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Newpants

Would you rather be thought of as a cheater, or known as a swinger?

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A little while back we went out with a few other couples to a vanilla club and things got a little loose and there was some making out and groping between the couples. We all got a grip on ourselves and nothing too out of control happened and nothing ever came of it.

 

On the way home my wife and I were talking about what had happened and what some of the ramifications could be if someone we knew had been at the bar and saw one of us making out with someone not our spouse.

 

The question we posed to each other was if only one of us got caught making out, would we rather that person thought I/she was an adulterer or would we rather fess up that we are swingers and it was OK.

 

A big part of me would rather stick hot knitting needles in my eyes that be thought of as a cheater but the more I think about the more I am not so sure. A few recent threads have got me thinking about that again. In many ways it seems that cheating and adultry are more condoned and accepted than swinging. I would still rather be known as a swinger than thought of as a cheater but I bet there are some that would think otherwise.

 

(I need to add, we are not "out" with our friends, neighbors, coworkers and family etc and never will be)

 

What are your thoughts? If you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar, would you rather wrongly be thought of as a cheater or would you rather fess up and be known as a swinger?

 

And also, do you think most of the people that you ACTUALLY KNOW PERSONALLY would be more accepting of you knowing that you are a swinger or thinking that you are a cheater?

 

What are your thoughts and why?

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Tough question.

 

If I were caught I would rather be know as a cheater, rather than my wife be know as a swinger. It would be really tough on her if her family found out she was a swinger. If I were labeled as a cheater then it would not be as rough on her. But knowing her, she wouldn't let me do that.

 

If she were caught, I am not sure. Frankly it would be which ever was easiest for her to deal with.

 

All that said, we are becoming more and more comfortable as swingers and there are only a handful of people whose opinion on that would matter to me. I think it might be easier for my family (i.e. kids) and my business if labeled a cheater. NO one seems to care about that. How others see me personally, I don't care so much. How other see/treat my family or how it would impact them financially is what would be the deciding factor. So I would guess I would take the cheater tag since swinger tag would have a negative impact on them more so than if I was labeled a cheater.

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If I was known to be a swinger, I would be fired. No question about it. On the other hand, there are many known cheaters in my profession and they don't get fired. Easy choice for me.

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I would have to say that I would rather be outed as swinger than be known as a cheater. At least as a swinger, the outsider would know that your better half knows about what is going on. But if you were known as a cheater, they would automatically assume that you were doing something underhanded and that your other half is not aware of your activities.

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In my world, being a cheater would be a lot easier to deal with. Not that it is right, but that is how it is. The rumor mill would continue to ramp up, but if known as a swinger, it would ramp up into overdrive and then who knows the stories that would be made up.

 

We're not swinging (looked into it, she's not comfortable with it) and we're not cheaters, but even a simple conversation can get me (usually) in trouble. Not with my wife, but with others. I tell her about every conversation, every day sail, etc. It sometimes gets to the point where I don't even want to go to the YC to talk to friends.

 

Had a friend who came to the YC when we had a band playing. I was joking with her and another friend. At one point, she was trying to tell me something, but I couldn't understand it. I put my arm around her waist and leaned in so she could talk into my ear. Two days later, my wife gets a call from someone in the YC telling her I am getting too "close" to my friend (who I've known for five years.

 

The other day I was told I was "dating" someone I haven't seen for months and when I did see her it was at the YC and it was, "Hi, haven't seen you for quite a while. How have you been?"

 

So what do you think would happen if we were swinging?

 

It is a bit of a rant, but I hope you get my drift.

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I personally would prefer the truth and be known as a swinger. I'm not the least bit ashamed of anything I've done. My hubby, on the other hand, could have issues at work if the truth got out. He'd actually (sadly) be better off being thought of as a cheater.

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Wow. Talk about irony. The whole basis of Swinging is honesty. Now the question is, does that basis carry over to vanilla friends? I guess it would depend on who saw us. For the most part I am a "Here it is, so deal with it." kind of a person so I would probably tell the truth.

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If I was known to be a swinger, I would be fired. No question about it. On the other hand, there are many known cheaters in my profession and they don't get fired. Easy choice for me.

 

Jesus, what kind of job do you have?! Sucks to be you.

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Thanks for your comments and feedback. I was suspecting that some of the answers would point to rather being thought of as a cheater when you really aren't, but that just seems so wrong on so many levels:(

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When it comes to protecting my children, wrong gets a bit more relative.

 

If I would jump in front of a moving car to push them out of the way, knowing I would be hit, in order to protect them, why wouldn't I take the heat for being known as something I am not, rather than them take the heat for being known as something I am.

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Coupleerotic22 said:
When it comes to protecting my children, wrong gets a bit more relative.

 

If I would jump in front of a moving car to push them out of the way, knowing I would be hit, in order to protect them, why wouldn't I take the heat for being known as something I am not, rather than them take the heat for being known as something I am.

 

Oh I get it. I understand where people are coming from and I am not bashing anyone or their answers.

 

I just think it is sad in that IMHO adultery is wrong and destructive and causes pain and turmoil to everyone involved, but society has such a negative view of swinging (which IMHO is usually beneficial if done the right way for the right reasons) that people would rather be thought of as cheaters than known to be swingers.

 

I understand it. I just think it is warped and sad that it is the way it is :(

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Newpants said:

I understand it. I just think it is warped and sad that it is the way it is :(

 

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

Isn't bizarre that swingers have disdain for cheaters because they are breaking their trust with their spouse, but the vanilla world looks at swinging with greater disdain than they do cheaters, because...., well, it's not because we are breaking out trust now is it. It is truly a strange paradox.

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It's almost like opening pandora's box. LOL

 

Dave and I were just talking about this. It would be so much easier to be known as a cheater than a swinger, because of course, in the unknowing world, swinging is linked to pedophilia, immoral behavior, sexual deviants, etc.... I would probably be fired as well under some moral clause that my companies lawyers would make up. Dave would probably be fired as well.

 

If I didn't need my job so badly, I'd shout it from the rooftops that I'm a swinger and I love it!!

 

Adulterers are so much more favorably looked upon than swingers just for the basic reason that most of the population has no freaking clue what swinging entails. When I worked in other depts, I worked with many cheaters. I'm sure Dave has too. Their cheating was looked upon as just being a "bad boy".

 

Personally, I abhor cheaters and so does Dave. It's more like you're a fucking scumbag with us.

 

Sad, huh???

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That is an interesting question. I think that it would definitely depend on the person and the circumstances.

 

I think it's absolutely ridiculous that anything outside of the norm sexually is considered to be an automatic slippery slope to pedophilia. The moral judgment police surely have done a number on the population when two people who love each other and choose to have sex with others are more abhorrent than people who sneak around.

 

I think there was another thread in the open marriage subforum about a man looking to go out for a one night stand, and the general consensus was that if he wore his wedding band then he'd probably have a better chance of getting lucky than without. Weird.

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It would be so much easier to be known as a cheater than a swinger, because of course, in the unknowing world, swinging is linked to pedophilia, immoral behavior, sexual deviants, etc....

 

That and the fact that so many vanillas cheat, I have read it is in the area of 1 in 4. Moral relativism run a muck.

 

When the subject of infidelity comes up, be it in entertainment or real life, the Mrs. and I just look at each other and grin. We both know that the other is thinking, how much better we have it. Not only do we love each other but we get to have fun on the side, with the others blessing and encouragement. None of the issues cheaters have about secrets, lies and destructive behavior.

 

I am hesitant to compare swingers and cheaters, because the mind set and, frankly, morality is so different. But it is a wonder that there are not more swingers. There would be if they would stop and think about it. Can you imagine if even half of those that cheat, had a talk with their spouses before wrecking their relationship and took up swinging instead? We would have a much larger community to play with!! And the divorcee rate would be much lower.

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Coupleerotic22 said:
I am hesitant to compare swingers and cheaters, because the mind set and, frankly, morality is so different. But it is a wonder that there are not more swingers. There would be if they would stop and think about it. Can you imagine if even half of those that cheat, had a talk with their spouses before wrecking their relationship and took up swinging instead? We would have a much larger community to play with!! And the divorcee rate would be much lower.

 

I have to disagree on this one. While yes, it would be nice if more people consulted their spouses versus cheating, what about those that have no interest in the lifestyle? Many are tied to religious beliefs that tell them they must remain monogamous, and there are those out there who simply do not have the libido for it. Or what of those who are extremely modest and cannot bear the thought of anyone seeing them naked?

 

While swinging becoming more acceptable to society would make our lives a great deal easier, I think for some of us, part of the thrill is in the taboo nature of it. Many of the posters on this thread seemed to feel the same.

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sweet_tna said:
what about those that have no interest in the lifestyle? Many are tied to religious beliefs that tell them they must remain monogamous, and there are those out there who simply do not have the libido for it. Or what of those who are extremely modest and cannot bear the thought of anyone seeing them naked?

 

That's cool, I like disagreements, how boring would it be if we all agreed on everything. :)

 

But, based on conversations I have had and others I have been told about, it seems many more people would like to try out the lifestyle, but are afraid to bring it up to their spouse or concerned about what a third party would think. I know we went a long time thinking the other would never go for it, and to both of our surprise, we were wrong.

 

As far as religious beliefs and modesty, I think some people within the lifestyle deal with those as well. Society seems to be both less modest and religious everyday.

 

As for libido, maybe you are right, but one does not have to party every weekend in the LS. Pacing might work for some.

 

 

sweet_tna said:

While swinging becoming more acceptable to society would make our lives a great deal easier, I think for some of us, part of the thrill is in the taboo nature of it. Many of the posters on this thread seemed to feel the same.

 

My point wasn't really about being widely accepted. It was more about the fact that I believe if some cheaters (those looking for sexual excitement, variety etc.) had gone to their spouse first (and had some patience) then some percentage might not have become cheaters but swingers instead. That said, there are as many reasons people cheat as there are reasons that people swing, maybe more. And many, if not most, would likely never agree with swinging. So it certainly would not be universal.

 

I guess I have never been into the taboo thing, I like swinging because it is fun. It looks like the thread is pretty evenly split 7 said it would detract, 5 said it wouldn't and 3 said it would be better if it was accepted. And even those that said it would detract, the universal thought was it would only detract a little, and I saw no one that said they would get out. I think it would be great if it were considered acceptable, it would make our lives much simpler and I am all for simpler.

 

I also believe if swinging were widely accepted, more would take part, but not most. Take pot for example, if marijuana were legalized it tomorrow I still wouldn't smoke it, it is just not my thing. I have plenty of friends that do and if it were accepted I don't think they would change other than maybe being more open about it.

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Coupleerotic22 said:
That's cool, I like disagreements, how boring would it be if we all agreed on everything. :)

 

Amen!

 

Quote
But, based on conversations I have had and others I have been told about, it seems many more people would like to try out the lifestyle, but are afraid to bring it up to their spouse or concerned about what a third party would think. I know we went a long time thinking the other would never go for it, and to both of our surprise, we were wrong.

 

Yes, that does seem to be an obstacle for many. But until it is overcome, they won't make it in the lifestyle, anyway. (That ole' Communication Rag)

 

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As far as religious beliefs and modesty, I think some people within the lifestyle deal with those as well. Society seems to be both less modest and religious everyday.

 

Agreed.

 

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As for libido, maybe you are right, but one does not have to party every weekend in the LS. Pacing might work for some.

 

I actually blogged about pacing very recently, so I can agree with you to a point. BUT I still think that for a couple to be happy in the lifestyle, you have to have a healthy libido and be very interested in sex. There are those that simply aren't. The reasons for that would be a whole 'nother thread. Still . . .

 

 

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My point wasn't really about being widely accepted. It was more about the fact that I believe if some cheaters (those looking for sexual excitement, variety etc.) had gone to their spouse first (and had some patience) then some percentage might not have become cheaters but swingers instead.

 

Perhaps, but I'm inclined to think that the percentage would be smaller than you are imagining. There are those that cheat because they are unsatisfied sexually. The cheat to "fix what's broken," and we all know that swinging does NOT do that. Others cheat because they fell in love with the person with whom they're cheating. Again, this will not be resolved through swinging. And some cheat because they can. They like the thrill of the forbidden, the sneaking around. In this case, bringing that desire to their spouse could possibly result in a healthy swinging relationship, but that assumes that the would-be cheater feels comfortable enough to talk to their spouse and/or gets a positive response. Judging from some of the posts on the board I've seen over the past couple of years, I'd venture to say it's likely to result in that person cheating anyway.

 

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I also believe if swinging were widely accepted, more would take part, but not most. Take pot for example, if marijuana were legalized it tomorrow I still wouldn't smoke it, it is just not my thing. I have plenty of friends that do and if it were accepted I don't think they would change other than maybe being more open about it.

 

You may be right, but unless a whole lotta' changes come 'round, we're not likely to know for sure.

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Who cares what others think? Is it anybody's business if we swing or if one or the other of us cheat? Fact is, we're swingers but what happens within our relationship or with our friends and playmates are no ones concern but ours. Leave 'em guessing!

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I have friends who cheat often on their spouses. I sometimes question being friends with them because of their indiscretions.

 

That being said, the topic of cheating vs swinging has came up on a few occasions and I always get the same answer from them. Swinging is wrong and yet those same individuals would be devastated if they were caught.

 

Two of the (friends) have been caught and it almost ruined their marriages and all of our other friends talk behind their backs, exclaiming how terrrible it was that one or the other has cheated. Our conversations, parties and get-togethers always hint of sexual activity, but their own personal morality police step in to stop it before it gets to open.

 

My wife and I are up front with each other and enjoy the lifestyle, unfortunately we have to keep it seperate because of long held stereotypes. Funny thing is, our marriage is stronger and has lasted longer than any of our vanilla friends.

 

So because of the mindset of most in our community, I guess we are generally thought of as cheaters, but for us and our lifestyle friends, we are a very happy and loving couple.

 

And we can live with that...

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I guess I'm fortunate in that my job wouldn't be adversely effected by the "outing" of my swinging activities. Nor would most of my "vanilla" friends be too shocked by the publicizing of my activities (as most of my friends have met me through my time at the RenFaire - where alternative-lifestyles are fairly commonplace)

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We are swingers and are proud of it. If we were ever questioned and only if questioned, I don't think either of us would have a problem answering. We are both open minded and don't care what the rest of the world think about swingers. Everyone fears what they don't understand. It's a normal human emotion, but on our opinion, until a person has had some experience in the swinging world, they should not have anything negative or positive to say about something they don't have a clue about.

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We have discussed this with each other. If this aspect of our private lives were to be uncovered, it would become an opportunity for us to teach.

 

We are reasonably confident that none of the children, now grown, would feel any significant embarrassment or big difficulty with it. The corporation with whom I have employment is large but is also known both internally and externally as being progressive in social matters; one of the first to offer medical benefits to same-sex domestic partners, imposing disciplinary action when the company's reputation is damaged or an uncomfortable work environment is created (sexual or other kinds of harassment) but not ever as retribution.

 

Maybe we are in a more fortunate situation than others, maybe not. But if we really believed we would be into big trouble, we would not be doing it.

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Well, pretty much thought of one now, because of a loose lipped gal that didnt know what dont say anything to anyone actually meant....although either is fine with me, since I really couldn't care less about what people think of me...

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The only thing any of us own is our integrity.

 

Cheating is dishonest and contrary to integrity.

 

Swinging is honest and supports integrity.

 

If integrity matters--and it does to us -- the answer is obvious.

 

The paradox is that American culture has come to expect cheating and, under certain circumstances, almost embraces it (e.g. JFK). Swinging remains shrouded in darkness.

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a swinger. cheating is sneaky. but, i guess cheating is more acceptable.

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The only thing any of us own is our integrity.

 

Cheating is dishonest and contrary to integrity.

 

Swinging is honest and supports integrity.

 

If integrity matters--and it does to us -- the answer is obvious.

 

The paradox is that American culture has come to expect cheating and, under certain circumstances, almost embraces it (e.g. JFK). Swinging remains shrouded in darkness.

 

I agree Fundamental law.

 

Integrity is about honesty. But is also about character and consistency in your actions. It is about what you know to be true of yourself not what others think they know.

 

If people think negatively of me, I can live with that. If what people think of me is also causes them to think negatively of my family and treat them poorly, that that is much worse. We have seen the negative impact on children of outed parents in news articles Julie has posted.

 

It is Solomonic choice in my mind. The welfare of my family ranks above my reputation, every time. By protecting my family at the expense of my reputation I feel I would have maintained my integrity.

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