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  1. #1

    Default She says she's not interested ...

    We've been married for 29 years.. She's 53 and I'm 51...
    and neither has ever had sex with anybody else - and we've been discussing an MFM threesome at my instigation initially for the past 3 years ...

    It's become more and more a regular part of our play and fantasy talk though ultimately she firmly says she's not interested in another man ... usually she says that it's wrong, and she's worried about going to hell - or what if somebody - family or others found out - "I'm not that sort of girl..." sometimes she has said that she would enjoy some parts of it... And has "joked" about another guy.. Usually she sticks with her main reasons for not participating.. Over the years though she does indulge me more in discussing or playing with the fantasy..

    Especially in the past 12 months or so, when we talk about MFM and act it out in fantasy ... It's become a very regular role play/ fantasy ... her reactions and orgasms often seem more intense! In the past 3 or 4 months she has gotten completely wet when we have been acting out the fantasy three or four times ... e.g. we are spooning and I am nibbling her neck, and pretending that my hand is another guy's hand or mouth on her tits, clit and everywhere else.. That he has total access to her front ... we've done all sorts of variations on this theme ... but the key question is ... if she's become wetter than ever before recently and each time an MFM fantasy is involved, can I be totally sure that it's related to the fantasy??

    I know she'll deny it at first ... but would be interested in the thoughts of others on this ... Especially women.. I think it's a classic case of finding something exciting but denying or minimising the extent of the excitement.. Head ruling libido.. Or is that wishful thinking on my part??

    Am I reading too much into her wetness? She has been worried about the bed becoming wet as a result.. Something that never happened to the same extent before this year...

    It sounds a really stupid question, but I guess that's what this forum is for, right?

    Thank you in advance

    Al


  2. #2

    Default Re: She says she's not interested ...

    It won't be easy, Nakedal, but your wife needs to address early Christian history. Jesus never taught that sex was sin. That came along with Saul of Tarsus, who never met Jesus and is considered my many historians to have been a charlatan and a misogynist. Constantine, when he ordered the bible to be written, included Saul's epistles to assuage Romans who didn't want too big of a culture change with the new religion. Tell her "knowledge is power" and let her mind soar from there. Beyond the sin-issue lies Freedom.
    "They may call me a rube and a hick, but I'd a lot rather be the man who bought the Brooklyn Bridge than the man who sold it." óWill Rogers

    "Swingin' Down to Tulsa," a novel by the Aluras. Read a free sample Here

  3. #3

    Default Re: She says she's not interested ...

    I have dated several girls who get really turned on when we talk about MFM threesomes, but then have totally refused to try the subject.

    Talking and actually doing are two very different things.

    In my experience if the person your dating says no, has worries about this subject, has deep seeded fears, has displayed 4 or 5 problems in trying this subject, AND THEN you do end up trying this subject then it usually will lead into disaster and disappointment on your behalf.

    More than likely if you try a MFM threesome with this women then it will probably seem okay, but very shortly after / the day / over the following weeks you could expect arguments, her crying, her treating you like a cheater, her taking the first steps in classing you as a pervert and sexual deviant, her becoming more hostile when you try speaking about the subject, her experiencing a lot of irrational fears and worries, her accusing you of trying to share your love with other people, and probably more crying, arguments and grief.

    It sounds like a very similar position to what I have faced with ex partners, the one that sticks out in my mind the most was my long term ex girlfriend who I actually dated for over 10 years. When I first asked her to consider threesomes she actually reacted very badly indeed, her comments were along the lines of:

    "NO WAY that's disgusting, that would cheating, what if people found out, my body wouldn't be good enough, I'm not interested"

    Then slowly we began talking about it more, we began role play and sexy talk in bed and sure she would have epic orgasms when I talked about other guys in bed with us, at times she would even ask me to talk about other guys. I was excited, I thought she was coming around to the idea, and I'm not proud to admit it but in my younger years I basically talked her into trying this subject, I pestered her until she gave in and agreed to try which actually led into one of the most frustrating times of my life.

    We did meet a few guys who really didn't turn out to be that good, but obviously I kept pushing the subject until we did meet a great guy, his body was nice, his cock was fairly big and rock hard, he was good in bed, he treated me and my girlfriend very well indeed, he respected all our rules, he obeyed anything we asked, and we had about 3 or 4 threesomes with this guy during which my girlfriend had amazing orgasms, she would have 3 or 4 orgasms every time. In total that guy caused us NO PROBLEMS at all, our life didn't change as a result, we were still together, no one cheated, no one found out, we still did everything normal couples would do, the only real difference is about once a week me and him would pull off my girlfriends knickers together and spend several hours pleasing her and giving her very fun good sex.

    Then out of nowhere my girlfriend went nuts, she became argumentative, crying, aggressive, insulting towards me, moody, cold, snappy, and she again displayed a huge amount of problems, fears, and worries about this lifestyle, she was even very rude to the man we had met, basically she blew up the entire situation in our faces.

    I just couldn't understand, this guy was great, he hadn't caused us a single problem, he had treated us with total respect and was a nice fun lover for my girlfriend, but still my girlfriend reverted straight back to her original issues with this subject, its wrong, its bad, its cheating, blarr blarr.

    Well over the next 5 years the situation caused even more problems in our relaitonship, I knew that it wasn't cheating, I knew in my heart that me and the other guy both respected my girlfriend, was both turned on by my girlfriend, both me and him really wanted to explore this with her, that no one had found out about our sexual exploits, that no one was cheating, my girlfriend had a size 8 body, she was thin, sexy, toned, and when she put her mind to it she was great in bed, I knew the problems she was displaying wasn't really problems at all, that she was simply afraid.

    Over the next 12 months I explained all of this to her, we spoke in depth about her problems with this lifestyle, and again I basically just spent 12 months talking her into trying this subject again and in the end she agreed to try again. But alas the exact same thing happened, we got in bed with our sex buddy, and at first she did amazingly well, she was very passionate with us both, she was eager, horny, happy, she had wonderful orgasms with us both, the first 2 or 3 times went amazingly well and I was reassuring her all the way.

    THEN she blew up again, the next moment it was tears, bitter arguments, her displaying the exact same problems she had when this first began. We had just spent many months talking about those problems, the facts were very simple the fears and worries she had were all in her head, none of the fears or worries she had ever happened but she still went crazy at me about them.

    So again we tuck a 6 month break from swinging before we tried again, only to watch her go crazy again, followed by another 12 month break before we tried again only to watch her go crazy again. In the end we not only had to quit swinging all together but ended up breaking up a while after, and once we had broken up she then classed me as a sick twisted sex crazed pervert who apparently forced her into deprived sex acts that she never enjoyed.

    Never enjoyed? At some points she couldn't get our jeans off fast enough, at some point our male friend would walk in the door and moment later she would be tugging on his jeans wanting to suck what he had inside them. I didn't force her into anything, I may have talked her into trying but I didn't put a gun to her head.


    WHATS THE MAIN POINT?


    The main point is that I tried for many years to solve this girls worries and problems with this lifestyle, I tried a variety of different things, we spoke in depth, we studied online forums, we watched porn films together, we discussed things in length, but at the end of the day I COULD NOT TAKE AWAY HER ISSUES AND WORRIES.

    That maybe 7 years later she would still revert back to the very same problems she had when I first asked her, I thought over time, with experience, with communication that I would solve some of those problems, that I'd show her that the fears she had wasn't real, that in time she would defeat some of these worries and fears. But instead every time she would go straight back to those original fears and problems, that actually all my efforts, all the things I tried, no matter what I did, no matter what I said, none of it even changed a single problem in her mind.

    Yes she would get horny about the subject when I spoke about it in bed, yes when we did try the subject she sometimes would have an amazing time, then other times she would go straight back to the problems fears and worries which were all in her head and she would blow up the entire situation and what followed was several weeks of cold snappy behaviour, crying, arguing, accusations, bitter fights, and in reality none of the issues she had was actually real.

    What this taught me was.......

    I WAS NOT THE RIGHT PERSON TO HELP HER WITH THESE ISSUES.

    Because (I) was the person asking her to do this she almost had a natural mistrust towards me, she knew I wanted to do this so she thought I'd say ANYTHING to make her believe it was okay. But that was the point it was actually okay, the guy we were seeing didn't cause us even 1 problem, the problems were all in her head and heart and I was the wrong person to try and extract those problems.

    Looking back now if I could have arranged a therapist, if I could have arranged her several years of sexual styled therapy then maybe someone else, maybe a totally independent third party could have taken some of these issues away because she didn't trust me, I was the person asking for this subject which meant I was powerless to help with her issues.

    I was with her over 10 years and by the time we finally ended she was still reverting back to the very same issues worries and fears she had all those years before when I first asked her, all of my efforts, all the talking, all the waiting, all the patience, all the hoping and dreaming, all the research, no matter what we tried it didn't change a single problem in her head.

    In my experience at least if you ask someone to consider a threesome and they display issues with this subject then it doesn't matter if those issues are silly, wrong, not correct, they are still deeply seeded issues that you can not change.

  4. #4

    Default Re: She says she's not interested ...

    Sun&Moon display what is probably a fairly popular response to the mfm or swing idea. The idea appeals to the woman during sex, and the fantasy makes her super hot. The actual act with a 3rd person or swap can bring out some amazing sexiness. But the brain is great at torturing us. Women in particular seem to be more influenced by feelings and perceptions. If they feel like a slut or threatened, even socially or religiously, it can have a negative effect.
    I don't think men are very good at understanding a woman's feelings toward sex. To the guy, it's just another dick, another way to have fun. To the woman, they are putting everything they are out there. The risk is way higher in several ways.
    I must have read a hundred posts about guys trying to get their wife interested in some group sex. Sometimes it works, sometimes it works for awhile. Usually it doesn't work.
    I feel that pushing it can have the desired immediate effect but cause long term damage. Remember, your wife want's to please you. Sometimes she will go along with ideas she is not on board with to please. Be careful.

  5. #5

    Default Re: She says she's not interested ...

    Some people just aren't 'wired' for this.Either because of religious upbringing, imposed morals, personal beliefs, or whatever, they just can't 'do' this. It's cheating, they are a slut or sexual deviant, you are a sexual deviant, it 'isn't right', (and in the case of swinging with other couples) you just want to sleep with other people, you are looking for an exit plan, you don't love her, whatever. It doesn't even matter what they might think, it's how they feel and nothing will change that. Square peg, round hole...it just is never going to fit.

    One of the very first steps needs to be working on your trust and communication with her. As the trust and communication increases, ask her about her fantasies. Then ask her if she ever wanted these fantasies to become real. It will take along time (if you do it right) and even then, she may or may not be interested. If she says she isn't, then just let it go. Your relationship should always come first, especially before something that you may want and she may not. Many women fantasize about things that they never want to become real, but it's still fun to imagine them (and imagination is always a perfect scenario with no awkward moments). Just because you THINK she may want to do something...why don't you try talking to her instead? But if the answer is no, do not push it because you have convinced yourself otherwise.
    If you donít have to lie about sex, you donít have to lie about anything. - John Williamson

  6. #6

    Default Re: She says she's not interested ...

    Hey thank you all for your responses... It's one of those that in one sense, it's not what I want to hear - since it would be great to hear lots of ... yes this is where I/we were at, but now we've worked through it all and life is amazing as swingers ... On the other hand it IS what I want to hear since it's important to understand all this stuff and hear reality...!

    So from what I'm hearing:
    1) Alura - the religious objections aren't necessarily based around what God would want anyway ... and we've also talked about the role of concubines in the Old Testament ... I likened the guy in an MFM to being her concubine ... she can see it, but it does go against all sorts of previous conditioning ...
    2) Sun&Moon - that sounds like lessons learned through real hard experience - and yes, you are right neither of us would want an outcome like that ... we've been married 29 years and are very much in love still and we do communicate a lot and talk about MFM and feelings ... so tread VERY carefully. I sense that you feel that my wife is probably not wired for swinging really... though I have read a number of stories on these forums where a wife with a Christian upbringing starts off objecting, then reaches a point where she embraces the lifestyle ... I HOPE that we reach this point, but if not the fantasy and sex play is VERY very good so it's not the end of the world ...
    3) JandK ... Your points about the difference between how women and men feel about sex is a good one and thought provoking ... I do get that she wants to be faithful to me and doesn't need someone else to make the sex good - and neither do I to be fair ... though I do love (And I think she's excited by it to in one part of her) the thought of her having double the pleasure and stimulation at once! And I'd love to see her letting herself loose with another guy, while knowing she is loved by her husband and appreciated and desired by two guys at once ... It's one of those weighing things up deals - and for her it seems that it's something that is exciting - the reality may well be something she just never becomes comfortable with ... or maybe she will??
    4) GoldCo - I used your "being wired" for this or not statement earlier since it seemed to be part of what Sun&Moon was saying ... and it's very possible that she isn't wired this way ... and I get that some people are very wired for it from the get go ... Isn't there another scenario though where people become interested in the idea, and stimulated by it more and more over time and then give it a try and enjoy it?? Or am I deluding myself? The trust and communication is important obviously and I really am trying to go at her pace with this and not force her into doing anything she wouldn't want or enjoy ... definitely I value our marriage over any desire to swing!

    I'd be interested to hear back from any of you, if I have over-simplified what you are saying or even twisted it in any way... or any other thoughts you have?

    My initial "Stupid question" though ... the getting very wet and more stimulated after an MFM role play/ scenario ... that does seem to indicate at least some desire doesn't it? Even if ultimately other "head stuff" over-rules it all?

    Any other stories and experiences around this would be really welcome too ... thank you all!

  7. #7

    Default Re: She says she's not interested ...

    Has your wife read this board at all? What about going to a meet and greet in your area? She would have the opportunity to talk to other women about the exerience and fantasies, things we don't share with our vanilla friends. At a meet and greet there is no pressure to play. If interested she may agree to a party or club with the agreement to only play with each other and enjoy the environment. MFM's are my favorite, my idea as a single lady without a partner. Fantasy to reality took a while as I was trying to understand my desires and how to make them happen.

  8. #8

    Default Re: She says she's not interested ...

    Men tend to want to select the starting swing activity based on their fantasy. People get into the pool or ocean in different ways. Some run and dive in, others tiptoe in, some others may just take off their closes and lay naked tanning along side. First steps, baby steps, these are important concepts. Communicate, what is her fantasy. What would she like to do or be willing to do that is a bit more sexual than she is being now. It could be something as dressing a bit sexy and going out to dinner or to a bar where there is dancing. Baby steps.

  9. #9

    Default Re: She says she's not interested ...

    My first thought (also) is:
    Does your wife participate with you on this BBS?
    There is a wealth of information and expereince here, and it could be a really fun thing to do, and learn, together.

    Lots of good suggestions here, especially the "Meet & Greet" attendance. That is a very popular way to connect with like-minded folks, and get clarification on questions y'all may have. Just be sure to do what you need to do (whatever that may be), to assure her that the event will be "no pressure".

    As for your question about your wife getting wet associated with role-play... I'd be inclined to answer: "Yes".... However: I agree with the tread lightly ("baby steps") approach. Being pushy and aggressive seldom gets you a desirable result.

    About 8 years ago I was trying to get my partner to warm-up to my favorite kink: V&E (voyeurism & exhibitionism). We were on cam on AFF (which can be a bit of a zoo), naked in bed, just chatting with some of the watchers, and lightly fondling each other occasionally. Folks were being civil, and politely encouraging & complimentary, especially of her. (It took months BTW, to get her to agree to do even that. We always kept our faces hidden.) She was being (typically) quiet, and a bit shy. I was doing most of the chatting. Something prompted me at one point to feel how wet she was, and much to my surprise she was completely soaked. After a quick whispered exchange we turned off the cam and had one of the best play sessions we'd had up to that point. This was definitely a turning-point event. She soon afterward (matter of weeks) became a very willing participant, putting on live sex shows on cam, and even getting creative about it, making suggestions, etc. She really got into it, which was a very substantial turnabout from her attitude when we started.

    The main point to the story is that, as mentioned, everyone is not necessarily wired the same way, but sometimes it takes the right trigger for someone to come out of their shell, if that is where they are inclined to go, but don't know it yet.

    As has been suggested already, be patient and keep your relationship first. The fact that she will even discuss these things is a good indicator. And always be sure to move no faster than the speed of the slowest person involved.
    "I ride my bicycle to ride my bicycle."


  10. #10

    Default Re: She says she's not interested ...

    Thank you again for your comments I do appreciate you trying to help us out ...

    The idea of us either exploring this message board together ... Yes that does sound a good early step - she has allowed me to post a couple of photos on another site (kellyschat) for some feedback - initially it was to resolve a long standing difference of opinion over whether people would find her tits sexy ... and that one was resolved ... they are REALLY delicious was the consensus! She doesn't want to engage in actually looking at the comments and people with me - since that would make it look like she's interested; though I think she has secretly enjoyed some of the feedback; most of us like to be appreciated or even desired I think. It does add some credibility when I tell that she has an amazing body ... we joke about her "world famous tits" sometimes ... and I think it has given her more confidence that she is desirable to other men. She always realised this to an extent; she has a great body, period! And even more so for someone of our age. And she does realise that So the sharing her photo there was helpful.

    So coming into here together I think could work; though I imagine she'd listen more than actually look at first ... since that would be admitting some interest and encouraging me to maybe take it further than she is comfortable with right now.

    Meets and greets - a good option maybe if she does decide to take things further... that would be very much for her to decide what she's comfortable with a few steps down the line ... with the huge assumption of course that she decides to dip her toe in the water ...

    chic - I tried asking her last night what her biggest fantasy was - she is generally more of a doer than a talker about sex so nothing indicated last night - although is willing to discuss MFM when I bring it up ... our dynamic often seems to be that I lead her into "naughtiness" - I think this may take away some of the negative feelings about feeling "naughty" - since someone else ie me! Is the naughty one - which actually is very true! Definitely baby steps is the way to go - and just gently stretching some of those comfort zones little by little at her pace... which could of course be "STOP! that's far enough!"

    And your story luv2 is really encouraging ... it's the sort of breakthrough I HOPE will happen ; but if not I love and fancy her immensely and am definitely enjoying the journey I think she is too secretly a little bit - and has worries and concerns about it too ... at least that's my considered perception ..!

  11. #11

    Default Re: She says she's not interested ...

    JandKinBoise gave a great and honest answer.


    That a lot of women do become turned on about this IDEA.

    That when your talking about this idea, role playing, fantasising, telling your wife naughty stories, naughty ideas, then sure its very common for them to became turned on / wet / have orgasms quicker. Like stated in my post I have dated a few girls who really enjoyed me talking about MFM threesomes in bed, at times they have even asked me to speak about other guys pleasing them, but when I tried to make that fantasy a reality they had no interest whatsoever, that TALKING about this idea is one thing, having it as a naughty bed time fantasy is one thing, actually doing it is another all together.

    Like JandKinBoise said to us guys adding another person, is just another person to fuck, for a women adding another person is a risk to their home, risk to their relationship, the possibility of people finding out, the possibility of them been branded a slut, in many cases to a women adding someone else is a sign they are not good enough for their partner, that their partner wants more than they can offer.

    My honest guess is that if you try group sex then it will probably be fun, will probably be nice, exciting, but that your wife will experience a lot of problems shortly after.


    HOWEVER.....

    By the sounds of things that is not really the question you are asking, that it sounds like your looking for advice on how to make this happen, how to make it a reality. Well....


    1: Talk: The first step is to speak with your wife.

    To let your wife know that you understand she has some worries about this subject, you understand that she has some fears surrounding this subject, that actually you do understand this subject is not a big deal, that its not a huge priority, that its your life together, your relationship that means the most to you, but that if possible you would really like to explore this subject with her.

    However do yourself a favour, DO NOT use the word "LOVE" do not say things like:

    "I'd love to try this subject"
    "I'd love to see you with another man"
    "I love the idea of threesomes"

    Remember you LOVE your wife, you love your family, and everything else you just like. The word love is reserved for your wife not about a subject like this.


    2: Therapy: In my younger years I met a married women online and we became friends, whilst we never met in person we did chat almost everyday for some years, we would discuss our desire to swing, we would discuss our sex lives, we would discus how our relationships was going. Over the years we became great friends, at least 4 or 5 times a week we would email each other. During this time she told me about her past, she told me how many years ago she totally HATED the idea of sex, that her swinging life began when she met her husband.

    She met her husband who was a very well paid worker and he mentioned the idea of swinging to her and she totally 100% hated the entire idea, she viewed it as disgusting, horrible, cheating, she was super shy about her body, didn't understand how sexy she was, didn't understand the sexual power she had. In return her husband actually put her into therapy, her husband provided her a professional person to speak with and two years later her entire life and thought process has been radically changed, from been this scared little mouse she could now walk into a room with 4 or 5 guys and have sex with them all, she would arrange threesomes and foursomes for her husband and he would walk in from work and there would be 2 or 3 women their waiting for him.

    Back in 2004 I had to see a mental health doctor to assess my state after a bad accident I had, they needed to assess how it has effected me for the insurance claim. This elderly women sat in front of me and we got talking, during that interview she actually said as a therapist the biggest question she had been asked in her 22 year career was couples wanting to have threesomes or to improve their sex life. Name your poison, threesomes, dressing up, bondage, by all counts she has seen thousands of couples all with the same question, by all accounts couples wanting to explore threesomes is a very very common thing these days.

    She also explained that as a doctor she could NOT discuss anything that we spoke about, that she would lose her job and end up sued if she broke client confidentiality, the ONLY TIME she could discuss your case with other people is if you were a danger to yourself or others, or if you had broke the law in some extreme way. Its not an easy option, its not a cheap option, its not a quick fix, but you could consider having therapy together. Find yourself a therapist and YOU have an initial meeting with them, just have a 30 minute session and then figure out if this therapist is against threesomes, or okay with threesomes.

    You could say....

    "You probably have been asked this question a 1000 times but what is your thoughts / your experience on group sex such as threesomes?"

    If the therapist answered in a negative way and said they didn't have much experience with that then find a different therapist, if they answered in a positive way and said it was a very common thing for them, then sure arrange ongoing therapy sessions for your wife, and at times for you both together.

    You can not expect miracles, that for 6 months you probably wouldn't notice much change, but sure your wife having someone else to speak with, your wife having someone else to discuss her issues with will help greatly over time. Really the aim is not to make your wife have threesomes, its simply to increase her sexual confidence which therapists are good at doing, so that is one idea.


    3: Sex Toys: You probably already have these anyway but if not go out and buy yourself a variety of sex toys, blindfolds, hand restraints, sex rope, dildos and vibrators, don't just buy 1 vibrator, buy 4 or 5 different ones, some very small "Bullet Vibrators" and some bigger ones as well. DON'T buy cheap ones, by well designed more expensive ones and then make then available for your wife to use with you and even when your not around. If your wife can not use a fake plastic penis in front of you then how will she ever stick another mans real penis inside her with you watching? For now the dildo / vibrator replaces the feeling of another man been there.

    4: Porn: Watch threesome porn together which is a great way to desensitise someone regarding the idea of threesomes. However be careful because you do not want to show your wife threesome porn films where all the actors are young sexy 21 year old models who have much better bodies than her. You also don't want to show your wife porn films that contain lots of things she doesn't like, for example if your wife really doesn't like anal sex, then pick threesome porn films that do not show anal sex, if your wife really doesn't like people cumming in her mouth show threesomes films where the guys don't cum in the girls mouth. Remember some porn films are very hardcore, rough, brutal and if your wife is not use to such things it can put them off, instead look for romantic threesome films, passionate threesomes films where the sex is nicer, safer, more pleasant then maybe move on to the harder stuff at a much later date.

    If you can use porn films to show your wife that people of all sizes, ages, shapes do explore threesomes, and that the sex is not totally wild porn star sex then it can sometimes help. If your wife can not sit with you and watch someone else having sex on a TV how will she ever have sex with you and other people in real life?


    5: Your Wife's Desires: Another aspect you can try is to find out a lot more about what your wife desires, what turns your wife on.

    I mean does your wife like short men, tall men, brown haired men, blonde hair, red hair, white men, tanned men, black men, does she like very educated men or a normal level of education, does she like men who dress a certain way, does she like a man to be soft and caring or strong and forward, does she fantasise about men in uniform, if she wasn't with you, if she was single, who would her ideal man be, would he have long hair, really short hair, would he be thin, fat, covered in muscles, what music would he like, what food would he like, would he like certain hobbies.

    Find out about your wife's morals, would she feel okay playing with a married man, would she prefer someone who is totally single, what about his body would his dick be small, medium, large, massive. How much does she value hygiene, would this guy be spotless, relaxed, rough around the edges. Does she like or dislike beards, what is her opinion on smokers or drinkers.

    If you can find out as much as possible about what your wife would like in a partner then it will allow you to upgrade your naughty speak and fantasies, rather than just talking about some guy, you can talk about the type of man she would actually want to join you, if that makes sense.


    6: Security & The Home: One thing that can effect a lot of women is the fear of been caught, the fear of other people finding out, and secondly another thing that can effect women is the state of the home. Sometimes, not all the time, but if a women is embarrassed by the state of her house then she will not feel comfy inviting others into that space. If the house is messy, damp, cluttered, damaged, dirty then they will not feel very sexy in that space, sometimes working on the house, re-decorating, creating a safer nicer warmer space can help a person feel more comfy and sexy.

    Also you could work on the security aspects of your house, for example add a lock on your bedroom door, add blackout curtains and blinds to the window, add lighting that you can dim down, add a heater if needed. My bedroom at home actually has a "Panic Button" wired directly into our alarm system, press the buttons and the entire house alarm sets off, my bedroom door also has a 5 leaver key lock which is a high security version, the door also has hinge bolts meaning if my partner is in the house alone she can use our bedroom as a panic room.

    Creating a safe, warm, secure, private place can help dispel some of these negative thoughts. I'd like you to imagine that I am going to come to your house to spy on you. I am going to try your front door in hope of seeing you and your wife having a threesome. I'm going to peak through every window. I'm going to look through your letter box. I'm going to get a ladder and climb up to your bedroom windows and look through them. If I got in your house I'm going to try your bedroom door and see if its unlocked, then I'm going to jump inside your bedroom wearing my batman costume and am going to take see you and your wife having a threesome, I'mm then going to tell everyone you know, video the event, then upload the results on Porn Hub.

    In the past I have dated several women who have been very worried that we will have a threesome and a friend, family member, or someone else will just walk straight into the house and catch us, that they will look through our windows and somehow see us having sex with other people. From that point I started adding blackout blinds, locks on doors, light dimming features, extra security features. To see me having a threesome you would need to kick down my front door, then kick down my bedroom door all with an alarm going off.

    I'm not saying your wife will suddenly want a threesome because you add a few locks and blinds, but it does help to solve one worry at least.


    7: Religion: I can not help you much with this area, but what I do know is that actually the original Bible documents didn't actually say anything about 1 man and 1 women getting married, in fact the original Bible said a man could have as many wives as he wants. The Bible seemingly was not against group sex, I'm not even sure it was against homosexuals. But like many of us know, many years ago the kings and priests of the old world soon figured out it made more sense to say it should be 1 man and 1 women.

    Back then they needed soldiers, they needed people to fight in the armies, and the best way of doing that was to make sure every man had 1 women and that men wasn't homosexual, the babies that were born ended up with a spear in their hands 15 years later. They needed to breed an army so suddenly the part about men having multiple wives suddenly vanished.



    OVERALL.

    Hopefully this has given you a few ideas, but like stated in my original post if you end up trying this with your wife I'd expect some rough times from your wife after.

    Finding out what your wife would want is a key aspect, maybe she would feel comfy meeting a random guy and just having sex with him, or maybe she would want to meet a man and get to know him, become friends, build some trust, meet the perfect guy for you and her to play with first.


    One thing is for sure DO NOT SWING with people you know / friends / work mates / people who know your other friends


    Good luck

  12. #12

    Default Re: She says she's not interested ...

    Hi There.
    Thought I would chime in here. I have been in your wife's shoes and know all too well the excitement she is feeling. Sometimes the fantasy is all one needs to have a good time and be sexually aroused. From my perspective the reason I would become so aroused was the idea my partner was right there with me watching and participating exactly how I wanted him to. The actual experience will be different from her fantasy because the other man will throw in a whole different dynamic which unknown to your wife.
    We all know that the fantasy can sometimes be better than the actual experience because in our fantasies we get to control just exactly how things play out right down to what the other people say and do.
    After all is said and done, I think it is a very good sign that she is talking and fantasizing. Please take your time it will happen if it is meant to. Continue doing what you are doing but do not pressure her, just communicate and let her take the lead. I finally had a MFM and it was truthfully the most wonderful experience ever.

  13. #13

    Default Re: She says she's not interested ...

    Hi and thank you both S&M and firebird ... both very useful and helpful perspectives ... people are pretty cool here aren't they?!

    S&M there is so much to digest, so I'll have to revisit this a few times and ponder I think ... Talk and listen and understand ... one of the foundations of a successful marriage isn't it? And where the answer ultimately lies, whether it's the one I'd like or not! OR even somewhere in between - and this has been at the core of most of the messages on the board, hasn't it? I think we're pretty good like this, but one we need to keep working at ... and I especially need to try to understand where my wife is coming from ... there are multiple attractions and barriers really. How many are insurmountable (if any?) and how many are based on perceptions (from either of us really)?

    Therapy - my lovely wife isn't really at the point where she would think that it is worth involving someone else - since it's a desire that has started with me ... maybe though if she starts to be more actively tempted towards the lifestyle?? I can see its benefits.

    Porn is something that she has shown little active interest in - saying that a lot of it is unrealistic and a money-making scam often at the expense of women in need of money, drugs or with little power ... or even watching other people ... though we do both enjoy watching dramas with a lot of sexual undertones and passion ... e.g. she wouldn't throw Poldark or Jamie from "Outlander" out of bed for eating biscuits! So probably for her something more where she feels safe openly lusting after another man seems more up her street!

    Sex toys - she'd worry that the (now grown up and living elsewhere) kids might find them!and would have to be subtly introduced ... I freaked her out by my suggestion of getting a cucumber or big carrot out of the fridge once ... probably not one of my better thought out ideas ... would a woman really like a chilled vegetable up inside her??? (answers on a postcard please!) - the idea certainly didn't do it for her .. lol

    Her desires ... now I'm doing better on this one ... ! And we did have a bit of fun with a card game I made up with descriptions of six different guys (who I made up names for) ... one was me and the other 5 were other guys who I thought might have aspects that would appeal to her described ... She chose them randomly to be involved in a threesome - though had the option of rejecting and choosing a new card... now maybe playing that game again ... maybe even using some real swinger profiles from a site like fabswingers ... or having 8 cards where she could choose "This one" or "This one"? narrowing down to one winning guy ... might be something she'd have some fun with??!

    We've got the home security thing sorted ... we close the curtains and lock the door with a key inserted ... just in case one of the kids decides to come home and walk in on us "In flagrante delicto" ... so our play is secure ... at least at this fantasy level ... if we did involve someone else, I imagine that she would feel much safer in a hotel room ... though we can discuss that nearer the time ...

    Religion - I've been reading about this and described what I found re concubines to her ... she's sceptical but hasn't ruled it out ... we have a mystery person called "the man in the cupboard" that we both refer to on occasions when another (imaginary) guy plays with us ... he lives in the cupboard in our bedroom and exists just to pleasure my wife ...

    And that's really the point of it all ... the thing that turns me on most about sex is when she starts to lose herself in ecstasy and I would LOVE to see and feel what it would be like if another guy was able to do that to her ... we were kissing passionately for ages the other night and my cock was resting just on her pussy lips ... we were completely close in every way and I was able to tell her how much I'd love to feel her responses to another guy entering her from behind ... a strange cock exploring her ... and that's what I desire ... I'm getting excited just remembering and typing this!!

    Mmmmm - to have two guys (including me!) completely focused on pleasuring her at once - skin on skin ... that's why I would love us to have a threesome ... is the reality like that?? I guess it's always going to be different as you say, firebird though!

    And firebird - your message was such a lovely one ... yes the reality and fantasy can differ - but I hope that there'd be things about the reality that exceed expectations ... though it would definitely have to be a guy she had chosen and fancied!! What was the thing that tipped the balance in going from fantasy to reality for you?

  14. #14

    Default Re: She says she's not interested ...

    Well, Al, you are for sure keeping your sense of humor alive about the whole process, and that has to be a good thing. It is obvious to me now that you are certainly doing your homework, and taking the time to think things out carefully (most of the time anyway, there are always gaps somewhere, in every "perfect plan"). (Excellent profile page here, BTW.)
    :-)
    Keep up the good fun.
    Hopefully in this case patience will have its reward.
    Obviously, in the end, it is all up to her.

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.”
    ― Catherine Aird (ref)

    Just Kidding.

    But really...
    If you can get her to a meet & greet, a club, this forum (this thread?), or some other venue where she could hear some "good examples", especially some positive testimonials (one in this thread already) from women who have walked the same path, that may help.... You have done an excellent job articulating her reluctance ("not that there's anything wrong with that" ref), and it is all perfectly understandable.

    The LS can be all over the map sometimes, just like the rest of life. Sometimes it sounds simple, sometimes unbelievably complicated. One thing for sure: It is not a do-all-end-all, it is just recreation... or in some cases, re-creation.

    Communication is the key, and it seems you have a good handle on that.

    Enjoy!

    :-D
    "I ride my bicycle to ride my bicycle."

  15. #15

    Default Re: She says she's not interested ...

    Thank you luv2 - really lovely to hear what you had to say about us and our situation!

    My wife tends to have really busy weekday nights with work then we have a bit more chilling time on the weekends ... so hopefully in the next week or two I can start showing her some of the threads in here ... maybe the ones on religion might be a good place to start??

    And we'll have to see where we go from there I guess All of the advice and perspectives have been very helpful - so thank you .. and any more thoughts obviously very welcome too!

  16. #16

    Default Re: She says she's not interested ...

    Quote Originally Posted by nakedal View Post
    Hi and thank you both S&M and firebird ... both very useful and helpful perspectives ... people are pretty cool here aren't they?!

    S&M there is so much to digest, so I'll have to revisit this a few times and ponder I think ... Talk and listen and understand ... one of the foundations of a successful marriage isn't it? And where the answer ultimately lies, whether it's the one I'd like or not! OR even somewhere in between - and this has been at the core of most of the messages on the board, hasn't it? I think we're pretty good like this, but one we need to keep working at ... and I especially need to try to understand where my wife is coming from ... there are multiple attractions and barriers really. How many are insurmountable (if any?) and how many are based on perceptions (from either of us really)?

    Therapy - my lovely wife isn't really at the point where she would think that it is worth involving someone else - since it's a desire that has started with me ... maybe though if she starts to be more actively tempted towards the lifestyle?? I can see its benefits.

    Porn is something that she has shown little active interest in - saying that a lot of it is unrealistic and a money-making scam often at the expense of women in need of money, drugs or with little power ... or even watching other people ... though we do both enjoy watching dramas with a lot of sexual undertones and passion ... e.g. she wouldn't throw Poldark or Jamie from "Outlander" out of bed for eating biscuits! So probably for her something more where she feels safe openly lusting after another man seems more up her street!

    Sex toys - she'd worry that the (now grown up and living elsewhere) kids might find them!and would have to be subtly introduced ... I freaked her out by my suggestion of getting a cucumber or big carrot out of the fridge once ... probably not one of my better thought out ideas ... would a woman really like a chilled vegetable up inside her??? (answers on a postcard please!) - the idea certainly didn't do it for her .. lol

    Her desires ... now I'm doing better on this one ... ! And we did have a bit of fun with a card game I made up with descriptions of six different guys (who I made up names for) ... one was me and the other 5 were other guys who I thought might have aspects that would appeal to her described ... She chose them randomly to be involved in a threesome - though had the option of rejecting and choosing a new card... now maybe playing that game again ... maybe even using some real swinger profiles from a site like fabswingers ... or having 8 cards where she could choose "This one" or "This one"? narrowing down to one winning guy ... might be something she'd have some fun with??!

    We've got the home security thing sorted ... we close the curtains and lock the door with a key inserted ... just in case one of the kids decides to come home and walk in on us "In flagrante delicto" ... so our play is secure ... at least at this fantasy level ... if we did involve someone else, I imagine that she would feel much safer in a hotel room ... though we can discuss that nearer the time ...

    Religion - I've been reading about this and described what I found re concubines to her ... she's sceptical but hasn't ruled it out ... we have a mystery person called "the man in the cupboard" that we both refer to on occasions when another (imaginary) guy plays with us ... he lives in the cupboard in our bedroom and exists just to pleasure my wife ...

    And that's really the point of it all ... the thing that turns me on most about sex is when she starts to lose herself in ecstasy and I would LOVE to see and feel what it would be like if another guy was able to do that to her ... we were kissing passionately for ages the other night and my cock was resting just on her pussy lips ... we were completely close in every way and I was able to tell her how much I'd love to feel her responses to another guy entering her from behind ... a strange cock exploring her ... and that's what I desire ... I'm getting excited just remembering and typing this!!

    Mmmmm - to have two guys (including me!) completely focused on pleasuring her at once - skin on skin ... that's why I would love us to have a threesome ... is the reality like that?? I guess it's always going to be different as you say, firebird though!

    And firebird - your message was such a lovely one ... yes the reality and fantasy can differ - but I hope that there'd be things about the reality that exceed expectations ... though it would definitely have to be a guy she had chosen and fancied!! What was the thing that tipped the balance in going from fantasy to reality for you?
    The tipping balance for me was picking out the man I wanted to be with on my own. We joined AFF and originally my partner would say... look at who is interested. It wasn't until I did the searching and the chatting that I became invested and interested. My partner was amazing at making the whole experience so wonderful. The night we were to get together with the fellow I chose, my bf took me to dinner, took me shopping and then we went dancing with the fellow I chose, it was truly a fantastic night because my partner made me feel like a princess. I got dressed all sexy and felt on top of the world. The man I chose was fellow it was my first mmf and I think that helped with his gentle approach. A night I will never forget.

  17. #17

    Default Re: She says she's not interested ...

    Hey thanks firebird ... When we've spoken about it, she has said she doesn't want just anybody ... it would have to be somebody she fancies a lot I am sure ... while she doesn't like talking about other men in front of me often, I've got some idea of her types ... and I'd love her to go through the process of vetting men ...

    Several steps away - and as before we may never get there ... but it has to be more than just my thing for it to happen and for it to actually work!

    Good luck on your continuing journey with this and thanks again for the input


  18. #18

    Default Re: She says she's not interested ...

    Nakedal,
    I can relate to a lot of your posts. I don't want to be a downer, but the lifestyle may not be for everyone. My wife and I have been together for 27 years and I have tried many of the things suggested and it is just something that she is not interested in. Like your wife, my wife really gets excited about threesome talk, she loves it when we play and we use a large Rabbit vibrator as a "Third" person. Many times she will only be able to come when I talk dirty to her about me watching her having sex with someone else. However, that is as far as it goes. She claims that she does not have any sexual fantasies, and the only time she thinks about it is when we are in the middle of having sex. We have purchased a number of sex toys, and we keep them in a box up in our closet away from our kids when they were younger. (Take your wife to a high end sex toy shop, that can be a fun evening).

    We have gone to a number of swinger clubs, she loves the vibe and loves to go dancing and people watch. We have gone to Desire in Mexico 4 times, and are going again in January. We have a blast there, he people are super friendly. She loves laying out and swimming naked. Once again, she loves to dance, and I get to see her in sexy clothes that she would never wear anywhere else. We have been propositioned a number of times, but she is not interested at all. So we go, we watch, and we have our fantasy and enjoy each other. As much as I would enjoy seeing her with someone else, I believe it will never happen.

  19. #19

    Default Re: She says she's not interested ...

    For the record, I wish I could like your post because of what happened, not what isn't going to happen...
    If you donít have to lie about sex, you donít have to lie about anything. - John Williamson

  20. #20

    Default Re: She says she's not interested ...

    Quote Originally Posted by LKNcouple View Post
    Nakedal,
    I can relate to a lot of your posts. I don't want to be a downer, but the lifestyle may not be for everyone. My wife and I have been together for 27 years and I have tried many of the things suggested and it is just something that she is not interested in. Like your wife, my wife really gets excited about threesome talk, she loves it when we play and we use a large Rabbit vibrator as a "Third" person. Many times she will only be able to come when I talk dirty to her about me watching her having sex with someone else. However, that is as far as it goes. She claims that she does not have any sexual fantasies, and the only time she thinks about it is when we are in the middle of having sex. We have purchased a number of sex toys, and we keep them in a box up in our closet away from our kids when they were younger. (Take your wife to a high end sex toy shop, that can be a fun evening).

    We have gone to a number of swinger clubs, she loves the vibe and loves to go dancing and people watch. We have gone to Desire in Mexico 4 times, and are going again in January. We have a blast there, he people are super friendly. She loves laying out and swimming naked. Once again, she loves to dance, and I get to see her in sexy clothes that she would never wear anywhere else. We have been propositioned a number of times, but she is not interested at all. So we go, we watch, and we have our fantasy and enjoy each other. As much as I would enjoy seeing her with someone else, I believe it will never happen.
    Hey that's OK ... I want real answers so this is fine ... People are different aren't they? We were talking about an extra guy last night while naked and tangled up on the sofa ... She had one leg draped over one of mine and I was playing with that leg and occasionally visiting her pussy ... you know the early part of foreplay. I told her how i'd love for her to have her other leg draped over another guy's naked leg and played with while I was enjoying this one ...

    It sort of went from there ... she was getting wetter and later when I was on top we were talking about her having her "Man in the cupboard" ... and how I'd love this ... and for her to be a connoisseur of cocks ... she objected saying that would make her a tart ... and I suggested that it wouldn't ... they'd be more of an occasional concubine and how really we could just start by having the two of us stimulating e.g. her legs at once and see how she enjoyed it ... when I pretended to be the "man in the cupboard" entering her I said here comes your second ever cock ... then she surprised me and suggested that for all I knew she could have had 37 cocks (Random number ... or is it?!! hehe) ...

    I explained how what excites me about it would be me being involved and seeing, hearing and feeling her reactions to another guy playing with her then maybe even entering her while I was kissing, caressing, playing with her too ... her being turned on is truly the most exciting thing about sex for me ... and how I'd love to see her being right to the edge of being overwhelmed by two guys ... and seeing her as the Queen Bee. ... with two guys totally at her disposal and for her pleasure ...

    I know she liked it in the moment ... and another part of her resists it ... and this comes back to your post LKN ... I guess each person is different ... some may be turned on just in fantasy (though feel conflicted) ... others may push the boundaries further (like you guys) ... while others may actually one day just dive in despite the objections .. maybe a bit like me when I waited my turn for my first parachute jump - one part of me saying "jump into the big beyond" and another freezing me to the spot!

    Now I DID that parachute jump (And a couple more another time) ... so I'm just hoping that my extremely sexy wife is one of those who thinks "what the heck" and gives it all a go! Even if she doesn't what we're doing now is certainly a lot of fun too

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