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lcjtsd

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About lcjtsd

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  • Birthday 03/14/1960

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  1. No Spoomonkey, I think the Naughties were right. We feel this forum has become cliquish, opinionated and closed minded to certain issues. This issue we brought up, we feel, is an important one for all swingers. If anyone does unprotected oral, how effective is condom use in preventing STD's? We were hoping to raise awareness that there are many activities that swingers do with others that, basically, make condoms completely ineffective. Our own experience has shown that. Hence, why even bother with them? Did we go a bit overboard in our presentation? Maybe, and for that I apologize. However, it seems that the people here would rather stick their heads in the sand and completely ignore the issue, (Which I feel the lack of voting in the poll illustrates). In other words, if a question or opinion comes up that goes against the majority here (which it seems that this one does) the issue is ignored by the majority, no matter how important the subject. I feel that this is a darned good issue and, once again, apologize if our presentation was incorrect. So I think we'll be on our way.
  2. Spoomonkey, I used the term "Double Standard" as I couldn't think of any other way to describe it. That's all. I have added a poll hoping to find out how much the people on this board feel that condom use reduces their risk. After two days there have only been three other votes. Either this is an issue the folks here don't want to talk about or they just don't like us. Oh well. Maybe we'll leave here, too, and go elsewhere.
  3. WOW! Hi Julie! Due to the kids (we have 4) and our business, we don't have a lot of time to go out and meet people face-to-face. That's why we thought the online ads would be a great way to find other like-minded couples. It didn't work out that way. It seems that everyone is looking for the bi-woman or the hot, fit, athletic type. Sorry, my wife is straight and we're Mr & Mrs Average. Also, not wanting to lead anyone on, we also state in our profile out preference. We did have couples email us and when we replied and re-stated our preference, we either never heard from them again or received a polite "No Thank You". The reason? They always use condoms as they only do "safe" sex. We did ask them if they do oral unprotected and the few answers we did we receive, they said that they did. This is why we had to vent. It's just so frustrating. I know the way we contracted chlamydia was when my wife was doing oral on both of us, switching back and forth between us two guys. So what was the purpose of the condom? I can think of a lot of scenarios with two couples where STD's can be spread and using condoms would not do anything to stop this. We feel that the people who classify themselves a "swingers" are the safest people to have sex with. Oh well. I guess our option now is to take VegasLee's advice and actually go out and meet people face-to-face at a club type setting and find people this way. Once again, we don't have a lot of time so we may only get the opportunity to play once a year. To answer your question as to are we being too picky, no. While we do have our preference on looks, etc., we would be happy to meet most couples at this point, just get out of the house! Thanks for posting Julie.
  4. RW1F, If you want to use them, fine. If you read our post where we explained our story you will see that we did do unprotected oral and condoms for intercourse and got bit in the ass for it. All we're saying is that if you do unprotected oral, you're only fooling yourself if you think the condoms are going to "protect you". I know there are those of you who will say that you have been swinging for 10+years, 20+ years, whatever and say that "We have never caught anything". I say that it's more likely that the people you played with didn't have anything in the first place. If they did, you would have got it from the unprotected oral. I guess I could relate this to when I am driving. Although my wife is an excellent driver, I HAVE TO drive whenever we go anyplace together. I cannot be the passenger and have her drive. I call this my "Illusion of being in control". This is the same as those who do oral unprotected and use condoms for intercourse. It is your "Illusion of being safe". Yes, I understand this feeling, this illusion, very well. Does this mean that the feeling is justified? No. Can I get into an accident just as easily as my wife? Yes. It's just an illusion of being in control or being safe. So if doing Double Standard sex makes you "feel" safer, go ahead and continue. But don't expect my wife to do unprotected oral on you. All you're telling us is that you have something you don't believe can be spread via oral sex. Once again, we did it that way and got bit.
  5. I think it would help everyone here if we clarified our position and situation. We started playing with others about 4-5 years ago. It all started when the Mrs. told me of a guy who was constantly being suggestive about what he would like to do. After talking about it, she decided that she would ask him if he were serious and, if yes, have fun with him. Well, he was serious and they had a great time together. Eventually, all three of us would get together and we had a great time. Alas, he ended up getting married and this fun ended. This is when we found AFF and SLS and placed ads on both of these sites. Now, before we did anything with anyone else, we were responsible and went and got tested to make sure that we didn't have anything. Ended up everything was fine. As everyone knows, finding a single guy is a heck of a lot easier than finding a couple. So we ended up being contacted by a guy here in Vegas who is in the Air Force stationed at Nellis. He seemed really nice so we decided to meet. We drove about 45 minutes and met him at a club close to Nellis. We ended up talking for about an hour and we were all getting along great. Please note, that at this time our ad did not state a preference to not using condoms. (I like seconds, what can I say). So when the discussion came around to sex, he informed us that he always uses condoms but oral without is OK with him. Well, since we had spent almost two hours already, we said that this would be fine. Needless to say, we had a great time. Now, being the good, responsible swingers that we are, two weeks later we went and got tested for STD's. Guess what! Yes, we had Chlamydia! Now I just don't understand where we could have got it from. I mean, he did use a condom. This is supposed to prevent thing like this from happening, right? WRONG!!! Was the unprotected oral sex responsible for us catching this from him? Who knows. We do know that he was the one we caught it from and that the condom sure as heck didn't stop us from getting it. After long discussion on this, we have come to the conclusion that should we meet anyone and they insist on condoms for intercourse but not for oral, we politely say No Thank You. Why, because they most likely have something they don't want us to catch and they don't believe that it can be transmitted through oral. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, not going to happen. If you do unprotected oral, use any reason you like for your preference on condoms for intercourse except to keep from catching an STD. We don't buy it. This is our story and we're sticking to it.
  6. I've been trying to find the ad I read the other day on SLS. It was by a couple looking for a guy to play with them. In the ad they stated that if the guy was STD fee, recently tested and could prove it, that they might let him cum on the girls face. This got me wondering, they most likely do oral unprotected (as most on here do), so is their fear of STD's due to the false assumption that the danger item is the semen? Not realizing that, in men, STD's reside in the penis itself? You see, by stating that "they might let him cum on her face", their fear is the semen. So, should they do oral unprotected, and the guy does have an STD, is insisting on a condom giving this couple a false illusion of safe? Do they believe that the STD risk is only with the semen? Has this false illusion of semen being the only thing to worry about been passed around so much that many couples believe that semen is the cause of STD's? So, I will stand by my belief that to do oral unprotected and insist on condoms for intercourse "to prevent STD's" is based mainly on false beliefs on how STD's are spread. Spoomonkey, I'm not saying that you're doing anything wrong. If using condoms helps you, and anyone else, feel safer, then by all means use them. You understand that STD's can be spread through oral. How many people don't know this?
  7. Spoomonkey, OK, Yes, I'll admit that it may pose less risk. I think you'll agree that any risk is still a risk. On the other hand, I'm still curious as to whether or not a couple involved in swinging is less likely to have any type of STD due to this group, in general, getting tested more often than others. I believe this to be the case.
  8. Islanders, Thank you for your reply. Yes, we agree that it is quality over quantity. We would love to find another couple (or two) that we could get together with on a somewhat regular basis. With the online ads, there are so many posers and wannabes that it's not worth the effort. We too have kids and own our own business so we don't have a lot of time to go out and meet people in a swing type get together. This issue does leave us completely perplexed. We're just trying to understand the issue. It makes it kind of frustrating also when you are Mr. & Mrs. Average, both straight and all the ads are looking for a bi-girl (which most will never find) or Hot, Fit and Athletic. Good luck in your search. We have met one couple back in November who were visiting Las Vegas and we had a great time. They were just like us, same age group, kids the same age, married the same length of time, etc. So there are people out there. It may take some time to find them but they are there.
  9. We believe that swingers, as a group, are more apt to get tested more often than other groups and thus less likely to have any STD. What we are asking is why would a couple do oral unprotected and then use a condom for intercourse? As we stated in previous posts, should anyone have anything, you have already sucked it or licked it into your mouth (sorry for being so graphic) and, this being the case, what is the condom going to do to protect you? You have already caught the STD! If you like using condoms, great. But to say that you insist on using a condom to stay STD free while you are doing unprotected oral does not make any sense to us. Sorry, but we think this is a BS excuse. Flame us all you want for that statement but "Double Standard" sex does not make any sense.
  10. Wildthingplus, You say that you have been swinging for 8 years and haven't caught anything. Could you please elaborate on this. Do you use condoms, don't use them, prefer not to use them? Use them for one thing and not another?
  11. Magnum, You didn't state whether the women were on any type of birth control or not. I think it would help clarify.
  12. VanHlebar, We're not trying to make anyone fit our rules, we are just curious and trying to understand this rule that couples have. Maybe I just have a thick skull but it just doesn't make sense to me. Others have mentioned the HIV scare. OK. But I feel that the odds of HIV in the swinging community are so remote to almost be a non-issue. If anyone has info to the contrary, please let me know. We feel you are more likely to meet someone who has the more common STD's, most of which can be caught via oral sex. Hence, why bother with the condom? Yes, this is supposed to be fun for all. Everyone agrees on that. As I said in a previous post, I would hate to be in a situation where the condom broke and the other couple freaked out. I don't see that kind of drama as fun. How can we avoid this drama? By finding other like-minded couples who also do not use condoms. From many of the other post on this site dealing with Cream Pies, seconds, etc, there seem to be quite a few who also enjoy this. It just seems that they live everywhere else but Las Vegas .
  13. VanHlebar, Go back and look at our posts. We do make the exception for pregnancy concerns. My wife has her tubes tied so that is not an issue with us. You also reiterated what VegasLee said; Therein lies the problem. We have found one couple in FOUR YEARS! The reason? The other couple insists on condoms so they don't catch anything. The confusion? They do oral unprotected! Once again, this makes no sense to us. VegasLee also stated that there are quite a few couples who play without condoms. Where the heck are they? Do we simply have a case of "Sour Grapes"? Maybe. We would like to play more often. (Who wouldn't LOL) So, is it OK to catch an STD in your mouth and throat but not on your privates?
  14. Boris, no I don't take your post as flaming. Yes, we do see this as a black and white area with no gray in between. From the postings on this site we see that couples involved in swinging are more apt to be tested for STD's more frequently, thus the risk of catching anything is lower. We feel that the number of couples who have been married 15+ years with kids who are HIV+ is very low and then when you factor the percentage of these couples who are swingers, the odds of running into HIV is very, very low. I may be wrong. Maybe this just isn't for us. Neither one of us like sex with condoms on. We don't see how sex with a paranoid couple can be fun. PLEASE, we're not saying that swingers who insist on condoms are paranoid! But you know there are some who, if the condom broke, would absolutely freak out as their life is going to end tomorrow. We would not want to have to deal with that issue. How can you have a good time if all you're thinking about is whether it is going to break or not? We would rather be with another couple who were as comfortable having sex with us as we would be with them. In four years we have found only one. From the other postings on this site, you would think there would be more. Obviously not. We realize that everyone determines their own level of risk. We don't think that the risk is that great. Others are of the attitude that everyone has something and most are somewhere in between. That's all for now.
  15. If you look back at our post, we did make the exception of pregnancy. The HIV issue? Well, is it an issue with the married couples in their mid-thirties and on who have kids, etc.? Personally, if one or both of us were HIV+, the last thing we would be doing is swinging. I think most "swingers" are of the same mind. So, we feel that the odds of playing with another couple who would be HIV+ is far less than the odds of one who had any other STD. Are we incorrect? Maybe there is someone who has researched this and can give the percentages.
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