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atlas

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15 Good

About atlas

  • Rank
    Contributor
  • Birthday 11/03/1976

Personal Info

  • Relationship Status
    Couple
  • Location
    Chicago Suburbs
  • Interests
    Computers, gardening, games, ceramics
  • Swinging Experience
    never

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  1. I was looking for validation of my reaction and a sounding board. I wasn't sure if I was reacting unfairly to the situation or not. I do understand I'm not going to only hear the advice I want to hear. Some advice was closer to personal attacks on myself and my wife, though. Maybe it's simply an interpretation problem on both sides. Communication is difficult in that no one is a mind reader, and I'm probably not the best writer. I knew it would be difficult to communicate the problem without diving into pages of the various nuances of each actor (plus while trying to be accurate and impartial). I'm sorry for that, but it's the nature of all communication. My wife and I have had long talks about the situation and still rehash it a bit, though less and less. She has talked to him. *I* have talked to him. It wasn't the type of conversation I hoped for due to him wanting to get out of the conversation ASAP. Either way, it's been communicated all around. Any further transgressions and I will deal with it as needed. My wife and I both agree that there is no need to kick him out at this point. I understand most feel there shouldn't be a second chance, but we disagree. Maybe a different interpretation of what PB&J said, if my wife feels there's something to be handled, I will. Neither of us feel it's needed at this point. Regarding my state, I think I've mostly been over it since we put a stop to it. There is some residual anger, but it's been fading and will continue to fade. There are always bumps and bruises when you make a wrong turn and they don't heal overnight. The source of pain is gone(for her and I), and we're moving on.
  2. We're more of a partnership, I guess. If she wanted me to boot him, it'd happen. No such request has been made. She feels as I. We can live and learn without punishing. I did ask for advice. However, some of it came off a little rough. A preface doesn't make it any nicer. It's the old joke of, "I don't mean to be a dick, but you're an asshole!" The preface doesn't excuse it (Not calling you names, just pointing out common conversational fallacy).
  3. Look... he is both of our friend. We share some responsibility for the situation for being so open in our discussions. We both decided to go along with the experiment till I it clearly became a bad idea. She has spoken to him and, albeit briefly, we have spoken. Everyone knows it's done. If anything other than a joke here or flirt there was going on, I would be putting on the boots. However, everyone is currently respecting each others space. There's no reason to go apeshit over my change of heart. I know the idea of adults co-habitation isn't too popular in the US, but what makes it work is not having a "my way or the highway" attitude. Not blowing up when something doesn't work out.
  4. Ahh.. so much to respond to, but I'll try and be brief. I smell some take-charge alpha males out there that love flexing their muscles. Ain't me boys. Yes, I'm passive. I'm sure not impulsive. When I am impulsive, I've usually changed my mind or regretted it. I also make mistakes and change my mind. You boys that are so cocksure of yourself go ahead, grab you nut, and go making the world right. Peace. The situation was a mistake. I posted for advice on the correct way to rectify the mistake with the least damage. I also needed to know if I was reacting unfairly. I'm fairly satisfied with the result. Might we be happier if he moved out? Maybe. I'm not sure we'd feel good about kicking him out on something we appeared to condone. I do have some anger and, in hindsight, his behavior was a bit shady too. I am willing to let mistakes be mistakes without unleashing more. I trust my wife to let me know if she's feeling pressured, and she's been keeping me abreast of things. Regarding wrecking his life and creating drama? Come on now. There was a situation that evolved, and I changed my mind. Anyone has the right to change their mind at any time. He was heavily flirting with my wife as he was strangling his relationship. He was also propositioning his ex-girlfriend's friend but didn't make any "official" moves till they were through (that way he wasn't "cheating", *sigh*). That later flamed out when everyone else found out. If I had any part in destroying HIS life, it was only in providing temptation. No, that's life. Communication... Relatively speaking, my wife and I have good communication. There's never a topic off-limits and anything can be shared. Has she dropped details in the past. Yes. She's was trying to be considerate of my feelings. I've confronted her on it and let her know that's not acceptable. I'm not going to beat her up over it. I've asked her to work on it, and we'll go from there. She was upfront about the situation and asked my permission. That is enough for me to believe there isn't a horde of lies behind her words. Since the mistake, we've been to a club twice. The first time we only played with each other. That was great. The second time, we found a couple and participated in a full swap. It was OK but maybe a tad too fast. We learned a bit and we'll probably slow down for the summer. Thanks to everyone for the constructive advice.
  5. We discussed it and rationalized it. However, you never really know how you're going to react till you cross the line. That's something we're going to have to figure out. You're right, though, how we come to terms with it over the next weeks/months probably determine our future in the lifestyle. No regrets either way.
  6. Yes, he's still rooming with us. He's been talking about moving out due to the flameout of his most recent relationship (after my wife, a separate long overdramatic story). My wife and I are rooting for him to move. That would be the simplest answer: moving out. I have anger toward him, but not enough to let it manifest. I trust my wife to keep him in check, but I don't like her being in that position. The only time I raised the conversation, he quickly backpedaled out of it. He's always been very private about his life, so it's not out of character for him to avoid it. I think there's also guilt on his side and fear of my anger. On the same token, he's much more of a romantic and easily falls for his fantasies. I worry that he's setting my wife up as "the one that got away". I don't like the thought of him pining for her, falling in love with the fantasy of her. I guess it boils down to that I trust her. I think she's strong enough to keep him out, and I think she's over the fantasy. Therefore, it's not worth making destructive efforts.
  7. Last night we had our first full swap.... and it was ok. We were sitting and drinking alone when the other couple approached us. The other wife was the type of personality(big) my wife likes, so she quickly felt comfortable. She was really into my wife, too. My wife has always said she is slightly interested in what it would be like with another girl (especially after having a few), and the other wife really liked the softness of girls. We talked for a while and they went out for a smoke. My wife let me know then that she was OK swapping with them. I was a little apprehensive considering we'd never swapped before. I tried to gauge whether it was the alcohol or if she REALLY wanted it. After tossing it back and forth in my head I said I was game. She wasn't exactly my flavor, but like my wife, she was fun, and I was willing to give it a go. They came back and we all went upstairs. It started out with the girls playing. Then he and my wife went at it while she and I got going on a separate bed. They were experience in the lifestyle, so he had no problems. I, unfortunately, had the dreaded first time performance problems. From all the reading I've done, I'm not shocked. Earlier, he remarked that he had problems the first couple times. After a while, we switched back to our partners to finish the girls off. So what did we think? I'd compare it to losing your virginity. It's somewhat of a let down because of all the excitement around it. The sex (or attempt at) was somewhat mechanical. Neither of us had any jealously issues. It was an experience. It wasn't life changing, but it wasn't really a disappointment. My wife did have trouble sleeping. She usually has trouble after drinking (heartburn), but she's having STD fears too. We used condoms, but they don't matter THAT much. Besides, rational thinking doesn't always combat irrational fears. She had to go to work today so she's fighting lack of sleep and STD anxiety. I wish she could have stayed home for a nice simple day. What does this mean for our future? We're both uncertain if the STD fears will go away. The local club we go to also only holds events the night before my wife works, and my wife needs her sleep. Now that the fantasy has hit reality, it might not be enough of a pull to get her out. I also feel I'd like to be more connected with the other couple than we're going to get at a club. It's only the next day, so I can't make an accurate prediction, but at least, I think we won't be rushing out again. Depending on how the STD fears go, we will still probably do it again some time.
  8. Nothing much has changed since my last post. I asked my wife to end it. According to him and her, that has been the case. I still get suspicious once in a while, but for the most part, things are back how they were before this all started. I still have lingering trust and fears about it, but I trust *her* enough that I haven't lost it. He and I haven't talked much, and he completely avoids the topic. At the same time, he's been more conversant with my wife than in the past. I'm not sure what to make of this, but again, I'm trusting her. In hindsight, I should have reacted more aggressively(?) to his advances instead of running with the fantasy (him cheating "in spirit" with his girlfriend, making advances on my wife without talking to me, being completely closed to a threesome). I should have spotted the completely selfish behavior and reacted. However, it's hard bring it up after the fact. I guess I'm a little slow. I have no plans of kicking him out, although I think I could possibly be happier in that case. I guess I haven't decided if the confrontation is worth it. After putting an end to it, we did attend our first club a couple weeks later(we just played with each other). We plan to go again this weekend.
  9. My wife and I are still newbies, and we both get very nervous about this topic. One thought that has kept us from turning back is: How would it be different if we were single? If either of us were single, we'd be playing the same odds. With each partner you take a new risk no matter your intentions or precautions, so what's the difference? You're either sexually promiscuous and take your chances or stay celibate/monogamous. We don't plan on being bed notchers, but beyond that, you're somewhat in the game with all the risks, or you sit out.
  10. That's somewhat what I had in mind. It was something I believe in rationally, but my emotions just weren't cooperating. Maybe I'll get there some day, but it was just too big of a leap for our first venture. We both thought it'd be easier because it was with someone we trust more than a stranger. However, my trust just didn't go far enough. Yes. Thank you for sharing the story. I may not be searching for "normal", but it's always nice to know you're not alone in a situation. I think we're going to be ok. We've had a couple little follow-up talks and there will be more. I still get little random jitters but nothing like it was before "the talk". We discussed the dropping of details, and I believe her in that it's an honest mistake. I was in a state of heightened suspicion, so what she saw as harmless flirting looked like plotting and planning to me. There's often some raunchy flirting that goes on, but it's seen in a much different light when the talk is a possible reality.
  11. Believe me, it occurred to me. However, that's almost as devastating to her if she's innocent and found out I trust her so little. He did whip it out, but we invited it in with our talk. She said, that he said, that it's only if it's ok with me. The problem is that I don't know if he said that after she told him that's the situation (sorry, difficult to word). The sexual sharing isn't the problem. The fact that I'm on the outside and left to wonder is the problem. That only invited suspicion and jealousy.
  12. One other thing, my wife was fine with kicking people out if that's what it comes to. When I said "Kicking people out would break my wife's heart", that only applies to her sister. She'd live with that too, though, if I demanded it. I realize conflating the two parties gives the wrong impression. I also gave the wrong impression on my wife's comfort with my friend. From what she says, and I'd probably agree, that they're not *that* comfortable. He's still more my friend than hers, even though they get along. She still is uncertain around him vs the ease she talks to me. My fears we're probably coming through in text. However, in a sexual in-house relationship, how long would that be true? All the more reason to stop.
  13. I think what everyone is missing is that we sort of brought this on ourselves. We openly talked about swinging in front of him. That gave him a legitimate opening. She and I screwed up in not realizing that we're talking about more than sex because he lives with us. We only saw the sexual freedom when making decisions. I don't believe she's been fucking him the whole time. I think it's a matter of we created a situation and found ourselves in predictable results.
  14. Ok... I spent Sunday stewing about it and told my wife it stops. I was only going to get more pissed, and I'm allowed to change my mind at any point. I figured if the situation was reversed, I'd put it back in my pants, so can she. After 9 years of marriage, I'm willing to gamble that I can trust her. I think I know her that much. As much as I think she drops details, I don't think she's doing it maliciously, as a conspiracy. Besides, if she wanted to outright cheat, why tell me at all? She could have kept me clueless for the last 7 years. I trust her that she's shared the major details even if our opinions on what is important may sometimes differ. Her reaction was actually of relief. She witnessed my reaction over the last week, and said it was upsetting her too. She said she was also having a little problem with the fact that he lived here. It turns every situation into a "date" situation where you're always wondering what they're thinking. The tension wasn't worth the brief excitement. She apologized for her reaction when we previously had discussed "rules". It's easier to deal with a straight up or down than trying to worry about when you are "in bounds" or "out of bounds". Her was reaction a mix of disappointment and confusion at that time. However, she thinks the stress of transitioning from fantasy to reality quelled the disappointment. Yes, he's staying around, and no, I have not talked to him about it. I don't give a crap about his opinion, and I trust my wife to be able to tell him "no, thanks." I trust him, just like before, that he won't force her against her will. Don't take one for the team. Make friends of swingers not swingers of friends. Don't swing with neighbors....... Yes, we fucked up. I think it's going to be ok, though. Then again, maybe I'll be blissfully unaware. Either way, we feel better, and I think I can trust her.
  15. That fear hits me too, but my trust hasn't slid that far. I think she's leaving out details but not that badly. I humbly disagree. However, my situation says you're right.
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