as you call it and do something he wanted, then you tried using it as a weapon against him ( the bit about "see what he is giving away")

Your plan back fired on you and now you blame him.

Your relationship, and I use that term loosely, problems are not about swinging or even sex. It is about power and control.

From what you have written this is as much your fualt as it is his, but you can not change or control him. You can only take responsibility for YOU.

Other people have commented here that you should put your foot down one more time talk to him one more time etc.

I say YOU need to talk to YOU! You know one of those look yourself in the mirror and stop lying kind of talks.

If doing these things (swinging) are so repulsive to you, why did you come here for advise? Why did you try using it as a weapon?

Why exactly are you so willing to do things that you say are against your beliefs and then blame others for YOUR behavior?

Contrary to popular belief ANY long lasting relationship is based on compromise. No one lives in a purely 50/50 relationship where both parties get equally what they want.

I have friends who are currently going through a devorce because

he loves saltwater aquariums and she hates the mess his activites around the aquarium make in the house. He says that their sex lives is out of this world, yet he is unwilling to give up his hobby and she is unwilling to make any compromises on this issue. Does this make sense to you? It doesn't to me, but this is reality!

You've made a compromise. Now you have to figure out whether YOU can live within the scope of compromise you've created! The only person responsible for this is YOU.

You have 2 choices;

1) you accept the compromise you've made - balance the things you gain from the relationship, ( which frankly sounds like NILL) accept this as part of the bargain and quit whining.

or

2) You leave! And I don't mean tomorrow or after you had that talk or when the moon is full. I mean RIGHT NOW!

As for him? He has to make the same choice. Either he wants you and accepts the bargain or he doesn't, but that is HIS responsibility!

Corwyn

When I read this post my thoughts were similar to corwyns but he stated those ideas much better than I could. Well said Corwyn.

I totally agree with Corwyn. Well said..

Should have never started swinging if you did not want to do it in the first place. Never let people bully you into doing things you are not comfortable with.

well it's obvious that the last few replies didn't bother to read the other posts by me and why I was here, to gain a better understanding of this lifestyle and the why's that some people can't live without it, regardless of how I got here, it's pretty obvious that I am here, but what some of the last posters fail to understand is that I am not here by my own choice, for if it were by MY choice I've have nothing to do with this lifestyle, my husband is the one that brought it up and then wouldn't let it go when I begged, pleaded, cried, etc......

He is the one that wants to have sex with other people, NOT ME, and yes I may have failed at my worthless attempt to SHOW him what he was giving away, and yes again that failure is on me, and sorry to report but I have not used it as a weapon on him, it was a mistake to try and show an addict what he wants, cause it only made him want more without the cost of losing what he says he's waited all his life for. ME. So who are you and why do you thoughtlessly pass your poor judgement on me and try to blame me for HIS wants and HIS pushyness????

If the situation was reversed and it was me that was wanting something that he didn't and if I knew how he felt, it would have never been brought up or pushed down this throat..... But it's ok to blame me, why not, right, what he wants is ok, what I want isn't. I have no rights according to the last few posters, that much is obvious and then blame me for his addiction.

I'm perfectly satisfied with the man I married, I have no need to look elsewhere for sex or anything else. But ya know what , I do, and his manipulative games on praying on my past and my pain is over.

Bottom line, ricndi032903, you've gotta choice. Hold tight to your stance and go, or give up your way of thinking about swinging and stay. Regardless of what he may have told you in the early stages of your relationship, he's apparently telling you something different now. Either way, you have the choice.

This board, while a discussion board for swinging, is not a place for solving serious marital issues and it sounds like ya'll have really serious issues. You may want to consider counseling - couples counseling. If he won't go, go alone. Again...a choice you need to make for yourself. Kind of sounds to me like you aren't doing much to help yourself. Maybe that's what you need to do first. Help yourself. Once you do that, the rest will fall into place.

As for your other posts...those that responded, responded to THIS post and these comments, among others:

So why don't some of the wifes that have been forced , manulipated or whatever stand up and say hell no, I would really like to know how many swinging wives are doing this to keep their husbands happy at their own expence. and why can't the men accept the wife's decision to have a normal marriage, why do they have to push and behave so badly when told no? cause to me the moment you step away from your SO you step away period.

The above comments are your opinions, but obviously not the opinions of the many wives that post here and enjoy swinging. Read the many posts from the many females on this board. I don't think you will find many women here that feel they are being "forced." In fact, many women were the "instigators" of swinging. Simple as that. -EBF

WOW, this is the first opportunity that I have had to read this thread. Hmmmph.

First off, ricndi032903, I am somewhat offended by your not so subtle criticizing of those of us that choose to live an alternative lifestyle. You came her asking for advice and you have had numerous posters, both male, female, couples and singles alike who have given you some excellent advice, all of which I agree with.

I am the female half of OhioCouple, and I choose to be in this lifestyle. I enjoy it, my husband enjoys it and there are thousands of other people that do to, just in our tri-state area.

Swinging is not for everyone, no question about it. There is nothing wrong with saying "Hey this just isn't for me"... your problems lie with the relationship of your husband. Because ya'll can't do what is best for EACH OTHER.

Hands down, you need to get to a marriage counselor and if he won't go, then it's time to head for the attorney. I know that I for sure wouldn't live in this miserable state of affairs.

That is reality and you aren't seeing it.

There is an old favorite saying that my Grandaddy used to say...

"If people keep telling you that you have a tail, you had better turn around and look". Right now you are having all these folks telling you that you have a serious marital problem, but you can't turn around to find it. It is quite obvious that we can't help you.

Best of luck to you,

When my wife and I first met, Di, we discovered an ability to communicate neither of us had ever known with another person. Twenty-three years later it's still there.

We both had a lot of, yes, fun, with sex before we met each other and are both fully acquainted with the difference between "Making Love" and "sex for fun." Perhaps you never did that when you were single, but both of us did and both of us enjoyed it. Swinging, though not a central facet of our life, allows us to "have sex for fun" without the strong emotions involved in "making love." Although "Making Love" is the most important to both of us, we have learned we can have both without risking our relationship.

We've found, also, that the ability to talk about sex with others removes any fear in communication. We are never afraid to bring up any subject because of a fear for how the other might react.

I enjoy working on cars, getting my hands greasy. Mrs. Alura likes knitting, quilting, scrapbooking, things she keeps clean hands doing. She rides in my cars and I wear the sweaters she has knitted for me. I tried knitting once but found it very frustrating, couldn't keep the rows even or remember when I needed to knit or purl. I don't think she's ever worked on a car with me, something I'd really love, but I've never encouraged her to develop an interest. She does, however, help me clean the garage to get it ready to work on a car and helps me push the non-running cars around as needed. I guess that's our compromise.

If your husband won't give up his interest in swinging, he needs a new wife; if you won't give the lifestyle any consideration at all, you need a new husband. If both of you refuse to compromise, that makes the problem unsolvable.

Our best of luck to both of you.

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Originally posted by ricndi032903

I am not here by my own choice, for if it were by MY choice I've have nothing to do with this lifestyle, my husband is the one that brought it up and then wouldn't let it go when I begged, pleaded, cried, etc...... He is the one that wants to have sex with other people, NOT ME

You do have a choice! No one can force you into swinging unless you let then. You have expressed your revulsion for the idea of swinging and say that you have told your husband the same. If that is the case the problem is not with swinging it is with your husband for not CARING about your feelings and with you for letting him get away with it.

You have a serious problem with your marriage and need to deal with it. That can range from counseling to divorce. If you are not willing to accept that, stop complaining.

I agree with most of the others who have posted, both partners have to be into it or it's no-way or us either. I also feel each person or cpl should make their own choices in their own lifestyles and many of us here choose to participate in this "crap" as you described it. If you are not into then your not so tell him if he doesn't listen keep telling him. I never agree to anything I don't want to agree to and have never given up my own free will in this life just to make him happy. If there are women out there who have I am very sorry for them. In this lifestyle if both partners are not into it they shouldn't be doing it but then again just my opinion I never criticize anyone else choices.

Well I can only guess I've offended a bunch of you and there's really nothing I can say or do, but say I'm sorry for bothering,

But I'll say this much, NO, I've never had sex for the fun or thrill of it, I never had those thoughts, if it wasn't with someone that I loved or cared about, it just didn't happen, I never lived a sexually promisquisious lifestyle either. Also I'm not a natrual born cheater and if he wants another woman for his sexual satisfaction then he might as well move on, cause I am not about to give him my permission to have sex with someone, with or without my being there. (to me; it's still cheating)

It's hard for you all to understand that other then the swinging issue, we get along fine, we don't argue or fight, but when he tells me how much he wants it and why, and I try to express my opinion and what I feel it would do to us and our marriage, he makes lite of my views. He can't express why he wants this lifestlye in a way I can understand, to me, he either wants me or he dosen't.

but I wish someone would just tell me...

why does anyone has the right to keep forcing the issue and their views (why it's ok and not damanging) when the other person has said no?

why when a man knows the hurtful past of the woman he loves does he have the right to inflict that same pain (a 3sum) for the sheer fact that it proves he's the better man???

why does he or anyone else want this for the sheer fact (that he's told me) that having sex with someone other then your SO is fun, different, or strange???

If there is no emotional attachment, then what's the purpose of doing it???

What pleasure can anyone really possibly have watching the one you love having sex with someone else???

Isn't the sex you have susposed to be special, or be with someone that is special or at least feel something for them???

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Originally posted by ricndi032903

 

but I wish someone would just tell me...

And then you listed a litany of questions...all of which have been answered numerous times in this thread and others. To quote Fun_Pair...your husband is "an asshole." And you are looking to us to make it not so. You came here with preconceived ideas, closed to anything other than what you want to believe. No where on this board will you ever read that swinging is for everyone. Neither are hot dogs, pets, choices of partners...nothing is for everyone. Even those that enjoy swinging...it may be only at certain times in their lives...it may be an interest never acted on...it may be a frequent occurrence.

Maybe the reason he is acting like such an "asshole" is because of your closed mind...your absolute refusal to see, hear, or consider anything other than what you want. But essentially, I see two people that are refusing to listen to each other on some real basic issues. Not a happy future, I'm afraid. Ya'll have more problems that can ever be addressed here.

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Originally posted by ricndi032903

Well I can only guess I've offended a bunch of you and there's really nothing I can say or do, but say I'm sorry for bothering,

 

I'm not offended, Di. One of the things you asked is why we swing and many of us have tried to explain. Perhaps that's the mistake we've made. There's an adage among bikers about why people ride Harley-Davidsons. "If you understand, no explanation is necessary; if you don't understand, no explanation is possible."

 

But I'll say this much, NO, I've never had sex for the fun or thrill of it, I never had those thoughts, if it wasn't with someone that I loved or cared about, it just didn't happen, I never lived a sexually promiscuous lifestyle either. Also I'm not a natural born cheater and if he wants another woman for his sexual satisfaction then he might as well move on, cause I am not about to give him my permission to have sex with someone, with or without my being there. (to me; it's still cheating)

 

Swinging is definitely not for you. There is a great deal of difference between having sex for fun and making love. If you consider all sex only for making love, that immediately rules you out. Tell your husband that in no uncertain terms.

 

It's hard for you all to understand that other then the swinging issue, we get along fine, we don't argue or fight, but when he tells me how much he wants it and why, and I try to express my opinion and what I feel it would do to us and our marriage, he makes lite of my views. He can't express why he wants this lifestyle in a way I can understand, to me, he either wants me or he doesn't.

 

He probably makes light of your views because he doesn't agree with them. I think most of the people who have answered your questions understand precisely what you mean. We just don't agree. He may also not fully understand why he wants to play. How much research into the lifestyle has he done?

 

but I wish someone would just tell me...

 

why does anyone has the right to keep forcing the issue and their views (why it's ok and not damaging) when the other person has said no?

 

No one has the right to nag when someone says, "No!" But you should be glad he doesn't just shut up. This way he makes you aware that the issue is not settled, at least not in his mind. There is a saying I heard in Germany; I was told it was said to Charlemagne by one of his lieutenants. "It is a deadly error to believe you have won your opponent over when all you have accomplished is to have silenced him."

 

why when a man knows the hurtful past of the woman he loves does he have the right to inflict that same pain (a 3sum) for the sheer fact that it proves he's the better man???

 

Well, it certainly does not "prove he's the better man." It's great for the ego and there are a lot of thrills involved but it doesn't prove jack shit. If he thinks it does, he has more problems than you and he know. He has no right at all to inflict pain.

 

why does he or anyone else want this for the sheer fact (that he's told me) that having sex with someone other then your SO is fun, different, or strange???

 

It's fun. But the "funnest" part is that we do it together. I refer you back to the Harley-Davidson question.

 

If there is no emotional attachment, then what's the purpose of doing it???

 

It's very different from making love. When we make love we're very emotional, deeply into each other, we seldom say more than "I love you." When we play with another couple, we laugh, we joke, we talk, we play, we have fun.

 

What pleasure can anyone really possibly have watching the one you love having sex with someone else???

 

I think pride has something to do with it. Mrs. Alura is a beautiful woman and a dynamite sex partner. I love her so much and I'm so proud of her!!! It's a similar feeling when my son makes a touchdown or brings home straight "A's". She's a great cook, too, and I'm proud of her when we have people over for dinner.

 

Isn't the sex you have supposed to be special, or be with someone that is special or at least feel something for them???

Believe me, the sex we have together is, indeed, special. It is nothing like what we do with others, although we need to be friends with them, too, so I guess you could say we "feel something special" for them. We've turned down a lot more people than we've played with, which, in my mind makes our playmates "special."

There is a book available called The Lifestyle. If you and he were to read it together, it might help you to understand what swinging is all about, if nothing else.

Again, our best to you and your husband. I sincerely hope you can work this out.

but I wish someone would just tell me...

why does anyone has the right to keep forcing the issue and their views (why it's ok and not damanging) when the other person has said no?

They don't.

why when a man knows the hurtful past of the woman he loves does he have the right to inflict that same pain (a 3sum) for the sheer fact that it proves he's the better man???

They don't.

If there is no emotional attachment, then what's the purpose of doing it???

People do what works for them. Healthy people in healthy relationships don't participate in anything that puts their relationship at risk, unless they understand the risks, are in it together, and can weather, together, if it goes wrong. Because they will lean on each other and take it as a participatory adventure.

You, my dear, are none of those things. If your goal is to bash swinging, there are many sites out there you can access and this I fear isn't one of them. We wish you well but my personal feeling is you won't find what you need, crave, or are flummoxed about, on this site.

Always strikes me strange that anti swingers sometimes head STRAIGHT for a swinger site....

Quote

Originally posted by yawanna

flummoxed

 

Always strikes me strange that anti swingers sometimes head STRAIGHT for a swinger site....

flummoxed..................Cool word! I Like it!

Heading straight for a swinger's site? Kind of like not wanting to look at an accident scene on the side of the road...but you just can't turn your eyes away....I think. Maybe? But sometimes people come here just to learn, explore, expand their horizons, make informed decisions. Those that come with closed minds, preconceived attitudes, negativity, yet asking for "help"...those are the people that confuse us. We use our time to give honest answers about what works for us individually...and it is ignored or ridiculed. Ouch!!

You are in love with a man you cannot live with. The fact that you love him has blinded you to how he really feels about your feelings and your place in his life. You say that you really don't argue except about swinging, but he refuses to accept that you don't want to swing. You say you get along great, but he insists on bringing up a topic that not only makes you uncomfortable but scares and confuses you. I am sorry, but you have avoided the truth about your relationship, and that is that it is in trouble.

If this were a matter that concerned money or your inlaws or the jobs you held, you would have IMMEDIATELY gone to someone, either your pastor or a professional conselor, for advice on how to overcome this one issue. But its about sex. More importantly, a sexual lifestyle that few understand and fewer are able to last long in. Because it is about sex, and you said you don't believe in casual sex, you are embarrassed to seek help from those who are QUALIFIED to help you, so you turn to us.

I am sorry, but we cannot help you. The only thing we can do is tell you what we have experienced in our lives and what we understand from what you have wirtten.

I have a short story to tell you. Five years ago I met a woman, quite by accident, who eventually became a swing partner. I found out she was in the lifestyle a year later because we were invited to the same party in Ohio, but were invited seperately. Up until that point we were just friends. Close but friends. Fastforward two year later and we were on our way to becoming more than friends. Then we were both offered really good jobs. Me in Grand Rapids and her in Los Angeles. We took the jobs and a year later she got married. Still trying to live the lifestyle, she introduced her new husband to me and some of her old swing friends. After a racketball match, I got the feeling her husband was not impressed with the lifestyle. The last time I talked to them, she had just had a baby and had given up swinging. Why? Because she felt being with him was more important that than having recreational sex.

THAT is how someone with a healthy attitude deals with someone who has a different opinion about something as charged as swinging. And as much as it may offend you to hear this, your husband, despite how much you feel he loves you, doesn't seem to be able to make that decision. Either that, or you are jerking us around. Either way, it is your life and, take it from someone who almost died recently, YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE FINAL DECISION ON WHAT YOU NEED TO FEEL HAPPY AND SECURE! Even if it means leaving your husband and finding someone else who shares your sexual beliefs.

omg bravo EBF and ES Geez y'all (many posters) could take some of your posts and write a BOOK.

Gawd I luv this board You help so much in so many ways.

...or could I at least have y'all to dinner?? what an evening THAT would be

Wow I haven't read that word since Rex Stout died and subsequently stopped writing novels.

The answer to your problem is simple and has been offered several times. Get help, or get out. Either way stay away from swinging or any other activity that requires advanced communication skills.

Sorry for being so harsh but I am guessing this site is becomming, or has been from the begginning, a source of amusement for ricndi032903.

The fact that some people get off on pushing other people's buttons is the REAL mystery to me.

Quote

Originally posted by bobandsandy

 

Sorry for being so harsh but I am guessing this site is becoming, or has been from the beginning, a source of amusement for ricndi032903.

You may be right, bobandsandy, but somehow I don't think so. Of course, if anyone can be wrong about that type of stuff, it's me! Seems there is a lot of anger and emotion in the posts...more than you see when someone is posting just to push buttons. But if your're right, she/he pushed some buttons!

1. I'm not anti swinging.

if it works for you, then fine, if not, then fine,

my hubby loves peas, do I? no. Do I prepare them for him. yes. Do I eat them with him, no way, there gross.

Simply put, to each their own.

2. I'm as open minded as the next person, for if not I doubt I'd be here or with him, or even trying to gain any understanding what-so-ever on something he wants. But also trying to make him understand where I'm coming from and that if you play with fire, your bound to get burnt.

He thinks that us having sex with other people will enhance our sex life, make us closer, and yet maybe I'm fooling myself by thinking that our sex life and life is already great and that we as a couple are as close as anybody can possibly be.

When he brags/ tells me how he never cheated on his first wife of 22 years and never asked her about swinging (even though it's been in his mind forever) and then tells me how special I am that he's even asking about this, which makes me feel offended that he didn't ask his 1st wife, in some backwards way of thinking on my part; that him asking me, is making me dirty and keeping the mother of his kids clean.

But then at the same time, I kinda feel honored that he asked me and not her, that he trusted me and not anyone else, his reason for not asking her was, that she was sexually dead from the neck down and therefore why even ask when she didn't want sex to begin with....and for that I can understand.

So I research all aspects of swinging, in hopes that I might be able to find something, some part of his fantasy that I can share with him, so that I feel safe and it's not threatening to our relationship.

I tell him that I'm only comfy with voyeurism and expo. he says ok, that he doesn't need or want another woman, and then in the same breath says but how much fun it could be and how strange and exciting it would be. So he's basically saying he doesn't want anyone else, but that he really does.

I just want to yell at him; shit or get off the pot. He used double talk. And that is what confuses me and why I come here and ask the questions I've asked, and the one poster was right, this clearly isn't something I can go ask my pastor about.... it's embarrassing to say the least. And of course knowing how people gossip at church, my kids would know about it. A professional sex therapist, thought about that, but would hate for a session to turn into a gang up on Di event or hate it even more if it turned into a gang up on Ric event.

Ya know, I buy and prepared peas for my husband, not because I want to eat them, but because he wants them, he loves them and I buy and prepare them for him because I love him. But ya know, years ago before we met, he hit himself in the balls with a sledge hammer, was I there to see it? No, is it something I want him to do for me? No, why? cause it hurt him, Do I sit there and tell him to do it so it can make me feel like the "better woman" , no, if it hurt him, then I want no part of it.

How could I possibly view having sex with others as cheating? well maybe because in the past 2 major relationships I've had, I was cheated on and him wanting this is the same as cheating, but with a twist, get the wives permission and then it's not cheating. and at the same time, give her your permission to have sex with someone and then you don't feel so guilty. Why? cause your both having sex with someone else. So why get married, just have an open relationship.

It's like I've said before, he thinks one way on this, and I think my way, but also I'm the one trying to see his side of it, trying to open my eyes even more, when he fails to see my side, but my common sense says and tells me after seeing his ex wife and hearing the horrible stories about his marriage to her and weighing what he had then and what he has now, and how much better we have it together, it's enough to make a crazy person sane in trying to figure him and this out.

But I do thank you for trying to give me a better understanding and in many ways you have, you've all helped and not in just siding with him or me, but in showing me your human, caring side to even reply at all.

thanks

Just one more thing, Di, which I don't think has been sufficiently covered. There are a lot of fun things about swinging that have nothing to do with sexual intercourse. As an example, I'd like to ask you to read the thread, "Midwest Meet-Up! II 10/18" in the "Meet Up!" Forum. That forum has been very successful in getting people together for a "no strings attached" meeting, usually a dinner in a restaurant. The Mid-Westerners just had a great one in Dayton, Ohio.

Di,

Someone suggested I weigh in on this, so here goes...

Actually, after reading through this thread, there is not just a whole lot to add. Most of what needed to be said to you already has been.

Your reaction to the whole concept of swinging is not unusual. My ex-wife feels as you do about it, even to the point of wanting to puke, as you mentioned in an earlier thread. Of course, knowing her as I did, I knew better than to even bring up the subject, let alone try to talk her into it. After we divorced, I got into swinging and later told her about it (we are still friends). She was so outraged she didn't know whether to shit or go blind. And her reaction is the common one among most women to the idea of swinging.

Anthropologically speaking, women have been hard-wired, so to speak, to tend to latch on to one mate, and keep to that one mate, just as men tend have the evolution-driven urge to spread their DNA around as much as possible. Plus, societies in general tend to place a lot of importance on marital fidelity and maintaining an intact marriage. No matter what culture on this planet one examines, they all have the institution of marriage in one form or another, and a lot of importance is placed on same within a social group.

There is nothing wrong with this. Marriage as an institution would not have existed throughout human history unless those participating in it were getting more good than bad from the practice. And truth be known, most women, and not a few men, feel as you do about the swinging lifestyle. So be it.

However, there is a small segment of the married population that has, for whatever reason, moved beyond the usual evolutionary and social strictures regarding sex. These couples, such as you find here, have discovered that it is indeed possible for sex to be a purely recreational activity, freely shared by both marriage partners, with other married couples, and a good time is had by all, etc.

And the thing is, swing couples do not love each other less, nor is their lovemaking any less important and special than with a non-swing couple. It is simply that they have found that you can indeed engage in social activity with another couple or couples which includes mutually consensual, pleasurable and fun recreational sex, and that both the man and the woman can engage in this enjoyably (and make no mistake, there is a helluva lot more to swinging than just fucking). And it is not for everyone, and no one with more than two brain cells to rub together would think otherwise.

But then we come to Ric and Di. Based on everything I've read from you (Di) on this thread, it is clear that Ric is one of the leading assholes in the state of Pennsylvania (if I recall the state correctly; if not, just fill in the name of whatever state you do live in). If what you have said is true, about the arguments, yelling, crying (!?!?) and so forth that he's done to coerce you into playing, when he already knows how you feel about the idea, then in my not-so-humble opinion he should be taken out and shot, if for no other reason than to clean out the shallow end of the gene pool. To me, and I'll wager damn near everyone else on this board, the idea of someone forcing, by whatever means, their spouse to engage in an activity that she finds repugnant is so over the top as to be beyond belief. To say he should be ashamed of himself would be an understatement.

As for you, dear Di, not to put too fine a point on it, but you are an IDIOT! Jesus H. Christ, woman, have you never heard of the word "NO"?!?! You let this clown yell, cry, scream and whine until you gave in and did something that, by your own admission, made you want to vomit? You NEVER, EVER let ANYONE coerce you into doing ANYTHING you don't want to do, especially of such a personal, intimate nature. To let him do that is so stupid as to be beyond belief. There are certain lines that you just don't cross in a marriage, and BOTH of you have crossed them. Do NOT make that mistake again.

I have one word of advice for you, sweetie. This weekend, after the kids are asleep and all that, you go take a nice bath, put on some of his favorite perfume, slip into your favorite sexy nightie, and go to that bonehead you are married to and climb into his lap. Then you shove your tits in his face to get his attention, then you lean back, point down at your pussy and say "Darling, you see this? Because I love you, that, along with the rest of me (a nice sexy wiggle of the tits and ass would be good at this point), is for you and you alone, now and forever. And I don't want to hear one more fucking word out of you about this swinging crap. It's not gonna happen, it's a dead issue, period. And if you can't handle this, then as much as I love you, don't let the doorknob hit you in the ass on your way out."

Either of two things will happen. Either he will straighten up and fly right, concentrating his energies on making the two of you happy together (I would still suggest marriage counseling for both of you), or he will leave (or you throw him out because he won't shut the fuck up about it), in which case you are well rid of him. Then you can go find yourself a man whose thought processes are more to your liking.

There is really nothing more to say. Have a nice life, hon...

And I will admit, Di, I am the one that asked Bear to take a look at this thread. I strongly suspected his opinions would be similar to mine and others, but I didn't try to "influence" him one way or the other. I merely asked him to take a look at it...for your benefit as well as mine...wondering if I was missing the boat somewhere.

Bear has a way of cutting through the crap and getting at the heart of the matter with words in ways that many of us can't. More than once, his posts have caused me to look at things differently, and sometimes open my eyes to things I just couldn't see. Sorta like that thing of not being able to see the forest for the trees.

That being said...I hope you will take his words to heart. I can't imagine being in the situation you are in. Whether you helped create the situation or not...the way you feel now is what is most important and we've all created situations for ourselves that we later wished we could un-create. Life in action.

I sincerely wish you the best and I would also like to suggest that regardless of the outcome...spend some time here...read the different threads and comments. Not for the purpose of changing your mind, but for the purpose of gaining some degree of understanding and to learn that swinging is about more than just sex for the vast majority of us. If nothing else...some of us have formed close friendships with people we may never meet. And that's just part of it.

My, this has been a fascinating couple of pages! I will try to refrain from repeating what a lot of people have already said, but there are some thoughts I have that haven't shown up yet. It seems to me that the sexual activity in a lot of marriages is pretty much controlled by the person with the lowest sex drive. That may very well explain why a lot of men tend to stray into affairs...they just aren't getting the stimulation that they feel they should. The sexual activity of most couples is fairly intense during the beginning of a relationship, yet tends to slow down as the years progress. One member of the couple doesn't require as much sexual satisfaction as the other, so the one with the lowest sex drive becomes the one behind the wheel. The other person then starts to feel like they are missing something. "I have pledged faithfulness to my wife, yet I know that when I go home tonight there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of me getting any".

They then realize that they have absolutely no control over their own sexuality within the marriage...it's all up to the little woman as to when, where and how they will have sex. They have, by this time, seen their wife naked countless times, and realize that they will never again have the opportunity to see another woman naked and in their arms. The eroticism that was present in their early lovemaking is gone and is replaced by a comfortable feeling of safety and reassurance, but where is the excitement, the eroticism, the fun? This sacred act of love which is only shared with the one you have pledged your heart to becomes little more than scratching an itch or a good sneeze. Gone is the excitement, the nervous energy, the eroticism, the feeling of wonder and discovery, or even the naughtiness that comes from first-time experiences. So, the guy strays, not because he doesn't love his wife anymore, but because he craves the feeling of excitement that used to accompany sexual activity. His wife soon feels that something isn't right. He's not paying her much attention and soon she begins to feel neglected. She catches him in a few lies. Pretty soon, some other guy begins to give her the attention she isn't getting from hubby and before she knows it, this Lothario has gotten her slightly drunk and is banging the hell out of her.

This is normal. If you consider normal to be 50% or more of the whole. Just look at how many lawyers are filthy rich because of cheating husbands and wives. This may explain why a lot of people decide to swing. They just want to revive the excitement in their sex-lives. It's been said that you can take the most beautiful, sexy woman in the world and there is one man who will not get excited at the thought of seeing her nude, or climbing into his bed....the guy who's been married to her for the last 7 or 8 years! Not to say that this is right, but it seems to be basic human nature. We tend to want that which we do not have.

A lot of those within the swinging community have overcome this basic human weakness with something which they can share together, and many of them say that the best sex is with their own partner after the swing session is over.

I know that I will not change the way you feel about swinging and I have no intention of even trying...the choice is entirely yours to make. I just wanted to try to put a few things into some perspective so that maybe you can understand where Ric may be coming from. We control every aspect of our fantasies, but little of our actual lives. But take away our fantasies, and what do we have left that we can control? Just a little food for thought. I wasn't offended by anything you posted, and I hope that I don't offend you, but you two don't just need to talk, you need to listen as well.

Wow, what great stuff. I only recently found this board and have never posted before, but I feel compelled to write.

I have been married for 7 years. I love my wife. I also think Sportync said something that I have kind of felt for years, but haven't ever really seen with such clarity. I have to agree that it is interesting that the sexuality within a relationship is bounded and controlled by the partner with the lower sex drive. It can make it frustrating for the partner with the greater sex drive. But I can understand why this is. It is probably largely due to our rather puritan society which probably assigns more moral "rightness" in the camp of a totally monogamous relationship. Society tends to treat sex in a less than positive way in my opinion, so again, the person with the lower sex drive draws comfort and strength that they are "right". There are also many good arguments for a monogamous relationship, but that is for another thread.

Di - in my case, I do have desires to participate in some form of swinging relationship. I hinted at my desires a few years ago and could tell that my wife had pretty strong feelings to the contrary. That was the end of the conversation and I have not pushed since. That is largely because I love her, respect her, and can tell that this is a battle that I will not win through any type of coercion on my part. And while I can understand your husband's desires I have to wonder if he is like me, or if he really is an unreasonable person.

He could be like me. I love my wife but have physical attractions for other women. It is pretty simple. I could have sexual interactions with other people but still quite contentedly cuddle up to my wife at night. I love her for many more reasons than sex. If I felt that I could persuade my wife into some form of adventurous open lifestyle, I would. But I don't think I can so I don't. Perhaps your husband pushes because you are sending mixed signals. I realize that you probably don't think you are sending any, but consider the possibility.

The alternative is that he isn't like me. Perhaps he is very clear about your limits and he continues to push. If this is the case, then I have to agree with everyone else. Your husband suffers from a lack of sensitivity and doesn't possess the level of respect required for a healthy marriage. Counseling would be in order.

As for all who have posted on this thread, I am impressed by your responses and openness.

Just wanted to say Thanks for all the replies, and I do mean ALL.

Bear & Bi I think were the most help, and of course everyone, While it's very difficult to be in my position, mother, 2nd wife, having always been on the shitty end of life and felt that I was about to have my fairy tale come true. In many ways it has, although I never dreamed that my new life would ever consist of my new husband asking for something like this.

Always searching in my heart for the one man that would be faithful and want to be faithful to just me, ya know, to love me enough to want me and only me.

Even though I know Ric loves me beyond words, none the less, it hurt me deeply to know that he and I are not on the same page in wanting a more traditional marriage, meaning when it comes to sex, that it just be him and I. That's been my fantasy all my life.

To Bear I will say this, Yes dear you are correct, Over the "swing thing"; He is a ass hole and I am a idiot, He pushed and pushed and I crumbled due to my fear of loosing him to someone that would want this lifestyle, my heart and mouth said NO, but yet I gave in. And you would be very correct in assuming that it will never happen to me again.

I am only comfortable with the very bear bones aspects of this lifestyle, I require a huge degree of safety, respect and security as a woman, wife and mother. And in him understanding this, it shows me respect and makes me feel secure, and safe in my relationship with him as his wife.

And as of currently, I am happy to report that he is doing and showing me these things that I need and require to maintain a healthy marriage, while I still research the lifestyle and gain more understanding, as to better comprehend his wants and needs.

I have actually given your situation a little more thought and hope you don't mind me sharing something I ran across the other day.

A couple of weeks ago, I went to a communication seminar. It suggested that in many situations where communication is tough and discussions are whipping up a bunch of unproductive emotions, communication can often be improved by focusing on two things: feelings and the needs/desires which produce those feelings. For example, let me illustrate by using your situation as an example.

You might tell your husband that you feel hurt and sad and that what you need is to feel loved to the exclusion of others and his desire to swing doesn't meet your need.

He might respond that he feels frustrated and what he needs is more sexual excitement in his life and he thinks that swinging would satisfy that need.

From here one of 3 things might happen.

Compromise: Once you each understand each other's feelings and needs, you two might compromise. You might meet some of his needs by agreeing to find some other ways to make your sex more exciting that does not involve other people and that might meet his need.

Give in: One of the unique things about being human is that we can actually derive pleasure out of meeting someone else's needs. You might agree to swing and find some satisfaction that you have made your husband happy or he might agree to no change and know that his decision has made you happy and thus derive some satisfaction.

Nothing: Finally you may both learn that your needs totally conflict and each of your needs is so important that compromise and giving in don't work. This isn't the outcome we want, but at least we understand where each other is coming from. Sometimes there is an interesting story behind our needs. (I hate to admit that I actually saw an interesting episode on Oprah which dealt with this subject - don't tell anyone I watched Oprah.)

I have obviously made my own guess at what each of you feels and needs, but most likely things are far more complicated. If nothing else, this kind of discussion would be enlightening.

Good luck.

Well guys. I am speechless at the amount of information given here and the myriad different ways to look at stuff.

I do believe that we all have to know how to use language and learn to listen, really listen to each other.

ricndi032903, Man I wish you luck. I'm sure you deserve better than you have had recently. Remember that most great things are usually produced with heat used in the process somewhere.

Just make sure that you are happy in your decisions but don't go overboard with the compromising, OK?