Frustrated with finding other couples

hi guys,

i apologize for the length of this post and i promise that at the end, there is a question but first, a little background:

my wife and i have been swinging off and on now for about 2.5 or 3 years. In that time, we've only managed to find three couples that we actually got to play with (all of them through SLS). all of our experiences have been pretty good for the most part but we've found ourselves in the middle of a year-long drought.

our relationship with the first couple was almost 100% sexual. we found that we didn't really have all that in common and we just didn't click in the way we had hoped. while we managed to have some decent sessions with them, we kind of drifted apart in a quiet, mutual fashion. they were our first couple so we chalked it up to experience and moved on.

the second couple we met was awesome. we really enjoyed them, became pretty close and did our most exploring with them. we spent several months hanging out and just getting to know each other before we finally decided to play. because we became friends with them and liked hanging out with them, it made our playdates so much more relaxed and enjoyable. we played with them exclusively for over a year and then gradually we started noticing that the female half didn't seem that into it anymore. they ended up moving away shortly after that and we haven't played with them since. we went to visit them once with full expectations of playing but it never happened and we came to the conclusion that this era had simply come to an end. we barely hear from them anymore but we've all expressed interest in remaining friends.

the third and last couple started off very similarly to the second in that we spent a lot of time getting to know them and going out on dates together before we actually got down to business. we had one session with them that went ok, but not great. we hung out with them once after that about a week later and then they just kind of fell off the planet. we'd write them every once in a while and then we'd go weeks, sometimes months, at a time without hearing back from them. when they did write, they'd say something like they were really busy and sorry for not writing sooner. we certainly understand that things can get hectic and tried not to take it too personally. we'd write back and suggest getting together but when we'd make plans they'd flake out at the last minute. finally, after a particular long silence from them, my wife wrote them and asked point blank if they were still interested in swinging with us. they wrote back and said that they had been wanting to talk to us about it but didn't know how and then went on to say that they felt like they needed to work some stuff out between them and really needed to take a break. so, that's that.

we're now "single" and wanting to get back into the game but are a little reluctant about how to go about it. from our experience we've learned that we only feel comfortable taking on one or two couples at a given time and that we prefer for our relationships with potential partners to extend beyond the bedroom. we're not looking to become best friends with anyone but we do want to LIKE them. we find that it's much easier to communicate wants/needs in that situation not to mention much sexier.

now, we're finally getting down to the question(s) . are we setting our sights too high? we want to meet people that we can be friends with but we're both pretty sensitive and it seems to hurt our egos when we invest time into people just to have them suddenly drop off the planet. we thought about meeting people for "just sex" but found our main problem with that first couple we meet was it felt too cold and clinical. i know that everyone's experiences are different but i'm wondering how other couples on this board are choosing to relate with their swing partners. what are you looking for and have you found it? if so, how? advice?

thanks!

are we setting our sights too high? we want to meet people that we can be friends with but we're both pretty sensitive and it seems to hurt our egos when we invest time into people just to have them suddenly drop off the planet. we thought about meeting people for "just sex" but found our main problem with that first couple we meet was it felt too cold and clinical. i know that everyone's experiences are different but i'm wondering how other couples on this board are choosing to relate with their swing partners. what are you looking for and have you found it? if so, how? advice?

I don't think you're setting sights too high. I think it's reasonable to want to be friends and lovers, but it's hard to find couples where that works out consistently. We've had a similar experience with couples. Every couple we meet (so far 3) helps us define what we're looking for in some way. Someone on another post put it this way: It took us a lot of trial and error before we found our ideal partner, it stands to reason that it would be the same when seeking a couple to play with.

And just as an aside, I hate it when people drop off the planet or give lame excuses, rather than just come out and say "hey, we're not interested right now." I'd rather just hear it like it is, than get my hopes up that somebody's telling me the truth and something's going to come of this when it's not.

what are you looking for and have you found it? if so, how? advice?

Our desires have changed so much since we first started this adventure. We look at it as fantasy fulfillment and great sex, versus friendships. We have made some great friends, but they are not necessarily bedmates.

It has been much easier to make friends than find another couple where all are attracted. On the flip side, the FF connection has been much easier to find.

We're not in search mode, just letting things happen as they will. Takes alot of pressure off that way. We haven't used the search function at SLS in months. We just accept party invitations, host parties, go to clubs, and put ourselves in the environment to meet the right couples or singles every other weekend.

Have fun!

Mrs. D

 

And just as an aside, I hate it when people drop off the planet or give lame excuses, rather than just come out and say "hey, we're not interested right now." I'd rather just hear it like it is, than get my hopes up that somebody's telling me the truth and something's going to come of this when it's not.

this is what bothers me the most. my wife and i both think it's extremely important to keep communication open and it frustrates us to no end when people just ***DISAPPEAR***. they say they're into us and that they're interested in playing but then out of the blue they just stop answering phone calls and emails. i don't get it and i think it's beyond rude. head bang. we're not needy pushy psychos or something so it's starting to give me a complex...

we also are frustrated with the online version of swinging. Trying to arrange a meet on the internet is so time consuming, compared to just going to an on prem for 4-5 hours every 4-6 weeks. We have had much much more luck swinging at the clubs.

The pay sites exagerate the odds of you meeting someone from their site. With all of the photoshopped and stolen pics on profiles and difficulty determining if there is indeed a willing wife, the search on the pay sites becomes a huge guessing game/wild goose chase.

Go to a social, meet-n-greet, or club. We were afraid of the idea of going at first, but that's the fastest way that we've gotten to meet a large number of people. You can see people in person, strike up a conversation, see if the chemestry is right and make plans to meet later. It's a lot less stressful and time consuming than the online route. We now have a great group of friends that we've met through people we've met at socials. You get to know people, they invite you to other events and presto: you've met 3 times more people than you would have just sitting online.

Pepper

Couples/couples play is SO HARD. You have NO idea. You have to realize that dating is hard enough, MUCH LESS having 4 people vs. 2 who have to be attracted!! It takes a certain amount of compromise in truth. Do we all want to find couples that pass the bar test (meaning a person good looking to where we would pick them up in a bar)??? Of COURSE! But swinging is about real people. Its very hard in truth. We have 2 couples that we play with pretty frequently, and it took us a year of looking in order to find them. Anyways, fun is in the searching though!!

Shelly

Been there! Done that! But we definately still think that "online swinging" is better than meeting a couple at a club and having sex right away. So, here are the things that you have to keep in mind:

1. People have ups and downs in their chemistry within a couple. Sometimes couples find themselves shifting their priority to family or to their own relationship. So, it's rarely YOU who somehow turned them off.

2. People don't know how to say NO. So, the best next thing for them is to just "disappear". I hate that myself, but you just have to accept it.

3. It is 6 times as hard to maintain a couple-to-couple relationship than a fuck buddy-to-fuck buddy. All 4 people have to have some sort of a good bond/relationship going from one to another. And that's rarely possible for more than a few weeks.

4. You may spend a little less time "dating". I'm not saying jump on the first cock ( or into the first pussy ) you see. But understand that if you have sexual chemistry between another couple - it shoudl be apparent within a couple of meets and there is no reason to wait to go further.

Hope this helps!

Do I think your expectations are too high? Well that is a tough question, but in the end, only you can decide that. Please keep in mind I am not saying you are right or wrong, I am merely going to point out a few things about the lifestyle, only you can decide what works for you. I think you need to break it down so that you can fully understand what is going on. First off swinging is about having SEX with someone other than your SO (significant other). Whether you do that together, separately, in the same room or separate rooms, at a club, house party, hotel, private home, in the end it is all about having sex with other people. It is NOT about dating other people. It is not any easier to make friends in the lifestyle than it is in the vanilla world. I personally think that too much emphasis is put on being “friends first”. Most of us had that thought when we first got into swinging; it was a way to justify having sex with them, which made us feel that it was ok as long as there was something more to it than just sex. The reality is that it is just about sex. Most find that there is less frustration and drama when you get to that point. Most people have a limited amount of time to devote to friends and even less to the lifestyle. In addition, most are very guarded about keeping the lifestyle and their regular lives separate. Therefore, given that, you will find that many people are not perusing true friendship within the lifestyle. The friendships that have developed have done so over time, just like in the vanilla world. You will also find that many people do not want to take the time to let friendship develop first before any playing happens. After all swinging is about having SEX. Most are involved with the lifestyle because they want to have SEX, they are reluctant to take all the time and energy it takes to being “friends first” with the possibility that there is no “pay off” (sex) at the other end. This may sound cruel and rude, but it the reality of the situation. Don’t get me wrong, the lifestyle is what YOU make it, and if you need to have your play partners be “friends” or something more significant that just casual sex, then you need to keep in mind that you are going to experience more frustration and that how you view the lifestyle in different than how most do. Moreover, because of that you will have a harder time finding couples that meet your “requirements”. We recently had a few lifestyle friends over to our house and we all got to talking about the lifestyle, we started talking about how our views have changed over time and the things we all wish we had known when we first started. Of course, the idea of being friends first or only playing with people that were more than just “sex” came up. A friend made a comment that we all laughed at first, but then all seriously agreed that he was right. He said, “In reality, you don’t have to know the other person or even really like them. You just need to be able to get along with them for about an hour or so, hell you don’t really need to know their last name”. I know to some that will sound terrible, but to those who have been around the lifestyle for a while you will understand. You will find that MOST people you meet and play with will only be a one time thing and that you or they are NOT interested in perusing things past that. If I had to put a percentage on it, I would say 80-90 percent of the people you will meet and play with are just a one-time thing. The reality is that you meet a couple, you take time to get acquainted, they seem like the type of people you could be friends with everyone decides to go play and then afterwards you go your separate ways, you or they decide that there is no need to go there again. That DOES NOT mean that anything was wrong, in fact, it just might have been a good experience, everyone seemed to have a good time, no problems or drama, but afterwards for whatever reason nothing comes of it. We have found that when you do develop a good friendship with a couple both in and out of the lifestyle you start having sex with them less and less as your friendship grows. We have made a few great friends in the lifestyle in fact some of them we consider them to be family. We see each other all the time even go to the same lifestyle functions together, but rarely play with each other. For some reason that is how close friendships seem to go when it comes to the lifestyle, I am sure there are exceptions to this, but I am speaking from what I have observed, since getting into the lifestyle over 10 years ago. If you and your SO only feel comfortable with playing (having sex) with people who are friends, then you need to keep in mind that MOST people you encounter are NOT going to be on the same page with you. I hope that that will keep you from being so frustrated. You will need to be more patient and not let the situation frustrate you, since your ideal couple is going to be harder to find. Just remember that this is about having fun, try not to take things too seriously. As far as the situation you describe with the couple you met, got to know, went on a few dates to get better acquainted, played and then shortly afterwards they disappeared. We have all had that experience, it just goes with the territory, does not make it any easier, but it does happen from time to time. It is harder to take when you are looking to make friends from the start with a couple.

T – Mr. Ménage

I agree, however I would like to add; the Internet has allowed the lifestyle to become more available or noticeable to many more people than before. The information on what "it" is and what "it" is not is easy to find. And with all the sites and forums like this, you can learn and read a great many minds. My point is; the lifestyle being just about sex or even about sex FIRST and foremost, is changing like it or not. There are those of us that would have never even considered swinging and still won't unless we can bring our vanilla BS with us. Some of us just grew up not being that open with strangers and don't really want to start now. Heck, we would never have even dreamed the lifestyle existed outside of some 70s movies if it were not for the Internet. So, here we are the non-conformist-friends-first-swingers. We may be few, but we are growing in numbers. It is no threat to anyone else, because this is big enough for all, right?

G

I agree, however I would like to add; the Internet has allowed the lifestyle to become more available or noticeable to many more people than before. The information on what "it" is and what "it" is not is easy to find. And with all the sites and forums like this, you can learn and read a great many minds. My point is; the lifestyle being just about sex or even about sex FIRST and foremost, is changing like it or not. There are those of us that would have never even considered swinging and still won't unless we can bring our vanilla BS with us. Some of us just grew up not being that open with strangers and don't really want to start now. Heck, we would never have even dreamed the lifestyle existed outside of some 70s movies if it were not for the Internet. So, here we are the non-conformist-friends-first-swingers. We may be few, but we are growing in numbers. It is no threat to anyone else, because this is big enough for all, right?

 

G

But one problem here as far as I can tell from your limited postings.

You aren't a swinger yet, you haven't done the one thing that makes a swinger a swinger, and thats exchanged partners.

You are telling people 'how it is' when you, quite frankly, have no idea what you are talking about. You are posting a 'how you want it to be', and we've been there, and it only RARELY works.

Yes you are correct that the internet has introduced swinging to a generation of people who might not have every looked into swinging without it. That being said this doesn't change the dynamics of swinging, only the ease of contact.

Our area is FULL of friends first couples, we have met several of them, and either they are taking BABY baby steps into becoming 'real' swingers or they are just sort of looking in. In no case have we known them to actually swing.

The problem, and I've posted this before, has nothing to do with swinging but really to do with friendship. Its pretty much impossible to 'become' true friends when the underlying motivation is sexual. You can't make someone your friend, you have to have interests, personalties, etc that all work together, and when thats topped with the desire to nail each others wives, its pretty much doomed to failure.

Do you just find random people and say 'hey lets be friends?' No. But you think that you can find what is basically a random couple, and say 'hey lets be friends and after we can fuck!' It would be great if it worked that way but it doesn't.

So I hate to tell you this but swinging IS about sex first and foremost because thats what works. Any friendships that develop will mostly develop AFTER the sex, not before, and even then not because of swinging but because you have something else in common.

The reason you will find some hostility twords this, is, quite frankly, we hate having our time 'wasted'. Maybe swinging is a baby step adventure to you, where you will think and analyze and decide if 'they are the ones', but we have only so much free time for this sort of thing and not all swinger-sorta-kinda-wannabes let you know ahead of time. Over the years we have learned the 'warning signs' from such couples and now avoid them, but its only after many 'wasted' meetings.

Now all this being said I think most couples start with this mythical ideal as what they are looking for. The question is how long before you snap out of it. If after you meet a couple you like and are sexually attracted to but you are not 'ready' to pay after a couple of meetings, odds are you are just not ready for swinging period and no amount of family BBQ's together will change that.

Actually, I tentatively agree with what you are saying. I say that because as you have pointed out, we have not yet fully swapped. We have played; I guess you would call it "softswap", but I don't draw the official "you've swung" line there.

Of course the reason we have not fully swapped as of yet is the subject of this thread. You may well be totally right regarding your assessment of friendship vs sex. However, I know and have read many folks that have created what you are saying does not work or can't happen. I do think that it's rare for 4 people to become friends and then keep that through sex.

I think people that have been in the lifestyle a year or more before, let's say 2000 would possibly be in complete agreement with your view. People that would normally NOT be predisposed to seeking out the lifestyle; can now just happen upon it through google or whatever. Some of these people may explore and gain access into what is still a sorta secret society here. This will change and impact the community in whole.

I believe these people that would otherwise play it safe, may like the idea of fantasy fulfillment. I for one, have only slept, er uh had complete intercourse with a handful of girls. I love sex and am not offended by much of anything, however my desire for swinging sex is more for the quality moments with a few verses the quantity of the many. I have no problem whatsoever with any ones desire in the LS. I am not judging nor do I want to be judged.

I am just saying that anytime you have an influx of new people into any organization, you will have change.

Now is your opinion the reality of things, no matter who gets into the LS? It just might be. Of course I hope not, but I really do respect every ones desire and beliefs. I also, hope we find a few people that can have a more intimate relationship with. Just enough for everyone to trust and let go....and have fun!

OH, I totally agree about wasting others time. I wish there were a sign or flag for those of us that were new or just friends first. I don't want to waste any ones time. All the sites have flags for Bi, age, etc... There really should be one for the others.

I agree with Mr. Menage and Chicup, and I don't know if the OP is setting their sights to high or not either, but I get the feeling their expectations are a bit high.

In the 5+ years we have been swinging we have met many people in the lifestyle, we have also played with more than I can count, yet we have made very few friends. The interesting thing to me is that many of the folks we thought were friends, with only a few exceptions, disappeared from our lives when we decided we didn't want to play with them any more. This just underlines the fact that just because two couples are compatible for sex doesn't mean that they can be life long friends without the sex. In fact, the opposite has been our experience, most of the play partners we have had we don't have enough in common with to be vanilla friends outside of the lifestyle. Additionally, most of the people we have met through the lifestyle who have went on to become good friends, we rarely, if ever, have sex with.

The problem with the "friends first" theory of swinging is, most swingers are not willing to wait around long enough to see if you can be their friend. So not only do you have to find others that are "friends first", a minority of those who actually play with other couples, but you have to be real lucky and hit one that also has enough in common with you to be friends. From my experience, that makes the single bi-female (unicorn), an easy find by comparison.

My guess, is that the OP is experiencing what we have seen happen to others we know that want to be friends with their play partners. The people they meet will honestly say that they are willing to be friends, as most of us are if it turns out in the long run that we really do connect on some level outside the bedroom. They are really just meeting you to see if you would be compatible in bed though. When the new play partner glow wears off, more often than not, they will fade out of your life in pursuit of the next play partner. That is the way it is, because even though everyone is willing to make new friends, it is just as difficult in swinging as it is in real life and their just aren't that many people you meet that will become your life long buddies.

Most couples in the lifestyle already have a lifelong friend and sex partner as a spouse. And while some might think they are a magician in the sack, I have yet to have a sex partner that was better than my wife. We and most swingers we know do it for the recreational sex and the variety, after a few play sessions with a new partner it is usually time to move on. We aren't looking for life long play partners, we already have one, nor do we know any "experienced" swingers who are.

And while it is true that, at least at the clubs we go to and through the online ads, that more newbies all the time are looking for the "friends first' scenario in swinging. The people who are actually playing at the clubs or on the ad sites are still "sex first", and I don't see that changing significantly in the near future.

Chipup and Goodtimes make very valid and real points about what REALLY goes on in the lifestyle. It is amazing to me how many people who have had very limited or NO actual experience like to give advise or expound on what the lifestyle is or isn't, and how things work or should work. I am not saying that swinging is the same for everyone, nor am I saying that everyone should do or be searching for the same thing. However, what most do NOT understand is the fact that no matter how much reading, studying, researching, discussing, thinking, praying, or consulting a crystal ball you do it will not tell you if swinging is for you and how you will react, and in reality it will also NOT give you a road map for what REALLY happens in swinging. Almost all of us came into the lifestyle with what we thought it was and just how we wanted it to be. The fact of the matter is we did not have a clue. It is amazing how your view on the lifestyle changes after you have had several ACTUAL play experiences. Most start with a very idealist approach to the lifestyle, fueled by fantasies, movies, TV and our own ability to think we will make it more than it really is. Most started off with long list of rules, because of insecurities and trust. As theses couples gained experience, they realized that most if not all theses rules were silly or unnecessary, and those fell by the wayside. Over time, you realize that your views on the lifestyle have changed, and that your initial ideas about it were incorrect. Does it mean that you are wrong for coming into it with certain expectations or ideals? Not at all, we all had them. However, just like MOST things in life reality is nothing like what we want it to be. So why would anyone think swinging would be different? Is it because SEX is involved? Please DO NOT take this to mean that I have a dim view of the lifestyle, in fact the opposite is true. I think the lifestyle is wonderful, in fact it got MUCH better once we got past our idealist attitudes about it, then we could relax and have fun with it. In addition, guess what, the frustration and drama levels went WAY down.

I think the comment The Deal made about all the new people in the lifestyle since 2000 and how they are going to change the lifestyle was very interesting. The Deal suggest, that the internet has made swinging more accessible to more people. Moreover, it certainly has made it easier for people to find out about it and in effect, it has brought more people into the lifestyle. Along with the increase of new people who really are interested in becoming part of the lifestyle, it has brought in several people who are NOT swingers or lifestyle people. People who want to hang out with swingers, who like the idea of going to swing clubs and parties, but have NO intention of ever ACTUALLY participating. They say they like the freedom, the taboo, the naughtiness, or the energy of being around swingers, they want to just hang out and watch, and it is exciting for them. I am sorry but we are not animals in a zoo for them to watch. We are also not entertainers for you to see a live sex show. I cannot tell you the number of couples we have met in the last few years who say they are lifestyle people but that they are just voyeurs! Sorry but they are NOT swingers. Yes Deal, you are right the lifestyle has started to change, but NOT in a positive way. It kills me the number of people that attend clubs and parties that are just there to look and watch people have sex. In addition, most get quite offended when you approach them about joining in, usually with a shocked look on their face like how dare you ask me that.

I/we have been around the lifestyle for over 10 years and very active in it for most of that time. What I have noticed about the lifestyle is that there is by far less drama from true swingers who truly “get” the lifestyle, than from those who only think they know what is going on.

T – Mr. Ménage

wow, i have to say that i'm somewhat surprised at the direction that this thread has taken. while i'm trying to understand and appreciate everyone's point of view, i'm also a bit taken aback by some of the comments that i'm seeing. honestly, some of these comments have made me pretty angry.

first of all, it seems that the subject of "friends" in the "lifestyle" is a hot button issue that i wasn't aware of. i simply stated that we were looking for people that we could have a deeper connection than "just sex" because we tried the just sex route and DID NOT LIKE IT. we found a couple that we hung out with off and on for a few months before we actually got to the sex and we enjoyed it immensely... for over a year. because we all enjoyed hanging out together and liked each other outside of the bedroom, we felt more comfortable, we trusted them and it made the experience all the better. we drifted apart from that couple over time and while it sucked, we accepted it and tried to find a similar situation.

nowhere did i state in my original post that we were looking for best friends or lifelong swing partners. we know that swinging is about SEX with other people so we don't need to be reminded of that. we're not newbies and we're not trying to make friends with people just so we can justify the sex. so please tell me, where in the "lifestyle" handbook does it say that you're not allowed to find people that you're comfortable with? we don't want to go to clubs or meet and greets because that is not our speed. we prefer to meet people in a lower stress environment and get to know them a little better on a more personal level. again, not as bestest friends in the whole wide world, but just something more than "whacha doing tonight? wanna fuck?" why is that unacceptable? btw, i'm not judging anyone who goes to clubs or can have sex with someone moments after meeting them, it's just not for us.

it's discussions like this that make me hate labeling myself as a swinger. quite frankly, i don't like people telling me that other people aren't truly "swingers" because they don't fit criteria X, Y and Z. what's that all about? if there's so much talk of openness, tolerance, and honesty on this board why are people so quick to tell other people what they are or are not? the bottom line is my wife and i are sexual beings who want to experiment with other couples. call us what you will but if having sex in the same room as another couple or having a soft swap doesn't make us swingers then fuck it. i don't want to be one. i don't think i need to tell you were you can put your labels...

forgive me for my anger but this is just plain silly. if swinging's just about biological FUCKING then what's the point of putting up a profile? why give your interests and put up your personal information if it doesn't count for anything? we have found people that we liked before so we know it's not impossible. personally, i'm not attracted to just looks. i find that 70% of my attraction to a woman is her personality. i find it hard to believe that i'd be in the minority on that one. perhaps we all just have different definitions of "friends?"

i can understand that some of the more experienced people on the board are tired of being jerked around but not everyone is wired to just jump into bed with other people without at least getting to know them a little bit first. for some, it's a scary prospect. if it bothers you, then simply don't play with them. most newbies state that they're newbies on their profiles so don't go near them and stick to the people who post nothing but hard-on and pussy pics on their profile. those people are the "real deal", right?

i'm just surprised at the narrowmindedness of some of these posts. i came here looking for help and i feel like i've been judged or lumped into other people's bad experiences. for those of you who actually read my post and responded to it respectfully, thank you. your opinions and thoughts are much appreciated.

first of all, it seems that the subject of "friends" in the "lifestyle" is a hot button issue that i wasn't aware of.

Now you know. It is a hot-button issue around here.

i simply stated that we were looking for people that we could have a deeper connection than "just sex" because we tried the just sex route and DID NOT LIKE IT. we found a couple that we hung out with off and on for a few months before we actually got to the sex and we enjoyed it immensely... for over a year.

It seems to me that you answered your own question: you are not "setting your sights too high", because you proved that you can find what you are looking for. You had the situation you wanted for over a year. That's pretty damn good! But I'm sure it's perfectly obvious that your frustration is caused by your preferences being a tall order, one only filled by a select few people, like the couple you found.

Yes, you've been judged and lumped into other peoples' bad experiences. Sorry about that. You're frustrated about your experiences, and others are frustrated about theirs. I believe that you can avoid being someone else's bad experience by being up-front with anyone you talk to or meet, either online or in person. You are probably already doing that, so bravo.

You're definitely looking for something unusual... a couple that you are both attracted to, who are attracted to you, and who are willing to spend some longer-than-average amount of time getting to know you before swapping. How long is long enough? The answer varies. You two are at one end of the continuum and you don't have a lot of company, but it's who you are.

not everyone is wired to just jump into bed with other people without at least getting to know them a little bit first.

Fair enough. There are plenty of swingers who at least want one non-play date before exchanging partners. Mr. Fuse and I are definitely in that category; although we have played on first dates, we normally wait until the second date.

However, there are not a lot who want to spend literally months getting to know each other first, as you wrote you did with the couple you had a good relationship with for a year. Most people are not willing to do that. There are good reasons for that... you don't know whether the sexual relationship is going to work until you go for it, maybe several times. If you've sunk lots of your free time into a relationship before finding out that the sex is not good, it is a lot of effort to expend before discovering a deal-breaker.

You're entitled to feel the way you do, but you also have to be ready to be frustrated a lot in order to get what you want eventually.

We have developed very close relationships with two couples. But in both cases, we started having sex after meeting twice or so, and knowing that we all liked each other as people as well as having an attraction.

Here's the thing: You never can tell right away who you're going to stick with over the long term. There were a few other couples who we really liked and were hoping for longer-term relationships, but one kind of drifted away and the other stopped swinging. We have been very lucky, but even with odds like that, we wouldn't want to wait very long before having sex with people we liked. It only makes it easier to be together and get to know each other better, in my opinion.

Not only that, but to state the obvious: we're horny, and we're after sexual variety.

lovemonkey,

it sounds like y'all are looking at more of an exclusive or poly relationship. And this is COOL if thats what y'all are into. We recently had a couple tell us that they wanted us to be exclusive because they wanted to have a very intimate experience. We politely declined. Not because we are just against the idea, because we aren't. However, we do enjoy meeting different people. And if we meet a couple and decide to play with them we do not want to feel like we have to explain to our relationship couple who or why or what. So we do our own thing. Don't become angry because people render their opinions. Trust me, alot of these people are a wealth of information. Menage has been invaluable to me in my growth in the lifestyle, mwah to all 3 of them!!

Do things at your own comfort levels...but do not get mad because people give you an opinion you do not agree with.

Shelly

The Fuse makes some good points, and I have to admit, we do get frustrated when interacting with folks that seem to take forever to decide whether they want to play or not.

I was not trying to make you angry lovemonkey#1, nor was I trying to say that what your doing is wrong, I was simply giving my opinion, albeit in very general terms.

Does it surprise you that others would not be interested in spending months getting to know you before getting to the sex? The reason I ask, is that outside of the clubs where you might happen to see other regulars for months before hooking up, I have never met anyone in the lifestyle willing to do that. Frankly, most of us just haven't got that kind of time to spend finding play partners.

Obviously their are at least a few others that are interested in what you are as you indicated finding couples in the past this way. All I am saying is that most aren't interested in a long "get to know you" period, so it is no surprise, to me at least, that you might have a harder time finding someone than some of us do.

As far as people just disappearing at some point goes, I hate to say it, but that is usually how it goes. And it might surprise you to hear it, but that is usually for the best. Almost every time we have tried to explain to people that we weren't interested in playing with them any more it has just led to hurt feelings. What then happens is the people you tried to explain to take it personally, get pissed off, and never talk to you again. So generally, we actually prefer it if we have no expectations of multiple play sessions with a given couple. If we someday play again, great, but it isn't required or expected. We find that we can then still be sociable and friendly with each other without the expectations or pressure of being their steady play partner. Is our way for everybody, probably not, but it is the way that has proven to work for most.

personally, i'm not attracted to just looks. i find that 70% of my attraction to a woman is her personality. i find it hard to believe that i'd be in the minority on that one. perhaps we all just have different definitions of "friends?"

I think that most swingers would agree with you on this, I don't think it is a matter of different definitions of friends, but more a difference in degree of how good friends we need to be to get to the sex. The only difference that I can see between you and I is that I can talk to someone for an hour or so and decide whether I am sexually attracted to the person or not, physically, mentally, and personality wise. In fact, it has been my experience that the more I get to know someone, and the more I become involved in their personal life, the less interested I am in having sex with them. Just going by all the swingers that I know personally, I would say that like most swingers I am about average, a few are as you describe yourself who require a longer "get to know you" period, others will jump into bed with someone with no more than a "howdy, wanna fuck". I am not trying to say that any of these is right or wrong, it is whatever works for you, but if you are in the minority it shouldn't be any surprise that it is a bit harder to find compatible partners.

hi all,

thanks for the responses. just to clear up a few things:

1. we are not interested in a poly or even an exclusive relationship. we just want to find a couple or two that we like and can have semi-regular sessions with. true, it may take us a little time to get to know people but to us it's worth it. if they don't work out, then ok. we can take it. we're not broken hearted or anything, just somewhat frustrated with the process and were wondering how other people dealt with it.

2. the reason we've chosen to only take on two couples at a time is because we have extremely hectic schedules and we simply don't have the time and energy to constantly look for new couples, get to know them, etc. we aren't into the club scene on a vanilla level, much less on a swinger one, so that's not really an option for us. it's just been tiring because we were sitting around waiting for these couples to get back in touch with us instead of prowling the swinger sites all the time looking for new partners.

3. we live in dc where everyone is a work-a-holic and it's a huge pain in the ass organizing everyone's schedules and finding a time where we can all get together. i know everyone knows what i'm talking about here. the months long "getting to know you" period is for us usually a "hey, we can't get together with you now but we're still interested" email correspondence type of thing. when we finally do get a chance to meet, we typically get together once or twice, talk about our expectations, etc and then work from there. considering that most of the couples we've talked to are newbies and want to take things slow, i don't think this is too much of a problem. so, our lack of speedy forward movement isn't because we're scared or we're being wishy-washy. it's because we're all trying to find the time to do it and take into account everyone's comfort level. again, i know everyone can relate to that. i just wish i didn't have to justify myself in this.

4. i'm not getting mad that people have different opinions than me on how things should function for them in the "lifestyle". to each his own and all that. what i'm frustrated about is this prevailing attitude that some people have regarding what constitutes a "true" swinger. frankly, my wife and i are both horny and are interested in experimenting with other couples just like many others on this board. i just don't like that some are acting as if they have all this privileged information and that only their sexual experimentation is valid because they've fulfilled certain requirements. just because someone may have been with more people or had different types of experiences doesn't make them somehow superior to others.

5. we know that it's supposed to be fun and we, for the most part, have a good attitude about it all. we're just trying to get back into the game and were looking for advice but i felt that instead we got lectured on what it means to be a swinger and that there was something wrong with us because we didn't want to just jump in bed with someone that we weren't comfortable with. it seems amiss to me that the community as a whole keeps saying "no means no" and "swinging is what you make it" and then in the same breath tells me that that i'm not truly a swinger because i'm not doing it right. to me, that's not being supportive, it's being judgmental.

thanks again for all the advice and i again apologize for losing my temper...

Do what feels right to YOU.

Do not be persuaded by what 'swingers' tell you is 'the way it is'.

Swingers are like Jelly Bellies-they are delightfully delicious alone-but not all combinations are tastey. For example-you do NOT want to mix a buttered popcorn jelly belly with a cappacino jelly belly. Ick. :surrender although extremely tasty with the RIGHT pairing, they just don't match up.

People are so totally different-and that is TOTALLY OKAY! as long as you have patience to find who YOU are looking for stick with it.

(but if you are looking to speed the process my advice is attend a swingers club or swingers party where you can meet people face to face right there & know whether or not you even want to become friends.)

.....but I'm just a southern girl who likes Arbor Mist & vodka........

For what it is worth, we have never really been into the vanilla club scene either, but swingers clubs are a whole different thing. For us, the reason we go to clubs rather than use the swinger ad sites to meet people is mainly a matter of available time management. We can meet as many compatible couples in one night at a club as we can in several months of contacting people on the swinger date sites. Actually, we have met more compatible couples in any 2-4 club nights than we have in 5 years of being on SLS.

We belong to CT and meet a ton of folks from there. Of course it helps that it is more focused on the local scene. It's funny, the clubs are almost an extension of the site. You see the same people, you just hate to call them thier profile name. he-he!

I totally agree about wasting others time. I wish there were a sign or flag for those of us that were new or just friends first. I don't want to waste any ones time. All the sites have flags for Bi, age, etc... There really should be one for the others.

When we meet other couples, we typically simply ask them straight out what they are looking for, in a courteous manner. This is the fastest way to know if we are incompatible. We even ask people we're not interested in, just because we're all open about our sexuality and it's fun to talk about it. It doesn't have to lead anywhere.

And obviously your profile ought to state quite clearly whether you're a "friends first" couple, or really just looking to hang out with people who swing. Just because there's no "flag" as there is for being a bi-sexual is no reason to hold back the information. That's what the profile is for. TheDeal, I bet your profile is clear on your place in the lifestyle, right?

Other people ask us the same questions. When we were newbies, it was a little disconcerting to be asked, "Are you bisexual"? or "Do you play on the first date"?, or, at a party, "Hey, wanna go back to our room?" after meeting only for a few minutes, but we got over any discomfort with being asked those things pretty quickly. No one means any harm or disrespect.

As the OP has found out, there are some hot-button issues in the lifestyle... a few of the big ones discussed often here are: how well you have to know each other before you feel comfortable playing, whether you'll do separate rooms, how much girl-girl action you're looking for, whether you're a full swap couple, whether you insist on condoms and more.

I think one of the differences between newbies and veterans is that most veterans will just get everything out in the open before a lot of energy is wasted. At least, I hope this is the case, and I also hope I don't insult anyone by saying that. A lot of the frustrations with finding compatible couples can be short-circuited with a little conversation. If you discover deal-breakers, then you can keep talking and making friends with each other without wondering if it's going anywhere, and move on when it's right.

First off, I would like to apologize if anyone took offense to my post on this subject. I would also like to clarify a few things. At no point did I say in either post that there was only one way to swing. At no point did I say that taking the time to find people you are comfortable was wrong or that it made you less of a swinger. If fact I said the opposite

I am not saying that swinging is the same for everyone, nor am I saying that everyone should do or be searching for the same thing.

Do I think your expectations are too high? Well that is a tough question, but in the end, only you can decide that. Please keep in mind I am not saying you are right or wrong, I am merely going to point out a few things about the lifestyle, only you can decide what works for you...

 

.....Don’t get me wrong, the lifestyle is what YOU make it, and if you need to have your play partners be “friends” or something more significant that just casual sex, then you need to keep in mind that you are going to experience more frustration and that how you view the lifestyle in different than how most do. Moreover, because of that you will have a harder time finding couples that meet your “requirements”.

My original post was intended to address the title of this thread and the OP's post about what was going on and how to get back into the "game". I was merely pointing why they maybe experiencing a "drought" and why many couples shy away from the "friends first" crowd. It was an attempt to help with their frustration, by understanding why it is difficult to find what they are looking for. It was not an accusation that they were doing anything wrong, nor was I being condescending.

My second post was NOT directed at the OP. It was in reaction to things that another poster stated about the lifestyle and how the new people in it were changing it. It did become a bit of a rant, and strayed from the OP's subject, for that I apologize. However, I still stand by the points I was trying to make to the other poster about the lifestyle and the "changes" on the horizon.

If anyone was offended because they thought I was saying they were NOT swingers (I know the OP hates that term, but it is the easiest way to address those of us who are in the Swinging Lifestyle), let me clarify what I said and how it was meant.

The Swing Lifestyle encompasses people from all walks of life and a wide variety of sexual appetites. To me a "swinger" or "lifestyle person" is someone interested in pursuing sex (full swap or soft swap) with someone other than his or her SO. I do NOT think that there is only one way to pursue the lifestyle, nor do I think that everyone has to jump right into bed with the first person he or she meets. Everyone MUST be comfortable with what is going on or it just does not work for them. This is all about having fun, if you are doing something you are not comfortable with, and then you are not having fun. Just like most people in the lifestyle, I believe that couples should approach and pursue things at their own pace, regardless of what anyone else thinks. If you are only comfortable taking baby steps and easing your way into things that is great or if you want to jump into the deep end with both feet that is ok too. Some couples start wanting to full swap, while others only want to do a little petting and oral. There is no right or wrong way, only what you and your partner is comfortable doing. However, one thing that most have in common is that at some point they hope to get comfortable enough with the each other and the right couple (or people) so that it progresses to some form of sexual exchange. Everyone’s approach and comfort level varies. Some people are only interested in soft play, while others desire full swaps in separate rooms and of course everything in between. At the end of the end of the day, after all is said and done you still have to be ok with each other, the relationship with your SO is the most important thing. The lifestyle is not for everyone, truth be told there are actually only a small percentage of people who can be in the lifestyle, because of the dynamics of it. Most people are not wired that way. That in no way makes us right and them wrong, it is just who we are. In the same way that some people are straight and some are bi or gay, it is just who they are, not right or wrong. What I was addressing in my rant, had to do with what The DEAL said about the influx of new people into the lifestyle and how they were changing it. When I was talking about people not being true swingers it had to do with a growing trend at clubs and parties of people who do not intend to be swingers and are only there because they think hanging out with swingers is "cool". They are turned on by the open sexuality of it, but have no desire or intention of participating. There is an increasing number of people who attend clubs and parties that are only there so that they can watch a "live sex" show. For those that do not attend swing clubs or parties you may not know about this. However, those that do you know exactly what I am talking about. Yes, the internet has brought some great advantages to the Lifestyle, it is much easier to get information and ask questions (like this site); it has also made it much easier to contact and find others who share similar interest. But it has brought along with it a large group of people who get turned on by saying they are swingers, post profiles, act like they are pursuing things, but never have the intention of it going anywhere. It is a kind of foreplay for them. In addition, the internet has made swing clubs and parties much more in the open, drawing people whose only intent is to attend for some titillation for them. I am sorry but those people are NOT swingers and they are NOT lifestyle people. Those of us in the lifestyle are NOT here to help people like that get excited or get their rocks off, that is NOT what the swing lifestyle is about. Please keep in mind, I am NOT talking about a couple who is trying to ease their way into things and are only interested in starting off with same room sex( meeting another couple, but only playing with your own SO) Lots of couples start off like that. I am talking about people whose only interest is pretend to be a swinger so that they can get some excitement out of watching people have sex or be around the lifestyle. There is a HUGE difference. I hope this clarifies where I was coming from, it was never my intention to cause hard feelings, for that I am sorry. I will be the first to admit that I love a good thought provoking discussion, with a wide variety of opinions. I tend to be passionate about my own opinions, just ask anyone who knows me( especially A and P, Mrs. ménage and The Other Mrs. ménage), however that does not mean that I think others opinions are wrong( well some are… LOL). My attitude is that if we all agreed, we would never learn anything and life would be boring.

Thanks for listening

T – Mr. Ménage

thanks for clarifying your thoughts. i admit that i was probably too reactionary in some of my posts but i have run across many people who have given me and my wife a hard time about what we are doing and how we are doing it. the very first couple we ever talked to about swinging chastised us because we didn't want to play with them on our first meeting. we told them prior to our meeting via email that we prefer not to play on a first date so there's no pressure and so we can determine if there's indeed a chemistry. besides, this would be our first ever experience and we were a little nervous about it and needed to ease it to it. they got mad at us, told us that they had played on their first date and they kept pressuring us after we repeatedly told them that we weren't into it. we immediately stopped contact with them and because of it, i think that we got blacklisted on a few websites because people started blocking us left and right. not a "this couple wants to be hidden from couples" type of block but a "this couple has blocked YOU". so, i may be a little sensitive about it and it left a very bad taste in my mouth.

i apologize for flying off the handle and you're certainly welcome to have your opinions. i've never attended a club so i wasn't aware of the voyeur only phenomenon. perhaps i should have read your post a little closer. one point of advice though, put some paragraph indentations in there so it'll be easier to navigate .

my wife and i have both read over these posts and a lot of people have given us some interesting and helpful insights. we still maintain that there are certain types of situations that we'd prefer and will pursue but we're also thinking of new strategies and ways to relate to other couples. we just want to be comfortable and have a good time. that's all.

have a great weekend everyone.

j

:surrender :surrender :surrender :surrender :surrender

Menage_a_Trois I do not think I could have said it any better, I truley believe everyone starts out wanting to become friends and then finds that the sex is the reason they got into the lifestyle and that the friends can go by the wayside.

It is truley a lot of work to meet a couple that both of you will click with. just think back to your single days and how hard it can be to find a mate, now you have to times that by 2.

Menage, it's an interesting argument you present and a multi-faceted one, and while you make valid points I think you would do well to set aside your own prejudices against newbies and consider that you contradict yourself.

You state that each person must approach and pursue at their own pace and at that which feels comfortable, regardless of what anyone else thinks, yet you make judgments about those who "are just there to watch". How do you know these people are not just moving in their own, comfortable baby steps? Perhaps that is their way of moving into a new sexual way of being. Some people are naturally open with their sexuality, and some people evolve. I don't feel comfortable making judgments about those people who might just need time to adjust and I certainly won't label them as fakes, nor will I make decisions about what is an appropriate period of adjustment or acceptable movement toward having sex with me.

You say there is a growing trend of people at clubs and parties who do not intend to be swingers, but how do you make a determination about their intent? Unless they specifically tell you that, I don't think it's anyone's place to judge. If they do tell you they have no intention of ever doing anything but watching you, and you are not comfortable with that, then don't invite them back to the party, and don't communicate with them in the clubs. What is wrong with live and let live?

From my perspective, sexual growth and openness in any form is something that should be appreciated and encouraged. There is not enough of it in our society, and attacking those people attracted to it for whatever reason is not conducive to a better human experience. I like people for who they are inside, and deeply enjoy making a connection that goes beyond mere physical acts of getting off and moves into the realm of experiencing who they are as a human being, be it for five mintues, five hours, or five years.

I will not judge or condemn anyone who wishes to hang with me because I am a swinger, because I enjoy an open sexual lifestyle, or because they find what I do exciting or interesting. If a person lies, deliberately misleads, or makes a mockery of the lifestyle I have chosen, then shame on them. But if they are seeking a more open, sexual, human experience, then there is room for them in my world in whatever way they are comfortable.

I don't have to fuck you to like you, but I DO have to like you to fuck you.

while i've never been to a club, i have to admit that when my wife and i first started talking about swinging we considered it. we weren't sure we would be into it, didn't know what to expect and even tried to read up on it a little bit. we thought that it might be beneficial for us to go just to see what it was all about (swinging, that is). we weren't sure if we wanted to actually participate but we felt like just being in a sexually charged atmosphere would be a good way to initiate ourselves into taking the plunge. we never went obviously, but had we gone our motivation wouldn't have been to go just for the sake of exploiting other couples or treating them like zoo exhibits.

like the previous poster pointed out, some people need to evolve into being more open sexually and we are counted among those who need a little more time to adjust. we know what we WANT to do and how we WANT things to be but as we all can attest, those things aren't always in sync with what our instincts tell us. for us, there was a step, then evaluation, another step, another evaluation. we've come to many new conclusions along the way but we choose to see our sexual progress/experimentation as a process and a growing experience.

i do sense a certain prejudice against newbies or people that want to take things a little slower and part of me can see why. nobody wants to be jerked around and have their time wasted. some newbies do drag their feet or bring in a lot of drama. i get that. but some of the more experienced swingers need to realize how intimidating it can all be. i mean, we've ALL been there on some level.

i'm not going to go so far as to say that there are no bad apples in a swing club but i do think that a fair share of those voyeur couples probably have the best intentions and are simply curious about what it's all about and trying to come to terms with their own comfort levels. how courteous they are in the moment, i can't say... but they might just be uncomfortable or struggling with their own issues.

dunno, just a thought...

I have to agree with Hotwife and Allways.

lovemonkey#1, there's nothing wrong with being discriminating about who you "swing" with. Personally, Mrs. Pill and I are in exactly the same camp as you - we like having sex with other people but we'd at least like to get to know them and have some form of social intercourse before going further. As our exposure to "the lifestyle" grows, we've found that there are a growing number of others who want the same thing - not just simple fucking and running and not a poly relationship, but somewhere in the middle. For better or worse, "the lifestyle" is changing and I think that's hard for a lot of "veterans" to come to terms with.

We've found that most of the couples who can't wait even one non-play date before taking it further are almost always the ones we DON'T want to be with anyway. We'd rather meet one awesome couple who are recurring and know us initimately, then any number of impersonal "one-night stands". It's not like we HAVE to have sex with everyone we meet; Mrs. Pill and I already have a rocking sex life with just the two of us.

It's sort of like going to the sushi bar. You don't just pick up every little plate that passes by you, snarfing it down without actually tasting it. No, you look and you pick what you like, savoring each bite and enjoying that experience before moving unto the next (or perhaps getting the same dish if it comes back around?).

So, forget what all the self proclaimed swinging gurus have to say about "swinging" just being all about sex. Swinging may be all about sex for them, but it may also be about stimulation, foreplay, and "the thrill of the chase" for others. Relax and take your time. Enjoy your "drought" by focusing your energies elsewhere. It's been my experience that the best things tend to happen when you're not actively looking for them.

The Other Mrs. Menage here……….. (sorry for the long post)

You state that each person must approach and pursue at their own pace and at that which feels comfortable, regardless of what anyone else thinks, yet you make judgments about those who "are just there to watch".

As for making a judgment, we didn’t, we made a conclusion based on fact not assumptions. This conclusion could have only be derived by asking the necessary questions and getting the responses that we have to have been able to make those statements.

How do you know these people are not just moving in their own, comfortable baby steps?

So to simply answer your question, we asked them what they were looking for, interested in, how long they had been doing the lifestyle, etc……………

You say there is a growing trend of people at clubs and parties who do not intend to be swingers, but how do you make a determination about their intent? Unless they specifically tell you that, I don't think it's anyone's place to judge.

Again, we make this determination based on the conclusion after we have talked to them and ASKED them what they are interested in………….and you are right not’s not for anyone else to judge.

If they do tell you they have no intention of ever doing anything but watching you, and you are not comfortable with that, then don't invite them back to the party, and don't communicate with them in the clubs. What is wrong with live and let live?

As for what is wrong with live and let live………absolutely nothing. But like Mr. Menage stated:

My original post was intended to address the title of this thread and the OP's post about what was going on and how to get back into the "game". I was merely pointing why they maybe experiencing a "drought" and why many couples shy away from the "friends first" crowd.

We too are about sexual growth. We don’t want to stymie or hinder anyone’s personal growth especially in the area of sexual growth. Nor are we attacking anyone for their choice in regards to their sexuality, etc. We are merely stating what some of the frustrations are for those of us who are actively involved in the lifestyle and looking for play partners.

So in my opinion it’s like going to a lifestyle event at a gay bar with cross dressers and transvestites’, it all of a sudden becomes the lifestyle with land mines……..so you tread lightly in hopes of not stepping on a land mine.

i do sense a certain prejudice against newbies or people that want to take things a little slower and part of me can see why. nobody wants to be jerked around and have their time wasted. some newbies do drag their feet or bring in a lot of drama. i get that. but some of the more experienced swingers need to realize how intimidating it can all be. i mean, we've ALL been there on some level.

Believe it or not we have mentored several newbie couples and will continue to do so and we DO realize how intimidating it can be. I’ve only been at the 3 ½ years now – not that long ago since my first introduction into the lifestyle. I am a preacher’s daughter and a former church board member for years!!!!!!! Trust me I get the intimidating, scary, nerve-racking, jest of every aspect of the lifestyle. But I also get the frustrations felt by the “VETERANS”. And believe it or not those who started out moving at a turtles pace complaining about the veterans and pushy couples moving at warp speed and are now the ones complaining about the newbie’s and looky-lou’s as I call them. Like everything in life it has a cycle, a beginning and middle and an end.

For better or worse, "the lifestyle" is changing and I think that's hard for a lot of "veterans" to come to terms with.

Perhaps it is and perhaps it’s all a matter of prespective on the lifestyle…………………..

So, forget what all the self proclaimed swinging gurus have to say about "swinging" just being all about sex. Swinging may be all about sex for them, but it may also be about stimulation, foreplay, and "the thrill of the chase" for others. Relax and take your time. Enjoy your "drought" by focusing your energies elsewhere. It's been my experience that the best things tend to happen when you're not actively looking for them.

As for “having” to say it’s just about sex……..well your right because whether or not you want to admit it to yourselves it is. You can dress it up any way you want, call whatever you want, justify it away but the brass tacks of it all when everything is stripped away is it’s just about sex. To what degree or form that takes well that is up to you. And as for the stimulation, foreplay, and "the thrill of the chase" for others, much to your surprise that too is about sex and something us “VETERANS” enjoy and seek out as well.

In the two (2) years that we have been a triad we have had many experiences in the lifestyle. None of which started out looking for friends first (AND I"M NOT SAYING THAT IS WRONG.......) but we have been blessed more than I can count with some of the most incredible friendship along the way. Because yourbitterpill is 100% right on this, the best things do happen when you're not actively looking for them but just allow yourselves to being open to them. Sometimes putting an emphasis on anything other than having fun and enjoying yourself in the lifestyle just leads to more frustrations. So just sit back, buckle up and enjoy the lifestyle ride, whatever path it leads you on.

P - The Other Mrs. Menage

my wife and i have been swinging off and on now for about 2.5 or 3 years. In that time, we've only managed to find three couples that we actually got to play with (all of them through SLS).

...

we're now "single" and wanting to get back into the game but are a little reluctant about how to go about it. from our experience we've learned that we only feel comfortable taking on one or two couples at a given time and that we prefer for our relationships with potential partners to extend beyond the bedroom. we're not looking to become best friends with anyone but we do want to LIKE them.

Hi Lovemonkey,

Many people share your feeling on this. Mr. Tybee and I have to like people and be attracted to their personalities, as well as physically attracted. Do we have fewer encounters because of this? Sure! But, we don't even want the encounters with people we are less attracted to or interested in. We are not missing anything. It's quality, not quantity.

I highly agree with Drew & Pepper's advice for you. You can get to know many personalities and see who you would click with if you get out to the socials, meet and greets, etc. Try the off-premise clubs or events. These are specifically for mingling and getting to know others. You meet a variety of people in a fun setting, talk, dance, flirt, exchange email addresses or phone numbers if you're interested. Meet them again later, if you like. It's kind of like "speed dating". One night at a meet-and-greet is worth more than two or three months poking around through profiles on SLS.

Looking at your signature, you live in or near a big city. There are all sorts of options for you. Get out and mingle.

As for “having” to say it’s just about sex……..well your right because whether or not you want to admit it to yourselves it is. You can dress it up any way you want, call whatever you want, justify it away but the brass tacks of it all when everything is stripped away is it’s just about sex. To what degree or form that takes well that is up to you. And as for the stimulation, foreplay, and "the thrill of the chase" for others, much to your surprise that too is about sex and something us “VETERANS” enjoy and seek out as well.

i both agree and disagree with this statement. i don't think that anyone on this board has illusions about swinging not being primarily about sex. to me, the debate centers more on how different people are defining it and how they want to apply that towards their experience. by using the term "sex" are we talking about just the physical, biological act of intercourse itself or are we talking about the whole sphere of human sexuality? to some, swinging may be a very impersonal and functional affair while others want something more intimate and "meaningful". either way is fine but for those of us who want something more intimate you have to admit that there is a sort of gray area where boundaries can get blurred (sex/friendship, sex/love, etc.). so to say swinging is JUST about sex (whatever your definition) seems to not do some people's experiences or expectations justice. friendship, as i've discovered, is also a very complex issue and whether or not it is a requirement for sex in the swinging world also seems to be in debate.

let's face it, sex is a very complicated subject no matter how you approach it. like politics and religion, it's one of those things that has the power to divide or to bring people together. it's usually an emotionally charged topic and we all respond to that in different ways. i certainly don't think it's something than can just be stripped down to it's basic components.

I highly agree with Drew & Pepper's advice for you. You can get to know many personalities and see who you would click with if you get out to the socials' date=' meet and greets, etc. Try the off-premise clubs or events. These are specifically for mingling and getting to know others. You meet a variety of people in a fun setting, talk, dance, flirt, exchange email addresses or phone numbers if you're interested. Meet them again later, if you like. It's kind of like "speed dating". One night at a meet-and-greet is worth more than two or three months poking around through profiles on SLS.[/quote']

 

we may end up doing this eventually but for now i think we're going to stick to the internet. we both find that we do better in smaller gatherings and have a hard time feeling comfortable in larger, more impersonal settings where we don't know many people (large parties, clubs, etc). maybe we're just freaks

we may end up doing this eventually but for now i think we're going to stick to the internet. we both find that we do better in smaller gatherings and have a hard time feeling comfortable in larger, more impersonal settings where we don't know many people (large parties, clubs, etc). maybe we're just freaks

No, I think there are lots of couples out there like you, and I don't think you're freaks. Not everyone likes the social scene.

My husband and I started a meet-and-greet that met monthly in our town, held at a fairly small club. (We did this via a Yahoo Group.) Most of the first year we did this, there were only about 3-6 couples in attendance on average. (It gradually grew to a point that there were sometimes 12-15 couples.) We'd start early in the evening before the crowd got there and before the music got loud, so we could all talk for a couple of hours before the dancing got started. We were in a regular club and they didn't know we were swingers, so of course we were all discreet. Even though this was a mellow situation and there were NO expectations at all, much to our surprise there would be couples most every month who would sit somewhere in the club, watching us from afar for hours, and never approach to introduce themselves. Even introducing themselves to this little group of a few couples in a normal club seemed like too much for them. How we knew: Later, they'd email us to say they were there, and how afraid they felt to take that step to mingle with a group of swingers, even though they were interested in swinging and had profiles.

How would you two feel about a gathering of a few couples in a "normal" club, just hanging out, talking, and maybe dancing later? I'm just asking out of curiosity.

Whatever your style, I hope you find what you're looking for. You sound like nice people.

by using the term "sex" are we talking about just the physical, biological act of intercourse itself or are we talking about the whole sphere of human sexuality? to some, swinging may be a very impersonal and functional affair while others want something more intimate and "meaningful". either way is fine but for those of us who want something more intimate you have to admit that there is a sort of gray area where boundaries can get blurred (sex/friendship, sex/love, etc.). so to say swinging is JUST about sex (whatever your definition) seems to not do some people's experiences or expectations justice. friendship, as i've discovered, is also a very complex issue and whether or not it is a requirement for sex in the swinging world also seems to be in debate.

This is very interesting, and right up front I have to say that I don't really know the answer of where the average swinger falls in the sphere of human sexuality.

I have made some interesting (to me) observations regarding this swinger friends/sex question though. When ever someone tells me that, "it isn't just about sex" I can't help relating that in five years of actively swinging (we usually attend a club or party 2-4 times a month, and get together with other swingers almost every week) we have made less true friends than you can count on one hand. Almost all of those friendships came quite some time after we had had sex with them.

Additionally, we have observed another interesting phenomena, that is that we have had a lot of play partners tell us that they enjoyed our company so much they considered us friends for life, yet as soon as we tell them we don't want to have sex with them any more, they disappear or tell us to get lost. We just recently had a couple that we had played with, went to swinging and non-swinging social functions with, barbecued at each others house etc., that we thought of as pretty good friends. Over time though, the sexual attraction just wasn't there any more, even though, as friends, we still really enjoyed their company. At some point they asked us pointedly if "we were ever going to play again". When they were told, "probably not" they immediately told us to remove their numbers from our cell phones and blocked us on SLS. Great friends, huh?

So, for the most part, in our experience, swinging really is "just about sex". Once the sex or possibility of sex disappears, any supposed friendship usually goes out the door with it. Which leads me to believe, these so called, "swinger friends" were never very good friends to start with. At first, when we were newbies, this really bothered us. Truth be told, it still kind of sucks when it happens, but we have come to the point were we have accepted it as, "the way it is". We have also come to the conclusion that, for us, actually trying to becomes friends with people we want to have sex with, usually results in more drama than it is worth in the end.

That being said, even as experienced swingers, our emotional involvement with our play partners varies. Sometimes we hardly even know their names. Other times, a deep friendship develops. On very rare occasions, the emotional friendship part even survives after the desire for them as sexual partners passes.

hmmmmm..........

maybe swinger couples relate to other swinger couples much like men relate to other men. in other words, they tend to bond over an activity (i.e., bowling, karaoke, swinging). as long as they have that to share, there will always be a common thread between them. once the activity is taken away, they don't know how to relate to each other anymore and they chose to let the relationship dissolve.

just a thought

We just recently had a couple that we had played with, went to swinging and non-swinging social functions with, barbecued at each others house etc., that we thought of as pretty good friends. Over time though, the sexual attraction just wasn't there any more, even though, as friends, we still really enjoyed their company. At some point they asked us pointedly if "we were ever going to play again". When they were told, "probably not" they immediately told us to remove their numbers from our cell phones and blocked us on SLS. Great friends, huh?

Good times, this is very interesting, and I'm curious. What changed, that caused the loss of attraction? Did they change somehow? Or do you think it was the familiarity?

Good times, this is very interesting, and I'm curious. What changed, that caused the loss of attraction? Did they change somehow? Or do you think it was the familiarity?

Their are actually a lot of reasons, but I think it is mostly what I am in the lifestyle for that causes the loss of attraction. I like the variety of new sex partners, trying new things and experiencing new techniques. Most of the time, after playing with someone multiple times, the newness eventually wears off and I lose interest. The fact is, regular sex is best with Mrs. GT, so I am not looking for someone regular on the side, so to speak. I think a lot of it has to do with the fantasy aspect of someone new too. What I mean by that is that at first, when the other person is fairly unknown to me, the exploration is exciting and stimulating. After you get to know the person better and they become more of a buddy they lose their appeal as a sex partner, for me at least. Then also, as one becomes better friends with someone, and gets to know their personality better, their are always areas where you don't see eye to eye, or don't mesh well, that too makes them less appealing to me sexually. At the same time, those differences of opinion or philosophy makes them valuable as a friend, when you are looking for an alternative viewpoint or an intelligent conversation.

That is why I have often said, the more we become friends with someone, the less we have sex, and we rarely have sex with the long term friends we have made in the lifestyle.

So no, I don't think anyone changed, I think it was more the familiarity, we just got to know each other better, and in doing so their appeal to us sexually waned.

It is actually funny when we look back to when we started swinging. We thought we would find a few couples, and then play with them occasionally over a period of years. What actually seems to happen, is that we either meet someone and play with them once and never again, or we meet someone and have so much fun that it is like getting a new toy. So we play like crazy for a few months until, slowly, we get burned out with them. Then one day, we just realize that while we still like them as friends, we just aren't interested in them sexually any more.

I don't know if other experienced swingers lose interest for the same reasons we do, but when we have talked to others about their experiences, we have noticed that in most cases their experience is similar to ours, the sex usually disappears from the relationship as they become better friends with someone.

Another interesting thing we noticed when it happened to us, is that the few people that this has happened with that are still good friends were experienced swingers when we met. On the other hand, on a couple of other occasions when it has happened, it was with people fairly new to the lifestyle, who seemed to take it very personally when we decided we didn't want to play any more, and usually never talked to us again. The only conclusion I can draw form our limited experiences with it, is that once one becomes experienced in the lifestyle, our expectations seem to change, and we realize we aren't going to be hot for that new person we meet forever.

hmmmmm..........

 

maybe swinger couples relate to other swinger couples much like men relate to other men. in other words, they tend to bond over an activity (i.e., bowling, karaoke, swinging). as long as they have that to share, there will always be a common thread between them. once the activity is taken away, they don't know how to relate to each other anymore and they chose to let the relationship dissolve.

 

just a thought

This is pretty much our experience but in a lot of ways I don't think swinging ALONE is enough to even call them 'friends'. We have only made one long term friendship in swinging, despite really desiring more, and that was because the husband and myself shared a hobby that we did together for quite a long time, and still do (though less).

They became, family BBQ and babysit your kids type of friends, but every other couple which seemed very compatible on paper were only 'friends' for a short period of time.

Their are actually a lot of reasons, but I think it is mostly what I am in the lifestyle for that causes the loss of attraction. I like the variety of new sex partners, trying new things and experiencing new techniques. Most of the time, after playing with someone multiple times, the newness eventually wears off and I lose interest. The fact is, regular sex is best with Mrs. GT, so I am not looking for someone regular on the side, so to speak. I think a lot of it has to do with the fantasy aspect of someone new too. What I mean by that is that at first, when the other person is fairly unknown to me, the exploration is exciting and stimulating. After you get to know the person better and they become more of a buddy they lose their appeal as a sex partner, for me at least. Then also, as one becomes better friends with someone, and gets to know their personality better, their are always areas where you don't see eye to eye, or don't mesh well, that too makes them less appealing to me sexually.

This is very interesting to me. I sense that it works this way for me, too. It's interesting that the very things that connect us even more to our spouses (becoming best friends, confidants, becoming very familiar), are the same things that eventually turn us off to the playmates. With a spouse, even the areas we don't see eye-to-eye aren't negatives (for me, at least). If we were too much alike as spouses, it would be boring. With a spouse, the sex gets better and better with time, and nobody knows how to turn us on the way our spouse does. It's as if the swinging friend dynamic works in an opposite way from the spouse dynamic.

I think that for me, it's because there's only room in my heart for one partner who is that close, that permanent. I think it's because I'm a monogamist with my heart and mind. I'm only a non-monogamist with my body.

It is actually funny when we look back to when we started swinging. We thought we would find a few couples, and then play with them occasionally over a period of years.

We thought the same thing. In fact, we're still kind of hoping for that to happen eventually.