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  1. #26

    Default Re: The good, the bad, and the ugly



    There, that's taken care of, lets get back to the topic at hand.
    If you donít have to lie about sex, you donít have to lie about anything. - John Williamson

  2. #27

    Default Re: The good, the bad, and the ugly

    PaDoc, we weren't saying that it matter, we were just curious about how that would go down in that environment. We would still call them out regardless of what other people think, and support someone else calling out on such a serious situation.
    We posed the question because, at this point, we are still standing around the pool and waiting (or deciding) to dip our toes in, so we don't have much LS experience, especially when it comes to LS House Parties.

    We agree with G couple, back to the topic at hand.

  3. #28

    Default Re: The good, the bad, and the ugly

    I would have killed the motherfucker.
    We are so sorry this happened to you.

  4. #29
    FunintheSnow
    Guest FunintheSnow's Avatar

    Default Re: The good, the bad, and the ugly

    Glad you find misinformation about rape so amusing, GoldCoCouple.

    ScaredStiff, I have no interest in you personally. I object to the misinformation you insist on spreading. If women think that something that IS rape "doesn't count" as rape, they will be less likely to report it and the rapist will go on to repeat the crime. If men think that something that IS rape "doesn't count" as rape, they are more likely to do it. You appear determined to bring about both these circumstances.

    I spent three years in the UK at uni. I also spent five minutes Googling the current law. If you'd done the same, you'd find this:

    Rape and consent: What you need to know before you have sex | The Independent.

    The article includes this information:

    'According to section 74 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003, someone consents when she or he "agrees by choice…and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice."

    That’s a clear definition.

    And there are some equally clear examples of when someone doesn’t have "freedom" or "capacity" to agree by choice or to "consent".

    For example: if someone is under the age of 16, they don’t legally have the capacity to consent to sex. If someone is asleep or unconscious, they don’t have the capacity to consent. If they’ve been kidnapped or held against their will, they don’t have the freedom to consent.'

    But don't worry, I won't be around either to annoy you or to amuse GoldCoCouple anymore. I have no interest in participating in a site where posts that indirectly encourage rape are tolerated and objections are slighted by well-established members.

  5. #30

    Default Re: The good, the bad, and the ugly

    When rape is excused, marginalized, or normalized it furthers rape culture and makes it that much more difficult for women (and men) to be taken seriously when they do report it. That includes ignorance regarding rape and sexual fantasies making rape erotic. Rape is not erotic or sexy; it is terrifying and violent.

    Asking a rapist to use a condom to protect against disease does not equal consent. If the rapist refuses and does not use a condom, would it still be consent? No, that's ridiculous, that means the rapist can choose whether or not it is rape by whether or not he complies with the request to use a condom.

  6. #31

    Default Re: The good, the bad, and the ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by FunintheSnow View Post
    Glad you find misinformation about rape so amusing, GoldCoCouple.

    ScaredStiff, I have no interest in you personally. I object to the misinformation you insist on spreading. If women think that something that IS rape "doesn't count" as rape, they will be less likely to report it and the rapist will go on to repeat the crime. If men think that something that IS rape "doesn't count" as rape, they are more likely to do it. You appear determined to bring about both these circumstances.

    I spent three years in the UK at uni. I also spent five minutes Googling the current law. If you'd done the same, you'd find this:

    Rape and consent: What you need to know before you have sex | The Independent.

    The article includes this information:

    'According to section 74 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003, someone consents when she or he "agrees by choice…and has the freedom and capacity to make that choice."

    That’s a clear definition.

    And there are some equally clear examples of when someone doesn’t have "freedom" or "capacity" to agree by choice or to "consent".

    For example: if someone is under the age of 16, they don’t legally have the capacity to consent to sex. If someone is asleep or unconscious, they don’t have the capacity to consent. If they’ve been kidnapped or held against their will, they don’t have the freedom to consent.'

    But don't worry, I won't be around either to annoy you or to amuse GoldCoCouple anymore. I have no interest in participating in a site where posts that indirectly encourage rape are tolerated and objections are slighted by well-established members.
    I take offense to your post

    To suggest I am encouraging rape is ridiculous

    If you really are leaving the site , good riddance

  7. #32

    Default Re: The good, the bad, and the ugly

    This is obviously a very sensitive subject, as it should be. But, one only has to read the headlines to know that if the justice system and society at large hasn't yet come with a hard and fast black and white answer that gets interpreted the same by every single person each and every time, then I don't think we are going to do it here on a swingers message board either.

    This topic is germane to situation the original poster sought input on, so we have let this discussion continue further than we normally might have even though it is obvious that tempers are rising. Germane doesn't mean all-consuming though, so if anyone wants to focus on talking about "What is rape in a swinging context?" then go start a thread on the subject, and let's all give the original poster the courtesy of not using her difficult situation and post as a continuing opportunity to do some online lawyering back and forth and in the process everyone just getting madder and madder that they can't convince the others to see things the way they are seeing them...the internet is full of that, but this site isn't, so let's keep it that way.
    Not all those who wander are lost

  8. #33

    Default Re: The good, the bad, and the ugly

    This was exactly my intention with my first comment on this post, the original thread was asking for help with moving on after a bad experience, the question wasn't "is this rape".
    So when I see every post saying the same thing , that it is rape, I felt the original posters situation was being worsened by the gravity and severity of what has happened, and harder to move on.
    She is not seeking justice through the legal system , she is looking for advice and help from people who may have had a similar experience.
    I think we can say beyond doubt that we all feel deep sympathy for the lady in question.

    I'm sorry that my posts have caused offense, never my intention.


  9. #34

    Default Re: The good, the bad, and the ugly

    Yes, this topic is sensitive. And yes, it took on a direction that I never intended. My purpose was to search for someone who had been through a similar situation and get advice. I did get some good advice about therapy and stepping out of LS for a while (or maybe forever), and especially validation that it wasn't my fault (as that small voice.inside still screams that I could have done more to fight him off).

    I do not think anyone was marginalizing or condoning the guy's behavior.

    Whether or not it met legal requirements for rape is not really the issue. I am not dragging my family into a he said/she said legal battle. I have warned the people I know and cannot take on the responsibility of ruining my life even further by taking this into a court room, with no real evidence besides my memory and account of things.

  10. #35

    Default Re: The good, the bad, and the ugly

    As with any kind of bad experience, the gift of hindsight can be a torturous thing that leaves us asking questions like "should I have done this" or "if only I hadn't done that", try not to beat yourself up over things you could have or shouldn't have done, that other man was the problem and without him there was no issue. You have been a victim here but if you do venture into the lifestyle again maybe put more things in place to ensure your safety. Whether that's smaller meets with people you trust or maybe more social time to get to know other couples better, I'm guessing you both have ideas on what you might do differently , if swinging is something you've both enjoyed together then don't let that horrible man rob you of that , but also take as long as you need

  11. #36

    Default Re: The good, the bad, and the ugly

    The question originally asked wasn't "is this rape", but someone wanting advice and input about something that happened to them.

    At this point, I do not think it matters if you call it rape or a bad decision or whatever other label you want to put on it. The guy should have listened the first time I said no. And certainly by the third and fourth times I said no, he knew I was not consenting.
    Whether or not it met legal requirements for rape is not really the issue.
    Personally, I would have killed the guy as well, but that wasn't the question asked either. Instead, we were trying to give advice to someone asking for advice, not if they were raped or not. I don't find ANYTHING about rape 'amusing'. It disgusts me. However, there are also a large number of rapes that go unreported because people don't want to have the stigma applied to them. This wasn't and isn't a conversation about rape, it's about someone who had something very bad happen to them and wanting to find help, support and answers. That's what we are trying to provide to anyone and everyone who comes here. If we offended you by not promoting your agenda, we apologize. In the mean time, I would rather keep this thread directed to offering support, advise and sympathy to someone that was hurt by the actions of another. I don't feel that this needs to be addressed again.

    Now, back to the topic at hand. We continue to offer Girlygirl any help that we can. Our best wishes are with you.
    If you donít have to lie about sex, you donít have to lie about anything. - John Williamson

  12. #37

    Default Re: The good, the bad, and the ugly

    Our good was her never ending sexual experiences... doing stuff we would never do at home. Bad was being preyed on by a predator at a club and ugly was the number of "much older" people at a party we attended once. They were not only older, but super overweight and many smelled. No action that nite.

  13. #38

    Default Re: The good, the bad, and the ugly

    Quote Originally Posted by Girlygirl View Post
    First, we have been swinging for 5 years and NEVER had such an experience before. We go to 2-3 parties a year (and don't always play at each party or sometimes just play with each other at the party), and have encounters maybe once every 3-4 months, usually with the same FWB.

    I had a situation at a party where there were only a few couples (like 3-4) who attended this party. We attended our first party at this place about 6 months prior and there were probably about 20-25 couples then. At the first party, Mr. Host was a bit forward with me, saying he wanted to get me in the bedroom and telling me how beautiful I was. He wouldn't let it go. I wasn't interested because he seemed to be having sex with several ladies at the party and his compliments seemed so shallow and designed to just get me to go to bed with him.

    Before we got to the most recent party (which the couple had regularly, but only our second time to go), I told my husband not to leave me in the room alone with Mr. Host because I did not want to be pressured by him. We were hanging outside with the other couples. I went inside to go to the bathroom. When I walked out of the bathroom, Mr. Host grabbed my hand and said he wanted to show me something. He pulled me into a bedroom and locked the door. I told him "no" and "not now". He proceeded to start undressing me. Again, I said no and tried to push his hand away and rezip my pants. He kept grabbing my hands and holding them behind my back, continuing to undress me. At some point, I finally said "at least use a condom". He pushed me on the bed, held me down with his hand on my jaw and then on my neck. I am not into being a submissive (or any role play). He had this glazed look and started saying nasty things to me, like "Tell me you want me, bitch." And "Tell me you like it hard, bitch." And "Whore, beg me for it." I was afraid and decided the best thing was to just go along with it and get it over with. I did as he said, half afraid that he might just smack me (which he didn't in the face, but did in the rear and I do not like being spanked). He came with me on my back. After I thought he was done, I got up to grab my clothes, and he pushed me back onto the bed where I was bent over. He came again, the whole time telling me what a nice ass I had, and spanking it, even after I asked him to stop. I felt humiliated, like a piece of trash. I hated myself for not being more forceful in my "no". I had tried to be nice since he was the host when I first said, "Not now". And worst of all, I asked myself, "What did you expect?" I knew he was trouble and fell for the "let me show you something." I've been in this LS for a while and should not have been so stupidly naive.

    When the ordeal was over and I got up to get dressed the second time, I noticed the used condom on the night stand. He told me what a beautiful ass I had and how good the sex was. I just grabbed my clothes and ran to the bathroom. I got dressed and cried. I finally gained composure and went outside. My husband was talking to a couple, so I did not immediately tell him what happened. But within 5 minutes, he was asking what was wrong. I whispered to him a shortened version of what happened. By then, the host was doing another girl in the same bedroom. We left. My husband called Mrs. Host (he did not have Mr. Host's phone number), who only said she was sorry. My husband said I should have screamed if I needed to. I guess I was trying to be polite and not make a scene. Shortly thereafter, their profile said they were taking a break from the lifestyle (some other FWB told us, as we had blocked them).

    I do not know if he had the condom on the whole time, or if Mr. Host conveniently took it off prior to finishing up. Two months after the party, I thought I had a yeast infection. Turns out it was chlamydia and gonorrhea. I cannot tell you if the std's were spread with or without using a condom. The only STD I've ever had was many years ago and was HPV (not the genital warts type, but the "linked to cancer" type) that was likely from when I was 19, which is before the monogamous relationship with my husband. My husband and I have been monogamous with each other for 20 years before diving into swinging.

    At this point, I do not know if I want to return to swinging. We are clean. I know my husband enjoys swinging, and I like seeing my husband pleased. He's a little more casual about the STDs, saying that it happens. To me, it's a bigger deal. I am glad it wasn't HIV or Hepatitis. I thought we were careful (condoms) and selective. I do not KNOW for certain if the STD came from Mr. Host. We do not have their contact info anymore. I NEVER want to be in a position where I feel helpless and afraid of the guy on top of me. I can't get over feeling like I have no reason to complain...I mean, I DO choose to have sex with other men. If I so willingly give my body over to other men, why should it bother me that someone took advantage of me? I hate drama, and part of me wants to forget it and stop bringing up the drama internally.

    Has anyone ever had a similar experience? If so, how did you get over it?
    Firstly, I am so sorry you experienced this.

    I am a survivor of rape. I know the feelings you are having. I half heartedly tried to stop my rapist but fear was my main driver and I felt safer to just go along then to stand up for myself.

    No matter how you label it, it was wrong. You and your rights were violated and you are going to need some time, love, and support to make peace with what happened.

    I have been sexually assaulted by four different parties. The first my grandfather as a toddler and young child, the second my stepfather as a young teenager, the third my cousin as a teenager and the fourth by a group of men as a young adult. I have seekes justice for the rape by my stepfather. The court process was the hardest thing I ever had to do and he even plead guilty. I never bothered with anyone else because it was just so hard emotionally and I was so fragile for so many years.

    The assault as a young adult was fueled by alcohol. I was too drunk to consent. I ended up in a situation I would have never agreed to otherwise and I struggled for years blaming myself. But I know in my heart it was wrong. They knew it was wrong too as some things happened after to protect themselves.

    I hope the best for you and much healing. Iíd stay away from swinging for now. Sex was a big trigger for me. Iíd have flashbacks all the time. Iíd think it would be best to be with your husband if something like that were to happen for you.

    Feel free to contact me with any questions. I am an open book!

  14. #39

    Default Re: The good, the bad, and the ugly

    If my wife would have asked me to stay close and keep an eye on her that would have been my number 1 mission. The time it took for her to become a rape victim is way longer than she should have taken to go to the bathroom. He carries nearly as much responsibility as the predator. Plus his casual attitude about the STD is unbelievable

  15. #40

    Default Re: The good, the bad, and the ugly

    So my 2cents worth here - Yes he raped you - So be pissed off as much as you want ( at him only )

    This last bit of your post tells you alot - lets have a look at it.
    "I can't get over feeling like I have no reason to complain...I mean, I DO choose to have sex with other men." Yes and your own words say what - YOU CHOOSE - not you let men choose to have sex with you with out any input or refusal by you.

    "If I so willingly give my body over to other men, why should it bother me that someone took advantage of me?" Because when you do give your body over its YOUR CHOICE to do so - not just there's

    " I hate drama, and part of me wants to forget it and stop bringing up the drama internally." Look the "drama" is real and you need to go though the emotions of being at the very lest used ( and at worst raped )

    Many years ago one of my kids who was about 5, went to a family party with her friends and their parents - the parents had the kids all in one room and set them to bed at about 8:30 at night - at around 11pm some pedo went into the room and abused her orally - she was sacred but told the older girls once this pig had left the room ( woke her up and told her ) the older girl got the whole lot of the kids out and to the parents and told the mom - stunned and upset the mom said they needed to leave and half way home told her husband what had happened, drunk and full of rage he went back and nearly kill the pig - we were awoken by the police asking us to come to the station and then found out what had happened .

    Any way my point is the husband (our friend ) that took our girl with his and that had done everything he thought was right to keep them safe felt like he was to blame because they were in his care. - Well when i got to see him in the morning he was full of tears and was saying sorry to myself for letting it happen - I told him this and it is true for you as well - He did the same as i have done when his kids where with us = He is not to blame the sick mind of one man only is to blame and he must tell himself every time that it comes to his mind ( that it was some how partly his fault )

    Just as one man thought he could do that to you as well - it was never your fault - be pissed at him if it helps tell the world if that helps but never say to your self again that some how it was your fault because that is just not true.

    Now that happened 22 years ago and every school holiday i still find myself shaking and upset - so it takes time for everyone.
    "

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