dortress

I've been back here a number of times since my original post reading people's responses. Thank you. Fair enough - there is. Larger issues of intimacy and feeling loved. Some of what you mentioned is near the mark about self-esteem, etc. And while I have body image issues, I don't believe I have larger issues of self esteem. I believe I'm smart, I excel at what I do in my job, I'm independent and self-reliant. I have some problems with my sexuality, and fully admit that. I will also say now I don't think my husband and his swinging desires contribute to my improving in that area. My husband was my first (although he didn't know it at the time). Share myself (in the context of my history) was a big thing - and I've told him that. That might explain some of my mindset as it pertains to adventuring, etc. It was all new and I was exploring. Neither of us knew at the time our dating would lead to something serious. And at the same, I was going through a learning curve - what I liked, didn't like. He liked that I adventured with him and said he thought that was sexy. People change though - people's preferences change. Apparently, I'm not allowed to do that - he resents my change and that's why he feels he's been cheated and he's angry. I've always struggled with my weight and have been sensitive about my body image my whole life. I've gained since we married (as has he, but I don't care). Things are said in moments of anger - and in one of his he told me I revolted him and was disgusting. "Your pussy's too hard to eat." I've heard that frequently in my head since, no matter what he's said. It's effected us. And he wonders why when he asks me to go around the house naked, I don't. As we've been together, I've come to appreciate him and have wanted to be with him. He is, by his own admission a 'thrill seeker'. He likes the novel and ('jokingly' has said) I'm the 'old familiar'. He's emphatically said these adventures about sharing something with his 'old familiar', but I've increasingly felt (however wrongly) that they're about novelty and someone other than me. If your couple's intimacy level is "0", then what are you sharing??? He's something of an exhibitionist. Given my feelings and some of the less than delightful rejections, I haven't been too keen on things that keep having me expose myself to other people. But, here we are - him suggesting phone sexing, web-camming sex, sex in public places, parties, one-on-one get togethers - all at the same time our personal intimacy has declined to ZERO. Me going along, even though I'm uncomfortable because I want to be a loving wife. Because he keeps saying "if we can find the right activity/environment for you to be comfortable in, it'll all be fun.' Because he's keeps saying this 'sharing' will bring us closer together. Hell, we can't even seem to have sex together without porno running in the background. And me having shared (sometimes tearfully, sometimes angrily) that I'm increasingly uncomfortable. And it's lead to angry incriminations of how unfair it is that I've changed. How he's not going to bring it up again, but 2 months later, he's asking about the new friend he met online, and would I mind if they came over. How we 'only do this a half-dozen times a year, it's not like it's all the time' (true enough). My reticence to continue the lifestyle is only partly based on self-esteem issues; I've mentioned some of the others. As far as resolving them though: If the person that keeps hitting their head against the wall tells you it hurts, and doesn't when they stop, isn't the answer to stop hitting your head against the wall?? No offense, it almost seems as if the advice here is to address your body issues so you can go back out and do it all again. Funny, I've asked him for that. His answer has been: "I'm not good at that." "I don't want to tell lies." So, I'm not Liz Hurley. For him there doesn't seem to be an inbetween like, "I think your pussy is sexy" or "you have great eyes". Instead, it's nothing. Which is why I've always gone overboard to tell him he's cute, he's sexy, his manhood is the best there ever is, his stamina is awesome, etc. etc. Pretty much a quote from today's argument. As for the rest of what you said: yeah, I've been trying. It seems as far as he's concerned, his actions are only marginally a part of this and the bulk of it resides with me. Thank you for the thoughtful post. I"m not sure where it'll go, but I felt I had to respond.

Thank you for the responses. I'll keep reading here - it's been helpful in understanding some of my emotions. To answer questions: yes, I liked it some in the beginning. But, there have been other issues between us, coupled with *bad* experiences and I've just been increasingly turned off. Our lack of personal intimacy has contributed to my being even more resentful of this activity. Combined with the fact that he manages to be a more attentive, thoughtful lover with strangers than he is with me hasn't exactly made me desirous of this. To answer another question: no, at this point I don't even desire him. I have had counseling re: my abuse, and it helped. I mention the early abuse only to explain my late start in sexual life. As far as a "Bill of Goods" - yes, he's said that before. We argued again tonight and I said how felt and his response was to say how angry and frustrated he was with me now about "not even being able to have this little bit of side pleasure anymore". I "ruined" it. I was livid. I'd just told him I didn't feel loved, cherished or desired and that this activity wasn't reinforcing that and the best he could do is tell me how disappointed he was about not being able to swing anymore. So yes, there are more problems here. I guess this pretty much sums it all up. He keeps telling me this is about 'sharing pleasure with each other', but in the absence of other things, I'm not feeling that. He says this isn't a "zero sum game. Just because I have sex with someone else doesn't mean I don't want you." But if we're not being intimate, then what is it? And since he won't consider counseling, I'm not sure there's progress to be made. Thanks for listening. You're right, the problem is more than the swinging.

My husband and I have just spent 2 days arguing about swinging and I'm really beginning to think this is just going to kill our marriage. I need some advice (and I'll keep reading here) but I'm incredibly upset and I'm not sure this can be made better. The important background is me: I was sexually abused as a young child and it took me an awfully long time to open up. In fact, I was a virgin until 30, though I dated. Met (now) husband at a time in my life where I felt confident and secure and we hit it off. Imagine now that I'm a novice, so I'm in exploratory mode with a (more than) willing partner. We end up visiting all manner of clubs, playing with other couples, experimenting w/B&D, you name it. He's delirious: every freaking sexual fantasy coming true. We marry, and as time goes by though, I'm liking this less and less. I'm hating the rejection (I'm not Liz Hurley), I'm hating the fakers. I'm not liking having people I wouldn't normally choose to date, or even remotely turn me on make advances on me. The turning point for me was attending a club where women were treated like chum by the men present. At the end of the evening, a drunken idiot looked at my (large) bosom and said "God, they're big", like I had some sort of mutant body parts. Lovely. Husband has tried to be understanding and doesn't ask for clubs anymore. I try very hard for him, because I know he wants this. He arranges small encounters at home with other couples/singles. This works only moderately well. I'm fine and enjoy people's company (dinner, etc.) until we get to the point where it's time to take clothes off. The last 'party' we went caused our worst argument to date. We attended with a single woman we'd played with, so there were 3 of us. I went off with someone I'd been with before, without him and that angered him. I told him I figured it didn't make a difference, since he had his playmate there and beside, isn't that what I'm expected to do at parties? Our sex life is a shambles. He spends hours on the computer, looking at pictures and trying to find playmates for 'us' in chat rooms. I've tried dancing in front of him in lingerie, pulling on his privates, only to have him tell me "why don't you go inside and watch a video tape and let me know when you're ready, and I"ll come join you." It's seven years later now and I'm just numb. I don't feel anything during sex anymore and I don't even want my husband to touch me. I can't tell you how long it's been since I've been aroused. "When Harry Met Sally" doesn't have anything on me in the bedroom. My husband is angry and tells me he feels like he got sold a bills of goods when we got married. He wants 'the sexy woman who would do anything' back in his bed. All *I* want is to have my husband want to have intimacy with me, without having other people watch or participate. Instead, all I seem to have is a marriage where we occasionally 'vent fluids' in the presence of people I wouldn't normally choose. I'm trying very hard to keep him happy, but frankly, this is killing me. I don't know how much longer I can do this. Does anyone who's done this for awhile have any perspective to offer me. I'm just so freaking alone in this.