pants_1

Surprise anal is hands-down the best! Er... when it is a suprise for the "pitcher," not necessarily when it is a surprise for the "catcher."

Well, as some of you know, I'm in the midst of the transition to poly. Right now, my wife has a boyfriend (that's what I call him, anyway), and another possible hookup waiting in the wings. She and her boyfriend actually just had their first fight the other day... aww... I'm not active, partly by choice... I'm looking, but taking it very slowly. Apart from the fact that I'd just like to have more sex (my sex drive is a bit higher than my wife's), I'm in no real hurry to do anything. With all the recent drama, I don't feel like precipitating any more crises until the recent ones have calmed down. The whole poly thing was something she has wanted for a long time (since we met, really). I don't have a problem with it, as long as the "primary" relationship stays strong. That seems to set off everyone's warning bells, except mine. I have gotten a lot of flak; some mistakes were made, and some drama has resulted. We didn't follow some of the swinging rules (and some logical safety rules too, but that has been dealt with), and that has bothered some people on the board. I don't mean to sound ungrateful... I've gotten lots of great support and advice. But I do think the situation is a simply different, and I am honestly a little afraid of being judged. So that's where I am.

Ok, everybody, I thought I'd just give you a one-week update. In short, so far, so good. My wife and I have had some very good, very frank discussions about a whole lot of things this past week. We've uncovered some major miscommunications on a number of important issues (gee, you think?). Most importantly, we (or at least I) have discovered that some of the things I thought were gone from our marriage are actually still there. After thinking long and hard about what I want (thanks to everyone who suggested that), I feel that even if our marriage doesn't improve, I'm actually pretty happy with where we are, and I want to keep going. Those feelings are certainly mutual. We are also very clear on the safety issues that have been a major concern during this recent crisis. We are on the same page regarding how dangerous her actions were, and, without making threats or ultimatums, it is clear that further behavior like that id going to seriously compromise our relationship. My wife has explained her actions to me in detail. I may come across sounding like a patsy or a chump for saying this, but I understand why she acted so rashly, and I have forgiven her for hurting my feelings and for scaring the living crap out of me. There are still strong emotions involved here... some hurt feelings, some latent mistrust, some jealousy, some feelings of inadequacy, some basic confusion about how to handle what has become a much more complex "emotional landscape." But we are supporting each other, and trying to learn how to separate the various feelings and deal with them, so that they don't fester. I am heartened because the more "negative" emotions I feel are not directed toward my wife, but are mostly internal feelings. This situation has forced me to deal with nearly every major insecurity and long-term problem I have, and in some ways, it maybe a good opportunity to grow past those problems. I am still in the process of exploring what I want out of our "arrangement." We've been making use of the resources suggested (on another thread) regarding polyamory, and both of us have been talking with other people about how they go about their non-traditional approach to adult relationships. I suspect that, in the end, I'm going to be very very picky about my extramartial associations. Yes, that means I will be having a LOT fewer of them than otherwise; I still think that "keeping score" is the absolute wrong approach for me. I am still on hiatus, but don't think I'll be off the market for long. I've been out meeting people, trying to redevelop my own social life, trying to get a handle on where I am going. In the mean time, just meeting people with the possibility that something might happen is very exciting, and I'm having a great time. People like labels, and I think that, to be fair, I am going to stop using the terms "swinging" and "swinger" to describe myself within "lifestyle" circles, because they carry connotations that I am not sure apply to me. However, thanks to some very kind, wonderful people, I"m exploring exactly what those connotations are in a safe environment, so that I can make those choices in a careful, informed manner. And, honestly, it is just fun to hang out with folks who are that straightforward about what they want, and what they do! So, anyway, I just wanted to let you all know where we are. It is still very much a work in progress, like any relationship. But it is something WE are working on together, because WE want to, not because we feel forced to. It may very well not work out, but if it doesn't, it won't be because we didn't try! Thanks again for all your help! Jon

You have all offerred a tremendous amount of good thought and good advice along with your support on this thread. I am grateful for everyone's efforts. This one particular story has stood out in my mind so much I have used it to explain my position to my wife. Not because I think it sounds like the best idea... but you were flexible enough to keep from snapping when the wind picked up. You took a passive situation, something being done TO you, and became actively involved without taking over. You set aside what most people would assume was the right thing to do, and took your own path. And you showed tremendous compassion. And no, I did notice that was an "ex-wife," so I assume things eventually didn't work out. But I don't think anyone can say you didn't try to find a way to make things work!

I don't think you'll be expected to explain that until any of us can explain ANYTHING about why we do what we do.

We are making progress on the trust issue, and discovering a SERIOUS comunication deficit from over the past few months (duh). Unfortunately, this situation has played into both of our insecurities, and the result has been a lot of hurt feelings, paranoia, and anger. We have accepted responsibility for our respective parts in those miscommunications, and she has acknowledged that she took some grave risks. For right now, we are at the "talking this out and seeking help" stage. While I recognize that this situation could still turn bad, and I could be leaving myself open for a thwomping, my wife is very important to me, and I'm committed to trying to make things work for us. If I am leaving myself open to her "turning on me," I'm not taking that risk blindly. I really do appreciate everyone's advice. However, since my previous posting was apparently too subtle, let me put this blunty: please stop talking about divorce! If I were planning anything (which I am currently not), discussing this on a public board that my wife already knows about would be tipping my hand. Even if I don't discuss it, she knows I've been a little upset, and that I've been checking on things all this weekend trying to figure out what's going on. When (not if) she eventually looks at this thread, she's already going to feel a little upset that sides were taken "against her." The more everyone discusses it, the harder it is going to be for her to keep from feeling paranoid. So, please, please give the divorce talk a rest. I am so grateful for everyone's help. Just help me on this one thing.

On the advice of several folks out there, I've decided it would be better if I didn't post anything for a while. She is home safely, and we plan to work hard toward resolving this situation in the best possible manner. But right now the focus has to be on the two of us communicating with each other. I appreciate everyone's support and advice this weekend. It has made a miserable situation bearable [sic?... damn I'm tired!].

slevin, I hear you. I think that she left at all means that she doesn't respect me, no? I don't think I'm going to "accept" it. We are going to have to talk about it, because it is a serious breach of trust, and suggests that there may be deeper problems. I will be looking for women, regardless. However, I don't think it is a good idea to do so at this particular moment, "on the rebound" as it were. The potential for drama is too great. Also, I am going through this in a very public forum, and I can't just go around talking to women pretending there is nothing wrong. On the other hand... "hey, I'd like to meet up. Just let me finish having a prolonged discussion with my wife about the future of our marriage." I'm not going to do anything precipitous, unless it is forced on me. I can't... there's a child involved. I'm not going to ignore it, though. We have things to talk about. Or not talk about. But there has to be an element of mutual decision here. Believe it or not, I am planning to focus on what I want. Right now, though, I have a serious deadline for school, so that will be most of what I do. It does make me happy, so that's ok. And a friend is going to take me out on the town soon, just for fun! Thanks! Jon

IvoryTowers, Very good advice! I already have professional help, for unrelated issues, and we spoke on the phone today. I have insurance as a TA, so I'm only out the copay! I do like the end date idea a lot. I'm concerned that it might carry the wrong connotations, though. I can't really set a date without discussing it with my wife: I don't want to take unilateral action. I also don't want to be cloak-and-dagger, and even if I did, she has access to everything on these boards. And if she knows I'm thinking about an end date (or "failsafe date") she might not feel as committed to making whatever it is we decide to do work. Or maybe she would be moreso... I dunno. Fear of change is what I've been dealing with all weekend. I think I'll be ready. Hope that things will get better isn't really an issue either. She's not going to suddenly start feeling differently. The "best" outcome for the relationship (not necessarily the best for us, I don't know) would be for us to accept the situation as it is now, and move on happily with our lives. It's not going magically turn into something it hasn't been for years. Not now.

Socolais, I don't think that comments are unhelpful at the time just because you later change your mind. The many different takes presented here have really helped me develop perspective on my situation (still developing). And don't think I haven't noticed that you guys are "keeping me talking." Basic emotional crisis management. Very much appreciated... It's not a milestone, it is a crossroads... one of those awful, formerly rural crossroads near the core of cities that grew too rapidly, where five roads come together at odd angles, and there is no way to go straight through. I don't know if she is reevaluating anything right now, but I'm sure she will eventually. I don't think she'll "take sex away from me," we don't have much anyway. We'll probably have more, assuming I feel comfortable with it. As for happiness... I am currently considering my son first. I think we've moved well past "chance to adventure." And no, I don't think I'll feel slighted, And I am pretty sure I'll eventually have my own extramarital relations, as it were. Even in my very unsuccessful single life, I still got laid... and I'm much better at it now. As for the cheese... wow, that is nice and cheesy! I think you may have missed some of the meat of the previous posts (there are so many, by now). Our appreciation has already changed, although so far not in a productive direction. Growing closer is a possibility, but I am inclined to favor the position espoused by others, that swinging cannot fix a broken marriage. Trying to repair this situation could help, but that depends a great deal on whether both parties think the situation is broken As of right now, only one side thinks there is a problem.

For what it is worth, I think it'd be nice to have a picture of your male half up too, so the ladies can get an idea of what they can expect.

Morbid curiosity? Very interesting questions... I only have a very few potential playmates, and all are internet-based. Under the circumstances, I elected to contact them and inform them that drama was occurring, and that I wasn't really going to be playing anytime soon. I wasn't to that stage with anyone anyway, but I've tried to make it clear that that this is an extraordinary situation, and I'm not planning to take it personally if anyone wants to excuse themselves from the situation entirely. And I try not to make that sound like a guilt-trip! Reaction has been pretty reasonable. Friends and potential playmates have been sympathetic to me, but also have tried to understand her position. Of course, given that it is filtered through me, my evolving understanding of her position colors their reactions significantly. Apart from the safety issues, and general concerns for my feelings though, people seem to be being reasonable.

Ivory, 1. I agree. She really does care about me. From what she's said, she feels that she's done enough sacrificing for the marriage. She would point out that she never planned to get married to anyone. Although these were mutual decisions, she didn't want to move to Austin for my career (although I nixed Berkeley, partly because she didn't want to go), she wanted to adopt, not have a "birth child," etc. etc. Abandoning the traditional marriage model is apparently what she was thinking all along... we badly miscommunicated on what she meant. What she had in mind was live-in FWB. As pointed out on another thread, that isn't really a marriage. or to quote another song: "it's harder to be friends than lovers and you shouldn't try to mix the two 'cause if you do it and your still unhappy then you know that the problem is you." 2. I get you completely. We're both children of divorce (her of several), and I am not for "staying together for the kids." On the other hand, there's a difference between four- and ten years old. We have the former. We are also both students, and we can barely maintain one household between us. Under the circumstances, it is looking alot like my best option is to "take one for the team" here. Of course, I'm a stewer, naturally passive agressive, with a touch of a martyr complex (damn you mom), so I'm a little worried about whether I can do it without making things worse. 3. My thoughts exactly. But I'm not sure what it is about. It is NOT about the sex, per se. But she isn't attracted to me except occasionally, and she is apparently attracted to this guy, so in that sense, it is about sex... having sex with someone she really wants to. But I don't know if she will need more, different partners, or more risks, or whatever. She says she just wants some kind of long-term relationship with someone she can meet a few times a year. Her rationale for running out to meet up with this guy is that he is in a very similar situation to ours (staying with his wife only because they have an autistic son... wait, that's similar to our situation?!?!), and he has similar tastes and goals. She is an adrenaline junky, meaning that she can't go without challenging herself, being a little on the edge. I was very concerned that this was an adrenaline thing, but I think now that it was a desperation thing... I think she was looking at this as her chance to be happy. She wants to have someone to do her extreme sports with. Sharing that stuff apparently is the key to her finding someone attractive. She found a likely prospect, and was willing to risk it all to see if it would work. For anyone worrying about things, she's alive, as of 9:00 this morning. Sounds fine. They have consummated whatever it is they are doing. She could still be in danger, but I'm significantly less worried. She was curt and self-conscious, but from the sound of things, she's not unhappy with the guy. At least something good is coming of this.

Thanks Slevin, I think I do understand. I just wish I really did know what would make me the most happy, and what would best serve the needs of my son. to do that, I kind of need to understand why she is doing what she is doing, because the one thing I really need if this is to continue is to be able to trust her, and that's gettting harder by the minute. But since she's not here to discuss, I'll end up stewing about what she's done. Thinks I. And yes, at this point I think she would be very defensive if she joined this discussion, and, given what's been said, I wouldn't blame her. Not that I don't appreciate people's thoughts, mind you. Speaking of positive thoughts... one of the advantages of having taken the whole swinging/ open/ alternative/ whatever lifestyle thing very seriously for the past few weeks is that, if we can patch things up and build back the trust, the fact that she will have (presumeably) had sex outside our marriage is not going to be as big an impediment as it would be in a vanilla relationship. Last point: I am guilty of sending her mixed signals. I asked her to please not go. But when it was clear she was going to go, I told her I wanted her to have a good time. And I kind of do... there's not point in her doing all of this and not enjoying it. And I can't really lay a huge guilt trip on her for it. I really wanted to just excuse myself from the whole thing.

Julie: Under the circumstances, I have altered my profile on this and all other sites to reflect my current status. What made you smile? I don't follow you. LikeMinds: I have taken your advice, and pulled the close-up face shots. If I ever decide to go hunting again, I'll consider what you suggest. Thanks very much for your feedback! Jon