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megauxurious

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About megauxurious

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  • Birthday 01/18/1959

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  1. According to a relatively recent survey of swingers in "Electronic Journal of Human Sexuality, Volume 12, January 23, 2009 Electronic Journal of Human Sexuality The Swinging Paradigm: An Evaluation of the Marital and Sexual Satisfaction of Swingers" the divorce rate of both male and female swingers is around 39%. This is still lower than the general population. Most relationships were of long standing too. Quite possibly most of the divorces occurred prior to swinging so the divorce rate of active swingers may be even lower. The author also administered a marital and a sexual satisfaction (with usual partner) questionnaire and swingers were well above average on both. In fact they were well above average for even satisfying marriages. With those results one would expect very low divorce rates among swingers.
  2. Thanks VegasLee. My interpretation of what you say is that swingers are not merely changing from being married to being single, they are ending relationships in order to enter new ones, and that the cause seems to be the cultural shift toward including friendship and emotional exchanges in swinging. In other words swinging has become more like polyamory in the last decade? I accept what you say although I would like to see a proper survey that controls for various things. One thing that makes me unsure though is that the single polyamory survey I could find shows divorce rates no worse than the general population, so if swingers were becoming more polyamorous I wouldn't expect that to make their divorce rate rocket past the general public figure. On the other hand my reading of polyamory does give me he impression of instability and rampant jealousy so it wouldn't surprise me if polyamory divorce figures were much higher than average. Polyamorous people deliberately enter into their relationships with prior preparation and the expectation of multi-emotional connections. It could be that swingers are falling into poly-relationships unexpectedly and unprepared and are less careful about it. That many of the divorced are dropping out of swinging and joining the church is interesting but we have to be careful about anecdotal evidence, it could be that you selectively remember those cases.
  3. That's interesting VagasLee. I'm a psychologist and a statistician so please understand my interest and forgive my questioning below. As far as I know the general public divorce rate has stabilized or declined in the last decade. If the swinger divorce rate has gotten much worse over the same time period there is something interesting afoot that should be investigated. We need to see if your anecdotal evidence is accurate. You mention that the LifeStyle has changed dramatically in the last 10 years. How? Gould's book The Lifestyle implies a significantly greater proportion of people are becoming swingers. Do you think this is a factor i.e. more people unsuited to it are trying it? Has the way the LS is practiced changed significantly? Can you detect some pattern in who among swingers are divorcing and who not e.g. does it vary by education? What reasons do the swingers getting divorced in your personal group give? Are the divorces acrimonious or amicable? Are they choosing singlehood or do most get remarried? Do they still swing? I am really very very interested in your impressions. If there has been an increase in swinger divorce rates I don't believe it could be due to a partial move toward polyamory because a survey of the polyamorous community showed a divorce history no different to the general population. I also don't believe there has been a change in the type of people who are swinging because they were a pretty good sample of the general population 10 years ago and when I suggested a year ago that they were smarter than average almost everyone said they were still pretty much a representative sample. I need to see more recent studies - are you aware of any?
  4. A study (it is on the web) entitled Today's Alternative Marriage Styles: The Case of Swingers by Bergstrand, C & Williams, JB administered 41 questions to 1092 swingers from a variety of local (Michigan I think) clubs and compared their answers to the general public as seen on the General Social Survey. The mean time of involvement in swinging was 5 yrs. I guess being a swinging club member who has been involved in swinging for a few years qualifies as a real swinger. Now to answer your question. Swingers valued family about the same as the general adult public (if not more). Both groups valued companionship more than personal freedom (at least on average) however the swinger group were significantly less inclined to want to make divorce more difficult. A subtle attempt was made to tap whether respondents had been abused in childhood, on the grounds that it is implicated in sex addictions. Swingers came out slightly less likely to have been abused but the difference wasn't significant. They report that 73.7% are married, 6.3% divorced, 1.6% separated, 11.7% in a committed relationship and 6.7% single. Average number of marriages is 1.5 and the mean length of marriage was 10.5 years. They quote another study that says 60% of first time marriages end in divorce. An average of 1.5 marriages implies that at MOST 50% of ever married swingers have ever been divorced. That is less than the general population. This swinger sample however constitutes successful swingers and excludes those who tried and stopped. So all one can say is that if you, as a married couple, can swing successfully, your marriage is likely to be more stable than average. It doesn't prove swinging contributes. However other questions suggest swinging does contribute. The swingers reported happier marriages than average (23% more likely to be very happy) and 62% said swinging made their marriages happier (there were no gender differences). Only 1.7% overall say swinging decreased their marital happiness. 49.7 of those who say they were very happy before swinging claim swinging made their marriages even happier, while at the other end of the scale 90.4% of those who say they were unhappy before swinging claimed an improvement due to swinging. With respect to their lives in general swingers show an even more pronounced happiness advantage over the general population than they do with respect to marriage (83% more likely to be very happy this time). I figure the evidence is probably on the side of swinging being good for the marriage of any couple who can accept it. Certainly there is no evidence that it makes marriage worse. Let me know if this helps.
  5. I recently downloaded a survey of polyamorists and notice that some religions/denominations are hugely overrepresented and others underrepresented. In the over- group are paganism and Unitarian/Universalism, and in the under-group are Protestants and especially Catholics. The new poll on swinging and religion doesn't ask about paganism or Unitarianism specifically but I wonder if these are overrepresented among swingers too. Any thoughts? There were similar interesting findings with respect to political preferences but I'm not sure its permissible to discuss that on this forum.
  6. There is a site called The Authentic Woman's Penis Size Preference Chart. It plots both circumference and length preferences separately and colour codes the result according to whether the dimensions are unsatisfying, merely enjojable, satisfying, very satisfying and ideal. Ideal is between 7.25 and 8.25 inches long and 6 to 6.5 inches in circumference. Very satisfying is between 6 and 9 inches long and 5.75 and 6.75 inches in diameter. Ron Jeremy would be rated as slightly too large to be very satisfying but would still be satisfying. The average sized guy aparently rates a mere 'enjoyable' and nearly half of all men would rate as 'unsatisfying' according to this survey. Sobering stuff.
  7. Thank you all for thoughtful replies. I may disagree with you about my obligation to provide my sources ON THIS FORUM - even if the source is demanded, but I have decided it would be common courtesy to do so for those who really want them. You are right it is easy - both for me to post the source if I know it and you to follow my pointers - but I must confess I am a bit of a computer/internet-phobe and I actually don't know how to set up links and the like. I will try to provide sources where I can do so without what I consider undue effort. I realise I haven't proved myself an expert and can't expect you to just take my word for stuff, on the other hand being seen as the resident expert is not my purpose for joining this forum so forgive me if I sometimes decide its not worth my while to spend ages looking up sources. I don't have access to e-journals because I don't want to pay for them. WRT to IQ and its correlates I have been through many thousands of articles and maybe 100 books and many conferences and have worked for many years as a psychometrician so my knowldge feels to me like knowing how to breath and I sometimes forget that isn't the case for everyone - that some don't know the average IQ is 100 or what a correlation is. For example the finding that liberal/tolerant/open-minded attitudes to alternative lifestyles tends - quite strongly - to go with high IQ has been covered in so many papers that I feel somewhat at a loss to mention a few as sources. It seems reasonable to me to just quote it as a well known fact even if it isn't well known because any kind of search at all will confirm it. Still you may disagree and if you do I'll try to provide sources. The swinger survey may be out of date (2000) but it is both the most recent one and the most adequate and comprehensive one I've seen in the literature. If anyone knows of any more recent academic studies on swingers I would be thrilled if you could tell me where to find them. I've got an interesting one on swinger values.
  8. Look I don't propose to get into an arguement. I'm not here for that. I have been trying to get out of academic mode - not further into it. All I can say is that my giving you the direct sources in the manner of references to a thesis hasn't made it any easier for you to find them than if you just followed my pointers. If you were really interested you would have found them long ago. Is it not permissable to mention research findings if I remember the conclusions but can no longer find the precise source? Most of my knowledge is like that. I don't have references in my head and I have copies of only a tiny fraction of the articles I have read. Yes if need be I can probably find sources for everything I say but it will sometimes cost me weeks of work. Sometimes I am going to think 'just take my word for it, look it up yourself or tell me I'm talking rubbish' because its just too much trouble to look for the source. I am not trying to do research on the forum so I don't have to satisfy a professor or the academic world. I'm just trying to have an interesting conversation here - not establish my academic credentials. I was telling you what I think the relationship is between intelligence and swinging and why I think so. Please regard it as a light conversation. I feel this requirement for me to provide full sources on demand for everything I say on this forum is just anal where it doesn't need to be. Nevertheless if my failure to provide my sources in the form you demanded, or when you demanded them, upset you, then I sincerely apologise. I do want to keep people happy even if I don't live up to it.
  9. I had a similar experience except that it wasn't a comment about size but performance. In a MMF the other guy was licking her and she suddenly felt compelled to say to me that he wasn't as good as me. Unfortunately he heard her comment which I'm sure dampened his mood a bit. I think maybe she felt her enjoying the overall experience so much would bother me and she needed to compensate somehow. I have managed to re-assure her that I get a lot out of her enjoyment and the better it is for her the more excited I get.
  10. OK I have given pointers to where you can find my sources before but let me try again. The swinger survey I am referring to is: Today's alternative marriage styles: the case of swingers Curtis Bergstrand & Fennifer Blevis Williams and the study showing peak sexual success at moderately below average IQs is: Gene Expression: Intercourse and Intelligence Jasson Malloy Both are easily found online. The latter particularly contains a lot of other references if you want to go into it. My source on Kohlberg's theories are my psychology textbooks but his theories and empirical research on them can be found quite easily online - as I pointed out a few posts ago. I don't think its all that important though. Ratimadan argues well that given the range of alternatives swinging is obviously an intelligent choice - quite apart from whether there is an IQ correlation or not. Nevertheless I am convinced that it is also true that intelligent people are more likely to make the swinger choice from the alternatives available and I think it likely that the average swinger is fractionally smarter than the general population average. As a matter of interest IQ is negatively correlated with acceptance of astrology, alien abduction and the like but positively correlated with acceptance of alternative lifestyles like homosexuality, drug use and swinging. I'm afraid my source on that is my memory of lots of studies but if you really want to check it you can by accessing the General Social Survey which contains an abbreviated IQ test (called Wordsum) that can be correlated online with hundreds of survey questions. Oh yes one of my sources of the relationship between IQ and attitude to swinging is my own research project relating sexual attitudes and behavior to personality. There is also my observation that among Mensa members swinging (both the practice of and tolerance toward) is far higher than even the most generous general population estimate. Granted that's not a scientific survey checked by some other scientist but I know its an underestimate because I only counted those who have confessed their practice or attitude to me personally. So all my sources from the academic literature to my personal observations point in the same direction - from the alternatives swinging is both the choice of the smart and a smart choice.
  11. I apologize if my writing is a bit tortured. Lets see if I can make one more stab at making my point clearer. The research shows that the highest probability of getting laid (kissed, holding hands, multiple partners and anything sexual) occurs at moderately below average IQs 85-90. Smarter people are less able or attractive (the research says it isn't a lack of will or interest) in this area. If 5 out of 10 people at IQ 70-90 could be deemed successful when it comes to getting sex from others, then only 3 out of 10 people with IQs from 110-130 will satisfy the same definition of success. I'm not making those numbers up - that's what the research statistics say. Now if swingers are at least as smart as the general population (and nobody has suggested that they are less intelligent) then the bell curve says roughy 13% of swingers will be in each group - IQs 70-90 and 110-130. So higher IQ swingers come from a smaller pool of sexually successful people than lower IQ swingers do. So if you are sexually successful and have an IQ between 110-130 then you are 67% more likely to be a swinger than a sexually successful person with an IQ in the 70-90 range. If swingers are somewhat smarter on average then the effect is much more marked. What this probably means is that smart people who have found the means to get sex from a variety of others are less likely to do so via the single scene or by cheating than low IQ people who know how to get sex. It is known that never marrying and divorce is higher in low IQ groups for example. Most of us (swingers) will agree that swinging is a better choice than cheating. So of the alternatives swinging seems one of the smarter choices. Certainly when it comes to attitudes toward swinging then acceptance of it increases fast as IQ increases. Acceptance doesn't necessarily translate into practice but I think it reasonable to conclude that those most accepting of swinging are more likely to practice it if they are in the multiple partner market.
  12. I am not merely conjecturing that swingers have higher IQs than average. It follows logically from the fact that groups known to have higher IQs are over-represented in swinger surveys e.g. a greater proportion of college graduates, or more high income earners, etc, than the general population. But suppose that result is purely because surveys sample the smarter swingers and that the swinger IQ distribution is indistinguishable from that of the general population. I will argue that it still means swinging is an intelligent choice. For a start it is very well established (Google "Intercourse and Intelligence" to trace references) that higher IQ people have less success getting sexual partners - no doubt about it. But therein lies the paradox. Those most successful at getting sex from others have IQs moderately below average - 85 for men and 95 for women - and sexual success falls off rapidly as IQ increases. Now if swingers are smarter than the most sexually successful group - and they MUST be if they are intellectually like the general population - then I can argue that swinging is a successful sexual strategy employed by those usually sexually handicapped by their intelligence. In fact if being a swinger counts as being sexually successful, then the following rule follows logically. If you are getting laid by a variety of sexual partners, and you are very smart, then the chances are good that you are a swinger. Sounds like an intelligent choice to me.
  13. Its also been my view that most of the variation in a woman's judgement about whether the sex is good or not is determined by variations in her mood before it starts. I also think thrusting skill probably makes up a small fraction, 10% say, of all sexual technique skills. Nevertheless it's useful to know that once you have found the pace and technique that works best for her at that moment, one needs to maintain that exact combination until she is satisfied. To do that you need some sense of rhythm i.e. a sense of whether your rhythm is changing or not, good control over your rhythm, and being able to delay orgasm while you maintain that rhythm i.e. not delay it by stopping. Then finding the right rhythm entails being able to start at a promising one and vary it at will while paying attention to response cues you are getting. Apart from some guys not listening, they are definitely not equally able in all those rhythm skills. Guys are very different in how well they can find and stick to something as simple as the appropriate rhythm of marching in time to a beat so I find it difficult to believe there aren't major differences in thrusting skills. I do however accept that thrusting skills are a minor part of the overall sexual experience and even of the pure technique side of things. I guess the psychology of what creates serious excitement at any moment is much more interesting and important than thrusting technique. Novelty and elements of taboo seem to be big factors but those are difficult to keep pulling off. I wonder what the principles are that one's sexual "buttons" are built upon.
  14. I'm not doing a thesis. My motive for the skill question came from a female colleague once telling me that sex is a skill like sport - that some guys are just so much better at the mechanics. I was unable to get her to explain what kind of thing made one guy's mechanics better than another. I just thought this might be the perfect group of people to ask. Also in the 2 MMFs we have had the other guys had a very different styles of thrusting to mine and my wife didn't like the sensation of either very much. On the other hand in a couple experience the guy's thrusting style really did it for her. I'm really curious. If there are differences in skill at the mechanics then I would like to acquire the good ones as best I can.
  15. I understand that playing may often be more like head banging heavy metal than violin playing but the point is that even there some heavy metal hits the spot and other heavy metal doesn't. 1. Are there large differences in how good a guy's thrusting "music" is or are they all pretty much alike? 2. If the answer to 1 is yes what do you think makes the difference? My sense is that yes there are differences but in experienced swingers there is a much narrower range of skills with most being reasonably good. I also have one answer that points to listening to responses until one finds the right pace and force and then stick to it. Anyone disagree? If that's it then do men differ a lot in their ability to listen and stick to a rhythm? I imagine that someone who has trouble delaying his own orgasm is going to have trouble making good thrusting "music" even if he does listen well. Also even with the best of intentions and good endurance there must be some coordination differences that make a difference in how it feels. Certainly it does in dancing. With equal experience and similar motivations the movements of dance partners feel very different - some much better than others. What I'm looking for here in the description of thrusting are things like smooth versus jerky or short versus long strokes or consistency versus constant changing. What feels better? That's question 2. Question 1 is whether men differ a lot or just a little in how good their thrusting feels?
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