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chinadoll

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  1. looks like i got ahead of myself and posted to soon...here is the rest.... to the last quote... I am wondering if maybe I see him this way also. Still trying to decide. QUOTE: "you doesn't seem to figure out how to negotiate your relationship with your husband)." If I am understanding this statement correctly...I think I try to negotiate or compromise...not feeling like there is effort on him part though. The more I look at all this, the worse it is starting to look. QUOTE:" I strongly believe that you reached to a point where you're unable to heal yourself by means of the ways you used to heal yourself before, and that you need help, a help you're asking for in this forum, but as MrsOtawaCouple said, we're not trained proffesionals able to provide you the help you're looking for." You may be very right about this also. It does seem that the ways in which I used to use to heal before aren't working here. I am learning that just by talking and getting others perspectives, that it helps me to think and really look at things. This is giving me answers. I know very well that you all are not professionals, but different perspectives seem to be helping. Then what I can do with the questions and thoughts I have come up with, is go through them with my therapist. I wouldn't say that you are adding to the noise or confusing me more at all. Like I have mentioned, it helps to have someone to talk with and get different opinions from. I think what I need most though, is to feel like I know that whole truth no matter how it hurts. When I feel that I do, then I can begin to move on comfortably. Thank you all again for all your thoughts.
  2. Thank you again all for the input. Sereneiders.... I'm not sure how you managed to understand all that you have from only what I have typed, but somehow, you really got under the surface of things about me. Many things you mentioned are very true and some I didn't even realize myself until reading your last post here. I am planning to sit down and really evaluate some of the questions that came to mind after this post. Not all of it is entirely correct, but many things are. It really amazes me that you were able to see as much as you have about me. I want to thank you. It had brought some things to light and really made me think. You know, take a real long hard look at some things. Yes...I am absolutely going in circles...I would like to put a stop to that and feel some sort of consistancy. Not sure how to do that though. It seems to me that before I can move forward, I need to FEEL like I know the truth about the whole situation. QUOTE: "it just seemed to me that you're unsure about how much you can rely on your husband, and in the other hand you feel yourself trapped in such a way that any movement you may do could geopardize your marriage even more, so basically it seems you're paralized here, and the lack of alternatives leaves you sitting there only with your hope." Yes...I am unsure on how much I can rely on hubby...all of what you said here is true. I think I knew this, but wasn't so totally aware of it until it was mentioned here. QUOTE: "the words you choose to use and the ones you choose not to use. Just from the arrangement of your posts, it seems to me you're trying to think about this while needing to wind up, sometimes you have the cold blood to think, some others it seems you're overwhelmed by fears, some others you express your feelings as they come while you're typing. There is nothing wrong with this, but I think you need to find a place where to stay and gather the energy to break this circle. This place could be your feelings, your fears or your cold blood, but it seems you keep spending your energy by jumping from a place to the next." Again, correct. This is something that maybe I am more aware of now, just still unsure of what to do about it. I am open to all suggestions though, with the complete understanding that you nor anyone else is a professional. QUOTE: "One of the things that calls my attention along all your posts is the way you're protecting your husband from your feelings, something that you peg with protecting your marriage" Not sure on this. I don't think I am protecting him from my feelings about the situation, but I think it may be possible that I am not sharing ALL of the feelings in general that I am having. To be honest, I think it is less of a matter of protecting and more of feeling like he may not care or that it may set the ball rolling for seperation. Yes, I am worried about seperating and divorce, I love him and had intentions of spending the rest of my life with him. It's not that I don't want to be alone, I don't want to be without HIM. QUOTE: "You admited he were unable to rely on him in the past (giving you certain degree of conficence about being unable to rely on him again today), you described him as selfish and careless about you, and even so you're still in love with him, so I have to supose that either 1) he give you some other things that you didn't told us about, or 2) that you love him BECAUSE of this, as if somewhere inside you, you were sure that you deserve to be treated this way." Right again for the MOST part. I think there could be many reasons that I am in love with him. This is where it gets tricky. You managed to make me think..."Why do I love my husband?" So far, I am only able to come up with things that I love ABOUT him. Is that the same thing? (this question also stems from the paragraph following the preceeding one.) QUOTE: "As if, by the time you knew him he turned into the White Knight that saved your life."
  3. sereneiders...trust and believe that there is NO part of me that is enjoying this. I was only typing out my feelings. A lot of people experience hope as an emotion. I don't feel there is anything wrong with that. I do agree that I need to place myself before anything...this is becoming very apparent to me. It seems I have a long road ahead of me regarding many things. I was simpling stating that my marriage was more important than the lifestyle... not that it was more important than myself. "so I ask... then, what is what makes this marriage so valuabe for you?" What makes this marriage valuable to me is love. However, asking this question has me thinking. For that I thank you. It is a perfectly legitamate question in light of this situation. "Or your fear of being unable to be alone and find out someone else wanting to be with someone as worthless as it seems you perceive yourself?" Could you explain this further? I'm not sure I understand this question. Yes...right now hope is what I have...at least it is something. While it may not actually pull any chariot, I have hope that when I finally feel strong enough to try and pull again along side my husband...that it will move and that the belts will not break. Forgive me if I don't follow the whole idea of pullings chariots. I don't always do well with that sort of analogy. Also, yes...I may not want to pull for fear of tearing the belts. Sometimes people get scared and they may not want to pull right away. Not everyone heals the same. I am a slow healer and until I feel ready to pull, I won't. I know that I will though. I am hoping...that is for certain..I don't however feel that I am complaining. I am sharing my situation with others in the lifestyle that have experience "hoping" that maybe others have some insight. It has helped immensely. I don't know what will become of my marriage...like i said, it will be a long road to repair...all I know is that we can work on it and I can "hope" for the best outcome possible, since at this point I don't know for sure what the outcome will be. This situation has taken a lot out of me. For some, it may not be a big deal, but it was to me. Maybe I am not as strong as others, I don't know. But I can tell you, I am not enjoying this one bit and I am ready to move on regardless of how scared I am.
  4. Yes LOL-OMG...I really wish he would have called or at least asked me if he could and have me there. I agree 100% that it would have maybe helped to repair some of the trust. As it stands, all it did was hurt me more and make make me feel that there was something more to the two of them. I thought about asking him to call with me there and maybe setting a time for the 3 or 4 of us to talk about it. But, how do I know if he told her yesterday that I knew only X amount of information regarding the two of them and that he has left out the rest? I wish I could think of some way that would help me to know that he has told me everything. I do think that hubby has seen some of this thread, not sure if he read it thoroughly and I don't think he has read the latest comments. I may direct him to it when I feel the time is right. Thank you for understanding and allowing me to pour my heart out.
  5. Well guys, I think this very much stems from a lack of communication as ANGEDKY and most of you say. I think there was an enormous level of excitement there for him. I know from past experience in daily life, that when he comes across something that he is really interested in, he dives into it full force and sometimes without thinking things through clearly. I think this was another one of those times. Even with talking about everything, he was so absorbed with the idea of the lifestyle, he didn't really think of how each action would hurt me or if it might at all. In most other situations where he dived in like he does, he never really thought much of me either. I think these kinds of things consume him too much!! Seems that when he gets an idea of something and wants it very bady, he becomes very selfish. Angedky...I think I was apprehensive about it all most because I was going through rough times in life anyway. I was dealing with so many things and hurting more cause hubby wasn't being supportive. Then the more interest I saw on his part in swinging, the worse it made me feel. When he would come home from work or from being out somewhere, the first thing he did was check email and our profile to see how many people have checked us out and who was online and so on. He spent a great deal of time checking these things out. Meanwhile, I was dealing with other problems and really needed him by my side and he wasn't there for me. I'm not sure he wanted to be brought down to where I was. He wanted to continue to feel the excitement of getting into the lifestyle. I beleive because of the way this made me feel, this is what made me take so much time in deciding on wether or not I wanted to meet the other couple. Hubby was seeing my disinterest, but not understanding why and decided to meet the other lady cause the hold that all of this had on him, was making him too impatient. As to the reason that I continue to hide how I found out....it's because I don't trust him yet. Not at all!! If I have to use this method again to help myself if I feel he is lying, I need it to be there for me. That may be wrong but I feel I need something on my side here. As for the timeline...I think it is pretty close...maybe a few little changes... talk in bed you say yes you join internet site (he sees this) he joins site (tells you) contact between the profiles emails and chats (tells you) assumption of your disinterest they want to meet (i dont think they are all that new) maybe he can nudge you foward (maybe at their urging==pushy couple??) he meets (doesnt tell you, ASSUMES your disinterest) you find out GAME Very close!! I am so greatful that you all are able to follow this and help. A few more things..... Quote from Mrs Lol_omg: "I would also say that if the hubby is getting into swinging in order to do this other woman, you'll find out in short order if you say "not this couple, lets find another.". I must say...this is a great idea!! At this point, not sure if I will be able to use this or not, but if I have the opportunity, I will do just that. Everything else you mentioned makes perfect sense to me and was the very same thing I told hubby in the beginning. Even after all this happened, I told him again. Sereneiders...You are correct in that I am under a lot of pressure. I am in many ways. Right again that I feel that I may lose him because of one reason or another. At this point, it is somewhat of a dissapointment for me too, to have to put my sexual fantasies on hold and if things aren't able to be repaired, then it would be permanently. However, my marriage is WAY more important, so I don't mind at all!! I feel also that swinging will not fix the marriage and I did consider continuing so that hubby would be happy and there would be less risk of losing him. But we all know that would end up worse for me in the end. It wasn't a very intelligent thought on my part. In light of more recent events revolving around this situation, I hope he is willing to put more effort into our relationship like he says he will. You are right once again, I can't pull it on my own and I have told him that also. I can only hope.... Vacplis4lovers....initially i didn't feel like he cheated...but there was a definate betrayal. To everything else, I agree completely. Now...something else has happened. I hate that events keep coming up around this situation. Seems that while I was at the doctor's office again yesterday, he called her again!! When I got home..which was shortly after he left for work, I had to make a call. Not trusting him still, I checked the last numbers called and there was her number!! I noticed this just as I was descending the stairs and I can't describe the feeling that came over me. When I took the next step, I feel down the stairs and hit my head and bruised my body a bit. It turns out I am ok, just a few bumps and a little cut. At the time I was worried cause vision was blurry and ankle hurting not to mention the way I felt inside. I called hubbys work and indicated an emergency (was scared he wouldn't be there after knowing he called her again) and he called back. I told him that I feel and he rushed home. To shorten this up...when he got here, he checked me out...I was fine...I asked him why in the hell he called her and demanded to know what was going on. He told me that he only called her to tell her that I knew about the meeting. For some reason, he felt he should let her know. I still don't understand this!! I guess in light of everything, he says he will do what ever it takes to make me trust him again and repair our marriage...but I have lost all faith. I have hope that we can, but no faith that we will be able to. He sounded so sincere telling me that he only called her to tell her that I knew. He said he was going to tell me when he got home from work that he did. I still can't really understand why he was concerned enough about her to call her to tell her that. Where was the concern for me? I can't understand why he had to do it when I wasn't here either. All of this seems fishy to me and makes me wonder again if something is or was going on. I asked him once if he would tell me if something WAS going on and he said he probably wouldn't. He also said yesterday that because of where this situation has come to, he felt at this point that he may lose me and that all of details and the full truth needs to come out if it hadn't already. He still claims everything he has told me so far is the truth and is not leaving anything out. So.... if there was something...I really can't believe him either way. *sighs* He told me repeatedly yesterday that it was all over (referring to swinging and the lifestyle) and he would go to therapy or do WHATEVER it took to repair my trust and love. I so hope this is true and that all of the details have come out. If I find out something else later...I don't know what I will do. Any advice on this new phone call would be great. I do have to apologize though...it seems that I have "spilled my guts" so to speak on everyone. This is a swingers forum and allthough it was a swinging related issue to start, it became more really. You guys probably didn't need to know ALL of my feelings and ALL of the details I have shared, but I got carried away typing. I actually feel some relief to have gotten some of this off my chest. Sorry if anyone feels I have shared to much, but thank you for allowing me too and for all of the wonderful advise and insight. Hope I didn't leave anyone out as far as my responses go too. I feel like I have made some new friends!! Thanks again all!! (((((((((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))))))) and hopefully this is the end of this situation.
  6. Jaybee...I have asked him how he would feel if he found out that I was seeing another man or met him behind his back. At first he told me that it wouldn't be a big deal, but actually admitted that he may be saying that to justify his own behavior. Then admitted that he would probably feel upset, but would get over it pretty quickly. I am not the type to just let things roll off easily. I so wish I had that ability. So no, I don't think he would like it, but he won't whole heartedly admit it. Ves...No, they aren't married. They have been together for about 5 years though from what i understand. From listening to them, I believe that. Now...that you have mentioned he may be her ticket? This could very well be. She has had very bad past relationships and this is the first "great" guy she has been involved with. She knows this and relayed this info to me. They acted like a couple for the most part. Hubby and I are usually touchy and feely...we make it a point to offer a love pat or some closeness a lot of the time. I didn't notice much touching or kissing or anything like that, but they seemed to be together. They told many stories about their travels and whatnot also. I believe they are a couple, just not for us. Something doesn't feel right. Swinging isn't too new to them. They say they have been a threesome one time, but it seems that in talking to them that one tells me that is all they have done and the other says they have been with another couple AND done the threesome. This is something else that makes me cautious. In any case, they seemed like nice people, but I don't really trust them so probably not a good idea to play with them. Now...when hubby came home last night...he tells me that he loves me and wants to work to get past this and be there for me and us. This is a good thing, but he also tells me that he wants to pursue swinging. I am not sure how to feel about that. I did tell him that I thought we should put it on hold, but he seemed so dissapointed by that. This worries me. I guess I might feel a little dissapointed also, but knowing I have him is enough for me. I have asked him if I am enough for him and claims that I am, but how do you really know? I am so worried that he had developed a little obsession with swinging. How do I tell? I wish I could express to you all how much you have helped me with this situation. I couldn't possibly thank you enough. (((((((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))))) Thanks Again
  7. Hi all. I just want to thank you once again for all your input. It is helping me so much and the more opinions and posts, the more it seems to help. Thank you all so much. I will try to answer the questions as best I can and shed some more light to hopefully get some further perspective. Ottawa...Hubby and I talked mostly of swinging in the bedroom during lovemaking. He was very interested in the idea of me being with another woman. I think we finally got to a point where he was interested in pursuing this, so we started looking at swinging together. I joined an email group while we were looking online one night and told him I was doing so. He was with me when I did it. A day or so later, he told me that he posted a profile on a site but didn't really tell me where and I didn't think to ask. I guess I was thinking that he joined another group like I did. When I did come across the profile he created, it was when i woke up one night from a nap (a week or so after the profile was created) he mentioned that he was talking to the man from the other couple and was just asking questions about the lifestyle. I was interested so I sat down and chatted with him a bit also. From the conversations that I have had since then (with the guy from the other couple), I feel pretty sure that the person I spoke to that night was him. But I have to admit, the profile was a bit of a surprise, even though he had mentioned it, I wasn't really aware that he was actively viewing other couples or chatting with them. I feel I need a bit of clarification on this with hubby now that you mention it. I'm not sure how long he was chatting with others when I came across hubby's conversation with the other guy. Sereneiders...I am not sure that I can even trust the other couple now to swing with. If she went behind my back, wouldn't she do it again? If she didn't do it again, I would always wonder and that wouldn't make it fun for me I don't think. As far as talking goes with hubby, I have tried so many approaches with him, and he always gets defensive and rather cold really when it comes to something he screws up on. He doesn't admit fault very well or take responsibility for actions very well. I will say that he has in this case it seems, but getting him to talk about something that is upsetting, is near impossible. Apex..I have told him that I am not comfortable with this couple now. He seemed to be dissapointed and had a defensive remark that I can't even remember now. I had to clarify for him one more time why I wasn't comfortable with them...because they both went behind my back and I have been hurt. Dayhiker...I have thought about your scenerio a lot. At this point, I still think it is a possibility that it could have happened that way, but I am leaning more toward it being a coinsidence. I hope so anyway. But even though I have met them and they seemed great, I still have to look at the fact that she was talking to him online, on the phone and in person behind my back as well as her bf's. I'm not so sure I want to be with someone like that. Hubby says that I never would have met them. He just knew that I didn't want to. So, since he had talked to her online a couple times, they decided to talk on the phone. Talking on the phone, they discussed meeting to put a face with the voice. I guess since hubby was thinking I never would have met them, wanted to meet her just to say hi. He still claims it was an innocent meeting. He says that their other conversations were also innocent with the exception of not telling me. One morning when I came down stairs to see what he was up to, he closed out of internet really quickly...I thought he was up to something. Turns out that he was talking to her. I asked him why he didn't tell me. He says "Cause I didn't want you to know". Now I ask myself, "what does that mean?" Going back a few sentences...where I mentioned he just "knew" that I didn't want to meet them...now that I think about it...if he "knew" that I didn't want to meet them, why would he make arrangements to go ahead and meet her? Does this show intention? Could it really just have been no more that curiosity? He says it was just curiosity. Evil...He had been rather cold talking about all this, but he has a tendancy to do that when he feels attacked. I try not to use words that would make him feel as such, but he still reacts as if he has been. I have given him a chance to give his story, I want to know hers now. I would like an opportunity to talk to her when she thinks I am hubby so that I can get a better feeling that hubby is telling me the truth about his story. It may seem mean, but at this point I am desperate and I tell you why. Hubby and I have had other issues in the past, most couples do at some point. We had a horrible fight back in October and we weren't sure then that we would make it together. My question to him then was "Are you willing to do whatever it takes to make our relationship work?" He was unsure at first, then decided he was. Things until now have been fine. Now that his lying has hurt me...he seems to think that leaving me may now be an option. He says that he doesn't want to hurt me anymore. Now that I think about this further, couldn't he be using this as an excuse to leave because he is in fact seeing her? *sighs* I am right now faced with being alone and left to wonder what decision my husband is coming to as far as leaving me goes. He says he loves me and always will, but he doesn't seem to be sure if he is willing to do whatever it takes to make our marriage work. He says he doesn't want to keep screwing up and hurting me and now he knows I will never trust him again. I tell him that if he puts in the effort, we can get past it. But again I have presented the same question as before and am waiting. Angedky...just in case hubby reads this post or comes across it, I would rather not mention how I found out. What matters is that I did. Your words of wisdom are wonderful. I am glad you mentioned to observe...I think I need to go back a little and recall some of his behavior. Kevin...you said "As far as swinging is concerned I could care less about it under those circumstances. My marriage would be top priority." I couldn't agree more. This is exactly how I am feeling. It seems that this situation has really blown into something much more than I thought. If he is now considering leaving so that he doesn't hurt me anymore, it is clear that our relationship needs work and swinging should be the least concern. I have a horrible problem with trusting others after they have lied to me. He has promised before not to lie to me again because he knows it hurts me so badly. This was a pretty bad lie as far as I am concerned. He admits he shouldn't have lied but at the same time doesn't think that a harmless and innocent meeting was such a big deal. So, at the time I am typing this response, I am wondering what hubby is thinking as far as whether or not he wants to quit this relationship. Funny thing about it...not only is it Valentine's Day...it is also 5 years to the day that he proposed marriage to me. I realize that this has become more of a relationship issue now than a swinging one, but it seems that swinging and his meeting with the other lady is what set all this in motion. If anyone has any comments, again...they are greatly appreciated. Btw...is there an award for "longest post ever" in this forum? =) Thanks again all, sorry if I left someone out and I know I went on maybe more than I should have, but it did seem to help to get this all out. *hugs* to all that want one. A couple other questions...should I pretend to be hubby and see if I can get any further info out of the other lady regarding their "time" together? Should I approach her as myself and ask? Should I tell her bf? Or should I just send an email and say that we aren't right for this? I don't really feel like she should get off scott free in her relationship...but I am really not the type to sabotage another's relationship. I wouldn't normally lie to get what I want either, but I want the whole truth here and I don't feel I am getting all of it. Thoughts?
  8. I want to talk to him badly Ottawa, but he isn't that talking type. If they were doing something before all of this, I don't know how I would find out. If I ask him, and he says no, which he already has, how can I believe him now that he has lied to me? I might be able to use lies to get him to tell me, but then I am just as bad as he is. I can't thank you all enough for replies, you have no idea how much it helps me.
  9. Concerning message from jnaswinging!! Sorry for the confusion all. I created my own profile for the site and the last post from jnaswinging, was me. I guess it was set to remember the name we have together and I didn't want to use that one. Hope I didn't confuse anyone.
  10. Yes, it has left me wondering about a possible affair of some kind. Our profile was created at the same time as theirs on the swingers site. I have never had to go through this in a relationship. Why do I feel in a sense that even if they only met once, that he cheated? Also, I don't think her husband knows. Should I tell him? Should I have my hubby tell the other lady that I know? I did like the couple...should we still be friends? As you can see...I have so many questions. I am a bit lost. Thanks again for the replies.
  11. Thanks for the reply Miss Piggy, love the name also. I agree. What also seems strange is that at the same time we created our profile on our first swingers site...the other couple did also within a day or two. He says that it was a coinsidence, but how can I believe him. If we had decided to go at this all together, why should he have gone behind my back and met her without me knowing? Was it wrong or am I getting to upset over something small?
  12. Hi all. I just wanted to say that I am so happy I found this board. It has been a huge help. I do have a problem I am sorry to say, and I need some advice....We are new to swinging (I am the female in the marriage)...very new and had only talked to one couple online a few times and over the phone. We agreed to meet them last night, and I liked them and so did my other half. I found out yesterday before we went to meet them though, that my hubby went behind my back, and has talked to the female of the other couple over the phone a few times, online, and they met in person!! He says they didn't do anything, he just wanted to put a face with the name and voice. He met her on this last Friday... then we just went and met them as a couple last night (which was Sunday). I went through with meeting them last night knowing that hubby had already met her (the other lady) and I was so mad that I was going to blow it all out of the water at our meeting. Then I thought better of it. Then, as it turned out, I actually like the other couple. So, needless to say, I feel hurt and betrayed to say the least. After the other couple left last night, I approached hubby about the situation while still at the bar, and we talked about it. I started the conversation with..."Do you have something you want to tell me about you and (other lady)?" He denied at first...then admitted. I guess he met her while I was at the doctor's office. He could have been with me on that day for support instead. He must have called her the immediately after I walked out the door. I still have questions for him, but I have a problem now believing anything he says. I have trust issues with people after they lie to me. So, any thoughts on what to do here? All advise is greatly appreciated as I am really in agony here.
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