How do you feel about newbs who don't swap?

Just a thought that crossed my mind (boy for someone who has yet to even poke at the cherry I've got tons of questions) tonight. How do you feel about a newb couple, who won't swap? Not even soft swap. How would you feel, if you went to your favorite on-premise club, saw a couple obviously nervous, got to chatting, think the chemistry is there, but they tell you (before heading to the play area) that they're not willing to even soft swap. They'll do same room sex, and incidental contact won't (they think) freak them out, but that's as far as they'll go.

Would you still consider going to play with them? Or do you not consider this "playing" and decline?

Or, do you see the "deer in the headlights" looks, and stay clear of them, thus avoiding the situation entirely?

Mind you, in my hypothetical situation above, they're up-front with you, when the conversation starts heading towards "let's play." Just as obviously, if you're not into the "voyeur / exhibitionist" of same room sex, I'd presume you'd gracefully decline, telling them "that's not something we're into."

I'm asking, as (I hope) the Mrs and I will be that newb couple soon. Now, to be honest, I'm expecting little more than her and I will have a good time, maybe dance (although neither of us are dancers), have conversations with people at the club, maybe use the hot tub (outdoors, in Windsor, in February, with it expected to be below freezing...), but that's about it. But, I'd be curious to know how people who've "been there, done that, and more" feel about "nervous newbs."

Thanks,

Mr.

If they tell us ahead of time, no problem. It might even be fun.

If they tell us 3 hours into the party, annoying.

Well, first of all, I would say that we were that couple you described on our first few visits to the local on-premise club. It took a while to take it in, process it all and figure out if this was something that we wanted to pursue or not. The club will have all types of couples, each with different expectations, but overall, our experience has been if a couple finds you both attractive and fun to be with, sex may not be first on their agenda. Even experienced swingers enjoy meeting new couples and just having fun, and most are going to accept your newness and should be willing to go slowly and at your pace. Hey, we have all been there at some point...but we know some couples that jumped right in the first night out and full-swapped, and we also know some that have been in this for many years and will only soft swap. So you just have to take it slow, at the speed both of you (mostly your wife it sounds) are comfortable with and find that compatible couple help you along. Thinking about swinging and actually doing it are very different animals... Keep on reading from this board and communicate as much as possible with your wife for starters and if she is up for it, see if she would go to a club. Just be yourself and have fun with no expectations...

We eased into the actual swinging part after just having a curiosity of going to the a club environment and checking it out. I would also recommend meeting another couple for dinner, they should be willing to guide you both along with answers to questions you may have and sharing experiences. You will learn a lot more in a few hours face to face talking with them.

What has solidified my wife's views and acceptance of the lifestyle was meeting and talking with other couples like us that were already experienced swingers. Even though I have the best relationship a man could have with his wife, there are some things that she has to see and hear for herself for her own confirmation. Your wife may have in interest in bi-play, plus there's the jealousy factors that may be an issue, so make sure you both understand what swinging is all about. It is quite simple really, just to have fun, but it takes the right combination of having a healthy relationship, lots of trust in each other and a good set of rules you both will adhere to going in.

I really wouldn't worry too much about being new with another couple, just be upfront with them, so they know what to expect from you, and visa versa.

Hope that helps...

Warrencpl,

There are people that attend clubs every weekend, and never touch another person, and yet have great sex.. for them the aspect of BEING there is a turn on.. Being Watched while they do whatever they are doing is enough of a thrill..

Try not to over think all of this,. find what you are comfortable with as a COUPLE.. and be up front and honest with anyone you communicate with about your wishes/wants.. and go from there.

There are plenty of people that will consider what you looking for.

As for the newbies, with the deer in the headlights .. it happens.. depends on the case in question.. If they are too nervous, you back everything down and go at thier pace. If theyre in a club, Be warm, Be Welcoming and see how things go.. Some will run screaming.. others will chatter for hours.. Others will jump in with both feet first....depends on too many factors to know which one is which.. but its sure fun to investigate a little and find out..

WarrenCouple,

It's great that you are asking questions and starting to consider what may/may not make you comfortable as you think about visiting a club and possibly playing. Be completely honest with people and let them know you are nervous and that with the right couple you are thinking you'd like to try some same room sex to start.

If it was me, first of all, I'd be flattered that you felt comfortable enough with my hubby and I to consider having your first experience (even if there was no swapping) with us. And second, most swingers LOVE having sex with their spouses, so this is not an issue at all. I may have sex with other people, but I still have the best sex with my #1!!

One thing you might also consider...and how our first few club visits went...we did socialize and met some great people. And with only a few exceptions, the only people we ever played with at the club was each other. Not that was what we were hoping for, it just worked out that way.

If you are afraid of feeling like you are leading someone on, do be upfront about your limits/boundaries. Most people at a club/party are there for the social interaction as well as the potential to find other playmates.

But, if the mood strikes you...there are usually no rules that say you can't just take your wife up to the group play area, find a spot, and enjoy each other where you can watch others and be watched.

Do whatever works for you as a couple and have fun!

My wife and I had a similar experience recently. We met a couple who "talked a big game". We both got really excited. It went well, some soft swapping. One night the other man came over alone and we had a three way. Went fine. Next time all four of us got together he found his wife and I making out by ourselves and freaked out! Uncomfortable to say the least.

My wife and I are still very interested in this lifestyle, yet we don't have the "balls" to go to a club yet. Advice???

Chicup said:

If they tell us a head of time, no problem. It might even be fun.

 

If they tell us 3 hours into the party, annoying.

Sums it up in a nutshell for us!

We don't mind lending an ear, and talking about the subject of swinging to anyone seriously interested. We have learned enough ourselves this far, to appreciate new peoples feelings. It does happen sometimes with people we meet in our pursuit of potential playmates. And there is a time and place for that.

You say this is in a club setting right ? Because it makes a difference.

If we venture to a club now days, we have full intentions of seeking sexual compatible people when we make it to the club. We do like socializing, but we came to play also. We are usually pretty revved up you might say, after talking between ourselves prior to getting there. We may even have intentions of meeting someone in particular by this time. Then again we may be hoping for just a plain sexual connection with anyone.

Playing with each other is fun. But, we are hoping to extend ourselves. It depends on the circumstances whether we would join a couple for same room same partner sex. We have talked the night away before and done nothing.... It happens.

The thing is, this is one reason we go with a suite when we go out. If its just sex between ourselves because for what ever reasons we find playing with others isn't going to happen, we would be far more comfortable back at our hotel in a hot tub together.

We do ask for company

Mr. Warren,

On our first visit to a swinger's club, we had no friggin idea what we were walking into. Honestly, I have not read any of the responses that you have received so far. But we had a great time, with each other, all of our fears were groundless. Yes, we did a full swap that night, didn't plan on it, my wife had fears, but I had no expectations. It was a great weekend. Go into the club with no expectations or fears, because there is no need to have them, no means no in a well run club. Just enjoy the sexy environment!

You mentioned on-premises clubs. We found for us anyway that an off-premises club was a good intro. Everyone was there to meet and find folks to play with but there was no pressure to have sex at the club. Easy to extricate yourself, if you aren't ready to play. And you talk about expectations before heading to the hotel if you do meet someone.

Good luck and both of you enjoy yourselves.

We did full swap the first time, but being fairly new ourselves, we certainly understand that some newbies would just want to have a same-room, own-spouse experience to get their feet wet. Like others have stated, we'd prefer knowing early on that this was the preference. Just as always, it comes down to communication and common courtesy. If a couple were to wait a couple of hours into our relatively rare evening out to let us know about this particular "limitation," we probably wouldn't be very happy with them. We're probably there with hopes of finding playmates, and while we're certainly willing to plant the seeds for future encounters, we'd prefer to know their intentions up front.

I'd recommend off-premise as well, but the best off-premise one I know is in Burlington Ont, which is a long way from where you are.

Off-premise is nice because you can avoid making an impetuous decision that you wouldn't have made if you had to leave the place and go somewhere else. It might occasionally kill the mood, but on the other hand, you're less likely to end up doing something (or someone) just because you're there. Yes let people know upfront, but that shouldn't be a problem. Lots of people go to off-premise places not to hook up, but to dance dirty and socialize, and in our experience when you meet someone new there anyway, practically the first thing they say is "How long have you been in the lifestyle?" and then you can just take it from there.

On the "doing something just because we're there," the wife is still some jumpy about this. I doubt she'd let us do anything she / we aren't comfortable with. We had another heart-to-heart last night, in part because, well, my imagination was running ahead of the script, and trying to guess the ending.

Her biggest concern was disappointing, and hurting me. As I told her, while likely if she were to decide (hopefully after we go at least once) that this isn't for us, yes, I'd be disappointed, but not hurt. We're in this together, one way or the other.

I think I might suggest we go to one of the local off-premise tonight, just for the heck of it.

Re: How do you feel about newbs who don't swap? I took the title of this thread and put it here and thought, "What about all the people that have been going to a club for years and don't swap?"

It's just not "newbs" that don't swap it's a lot of couples.

I think the underlying question is define swap? If you are talking full swap then I can see where it would be intimidating for a new couple. Although I have been in the lifestyle longer than Ms. Nudist, we haven't gone as far as full swap. We both have previous marriage issues with that. Now we both love soft swap and that is where we are comfortable. I can see that being a good place to start.

And remember we were all newbs at one time.

While we really aren't into the same room, no-swap, sex thing (unless you are a really hot couple ), we would politely decline. Keep in mind that very few folks go to the club and swap on the first visit. So, what you want to do is not unusual at all, and as long as you are up front about your limits, I can't imagine anyone being offended.

So, if we met someone at the club and seemed to hit it off, but they don't swap. We would probably be disappointed, but it wouldn't stop us from getting to know them and hanging out with them. Most swingers would probably be the same because we all know that a newbie today, even one with lots of limits, may turn out to be an enthusiastic playmate tomorrow.

I don't know if you can call us newbs, because we haven't done any kind of swap. But this is also what we are thinking about doing. We like the idea of having sex with eachother around other people having sex. But we are not sure about having sex with others.

Do people at clubs frown at this activity?

We just recently went to an on site club for the first time ever, and it was our first experience other than going to a nude beach together. The first night was singles and couples. There were a lot of single men there, but for the most part people were very polite. The second night was couples only and had a more relaxed erotic vibe.

We chose on both nights to only play with each other, as this whole adventure is totally new to us.

Here is a very long but detailed account of our first night in the club. Maybe this will help some of you who are like us . . .

We had fantasized about possible different scenarios happening, but in the end we agreed to go to the club with no expectations and some definite boundaries and a safe word. We agreed we would definitely go into to back area where street clothes are not allowed and have sex with each other. We also agreed that me playing with other girl would be acceptable if that were to happen. Anything else needed to be discussed.

The first night was couples, single males and single females. As you can imagine there were more single males than females there. We started out in the bar area, and had a couple of drinks. I know Rabbit was a little concerned about the fact I downed two vodka and tonics in record time. We had dinner and although we were both nervous, I did enjoy erotic flirting with Rabbit in the bar, letting him slide his hand up my fishnet clad legs and touch my pussy. I wore a push up black lace babydoll underneath my top and slit skirt and it wasn't long before the top was off and my legs were up in his lap with the skirt parted. We both looked really sexy, but any kind of dress is allowed in the bar area, from street clothes to lingerie to towels. It was however a bad euro bar kind of vibe in there.

We talked with another couple who come to the club often but don't really do anything other than dress seductively and go to the back where the girl sits on other men's laps. I don't even think they had sex together while we were there. I found out from her that one of the single men was trying to catch my eye at the bar, which I didn't even notice because I was too busy eye-fucking Rabbit at the time. He asked her why we were there. She told him we were there to play with each other and that was it as far as she knew.

We mustered up our courage and went to the back where we undressed in a unisex locker room and were given towels. This night was weird and really quite creepy due to the fact that the single men were everywhere and will come up really close to couples and masturbate. When asked to move on they were very polite however. I was very surprised that I did not find it erotic to watch them masturbate, because I love seeing that in videos or watching Rabbit.

If you are looking for a gang bang type situation, an extra man, or like to watch your female partner with another man, this is the night to go, but we were not into that sort of thing. At one point we thought there was a gang bang going on in one of the rooms and I told Rabbit to go look if he liked while I stayed with the couple I mentioned earlier and chatted. As soon as he left, there were men approaching me, so be prepared for that. People there do seem to respect the word "No" however.

There were private rooms with locks on the doors, an "orgy room," a couple or bars, and a hot tub and swimming pool room with beds and lounges surrounding it.

We ended up playing in the hot tub and pool where people watched us and fucking in the "Orgy room" a couple of times with other couples next to us having sex. We watched other couple having sex as well from the hallway. At one point we had an audience while Rabbit was fucking me from behind in the orgy room. We did think there was some isolated swapping going on in the orgy room but not really a full blown orgy.

There was one woman who was doing dances most of the night on the table in the back bar while some men masturbated.

A couple of things we learned:

Communicate the entire time. This we agreed to do before we got there.

The private rooms are a good place to go if you need to talk alone, but be sure and lock the door. Although there is a rule that no one is to enter the private rooms if the door is closed, this is not always followed. We were in there having a "state of the union" meeting and someone just opened the door and asked if we wanted company.

Don't make eye contact if you don't want to be approached on this night.

Be prepared for great sex after you leave the club! Even though we had had sex a couple of times that day, and several times at the club, we couldn't get enough of each other. Still can't in fact!

The next night we went was a couples only night and had a completely different, comfortable, more erotic vibe.

I don't know if you can call us newbs, because we haven't done any kind of swap.

I think, kinda by definition, that makes you a newbie.

You have to take the good with the bad, a lot of times when you go to one of the websites you have people that say lets meet, but never do. Also you have that single guy that will show and say his better half is sick or couldn't make it (that's always a good one). But with newbs some people don't know what swinging is and they chicken out or one is into it and the other isn't .

I think, kinda by definition, that makes you a newbie.

I am not trying to start shit with you... but that is a fairly ignorant assessment of their experience. The lifestyle is for all kinds of people... even those who chose to never even get naked in front of others but like to watch. Those would be referred to as Voyeurs... and they are welcome in the lifestyle.

The lifestyle isn't about swapping... and I think that anyone who thinks that this is the primary point of the lifestyle doesn't really have a lifestyle attitude... The lifestyle community is for people with all kinds of fetishes and swapping is a limited set of fetishes. For example, alot of BDSM lifestylers don't even have sex. They masterbate. It's all about foreplay for them.

Ultimately, the lifestyle is about meeting like minded individuals/couples... everyone is not into the same thing and that is the beauty of the lifestyle... diversity.

I am not trying to start shit with you... but that is a fairly ignorant assessment of their experience. The lifestyle is for all kinds of people... even those who chose to never even get naked in front of others but like to watch. Those would be referred to as Voyeurs... and they are welcome in the lifestyle.

 

The lifestyle isn't about swapping... and I think that anyone who thinks that this is the primary point of the lifestyle doesn't really have a lifestyle attitude... The lifestyle community is for people with all kinds of fetishes and swapping is a limited set of fetishes. For example, alot of BDSM lifestylers don't even have sex. They masterbate. It's all about foreplay for them.

 

Ultimately, the lifestyle is about meeting like minded individuals/couples... everyone is not into the same thing and that is the beauty of the lifestyle... diversity.

Feel free to start shit with me.

The lifestyle isn't about swapping?

Ummm no, it is. Swinging isn't every fetish out there rolled into one. Swinging is swapping partners, I'll even say 3somes count in there too (and thats a subject for debate), but thats about it.

I don't care how many times you watch someone have sex, if you don't exchange partners at some point, you are not a swinger.

To use a more clear analogy, lets take football. I don't care how many games you watch, how well you know the stats, how much you enjoy talking football with the players, until you played your first NFL game, you would be a rookie.

I sometimes feel like being a 'swinger' is somehow a cool club everyone wants to say they are in. I have no idea why this is, but thats the impression I get. Saying a non-swapper isn't a swinger, isn't a negative judgment, they can do whatever their kink is and enjoy it, but they just aren't swingers, any more than I am a BSDMer, or HotWifer, or cuckhold.

Interesting turn of events, made me think "what is the true definition?" I thought the same that it was the married couples swapping sexual partners and nothing more.

From the Yahoo dictionary:

swing·er (swngr) KEY

NOUN:

One that swings: a good swinger of baseball bats.

Slang

A person who actively seeks excitement and moves with the latest trends.

A person who engages freely in promiscuous sex.

A member of a couple, especially a married couple, who exchanges sexual partners.

I think that the swinging lifestyle is open or is willing to accept other sexual behaviors (fetishes, BDSM, etc) but I would agree that the definition of a "swinger" is a married couple who has SEX with other couples and like Chicup said maybe the addition of single males or females. Anything else is just that....something else. To me just watching people have sex doesn't make you a swinger. Not that there is anything wrong with watching. For us watching each other is fine, just watching others...is ok, but I would rather sit at home and watch porn if all I could do is watch....

The lifestyle like I said is very accepting to watching, soft swap, full, etc.

Do what you feel is right for you your the one that needs to be comfortable in what your doing.

That's just my opinion.

A swinger can be an exhibitionist, but an exhibitionist is not a swinger.

Trying to include any kink where there is someone else involved a swinger just silly. The term becomes meaningless.

You also can't even come close to equating being willing to share the one you love with someone else physically in the most intimate of acts with exhibitionism and voyeurism.

My wife and I really enjoy going to nude beaches, we both have an exhibitionist streak, but this is completely different from our swinging side. Our first time at a nude beach Mrs. Chicup, a swinger, was very uncomfortable even going topless.

I also think most people have a bit of a voyeur streak in them, if they didn't porn wouldn't exist like it does. So if you go to live sex shows does that make you a swinger? If you watch people in a club are you a swinger? Hell no.

Likewise if you only swing in private separate rooms with no desire for exhibitionism or voyeurism are you not a swinger? Of course not.

Trying to include anything that doesn't involve swapping physically under the definition is trying for some sort of inclusiveness which just really does not exist at all.

Swinger 1: "My wife just likes to flash her breasts at truckers, it's a real turn on."

Swinger 2: "My wife just had sex with two of my friends while their wives did me."

Swinger 1: "Wow, we are like living the same lifestyle!"

Ummm no, just no.

Newbies to the swinging scene who are not yet swapping is not uncommon, however we would not be interested in heading off to a play room with them because we are a full swap couple. I can understand a couple's interest in starting out in a swinger environment and not swapping, but if it is their intent to never engage in sex with others, they aren't swingers by my definition.

I have no issues with couples who don't swing being in the presence of those who do. I think it is best to let swingers know early on when meeting that you don't swing. I would appreciate that information upfront so that I don't start getting hopeful about engaging in play with a couple only to find out they don't play.

I am not trying to start shit with you... but that is a fairly ignorant assessment of their experience. The lifestyle is for all kinds of people... even those who chose to never even get naked in front of others but like to watch. Those would be referred to as Voyeurs... and they are welcome in the lifestyle.

 

The lifestyle isn't about swapping... and I think that anyone who thinks that this is the primary point of the lifestyle doesn't really have a lifestyle attitude... The lifestyle community is for people with all kinds of fetishes and swapping is a limited set of fetishes. For example, alot of BDSM lifestylers don't even have sex. They masterbate. It's all about foreplay for them.

 

Ultimately, the lifestyle is about meeting like minded individuals/couples... everyone is not into the same thing and that is the beauty of the lifestyle... diversity.

While I will admit that a lot of voyeurs we see at the clubs would like to agree with you, they are not swingers. Frankly, I wish they had their own club, but then again, I can see how a club full of voyeurs would be kind of boring. So since a voyeur club would be a non-starter, they come to the swingers clubs. Lucky for them, some exhibitionists (not considered swingers either, unless they also swap partners) come to the clubs and are willing to let the voyeurs watch.

Swinging is people participating in recreational sex with partners other than their spouse or SO. Anything else is just that, something else, not swinging.

 

I have this image of a bunch of nervous looking fully clothed couples standing around all night waiting for someone to do something.

Well... I guess maybe my mindset about the whole thing is that the lifestyle is an inclusive description and not exclusive. My initial post (not the wikipedia one) was about the lifestyle in general... and I don't know how the club is where you are... but our club is a lifestyle club.

Carolina Friends is a private Lifestyle social club for open-minded couples and select singles.

I think that the lifestyle isn't about swapping for everyone. I think it's about a community of open-minded people who enjoy all kinds of adult oriented activities that aren't exclusively swapping.

My wife and I are a full swap couple... but that isn't even close to our primary motivation to be involved in the lifestyle. We want to make friends that we can relate to on alot of different levels... not just whether we can fuck them.

I think that people who just want to fuck and are not interested in becoming friends (foremost) are just purely sluts or sex addicts. We have met alot of couples like that and 8 times out of 10 one of them is unhappy with their relationship and they are not really enjoying it together as a couple... they are just two people who are together when they are fucking other people. I won't speak to their motivations because I can't relate to that.

My view of the whole thing is that relationships (your own and with friends) are the most exciting thing about the lifestyle and not just fucking. Anything other than that is a slippery slope and doesn't speak well for the participants.

EDIT: I forgot why I quoted you... You laugh at that... but I have been to quite a few "swinger" events where this is exactly what occurred.

2plus2fun said:

Well... I guess maybe my mindset about the whole thing is that the lifestyle is an inclusive description and not exclusive. My initial post  was about the lifestyle in general... and I don't know how the club is where you are... but our club is a lifestyle club.

Personally I think voyeurs are only allowed in because they are cash, they really are not needed even for exhibitionist no swap couples because of group rooms and the like. One of our more frustrating nights was with a voyeur couple (who of course don't have an armband on saying 'don't waste your time') and they most definitely were NOT swingers. They, especially he, was there to watch swingers, personally I found it odd and creepy.

Quote

I think that the lifestyle isn't about swapping for everyone. I think it's about a community of open-minded people who enjoy all kinds of adult oriented activities that aren't exclusively swapping.

I really don't have a problem with this, (well except for creepy time wasting voyeurs), but that doesn't change that when it comes to swinging, they are newbies, or not even that. They are into something completely different. So they might be great people to hang out with, but I won't ever call them swingers. I just don't see the need to include them under the umbrella.

Quote

My wife and I are a full swap couple... but that isn't even close to our primary motivation to be involved in the lifestyle. We want to make friends that we can relate to on a lot of different levels... not just whether we can fuck them.

We are the same way too, and of course we know the frustration with that, as so many don't feel this way.

Quote

I think that people who just want to fuck and are not interested in becoming friends (foremost) are just purely sluts or sex addicts. We have met a lot of couples like that and 8 times out of 10 one of them is unhappy with their relationship and they are not really enjoying it together as a couple... they are just two people who are together when they are fucking other people. I won't speak to their motivations because I can't relate to that.

Honestly I'm not sure, maybe because you never get to know them well enough to know what their relationship is like.

Quote

My view of the whole thing is that relationships (your own and with friends) are the most exciting thing about the lifestyle and not just fucking. Anything other than that is a slippery slope and doesn't speak well for the participants.

I agree with you, but this is another topic really from what started this.

We have been actually toying with idea of a "Monogamous House Party"

Mrs. Texasfun and I are full swap, but we enjoy playing with all hotties who love to get naked. We know lots of new couples who are a little afraid to jump head first into sexual situations and clubs can be intimidating.

So we thought what about throwing parties where everyone had a great time, got naked, and had sex but without the pressure of swapping. In a poll we posted we had an overwhelming positive response from newbies and veterans.

Texasfuncouple said:

We have been actually toying with idea of a "Monogamous House Party"

Dang, I almost wish me and the Mrs lived in Texas, to go to one of these parties!

Tomorrow, we try going to a club, yet again. Meet & Greet, on-premise club, non-members don't get access to the play areas, so should be (some) lower pressure to "put out." Mrs actually called to confirm we were on the guest list, get a couple questions answered (non-drinkers, should we bring our own soda?), and felt the woman who answered the phone and questions "sounded nice." Further updates (maybe a sort of review in the club review section) as warranted.

I would chat with people who are newbs, and even approach them to play (assuming I am attracted to them), but if they said they didn't swap (and werent even willing to try it yet), I would politely move on to other couples. I go to on premise events to play. I'm happy to chat, and answer questions even, but I also don't want to spend the whole night with people that I won't get any action out of.

All that said, I'm happy to chat for a bit with pretty much anyone.

warrencouple said:

Tomorrow, we try going to a club, yet again. Meet & Greet, on-premise club, non-members don't get access to the play areas, so should be (some) lower pressure to "put out."

Meet & Greet..on premise...with play areas...I wish we had Meet & Greets like that around here!! You have to go to a full blown social for something like that around here.

Anyway, you have nothing to fear, you and your wife will not get attacked by horny sex maniacs or pressured into anything. 98% of us are just regular nice folks that like to meet others who share this common interest. You two will be just fine, just get out there and talk to people (network is what I call it), and have no expectations to play.

Best of luck to you both

No problem here, we would still have a good time.

N8ture Girl said:

Anyway, you have nothing to fear, you and your wife will not get attacked by horny sex maniacs or pressured into anything. 98% of us are just regular nice folks that like to meet others who share this common interest. You two will be just fine, just get out there and talk to people (network is what I call it), and have no expectations to play.

As I texted the wife today on lunch about tonight (she went out with one of her friends from work, I was feeling somewhat non-social, and went later anyways).

As long as we're together, we'll be OK. Having fun is a bonus. Meeting people we like would be another bonus.

Ought to be interesting, and we'll put up a review at some point...

2plus2fun said:

I think that people who just want to fuck and are not interested in becoming friends (foremost) are just purely sluts or sex addicts.

What, exactly, is wrong with just being in it for the sex?

I personally, am in it for the sex, as are the majority of the fellow swingers I hang out with, spend most of my time with. If I happen to become friends with some of the people I play with, great, but if not, I don't really care. I go out to parties and clubs for sex. I like socializing and generally do so for the first few hours, but my ultimate goal is to find folks to fuck, whether I ever see them again or not. Heck, I consider myself a slut and am proud of it.

This is why I tend to see the "lifestyle" as different than "swinging". Swinging is swapping, having sex with others, etc. Lifestyle is the parties, socializing, soft swappers (they can kind of fit in both if you want), exhibitionists, etc.

What, exactly, is wrong with just being in it for the sex?

As a single female... nothing...

Why do you qualify it with "as a single female"? Is it somehow ok for a single female but not for a couple?

If you are not interested in playing AT ALL with another couple then say this as early in the conversation as possible (you are just there to watch/ be watched). In that case, most likely it won't ever be an issue of inviting/ being invited to "go play", but rather when you get ready to go play together, just go to the play room and do so. That's all you are there for. At that point it doesn't matter who else is in there.

Our first many visits to a swing club that is exactly how it went. Occasionally we talked to other people and if they asked us about what we were into, etc, we just let them know that we were new and not ready for anything yet. Of course, our very first visit I dragged pet upstairs to the play areas and sat him down and gave him a BJ in one of the group rooms. It's a rare night that we go to our favorite on-premise club and don't end up at least playing with each other. We don't wait for others, we just go when we feel like it. Usually an hour or so into the night we need a break from the music anyway and will wonder up to see what might be going on. Sometimes we end up playing on that first trip to the playroom, other times it might be later, just depends on our mood.

Yeah, it would have been nice last night if the Mrs and I had been able to get into the play area (M&G guests not allowed in), I think we might have stayed longer, too...

Yes, we made it to the club, and actually went in the door:

Survived our first club visit

It's their prerogative. A swingers club (no matter how attractive the participants, sadly) isn't a "You Must Fuck Someone Else NOWWWW" club, and everyone has the right to move along at their own pace. And, believe me, I've been burnt by shadowing the wrong people more than once. Likewise, a patron's insistence on swapping partners with me and my (at the time) FWB was what broke up our relationship. I told her that she wouldn't be pressured or forced into doing anything that she didn't want to do, then she spent the next four hours of her time in the club being stalked by men and fondled by women. Too bad for them, as she was/is "strictly dickly" (and the more, the merrier at that). She was OK with the men, but one especially determined and crass woman was enough to turn her off of the lifestyle (as she's rejected the idea of clubs or private parties) permanently.

If you push too hard, you'll become one of those "obnoxious jerks". It's always best to flirt a little, let them know that you and your partner are interested in a more "intimate" meeting, then let them decide for themselves.

Complaining about the fact that your "targets" for the evening aren't willing to complete the deal is a recipe for failure.

2plus2fun said:

I am not trying to start shit with you... but that is a fairly ignorant assessment of their experience. The lifestyle is for all kinds of people... even those who chose to never even get naked in front of others but like to watch. Those would be referred to as Voyeurs... and they are welcome in the lifestyle.

Maybe in some places, but not generally accepted...

2plus2fun said:

The lifestyle isn't about swapping...

Yes it is. Period.

2plus2fun said:

and I think that anyone who thinks that this is the primary point of the lifestyle doesn't really have a lifestyle attitude... The lifestyle community is for people with all kinds of fetishes and swapping is a limited set of fetishes. For example, a lot of BDSM lifestylers don't even have sex. They masturbate. It's all about foreplay for them.

Ok I'll just say... WTF???

2plus2fun said:

Ultimately, the lifestyle is about meeting like minded individuals/couples... everyone is not into the same thing and that is the beauty of the lifestyle... diversity.

Swinging is about swapping. If you don't swap at all, you aren't a swinger. That's what the word means, for crying out loud. Think of it this way - you can dress, talk, and behave like a German - that doesn't make you a German. By the same token, you can go to a club, dance, dress in clubwear, flirt, maybe even flash a bit of titty - but that doesn't make you a swinger.

well... I think that we can respectfully agree to disagree because we share a much different view of the lifestyle than you do obviously...

Yes, swinging is about swapping - that's the whole idea. That's what the term 'swinger' means. By definition, voyeurs, exhibitionists, and even those in the BDSM lifestyle are not swingers. Now, some of those people might also swing, but just being into watching others have sex doesn't make you a swinger.

I meant what I said earlier as well - you can go to a club, dance, dress in clubwear, flirt, maybe even flash a bit of titty - but that doesn't make you a swinger. At best it makes you a wannabe, and at worst it makes you nothing but a tease.

Yes, everyone moves at their own pace - especially when they take their first steps into the lifestyle. But the whole reason for entering into the lifestyle in the first place is to either invite someone else into your bed, or be invited into someone else's bed. If you aren't interested in doing either of those things, you're not a swinger. There are a lot of people who fall into this category. You can call them voyeurs, exhibitionists, wannabes, hangers-on, followers, teasers, or whatever you like - the point is they like to hang out with swingers, love the sexy atmosphere, enjoy the sexy banter, and might even enjoy the nudity. They're not interested in swapping, however, and by virtue of that fact, by definition, they're not swingers.

The OP of this thread is not in this category, in my opinion. They're interested in swapping - they're just moving at a very slow pace. That's fine. It's their lives, after all. (Remember, this is just my opinion.) To me, they're potential swingers. They've taken the first tentative steps, are discussing things, and deciding where to go from here. More power to them, and I wish them the best - no matter what they decide.

I'm very passionate about the lifestyle (hence my incredulity in my previous post.)

I've managed to avoid this thread for a while, but I guess I'll chime in with my $0.02 on this topic. We've been very frustrated with new couples who don't seem to know what they want. We are now at the point where we mention in our online profiles that we prefer couples with at least some lifestyle experience. We are also clear that we are a FULL SWAP couple, in upper-case and bold. We don't like it when a couple talks the talk, then avoids any potential play situation. In other words, we don't like to be misled. Better to be up front about your limits. If you're not sure what they are, say so! If there is no touching/swapping at all, it's voyeurism, not swinging.

MrkLin said:

I'm very passionate about the lifestyle (hence my incredulity in my previous post.) I couldn't believe what I was reading, and crossed the line by getting insulting about it. For that, again, I do apologize. I got negative reputation for that post, and a negative comment. I also got positive reputation points, and a "Good Post!" comment as well. I mention that only to say that it's apparent that I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Somehow this conversation got confused... because I don't think "lifestyle" = "swingers". I think swinging is fetish just like voyeurism. The very thought that if someone isn't swapping that they aren't "one of us" is offensive to me because we don't view the lifestyle like that... and although we had met some people we knew felt like that... we didn't like them because of it. I don't understand why it has to be like that and seriously, I view that opinion as immature and elitist (in a way). Like... "We are swappers... so we are higher up in the food chain because you are just a tease or a poser for not swapping.".

I guess maybe it's preference... but I don't want to be involved with a group of people who feel like that. I think the lifestyle should be about complete freedom to be whoever you want to be in an adult sense... liberated from sexual stigma. This is what drew us to the lifestyle... freedom to express ourselves. I don't view "swapping" as the the goalpost at all and really feel that any view that makes it a goalpost is really close minded.

Sharon and I have swapped many times... but we prefer to go with the flow and NEVER hang out with anyone based on whether we can fuck them or not. Our first mind is always friendship and just having fun doing whatever it is we are doing... playing pool, watching a movie, drinking and shooting the shit or whatever. I am not saying that we never have one night stands... it happens... but we didn't go to the club with the intention of meeting someone to fuck first and foremost. This is what we value about the lifestyle... the freedom to just be ourselves and meet other people who are being themselves... The club is not a meat market to us and neither is the lifestyle. We can't stand people who view it that way... they are like the mold that forms on bread when it's too old... we don't eat it... we throw it out.

2plus2fun said:

The very thought that if someone isn't swapping that they aren't "one of us" is offensive to me because we don't view the lifestyle like that... and although we had met some people we knew felt like that... we didn't like them because of it. I don't understand why it has to be like that and seriously, I view that opinion as immature and elitist (in a way). Like... "We are swappers... so we are higher up in the food chain because you are just a tease or a poser for not swapping."

Earlier you said:

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I think that people who just want to fuck and are not interested in becoming friends (foremost) are just purely sluts or sex addicts.

This post that you made earlier has been bothering me, and now--because of your recent statement, I know why. I think you are a contradiction.

Let me rewrite your most recent statement and switch the focus, that's the best way I can make my point.

The very thought that if someone isn't interested in becoming friends (foremost) they aren't "one of us" is offensive to me because we don't view the lifestyle like that... and although we had met some people we knew felt like that... we didn't like them because of it. I don't understand why it has to be like that and seriously, I view that opinion as immature and elitist (in a way). Like... "We are foremost looking for friends... so we are higher up in the food chain because you are interested swapping rather than making friends."

because I don't think "lifestyle" = "swingers".

My last words on this topic - Lifestyle DOES = Swingers. It is, after all, The Swing Lifestyle, and you're on The Swinger's Board.

2plus2fun said:

Somehow this conversation got confused... because I don't think "lifestyle" = "swingers". I think swinging is fetish just like voyeurism. The very thought that if someone isn't swapping that they aren't "one of us" is offensive to me because we don't view the lifestyle like that... and although we had met some people we knew felt like that... we didn't like them because of it. I don't understand why it has to be like that and seriously, I view that opinion as immature and elitist (in a way).

It is for the same reason I don't call people who don't fish fishermen, or people who don't scuba dive, scuba divers. Its a name, its a label, its a descriptor, its semantics.

The term lifestyle is in my opinion stupid. Its something of a euphemism, and while its grown a bit to mean swingers who live their life around swinging, that's by no mean a set definition.

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Like... "We are swappers... so we are higher up in the food chain because you are just a tease or a poser for not swapping.".

Yea pretty much, mostly because so many of those couples don't TELL you there are just there to get titillated by us raunchy swingers. For the most part we, swingers, don't care if they are at the party because they are a distraction, they are noise in the system. When we rarely have the time and timing for a club visit we don't want to spend time with people who have no desire to swap. Its happened on several occasions. We don't have to swing to have a good time (see there is that word again) but we don't want to spend 2 hours figuring out a couples desires when they never had any desire to swing in the first place.

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I guess maybe it's preference... but I don't want to be involved with a group of people who feel like that. I think the lifestyle should be about complete freedom to be whoever you want to be in an adult sense... liberated from sexual stigma. This is what drew us to the lifestyle... freedom to express ourselves. I don't view "swapping" as the the goalpost at all and really feel that any view that makes it a goalpost is really close minded.

Your lifestyle can be about complete freedom sexually. You can go to those oft talked about 'Erotic Exotic' balls and find just that. You will find your swingers, your exhibitionists, your BSDMers, your god knows whaters, and in that venue its all good and excepted. But if I go to a snuggle party (if you don't know what those are look'em up) I can't be upset if the host doesn't allow swinging, if I go to a BSDM club I would be a twit to complain that there are a lot of shackles and leather, and a bigger twit for being mad that they don't seem to appreciate me standing around in my khaki pants and polo shirt hitting on other peoples wives. So please understand why we swingers want clubs designed for swinging to only have swingers in them, if such a thing were possible. Its hard enough finding couples to play with as it is.

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Sharon and I have swapped many times... but we prefer to go with the flow and NEVER hang out with anyone based on whether we can fuck them or not. Our first mind is always friendship and just having fun doing whatever it is we are doing... playing pool, watching a movie, drinking and shooting the shit or whatever. I am not saying that we never have one night stands... it happens... but we didn't go to the club with the intention of meeting someone to fuck first and foremost. This is what we value about the lifestyle... the freedom to just be ourselves and meet other people who are being themselves... The club is not a meat market to us and neither is the lifestyle.

I fine that you feel that way and you can live 'the lifestyle' in your way without issue. That still doesn't make that nice couple who hangs out and plays pool and only goes to the club to hang out, play pool and watch swingers fuck, a swinger. That is the only issue here. They are included in your lifestyle, and by however you want to define 'the lifestyle' they can be included in your definition, hell from what I gather swingers 'stole' the term from BSDM'ers. What they are not are swingers. They are people who want to hang out with swingers I guess, people who want to watch swingers, hell maybe people who want to be watched, but they do not swap partners, and by definition, not swingers.

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We can't stand people who view it that way... they are like the mold that forms on bread when it's too old... we don't eat it... we throw it out.

I think perhaps you got to a bit of a crescendo in your post here, and perhaps over stated this. To be blunt, swinging is about sex, its about fucking, and primarily fucking other people than your spouse while they get fucked by someone else. I don't care for crude language except where it is appropriate and its appropriate here so there can be no misunderstanding. You can be a swinger without friendship. I think most couples mostly fall into that camp. There are few true swinger friendships, more a lot of good acquaintances. We like you prefer to for friendships in the process but we are in the minority. Now by friends I mean the kind of people you do stuff with outside of the club.

You want to include non-swappers as swingers, but then exclude swingers who don't want to be your friend.

I think the issue isn't what the term swinger is, or how you play, or who should be included in what. The issue is what YOU as in 2plus2fun want out of swinging, and that is friendship. Its not quite cross purpose but its frustrating, so frustrating that we don't worry about it much. Maybe that makes us 'sex crazed' but we look primarily for couples we want to have sex with that want to have sex with us. If it works into a real friendship great, we have had that ourselves, but we won't stress out when it doesn't happen.

This thread seems to have taken a bit of a turn...instead of answering the OP's question it's turned into a debate as to what/who is a swinger/swinging and what/who is not.

An old debate...it always seems that hardcore swingers don't think soft swappers/voyeurs/exhibitionist are true swingers and soft swappers think those of us who like just fucking (with or without friendships involved) are nothing but sluts and sex addicts... Personally I don't really care, as long as Ted and I are having fun that's all that matters to me.

To get back to the original question...

warrencouple said:

Just a thought that crossed my mind (boy for someone who has yet to even poke at the cherry I've got tons of questions) tonight. How do you feel about a newb couple, who won't swap? Not even soft swap. How would you feel, if you went to your favorite on-premise club, saw a couple obviously nervous, got to chatting, think the chemistry is there, but they tell you (before heading to the play area) that they're not willing to even soft swap. They'll do same room sex, and incidental contact won't (they think) freak them out, but that's as far as they'll go.

 

Would you still consider going to play with them? Or do you not consider this "playing" and decline?

No, we wouldn't consider playing...we would have enjoyed the conversation, answered any questions they had but, we would move on. Our play time is extremely limited and when we go out to play, we're going out to fuck others.

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Or, do you see the "deer in the headlights" looks, and stay clear of them, thus avoiding the situation entirely?

We would not avoid them, we would stop and talk and enjoy the conversation, we just wouldn't play with them. Soft swap or just same room sex is not our thing so we wouldn't be a good match for them.

There's nothing wrong with new couples taking their time to find their footing in swinging. Being up front with those they meet is always best. It's through conversation and letting others know what you're into that we're all able to find those who we're most compatible with.

Teresa