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TeamSoBe

Ecstasy and swinging?

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I'm curious to see what people's opinions here are on ecstasy use. I see that a lot of people are very particular about their swinging partners being completely drug free, including even pot. They don't mind getting hammered silly drunk in order to get into the mood though.

 

Other people just avoid people that do harder drugs or anything that involves needles. I know for certain that there are a lot of rollers out there that are discovering swinging because of situations that ecstasy originally led them into.

 

I understand that a lot of people are simply opposed to drugs of any kind and as long as that works for them that's fine with me. Still, I'm having trouble figuring out how all of swinging culture can universally say 'no way' about such a popular drug that just naturally leads 'normal' people into having swinging experiences. I made this a poll so that people can vote without leaving a record of exactly who they are.

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I personally think that our nation is screwed up with it's drug enforcement laws. So many people are incarcerated for non-violent crimes just because they seek to have a chemical or herb to stimulate feeling good. Alcohol is far worse than pot IMHO but the cops take a person to jail for having a joint then go home and have a beer. Also, personally I do not indulge in alcohol, pot, or any other drug except caffeine.

 

I have been involved in the lifestyle for around 20 years and pot has always been a big issue for clubs. They prohibit it or any other drug. Our lifestyle is already on the fringe of what our society considers legal in such matters as pay for sex at clubs, alcohol being served, boobies on display without a booby display license etc.

 

Why associate us with a drug like ecstasy? It is a schedule 1 narcotic (if I remember right), right up there with crack cocaine, meaning it is a felony to posses, it has no medicinal value and your ass is grass if you get caught with it.

 

I have also done a bit of research on the effects of the drug and it is no mild mood elevator. The shit kills people every day. Just do a search on your computer and you may have some eye opening news waiting for you on the adverse medical effects of ecstasy.

 

I never judge people for there indulgence in alcohol, pot, heroin, ecstasy or any other drug but I do get concerned when I see this society (meaning the swinging society), being associated with involvement with illegal activity of any sort. It just plain ain't a good subject in my humble opinion. John.

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Ecstasy is a horrible drug. It can kill you. I had smoked pot on occasion but don't make it a regular habit. I drink but don't drive. I have had friends in the past that got really messed up on drugs. The biggie was crank. I value my wife, life, family, friends, job and health. Drugs take those things away from people and they don't even realize it because of the cloud they live in. I have seen it too much. An orgasm is better than any high I know.

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I'm not encouraging drug use, I was just curious. I am starting to realize that the classic 'swinger' culture is a lot more conservative than I ever realized. The ecstasy thing is just one more thing that makes me realize how conservative most swingers are. My impression of the swinger set was always that swingers are an extreme sort that love to party and who have hedonistic tendencies across the board. That doesn't really seem to be true.

 

Ecstasy has become an extremely mainstream thing in many social circles, just like cocaine in the 80's and acid & pot before that. Swingers' attitudes toward it seem to be a lot more in line with conservative American thinking than with the party set.

 

My first clue about the conservative nature of the swinger community was when I realized that most swingers think that it's great for every woman to be bisexual but male bisexuality seems to still be completely taboo. I was honestly shocked to discover such conservative thinking on sexuality among a group of people that pride themselves on their sexually-liberated attitudes.

 

Judging from the parties in my area, I'm assuming that there are many different swinger subcultures, based on the social cultural identities that people have outside of swinging circles. In my area there are a lot of young dance club raver types in the swinger community, and naturally a good deal of ecstasy use. I was just curious what the reaction would be outside of that subculture.

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Okay all, I am going on my soapbox again. This topic and it's responses had me up half the night.

 

On April 22nd of this year my brother passed away. Not a direct result of his 24 year military career, although I believe that it contributed to it as he got all of the drugs that killed him while overseas where they are readily available on the street or in stores to any passerby. No prescription needed.

 

The autopsy report from the coroner stated that he died of heart failure. (If you have ever been military, this is a keep it clean sorta thing..no blemishes).

 

He was only home on military leave to bury his first born grandchild. Within 24 hours he was dead.

 

I don't understand people that feel the need to use drugs to enhance their lives or dull their pain emotionally.

 

I am by no means a saint, I dabbled with pot a couple of times years ago...but couldn't stand the stuff...the smell alone was enough to make me cringe...still is. I smoke, another drug in itself, but I go outside to do it and do not expose others to it. When I drink, I don't drive...simple as that.

 

What I do feel tho is that if anyone feels the need to "use" a drug of any kind in order to gain the courage to face "ANY" situation in their lives, something is VERY VERY WRONG!

 

Our country lost a very well respected, honored and talented fighter pilot due to the usage of some easily attainable drugs.

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I'm sorry to hear about your brother, Ohio. I've actually had a few friends pass on or nearly pass on because of drug problems. That's exactly why I say that I'm not trying to endorse drug use and I'm not trying to convince anybody to do anything that they don't already do.

 

Lumping all drugs together isn't very productive though. Speedballs of smack and coke will stop your heart like a switch. GHB can drop you on the ground and paralyze your diaphragm so that you suffocate. Some drugs have much more acceptable risk levels though, and for a lot of people ecstasy is in that category.

 

Ecstasy can be very dangerous but the biggest dangers are social, not medical. Ecstasy makes you extremely open-minded and loving and accepting, and it can make you drop your guard around strangers when you shouldn't and it can make you make overly optimistic character judgements about people that you have just met. From somebody that's both medically trained and a party animal, I can tell you that those are the biggest dangers with ecstasy. The danger of spontaneously dropping dead while rolling is up there with the risk of accidentally electrocuting yourself with a household appliance while stoned. Certainly possible, doesn't happen often enough to matter to anybody. The social dangers from making extremely poor character judgements are the sort of thing that swinging rollers should be educated about, rather than standard canned anti-drug propaganda.

 

The thing that still amazes me though, is that alcohol is easily the most dangerous drug out there but swingers love it. It kills orders of magnitude more people on a daily basis than any illegal drug. It ruins peoples' lives. It also causes people to make very poor social decisions. It causes memory loss, liver damage, and all kinds of other long and short term health problems, and it's highly addictive. Regardless of all of that, swinging culture seems to fully embrace booze. Booze for recreation, booze to loosen up, booze to destroy inhibitions, booze as a way to rationalize the crazy group sex, keep the booze flowing. It's a bizarre double-standard that just doesn't make much sense to me. It's okay to be sloppy drunk, but one hit on a joint or one happy pill is completely taboo.

 

Swingers draw the line based on what's legal and what isn't, which is kind of ironic since swinging itself is illegal as adultery in many places. Alcohol and Viagra are perfectly acceptable in swinger circles because they are legal. Pot and ecstasy are not because they are illegal. This is very conservative thinking, right up there with "No bi men need apply, we don't like queers." It's that conservative outlook that really surprises me.

 

My mental metaphor for swingers used to be an image of a bunch of crazy rebel hedonistic party animals at a Bacchanalian toga party. Since becoming more involved my mental image is shifting closer to maybe a republican campaign fund-raiser where all of the boozed-up loyal supporters are wearing sexy lingerie under their clothes and waiting until they are hammered enough to get naked.

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Originally posted by TeamSoBe:

Since becoming more involved my mental image is shifting closer to maybe a republican campaign fund-raiser where all of the boozed-up loyal supporters are wearing sexy lingerie under their clothes and waiting until they are hammered enough to get naked.

Actually while most swinging parties have booze available drunkenness is not well tolerated. I can only compare any social setting to it. Even democrats (or other categories of liberals), embrace a low tolerance toward inebriation. Your presumptions and perceptions seem to be very limited in focus.

 

Have you ever considered that there are both conservative and liberal swingers? Conservatives are not a bunch of drunks as you seem to imply. You seem to be the one lumping all sorts of groups of people together, whether it be sexual, political, or other types of orientation.

 

I guess the best way to get you to grasp the concept is this. Swingers are a cross-section of our general population. I hope this clears it up for ya.

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Ohio Couple,

 

I extend my deepest condolences toward you in this time of grief. I also commend you for the courage you demonstrate by speaking about this deeply personal subject. In some way a huge loss may result in saving someone else by doing this.

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Oh I'm not knocking on anybody, I'm just surprised. I just never realized that swinging culture would be so conservative.

 

I have definitely not seen much evidence of swingers frowning on binge drinking though. I really sort of get the impression that without alcohol there would be no such thing as swinging in the first place. Maybe we're just meeting the wrong people.

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TeamSoBe,

 

To categorize swingers as hedonistic party animals doesn't make sense in my opinion.

 

Swingers are your average everyday people from all walks of life. We walk, talk, and think just like the non-swingers do, the only difference is that we indulge in sharing sexual experiences with others who are not your chosen mate. This doesn't take away from the fact that we have morals and beliefs and our own ideals that we live by daily.

 

That said, I do understand the point of the double standard, as much as I do not care to be around those that have smoked pot, I am sure the same people who do not smoke feel that way about me. But to counter that.... And I speak only for the United States, you must be of a "legal" age to purchase or consume either alcohol or nicotine. Those guidelines are set with the assumption that you are mature enough to use them responsibly. I have read Marijuana has been proven in test studies that it eases the pain of cancer patients...so I do question the fact that it has not been made legal.

 

Granted some people use alcohol or nicotine to reduce/relieve or loosen up pain or tension, but they are legal and you are expected to use them responsibly. Ecstasy on the other hand offers no beneficial medicinal benefits. Chances are that someone who has taken the drug will probably toss back a few vodka and tonics, maybe even follow it with a few shots of tequila to top it off. They have now lost all of their inhibitions. And lets say perhaps they have high blood pressure for which they are on medication for, and last week they had a kidney infection or something and are on antibiotics and they smoke. Now 5 drugs are introduced into their system. All of this within a relatively short period of time. It is just a breeding ground for disaster.

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Perhaps, (and this does not involve my brother's case), if people feel the need to utilize a drug in order to swing they aren't ready to.

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Now as to this topic. L and I are very picky about the people we play with, alcohol in moderation is fine, meaning one or two. Drugs of any type are out, not because we shun people that do them, but as parents we both believe in setting a good example for our kids. Yes we have discussed Viagra (sounds like fun) but until it is actually needed if ever ;-) it is a no for us also. We have turned down couples for the very reason that one or both of them were drunk or close to it.

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I don't claim to know a lot about the drug ecstasy but what I do know is that it has claimed the lives of several young children (teenagers) where I live and is very popular in their social circles. They also choose to mix alcohol with their usage and who knows what else. Whether it was a combination or the fact of one or the other took their lives is not at question. The plain and simple fact is that "Dead is Dead", there is no reversal. The loss of their lives should prove as a "Wake Up Call" to those that choose to indulge in these sort of activities.

 

A special note to MichiganCouple, I feel as tho I slighted you somewhat. I hope you received my PM. Your insight on this post was definitely an eye opener for me. If posting this saves just one life...I will die a happy woman.

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Ecstacy's largest danger is medical, aside from the social danger. That stuff will literally burn a hole in your brain - and that won't come back.

 

We insist on totally drug free partners simply because of the risks and dangers due to contact with drug abusers; personal hygiene tends to go down the toilet, so to speak, along with all the other baggage psychologically that comes along with it. We have enough of our own baggage and every day problems that we do not need to encumber ourselves with anyone else's.

 

Additionally, we are looking to form relationships with other couples that may include "benefits" but that is not required. With small children in the house, drug abuse is not an example we wish them to see or to follow.

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Originally posted by sexypairca:

Ecstacy's largest danger is medical, aside from the social danger. That stuff will literally burn a hole in your brain - and that won't come back.

 

We insist on totally drug free partners simply because of the risks and dangers due to contact with drug abusers; personal hygiene tends to go down the toilet, so to speak, along with all the other baggage psychologically that comes along with it. We have enough of our own baggage and every day problems that we do not need to encumber ourselves with anyone else's.

 

Additionally, we are looking to form relationships with other couples that may include "benefits" but that is not required. With small children in the house, drug abuse is not an example we wish them to see or to follow.

 

sexypairca,

 

How do you determine that someone is "drug free"? In my 42 years I have seen several people that I believed to be perfectly fine and then check themselves into a rehab center. These folks were active in their children's lives, their own marriage and their community. They went to work everyday and were productive. No outward signs of drug/alcohol abuse. The media/TV has given us the impression that those who "have a problem" are going to have "little track marks up their arms, sunken eyes and a gross deterioration (sp) of weight."

 

To believe that you can, by simply viewing or getting to know someone and feel that you can determine they are "drug free" is no guarantee. The same holds true for those that say a priority is for whom ever they meet must be disease free. At best, you can only ever be relatively sure.

 

I am not trying to discourage the lifestyle, but facts are facts and reality is reality. There are no guarantees in this life or lifestyle. When you make the decision to swing, you also make the decision to accept whatever consequences it may deliver to you. Certainly by taking every precaution that you can will reduce the risk of contracting a disease or becoming involved with someone who is a drug addict, but it doesn't guarantee it.

 

I am by no means trying to be critical of your post, it is just that you never have a guarantee of anything in life. Being as cautious as you can, as we are, merely reduces the risk.

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I have avoided this particular topic for no specific reason, well maybe that's a lie. My daughter had a very close friend of hers die from Ecstasy and this was a girl with a bright future, A&B student, active in the community and school. I had known this girl almost her entire life as had my daughter and my heart breaks when I think of her not being around to live out a full life.

 

Anyhow, TeamSoBe, I've been to several swinger functions in Southern Florida and yes, there is quite a bit more use of illegal drugs down there then there are here in Ohio. At least, that's what I noticed. Tho, from what I have seen while in the Ft Lauderdale/Miami area and swinging, it's the younger (30 and below) age group that partake in this. I'm sure there are swingers in Ohio that use or have used ecstasy, just that it's not done as openly as what I've seen down in Southern Florida. As for myself, while I may very infrequently use some marijuana (about 2 times a year) and I may drink some alcohol (one cocktail is generally my limit, if I indulge at all), I don't feel the need to get any high in order to enjoy myself sexually with whomever. I would question, however, someone who does feel that they have to be high or drunk to do so.

 

What I find interesting is your notion of what you think swingers are, how you've stereotyped. But like John (I think it was John of MichiganCouple, if not my apologies to whomever posted it) said, swingers come from every walk of life and just because we may be very liberal in our beliefs about sex, doesn't mean that we also are equally liberal in every other aspect of our lives. While our personal view on politics may be different, I have yet to find any swinger who didn't place their family first and foremost above everything, just like non-swingers do. And no, we're not all raising little swingers-to-be. We do have morals and principles just like everyone else. We aren't totally devoid of these qualities just because our views on our sexuality and sex are different than say the normal Joe Blow's. I hope your ideas of what swingers actually are is changing to be more along the lines of what is the truth. It's the stereotyping of swingers that really, really encourage the prejudice swingers face and in many instances these stereotypes are the farthest thing from what actually is. :(

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Ohiocouple,

 

While you are right that you can never be 100% sure, we are SO against drug use that I don't particularly care if someone thinks I'm offensive, or even if I'm wrong (think person uses drugs but don't). I am not politically correct, and will not change. Even the hint of drugs is enough for me - they don't play with us. It's that simple, and if they don't like it, that's not my problem.

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Originally posted by sexypairca:

Ohiocouple,

 

While you are right that you can never be 100% sure, we are SO against drug use that I don't particularly care if someone thinks I'm offensive, or even if I'm wrong (think person uses drugs but don't). I am not politically correct, and will not change. Even the hint of drugs is enough for me - they don't play with us. It's that simple, and if they don't like it, that's not my problem.

I agree, If I sounded harsh, I apologize. It is just that there are no guaranties in life. I agree, even the hint of drug or alcohol abuse is more that enough for us also. It says to us a "BIG NO NO"!

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I was wondering how many couple's actually use ecstasy in swinging? I read a article saying ecstasy is moving its way into swinging. They present it as if there are a lot of swingers doing it. :rolleyes:

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What is it like? I have heard a lot about this but never experienced it.

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Because of the fact that swinging is frowned upon by our larger society, swing clubs and parties are always in danger of harassment by John Law. That being the case, swing groups usually go out of their way to remain drug-free. Any signs of illegal drug use, or even talking about it, is grounds for immediate expulsion at most places. Sure, there are folks in the lifestyle who engage in almost anything you can name - same as folks not in the lifestyle. So I'm sure there is Ecstasy use out there, but I doubt it is widespread, or will become so. Maybe for some of the same reasons STDs are not common among swingers.

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E does carry the unfortunate side effect of making it much more difficult for a guy to get an erection. Given the problems that many men seem to encounter with performance anxiety already, that alone might be a pretty strong deterrent.

 

Also, it's a pretty powerful drug. Most likely, you won't be that interested in having sex while using it. You'll probably end up spending the entire night mesmerised by the sensation of stroking your own hand without even getting to the idea of having sex. :rolleyes:

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With the heightened scrutiny that swingers events and clubs draw, drugs are avoided at all times. Whomever is stating that Extacy useage is creeping in to swinging is full of crap.

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My feelings about drug use? We don't - and if folks are bringing or using drugs at my club - and thus threatening the club that I frequent - and potentially forcing me to drive to Cleveland every weekend - well, it pisses me off.

 

And if you need a drug to enjoy sex (Viagra and such excluded) that's pathetic.

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Well when I read this article I found it hard to believe. They made it like swing clubs are raves or something. I have never really heard it talked about. They always try to make swinging look like some kind of dark lifestyle. You would think they would get over it by now.

 

We have used ecstasy ourselves and would never recommend anyone using any drugs at all. I believe each to his or her own. Don't come down on spoomonkey because he was honest with everyone here. I understand how drugs being involved in swinging gives swinging a bad name. There are a lot of misconceptions on drugs out there. There is a website called https://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/ It separates fact from fiction as far a drugs go. I don't and would never recommend ecstasy to anyone because you can die! Bottom line. But each to their own. We have used it and had great times, just never in swinging. Everyone has to make choices in life. Just like swinging.

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