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Tempest419

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About Tempest419

  • Rank
    Active Contributor
  • Birthday 02/12/1974

Personal Info

  • Relationship Status
    Married
  • Location
    Louisville, KY
  • Occupation
    Marketer
  • Swinging Experience
    4 months

Swinger Info

  • SLS Name
    Tempest419
  1. As a "former swinger" (for 3 months) who was here last year and not greeted with much ado or information about the crossover between poly and swinging, I find this thread ironic but inevitable. I identified very much with the idea of having more than casual sex, yet not having someone replacing me in my husband's eyes. I think there are a lot of women who feel that way. Casual sex with people I don't care much about never appealed to me and I think this poll and thread show that many others have a similar attitude... I said back then and still maintain that the best sex is always with someone with whom you are familiar and comfortable... otherwise, sex with our spouses wouldn't still be tops despite swinging, right? Any discerning adult will be able to tell the difference and not be confused about having this as a topic here. Quite frankly I would've felt much more welcome and not so weird if this topic had at least been recognized and covered. It really felt like I was getting the shaft (no pun intended) from both sides of the fence b/c I didn't completely fit into either. It is never any fun to feel as the "odd (wo)man out"! My vote is yes, please add it somewhere to the boards. There is no such thing as too much information.
  2. Hi John... boy did I recognize your emotions in your first post! You may want to read some of the things I've struggled with during our own little sojourn through this lifestyle. I don't hang around as much anymore b/c I'm not in the lifestyle, I just sort of pop in every now and again to see if 1) I can learn anything new, or 2) I can offer a little sympathy and advice to anyone else who is having difficulty. You've gotten a lot of good advice, but mostly from folks for whom swinging is the ideal. Thought you might appreciate a word or two from someone with your perspective Your posts lead me to wonder if she has been to the boards and read up on this herself? It seems to me you're the only one looking at all the possible repercussions and that is scary in itself. And something that you said really screamed at me: You are absolutely right. I would give my left pinky toe to have a husband with your attitude about swinging. There is a deep scar on my heart for his attitude that I'm not sure when will heal. There ARE women out there who would appreciate the dedication and monogamy that you have to offer. Everything, EVERYTHING, is relative to where you are standing. My husband's best friend complains he only gets lollipop blowjobs and sex on a conception schedule. I looked at him and reminded him sometimes we just don't appreciate what we have. And you know what? Some people are just never happy no matter what they have. For some it's just never enough. You can break your friggin' back for bending so much and they're still not satisified. In my spouse's case, because it really wasn't about the sex, it was about stroking his ego. IMHO, monogamy is a gift in and of itself, too... whether or not it's what you really wanted under the Christmas tree is the question. So don't sell yourself out. For anyone, not even her. I am not telling you this lightly, as we have been living together 13 years next month and have a 3 year old. When there is a lot at stake (and you have 3 children) and you're so used to compromising and making things work, it's real easy to compromise on this one. I wish I'd stuck to my original response of, "If you need sex with other people then you don't need to be married to me." The first reaction is usually the correct one. If you can't come to an understanding, if she doesn't understand how much this obviously hurts you, if she just can't let it go... then let HER go b/c you are right, you don't really want the same things. Let HER explain to your kids why Mommy needs to go her own way. When she has to explain herself to the innocent people in her life, maybe she'll get some perspective. If you're in your right mind, the shine of random sex fades when pitted against the happiness and well-being of your family. All my best wishes to you, and don't you dare drag yourself into the mud with revenge. You're obviously better than that. Keep your integrity. Sincerely, Tempest
  3. Sereneiders: I do not mind you hijacking the thread, I enjoyed your posts very much! I was impressed with your insights and yes, I do have insight into where and why. Ms. Hot: "After reading lots and lots of posts and especially this post, I asked myself a question... would I be in this lifestyle if I wasn't with my man? I think that's a really important question...." ] -that is all I could hope for by posting. I'm not proposing everyone's answer, I just want to pose that question. Intuition: Very much to the heart of the post, I thought, was my willingness to fool myself.... to "talk myself out of" or into, certain emotions. JnCC: You have keen insight. I wasn't able to get online all weekend and when I came back and re-read, I realized how much of my heart was in it, but I think you saw that . Thanks to everyone who was so kind about it, I was really afraid to post my thoughts... probably b/c I knew a few barbs were gonna get thrown. But if one of my friends came to me and said, "I'm thinking about swinging, what was your experience?" Well I hope that I could share my thoughts. (So does this make ya'll friends? ) These were my conclusions. It's not my bag. It's funny that Intuition referred to it being a gift between she and her spouse... well, that's also an apt analogy for me too, except my husband has many years history of picking out items he would like to receive himself, or thinks I should like... not putting himself in my position and finding out what I would actually want. I don't know how many times I've been on the receiving end of a gift I didn't ask for, nor did I like. And no matter how many times someone says it's entirely about (mis)communication... I am on the other end. Even beyond swingers, I worry about a country at large that can be so easily duped with the subtleties of language. Sometimes truths are painful no matter the semantics or how pc-dotted the language is, and maybe we should be okay with sitting on that for a moment. You can put a bright, pretty bow on a turd and it's still a piece of shit at the end of the day... Nice title... still bullshit. There are some manipulative people in the world, shockingly so. It's in you. It's in me. Those who claim to not have any "demons" are usually the ones who have the most obvious ones! The light cannot exist without the dark, it just can't. The hope is that we'll all find a nice compromise in the middle. It was difficult to express my dissatisfaction and issues with the lifestyle without stepping on the toes of those for whom it is good... perhaps that can't be done. I tried, out of respect. Each couple's dynamic is particular to them and they must navigate it the best they know how. I have vanilla friends for whom this lifestyle might work out great but who would never do it for religious/socio reasons, which is the opposite of me: I have no problem bucking social/religious dogma, but you shouldn't do it for the sake of doing it, for me it should be a cause close to my heart, something I really want. And it's not like Husband had his bags packed "or else," it was more of an emotional insecurity that I tried to negotiate against my inner jugdement. Being victim doesn't accomplish anything, healing requires that painful, epiphanic moment when you realize where you betrayed yourself at some level. I hope that duality is implied, as I had my own curiosities and fantasies to explore. I'm definitely into the exhibitionism/voyeurism part of it, and someday, still could be. I like watching and being watched, but I'm not sure how much room there is for that if you're not practicing an open relationship, so who knows? but if I am welcome here I could certainly stick around This might be interesting to add--the aftershocks aren't even entirely in my marriage. I have felt like this goes way beyond my marriage, and into me as an individual. In early February, my much older friend for whom I've been working since last summer, knowing I'd been having a hard time in my marriage after practicing an open relationship for a while (no details), started subtley coming on to me in the workplace. I would politely step away from his arm on my shoulder, or not respond and change the subject with certain innuendos... til finally one day he decides to thank me for a good job in sales by grabbing either side of my face and kissing me on the lips! No tongue, but still... it was a shock. He was very apologetic but the fact is, I just couldn't be comfortable there anymore, and I never went back. The bigger lesson for me was that while I'd had fun, I had also been "invaded" several times in this lifestyle, unasked... at the club, at home, and now at my work place, and I had to go to a place of licking my wounds. I had to ask myself how I was "asking" for it. As Dave Chapelle accurately paralleled... "Ms., you may not be a whore, but you are wearing a whore's uniform!" (And no I didn't dress that way at work at all, it's just an attitude analogy...) Other women have been invaded in this lifestyle, too, much more violently than I, and while we all have it straight in our heads what we are doing, unfortunately society to large extent does not. A friend of mine was going through a break up at the same time and our mantra for the month became, "I am more than a pussy!" At the same time, I was just offered a better position at a non-profit... one door closes, and another opens. Doesn't mean the lessons aren't painful, and sometimes we need the impetus of strife to inspire us to new heights. I suppose I just want to be a lot more choosy "picking my battles." This May will be 13 years that we have been living together, and that's a long time. It's the number of the witch, of death, and the phoenix... and that's the point for me. The natural order of life on this planet is that everything goes through a death cycle before being reborn... witness Spring! Perhaps something needed to be completely dissolved to allow for new growth. With all of the well wishes... I'd be happy to pop back in. I wasn't sure how it would be received here. But sex is still an interesting subject, like I said, I enjoyed the exhibitionism and fantasy, and there are points where I think I made good decisions, too... but I am involved with my other hobbies heavily again so I don't have oodles of time. Thanks again to everyone so kind, you make me glad I came back to update. Tempest
  4. Hi folks... The Husband and I haven't been on a while, sorting things out and deciding where we needed to go next. We were swinging up until December and pretty active when complications evolved and we both stepped back to take a good look at things... and have since decided this is not the permanent road for us. Me probably more surely than the mister... he recently thought "Maybe we could do it again in a few years" as recently as mid-February... Grrrrr... so we are STILL having complications from this lifestyle, though working hard to get past some things and integrate its lessons. My biological clock is tickin' and my little one's turning three soon, and I've really wanted to expand our family but unfortunately, that's another thing on hold as we try and move out of the aftershocks of our experiences last Fall. Take heart, newbies! I have been so wanting to forget things that I wasn't going to come back... unfortunately I keep getting chased in my dreams so I think there's something I needed to come back and do. Closure, I suppose? I might reflect what some other woman is thinking, and I might be able to give a man insight into their wife's heart. Who knows. I do know that even though people experience very painful things with this lifestyle, they often just keep on going, turned on and probably not thinking right. So while there are many couples who apparently make swinging work for them, the advice here is great, the people here are supportive, and communication is an absolute MUST.... sometimes you can talk all damn day and you're just speaking Greek while they're in Chinese. You can translate all day... but something gets lost along the way. Men are from Mars and women are from Venus, right? What I've Learned: 1) Follow your gut. No negotiating. This is, as far as I'm concerned, the most important factor. My first and second reaction to Husband's prodding to look at this lifestyle were very negative, and came straight from my instincts, which, if you believe in the subconscious, indicates what are our deepest, truest feelings. By his third shot... I negotiated the idea. Yes, You Who Want To Swing have the right to nicely ask, and to gently suggest, and timidly quote... blah, blah, blah... we've all read the advice. But pressure is pressure by any other name. It was obviously boring at home for him, and I felt threatened, and more open to suggestion. It has also been accurately said here that feelings cannot be rationalized, and I'm in that camp. I have never been a shrinking violet, was always the "aggressor" in getting a date... even when swinging I was the lead. I speak up in meetings at work... that's the mask I wear to the world. I am fearless. And yes, the first two times he brought it up I gave him a predictably negative, emotional response. I guess he just thought I was so "tough" that I could handle it. But where there is a hard shell there is a soft bodied interior. I suppose he was just trying to wear me down or de-sensitize me or something, but I don't think Husband accurately determined how sensitive the ego is, and how much I'd be willing to sacrifice or do for my marriage when I felt truly threatened, emotionally threatened, however primitive or insecure that makes me. I love my husband. And I don't think he anticipated the changes that came with that, because as we went on, I got more comfortable with it while he was having a more and more difficult time with it--specifically, watching me. So guys, if you are the guy trying to convince your wife... you are best advised that there is something to be given up for every pleasure you attain. And you cannot anticipate them, neither one of you... I mean we are talking about sex, love and spouses--it's a veritable minefield. 2) As we got into things, even different situations... it began to lose its "shine." It really began to be like a drug. An addiction. We keep upping the ante, and looking for more. It was consuming our lives... it took over our hobbies. We were obsessed with sex! Tired and slacking at work. The positive is that we had a shared hobby that we were having fun with together.... well, you can accomplish that with racketball. We both agreed that you Are what you Do. And we both began asking ourselves, "What do I want to go to my grave saying I accomplished? That I f--ked a lot?" I guess one could say we could just slow it down and do it every once in a while... but we both found it takes a certain mindset that is hard to take on and off at will and that's why it becomes a "lifestyle." 3) We both found ourselves asking; When the door of possibility is open to sleep with other people, and suddenly the whole world becomes a playground... what makes me so special? The kids? The house? The laundry? Yes, the person who will clean up your puke and bring you soup when you're sick is priceless... but are they sexy? Is that whose pants you can't wait to get into, that you're working so hard to get into, on Saturday night? Shouldn't it be? I began to think about all the time and work and effort we were putting into swinging, time we were spending together, but ultimately I couldn't get away from the fact that it was so he could wet his willy somewhere else... how ironic is that? I felt like I was living in Bizarro world. As much as you are in it together, there is still the goal of at some point getting it on with OTHERS (and yes sometimes I was as excited about the other people, too), and I just really wondered how great our relationship would be if we spent that effort on each other, exclusively, instead. 4) This lifestyle is very much connected to earthly pleasures... the ego. It is very much about power... shared power, relented control, taking control-- how you share it in a partnership... and of course I have always been fascinated by the subject of power, and what it means to really have it truly, personally. I gained a lot of satisfaction from putting on the Venus role for a while. What woman doesn't want to be Venus, even for a while? And guys too... come on, who doesn't want to be Eros, or Mars? (sorry, I'm an archetypist!) Becoming a swinger is like big ole bottle of Insta-Sex Star... as others have surmised even here, it's like being yours or your spouse's personal porn star. It was a potent elixir... it made me feel powerful. But when I really looked at things, it wasn't where I wanted to be powerful. Again, going back to archetypes and my goddess shit... at the end of the day, I want to be Penelope, not Circe; Demeter, not Aphrodite (though husband insists she is part of my make-up . Venus is, after all, the Pantheon representative of infidelity, and venereal disease. In my heart, there is something to Virtue and Value and being the Only One that appeals to me. In guy language... I'd rather be a proudly owned Mercedes than a Beamer rental any day of the week. You can take the girl out of the South... but you can't take the Southern Belle outta the girl. My pussy is regal and you're lucky to get past the front door. 5) As far as the moral in sharing... I share a lot of things. I share my time with people I like, I watch my friends' kids, I give my hands in donation to a local environmental cause, and when there's a smoking circle going down, I'm happy to share my stash. But sharing my husband? How much are we really asking, here? I remember hearing a quote once that went, "You can go one place with a hundred people, or a hundred places with one person." And you make a choice about that. Well, I didn't have any delusions the day I married about making this person the One. In a very base way, it broke my heart for him to ask to be with others... just the suggestion. Just the truly desired thought on his part. The act for me, then, could never really be destroyed until I went to meet it. And generally... my preferences in life, something I conveniently thought I could change or rationalize, has always, always been depth of experience, not breadth. On a trip through Europe with friends five years ago, I was the person (and Husband) who chose to spend nine days in Amsterdam soaking up the city, seeing the Van Gogh and the Anne Frank house and sailing the canals, while my friends hopped through four different cities, losing luggage, getting kicked out of cabs and generally having an otherwise shitty time. Quality over quantity, I will choose it every time. The moral being, please look at the overall fabric of your life before going down this path. We both kept finding that the best sex was *always* with each other... so what were we looking for? 6) There are things in this lifestyle that hurt, pure and simple. One of the main problems is jealousy... hurt... pain... and those who struggle with it--it comes up over and over again. I did, my husband did with me. Yet, even as I pored over all the threads of this site last fall, I couldn't help but wonder.... why? Why keep on? And, as literary as she usually isn't... a lyric by Madonna popped into my head; "Pain is a warning that something's wrong." And I know that what I did, and maybe what other women *might* be inclined to do... is numb yourself. To talk yourself down out of that emotion. It may be right for some people, or maybe those two are more easily extricated for others... but separating love and sex to such an extent and degree that you just don't even care anymore... well, it bothered me. And look... pain is a warning to take your friggin' hand out of the fire. Without that feedback... you can really hurt yourself. And this lifestyle is, as many have said, "Purification by Fire." 7) Religion... well I am a pagan but I have a big thing for Mary Magdalene, having grown up as a child of the Christian Church (and I bring this up b/c there are threads here of how people see swinging spiritually) and finally coming back around to her story, being so popular in culture right now. Strong, intelligent, Christian women identify a lot with Mary M. these days because she adds the Sexual element to the Holy. I got away from the Holy part. While I don't see swinging or open marriage as something I would ever advocate, I am not going to stop anyone for whom it works. All I want is the room to live my archetype. And I have been trying so hard to re-claim both the archetypal "Whore" and "Mother" in one being, in my own home, in my life... that I forgot the core of a few things about Mary M.... she was never really a whore, and when she was, it was to one, very special man. 'Nuff said Sincerely, Tempest
  5. One thing I might add... I think going into this, since my interests were originally in bi-women, he was perhaps not prepared for the interest I have developed in being more sexually involved with men. I have really enjoyed being in the MFM with our friend and since the things with my friend, my interest in bi-women has waned a bit and my interest in other men has increased.
  6. I do know what you mean about the communication gaps... hopefully the Mr. will be on here to clarify his feelings on things a bit. We've had some good conversatiosn on things and clarified a lot. I think I assimilated the experience emotionally/mentally a little faster. One thing is that he kept reminding me that there were issues we both had sexually with my gf that we were both expressing before this communication/poly/mishap thing happened. There's a lot there, but suffice it to say that while it was fun and comfortable and thrilling in it's own way... the bottom line is we would like to be in bed with someone who show a little more interest and enthusiasm. In less than two months of experiences with her, we both looked up to catch her watching television over her shoulder. How sexy, eh? Tho when we asked she always said things were fine. We had begun to chalk it up to incompatible sexual styles when this happened, and it was the Mr. who kept reminding me there were other women in the world. Flash to current... on Christmas Eve, I almost got on the boards and posted an update then. We invited my bf over, we hadn't seen her much lately and her mother didn't come back into town for the Holiday. She hasn't been seeing the last guy anyway b/c they had a bit of a disagreement, and had lamented being really turned on and no where to go. So while I'm on the phone inviting her, in broad daylight while we're shopping, he says to tell her "we bought 3 bottles of Beujolais" (newsflash: that's what we always drank when we got together for a threesome) and my ears perked a little, but I told her anyway.... later that night after she calls and gives us an arrival time, I asked him about his comment. He came around to saying that he wasn't "necessarily opposed" to sleeping with her that night... I said you want to wet YOUR noodle, then, and he said "no, I want you to want to sleep with her," at which point--okay NOW I'm confused--but I entertain the thought and see where he's going and ask, "Why?" He said something to the effect that he wished I could've been cooler about it with her, that he misses her, etc. Now, flashing back to our bedroom issues with her in the first place, I say (thanks, Vespertine) "So I should just ignore my feelings and be an orgasm donor for her?" Of course, he said NO and that ended that... sort of. Also, he bought us a membership to SLS for Christmas, so I think I have some room to be confused and thinking that he does want to still pursue this.... but when I bring up rather tame ideas, he just turns them down and yes, I'm a little bored with the vanilla sex. And I observe I'm getting mixed signals.. and people can say anything that the want, but when it comes right down to it, any old wise person or good psychologist will tell you to observe what someone does, not what they say, especially if the are incongruous. And to be honest, like I projected my feelings of poly onto her, perhaps he has been projecting his "How could I not have know what you felt about her" onto me when perhaps it's him who is feeling more for her. And he pointed out the thread on the boards that linked hormones and emotions, and the idea that the longer you have sex with someone, the more you'll feel for them... and that makes him trepidatious. I have again said well I did let you spend alone time with her, I was open to poly, so were you beginning to have deeper feelings than maybe you told me? He says that's ridiculous. Phew! Hope that helps...
  7. Hi everyone~ thought I'd give an update to things... after the break up of the sexual relations with my bf, things have been rocky for a few weeks. I mentioned in the other thread I started on that issue that the Husband has been feeling out of sorts with himself, and confused I think, about our involvement in the lifestyle. As for the friend, long story short, she and I are working things out as friends rather well, considering, and I'm blessed I was able to know our long-term friendship would survive no matter what happened in that sexual arena of our lives. She is joined by our son, whom she loves and he is very attached to, and we are picking up the pieces and finding we still have so much else to talk about it's becoming less and less of a big deal as time goes by. I am generally feeling good with everything... I pretty much went into it with the attitude that I am a big girl who can enjoy fantasies and I don't make a habit of regretting things. I like to think that I like who I am and every experience makes me that person, and even if it turns out different than you expected (which is bound to happen) there's always something to learn. So... I am still turned on by the idea of the open relationship as long as we're together. I would like to entertain the idea of another couple if we could find one, but he is REALLY turned off by all this. He keeps likening it to some bad crab legs he ate when he was a kid... they were bad and he didn't know it... all he remembers is that it tasted great going down, but he sure felt like hell the whole next day, And I'm going... was it really that bad? I've even suggested some libido pumping supplements, but alas, I think he likes his mood. Anyway... I asked him to at least entertain the idea of going to the club for exhibitionism and voyeurism purposes, which is still a big turn-on for me and was for both of us at the beginning, so that I can fulfill that "kink" in my nature... I even suggested web-camming with other couples on the internet which is relatively "safe" and he was reticent about that. To be honest.... we are at a stand-still because of some mental/emotional blocks that we can't seem to get to the bottom of, so he's feeling a bit deflated while I'm turn-on at the drop of a hat and raring to go To me, a lot of ice has been broken and I think under the right circumstances with the right couple, some exciting things could happen. I think Mr Tempest (Seriously) will agree I made some rational arguments about not shutting the door on the whole thing, and I'm hoping this is a passing mood and with patience he'll come around and be the hot number he was all up until the "break-up." I keep reminding him how, a few months ago, I kept asking over and over-- "Are you sure you want to open this door? Because I hear the ladies really end up liking it." (courtesy of these boards, of course, ) So... does anyone have any encouraging words to share in our predicament?
  8. I always wonder why men only measure the length... can't someone start a poll on girth? Now that would be a yummy, interesting thread...
  9. LOVE the dirty talk... however it's also a very fine line between what I like and what will incite a "WTF?!" I'm with the other ladies who said bitch/cunt/whore, etc. generally does not do anything for me. There's a whole other range of dirty talk if you're creative... and mental stimulation is always the most erotic. Happy to talk dirty, too, tho I'm not sure Husband's into that
  10. Depression as it runs in the women in my family... in particular my sister is manic-depressive. My grandmother, depressed for twenty+ years. I have had mild to moderate depression over the years. It is very misunderstood, and to be fair it doesn't sound like you have a lot of sympathy for this person! Your friend is likely not trying to absolve herself of her responsibility, she is simply not aware of her patterns. Mood and hormones are inextricably locked, and who knows why one person does really well in the serotonin & dopamine dept, while others do not? My husband's family have big thighs... I don't. Genetics play a role in everything about you... And while I don't argue that it is possible to contact and take the reigns of your subconscious and therefore control the involuntary responses of your body (it's been done)... it takes many years of meditative practice. Telling yourself something doesn't change it or make it so, it's just a start. Just b/c you know something doesn't mean you'll act on it. For instance... you know you're attracted to these guys with interlocking body parts, you know it's a little strange (even you're confused by it) and yet, can you explain it? If you can't explain it... perhaps it's your hormones and/or subconscious! I bet your friend has all kinds of skeletons in the closet (sexual abuse, etc) that you may not know about. I feel sorry for her... she does not intend to hurt herself all the time, I doubt it is self-induced, and it doesn't appear anyone has ever tried to help her find some self-help tools. I would venture to guess... does she also have a big ego? Yep... that can also be a symptom. I might even guess she is manic-depressive since she goes through highs with the guys. The problem with depression is that it doesn't necessarily show itself like those commercials where you're sobbing all the time and can't drag yourself out of bed... that's more clinical. Mine showed itself in excessive anxiety, insomnia, etc. It can come out in risky behavior... it is also very likely for people with low serotonin & dopamine levels to seek out situations that will raise these hormones... perhaps just by being swingers you might have low levels of these hormones! Okay sorry for the part from topic... but I hope that if anyone remembers anything important about depression is is that depression is anger turned inward. Also, I think some of the folks who responded missed the point, which was that repeated sexual activity or long-term partners will likely lead to emotions, that is linked to all those yummy hormone highs they keep giving you. For those of you who haven't gotten attached, how long did you keep the same partners? My guess is that the smart, trained swingers are switching partners regularly. PS... Prolactin is also instrumental in milk production. I have always had a high prolactin count. And right on Kitty.... as a general rule, sex with a stranger might as well be a masturbation session at home... at least I know I'll have an orgasm,
  11. We have a 2&1/2 year old son who also hates to wear clothes... he has been known to get to a friend's house and strip down shortly there after, LOL I think it's our natural state to be nude... anyone who's had babies will observe that we hate those itchy, structured things called clothes right from the get-go. I went naked in front of my son in transitions, from changing clothes to bathing, that is normal. I think most parents find it's by necessity... you just don't get any alone time! Just in the last year he has begun to notice my body and I do find myself a little self-conscious... but alas I don't have much choice... he is still bursting into the bathroom whenever he feels like it. He still usually plays in the bathwater while I'm bathing... not sure when all this will end but as of yet, we have not taught him to be self-conscious, and while I don't parade in front of him, I don't shy away if it happens, either. When it's warm weather out, he does not have to wear anything more than underwear if he wants and it's been that way since he was a baby, so it's fairly normal for him. I also remember seeing both my parents naked by accident at some point, Mom was more comfortable than Dad with the girls, but as a rule they weren't into the nudity thing. We aren't nudists either but do want to teach our son not to be ashamed of his body. For what it's worth... I agree that it's ridiculous to have a congressional hearing over a boob popping out, for fear it damaged some young or otherwise sensitive person eternally... and yet we let them watch random violence and murder w/o the blink of an eye! Sincerely, ~T
  12. 538 Wow! You're too kinky for most!!! Well good to know we aren't closet conservatives, LOL Tempest & Seriously
  13. 501 to 600 Wow! You're too kinky for most!!! Well good to know we are closet conservatives, LOL Tempest & Seriously
  14. Yes we discussed polyamory. I sent them both web sites and information about it, and we all talked about it more than once. It was never a confusion that she would be dating and pursuing her own family at some point soon... though we did joke that if she wasn't married at 36, maybe she could marry us??? It's not full poly in that we don't share an entire household and children... we are bound by love... she does, or did, spend the night 2-3 nights per week, every week, and helped me out at various times with the watching our son, and she always brought groceries (???... do groceries mean "polyamory"???... :rollseyes ) and she was even our child's godmother. She is the third primary adult in his LIFE. In fact... the first night we spent, emotions and excitement were aided by our discussion of polyamory relationships, possibilities for her new relationships, and the fact that we loved her and gave her godship that night. She in turn, did not want me or us to have sex with other women. I feel like I got taken on an emotional high, and now the responsibility is too much. I *thought* I was clear when I said I loved this person, and that everyone believed me. Now even Husband somehow feels betrayed by my strong feelings for her... talk about being between a rock and a hard place... It's been a really crappy week... ~T
  15. I didn't think of that, but maybe you're right... when we were vanilla friends for years I felt protective of her due to a couple of failed romances she incurred. Maybe you're right in that now it's morphed into a blurry line. I think it is also difficult for me b/c for this time, she has been attached to me closely for a while, telling me how I was the number one person/relationship in her life (which for a time, was true), how she had *never, ever* come with a man like she had me (an ego boost?) and yet.... when I was met yesterday morning with the news that she not only has a new sex partner, but also said; "I thought I'd had the best sex of my life before, but I was wrong!" and proceeded to tell me the details. It was a bit shocking to hear about it in such terms. I don't think she understands the major shift I have incurred in her life in verra, verra short order, in terms of priority, by her own changing definitions of who and what I am to her. As a friend, I would've loved the juicy gossip. As the lover, I'm like, WTF? I thought *I* gave you the best orgasms??? Confusing? Anyway... I also had a male friend of mine say the same thing that you said, today--that I was a stepping stone and now she doesn't me anymore In our conversations she did say she was glad she had the new guy (to fall back on) in case I decided to pull the plug... yikes.... that hurt. There's a big difference--we were having a lot of sex anyway--I was not just into her as an alternative sex source when Husband is busy. As for my Husband; I may be similar to my bf in ways... but I often feel he (corny as it is) completes me. The bonds we have go many years deep--he has committed to me, he has been there consistenly, he is the person with whom I make a home and the father of my child... if anything good has come of this, it's that our eyes have been opened to new parts of one another, and we are much closer than before. And besides... we learned we can work together under great pressure and against many odds to realize our goals and dreams. I am most certainly pulling back from this lifestyle at this time, on that Husband and I agree! ~Tempest
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