Newbie needs some sagely advice: Are things Moving Too Fast?

Thanks for all the advice given by the members of this Board. Your insight has been extrememly helpful!

Happy New Year To ALL!!

So since last I posted, we have found a local group with some very supportive people,

who have been helping us on our journey. We do not play with them, but they have been

helpful in answering questions and been patience with us as we continue on our journey.

As for the wife and I, here is our current situation:

We originally started trying to just find a unicorn, and have had zero luck thus far.

So we decided to stick to couples, and have had a couple of successful play dates with

one, although with some minor issues, as you recall.

Outside of that, things were pretty stagnant, until a few weeks back, when my wife asked

if I would be ok, with her getting a UniBro ( Bluefish?) as a playmate.

Of course, I said I would have to meet the guy and vet him, etc and would have to be their for the first play session.

My worry in this is that we've been warned about single guys recently who have started the practice of "stealthing"

(taking the condom off during play without the women's consent), and I wanted to make sure the rules were clearly

expressed.

So we meet the guy, and he seems a bit high strung, and I chalk it up to nervousness.

The wife and I go to the guys hotel room, and they proceed to play.

During the middle of play the guy freaks out, and doesn't want to continue.

We leave, and later we find out that the guy was Bi-Curious, and he wanted a threesome, and

had hang ups because his wife didn't know what he was doing, etc.

So a week passes, and my wife meets another guy, and we go through the same thing: meeting and

going back to play.

He seems a little high strung, but has his head on straight: He is upfront, says that he is looking to

have more than one play partner, and that he is interested in playing with my wife.

The wife enjoys herself, and we leave. Two days later, she comes to me and asks if I'd be interested in

being in an MFM with the guy, I tell her I'd have to think about it.

Last night, he texts her and asks if they can play. So last night she goes and has a play date with him, without me

being there. they meet at his house and she comes back home a couple of hours later.

This morning, she is talking about going to play with the guy tomorrow, and wants to know if I will be cool with it.

So here I am thinking: Did things move to fast? We went from getting into this originally to find a girl ( unicorn) for a

threesome, and for her to explore her bi-side. We moved to Couples when that wasn't fruitful. Now that that has

been problematic, we are now where we are entertaining single guys?

Just need a bit of perspective and a pair of fresh eyes on this.

I'll be happy to provide additional insight and answer any questions...just trying to get this out before I go to work,

so I'm sure I may have condensed it some.

TIA!

Did you guys move too fast? Probably. But don't worry, this seems like it can get resolved fairly easily.

To reiterate, you guys had your hopes set on an FMF. So you moved on and entered the world of hotwifing. You seem cool with this, and you allow her to have her fun, sometimes with you present, others by herself.

The biggest problem I see is that she invited you into an MFM and you were non-committal. I would suspect that this left her feeling confused. She's trying to please you in the new dynamic and you're not being upfront. To fix this, you both need to have some long talks. You need to decide what you want, what you'll settle for. Are you happy with her going out without you?

Yes, finding a single guy for her is pretty easy, finding suitable couples is more problematic, and finding a unicorn is well nigh impossible. But that's not a reason to settle. Go to work on finding a solution that you as well as she will be happy with long term. And if her playing with guys without you is not to your liking, ask her to slow down.

The wife is feeling the New Relationship Energy, it can be intoxicating when it hasn't been felt in a long time. We have ran in to this before and it did cause some minor issues. After discussing we decided that one-on-one session repeats with a single male is fine, but there should be some time to cool down between meetings. Bonding and attachment can form with too much continuous exposure.

Personally I would say "Yes" you have moved too fast.

I'd say one of the best bits of advice regarding swinging is simply to be patient, that getting this subject to work often requires large amounts of patience.

In other words sometimes you can meet a single women "Unicorn" in a matter of days, but more often it can take weeks, months, or even years worth of effort.

That really you can not expect to jump into the world of group sex and simply meet a sexy single women within the first six months, it takes some couples years to meet the right person, that in most cases success doesn't just happen overnight.

Your post basically makes it sound like....

You wanted to meet a single women but that didn't happen within a few months so you moved straight onto couples, however after a few very brief attempts with couples you decided that doesn't work and have no moved straight on to other men dating your wife in private, because sure its dam easy to find a man willing to have sex with your wife alone.

However in my experience a man meeting your wife alone for sex is not really group sex, its basically you giving your wife permission to have an affair which in my experience is a risky business.

Firstly: It is not impossible to meet a single women, I have said this numerous times before but basically in my experience if you want to meet a single women the best way is simply to ASK a single women her opinions about the threesome subject.

When I first started out in this lifestyle I messaged hundreds of single women on swingers sites which proved to be a total waste of time. In fact once you calculate that about 50% of single women profiles on the internet are either fake profiles set up by spotty teenagers looking for weird sexual kicks, or they are inactive profiles set up by women who have long moved on from the world of group sex then your chances of actually making proper contact with a women is already halved.

Then add the fact that the "Real" single women's profiles actually get spammed with thousands of messages per week then your chances of actually getting noticed are very limited indeed. That actually I have seen women set up swinging / sexual fun profiles and receive 5000 messages in a single weekend. In reality EVERY single man and the vast majority of couples within 200 miles will me messaging that women's profile, in many examples a single women will write "NO SINGLE MALES" but still hundreds and even thousands of single males will still message her profile.

In many cases if you write a message to a single women on a swingers / sexual dating type site then by the time your done writing that message another 10 people have already messaged her. You also have to factor in other things such as age / distance / sexual desires / body type / and various other things. For example you can meet the perfect women for you on the internet, but that is actually no good if she lives 500 miles away, that you can meet a great women on the internet who sounds totally fantastic but that is no good if your a little out of her age range and she loses interest and meets someone younger.

That actually your chances of meeting a "Local" single girl and you ticking all of her boxes, you matching exactly what she is looking for is very slim anyway. If you add together the fake profiles, the inactive profiles, the logistical problems, the fact that single women get spammed with hundreds of messages from every desperate cheating single guy within 200 miles, then basically your chances of meeting this mythical unicorn on line are maybe 1% if your lucky.

I'd also point out that sadly a lot of single women are always looking for the bigger better deal, that actually if I met a women on a swinging site today and invited her back to my house for a threesome, then by the time I have finished having sex with her another 10 / 50 / 100 men have messaged her swingers profile at home. In many cases I could meet a women on the internet and fuck her and by the time she has got home she has another 100 messages waiting many of which are from sexier / hotter / fitter men than me.

In reality if you meet a women on line then you HAVE HER, when in reality she has 10'000 different single men and couples to pick from, she has endless choice and it isn't long before someone comes along a makes her a better offer. Maybe she likes tall men and someone taller than you messages her, maybe someone who lives a lot closer to her messages, maybe someone who shares more of her hobbies and pastimes messages her, maybe someone who simply has a bigger dick messages her, for whatever reason it isn't long before a women on line gets a bigger better offer and can lose interest in you as a couple very quickly.

I figured all of that out years ago and since that point just totally abandoned looking for single women on the internet, for many couples its a total waste of time and effort.

However that has NOT stopped me from having threesomes with women.

In fact now I simply find a single women and ask her in person, I go out there (into the real world) and meet a single girl that I like and simply ask that single women about her opinions on threesomes. That putting it blunt I meet a women who I think would be open minded towards threesomes and after a brief chat, after getting to know her a little I ask her if she would consider a threesome with me and my girlfriend, and honestly that approach has worked for me various times.

I have said all of this before, but I will repeat myself and say......

STEP ONE: Meet a women a strike up a general conversation with her. This could be a women sitting at a bus stop / waiting for a train / at a bar or nightclub / at a party / at some kind of organised event / for example you could meet a girl at a football game / firework display / dinner party / at the gym / even working in a local shop. The aim is simply to strike up a normal and friendly conversation with this women, for example ask how her day has been, ask if she lives locally, ask how long she has been coming to this gym, speak about the glorious sunny day, basically make small talk and be friendly.

STEP TWO: Once you have started a friendly conversation with this women your first priority is to find out if she is currently single. I would simply ask a question such as "So is your boyfriend/husband not travelling with you today? So is your boyfriend/husband not at this firework display with you today? So does your boyfriend/husband not attend this gym with you?" In many cases the women will basically tell you if she does have a boyfriend/husband or not. In some cases however you do have to ask outright and simply say "So do you actually have a boyfriend/husband at the moment? Are you currently single?" however my general goal is simply to find out if they are single so you can ask any question you like to clarify this fact. If a women isn't single then I break off the conversation shortly after, the last thing I want is some angry 6ft boyfriend appearing and been upset with me for speaking to his girlfriend.

STEP THREE: If the women is single, if the women isn't currently seeing anyone then I will simply ask her opinion about the threesome subject which can be difficult to speak about with a total stranger. However I learnt long ago that if a women takes offence to my line of questioning then what does it matter, I'll probably never even see her again. If however she responds well to my questions then we could become friends or even sex buddies. Usually I will say something like:

"Hey I know this is a proper strange question, hopefully you won't take offence by me saying this but the other day one of my friends asked my advice and I was really unsure what to say. I was at his house and he told me that him and his wife were thinking about having a threesome with someone and he asked my advice? I honestly didn't know what to tell him and guess I could use a female prospective, I'm totally unsure how a women would react to such things? What do you think about the threesome subject? What would you tell my friend? Like stated sorry for asking such a weird question guess I'm just confused about what to tell my friend"

"Hey I know this is a proper strange subject by I was watching the new on TV this morning and was really shocked because they ran an article about threesomes, apparently everyone is trying them now, they are the new thing for couples to try but been honest I have never really thought about such things and was a little shocked that it was on TV, what is your opinion about such things?"

STEP FOUR: Simply see what reaction the women has, and generally there are only two responses:

A) Negative: The women takes offence at you even mentioning the word "Threesome" she says "Eeewww no way that is disgusting, I'd never do that" in which case you have her answer, you have her gut reaction. Which is great because you can quickly wrap up the conversation, you can make your excuses and leave, and you never need to see or speak with her again in your life. On very rare occasion the women might get really offended and call you a pervert for even mentioning the subject, in which case you can say "Sorry I didn't mean any offence I was just asking because I am so confused about what to tell my friend, I AGREE 100% with you its perverted but I didn't want to sound like a square to my friend, I wanted to sound cool and open minded but didn't know what to say, anyway sorry to have bothered you" and walk away.

B) Positive: Really this is what you are looking for, a positive answer. The women will say something like "Yeah I guess a threesome could be fun. I guess if the couple agreed it could work. I guess it could be exciting. With the right people why not try it. If it was safe then whats the harm" Her gut reaction on hearing the word "Threesome" has been good, she has not instantly taken offence by hearing it and in about 90% of cases I'll be laid in bed with that women within a few weeks pulling off her knickers with my naked girlfriend laid next to her.

STEP FIVE: Is simply asking for her contact details, phone number, email, Face Book or whatever your preferred form of communication is. Personally I either ask for her email address, or phone number. I generally don't like adding people to Face Book so early because it allowed them to see too much information about you. However I generally ask for her email address to which the women will usually ask WHY I want her email address? I simply say because I have enjoyed talking to her / that she sounds like a nice person / that I'd like to speak with her more and would like to email her. Sometimes I might also say something like "Well I'd like to speak with you about something strange and it might be easier by email" I also make sure to explain that I simply want to chat with her and using email would be an easy way of doing that. Remind the women that I am NOT some hacker computer geek trying to track her, that if she doesn't like my email she can simply delete it and block me if she wanted, that really I'm just after a chance to talk with her more in a safe way via email.

I would point out that when asking a women for her email address that some women instantly think your some kind of computer guru who wants her email to send her a tracking virus or something silly like that, Make sure you explain that you just wanted to chat with her more and email is a safe way of doing that, really you just want to chat and are not a computer science guru or hacker. In many cases the women will give me her email address, even if its an old "Spam" email address that she hardly uses, in fact a lot of people have 2 or 3 different email addresses so giving you one of them shouldn't be hard.

STEP SIX: I go home and then write a lengthy and honest email to this women, I tell the women that I enjoyed talking to her / found her attractive / that I am dating someone already / but that just been totally honest we would love to meet a friend to have a threesome FRIENDSHIP with. I guess this part requires some kind of skill or at least convincing. Most women will be very worried about some random guy messaging her and asking if she would consider a threesome. However there are lot of things you can say to convince this women, for example.

Remind her that you are been honest, that you have 0% intention to hurt her, that you have done the polite and honest thing by asking her for her email address so you can be honest with her and discuss this in a safe and friendly way. Let her know that your own girlfriend/wife fully support you regarding the threesome subject, that she also would like to try. Remind this women that if she is currently single then she can actually stay be single or she could begin a fun new friendship with you until the right person for her comes along. In other words do you want to stay single and not have any sexual fun or company, or would you prefer to have some fun whilst you wait to meet the right person.

I also heavily remind this women that we are NOT looking to rush into a threesome, we are simply looking to make a new friend, to meet up and chat more, to have drinks, to meet in the local coffee shop, to see if we get on. If we do get on then COOL we can become friends. If we do NOT get on then no problem, no harm done she can simply walk away. I remind her that she can walk away whenever she wants, that she doesn't have to do anything at all if she doesn't want. If she doesn't like us then there is no harm done at least we tried, at least we gave it a chance.

I remind her that we are a clean, honest, hard working couple, that we have genuine reasons for wanting a new and fun friendship in our lives. I remind her that we are NOT asking to hurt her but in fact are asking the exact opposite. I remind her that she does NOT need to be a porn star, I remind her that I'm not perfect, my girlfriend is not perfect, that we are just normal people, we are not porn stars, we are not super models, we are not sexual gurus, we are simply a clean and hard working normal couple who would like to try this subject with someone we like, and we think that person could be her.

Explain to her what could happen and make it SLOW!!!! For example let her know that ALL YOU WANT is to meet up in a local coffee shop for a few drinks and a chat. Let her know that you don't want to rush straight into anything sexual. Let her know that you will happily meet her once, twice, three times, four times just for coffee or drinks, maybe even a meal if you get along. Let her know that if she does like you / if you all get along then you will invite her to your house for drinks or a film, that she does NOT have to do anything sexual at all.

Once you have met a few times, once you have all chatted, then let her know if anything sexual ever does happen that you will NOT TELL ANYONE. That it would start really slow, that maybe you would all simply try cuddling, maybe you could try kissing each other and then see what you think of that. Maybe next time you met you could kiss a little more, have a close cuddle and just see how things go. No one is asking this women to come to your home and simply strip naked straight away, no one is asking her to have sex with you in a single day of knowing you. Its vital that she knows that she has the chance to get to know you, that anything sexual could happen at a nice slow pace, and only if she agreed and you all got along okay.

Its also vital to point out that you will NOT tell anyone else. That even if she did agree to have sex with you then you will not tell anyone else, your not interested in taking pictures, your not interested in filming anyone having sex, it would simply be a fun and private friendship with any sexual stuff happening behind closed curtains and locked doors. In other words her friends are NOT going to find out, not unless she tells them. Her family is NOT going to find out not unless she tells them. That your lips will be 100% sealed and you will respect her and her friendship.

I also explain to such women that we are after a FRIENDSHIP. In other words were not just asking to FUCK HER. But were also asking for a normal everyday friendship with her, that we are asking to hang out with her / eat food with her / meet up for drinks with her / watch films together / have days out together / have evenings out together / enjoy certain events together / just relax together / be new friends together.

This stage is really just about writing a convincing enough / honest enough email that portrays YOU as been a very honest, safe, clean, and trusting couple who genuinely wants her friendship. One of the biggest stumbling blocks her is always YOUR GIRLFRIEND. That this new women will naturally be worried about your girlfriend or wife. This new women will be thinking things like.....

What happens if his girlfriend/wife is 10 times sexier than me?

What happens if his girlfriend/wife freaks out if I touch him?

What happens if his girlfriend/wife is been forced into this subject?

What happens if his girlfriend/wife doesn't like me when we meet?

Really its about telling this women that you girlfriend/wife is happy for this to happen, that your girlfriend/wife will not freak out, that she isn't some perfect glamour model, that your partner is also just a normal person like me or you. That really all your asking is for a chance to meet up and chat, if for whatever reason this women and your girlfriend or wife don't get along then okay you don't have to meet again but at least you tuck a chance and tried.

STEP 7: Enjoy your new fuck buddy, in a massive amount of cases the women I have done this with and have ended up in my bed within a few weeks time. YES it generally does take 5,10, even 15 emails back and forth to speak with this new women about what your offering but in most cases we end up meeting the girl, end up getting on with the girl, and then within about a week I'm sat on my sofa kissing them both, within two weeks I usually have two naked and bathed girls laid in my bed both willing to let me inside.

OVERALL:

I think once of the best factors here is simply that:

The girl is single > Does she want to stay alone and single > or does she want some friendship and fun?

Does she want to sit there been alone and single or does she want some new fun and friendship in her life?

Really you just have to convince the women that you are safe / that she would be safe.

SINGLE MEN:

Where single men are concerned, well I'd say in a lot of cases having a threesome with a single man can be okay, but that letting your wife basically fuck and date single men on her own can quickly turn into a mine field. That in my eyes its a 50/50 situation meaning 50% of men might be okay, the other 50% might try to steal your wife / stalk your wife / become sexually obsessed with your wife / rape your wife / ask your wife to leave you and be with them.

I'm not saying your wife dating other men can not work, but I'd prefer to get to know this guy very well before letting that happen. In my case I have known a male play partner for maybe 15 years and we have had many, many MMF / MFM threesomes together, and sure he can fuck my partner whenever he likes, but it tuck many years of me knowing him to reach that stage. I know for a fact that he will not turn funny, I know he will not try to steal my partner, I know he will treat her well. But all of that takes time, or at least did in my experience.