Sexual Blackmail

Can anyone give me advice on what to do in this situation. We started seeing this couple several months ago, and grew very attached. It has turned from being more Swing to Polyamory in the past month, and now the other man wants to have one on one sex with my wife, most likely in a closed door situation, for he will not play with her at all when I am present.

When we first met this couple, we told them, my wife was Bi, and only wanted to play with his woman. Everything progressed well at first, and I also had opprotunities to have sex with his wife. I did not, and I repeat, NOT demand anything, and was only offered this by him. We have enjoyed several FMF, as well as a couple FM with me and his wife, while they watched. Nothing happened closed door.

Now, this other couple is demanding that My Wife have a sexual relationship with him. I have been told (by his wife) that the fun will stop, and she will not have sex with us again if my wife does not put out. I am open to the idea of my wife having sex with another man, so long as it is what she wants, in a safe situation, with someone we know well. I am not Jealous of any pleasure she may get, so long as it is open door, and everyone is involved.

Their attitude is for me to dominate her, and make her have sex with him, or any sex from this point on will stop.

We have grown very attached to this couple, and they are super fun to be with. My wife has no interest in having sex with him. As you can imagine, there are more factors involved, like our age differences, body shapes, sexual experiences, attitudes towards sex, as well as rough vs sensual sex. Things are not as cut and dry as this one point.

She is not attracted to him. She constantly is telling me that she does not want to have sex with him.

He also does things that make me suspicous of his intentions. He had a closed door encounter at a party this past weekend. I trusted him to follow his own rules, about everyone being involved in any sex. All of us had been drinking alot, and we all were very intoxicated. I did not find out until the next day that he had made my wife have a g sopt orgasm, and made her cum / squirt 4 times, and had eaten her pussy. Damn, I wish I could have been there. I would loved to have watched. I did not know of the g sopt trick. He is definately more experienced, and knows alot more than me. This G Spot trick is just that, a trick, and has beed said to cause women to have emotions for men they are not attracted to.

All of this seems underhanded, and selfish. I should have been involved. When I asked her how all of this could have happened, she said that she could not stop him.

I never expected him to pull a rabbit out of the hat like this in a closed door situation. The trust I gave him has been somewhat shattered, to the point of having a panic attack, another new trick my body has never had. What to do now?

I would end things with this couple. It's just too messy and involved for me. If they are giving you panic attacks, is it really worth it to stick it out?

~SS

If you aren't interested and your wife isn't interested, I'd cut ties and RUN like hell. They can't MAKE you do anything that you don't want to do. If he (and she)can't follow the rules you you and your wife have set, then to hell with them.

Not only that, but other than not having sex with the two of you, what's the blackmail? There are plenty of other people that swing other than this couple, you just have to get out there and find them. It sounds like you'd be better off without them. Good Luck.

Jenn

I agree with the others. You should run like hell. Seems to be way too much drama, and a lack of respect from them. Plenty of other people out there to enjoy, so Run Forrest Run.

The trust I gave him has been somewhat shattered, to the point of having a panic attack,

Trust has been SOMEWHAT shattered. Dude there is not somewhat about it.

He disrespected your bounderies, he disrespected your wife.

Did your wife what to take part in this act? Did she say no? Was she frightened?

If she answers yes to one or all of these. WAKE UP man your wife was violated.

End of story.

Your friend,

Prettylady

Damn, I wish I could have been there. I would loved to have watched.

All of this seems underhanded, and selfish. I should have been involved. When I asked her how all of this could have happened, she said that she could not stop him.

Read this again, I am discusted. You state that your wife said she couldn't stop him and your pissed that you didn't get to watch????

I don't get it. your wife was violated and you are upset????

Do you not see were the problem really is.

If I was harsh please let me know. Perhaps I am misunderstanding, God knows, I hope I am.

Prettylady

Just stop...your wife is sending you a strong NO signal! Cut and run now!

You only need use two words to that couple. The first starts in "f" etc.

They don't deserve any more consideration than that given their attempts to coerce you both.

CB

Both of us care about this couple, and have spent alot of time with their family. We do care about how they feel, and do want to be friends. We have had alot of fun times. This is the first situation we have been in with a aggressive couple. I have not pushed my wife into anything, I have always given her the option to do what she wants, for I do when we are with other women. We have soft swapped, and run around the house naked, she sits on his lap, we have fun, and do fun soft swap stuff together. I can not put all of the blame on her, him, or myself. If I had to guess why she allowed him to toutch her, it was to try and preserve the friendship. This is one of the issues we are having. If she does not put out, they probably will not be willing to keep being friends. We are alot younger than them. I know this does not matter much to most, but they are more dominant in this foursome than us.

As to answer more of your questions about her participation, she said that she just laid there.

I am sure it was different in his eyes. She probably would not tell me even if things were more. She wanted everybody to have a good evening, and the stress of knowing that the good time could end because she was not willing to participate forced her to try, as well as made me let it happen.

You don't 'force' your friends to have sex with you.

Sorry but they are not your friends.

I could understand them saying something like they would stop playing until she is ready for full swap or something, but trying to get you to force her to do something is just wrong.

She is not attracted to him. She constantly is telling me that she does not want to have sex with him.

This says it all.......listen to her

Sounds like he wants to dominate her without you around. And it took her getting drunk before she'd let him touch her I'd definately cut and run with this couple, as others have said. Don't ever put up with another couple that doesn't respect your boundaries.....which says they don't respect you.

As far as the G-spot squirting thing. Plenty of info on the net to guide you in giving her one on your own Just need to do a little homework and practice.

Good luck......and ditch the couple.

Brett

Trust your gut and end it before it gets any worse. You named this thread "sexual blackmail" nothing in that title or the thread leads me to believe that you have any reason to continue this relationship under these circumstances. WHy would you even consider it?

We had a very similar situation, except that, to demonstrate the difference between a good, respectful relationship, between consenting adults, and, what seems to be transpiring in your situation, when my g/f expressed that she wasn't yet comfortable with having intercourse with the other guy, he respected the boundaries.

We continued to be friends, and, though I didn't avail myself of the opportunity to have sex with his wife, any longer, the offer still was available.

The "girls" played, a few more times (before his untimely, unfortunate passing), and, never was there felt to be any undue pressure to do anything that anyone was uncomfortable with.

Now, to be honest, I can place myself in the other, older gentleman's shoes, in the sense that we've, also, run into couples that want to play w/her, but not, necessarily, w/me. She's attractive. I understand that, and, accept that that situation is, more or less, to be anticipated, if not, expected.

To this point, she has not wanted to play, w/o me, or, with another guy. If, and/or, when such occasion occurs, I'm hoping that I'm able to be mature enough to accept that, in this lifestyle, one is going to have awesome, excellent experiences, that'll never be duplicated in life, and, I've been allowed other women, as a result of our participation, so, if/when it's her turn, I'll be able to take it in stride.

We are not considering keeping up this relationship with this other couple. I do not want to be weak and say that I need your help in getting me out of this situation, for it will end, and I have to break the news to them soon.

This forum is helping me with alot of positive reinforcement, from cool people, that are kind, and know more about this lifestyle than we do, and know how good it can be. Even if you say I am stupid, and need to wake up, I know the only reason you are posting it is because you do care.

We had never been put in that situation before, and the good time seemed like it was worth it. I know all of you are correct, it is not. Thanks.

You are making the right choice to get out of it. This really isnt much of a freindship if they are trying to make you do something you dont want or taking advatage over someone who is drunk. You are being used by them and no good can come of it. There are so many other decent people out there. Just keep looking and you will find a couple who you not only click with but has full respect for you and your wife. Best of luck to you!!

I am glad to here you are leaving this couple.

I may have been harsh on you, but your wife sounds like she needs you to help protect her. Not that she is weak, I am a black belt in karate and I fight internationally, so physically I can take care of myself, but this is different, I need my Dog to help protect me. (Dog being of the two legged variety, NOT four. Yes this question was asked of me.) :rollseyes

You may care for them but I question how much he cares for you.

You can get your answers here. I know I have asked them. I got strait forward answers, not info sugar coated, real answers.

Just ask away, someone will know the answers

Your friend,

Prettylady

Your wife has got to start taking some responsiblity for herself. It is easy to say 'i just laid there' or 'i didn't want to ruin anyone's good time.' What about what she wants. Honestly, I say this so many times...swinging is about both of you having fun.. and if you are not having fun...WHY they HECK are you doing it.

Break it off with this couple and then set down some rules..number one being NO ONE takes one for the team.

Good luck

I guess answers that seem, to the rest of us, to be cut and dry are much more complicated to those who are actually involved - especially emotionally. To me the evidence is clear: there is sexual blackmail going on, and on at least one occasion the wife was violated against her will by the other man (oh, and having an orgasm, squirting or not, is entirely irrelevant). The answer is clear - cease all activity with this domineering, thoughtless couple. Listen to your wife's needs. Communicate. Do not let your selfish needs for "sexual fun" get in the way of doing the right thing.

I know now how it feels to have had my arm twisted so far, it doesn't hurt.

We have written them a letter, and explained our position, and hopefully they are descent enough to just let the past be just that. A unfortunate swinger situation. I have no bad feelings towards them, and I hope they can deal with this like adults.

I received a phone call just now. Did not answer it, let it go to Voice Mail. they said,

If we did not want to have sex anymore, if we still wanted to be friends.

I just do not see this to be an option for us.

We can not trust them to not try and manipulate or hurt us.

They have called my phone three times in the last 10 min. I am scared out of my mind. No more Polyamous relationships for us. Fatal attraction sux.

That is weird.

Stay strong. you have friends here.

Your friend,

Prettylady.

Not to be a pain, or to make you worry anymore than you are now;but you need to document the calls, number date and time...at some point if they do not get the hint, you may have to take legal action. Just take a peice of paper and make notes. If you get any indication of a hostile call, keep the recording...and I do mean any indication, raised voices etc.

It is sad that you have run into someone like this early on. It sure will help you establish good ground rules for the future. Hang in, it will get better and you will meet people who will respect your wishes and not attempt to bend or break them!

It is apparant you have made your position clear, and that you would be willing to be friends but no longer swing with them. They in turn made their position clear. They will not be friends without the benefits. Bottom line, I would say you all are no longer friends. Of course, I don't believe they were friends to begin with. Friends don't manipulate and blackmail, nor do they make their so called friends "afraid". You have done the right thing.

You say they called you three times in ten minutes. This borders on harassment if it is causing you fear. I would follow JP51's advice. Harassment is illegal.

Let this situation roll off your shoulders, there are many wonderful people in this lifestyle. And do not be a stranger here, there are many wonderful and supportive people here as well. I hope it all works well for you.

I am have a different take on this. I know that some of you will not agree with me and that is ok. I also expect to be flamed a bit by what I am going to say……….

You need to take ownership here and realize that all of what has happened is your fault. I know the other couple said one thing and then did another, but you and your wife are responsible for what you do. The other couple may have tried to manipulate the situation, but YOU ( both of you) allowed that to happen.

You met a couple that was more experienced in the lifestyle with a different agenda than you had. You stated that all you were looking for at first was for the women to play. That went along for a bit then they offered to let you have sex with the other woman, which you did and then you also had a few 3some with your wife and her. Even though it was not in private or behind closed doors it still happened. I realize that you are new and inexperienced, BUT how could you think that IF you were having sex with the other woman that her husband wouldn't want to have sex with your wife?! Your first mistake was thinking that it was ok for you to have sex with the other wife and that there would be no expectation of your wife having sex with him at some point. I know they told you that it was ok, but MOST people expect that couples will reciprocate at some point. Now before everyone flames me for this comment... Political Correctness aside, Yes it should be that way, but the reality of it is that MOST people in the lifestyle expect equal treatment in a swapping situation. After all it is only fair. I know there are exceptions, but by and large that is how most people feel. Unfortunately for you this couple manipulated you and the situation to get what they wanted. If you are only comfortable doing girl/girl then that is ALL you should do. It sounds to me that you thought you could have your cake and eat it too ( playing with the other wife and him not playing with yours). I realize that you are new and trying to find your way, but you have to understand that although this other couple didn't really play fair, it was you and your wife that actually caused this to get out of hand, by NOT sticking to what you both felt comfortable with. I personally don’t understand how you can do soft swap, run around naked, her sitting on his lap, being touchy feely, and have sex with his wife and then be surprised that he wants to play as well. Perhaps, this couple thought that since you were new and inexperienced, if they brought you along gradually, that you would relax and be ok with ALL of you playing. I am NOT saying that the way they did this was right, I’m just offering a suggestion to their motivation. Again, if you or your wife is uncomfortable with anything thing that happens (no matter if you like the couple or not), it is up to you both to stop what is happening and NOT cross that line. I wonder how many other mixed signals you sent this couple along the way, maybe the reason for the ultimatum about your wife putting out was because they thought that all of you were going to be having sex. (not just you and your wife and the other woman).

When we first got into swinging an experienced couple that we met gave us some advice that helped us a lot... Everything is either black( out of bounds) or white( in bounds), there is NO grey area. If something comes up that you haven’t discussed or encountered before it is a grey area. If that happens it has to be off limits, no exceptions, until you have a chance to discuss it. Never discuss a grey area when it comes up, wait till you are alone with no outside influence and talk together about how you feel about it. That way no one feels like they were talked into to something. You come to the conclusion on your own, together. Then that grey area becomes either black or white. Seems so simple that it would happen automatically, but in reality when you are faced with a situation you hadn’t thought of or encountered, you’d be surprised. One of you will think it is ok and the other will not. Better to be safe, than sorry.

As far as your statement about this being a Polyamory relationship, do you even know what that is? Sounds more like two couples that

Became close friends, had fun together, even got to know each others family a bit, maybe even were a bit exclusive about playing. But a polyamory means to love more than one person and to have a full relationship( not just friendship) with those people. I have known a lot of swinging couples over the years that had an exclusive swinging relationship with another couple, but that doesn’t mean they were polyamours.

As far as the “g-spot trick”, stimulating a woman’s g-spot is no trick and it isn’t a way to make a woman become emotionally attached to someone they found unattractive. Attractiveness is much more than just the physical appearance. I get the feeling that you felt threatened by that because he did something with your wife that gave her pleasure that you didn’t have a clue about.

What I am trying to say by all of this is that yes couples should respect your comfort level and not break your rules, BUT if that happens you have a responsibility to each other to make sure things don’t get out of hand. At the end of the day you two have to be comfortable with all of this, if the other couple isn’t ok with that, then that is their fault not yours. Perhaps that is not a couple you want to spend your time with anyway.

Mr. Menage

I am have a different take on this. I know that some of you will not agree with me and that is ok. I also expect to be flamed a bit by what I am going to say……….

 

Mr. Menage

I think you raised some very good points and I really don't think you are going to get flamed at all!

Very good points Mr Menage.

being new myself I was unable to see that angle. I appreciate your thought process and it also gave me something to think about for when I take the plunge.

Your friend,

Prettylady

I am not going flame ya Menage, for I was thinking as you were, and am wondering if I should be leary of this couple, or if I should just take things in stride, and try and manage to work out some friendship with the other couple. I am sure that the two wives could have been still good friends, and the family type ties we experienced could have remained.

The friendship between all of us was way stronger than any sex that ever occurred, epically on our part. This is why I was more shocked to find out that the G spot thing happened, and I was not there. So far as the emotional thing about the G Spot, I read it on the internet. I am thinking it was Carma Sutra, or Sex 101. I aint no expert though, for I didn't know about it before it happened to my wife, when I was not around. Sounds pleasant to me still.

So far as the Sex Blackmail, this is why I am trying to get opinions on this forum. I know it happens in most all relationships where there is a dominant and a submissive. I pose this question, is it right?

Swinging where there is a quota, and rule breaking, should I accept it, deal with it. This is why I am here.

Thanks for your enlightenment.

Their attitude is for me to dominate her, and make her have sex with him, or any sex from this point on will stop.

She is not attracted to him. She constantly is telling me that she does not want to have sex with him.

 

When I asked her how all of this could have happened, she said that she could not stop him. Okay, this sentence def scares the shit out of me. Any sex that is non consentual is rape in my book.

 

You need to cut all ties with this couple.

I know now how it feels to have had my arm twisted so far, it doesn't hurt.

We have written them a letter, and explained our position, and hopefully they are descent enough to just let the past be just that. A unfortunate swinger situation. I have no bad feelings towards them, and I hope they can deal with this like adults.

 

I received a phone call just now. Did not answer it, let it go to Voice Mail. they said,

If we did not want to have sex anymore, if we still wanted to be friends.

I just do not see this to be an option for us.

We can not trust them to not try and manipulate or hurt us.

They have called my phone three times in the last 10 min. I am scared out of my mind. No more Polyamous relationships for us. Fatal attraction sux.

I would not keep that as an option. I hate to be a cynic, but there are some very crazy people out there. In order to protect your wife I would cut it off clean. Do not let her around him, and don't ever leave a drink unattended around them. They seem like they need counseling, not the lifestyle.

I don't really have anything new to add as I agree with all the other posters on this one. I do think you're making the right choice to end all ties with them. It doesn't matter how close you are with them, how much you may love their family, how fun they are, etc. The bottom line is this: They disrespected you, your wife, your marriage and your boundries. He didn't take no for an answer, and I have no doubt that he'll keep trying again and again until he finally gets what he wants. You say they are the more agressive couple, and to be honest, if you've been passive about your ways of saying no, then you can expect for him not to listen to you. You need to finally be the aggressive one and tell this guy that under no uncertain circumstances is anyone to ever disrespect your wife like he did. I wish you luck in this.

im not shure about your thread? yea i know iv become an early morning member lately.but i dont understand the blackmail part? if they are being over demanding just say NO THANKS!! i would STOP!!!

maby im not understanding the rules here?? you got drunk and things went to far, and he and your wife had some sex with out you there. then she enjoys the oral sex to the point of 4 squirting orgasams because he found that wonderfull G-SPOT. what were the rules before they started?? she wasn't supposed to enjoy? he wasn't allowed to get her off ? this is where im a little lost?

the g-spot is not a (trick) by less attractive men to fool women into having sex with them . hell, mrs.fun wishes more men would care a little more about what they are doing down there. alot of men dont get that .

if you feel you are being blackmailed get the hell away from this cpl .

it sounds like you had your fun, but now the wife of the other cpl wants her hubby to have some fun also .

maby you guys can hopefully talk about all of this.

if they are more experianced swingers then its just easier for them to lay their rules out on the table. put your rules on the table ... if you dont all agree then your not with the wright couple. move on.

but to be honest if mrs.fun has 4 mutiple squirting orgasams with a guy there is probably going to be a great big high five ( we do that when its good ) and im probly going to be asking her how she feels and how she wants to proceed with things.

ok im a little more awake now second cup of java Surrender ,

now im not shure where were you whene they slipped away for the sex behind your back at the party?? were you passed out? if so were there any other friends who can validate what happend?

you said they were calling you with friendship without sex??? you should have answerd the phone!! get things out of the grey area just tell them how you feel about things.

maby im wrong and mrs. fun will be up in a little bit and im gonna need her perspective on this. but this thread has gotten my attention

Interesting thread because this is what we are worried about

I am going to try and answer some of your questions fun4ds.

We were all at a vafriends party. It was our first. I am way more out going, and wanted to roam the halls, and see exactly what everything at these type partys had to offer. I was hanging out with his wife, dancing, watching, having fun.

The rule that he broke was for a third, one of us was to be involved. Either his wife, or me. This was HIS rule, NO ONE on ONE sex, and I feel like he used his wife to run interference, and used the draw of the VAF party to get her alone. I knew they were in the room, for they do want to walk the halls. It was late, probably 1 in the morning. We all had been drinking. I an not certain about everyone else, and the alcohol use, but I was having a Great time. I drink JD with no mixer. Never passed out, and did not get sick. I probably drank close to a quart in a few hours, and was not paying to much attention to just one person, I was trying to be apart of the whole party. These partys are a blast.

The next morning I asked my wife is she had fun, and if she was comfortable with the party. She told me that He had gave her a hand job. I said, "Where was I". She replied, roaming the halls. I asked her if she got into it, she replied, no, but he did get her off. I said WOW, how did this happen. She replied, "I don't know". She showed me later that day, and I read up on the trick, internet, best info came from sex 101.

We went back to their house that evening, and I acted normal, knowing that I needed more information about everything. I asked him about the G Spot, and he replied, "Yea, you like that trick, I got lots of them. Made her cum 4 times, and she squirted half way across the bed. You had not ever done that before? Oh, your bad."

My wife obviously felt the need to leave out more of the details he continued to brag about for the next few minutes. How he is experienced in all that fun stuff.

My position in anything my wife does, is that if it is safe, comfortable, and if the rules are followed, I can't and will not get jealous. I told her that it was ok, and if is she wanted to have a sexual relationship with him, I was ok with it, and I would gladly help her through any feelings she had about being shy, or having any kind of remorse for having sex with another man. I want us to be the best swingers we can be, and open to all of the pleasures this lifestyle has to offer. She feels unconfortable with the fact that he broke the rules he laid down in the beginning.

The sexual Blackmail is another aggravating factor. It was laid down the night before by his wife to me. I relayed this to my wife. She said that she was not attracted to him, and did not know if she could do it. I relayed this back to his wife, and she said for me to push harder, and if she kept being this way for me to dominate her, and beat her if I had to. I know this "beating" sounds bad, and this is why I have not mentioned it before. I like to be hit, and stuff, so...... well...... this is one of the draws I had to this other couple.

Thanks to all on The Swingers Board. I did not want to post on the forums on our home Swingers site.

The more I hear of the story the more I think you and your wife should take a break from swinging and start from scratch. Here are the big issues:

• You are at a party and proceed to get drunk, leaving your wife unattended. She may not be a child who needs watching but she may have needed your support or presence. There can be lots of predators out there
  
• She says she is not attracted to this guy and yet she allows him to have sex with her
  
• Your wife does not speak to you first before she plays alone with this man
  
• He brags about his skills with your wife in front of you, has sex with your wife without your consent or knowledge??!!
  
• The wife of the couple tells you to pressure her and beat her if necessary
  

I think first off you need to end it with this couple.

Then you need to sort out your problems - Rules are there to keep everyone safe and happy, you can change them as required TOGETHER, but breaking them is not acceptable.

You need better communication. It is apparent that you are getting most of your information as to what happened from the other husband while your wife says next to nothing.

For swinging to work you have to have trust, communication and respect for each other - I don't see a lot of that going on here. The problem is not the couple attempting sexual blackmail - all you had to do for that is tell them to take a hike, the problem is you are forgetting that you are responsible for the happiness and safety of each other. I know this may sound harsh but this whole situation just gets worse every time I read something new about it.

Interesting thread because this is what we are worried about

Youngnhot- As you continue to describe your situation, the more horrible it sounds. My guess is that there are still layers to this onion that you are not sharing.

Do you receive gratification from being disrespected/humiliated?

Does your wife have a rape fetish?

Does your wife desire to be dominated?

If the answer to all of those is “yes”, then maybe the problem isn’t as HUGE as it appears.

The sexual Blackmail is another aggravating factor. It was laid down the night before by his wife to me. I relayed this to my wife. She said that she was not attracted to him, and did not know if she could do it. I relayed this back to his wife, and she said for me to push harder, and if she kept being this way for me to dominate her, and beat her if I had to. I know this "beating" sounds bad, and this is why I have not mentioned it before. I like to be hit, and stuff, so...... well...... this is one of the draws I had to this other couple.

 

Thanks to all on The Swingers Board. I did not want to post on the forums on our home Swingers site.

UMMMMM I am confused..You didnt tell her to "GO TO HELL!!" Why not? If anyone told my husband to pressure me into anything or dominate me or god forbid beat me..well they would be in for a surprise. He would have flipped out on both of them. You really need to re-think your feelings for your wife and I really think your wife needs to think about how much you are willing to put her through for your own pleasure. You are willing to risk her safety. If I was your wife I would be afraid to go anywhere with you. As I wife...even though I am more than capable of taking care of myself..I still look to my hubby to keep an eye on me and keep me safe. You let your wife down and now you want to continue with this couple. The thought that you would even speak to them is shocking to me. I dont get it.

These are some of the emails they have sent me. I have not responded to them but once, saying that we were not compatable anymore.

The First Email

This is from XXX. I read your letter and I would

like to say a few things about it. I would rather of

course do it face to face but somehow I don't think

you have the courage to do that since you had to

leave a letter in the mailbox (very very childish and

immature). XXXXXX is completely devastated by this.

She really thought XXX was and wanted to be her

friend. Now we are thinking she just went along with

you just so you could keep fucking XXXXXX. Talk

about feeling used! There are a lot of things that I

wish we could tell you as example, I felt pressured

into playing with XXX as much as she did. I felt if

I didn't you guys would stop playing with XXXXXX and

she really enjoyed playing with XXX a lot. Not

unlike XXX, XXXXXX enjoyed playing with you also but

more with XXX than anything else. Your profile says

be who you say. You might want to rethink what

your says about you. We were always up front about

wanting a friendship before all else. If the only way

you can be friends with someone is so you can fuck

the wife.. then you aren't much of a person in my

opinion. I personally don't think this whold

decision of yours is solely based on XXX's feelings

but I could be wrong. Why don't you guys (at least

you XXXX) show some maturity and talk with us about

this face to face and then if you want to stop being

our friends at least we will have had a chance to

tell you how we felt. Its up to you but I hope your

as big a man as I thought.

The Second Email

You know i don't think we ever mind fucked you as

you did us. You said you were our friends and that

you wanted to learn and be like us when all you

(XXXX) wanted was to fuck me (XXXXXX) as you did not

very well but you did. The times that I got off both

of them was with XXXX help if not for him it would

never have happened. You don't know how to please a

woman maybe girls but not a woman which is why i

think XXX plays and lets you play with other girls. I

never wanted you to beat XXX into submission that you

got wrong. But then again i think that you might be

more submissive than you know. I really thought that

you were better people than what you have shown us

and that truly disappoints me.I thought that you were

a man that stood up to people and talked if that what

was needed but I see now that you are not a man at

all not of your actions or of your words, you can not

be trusted. We could have been good friends even if

the sex was not their but you don't want XXX to get

that close to anyone and I see that now. Can't keep

her under your thumb if she get to close to the right

person. I hope that you find what you are looking for

and that XXX gets what she needs. I don't think you

will find a WOMAN that you will do much for but good

luck.I should have known that the biggest problem was

going to be that you could not handle any man

touching XXX you are way to selfish. I should never

have told XXX that is what I wanted he was never that

interested but I thought that was how it should be.

If you had been man enough we could have sat down and

talked these things out but you aren't a man and I am

not sure there is much hope. XXX I am sorry to say

that I thought we were friends you made a good show

of it. Someday when you grow up and open your eyes

you will see that the way you live is not a way of

life. You are a much better person than XXXX will

ever be and I wish you the best! Good luck with your

life you are going to need it for as long as you have

him in your life. Bye guys XXXXXX

What do ya think???

I have recieved two other more viscious emails since. 3 Voice Mails. Would anyone like to read more. PS I have been married to the same woman for 13 years. We have been swinging with ladys for about 4 years. We have a steady GF, and have had her live with us for 6 months at the time. We are nice people, and have alot of fun. We take alot of crap before we say stop. I do know this.

think., all that needs to be said has been....cut and run...

What do ya think???

Concerning the vicious emails, this couple is absolutely flaunting their true colors now. I would ignore them unless they become threatening. If that happens, legal action would be in order (as well as your heightened awareness for your safety).

They are manipulative and hurtful at best…deranged and dangerous at worst.

Mr.

Their emails should prove to you how they really are. If they are being sent on a swingers site I would just block them. They are only trying to hurt you and make you feel low so you will crawl back to them. I would just move on. After all you must do what is best for you and your wife. And these two arent the answer!! CUT and RUN as fast as you can. These two are experts at head games.

Oh, so far as My Wife wanting to be raped, no, she is not into rough sex. She does not like to be dominated, tied up, and likes nothing to do with pain, aside from tattoos. We are in a equal relationship. I cook, she cleans up. I do yard work, she does House work. We have been married for 13 years. She is very bi. I am a bit of a pain slut, I like sharp fingernails, and do not mind if a woman wants to smack me around. I am Gentle with women, and never take anything. My wife does not smack me around, but our GF likes to. We are all ok with this. I like pain, but do not like to be humiliated. The feeling I get from pain is more strength, that I can take it, and want more. It makes me feel strong. I don't know why, it just does.

All of these bad things have transpired since this past Saturday. The last time we saw them was Sunday. I came to this forum and asked these questions, for we had not ever been with another couple before, and was wondering if the pressure we were experiencing was common. We have known this couple well, for a long time, and had been very close for over a month.

I thought all of it at the time (Saturday at the VAF party), was way over the top. I had no idea until Sunday evening how bad things were. Me and my wife talked, and we both broke down some. Very uncool, and very stressful. We are life partners, and we thought this other couple had our best interest in mind, even when they were pressuring us. This is why we decided to break communication with them, and come here for advice.

I have thought about most of the opinions expressed here by others, and this is why, Sunday, I had a Panic Attack. everything crashed, like a ton of bricks on my chest. I was thinking to myself, what have I done, what the hell have I gotten us into, how could I have let them manipulate us to this point, and why did I not pay more attention to what was happening with the love of my life, my wife.

Thanks for all of your continued help.

I do not mind any and all questions regarding this. I do not want anyone here to get the wrong ideas, so I don't mind explaining our position. It is getting to be a long read, so I was not trying to answer the previous questions, for I thought them a little over the top. We are very normal, she is more on the quiet side, and I am very laid back. Our SLS profile is in2tats, incase anyone wants to see us. Judge for yourself. I think the other couple met on alt, and I did not know what this was until recently.

How much trouble do you think we are in?

How much trouble do you think we are in?

If you ignore them completly You two are just fine. There are those out there that are total asses but there are more that are just like you guys. I didnt realize this was your first couple experiance so if I sounded harsh I opologize. Really get away fast from these two. Dont reply to them or return any calls. What they say means nothing really!! Before going out with a couple again make sure you and your wife know your ground rules and are willing to follow them no matter what. NEVER EVER let anyone try to make you do something you dont want to or to degrade you into doing it. If you arent comfy with something you have every right to get up walk out and leave. They dont need an explination...YOU ARENT MARRIED TO THEM! And good luck in the future!! BB

thanks for the reply we have and are currently talking about this. mrs.fun is not a drinker and says that the drinking should stop while swinging with other couples.i on the other hand would have enjoyed a shot of that j/d but here is the thing, im not going to match you shot for shot because that takes away from the real fun of the great SEX. your wife and you were caught up in the excitement of the party and yes sometimes its hard to be thinking of the rules. we never leave one another long enough for anything to happen but we are just close like that. maby hind sights 20/20. however mrs.fun cant quite get the part where your wife had one hell of an orgasam and says she didnt enjoy it? mrs.fun can relate to this in a way that she has had some great sex with a guy but, like you guys his rude mouth ruined things afterwards.so we dont play with them anymore.but at the moment who knew? not that she didnt enjoy it while it was going on. that being said, how would you feel with her being with another man/couple that was more decent about things. (most of us are). if her being with another man is the problem then we feel you should keep things the way they are with bi females untill you can find a couple that you are really compatible with.dont answer their calls or e mails . its about you guys as a couple not them. we hope you guys can get through this with a better understanding. and yes the couple sounds like ass holes to us but we have found that as swingers not everyone is the same with their levels of comfort. we prefer couples as friends and we have our rules and respect others. some people like to fuck and never get personal. some like to do girl girl play and go back to their own husbands. it can go on and on with people being diffrent. our main thing is that in our swinging experiances there have been very few downfalls. we enjoy ourselves and take care of each other first and above all.

If you ignore them completly You two are just fine. There are those out there that are total asses but there are more that are just like you guys. I didnt realize this was your first couple experiance so if I sounded harsh I opologize. Really get away fast from these two. Dont reply to them or return any calls. What they say means nothing really!! Before going out with a couple again make sure you and your wife know your ground rules and are willing to follow them no matter what. NEVER EVER let anyone try to make you do something you dont want to or to degrade you into doing it. If you arent comfy with something you have every right to get up walk out and leave. They dont need an explination...YOU ARENT MARRIED TO THEM! And good luck in the future!! BB

We feel badly about the awful experience you have had. Most swingers are NOT like that couple.

Be true to yourself and to each other. If you learn from this experience you can grow stronger from it.

Also, just to confirm the "ditto", block them and do not respond to any of their communication. Anything, even asking them to leave you along or explaining yourself further, will make them think they should continue to try and manipulate you.

At the risk of getting flamed.... I am gonna thow my 2 cents into the hat as well.

YoungnHot...I think you need to accept some of the blame for this problem yourself.

First of all, a few drinks at a party is expected, any more than that and you risk making an ass out of yourself. We have attended many lifestyle parties over the years and nothing turns us and others off quicker than to see someone getting drunk at these functions. If you wish to continue in this lifestyle, I think a good place to start would be to stay sober at all functions where sex may be an option. I personally will start the night off with a Jack and Coke or two and then it's Coca-Cola for the rest of the evening. Why?....Well...weather you wanna be or not..YOU are your partners protector at these events. IMHO all men in this lifestyle have the responsibilty to keep thier wives safe and comfortable. How can you watch out for her well being when you're half in the bag?

Second..I think you need to step back from the situation and consider your involvement with the other couple. You were allowed to play with the other female and you Did. Your wife was allowed to play with the other female and she Did. It sounds as though the only one left out of the mix was the male half of the other couple. You can not expect this to go on without someone getting upset or tired of the situation. You also need to ask yourself...Was your wife "forced" to play with the male half of the other couple, or is she TELLING you that because she knows you are too insecure to handle the truth. It's my opinion that a womens largest and most important sex organ sits above thier shoulders. Meaning their mind...If a ladies brain isn't in the right place, then anything lower than that will not allow an orgasm to happen. She must have been more comfortable than she is leading you to believe IF she actually came 4 times,.... it has nothing to do with G-spot stimulation. You can not force a woman to cum...it's just not that way for them.

Third...This may sound harsh but, Read a book, do some experimentation. Get some experience. This may help with your insecurities. The G-spot is not some secret trick that swinging men use to lure women into a relationship. It is however a very sensative and pleasureful area for a woman to have stimulated, and will in some cases cause female ejacualtion. If your wife has the "gift" read up on it, learn how to give her that experience for gawd sakes...you owe it to her and to yourself to be the best lover for her, that you can be. This will put any insecurites behind you.

My fourth and last suggestion would be to commincate!!! Not only with your spouse but also with the couple that you are invloved with. Set boundries and discuss them with your spouse and everyone else you may be involved with. Be open, be honest let everyone involved know what your intentions are and what you expect to get out of the experience. Ask yourself...Would the male half of the other couple ever agreed to you 4 playing as couples, IF he had known from the start that you wanted him no-where near your wife? Did you communicate this to him from the begining or did you kinda leave that out of the conversations in order to get what you wanted out of the relationship? For us...We think of this lifestyle as a picnic..If you don't have a dish to pass....Don't bother cummin'. If you had told me that I was not going to be involved, my wife and I would have given eachother the "look" wich means "time to move on". I think most couples would have done the same.

Please don't think I am being judgemental towards you...I am merely trying to steer you in the right direction. It honestly sounds like you and your wife need to take a break from the lifestyle for a while. Talk about everything involved in the lifestyle. Find out what you're comfortable with and what you're not. Maybe take some time to build a better, more open relationship together. Experiment with eachother find out sexually what makes the other one "tick". Maybe even mend the fence with the other couple, with no sex invoved for the time being. I think, if you were to communicate to them your fears, problems, insecurities and expectations. You would probably find out that they are still the friends you once had outside of the bedroom. I honestly believe the e-mails they sent you were simply a reaction to being hurt.

Good Luck,

Mr. Upst8Cpl

BTW...Mr. Menage ..I agreed with you whole wholeheartedly. If I repeated any or all of your statements....Sorry. But. I think you hit the nail right on the head.

Another email from this couple after I told them we were not compatable. All we want to do is try and repair ourselves, they are trying to convince us I am a piece of shit, and I guess my wife should choose them over me.

Third email.

You know i don't think we ever mind fucked you as you did us. You said you were our friends and that you wanted to learn and be like us when all you (xxxx) wanted was to fuck me (xxxxxx) as you did not very well but you did. The times that I got off both of them was with xxxx help if not for him it would never have happened. You don't know how to please a woman maybe girls but not a woman which is why i think xxx plays and lets you play with other girls. I never wanted you to beat Jen into submission that you got wrong. But then again i think that you might be more submissive than you know. I really thought that you were better people than what you have shown us and that truly disappoints me.I thought that you were a man that stood up to people and talked if that what was needed but I see now that you are not a man at all not of your actions or of your words, you can not be trusted. We could have been good friends even if the sex was not their but you don't want xxx to get that close to anyone and I see that now. Can't keep her under your thumb if she get to close to the right person. I hope that you find what you are looking for and that xxx gets what she needs. I don't think you will find a WOMAN that you will do much for but good luck.I should have known that the biggest problem was going to be that you could not handle any man touching xxx you are way to selfish. I should never have told Rob that is what I wanted he was never that interested but I thought that was how it should be. If you had been man enough we could have sat down and talked these things out but you aren't a man and I am not sure there is much hope. xxx I am sorry to say that I thought we were friends you made a good show of it. Someday when you grow up and open your eyes you will see that the way you live is not a way of life. You are a much better person than xxxx will ever be and I wish you the best! Good luck with your life you are going to need it for as long as you have him in your life. Bye guys xxxxxx

And another, Lets just all blame this on me, damn, I would liked to have been there. Fuck Me for caring, at least that much.

Fourth email.

You can think what you would like xxx never fucked xxx when you weren't in the room. xxx is the one that wanted to play when you were not thier because you make her uncomfortable. I don't think that you were are friend because friend would have had the nerve to talk to us face to face and you didn't. if you had thinks would have been totaly different. Instead you take some chicken shit way out of it and can't even be a man. And it was me who was pushing for the sex unlike you xxx does listen to what i have to say and thinks about it he knew that i was uncomfortable with the fact that you were fucking me and that all he was doing was standing around that is not right. Hell the sex with you wasn't even good you have no clue what you are doing and are not willing to even learn you don't care what or how to please a woman you couldn't have gotten me off with out xxx because you think all there is to it is pounding on it and it takes most WOMEN alot more than that. xxx didn't want to play with xxx that was what i wanted and that is the truth about it I have never lied to you or to anyone I don't lie i see know reason in it. As for xxx breaking a rule did you ever set any??? Or was it ..xxxs decision?? She can do what she wants. Remember that. xxx didn't I don't think relize that he was breaking a rule. The rule that he gave you were about me if you wanted them for xxx then you should have said that.

As for your message board I don't need poeple to tell me what or how to feel or think about this I am seeing how it is with you. I thought that we were friends and that was a lie because friends talk and try to make things right befor they just say fuck it like you did!!!!!

me again.

I say fuck it. Obviously, these people were trying to minipulate me and my wife. I should be in total agreement on this point.

This other man said he had some rules, it was agreed that I would not Fuck His Wife In The Ass, Or Give Her Cocaine, as well as the no one on one sex. I said, Hell Yea, that goes for mine also. I don't want some fat 50yo man fucking my wifes ass hole, or drugging her, or giving her drugs. This one on one sex was this important to him, and I said the same rules applied, for it seemed like common sence. Guess payback for me will to.... I ain't got no cocaine....

The whole thing reminds me of the whole adolescent bullying/hazing routine:

1. pull kids into the group
   
2. make them feel included
   
3. tell them that they're about to be "initiated" into some arcane group/skill/knowledge
   
4. make them feel that they've accomplished something, and that backing out now would be "losing" something (losing face, prestige, privileges, whatever)
   
5. use that as a lever to submit them to the group or leader's will
   

YoungHotCpl: You were very slow to catch on. Cut loose, take a step back, check your situation as a couple, re-examine your assumptions and attend to your relationship, and until that happens, see if you really want to be in the lifestyle, and how (define your rules, the "grey area" description is really fitting and practical).

Dave here, and I've kinda been following this in the background.

We've had a somewhat similiar experience in this type of situation. We met a couple who at first we thought was pretty cool. We were the experienced two in the group, and things were going well.

They preferred different location. They would come over, we would hang out, and he would choose to leave and leave his wife with us. Basically he was "penis shy." We were cool as a group, and he managed to let his guard down before Kat had a chance to go spend some time at their place (we do play alone if everyone is cool with that, different reasons for us etc.)

He started showing a very sexist attitude, something that Kat finds very demeaning. Also he started making a lot of discriminatory remarks regarding gays (Kat's brother is VERY gay). Needless to say, after all of this, Kat took a "No, not going to happen" attitude and stuck by her guns. She didn't have problems being friends, everyone is entitled to their own views, but for her, the sexual attraction was gone. Even after all of these comments, events, etc, she continued to hang out with them on a friendship level (although she and his wife would continue to have sex occasionally)

Kat also told him this in no uncertain terms. He though, allowed his wife and Kat to continue until I returned from OIF I. He would be present, but to my knowledge, did not attempt things with Kat. Afterwards, it was an email saying that because Kat wouldn't play with him, he felt the need to break things off.

I respect Kat, respect her decisions, and bore no ill will towards who I thought would still be friends.

It wasn't until later that we heard from mutual friends about the badmouthing, the claims of inadequacy, and some other torrid comments about us, best left to middle school locker rooms.

Its amazing how people can be on their best behavior and how the true colors eventually come out.

Because of all of the "after" actions, we've broken it off completely. No more talking, no more hanging out.

I suggest you do the same and to go on. Chalk things down to bad experiences. Hurt people will say and do things they never meant, but that is no excuse for the follow-up emails, for the phone calls and all of that.

Do not let them get you down about your performance or your manhood. Is your wife happy with you and how you perform in bed? That's the only real importance. There is another thread on women and orgasms, some good insight about how some women just cannot have an orgasm without their husband there. Maybe, just maybe, they aren't as "experienced" as you might have thought.

These things happen. Relationships end badly. I've always thought of swinging as a double date. You can have some great double dates, but once someone has an issue, it ruins the whole thing for everyone. It takes maturity to not act like we're back in high school with the name calling and the bad rumors.

I kinda find it amusing that they say over and over and over again how they didnt want to fuck either of you and how horrible you were yet they are fighting tooth and nail to get you to come back so they can convince you to play again....They show their true colors in their emails and hopefully they will get the hint and move on to the next victim. They really need to grow up and you guys need to take it as a learning experiance and move on! best of luck!!

Hi everyone I have been reading all about this and i know what really happened, I was there. We didn't even know thier was a problem until we got a letter left in our mailbox. He didn't even have the courage to come and talk with us about how he felt. It is easy for people to make snap judgements and give advice especially when what they are being told is only half of the story and full of embelishments and half truths on top of that! The fact of the matter is, the night before she "played" with my husband, apparently unwillingly, but NOT what she told him when he asked her "are you sure you want to do this and she said yes". Her apparent change of heart was because the night before my husband talked with her about her desire to play openly for at least and hour and she told him she 'wasn't ready". When she told him she wasn't ready, he told her he was perfectly ok with that and did not want her to do anything she didn't want to do. Fact is he didn't really care either way and he told everyone that. When he found out she told him she didn't want to play he took her home the next morning and put her into tears for several hours because he was so worried that if she didn't play he wouldn't be allowed to play with me anymore. Even after she did an apparent change of heart the next night my husband still asked if she wanted to play and she told him she wanted to. He gave her every chance to say no and even knowing that he made sure the door was open and unlocked while they were playing and the fact is during the 15 or 20 minutes he played with her, with his hands only, didn't even fuck her, me and her husband walked in and out 3 times. It was NOT a behind closed door thing as he would like people to believe and he all but insisted she play with my husband even after my husband told him he didn't care either way!

I think true friends can work out anything if they are willing to talk about whatever the problems are. They never gave us that chanch. If they had we would have said ok we would rather have you as good friends then to have sex. My hubby doesn't need anyone else. He goes around telling everyone that I am trying to fuck him to death .

As for what I said about sex with the other well sorry to say it is true I found it boaring most of the time. In fact while I was on him one time he said "she is getting bored" the only difference being he used my name. He does not take the time to try to really figure out what a woman wants. My husband even offer to help him by telling him things that he could do or say. But he didn't really want that help.

Now if they were feeling so used and abused why is it that the night after all the bad stuff happened they (he mostly) had no problem comming to our house to fuck me? He had not been able to get me off and had tried many many times, so my husband talked me into an orgasam while he fucked me.. but yet they were so used that they can no longer be our friends.

If anyone has been used its has been us. We befriended these people, welcomed them into our home, my husband, in his words, shared his most precious belonging with him, me. He was willing to help this man figure out what it is he doesn't understand about how to please a woman. My husband showed great respect for his wife's wants without ever forcing himself on her and only after she told him she wanted to play with him did he do anything and then just enough to pleasure her. After that he told her he understood her feelings and thought it best to take "baby steps" with it for her sake. This is a pure simple case of a man that has been allowed for years to play with other women and not having to deal with the feelings his wife probably felt that when he finally was put in a position of having to share her with someone else in order to keep getting what he wanted desperately (me) he found out his ego couldn't handle the fact that another man could get his wife off four times in 15 minutes just with his hands. He is having real issues dealing with knowing that there is another man that understands women so much more than him, even his own wife. He has lashed out at us through this site and in all honesty, it is just what I would expect someone to do when they are too much of a coward to be honest and truthful about their feelings. Personally I think taking this approach to dealing with his own insecurities is a childish immature way to make himself feel better about his own shortcomings but in reality, who gives a shit? There are four people that know the truth about what happened and sadly one of them feels the need to lie about it just to make himself feel better. We all know the truth and therefore will not lose any sleep over this situation other than over the loss of someone we hoped would turn out to be really good friend (his wife). This man is an egotistical, self serving, self centered prick. Those were my husbands words about him almost a week before all this happened but my husband still kept and open mind and wanted to give them a chance to prove he was wrong. It really sucks when your husband can say "I told you so" when he warned us about this man's real agenda and it wasn't to have us as real friends. Its was all a ruse on his part to keep fucking the first woman he ever met that was too much for him. I was a challenge to his ego and ability so much so that he felt it necessary to get viagra to perform. Unfortunately viagra can't teach a man how to pleasure a woman. He failed at being a friend, he failed at pleasuring me and I'm pretty confident he fails at pleasuring his own wife. Shakespear once wrote a very famous line in a play that applies to this situation extremely well.... "methinks thou dost protest too much" . Just food for thought all you swingers out there in the internet world. Is it possible that a man could be so distraught over his own lack of abilities that he would lash out at someone just to make himself feel better? Gotta wonder? I will not post anything else on this matter because as far as we are concerned we are better off without fake friends. I'd rather die alone than in a room full of pretentous jerks like this man.