Need advice on situation re cheating?/swinging SO

I am overwhelmed and am seeking advice. I live with my boyfriend. I'll try to keep this short.

Before we became involved sexually we discussed fidelity. He asked if i would be upset/jealous if he slept with someone else. I said my concern would only be re Health matters. He asked if it would be alright if it was safe and not emotional. I said yes, as long as I was informed. I explained that i needed to know in order to consider my choices. We agreed. Yippee! Ok, i moved in.

He then talked to me about swinging and would i consider it? Ok. We went to a club, so i could see the lifestyle. We havent gone back as he has been away (though i think he did go without me without saying so). I've become seriously interested in the lifestyle as i understand it, and am interested in exploring it as a couple.

He came back from a recent trip and announced things werent working, not me, etc. (right after i asked him if there was anything i needed to know about regarding his trip. i asked pointedly and directly). I prepared to leave. I dont want to stay where i am not wanted/desired. He did a turn around, please stay. I was reluctant but did. Now i'm sorry, as he is away again, and i have accidentally (really, it was quite accidental) discovered that he has been playing with a number of other couples while away, actively pursuing, and putting himself forth as single.

I'm upset about his playing without telling me. Not so much having sex outside of US, but of not being told about it. It seems to me the basic agreement of being informed has been broken.

I'm angry sad, hurt, and sick to my stomach. i feel very much betrayed. I feel i can't trust him and i feel manipulated and used. I also wonder if can really have sex again with him.

What i want to know is: Is this common in the lifestyle? Is his behaviour considered cheating? Has anyone else experienced such a situation? How do you confront what may not be cheating but is still a breaking of trust/disrespect??

Thank you.

What i want to know is: Is this common in the lifestyle? Is his behaviour considered cheating? Has anyone else experienced such a situation? How do you confront what may not be cheating but is still a breaking of trust/disrespect??

Thank you.

What i want to know is: Is this common in the lifestyle? Who knows. I'd like to think it wasn't, and with my experience thus far it isn't. But I am sure it happens. Doesn't make it right.

Is his behaviour considered cheating? I consider it cheating. Yes.

Has anyone else experienced such a situation? Not myself, but I've seen it on the board a few times.

How do you confront what may not be cheating but is still a breaking of trust/disrespect?? Already, I stated that this is cheating. He told you he would inform you and he hasn't. And it's sexual in nature. This isn't a way you treat someone you are in a relationship with. That said, you simply confront him! Tell him how you feel that it was dishonest of him to keep this part of his life hidden with your relationship the way it stands.

At this point, I think swinging would be out of the question until a definite trust began to redevelop, however I feel that with what you had said so far this will likely push him into it more. And if it does, then so be it, you are better off without. If he thinks you are worth it for him to try to rebuild this trust and to put off swinging until you are comfortable in your relationship again, that would be a positive outcome.

This whole swinging while still dating seems absurd to me anyway. You two are still figuring out things about eachother! Why throw something as complex as swinging into the mix? Swinging to me is about us, as a couple, enjoying an aspect of our lives that we participate in together. No matter how you define swinging as together literally, or simply dabbling in the lifestyle together yet seperate, you should have a sound foundation to begin with.

Mr. Truelove

I think that what is happening here is that a young person sees being with someone other than their SO, in a general sense, as swinging. What the one playing seems to think is that it is okay. It isn't that he doesn't respect his SO, in his mind, it's the idea of sexual freedom he gets. For this reason, he doesn't ask about whether his "SO" is getting any, so that is what leads me to think this is so.

I agree...if you want to swing , you have to have a bit of a stronger relationship with your SO. If he wants to play the field, then you should know how and what he is doing.

Male D

From what I've read, you have pretty good communication skills, you're assertive, and you know what you need from a relationship. You have an open-minded and balanced way of going about life in general and swinging in particular. You seem to "get it" where swinging is concerned, that it's a together activity, and it's not the sex that hurts but the lying about it.

To answer your question, YES, it IS cheating. Anything that has to be hidden from you is cheating and just hearing about his sneaking around pisses me off...and I'm not even involved! It's situations just like yours that are the reason my husband and I refuse to play with anyone who is out playing behind his or her partner's back. And yes, sadly it's more common than we'd like.

I think you have a decision to make: do you really want to be with someone who doesn't think enough of you to be honest with you? Someone you can't trust? Or do you truly think he'll change? I'm not being facetious. It's possible that he may change, but you'd have to actually see the change, and not just hear him promise that he will. I would tell him exactly what you said here:

I'm upset about [your] playing without telling me. Not so much having sex outside of US, but of not being told about it. It seems to me the basic agreement of being informed has been broken.

I'm angry sad, hurt, and sick to my stomach. i feel very much betrayed. I feel i can't trust [you] and i feel manipulated and used. I also wonder if can really have sex again with [you].

That pretty much says it all. From your description, Junior has some growing up to do before he catches up to your emotional maturity level. I'd recommend, if you decide to leave him, that you don't let him talk you into staying again. Whichever you decide to do, follow through and let him know the reasoning behind your decision. You don't owe him anything after the stunts he's pulled, but he'll never learn unless someone makes him understand.

Welcome to the board! Looking forward to getting to know you!

You deserve much better, Empowered. There is no reason to accept betrayal.

Mr. Alura

Hi empowered.

Its interesting that he brought this topic up early in your relationsihp .. good for him.

You talk about it ... you investigate swinging ... good for both of you.

Then he doesn't follow thru and be honest. Bad for him ...

I'd say go back to your earlier decission ... you should be able to find a guy that will be honest in your situation, and I'm sure you'll find that relationship much better.

dayhiker

If you cruise the Forum and read the pertinent posts, I think you'll find out that his behavior is routinely condemned by those in the lifestyle. Honesty and trustworthiness are highly prized and necessary elements in a relationship that sucedes in the lifestyle. The best result for a couple inthe lifestyle is that their activities bring them closer together and foster a deeper and more oen communication. All that he has done is prove not everyone is ready for such a deep and intimate relationship. His lying and hiding behaviors are signs of his inability to act responsibly and in your best interest. It's not my position to advise you, but the likelihood he is the kind of man you'd really want to end up with is small. "Is this common in the lifestyle?' you asked. It may happen, but if it's known about, most lifestyle couples will avoid the couple like the plague once they find out.

What i want to know is: Is this common in the lifestyle?

Whether something is "common" "in the lifestyle" depends upon how you define those terms.

We have been semi-active swingers (we don’t like the term “lifestyle”) for a couple years. So, we don’t have the greatest depth or breadth of experience. However, we have been to a “Lifestyles” convention and have met a large number of committed swingers.

There are a large number of people who are involving themselves in swinging activities whether it be responding to on line ads, meeting other couples for play dates, or attending club or convention events. Nearly everyone has their own motivations and expectations as to what they are trying to “get” out of the experience. Some number of individuals are looking for nothing more than a quick and indiscriminant sexual encounter. Others are looking for an additional individual (or couple) with whom to establish more of an emotional and sexual connection akin to a second (or third) love-based relationship. A great many swingers fall somewhere in the middle wanting more than indiscriminate play but something far less than a second marriage.

Because of the diversity of the people involved and wide range of their objectives, it is dangerous to categorize anything as being “usual” or “common” within swinging. There certainly are some number of guys and gals interested in playing with as many different people as possible. There are certainly some number of individuals who try to set up liaisons with others when they are traveling. If your question is whether this activity is normal or usual, I don’t think it is uncommon. We certainly know couples who actively look to meet other couples when traveling (particularly on vacations).

If your questions is directed to his deceit, that is a bit more difficult to answer. In our experience, most swingers are appalled by liars and avoid them like the plague. However, there are some number of swingers who are only interested in the individual sexual liaison and don’t ask too many questions. Moreover, even if a swinger or swinging couple asks, they have very limited resources to confirm an honest response.

Is his behaviour considered cheating? How do you confront what may not be cheating but is still a breaking of trust/disrespect??

By “his behavior,” we assume you mean his decision to keep his sexual liaisons from you even though you thought you had an agreement that sex with others was OK so long as it was disclosed. The vast majority of “swingers” we know and have known would consider this behavior wrongful whether the term “cheating” is applied or not. Fundamentally, the behavior you discuss is deceitful and, as we noted above, we believe that most swingers despise deceitful behavior.

Your questions suggest that you are caught up wondering if your reaction to his dishonesty should be any different than if you had discovered that he had been unfaithful. We presume that your question springs from your arrangement that expressly permitted "unfaithful" behavior provided there was full disclosure.

We believe that all committed relationships are based upon trust. If you cannot trust your partner, you cannot remain in a relationship with them. In monogamous relationships, all infidelity is, by definition, an attack on the trust that forms the basis of the relationship. After all, a promise to remain monogamous is no different than any other promise made by couples to one another. It may be viewed as more important by society and held in higher regard by some couples, but it is, at its foundation, nothing more than a promise.

Here, you elected to forego a monogamous relationship but obtained a promise concerning the non-monogamy. That promise has now been broken. You confront the breaker of that promise no differently than if they had promised to be monogamous and been unfaithful.

That having been said, we think your real question is: how do I get my SO to view the breaking of his promise in the same light as a decision to be unfaithful? We think the answer to that question is that you probably can’t. It seems to us unlikely that he is every going to be faithful to any promise made with respect to his sexual activity. Accordingly, even if you were willing to accept swinging according to some mutually agreeable set of rules, it is our opinion (based upon his prior conduct) that he will not abide by those rules.

We think most swingers will tell you that the agreed upon rules adopted by every couple are the key to successful swinging. Most swingers, we believe, adhere to their rules with near zealous rigidity. So, we think most experienced and successful swingers would view the intentional disregarding of rules as akin to being unfaithful in a monogamous relationship.

We hope this helps.

I want to thank each and every person who responded to my post.

Naturally, there are more circumstances involved, but at the end of the day they are only part of a story. The facts remain the same.

An agreement. It gets broken.

I've had a few days to come to grips with this, and what keeps coming back are the simple facts.

Yes, i do like this guy. I like myself more.

I'll miss him. But I would miss myself more.

Yeah, I'm sad. And really, really mad. As I would be with anyone i trusted who in anyway took advantage of a trust.

At the very least, there is a lack of integrity in this whole thing, and I will be the first to step up and claim some of that - I led myself to believe with a little time, things would change, be different... and doing so, gave away my power, and by not admitting it to myself, lost a lot of self-respect along with it. Where's the integrity in that???? This, inspired by the last post which was correct stating what i couldnt - that i was trying to get at the ethics of the thing, find out whether i was way out of line, or not. What i should Always Know Anyway. (and believe me, i'm looking at that!)

Mea Culpa.

He was a fun playmate to waste my time with. But that's all, at the end of the day. (get to ask myself alot of questions here) And my time is waaay tooo precious to give him any more.

I'm untying all the knots and tying up loose ends.

I appreciate every single response, and if anyone else wants to post - cool. I'd love it. I'll be checking.

But the question has been reduced to:

1. Best way to confront an absent SO (B)?

2. Most creative way to leave an absent SO (B)?

And, is there anyone out there that would be interested in having conversations with me about the lifestyle (when I'm ready again to explore - i'm in theory stage, definitely, right now) as a single? How to...?

You are all really wonderful. I thank you. Especially Mr. Truelove, for his off-forum willingness to guide. Openly and Honestly. You, especially, Rock.

Namaste,

Juniper

Couldn't help but post one more quick note.

Clearly, though the guy is self-defined as a swinger, he's really not.

He's a Player, with all the connotations implied with that. Sadly, for some reason won't self-identify as such. Leaves it up to others. So not as good as playing with others as he posts. (wicked grin here).

I'm hearing that Nancy Sinatra song in my head right now.....

Do you mean, "These boots were made for walkin'," Empowered? Strangely, I thought of that song about half-way trough the second post up. Heh...Heh...

Perhaps the best way to confront an absent S.O. (this one, anyway) is to let him arrive home to an empty apartment, the only clue that your things are gone. Take nothing of his, but make it seem as if you were never there.

We're looking forward to talking with you on other subjects, so keep loggin' in!

Alura

Thanks all! Yes, thats the Song.

I finally had the opportunity to discuss with him. Sadly, he denied, denied, denied!!! Took a while for him to catch on that that wasnt getting him anywhere. Then rationalized. then minimized, tried to bargain. Then started to really get the gravity of it all. He's shocked that i found his profile to begin with, and i believe he is getting just a little bit paranoid. For sure, he is not enjoying his trip at this point. His apology consisted of 'i don't have to say i'm sorry cuz i am, i screwed up, and i'm sorry...blah.blah.blah. We got cut off at this point. I'm sure he's going through some uncomfortable thoughts and feelings at this point.

But yes, i am doing what i need to do to divest.

You all have been wonderful.

Hi Empowered,

Hey you really managed that situation well from what you have writtten.

Keep reading the posts hear and come to understand what swinging really is. then continue to call him on his behavior and tell he doesn't understand what swinging is untill he knows he is not a real swinger but a cheat. Then if he turns and becomes honest and you can learn to trust him, you will have won a freind and helped him become a better person. Sounds like the jury is still out on if that is going to happen.

dayhiker

It sounds like you've made your mind up and I applaud you for standing up for yourself.

Empowered, it appears that you have a handle on the communication needed in any relationship. Your BF doesn't, it seems. I've stated on other responses that if communication isn't clear and open there will likely be problems in other aspects of a relationship. What he is doing I say is cheating. Dictionary definition is doing something, in this instance having sex with others, without you knowing or approving and is definitely cheating. Cheating often leads to anger and separation. Having sex with others, with full knowledge, is not cheating and I also say is not what some religious persons say is adultery. If, after attempting to communicate your feelings and desires you get nowhere and the cheating continues I strongly suggest LEAVE HIM. It sounds like you are a good person to be with some guy who appreciates you and is very open to honest communication.

he denied, denied, denied!!! Took a while for him to catch on that that wasnt getting him anywhere. Then rationalized. then minimized, tried to bargain...I'm sure he's going through some uncomfortable thoughts and feelings at this point.

Brava! I'm really impressed at the way you've broken down the whole conversation like this. It's a sad thing to watch, isn't it? You have to sit and wonder why the hell people do this to themselves. If they'd just be honest and do the right thing in the first place, they wouldn't have to feel like a lousy shit of a person.

Please keep us updated.

Clearly, though the guy is self-defined as a swinger, he's really not.

He's a Player, with all the connotations implied with that.

Exactly! I'm sure he will make somebody miserable someday.

Good for you for taking control of the situation and it's much better you found out now rather than later. I don't think you will have any problem continuing in the lifestyle if you choose. You sound like you have the right attitude and expectations.

Be true to yourself and everything falls into place eventually.

I just wanted to say "Good Job" All thoug I don't swing (yet?) I will not cheat either. But in my life I have known girls/women who decide to stay and make it work. Few suceed. And some I have help move out and on.

It is never an easy choice to end a relationship. This is why I think some decide to "stick it out".

I like, and respect emotionally strong women.

Best wishes.

I finally had the opportunity to discuss with him. Sadly, he denied, denied, denied!!! Took a while for him to catch on that that wasnt getting him anywhere. Then rationalized. then minimized, tried to bargain. Then started to really get the gravity of it all. He's shocked that i found his profile to begin with, and i believe he is getting just a little bit paranoid.

This guy doesn't have a clue what it means to be in a relationship based on trust, honesty, openness and respect. You definitely deserve better! Best wishes with everything.

YOU certainly deserve someone who does care about you more than his pecker. So sorry you had to find out by stumbling on stuff in the computer - but he is probably on more than just one swing site and may be using several names and email accounts to hide behind as well.

Sounds like you've decided to grab the suitcase and leave the rubbish behind.

Too bad you can't hear me applauding but I am.

It's fine to be in agreement once a stable relationship is established that a little bit of swing will make life interesting provided it's all above board and it's done TOGETHER. The bond between two committed people (who have the understanding that if one ain't happy, it ain't happenin') has to be strong one to even consider inviting others or jumping into their beds. I have a standing agreement with my partner....we hunt together and he's content he wouldn't have to sneak around then.

As far as suggestions on moving out while he's away...hum "50 Ways to Leave Your Lover" by Garfunkel...I did. I left the key on the kitchen table after the moving van was packed, change of address cards handed to the postie and headed to Florida for a couple of weeks to get my head straight. Take only what you need, it's a great way to unclutter your life at the same time. Enjoy the freedom!

If you cruise the Forum and read the pertinent posts, I think you'll find out that his behavior is routinely condemned by those in the lifestyle. Honesty and trustworthiness are highly prized and necessary elements in a relationship that sucedes in the lifestyle. The best result for a couple inthe lifestyle is that their activities bring them closer together and foster a deeper and more oen communication. All that he has done is prove not everyone is ready for such a deep and intimate relationship. His lying and hiding behaviors are signs of his inability to act responsibly and in your best interest. It's not my position to advise you, but the likelihood he is the kind of man you'd really want to end up with is small. "Is this common in the lifestyle?' you asked. It may happen, but if it's known about, most lifestyle couples will avoid the couple like the plague once they find out.

Well Said...

Susan here-- Never be a man's doormat. You gave him everything he wanted, a sexually open relationship and he still hid his actions. You deserve better.

He is an idiot not to appreciate what he have (had). He will probably realize that when his future wife takes the house and the kids and kick him out. Best wishes to you. You deserve better.

Well, let's see. He's lying to you. He's lying to others. He's doing this behind your back. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

This is why we don;t play with anyone who plays without their SO's knowledge. There is a clear line between cheating/adultery. We've had more than one woman who was in this situation try to swing with us and we explained to them the differecne between swinging and adultery, and that we don;t play with adulterers. The way I look at this is: if your own mate can't trust you, why should we? Swinging requires a certain amount of trust with the people you are playing with. If you are willing to willfully violate the trust that the person you married (or have some sort of commitment/agreement with), we (as basically strangers) sure as hell can't trust you.

...though the guy is self-defined as a swinger, he's really not. ...He's a Player

Exactly! He's not a swinger. He's a player who uses swingers as a means to get laid. A very low lifeform, indeed. I'm glad you arrived to the conclusion that you did and didn;t choose to excuse his behavior or rationalize it, or somehow fin another way to enable him to keep deceiving everyone (including himself). When I see ppl on SLS with certs from ppl like this, or who (even worse) give certs to people like this, it just turns my stomach. I lose respect for all parties involved. Everyone knows how bad it feels to be lied to; to be cheated on. Why would anyone help someone do that to someone else? I'm sorry.... honesty and openness are sexy. Liars are not.

Empowered-

He's a slimeball masquerading as a "swinger".

True "swingers" put their primary relationship first (whether that be an LTR, marriage, partnership, etc.), above all else. I'm sure, in his mind, his cheating was somehow rationalized (it always is with cheaters) because you agreed it would be okay to have an open relationship. True "swingers" establish boundaries and ALWAYS make honesty and open communication essential to their primary relationship. He failed to do any of that.

As Dan Savage says.....DTMFA. You deserve better.