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DKent

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About DKent

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    M. Male
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    Los Angeles
  1. I was curious, not being involved in the Lifestyle other than in my fantasies at the moment...who amongst you like to kiss the total stranger you're banging crotches with, and who saves that most intimate of practices for the SO? It seems that it might be undesirable at times to kiss that person you just met, even though sex with them is fun. Comments?
  2. I'm one of those men on the other side of the fence. I've tried to convince my wife I love her madly and she excites me sexually. But it comes down to a self-esteem issue, for both my wife and your hubby. You need to address this aspect more than anything else. Have you both been reading the posts here on the forum? If he has too, I can't see how he doesn't realize that a spouse wishing to swing doesn't imply dissatisfaction with their significant other. The fact he's been sexually-charged by it all is a good indicator. You just need to talk it out more. The truth is, a spouse can bring everything into the sexual relationship, except variety. And variety is a big part of swinging, and no spouse can be expected to provide that, so it is not a shortcoming in any way..... Good luck....
  3. The answer to that is three simple words: No. No. and No. If you've moved into a new realm with your wife, one of mutual communication, trust, and openness, wonderful. Leave the past behind, both the vanilla relationship you and she had and also the clandestine life you led. This is a fresh start, and dragging the baggage of the past will do absolutely no good but to undermine the newfound trust and symbiosis you both share. The price you'll pay for your cheating will be whatever guilt you carry. The price she'll pay if you tell her will be much greater though, and no one will benefit. Even the late Ann Landers, conservative matron of the syndicated columns, repeatedly admonished former cheaters from "coming clean" for whatever misguided benefits of total honesty and disclosure they thought they'd achieve. It was usually harmful to the relationship and the marriage. I have cheated on my wife for years and decided I no longer wish to do so. I've tried to introduce the idea of swinging - even the most elementary forms of it - to her. I want to share everything with her, including all my sexuality. She is not interested at all, and that admission of mine did caused a rift and some minor scarring to a long, trusting marriage. Can you imagine if she knew my past of infidelity? But even if she said OK to giving it a try, I'd never drop that bomb on her. So, again, swallow it, my friend, and consider yourself quite fortunate your lady is agreeable to non-monogamous fun - with you.
  4. Bruce: I agree - that intense sexual newlywed "buzz" you get while courting, or just-married, is what I hear all the time from swingers. How could you NOT want to have that a regular, ongoing part of your life? In fact, when I actually thought there was a slim chance my wife might be interested in just "looking into" the lifestyle, I had a bounce in my step and fullness in my pants - even during the day when she wasn't even there - that made me feel so alive, so charged with energy, so incredibly "in love" with her! And that was just on the slightest chance of her agreeing to think about it! I had a dumb grin on my face no matter how my day was going! I tried to explain this to her, but how do you explain color to a blind man? Music to a deaf person? If it's totally contrary to anything within the scope of her reason, it no different than preaching Christianity to an atheist. The nudity part, well, there is one thing pending on this topic. I had booked a couple of nights for us at the very popular Terra Cotta Inn in Palm Springs, Calif., while she was still trying to make sense of all this, and she agreed to it as long as she didn't have to disrobe herself. I told her it is "clothing optional", which means exactly the same as "nudity optional" and I'm perfectly happy with that. If she chooses to wear her swimsuit or whatever makes her comfortable, I'm just happy she's there with me, while my weenie is flapping in the breeze. And if she becomes too uncomfortable around all those naked people (it's NOT a swing club, but nudity implies sexual relations in her mind, I'm sure), we can retire to our room, or leave. No pressure, no expectations. So, since that was long-ago booked and it's impossible to get a room there without booking many months in advance, we decided to keep the reservations and just go have a new experience. There are evening activities in Palm Springs we can visit if she's not comfortable at the Inn in the hot tub or whatever. I really do not expect her to "get into it", but people keep telling me you just never know.
  5. GrayGo, you're probably right about the body image thing too. I was going to add in my original post that a woman needs a good self-esteem and good self-image to feel comfortable putting herself "out there". I think most porn does nothing to help this as they usually portray models with tight, "perfect" bodies, tits by DuPont, stylishly shaved or trimmed pussies, and a look most women cannot match up with. Trouble is, we men do not necessarily require that look in our women, or even desire it (I for one am more into smaller breasts and a natural look, including unshaved pubes! Hail the groovy Sixties!). I tell my 50-year old brunette, green-eyed wife, who is 5'2, 125 lbs, b-cup, and often mistaken for a 35-year old, just how pretty and sexy she is all the time - but regardless - she looks at herself in the mirror and finds fault. I guess our society is pretty brutal on a woman's self-image. Those who can overcome the marketing department's version of visual perfection are definitely better candidates for stripping off their clothes in the presence of strangers.
  6. I'm a happily-married man, 52, with a wife, 50, in a "vanilla" marriage. I recently suggested us investigating the swinging lifestyle, and it didn't go over as well as I'd hoped. Since then, after much discussion, research, talking with others in the lifestyle and those who might wish to be but for one of the spouses not interested, I've learned this: There are three basic tenets to a woman (or a man, I suppose) to be open to swinging - and I mean, to do it willingly, and embrace it, not merely tolerate it for the other's sake. 1) The lady must be able to separate "romantic sex" from "recreational sex". In other words, sex between you two can be loving and romantic, an expression of your bond and commitment to one another, but she needs to be able to see a different type of activity in which sex is merely for the fun, variety, and physical pleasures it brings - like a good massage - but without it carrying any deeper meaning or "expression of love" like you're own private lovemaking does. If she cannot separate romantic sex from recreational sex, swinging is not for her and therefore, not for you. 2) The lady must enjoy, or at least be consciously willing to, being seen by other people in the nude. There must be at least some "exhibitionist gene" in her that derives pleasure from others seeing her body. Likewise, she must have some "voyeur gene" as well, to be comfortable seeing other people naked, and in fact, engaged in sexual activities. If she is too conservative or modest to be comfortable undressed in front of other people, or is not comfortable seeing others engaged in sex, swinging is not for her and therefore, not for you. 3) The lady must enjoy or at least not have any aversion to watching pornography. It might not be her favorite entertainment source, but she must at least enjoy watching it with you. Being surrounded by other couples having sex is like "pornography in the round" or 3D Porn, and if she doesn't like the stuff on screen, she'll really dislike it in real life. If she doesn't like pornography, swinging is not for her and therefore, not for you. I'm sure some folks in the lifestyle might disagree with some of my points, or wish to add to them, but I've distilled these three elements down from much investigation. It has revealed to me that my wife is not one of those wired for swinging (she is a "negative" on all three of the above), and I give a deep sigh, say, "Oh, well," and go on to enjoy my beautiful wife and the life we have together. Which is pretty good, compared with most people I know.
  7. Shelly: You've been right about much here but not that she knows about my past cheating. She knows nothing. Zip. Yes, I've been THAT careful. To be 100% accurate, it's not just "the hassle" of setting up secret trysts as Spoomonkey asserts - it's actually that I WANT to be exclusive to my wife, and seeing her finally beginning to open up into a person who can give more intimacy gives me hope that my needs can and will again be fulfilled by her. For the record, you're all entirely wrong in saying I ever denied my family one moment of the time they deserved, spending it with another woman. You have no clue, so don't even go there. I've doted on my family (wife and kids) more than anyone I know, even to the detriment of my own business through the years - taking days off for ballgames or dance recitals. Do I want to swing just so I can fuck other women? Absolutely not! I'd rather watch my wife enjoying the scene, whether it's merely observing others, or being gang-banged, and sit by the side without touching anyone else, than to indulge myself while she either does nothing or goes through the motinos just for me but doesn't like it. And that's ONLY if that is what SHE wants! I opened up the can of worms (and although the day wasn't well-chosen, it is irrelevant to the situation and of course, not malicious as someone suggested) in the belief that she MIGHT be one of those "quiet" women harboring secret desires, or maybe a latent curiousity in such thing. Since then, I've learned I was wrong. She isn't interested and swinging is off the table. I acknowledged it and accepted it and my original post was merely to discuss this turn of events with other men in the same boat. In all your vehement efforts to condemn me and throw rocks, only a few of you actually are hearing me.
  8. Fair enough question. I did not, as you proposed, cheat to fulfill anything but physical needs. I never became emotionally involved with anyone or had any 'relationship' with anyone else. Before I met my wife, I had an active and varied sex life. When we got together, things were pretty exciting and 'creative', but after the kids came, she cooled off and exhibited less and less interest in sex. She had switched into the "mommy mode", a non-sexual view of herself which is not uncommon in child-raising women. I tried to initiate sex, and tried to be sensitive to her needs (or lack thereof). I resorted to masturbation a lot, to blow off steam (and other stuff!). I suggested she go to the doctor for a hormone panel, which she did and everything was fine. I tried pleasuring her in more calm ways - massage, caressing, etc., to bring her libido up to speed. Not too often did it awaken her desires. I felt like I needed/wanted sex and she did not. But the urge was too strong to have truly fulfilling and frequent sex, and it was easy and discreet to find elsewhere. Once I'd "crossed the line", there was no going back and I actually let some of the pressure off of my wife (which she seemed to appreciate!) because I was getting sexual satisfaction elsewhere. I know it sounds like I rationalizing that my infidelity was to her benefit too, but I'm merely pointing out the way events unfolded. Up until fairly recently, her sex drive was in a sort of doldrums. Then, my advances seemed to be bearing more fruit...sort of timed with both our kids being able to drive themselves and us having actually privacy in the house. The sex seemed to be more frequent, but still rather traditional, or "vanilla" as some say. So I conjured up this idea in my mind to get us involved in swinging - soft at first, maybe merely dancing, flirting, possibly same-room-sex at the most. Adding some spice, some new experiences, some new, mutual adventures. At this point, I had sort of lost the need to "cheat" as I was getting sex once a week, or three times a month at least, from my wife. I decided she had somehow shed this cloak of disinterest and now I wanted to nourish this interest of hers. So after maybe almost a year of thinking about it, I "popped the question" to her about swinging....and you all know the rest. So there you have it - the sordid details....
  9. Interesting hypothesis, Dr. YourBitterPill, but inaccurate. I disagree with you completely. You could apply those same assumptions to any number of people and label them a "sociopath" too. The definition of a sociopath is "an agressively antisocial psychopath". I an not aggressive, nor am I antisocial by any means (I'm probably one of the most popular, witty, and outgoing people my friends and family know). And a "psychopath"? Even by your definitions that makes zero sense here. Sounded like a pretty impressive thesis though! I'm sure you had a lot of heads bobbing knowingly in agreement. Truth is, you do not know me and cannot know me based upon some posted statements here. And you do not know my wife. She's always felt extremely lucky to have such a warm, loving, considerate and compassionate husband. You all act as though she was unhappy! She wasn't. She loves me dearly and I her. And the fact I was unfaithful to her was unknown to her and remains so, so in her mind, it isn't even a factor. The only factor here is that she learned I have desires about which she previously didn't know and now does. We're dealing with it. We talk about it a lot. My choice to stop fooling around was my own. I wasn't "caught" or even suspected. I simply got to a point (maybe when the kids got old enough to where we are having more time together) where it didn't feel acceptable anymore in my mind and I wanted to try to devote more of that energy to her and our relationship. That was the impetus for suggesting swinging. The choice of the day was a total coincidence - we were alone without distractions, for once. But that was a bad choice in retrospect. I'm not saying I've made all good choices along the way. I'm not perfect like a lot of people. But I have been a good husband (yes, despite my extramarital activities!), never neglected her or my children, and a model family man. So I was - if nothing else - able to compartmentalize my home life with my outside life. And I'm not boasting about it or making it sound like I deserve a medal for the accomplishment. I'm just stating it, revealing it openly. But that point has been beaten to death here. The fact is, I've met several current swingers who previously cheated on their spouses, were either discovered or weren't, and found that the mutual and open sharing of swinging made that something that neither spouse wanted or needed to continue to do. One couple who live nearby - the ones who pointed this forum out to me and I'm in contact with regularly, both were cheating on one another, almost came to divorce over it, discovered swinging, and are in a wonderful marriage again. I envied them and was inspired by them. That is pretty much when I decided to bring it up to my wife. I've hidden only one thing from my wife all these years, and in hindsight, she never was the less for it. Now I choose a new path, and am labeled a "sociopath" by an armchair psychologist. You're all going to think what you wish, or what some compelling essay convinces you to believe, but again, you do not know me. I'd have to confidently state that I've been a much better husband and father than 90% of all the other husbands and fathers I've ever known. Sure, I've lived a complex life that included deception, but again, not once was my family neglected for it. They've always been Number One and always will be. More than I can say for a lot of people....
  10. Alura - no it has nothing to do with aging. You made the assumption I'm going after the "younger babes" but that is incorrect. I'm more interested in mature women and arranging a liaison with one is not difficult at all (I do not hang out in bars). That has nothing to do with it. Maybe I'm just 'done' with that scene. Also, it was said that me and all these other men come here to try to learn how to "coerce" our wives into swinging. C'mon! Every one of you guys whose idea it was originally had to present it to your wife, had to suggest it, if not "sell" her on the idea to get her to try it. Some wives liked it right off, others might've taken more time. The point is - you make it sound like any guy who wants to swing and comes up with the notion first is some inconsiderate ass who is only thikning about his own needs. Swinging is not a spontaneous and coinciding revalation to a couple! One or the other pulled the idea out of the air and brought it up. Is this "coercion"? I brought it up to my wife, just like so many of you did. I wanted her to explore the lifestyle, just like you wanted for your wives. I wanted to see herself expanding her sexual experiences and loving it - just like you want for your wives. I wanted her to enjoy, to grow, to participate in a rare slice of life few get to ever see. It wasn't about me - it was all about her, about US! But she had a highly negative reaction and I backed off, realizing it wasn't something she'd want to do. But we did discuss things I like and I opened up to her certain thoughts and ideas, and asked her what fantasies she might have, or things she would like to try in bed. It was a "getting to know you better" process after raising kids all our married life and realizing we'd fallen into a rut. And that is "coercion"? I think not! The idea to go to the CO resort was hers, after we'd talked about nudity and such. I was joking about the snow suit, but if she - like some other visitors at CO resorts (which are not just clothing optional - they are just as much nudity optional) want to join their spouse there but not disrobe, what's the harm? I have no intention in pushing her to strip. So I think a lot of you here got your backs up because I admitted to my infidelity past, and overlooked the whole reason for my original post - not to learn how to "trick" my wife into swinging but merely a discussion amongst husbands here who have realized it ain't gonna happen, and their thoughts about it. Sorry I was such a downer for the board. I think this is a great forum, with a lot of nice, insightful people, and a few who must comment on every single thing that's posted because they like to see their name up there and like the sound of their own voice. I've gotten my fill of input now, thank you. You can move on if you'd like.....
  11. I never said I was entitled to sexual variety - I just wished for it as much as most of you. But I've found my wife isn't like your wives. And telling me I'm bad because I cheated on her, gimme a break! I'm not saying it was ever a noble thing I was doing, or even right! But I did say I no longer wish to do so, and want to share every aspect of my sexual life with her, and have realized she isn't interested in going to those extremes. I guess that's a bit hard to comprehend when your wife says "yes" and all the rest of ours say "no". You truly do not understand until you walk in my shoes. Spoomonkey states that "because my marriage is not based upon trust and communication" (which isn't so, but I won't start that thread), we'll never be swingers! So, in other words, every couple who are completely open, trusting, communicate perfectly, etc., CAN swing? Absolute malarkey! I've done a lot of research into the subject - not just on this forum, but talking to "real live" swingers as well - particularly the distaff half - to fully understand the lifestyle, its pros and cons, its benefits and risks, and how it is managed from within and without. I feel I know an awful lot about it now (except how it actually feels)....and I've come up with a hypothesis: It's true, it's absolutely true: Men ARE from Mars and Women ARE from Venus. They are different - VERY different! In outlook, needs, perceptions, flexibility, etc. However, in my comprehensive research recently, I've discovered that SOME women are from Mars too - and those are the ones who are able to swing! They have more the male POV than the typical female one - more open to personal exposure, exhibitionism, mate-swapping, non-monogamous (non-romantic) sex, etc. All those obstacles to swinging that most wives exhibit. And THAT might be it in a nutshell. The typical woman won't and cannot swing - those who can are a rarity of the first order. My wife is typical Venusian, I believe... And for any of you listening, I love her, appreciate her for who she is, and have explored her limits and now know that this is a place we're not going. It took this session of "communicating" with her for me to know this - otherwise, like too many other husbands - that question would go unasked all our lives and I'd never know: "will she or won't she?"
  12. OK, Spoomonkey and other rock-throwers, I've got to stand up here and defend myself. I've never done anything "to" my wife all these years but be a wonderful, loving, supportive husband to her. She's never known one iota of my "other" activites and I've gone to great efforts to assure she never does or will. So I've never even hurt her - not until I opened up to her and divulged my interest in swinging, that is! Ahhhh, openness, honesty. "No good deed goes unpunished", as they say. You think me opening up and revealing that I was deceiving her all these years would be good for our relationship? What planet are YOU from, buddy? Even Ann Landers would have laughed her ass off at that suggestion! As for you righteous swingers out there so condemning "cheating' - yeah, it's easy to say for you, since your wife is one of those rare ones who will participate in the lifestyle and therefore, obviating the need to get that variety in your sexlife you so freely enjoy. And variety is a big part of the joy of swinging, whether you admit it or not. You're lucky, not necessarily good. I would guess that, if you took all the swinging couples out there and the wives suddenly reverted (or never were converted to swinging in the first place) to vanilla, at least half the men would end up getting their variety in extramarital activities. But you're safely in a place where you can deny that and lord your condemnation over us "cheaters".
  13. Great responses - thank you all, even those who bashed me for being a selfish pig, which I do not believe I am. First of all, Bill, your wife sounds even more conservative than mine! Mine at least enjoys having oral performed on her, will do oral on me but not let me cum in her mouth, and she does anal, and we enjoy toys...so I guess whenever you think you've got it "bad", someone has it worse! Sorry, buddy. Celtic - My Mrs. doesn't know anything about my "indiscretions" and I have no intentions of telling her! It would do nothing positive or productive. I am looking forward to going to the clothing optional resort with her later this year....even if she chooses to wear a parka, ski cap, galoshes and mittens in the Palm Springs sunshine! I'll just be happy that she's even there with me, indulging her "perverted" hubby in his silly sexual follies. Socolais, so, what you're saying is that you actually, successfully convinced your wife to swing in the space of one year? Please elaborate! What did you do or say, how did you do it, what were her reactions, and what was the process like? Your first experience? Vegas Lee - thanks, I know what you mean, but I'd have to edit out the parts about cheating on her for 28 years, as that won't go over well, even if I said I didn't want to do it anymore! I do tell her all the time how much I love her and am still turned on by her... Maria - Yes, I know and agree and I've been careful - she doesn't suspect anything and I've never chosen to visit another woman instead of being with her for any reason. I only plan meetings when she is busy or away somewhere. I've never neglected my family or put my secret playtime above time with them. I've been a terrific husband and father. Maybe we men are just able to compartmentalize these things more than women... Chicup - I do not feel I've been selfish - I truly want to share the joys of swinging with my wife! But if she would get no joy from it, and only go through the motions, I'd not enjoy it myself. It needs to be mutual! But yes, I definitely blindsided her with a concept I had been rolling around in my head for months. I felt like an idiot, thinking her reaction might be any different than it was! I was obviously obsessed with the idea and my mind crazed with the drug of pent-up lust! Running that day over in my mind now, it was totally out of my character and apparently, totally ignoring the likelihood of it blowing up in my face. But you know the old saying, "break an egg...make an omelet"? Well, after all was said and done, she is dressing a bit more feminine and being more creative in bed and open to trying new things...like the CO resort. So in the end, this might have been the breakthrough we needed to pull our sex life out of the doldrums. TNT - Agreed, I tried to do too much, too fast. Like I said above to Chicup, I wasn't thinking rationally at all. I only thought I was! And yes, you are correct, as much as I want to think otherwise, swinging is not for everyone! The fact I'm reading all these forums and looking at pictures and immersing myself in this world from the outside, it distorts reality and makes guy like me begin to believe that swinging is "normal", "common", and far more widespread than the vanilla world would imagine. Truth is, it is a fairly exclusive and specialized community, and like a new religion, cult, or political party, it's nearly impossible to bring someone into it from the outside and have them embrace it with open arms. You either have the predisposition for the lifestyle and its requirements (a lack of modesty bordering on exhibitionism, a desire or willingness to have multiple sex partners, and a highly flexible mindset regarding long-held social mores and moral standards) or you do not. GR8DAD2 - Ok, so you started out on the road to long-term swinging...I can imagine what a dream cum true it was - and then something happened. How could you not recall or be cognizant of something so objectionable in one encounter that it totally turned off your already swinging and open-minded wife? It had to be some pretty awful....and you never knew what it was? This needs a bit of explaining...
  14. OK, this is not as much for seeking advice (although I'm sure I'll get plenty!) as to commiserate with other husbands whose vanilla-minded wives simply will not even entertain the notion of swinging or anything beyond the realm of monogamous sex. I know very well that swinging must be totally mutual between both spouses for it to be a positive experience. My motivation here is to enhance our fairly decent sex life. We're 52 and 50, married almost 28 years, two kids, our own business, and a great relationship. She's rather conservative, very modest. I've always had a much greater sex drive than her and a need for more "out there" sex. I have indeed cheated on her our entire lives together, having many affairs, one-night stands, liaisons on business trips, even bisexual experiences. I've enjoyed it all, and have been immensely careful not to leave any clues or slip up, and she has no idea about my "other" life. I truly love my wife dearly. She is still very sensuous and attractive, and I've taught her a few new things over the years, like enjoying the use of toys, and how to squirt. Truth is, I do not have any guilt regarding my infidelity, but I'm tired of it. Too much effort and time wasted setting up secret rendezvous, etc. I want to experience the pleasures of non-monogamous sex WITH my lady by my side; I want to share it with her and not have to deceive her anymore. I pondered it for months, studied the lifestyle, did voluminous research on the topic. I finally dropped the bomb on her on (of all days, you idiot!) Mother's Day! She exploded. No, she imploded. Whatever, it was the most shocking, terrifying thing to ever happen to her in our relationship - she thought the dream was over. She was so scared, hurt, confused, repulsed. I finally had to backpedal and try to talk to her rationally and we went to marriage counseling only two days later (at MY behest, not hers!). I needed to be able to talk to her via the third party there. I needed to ease her pain. Anyway, things went well there, and we opened a new line of communication. She never suspected I was so...sexual..so kinky. This man she'd known almost all her life was different now in a way, and it still leaves her a bit muddled and confused. She tried to learn what the attraction is. She even looked online at various swinger's sites, the Freedom Acres site, etc. She wanted to know what her man was interested in doing. She couldn't agree with any of the positives all you folks were preaching. She did suggest she might go to a club just for me, to "get it out of my system" , but she'll sit in the bar and interact with no one...maybe go back to the car if it's too much. What fun. We've rarely watched porn; she has no interest in seeing other people having sex and it doesn't arouse her (so much for same-room sex). She doesn't have any fantasies about having sex with other people. She doesn't talk dirty and the word "fuck" is almost impossible to pry out of her mouth. We do have reservations at the Terra Cotta Inn in Palm Springs in early November. It's a clothing optional resort and I hope she'll become a bit more comfortable around naked people. She's agreed to go but made it clear she intends to remain clothed. I told her that's fine. I'll be naked. I appreciate her even going with me. Anyway, I wonder if there are other men on here with equally hopeless situations. I've all but resigned myself to the fact that I'll never get to indulge in that forbidden pleasure of outside sex WITH my wife there, enjoying it with me. It is deeply disappointing, and I like to believe that somehow, someday, she might come around on her own. But not too likely. Comments? How do you handle this? Do you keep pressing? Did you give up? Why exactly are you here reading the forum like me?
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