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Advice on swinging/threesomes/voyeurism?

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My Fiance and I have been together 4 years, we love each other very much and have great sex, its just that I have for many years now had the fantasy about having a threesome, FFM and MFM. My Fiance is bi-sexual, I am not. Neither of us have ever had a threesome or even done anything in front of other people.

 

I told her it is my fantasy to see her fuck another girl or even maybe more of a turn-on to watch her fuck another guy. I think I would just love to see how excited and turned on she could get from another new person fucking her. I don't care if I sleep with anybody else honestly, I would just want to fuck her while she was fucking the other person or even just watch and fuck her afterwards. I can't stop thinking about it, it turns me on and I have told her many times that this is a turn on for me.

 

She is very monogamous and thinks this kind of thing could "open up a can of worms" and cause problems. She also feels like even if I was there and into it that she wouldn't be able to get into fucking another guy, "it would feel like I was cheating on you" she says. She seems a little more open to the idea of a girl though, but still feels it could invite problems into our relationship if we did that. I am very much into voyeurism, but she has said she is not.

 

Not sure what I should do. I can't stop fantasizing about this though and I feel we, like every other couple out there, need to eventually do something to spice up our sex life. I feel it is natural and normal to get somewhat bored if you keep doing the same things all the time.

 

Any advice? Not really sure what to do about these urges...kinda hard to ignore.

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You can't and shouldn't pressure her. You've planted the seed. If she wants to do something with it, she will. She is right; it could open a can of worms. Some couples aren't and never will be ready to swing. What's clear is she isn't ready now.

 

Stop obsessing about the fantasy. This is something you should be doing together. Don't fantasize and then try to shoehorn her into doing it. It won't work.

 

There's plenty of other things you can do to spice up your sex life without involving other people. Be creative, imaginative, spontaneous, etc. There are literally millions of couples that never swing that do not have boring sex lives. You don't have to swing to not have a boring sex life.

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You can't and shouldn't pressure her. You've planted the seed. If she wants to do something with it, she will. She is right; it could open a can of worms. Some couples aren't and never will be ready to swing. What's clear is she isn't ready now.

 

Stop obsessing about the fantasy. This is something you should be doing together. Don't fantasize and then try to shoehorn her into doing it. It won't work.

 

There's plenty of other things you can do to spice up your sex life without involving other people. Be creative, imaginative, spontaneous, etc. There are literally millions of couples that never swing that do not have boring sex lives. You don't have to swing to not have a boring sex life.

 

Thanks for the good advice, like you say I have planted the seed and I do realize that. It may just take some time or it might never happen I guess. I really am trying to not pressure her. I don't even think I am ready yet either so that is fine.

 

I just feel that it is normal for both sexes to look at other people and occasionally, momentarily, fantasize about that person and wonder what it would be like....even if you are in a happy relationship. And I feel that because of that fact that most people wouldn't mind talking dirty about that, a little bit, in bed. You know just for fantasy talk...no real actions.

 

And again, just to make it clear, my fantasy is not about me doing things to other people...it is about watching her and seeing the enjoyment and excitement she might get out of the experience. I love watching her cum!

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I just feel that it is normal for both sexes to look at other people and occasionally, momentarily, fantasize about that person and wonder what it would be like....even if you are in a happy relationship. And I feel that because of that fact that most people wouldn't mind talking dirty about that, a little bit, in bed. You know just for fantasy talk...no real actions.

 

There are many non-swinging couples who do just that. The fantasy and reality of swinging are very different. The fantasy can be potent, intoxicating and really drive you wild. The reality can do the same, but it's very different too. My wife and I talked for months and months about swinging before we ever did anything, and it was months after that before I had the pleasure of watching her have sex with someone else. All that talking had zero clue about what it would really be like. It was great!, but very different than fantasy.

 

I too agree that it is normal for both sexes to look at other people. I despise this notion of "I married you I lost all interest in anyone else". I'm sorry, but you don't just shut down your sex drive unless your spouse is around. It's a natural, innate response. What you DO about it decides whether you're a despicable cretin or not :)

 

 

And again, just to make it clear, my fantasy is not about me doing things to other people...it is about watching her and seeing the enjoyment and excitement she might get out of the experience. I love watching her cum!

 

That's nice, and I do mean that, but keep in mind whether your fantasy is watching her with someone or you being with someone else, the effect is very much the same if she's not on board. There are quite a number of people who get very upset at the notion that their spouse wants them to have sex with someone else. It can be deeply disturbing.

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Agreed. I remember asking my wife years ago... "Do you ever look at other guys.. and just imagine the possibilities?" She says "Of course I do, and I hope you look at other women and do the same."

 

Swinging was still many years in our future, but we were subconsciously laying the groundwork.

 

Don't obsess over it. If and when she's ready to reopen the discussion, she'll let you know. Pushing it now will make her think it's more important to you than your current intimacy. Remember, you may have been thinking about this for a while, and she has not. Give her time.

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The biggest thing I took out of your post is "My Fiance" and while there are committed couples in the lifestyle...she may just not be emotionally ready.

 

I completely agree with Bbarnesworth and Dont.Stop.

 

Statements like "feel like it was cheating on you" and "open up a can of worms" are indicators that her comfort level isn't there but what I didn't hear you say is that she said "no" and that implies an openness to the idea. At this point, patience, patience and did I say patience?

 

Don't let the tree's keep you from seeing the forest.

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Awesome, this is why I keep coming back to this site, you guys have great advice to offer! I can tell you guys are coming from a place of experience and honesty in this and truly understand what is going on.

 

 

Dont.Stop, I understand what you are saying, about not pushing it and making sure she knows our intimacy and relationship is first and foremost. And like you say she hasn't had as much time to consider this, whereas I have been thinking about this idea since before I met her!

 

DigginIt, that is a great point, as you pointed out she never outright said "NO!" or "Hell No!", and because of that like you say I too believe that implies some openness to this idea in her mind. I understand I must be patient and she will need time to consider this on her own terms.

 

I was thinking about this yesterday. About 1 1/2 years ago, a few months after I told her about this fantasy, we were in Vegas for a wedding. We were at this club and I was out on the balcony smoking a cigar. This is when I saw that she was inside talking to this guy, who was with our group of friends, who later I learned she found to be "cute". She was talking, or in my opinion possibly flirting, with him for about 20 mins before I came inside and interrupted them.

After asking her about this weeks later she told me that it was flattering that he was interested in her but when she found out later that he was trying to fuck some other girl in our party, she realized it was nothing special and he just wanted to get laid by anyone. I paraphrase her words of course, but to me if you read between the lines it sounds like she WAS flirting and she knew he wanted to fuck her and she liked that. What do you all think about that incident?

 

 

bbarnsworth, as you say the fantasy is different from the reality and I can imagine that it is for sure!

 

So all that having been said, do you guys think it is okay to try to bring up just fantasy talk about a threesome in bed with her? Or should I leave that alone as well until she brings something up?

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After asking her about this weeks later she told me that it was flattering that he was interested in her but when she found out later that he was trying to fuck some other girl in our party, she realized it was nothing special and he just wanted to get laid by anyone. I paraphrase her words of course, but to me if you read between the lines it sounds like she WAS flirting and she knew he wanted to fuck her and she liked that. What do you all think about that incident?

 

 

 

Well yes it can be flattering for someone you deem attractive to be visibly interested in you married or not. But recognizing it and wanting it are two different things. I think some of us naturally lightly flirt with people whom are obviously interested in us. It can be a confidence booster. BUT it doesn't mean she wants to fuck them. I have also been flattered that someone else was interested in me that way and later not so flattered when it was obvious it probably had nothing to do with that I was attractive to them but moreso the fact that I had a pussy between my legs. Us women can be weird like that. Where men they are more apt to not care.

 

As far as using fantasy talk in bed. It could be a turn on for her but it could also be a turn off if you have been recently nudging the idea of swinging. She could view it as you further trying to convince her she'd like it. I might would just lay off it completely and see if she initiates dirty talk in that manner.

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It could be a turn on for her but it could also be a turn off if you have been recently nudging the idea of swinging. She could view it as you further trying to convince her she'd like it. I might would just lay off it completely and see if she initiates dirty talk in that manner.

 

Shrevecouple nailed my thoughts on the head.

 

Also, as a side note, my wife and I were at a conference in Chicago about 5 years ago and there was a guy there asking us about what we were doing, how we got involved, etc. He was a good looking guy and was very attentive to what my wife said. He hung on every word with genuine interest and there was nothing sexual about it.

 

Many times my wife and I have talked over the years and while we can hold conversations...it's not quite the same and that eagerness and interest can't be replicated. No matter how much genuine interest I give her...it's not the same and I think it has something similar in qualities with having sex with others.

 

I bring this up because it was a forerunner to us talking about the lifestyle. That conversation lead us to the conversation about missing those lustful feelings you get from being with someone new, and so on and so on. It's all sounding like you are on a path in the right direction. There is no "right" path so take it easy and enjoy the journey.

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DigginIt, yeah when you said "That conversation lead us to the conversation about missing those lustful feelings you get from being with someone new, and so on and so on." That is what I am taking about. I think that is a normal feeling everyone has even if they are not in the lifestyle...whether they admit it or not is another thing.

 

It is exciting because it is new and once you have been with someone for awhile, no matter how great your relationship and sex life is, I think it is natural for people to feel curious sometimes. Plus I personally have never stopped noticing other attractive women even though I love my Fiance very much!

 

Because of the fact that it is a normal feeling to have for both sexes, I feel that eventually my Fiance might become more and more interested in the idea. I think the feelings are there beneath the surface, just most people are afraid to explore those feelings with their partner. Most people are afraid to admit they have those thoughts to their partner, I'm guessing.

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Not all of us are wired that way. I honestly do not look at people and wonder what it would be like to have sex with them. I don't. I can see a man and recognize that I think he's attractive but my mind doesn't start imagining what he's like in bed or the sort. You can't assume that if you think in that manner that she does.

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Not all of us are wired that way. I honestly do not look at people and wonder what it would be like to have sex with them. I don't. I can see a man and recognize that I think he's attractive but my mind doesn't start imagining what he's like in bed or the sort. You can't assume that if you think in that manner that she does.

 

Okay, yes I see your point. I guess maybe it's more of a guy thing to check someone out and be a little curious. I just know my Fiance and my friends girlfriends do, on occasion, check out guys from time to time and whether or not they are thinking sexual thoughts or not I don't know, but they are appreciating someone else's good looks.

 

So your advice would be to "lay low" with the threesome talk with her and wait for her to bring it up at some point in the future maybe?

 

Shrevecouple what got you into swinging and how did that happen for you and your husband? Who was the one that brought it up and how did they bring it up?

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Once again I want to say thanks to everyone so far for all the great advice....I'm just trying to figure these feelings out!

 

So would you say that swinging is worth it? Is it a good thing in most cases if couples are ready for it, or is it something that is unrealistic and best kept as a fantasy because in reality it can't work most times and would lead to bad things?

 

How do you suppose a couple like us could tell if swinging would be a good thing to add to our relationship or not?

 

Is there anything you think we could do to "test the waters", to get a sense of how we would feel if we were to actually do it sometime?

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So would you say that swinging is worth it?

 

For us, absolutely. For you or anyone else...it's not a simple answer because swinging isn't for everyone.

 

Mrs. Diggs and I love each other very much. After 14 years together we still have a very romantic love and most importantly there is a lot of respect for each other. Almost everyday something happens where I tell my wife how much I appreciate the things she does, puts up with, etc. or she tells me how happy she is that I'm her husband. We work hard to never take each other for granted so when we first started talking about the lifestyle we spent a lot of time on "why" we would even consider having sex with others.

 

For me, as a guy where sex is really a physical thing. I believe women are beautiful and there is something fulfilling for me as a guy when I have sex with someone new that has nothing to do with love as much as with the appreciation of enjoying an experience with another. The different style of kiss, touch, taste, etc. is erotic and stirs sensations that just don't arise when having sex with my wife. It's not better, it's different. My wife and I share an intimacy that can not be replaced nor would I ever want it to be. We connect on so many levels beyond the physical.

 

For my wife, she enjoys the sex but for her it's more about the emotional foreplay that leads up to the sex. The sex is just the natural conclusion of an erotic evening. She loves the stimulation of someone new finding her sexually attractive and beautiful. She loves the feeling of being desired and the raw passion that arises from someone new. Those lustful feelings that have long faded (replaced by something deeper I'll add but faded none the less) in our relationship. What she often describes as the best part of an encounter...using her words is the "intensity" at which the other person has shown towards her. That "I'm so into you that I have to have you now" type of intensity. That is what she gets out of it and what she enjoys.

 

When we both leave a play date and we are headed home with that content smile and she says something silly like "We really have the best of both worlds" meaning a committed relationship and the raw passion of single sex...and she genuinely asks if I had a good time and what I liked best and what was my favorite part. We build new bonds through that shared experience and we laugh sometimes and we learn sometimes but ultimately, it was a shared experience no different than us going to a park together or going out on a nice date together. We did it together.

 

There are many people that get into the lifestyle for the wrong reasons or they can't handle the emotional turmoil it can create. Swinging takes two people who can compartmentalize sex. My wife amazes me that she can enjoy sex and simply walk away and say, "that was fun" like we went bowling. I think that is why we seem to be doing so well in the lifestyle but we have seen it take it's toll on others. We have seen maybe five splits between couples we have met over the past three years (almost three). So is it worth it...if you have the honesty, trust and respect in your relationship to say something even if you feel it may hurt their feelings(because that's the amount of honesty I think it takes)...it's worth it.

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That makes perfect sense what you are saying about why you have the excitement you both feel during these dates. I feel that my Fiance feels the same as your wife in that she likes to flirt, lightly, and likes the excitement and stimulation that comes from another mans focused attention on her. I think I need to embrace that more and let her do more of that without me interrupting like I have done in the past.

 

She has flat out told me before that she would fuck another girl, she jokes that once she got serious with me that is was sad that she wouldn't be able to eat another girl out again. I really think she meant it mostly as a joke, but there is a bit of seriousness in that statement also. She loves women, but she has explicitly said that she would never want me to fuck another girl....she would be too jealous. I am fine with that, I have always had a fantasy of watching 2 girls get it on in front of me. Maybe I need to start with the FFM thing and see how that goes...then later maybe MFM?

 

I keep telling her to think of some guy she knows that she finds attractive and pretend like it is him fucking her when I fuck her with her dildo, but she can never come up with a name! I love fucking her with her realistic looking dildo and imagining it being another guy fucking her! It is so hot! I love to watch her cum really hard on it!

 

So the last time we had sex I asked her to tell me about how her ex-boyfriend used to fuck her and how he made her cum...what position, what was he doing etc. She did tell me a little about that.

 

She really is open to a lot of things and I am just trying to figure out how to move on from where we are. What kind of things should we do? What should I say to her?

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Okay, yes I see your point. I guess maybe it's more of a guy thing to check someone out and be a little curious. I just know my Fiance and my friends girlfriends do, on occasion, check out guys from time to time and whether or not they are thinking sexual thoughts or not I don't know, but they are appreciating someone else's good looks.

 

So your advice would be to "lay low" with the threesome talk with her and wait for her to bring it up at some point in the future maybe?

 

Shrevecouple what got you into swinging and how did that happen for you and your husband? Who was the one that brought it up and how did they bring it up?

 

Laying low with that kind of talk would be my advice. If she has interest, she will think about it and probably bring it up. But you need to listen to her. She has told you that she does not desire for you to be with other women. But you are already thinking FFM then MFM. LOL The M part is the issue. In either of those scenarios there is contact between you and another woman. If you want to add some kink then my suggestion would be some type of voyeurism or maybe having sex with her in the same room as someone else having sex (which is something we like). It's like watching porn but live and in person. If she is interested in that then I would go with it but don't suggest anything that requires either of you touching someone else. Let her initiate that next step. But don't expect her to.

 

Funny you should ask me how and why we looked into swinging. We are very tame as far as swiniging goes. If you want to find out more about me I am participating in a Member Interview which you can find in the Forums.

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So would you say that swinging is worth it? Is it a good thing in most cases if couples are ready for it, or is it something that is unrealistic and best kept as a fantasy because in reality it can't work most times and would lead to bad things?

 

Diggin it is very right. It isn't a simple answer. Vegas Lee, a regular poster here, feels that less than 1% of the population can be successful swingers. I disagree with that number, but I do agree that most couples won't be able to wrap their heads around swinging, much less do some swinging. It's not for everybody.

 

There are certain predicates though that tend to be seen in successful swingers. One, there's absolute trust between the two, so much so that it's like a given, like air. You expect it's always there and you keep breathing it as if it's never going to end. It's a basic, rudimentary predicate. Part of that trust also dovetails into the next point; communication.

 

Both partners have to be non-judgmental with each other. They should both feel absolutely comfortable to talk about anything their mind thinks about. Not that you DO talk about everything your brain comes up with necessarily, but that you wouldn't feel uncomfortable talking about it. This is part and parcel of having very strong communication skills. Part of having strong communication skills is the ability to feel empowered in your openness with your spouse, that you're together as a team on things, and approach subjects together.

 

A new relationship, or a non-marital relationship, is often one that is likely not to do well in swinging. Also, if you were recently married, it's probably not a good idea either. It's kinda like being a kid; no need to rush to get to be an adult. When you're first married, you're still trying to figure out how to be you, as in both of you. That takes a bit of time. Most swing couples I see have been married for some years before they became involved in swinging.

 

Having an ability to think of life for yourselves, and not subject yourselves to the chains that society tries to put around everybody, is very important. Society has many unspoken rules. Sure, violating them can be dangerous depending on the context. But, the bigger point with respect to swinging is your ability to set aside society's rules and decide for yourself, on best knowledge, what is right and what is wrong, and what you want in your marriage.

 

Others can comment more. But, that gives you some idea.

 

Maybe I need to start with the FFM thing and see how that goes...then later maybe MFM?

 

Umm, wrong mental approach I think. If at some point down the road she wants to try, let her suggest what she'd like to do.

 

I keep telling her to think of some guy she knows that she finds attractive and pretend like it is him fucking her when I fuck her with her dildo, but she can never come up with a name!

 

How open is she with her fantasies? Some women, even the most honest and open people you'd ever meet, have a very hard time with their deepest fantasies. It also just might not BE a name, but a type.

 

She really is open to a lot of things and I am just trying to figure out how to move on from where we are. What kind of things should we do? What should I say to her?

 

I think you're looking for a way to talk her into it. You can't. The seed's planted. Don't try different ideas to see how they go. Just talk. Don't talk about it all the time, don't let yourself be obsessed about it. Just occasionally talk about it. Let her decide the pace. All you can do is open doors. Where you are is not where she is. You've got to walk with her, not ahead of her.

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I agree with you both about taking it slow and limiting how much I talk about this stuff, not allowing it to consume my thoughts but be more of an occasional subject of conversion between us. I understand I need to let her lead the way with any of this.

 

When I first met her she wasn't into watching porn that much, now she does enjoy watching some soft porn once in awhile.

 

shrevecouple - I like your idea of voyeurism, having sex in front of other people having sex but not touching. I could get into that for sure.

 

 

bbarnsworth - I understand I need to follow her lead and listen to her, the thing is that SHE has brought up the idea, from time to time, about the excitement of her being with another girl, stressing that she would not want me to do anything with the other girl if that happened though because she would feel too jealous. My response was that if that happened I would be fine with that because it would be a huge turn on just to watch, or at least just "play" with my Fiance.

 

Funny you say:

"How open is she with her fantasies? Some women, even the most honest and open people you'd ever meet, have a very hard time with their deepest fantasies. It also just might not BE a name, but a type."

 

She doesn't seem to like to tell me her deepest fantasies or to talk about them if she has them. She mentioned that when she was a teenager that she fantasized about 2 guys at the same time....that is what instigated the threesome talk a couple years ago. Now though she doesn't really tell me what she wants, what her fantasies are. Maybe she is just not creative like that, maybe she just doesn't think of that stuff? I don't know.

 

I have plenty of fantasies, I would assume most people do, I just don't know if she is afraid to tell me hers or if she is just doesn't really have any?

 

Two things I know for a fact about her... she had that fantasy when she was younger about 2 guys, and second that she loves women and is attracted to them and misses touching and having sex with a women. She is totally down with strip clubs and me buying her lap dances. I told her next time we go I will take her to a all nude place, she is into that idea.

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My wife has never really told me any fantasy she has ever really had. I mean prior to swinging. I can think about her with another guy having crazy sex and I get all excited and that is the way I believe most guys are. We visually see the fantasy taking place in our minds.

 

She has always said that the thoughts of kissing and dancing and grinding is the fantasy. She doesn't fantasize about the sexual "acts" themselves as much about everything leading up to those "acts." Often the fantasies have no name/face attached to them as much as just the thoughts get her mind racing.

 

Now that we are in the lifestyle her fantasies are more vivid but not by very much. But the things that have changes are substantial such as she was never into toys or porn before we got into the lifestyle but now enjoys them both. Could go on and on here but won't.

 

I'll end with this; if it's worth having, it's worth waiting for and you have bridged the conversation which is more than most men looking into this lifestyle. The lifestyle isn't going anywhere and you two have plenty of time. Remember the tortoise beat the hair by being persistent and not by being fast.

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"I'll end with this; if it's worth having, it's worth waiting for and you have bridged the conversation which is more than most men looking into this lifestyle. The lifestyle isn't going anywhere and you two have plenty of time. Remember the tortoise beat the hair by being persistent and not by being fast."

 

DigginIt - Good advice, I hear what you are saying. Guess that is the idea everybody is telling me, just be patient, the seed has been planted and take it slow.

 

We need to develop our trust more I think for this to occur anyways. I think I personally need to work on my feelings of jealousy before this happens. I am trying more and more lately to let her talk or even lightly flirt with other guys. I get a little jealous when that happens, but I try to remind myself that that is what would have to happen if we ever were to swing. It would be a natural part of it.

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