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AnonDude

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About AnonDude

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  1. You are correct about it being a factor. We have somewhat "resolved" the issue because it is my responsibility to ascertain reception/rejection beforehand. Essentially abstracting for her, through myself, the ramifications of a negative reaction. ...but since we are "just musing" - I would say you are correct - it is a concern.
  2. The intention of this post was not to decide the age old question of one spouse wants to swing the other doesn't. I did touch on that but the "musings" in my post were more on the equality given to each lifestyle choice and the effects of societal norms but... ...since I did mention the situation between my wife and I all is fair game I suppose. That being the case there is another piece to the story: I (the male half) have no interest in other women or men. I can assure all of you that I have no interest in getting involved in this lifestyle with my wife for the sole reason of "getting more pussy". I can assure all of you about that because I would (and effectively have) turned down that very scenario. If she wants another woman it is for her - I have no interest in touching anyone but my wife. My fascination comes from watching my wife in the throws of passion or riding a sexual wave of abandonment. I nearly fall apart from the beauty of it. I suppose that makes me weird, so be it. I feel there is an experience, a beautiful one, available in that scenario that is, honestly, tainted by being involved in the machinations of sex yourself. I am sure there is a beauty to the "full swap" scenario or the FFM scenario as well and I would imagine everyone has their preferences. Mine is quite simply to see my wife pleased and/or excited - that is the ONLY swinging pleasure that interests me.
  3. I know and I am not saying this to be contentious - just a little introspective philosophy for discussion's sake but... Couldn't the same words quoted above be said to the monogamous half of the relationship? Would we find it callous and cruel to say exactly what you said except reversed with a swinging lifestyle as the platform of defense? I doubt there are any answers to this but I find it interesting. My wife and I have struggled with this very question for 15 months of marriage and it has been the biggest hurdle we've had to overcome. Hell, we still haven't got past it. I was a swinger when we first met and although she has had various experiences in the past she was more interested in a monogamous marriage. I acquiesced to monogamy after much "cussin and discussin" but have struggled with resentment issues and redefining myself all along. She feels guilty having asked me to give up something that meant a lot to me. We have tried things during our marriage to attempt to satisfy both of us but monogamy is pretty much exclusive by definition and leaves very little room for interpretation. She agrees that monogamy doesn't warrant being a default any more than swinging does but has her views as I have mine. If we go her route she struggles with guilt, if we go mine I struggle with it. Our relationship is perfect in every other regard. We absolutely love each other and get along perfectly. We admire and respect each other in a number of different ways and we find each other beautiful. We would rather be WITH each other in a sewer than apart on beds of roses. I believe it is this very love that makes this so difficult. If I didn't care so much for her I would be less inclined to care about the unfairness of this and feel guilt for going the swinging route. The same is true for her. When I decide to "deal" she feels guilty for making me "keep my promise" of a monogamous relationship. What a pickle, huh?
  4. Bear with me - Nobody even really needs to read this - I just need to express my feelings... Isn't swinging a lifestyle? A lifestyle much like Monogamy? I hear a lot of posts about taking no for an answer from your spouse when this comes up but what about the shoe being on the other foot? What if you said "no" to monogamy if it were asked for simply because it was not the kind of lifestyle you wanted to be part of. I suppose my question is this: why is swinging something a married couple has to discuss and drop if either of them has a problem with it? In this same couple one of them obviously has a problem with monogamy - why then isn't monogamy dropped as well? Why isn't monogamy subject to the same rules of unanimous acceptance as swinging? I know! I know! Because one of them will resent the other later for being forced into something they didn't feel comfortable with or agree with completely but then isn't the reverse true as well? Wouldn't the swinger potentially feel resentment later for being forced to accept a lifestyle he/she didn't feel comfortable with or agree with? Is it society's stigma since swinging is considered alternative and monogamy the default? If so - by who's definition is monogamy the default? And even if it IS the default isn't the swinging mindset predicated - at least in part - on the willingness to define your own set of social values and defaults? I suppose there is every reason why the swinger should take no for answer, not push, etc. I just feel very alone sometimes because swingers are always the ones hiding what they do. It seems we have to be ashamed of who and what we are unless we are in the presence of other swingers. God forbid this issue arises with your spouse and you have to suppress/hide it from him/her. Oh well, no answers. Just the way it is I suppose. I wonder if this is the same crap gay people go through? I wonder if we shouldn't form a swinger's rights movement. Hmmm... I think I'll shut up now...
  5. PLEASE READ THIS - ALL OF IT: There is a lot of good information here. My wife and I are carriers of HSV-1 and feel full disclosure with any potential partners is a must even though we haven't had an outbreak in nearly a year. I get cold sores - I would disclose it even when I am asymptomatic and she has gential HSV-1 (She had it before she met me) and discloses it to potential partners as well. I will admit that I didn't disclose this information prior to meeting her - it was simply a cold sore and everyone I knew suffered from cold sores occasionally. Hell, I didn't even know it was herpes. A couple of things to clarify here though: HSV-1 is not oral herpes and HSV-2 genital herpes. They are both simply herpes with differing viral definitions - the location of infection is not indicative of virus type any more than AIDS is a homosexual disease - it is simply a disease found, by transmission vector and logical mechanics in a disproportionatey high segment of the population but is by no means an indicator of an homosexual male or IV drug user. The odds may be higher but being heterosexual is absolutely NOT a vaccine against AIDS. But I digress, herpes: The CDC estimates 90% of the populace is a carrier of HSV (1 or 2) and that 100% of males over the age of 31 have been exposed to the virus. For whatever reason (strong immune system, inattention, whatever) they have no idea whatsoever that they are carriers or have been exposed. I could quote very similar statistics for HPV (Human papillomavirus) or warts. Notice I didn't say genital warts - because if you have a wart you have HPV. Again, location is not a different viral strain - just a different location of infection. My wife and I have faced rejection before and will probably face it in the future. We are not dirty, we are not evil, we are simply honest. Interestingly enough it works well for us and someone touched on this in an earlier reply: we wouldn't want to play with someone who was afraid of the herpes virus. They would be, in our opinion, a higher risk. Here's why: If you are uninfected by the herpes virus (10% chance) and you find ONE partner in your life and remain clean (1% chance - 10% of 10%) and you decide to swing, find ONE couple who has never had sex with anyone other than each other as well you have a 1% chance of 1% of remaining unexposed. That is 1 in 10,000. These numbers degrade further. Herpes does not have to be transmitted sexually or by kissing. You scratch a cold sore, shake someone's hand and they touch their eyes, mouth, genitals etc - they have been exposed. You could run the above statistics with everyone you have ever shook hands with but it would rapidly become ridiculous. This is what the CDC believes as well, hence the 100% estimate. Very few organizations would state 100% as a percentage for anything - they simply know the odds are far too staggering to be anything but... If you elect to swing: you WILL be exposed. You probably already have. Herpes is annoying but not remotely life threatening, any more than HPV or the common cold and it is simply, everywhere. My opinion: Lets all simply acknowledge the fact that this particular affliction is media driven bullshit fueled by ignorance and accept that it is here. Don't swing when it hits you, recognize the symptoms and act responsibly. Honestly, the best defense is keeping fit and taking care of yourself. You probably have been exposed and you WILL be if you haven't. One of MY theories concerning the seeming lack of herpes in the swinging community is related to the higher concern for physical attractiveness. Swingers like to look good naked for obvious reasons and probably take a little better care of themselves. Exercise and attention to health issues probably results in better than average immune systems which results in carriers with no symptoms. Notice I didn't say clean or unexposed - just asymptomatic. A healthy life still involves shaking hands, kissing relatives, hugging, etc, etc, ad nauseum. It is no more than the common cold. Would you swing with someone who had a cold? Probably not while they had the cold but after they got over it you probably would. Depending on the type of cold they were contagious before they knew they were sick and even after they "got better". They had an incurable virus and the chance of transmission is greater than herpes because it is often transmitted through the air. Do you stay in your house because someone outside may have been exposed to a cold and may be a carrier of it? No, you don't. The difference? Ramifications. A cold carries no social stigma but herpes does. The chance of exposure is virtually the same, the life threatening nature is the same, etc. But we have let the media tell us herpes exists but give us half the story because its not dramatic to make it sound like a common cold, its not news. Drug companies don't want people to have outbreaks and say "oh well, out of action for a few days" and let it pass on its own - just like a cold. It's a multi-billion dollar industry for suppressive medication - why would they want you to view it with the impunity it deserves? One further point - childbirth and herpes. This is a correct fear. Interestingly enough you should read the ramifications of some types of cold virus and influenza on childbirth as well. The virus can be passed to the child and what is a cold or flu to you becomes a life threatening illness to a newborn. I am not saying it should be ignored - only put in perspective. Put it in its proper place. It's not AIDS people, it's media driven crap. It's crap driven by the companies that sell "cures". Try to find REAL information on herpes from a site that sells Famvir, Acyclovir or Valtrex. Try to find it on a site that sells homeopathic remedies like oxygen therapies, balms, gels, goos, pills, herbs or anything else. They don't tell you what the CDC tells you because you'd realize what it really was and not pay the $54.95 plus shipping for their crap that is in reality no better than comtrex, robitussin, or any other cold and flu medication. Medications which do nothing more than treat the symptoms - they keep you from wondering around sneezing snotballs on everyone but they don't cure a damn thing. Sorry if this seems like a rant but my wife and I feel the statistics make us suffer not because we are infected - but simply because we are honest. Put simply - it sucks.
  6. On another site my wife and I use for meeting people we are both listed as bi-sexual. There are about 20 or so active single males listed in our geographic area and I would say that 75% of them have contacted us to arrange something. In their message about 75% of THOSE stated that they we're bi-curious, or looking for their first bi experience yet their profiles listed them as straight. Chicup: You stated that TeamSobe felt the way he did because his exposure in this lifestyle has been more aligned with his beliefs, yet you maintain straight males are "just the way it is" and infer that heterosexual male activity is the norm. Why can it not be that YOUR experiences have colored YOU to that way of thought? I would agree that the desire of MM behavior is not readily advertised. I can tell you, from my experience, that 75% of those straight males out there - aren't. Why? I suppose because the damage of consensual male to male sex upon the stigma of accepted ideals of "manhood" is too great. Manhood is a title for which men have to fight all their life. It is hard work and it is hard work to maintain it - but you can lose it with one bad move. Suck a dick - lose the kingdom. Only when your personal ideals of manhood are established and require "proof" only to yourself and your mate can you look at changing the rules without serious psychological issues. Until then - most men with these fantasies will only admit them to other men who will not judge their manliness based on those same actions. Just my $0.02.
  7. I don't want to offend anyone here but I am going to play devil's advocate. It seems to me that this forum is in a feeding frenzy on your husband and all we have is information from your perspective. I have been around long enough to know that there are always two sides to every story and usually there is merit in the spoken argument of each side. You made statements in your post that lead me to believe you have issues with yourself, be it looks, general self view - whatever. That you suffered sexual abuse as a child would lead me to believe this even more. I was married for 10 years to a woman who had been sexually abused from the age of 4 until the age she left home. Put simply, she had no self-esteem or self-worth and nothing was ever her fault. No sense of responsibility or culpability for her own actions. I don't know how this abuse has affected you, only you are in a position to know that. What I would venture to say is that you are in a marriage with someone you must care about, or you wouldn't have married him and as such you have a responsibility to him - as much as he has a responsibility to you. It sounds like the two of you are involved in a lifestyle that he enjoys greatly. It also sounds like much of his love for you was/is predicated on your desire to join him in an alternative lifestyle. If this lifestyle must end I feel he is entitled to an explanation, as much as you are entitled to an explanation why it must continue. Marriage is a two way street. If your reticence to continue the lifestyle is based on self-esteem issues then you need to address these feelings with him and do so with the intent to resolve them - not use them as an excuse. If you enjoyed swinging before then you are a swinger. If you have since developed issues with swinging then it is only fair to yourself, your husband and your marriage to address these feelings and find resolution. If the underlying issues have to do with your looks then you need to overcome that (everyone is beautiful and there are always equals out there), if it is latent abuse issue resurfacing then you may need counseling or at the very least a supportive ear from your lifemate. You need to LIKE yourself and be self confident - if you lack this then you need to get it or regain it. One way I have found with the women I have know is that they need to be told how beautiful they are, or how sexy they are and it means much more coming from someone they love. Let him know you need it - tell him it may sound crazy but you need to hear it and you need to know he means it. I will let you in on a little secret here - men need the same assurance about their virility and manhood as women need about their sexiness and beauty - they're just too damn stubborn and manly to admit it and often they evidence their insecurities by being an asshole. That's why men are assholes more often than women. I'd wager he'll understand your need for re-affirmation more than you think. I have found in relationships that friction filled atmospheres tend to spiral to intolerable levels. He, likely, feels you have vectored off in some inane direction with issues about how unattractive or unworthy you are while you feel he has left you crying in the middle of the street - not caring about your feelings. It seems to me that the truth lies somewhere in between. If you want to save your marriage then you need to accept some of the responsibility about what your relationship is, was and will be. Step up to the plate armed with this new acceptance and prepare to be an equal, not a victim. Understand he has feelings, that this is important to him and also that you want to be with him as a wife, partner, lover and friend - not a ticket into the swing clubs. Don't cry about it. State your point. If he gets upset then take a break and come back to the conversation 5 minutes later, or 10. Continue until you feel you have at least found a starting point towards resolution. Don't go to him crying -impress him with the strength of your resolve. Don't be an asshole even if he is - walk away and come back. Be an adult even if he refuses. Don't speak simply to be right or throw verbal knives - speak to find resolution, the future of your marriage hinges on it and you need to discuss it with the determination that accompanies such matters of importance. Remember - many couples find swinging to be a fantastic thing for them so the act itself is not wrong. It may be wrong for some people but you enjoyed it once so I doubt this is the case for you. It sounds to me like YOU need to think YOU are beautiful and the one you turn to most for that confirmation is showing the evidence of that feeling to other women. Tell him. Tell him if he wants his swing partner back and wants this to be fun for both of you again then by damn - here's what you need! It may not work the first time but keep trying. In the movie "The Mexican" the coolest line wnet something like this: "When you love someone, when is it too much? When is enough, enough?" "Its never too much... its never enough..." Question is: do you love him? The rest is just a hell of a lot of work.
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