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BlueJoy

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    29
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Community Reputation

16 Good

About BlueJoy

  • Rank
    Contributor
  • Birthday 12/24/1967

Personal Info

  • Relationship Status
    couple
  • Location
    France
  • Interests
    Him: collector of Checker Cabs, a few motorcycles, an F-8 Crusader, author of two published books. Her: horsemanship, both western and classical dressage, hiking, reading
  • Swinging Experience
    Beginners!
  • Anniversary
    xx/xx/xxxx
  1. I really appreciate how well you expressed what you feel there. It helps me, as a woman to understand the male experience better. My husband and I have talked about it, and he is just more visual. The exteriorization of things he feels is important and necessary for him. I may get out what I am feeling inside by thinking and then talking about it, He gets them out by seeing it enacted outside, with real people, objects, events. I close my eyes to intensify my experience- I am listening to the interior, to the nerves, muscles, blood and chemicals- that makes it better. Looking at things outside my body lessens my experience- I lose touch with my senses. We have tried putting on porn while having sex, he loves it, I am numb and bored. I feel like he is not with me at all, and either am I, actually. He has trouble even knowing what he is feeling if he sees nothing outside! He has never even liked to cum inside me because seeing it is what makes him aware it even happened. (hence my admiration of a man who can figure out what he feels and put it into words...) But this is where trust is important to me in sex. To have fun and enjoy, I need to close my eyes and stop thinking and abandon myself and my self conscious will. In that state, I am extremely vulnerable, without any defenses. I need to feel sure this man will not take advantage of that moment to hurt me. (I asked once on these boards how women deal with that- how to feel safe with strangers- no answer. So I guess trust is not necessary for all women) But your experience you shared offers me a chance to point out one of my concerns (I will get my husband to read your post, perhaps it will help us get dialogue going)- I fear we're treading dangerous ground with me. He wants "more" (in his case, I suspect he is just sick of the same woman, who is getting older, different from your case there) and wants sex without love. If I am going to set out on this, I need trust, I need to feel the man cares a slight bit, finds me valuable as a soul, that there is mutual affection. Making love. Not another marriage or anything, but affectionate care about each other, and sex. Relationships. I am afraid that trying to do "only sex", I will fall into love. If he is okay with me having extramarital affairs, then we're good to go! I can handle multiple loves. I don't need to leave anyone. But that is not what he wants. He'll get jealous, as you did. (even if he's sick of the old bag now, he is still very possessive). It sounds like you have found a good way for both to be happy- with a certain amount of acceptance of each others needs. If we women should understand a man can need sex with many women , maybe men should understand a woman can need to love many men? Food for thought and dialogue. Thanks for sharing so openly!
  2. I am curious to hear from the OP, on how her situation has evolved and where her feelings are now. I find mine go through such big changes.... I find the idea of watching my husband have sex with another woman extremely exciting, and yet still cannot feel turned on at the idea of having sex with someone else, myself. Someone else wrote, "The fact is, humans are not monogamous." I am wondering if there is something deeply wrong with me. I have never cheated on my husband, or on any boyfriend before him, and never felt that to be a struggle. On the contrary, the growth of trust between me and my mate is what allows me to be totally free sexually with him; whereas with someone I don't have that trust with, I feel limited and closed. Monogamy frees me to be a wild sex goddess. This whole project to get into swinging is scaring me back into my shell and making me reserved. All this time I have considered myself to be a very sexual person, and to love sex..... but now I am beginning to have doubts. Perhaps I am more into making love then having sex. Then I have another thing growing in mind lately- the fact that I am older (46) and that I used to be a good looking woman. I was a model when young, I was very pretty. I am getting a bit flabby now, getting wrinkles, have implants (after breastfeeding three kids, they were needed just to get things normal looking) and even those are starting to hang too low. I am very aware that the whole swinging interest is spurred by him feeling frustrated with me. He admits he is a very visual person and looks matter. He had a few times of not being able to get it up, and then the talk of swinging happened. There is no doubt he needs a younger woman to enjoy himself now. Part of me feels resigned to that fact (what can you do? I go to the gym everyday, I watch what I eat, I get filler injections, etc.)... but I am starting to have moments of feeling a bit like saying- screw this. I am freak of nature, I am the first monogamous human being. I don't really want to be the sweat wife doing whatever she can to make sure her husband can get his rocks off with another. I'd rather be alone then looking for a toy for him. I'm personally okay with my appearence, and who I am in general, and don't feel like focusing so much importance on it. If I can't be with someone who feels turned on by who I am, then I would really prefer to be alone. I love him, we have many years together, a whole life behind us, I want him to be happy. But is his happiness so important I should give up my own? Bad day I guess. My feelings are a roller coaster on this subject. I am now feeling like it is making me put the deepest bases of our relationship in question. He just seems kinda sad that his needs make me feel this way. He can't help it that I am no longer turning him on. He love me though. I have other men around me reassuring me that I am attractive and that they'd jump at a chance to be with me, so maybe that encourages my bitterness. All things beign relative, to him I may be same old-same old used up old lady, but for some others, I am still not bad. So I have moments of wondering if it is really necessary to give up on love and sexual desire completely.
  3. Just to post an update, though probably no one cares (I need to find a venue for expression any way) My husband got rather cooled off on the idea of swinging, seeing my complex issues and emotions. We went on vacation, and despite my suggestions of various swinging type of places we could go to, he shrugged them off. In California, at a big dinner event, I met a woman and we started drinking a bit too much and going off outside so she could smoke. I really do not remember how the evening ended! My husband says I had made some suggestions about all three of us getting together, but then I had spent hours alone with her in the bathroom! He suspects we had sex, I have no idea. She had found me on facebook and made references to our "girltime", but I don't know. I can't stop thinking about her, which makes me think it is possible we fooled around. All I can say is- don't drink too much- if you have your first homosexual experience, it is ruined that way. Damn. I wish I remembered.
  4. I love the question and relate to it. I can't answer the questions, mine are the same and I am not yet an official swinger! But I have had a certain thought before on the subject of swinging versus cheating (because honestly, I have sometimes considered I would prefer he cheat- that way he gets what he wants and I don't have to take what i don't want) but another thing is- if he just cheats, he could get involved with a woman who falls in love with him and undertakes manipulations to pull him away from this marriage. The kind that get pregnant and such. Amongst swingers, there is MUCH less chance of that type of thing happening!
  5. Wow, Greg, that is some food for thought! I didn't even know it was possible for a man to get caught up in such a vicious cycle, and you are right to point it out as a potential one for someone in my situation if I let it get out of hand! Funny, I am responding now, when today is OUR anniversary (23 years). In the light of this internal conflict of mine, my husband is just saying "lets forget it, I don't need that.", but I know I will probably pursue this possibility anyway because I am always drawn towards challenging my own fears to overcome them. I was afraid to ride a horse once and that made me obsessed with learning to, when I realized I was afraid of galloping, I got a horse that had been racing and didn't know how to do anything but that! I was afraid of new situations and being dependant upon another person, so I left for a foriegn country I knew nothing about and didn't speak the language in, and was completely at the mercy of a man. It sounds crazy, but it has always seemed to me like within our fears lie the deepest wells of joy, just waiting to be tapped- if you can get past the demons blocking the entrance!!!
  6. Thanks for your counsel, pballer, I appreciate it. I do recognize that the two parts of me in conflict are both me- I just was trying to make my conflict more clear within the context of that posters question "maybe you are just not into sex with other people". The part I called my brain is more conscious, it is my belief system, it is my personality, my individual conscious will. It says "YES". The part I called my vagina is my less conscious part, where deep seated fears, survival mechanisms and defenses, are... it says "NO". I asked in another thread how swinger women have dealt with the question of trust- how they come to the conclusion that entering a huge room full of strangers, none of them there could possibly be insensitive or disrespectful or with less then good intent... how they can just engage in letting a totally unknown and physically stronger person enter your body and do what he wants with it. That takes a hell of a lot of trust, I would think. But not one answered. I guess I am the only female who doesn't have a basic trust in all men as being respectful and trustworthy towards women. I wish I was in the US, where it sounds like people talk first and get to know each other a slight bit before engaging. Here in France it is not like that. The people do not talk, and they do not want to get to know the other first. They also do not want to discuss any details first (like what you want or don't, what your limits are, etc.) Because they say that destroys the excitement of spontaneity.
  7. If only it could be that simple! Yes, my body, my internal urges, my physical reactions and reflexes are not into it. no doubt and I have expressed that. My mind, my ideas, my values, my conscious personality IS into it- thinks it is a "good" thing to do, finds a certain level of pleasure and mental stimulation in it. So which is the "I" here? Am I my vagina or my brain? It almost becomes this existential conflict between my masculine and feminine nature, Both parts trying to come to a middle ground where both get their needs and desires fulfilled to an extent. We are thinking that maybe some of this sort of exhibitionist type of stuff could be okay with me, if we form an agreement (at least for now, and just for me) that there will be no sex with anyone else, and he will agree to help protect me on that point. (because I get a little afraid of being overpowered by men who don't respect the "no"). He has thought for a while that I should try sex with women in these places, but though I have felt attracted to women before, it was not just sexual, I had affectionate and admiring feelings for those women as well- their mind and personality attracted me as much as the body. Just the body of a stranger I know nothing about it doesn't stir any interest.
  8. Well, we feel our relationship has become really strong, that is precisely why we started thinking we might be ready for that sort of step (even if I am being extra-cautious, and feeling ambivalences about it personally. )
  9. AS I wrote, after the experience in the club, I DID tell him, and he was very surprised, and confused, that it was so different for me (as was I!) I only took some time in telling him that I continued to feel disconnected and have problems in the following days- I was hoping to figure out why that was before talking to him about it. It took me a few days (and some soul searching here) but I have told him now and he is following this thread with me. He understands my reasons for wanting to figure out what is causing it first, and not wanting to share that with him right away.
  10. I want to respond to each of you separately, but I am on a break at work, so may have to make it short- but thank you, for being understanding and taking the time to give your thoughts. The question of maturity, and the capabilities of love (that REAL love is open this way, until you've gotten to that point, you aren't fully loving yet) is a real issue for me. I needed to hear what you guys feel about that. Can love be real even if one doesn't want to have sex with others? I don't mind him doing it, I am not possessive... I just find it very hard to trust strangers enough to let them into my body, and I don't like to have attention focused on me in ANY situation, sexual context or not, by strangers. My mother died fairly young, and I have achieved most of the things she dreamed of and never was able to succeed at doing. Maybe deep down this is one of those things for me. But I need to repeat- I DID tell my husband that our experience at the club was not good for me- I only took more time to tell him that I was still having problems since then (in the days that followed). He and I have talked about it now and I had him read everything I wrote here (he is following this now too). We are not that bad at communication. But he can only do so much in aiding me to figure out if I can get past my own issues and fears, or not. Again, thank you all so much for sharing so much, it means a lot to me.
  11. Thank you for your well thought out and expressed responses, they are much appreciated! I would like to clarify that we haven't been totally non-communicative on this issue- I may have given a false impression on that. I feel like we have been talking about it obsessively for weeks. Like I said, I did tell him how our first experience differed for me, I just hadn't told him that the problem had continued since, even at home alone. Writing all my feelings and thoughts here helped me a lot, and I am so appreciative of finding a group of people such as yourselves to share with and get feedback. I have struggled with the idea of doing this for years. I admit that in my gut, I do not feel drawn to this. BUT- I have other issues tied up in my past which make it more complicated. It is not just because my husband has brought it up that the question arises- in fact it might be me who has brought it up more, I am no longer sure. When I was very little, it was the end of the 60's, the early 70's, and my parents were very young, and experimenting with free love. They had an open marriage, and never made any attempt to protect us from the details of their relations. They had other lovers, they had group sex, they had bisexual relations (both). Much of this I walked in on and observed, a lot of it I heard about in their arguments. The marriage was over by the time I was 8, because my mom fell in love with one of her lovers. But up to that point, it was a very volatile situation, often turning violent and we spent lots of time in the emergency room when the problems of jealousy and such would get out of hand. The values I learned was that real adults, who are mature and know how to love for real, can do this open marriage stuff. It didn't work for them because they were too immature, perhaps their relationship needed more time to develop before setting out on that- they may have skipped too many steps. So I can't help but feel slightly ashamed of not doing this myself now. I keep thinking that at some point in my life I ill be mature enough, wise enough, strong enough... our relationship will be "ready" and able to set off on that next level. I feel ashamed of my immaturity that I have not been able to yet. So it is not enough to say there is a conflict of desires between my husband and I- that would be a cop out, just projecting. I have an internal conflict, an ambivalence of my own on the subject. This is enough to make me think that I might need to see if I can explore this world, if even for a limited period of time, to prove to myself that I am capable of it. After, if I come to the rational and calm decision that it is not for me, that is different- it is a choice made from first hand experience and knowledge of that which I speak, that can also help stop feeling so ashamed of my self at the same time. I know this sounds extremely complex, and I guess I can put on my flameproof suit now, as the "psychobabble" accusations arrive.... it would be easier to simply say my mate is putting pressure on me, I don't want to and I am a victim crap, and it would be easier for you, the reader to understand and give a definitive solution to that. But simple is not always truthful, nor always effective)- the issue would continue to arise for me even if we just (once again) decided not to try it. I'm a Capricorn, we don't always take the easy route, and I also tend to look for my weaknesses and fears exactly with the intent to push through them. But I also find it hard to be superficial, or to take anything lightly- which I see can be a big problem here, where the goal is to do exactly that with sex!
  12. Generally speaking, I like the idea of an experienced couple for our first time. But, so far, within the few we've listened to, observed, read, the most experienced people tend to be more aggressive than I can handle. Many seem outright hostile. They scare me. Perhaps it is because they are french. But the slightly less experienced (still french) seem a bit kinder and gentler overall. It makes me think it is like what I experience din the world of horsemanship, in which I started at the beginning thinking I wanted training from the best from the first steps on- the best can be quite out of touch with what it is like to be a beginner: they have forgotten, they have no patience, they have begun to enjoy being a challenge to those who already have the basic skills, in fine tuning only. They can crush you completely and not feel an ounce of regret for it, just saying you should have known better than to dare to come towards a being so vastly superior to yourself. Some part of me fears my first experience in the sport of swinging would be as awful as my first lessons in riding, where I ended up crying uncontrollably, and my buttocks bleeding, for a week. But what I learned there, and that I hope applies here, is that people are individuals, and though less experienced people may still have a bit of empathy left for the beginners (as it wasn't so long ago for them) there are people who simply enjoy teaching and re-experiencing first steps again through others. They are rare, but exist in all the different experience levels. I hope we can find people like that, with knowledge and experience.
  13. Both of your points seem valid- there might be some sort of hormonal factor (I may be in pre-menopause, but am on no medication), and the dishonesty about what I am feeling is not cool. I did explain to him that our experiences in a club were different- that I did not have an orgasm and that physically, I was not that turned on. That knocked him on his butt, he was really surprised, and a bit hurt, I think. Because to him, it felt like an incredibly intimate, loving and close experience- the opposite from what I felt. With my revelation, it was like- oh, I guess I was all alone then. Since that talk, I have been avoiding disclosing that the problem continues, because I don't want to hurt his feelings. But you are right, I should be more honest and I am determined to do so. Wierd thing though, since yesterday, I am noticing a marked difference in my sensations in the genital area, closer to what they were in the past before this problem. I wonder if it has been "all in my head" and I just needed to get down to what was bothering me subconsciously in order to let it go? Men say their body is effected against their will by things like worries or stress or emotional conflict.... it is probably true for women too. I also suspect (since this morning) that he is reading this. He's away on business, and his messages give me the idea he might have decided to look in here. I guess that is what I would have done too. I should have thought of that. So if you are reading this sweety, I hope you are not upset, and we'll talk tonight..... or maybe we won't need to. Actions speak louder than words.
  14. My boss. He already seems to watch me lustfully, and that would just make it worse. Ick.
  15. Thank you. I recognize the wisdom of your words. I do intend to talk with him and be more honest on this point, as soon as I have a better idea of what is going on in me. I need to specify that my husband and I are of different nationalities and language- he is french, I am american. By now we both speak both languages, but the subtilities of language plus cultural differences have shown us that we need to be careful in communication to avoid misunderstandings and hurting each other unintentionally. I'd like to cut through my confusing emotions and find the essentials as much as possible before attempting this discussion with him. He's a good guy. He adores me, he is sensitive, and sometimes my gut reactions to his different ways of being can hurt his feelings (and vice versa). Something about being so "visual" turns me off. It makes me feel insecure, unloved (even though intellectually like I said, I know that isn't true). I am not a bad looking woman, I was pushed into modeling when younger and I have always felt a bit resentful of people who pay attention to looks instead of what is inside. It makes me angry. wow. Now I am hitting my own buttons. I am feeling fury coming up. Dammit. This is it. I finally felt like I was loved for who I am inside, and this whole visual-exhibitionist surge has me feeling like an object, a trophy wife he wants to show off (and share, but only if he thinks the guy is good enough ). This is where I am filled with ambivalence that blocks me. My mind being totally understanding about men being more visual in general, even if they are very much in love, and my emotions being resentful of the focus on appearence as objectifying. The poor guy does all he can to let me know that he ALSO loves me deeply, but I think I have issues that are in the way, and it is not his fault. My conscious mind and intellect can reason all this out and comprehend him, but my body is apparently not under that same jurisdiction. It is refusing to cooperate.
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