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SuzieG

New to this forum but not the LS and I'm confused. :(

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Hello everyone!! I am thankful for having found this forum. Any guidance you can provide is greatly appreciated!! :)

 

About me: I'm Suzie. I'm in my 30's and have experience in the LS in two prior long term, committed relationships. The first was at my initiation in my early 20's, and moreseo because I was attracted to a couple particular men other than my then-BF, and desired permission to engage in sexual activity with those particular men rather than actually "cheat." Not that great an idea, I know. It was disastrous.

 

The second was a mutual decision borne of the desire to infuse an already great relationship, albeit with a little bit of sexual boredom and two voracious appetites, with some excitement and passion. We were part of an intimate network of military members and their significant others, very private and tight-lipped, as extra-marital relationships could put many in jeopardy of prosecution pursuant to the MCOJ (I know, ridiculous). While there were a few of us that lived close together and could therefore spend more time together, the majority of this local activity was a lot of soft swapping, and the rest was parties or cruises, where we'd never see each other again, as we were all quite a distance from each other at different bases and whatnot. Quite frankly, I preferred it that way, as it prevented a lot of emotional entanglements just because the people weren't around - it was basically, "Well, that was a fun little escapade!" over and over.

 

The LS worked in the second relationship, not so much the first, basically because of how and why the swinging even began. I also have experience with group sex and threesomes in more casual environments (think college parties, etc.).

 

Essentially, I'm no prude, love sex, I'm very open minded, and can separate love and sex, but really do much prefer sex with someone I care about. In fact, I see sexual activity as existing on a sort of continuum, from recreational sport fucking on the one end of the spectrum, to love making on the other, with garden variety sex somewhere in the middle. Ha! As long as I know and feel in my soul that I am the primary and I am adored by my man and other people are just sexual beings for play and not anywhere near the "soul mate" that I am, I'm good. I'm pretty secure. I don't recall ever experiencing jealousy...

 

Here's where I become frustrated and confused.

 

About two months ago, I met and started seeing Dude from a traditional online dating site. (Protecting his privacy. :)) There was no mention of the LS, our profiles both read as though we were both looking for one person. I like him a lot, I think he's awesome, and unlike anyone I've ever met. I'm really excited about him. We've been having sex, it's fantastic, and I have no doubt it will only get better as we explore our fantasies. (I'm not tooting my own horn here, but sex has been what's kept all my relationships going long after they should have died...) We have not had any discussions about exclusivity or couplehood, I have no idea where he stands in that regard.

 

About 2-3 weeks ago, so like only after knowing this guy like 5-6 weeks, in a random conversation about porn, he brought up that he's into group sex. We're pretty open in our discussions about sex and fantasies, so it wasn't crazy or unusual to bring it up, but from there, every other conversation he's dropped in, somehow, some comment or innuendo about group sex or swinging. Essentially, he's made it clear the LS is something he's into, and something he wants to return to. He's been out of it for a year since he last had a partner, misses it, misses having regular couples on speed dial to swap with on the regular. I wouldn't say he's pressuring me, but he's being a little insensitive and a bit of a bozo in the way he's going about it, I think. As an example, over the course of a week: He randomly suggested in a text about being tired and whether to sleep or eat food, that I find and bring someone home for us to share (a threesome). A couple days later, we were going to spend time together this past weekend, and while I was waiting for him to arrive, as an apology for the delay, he randomly sent me a link to a porn video of a 4-some, ostensibly to keep me entertained until he got there. Hmph. A couple days later, when texting back and forth funny banter about a funny tattoo I saw, he randomly sent me a pic of another 4-some. Okay, okay. I get it. He wants to so some swinging and swapping. I get it. But the way he's going about communicating this... kinda hurts my feelings. I mean, sex and swinging seems to have taken over the focus of our fledgling relationship.

 

Am I being unreasonable here?

 

I mean, to me, what made the LS work in my second LS relationship was that we were ROCK SOLID. He was my man. I was his woman. We had each other's back. We were each other's lobster. We were in love and loved each other, and saw swinging as a couple who enjoys having sex... by having sex with each other most of the time, but by having sex as a couple with other couples sometimes too. We had rules to make that sexy time with other couples work. We had rock solid trust in one another. Our communication was above board and we could talk about anything and everything and there was never an ounce of judgment or fear - fantasies, secrets, fears, worries, insecurities, excitements, goals, desires, wonders, amusements, whatever. (If you're wondering why he's no longer around, he was KIA in Afghanistan.)

 

And I feel like this is what has to exist in any relationship for the LS to work - love, trust, communication. Basically, a real, solid foundation of a relationship. And we BUILT that type of relationship, that's why it worked, that's why it was all so fucking amazing.

 

But here, I feel like Dude is trying to go from zero to 60 in 5 seconds flat. Or zero to LS in 5 seconds flat. And it feels... strange. Like rather than wanting to build a relationship with me, I feel like I'm just the bait or lure or even like the entrance fee he's using to get himself back into the LS society/culture he misses so much. I mean, I do fit in. I'm hot, I'm sexy, I enjoy fucking, I'm uninhibited, my pussy is amazing... haha! But I'm not the bottle of wine you bring to a party. He and I should be THE party TOGETHER.

 

Also, in the very beginning of a relationship with someone new, aren't you trying to just figure out that person FIRST? Aren't you ravenously attracted to just that person while you build the foundation with that person? Maybe that's a fundamental difference between men and women, or maybe this is a "me" issue, where it's only after I feel a strong connection, a foundation of trust, love, and communication, and completely adored by my man that I am I open to welcoming other into my bed and my body...? But right now, his body is the only one I want to explore. His cock is the only one that the very thought of it makes me throb. His lips, his tongue, his hands, his fingers, are the only ones I want on me. I crave him, and him alone. I still have so much more exploring of HIM to do... his body, his desires, his thoughts, his wants, his history, his sense of humor, his heart, his soul, his veritable playground, what makes HIM him, without adding in other people into the mix while I'm figuring him out.

 

Similarly, how does he really figure *me* out, get to know me, build a foundation with me, if there are other people involved in the mix from pretty much the very beginning??

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a horndog, and still have sexual fantasies, so it's not like I don't get turned on at certain thoughts... but I just don't think jumping right into the LS with Dude is a good idea...? Or is it my experience that's limiting my frame of mind? But I also wonder if most couples would be down for what is tantamount to swinging with two singles - because, c'mon, that's what we are right now. He's so secretive...

 

I am definitely open to exploring the LS with him **someday**. I get the impression that he wants someday to be much sooner than later. But at the expense of what...?

 

I feel like I'm just being used as a sexual plaything, the way he'd use other couples as sexual playthings, when as a *partner* I should be treated as a partner, as something deserving of investment, commitment, and most importantly, care.

 

Help me manage this. Guide me. Anything. How can I talk to him about this without making him feel like he's doing something "wrong"? I think he's truly excited about the prospect of having found someone who's potentially open to the LS, and he's jumping on it without thinking... but I need him to slow his roll and get us back on track to building something real without taking the wind out of his sails.

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I didn't see you saying if you've told him of your past swinging experiences. If not, he may be feeling you out before wasting a lot of his time. He may just simply need to know you're in, if only later on, so he can know this is something with a future for him.

 

If you have told him and he's pushing too far, too fast, just tell him. If he doesn't understand then he's really not for you anyway, right?

 

You sound like a wonderful catch for any man who is open-minded and he needs to know and respect that, and you.

 

Good luck to you!

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I'll echo what ViSexual just said... the way to tell him is to tell him. Just say to him what you said to us. Say it calmly, clearly and with clothes on. Be firm without being accusatory or dismissive. If he's going to be able to handle the LS, he needs to be able to handle a conversation like this.

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Hello, SuzieG, and welcome to SwingersBoard!

 

Good on you for jumping right in with a question. And it's a serious question! I think you've gotten some good advice already.

 

I have often wondered how couples who are just starting out are able to be successful in the lifestyle, and keep their relationship strong. To share a sexual relationship (even at a casual, fun level) with people outside the two of you definitely takes a high level of trust in, and comfort with, each other. There are too many land mines out there, potential for hurt feelings, insecurities, or jealousy to creep in, for a couple to withstand if they don't already have a solid foundation. It takes, among other things, a habit of open, honest communication- and often that is not something that happens quickly in a relationship. So I agree with you that swinging at the embryonic stage of your relationship is fraught with dangers- especially given the concerns you've already expressed.

 

I just want to make an observation. You mentioned that you want to be able to talk to Dude without making him feel like he's doing something "wrong". But the reality is that he is doing some things that you feel are not right for you, at this stage in your relationship. There's nothing wrong with your expressing that thought to him- that you feel that swinging at this point is not the right thing to do for your relationship. I think you should feel free to own those feelings. Tell him what you think about swinging at this point, clearly and with the understanding that you are talking about how you feel, rather than expressing this as if it were an objective fact. Make sure that he understands that you are thinking about how to help build and strengthen your relationship together. Express your feelings of concern about being thought of as a plaything instead of a partner- and when you do, be sure to own those feelings and make it clear that you are relating how you feel, rather than coming across as blaming him for your perception.

 

By the way, he may continue harping on this topic because he's not sure he's gotten a clear answer from you about your interest. Are you responding to this in a coy, deflecting way? This is another good reason to do everything you can to tell him, wth compassion and sensitivity, but directly and completely, how you feel.

 

Good luck, and do let us know how this conversation goes!

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This relationship is still new. There is little to risk at this point. I suggest you either say to him what you wrote, or have him sit down and read that post. You never attack him, just his behaviors. Even if he doesn't have very thick skin, nothing that you said was hurtful, except what he is doing to you.

 

If he is aware of some of your past, he may just be trying to get you on board. Guys just charge forward with no fore thought. We assume sport sex is the same for everyone. We don't even recognize our own emotions until it's too late. Like all LS couples, communication is the about the only way it ever works. Men are from mars and all that stuff. Good luck! I hope it works out so you can get that amazing pussy out there to share again!:hahaha:

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I think relationships that we have later in life are much different than ones we have early in life. Unfortunately what we start looking for immediately later in life is the 'high' of relationship that we had very early in life.

 

From what I have read this is as much true for you as it is true for Dude. On the one had you say you are 'into it' but on the other you say not now and not with him?!?! Right now...but maybe in the future...but maybe not with him.

 

Frankly you can have any kind of feelings you want. Just understand that you are not being very cut and dry. Seems like you need to decide if a talk with him is worth it (what dating a few weeks? Right?). If it is you need to accept him as human just as he should accept you.

 

Anyhow time to 'man up' and decide whether to confront him directly with your concerns or not.

 

Good Luck Have Fun

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Hello everyone!! I am thankful for having found this forum. Any guidance you can provide is greatly appreciated!! :)

 

 

 

Help me manage this. Guide me. Anything. How can I talk to him about this without making him feel like he's doing something "wrong"? I think he's truly excited about the prospect of having found someone who's potentially open to the LS, and he's jumping on it without thinking... but I need him to slow his roll and get us back on track to building something real without taking the wind out of his sails.

 

What did he say when you told him all of this?

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First: :Welcome:

 

Second: It sounds like he is acting VERY immature...he mentioned something to you and you didn't shoot it down so (like a boy) he's charging full speed into it before you can change your mind or your answer.

 

Love, trust, communication...as you already know doesn't just happen. You need to be in a SOLID relationship for this to work and you just haven't had time for any of that to develop yet. Personally, I would put the emergency brake on and stop this now. He's more excited about the fantasy - what might happen, than working on being in a relationship with you. Let him know that you are not opposed to something happening IN THE INDEFINITE FUTURE, but NOTHING will be happening soon (at least the next year or two...just so he has a basic understanding that it will be awhile if ever). This will either cool his jets or send him on his way...and if he's going to go, if this is a deal breaker for him, the less time invested the better. Let him know that when and more importantly IF it is time to continue, you will bring it back up. If he starts pouting or pressuring, buh-bye. Everything you said (and we can only go on what you said) tells that he is just not grown up enough for a real, solid, loving relationship. Wish you luck but he needs to be sat down and have a good talking to. Let us know how things go.

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:Welcome: from Oklahoma, SuzieG! I think your communication with Dude is not sufficiently developed. My late wife and I made an agreement: that we would never become angry because a question was asked. You might ask Dude if he is willing to agree to that. If he is, y'all are on your way. If not, look for somebody else.

 

Thanks for an exceptional introduction! My best to you!

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What did he say when you told him all of this?

 

I haven't...? When you quoted was just a few hours after I posted. What you quoted is me asking for help on how to talk to him. So, I haven't talked to him about that yet.

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I didn't see you saying if you've told him of your past swinging experiences. If not, he may be feeling you out before wasting a lot of his time. He may just simply need to know you're in, if only later on, so he can know this is something with a future for him.

 

If you have told him and he's pushing too far, too fast, just tell him. If he doesn't understand then he's really not for you anyway, right?

 

I have told him, albeit briefly. He knows I've participated, and we had a discussion where I told him I prefer the experience to be one where it's at a distance, and a novelty and not something that's just as common as our own sex life, and moreseo with people you don't see repeatedly, as it's too dangerous... feelings can easily develop, etc. I physically demonstrated with body language, my hands out in the distance, saying, "I like to keep them over there, and us, over here." Like, I said something to the effect of, "I don't want these people in my backyard, to run into them at the grocery store and stuff." And his response was, "Oh no, I like to just have a few couples on speed dial to call up and fuck," and he in turn acted out the gesture of calling up a couple for play. And I said something to the effect of, "Mmmm, yeah, no." It wasn't dismissive, it was more of a negotiation.

 

I mean, I'm amenable and and open to considering it now, I'm not completely shut down to the idea. I was much more cautious before because of the military. Threat of prosecution for those involved was very real and not something I wanted to risk.

 

You sound like a wonderful catch for any man who is open-minded and he needs to know and respect that, and you.

 

Awwwww, thank you. :blush:

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Hello, SuzieG, and welcome to SwingersBoard!

 

Good on you for jumping right in with a question. And it's a serious question! I think you've gotten some good advice already.

 

I have often wondered how couples who are just starting out are able to be successful in the lifestyle, and keep their relationship strong. To share a sexual relationship (even at a casual, fun level) with people outside the two of you definitely takes a high level of trust in, and comfort with, each other. There are too many land mines out there, potential for hurt feelings, insecurities, or jealousy to creep in, for a couple to withstand if they don't already have a solid foundation. It takes, among other things, a habit of open, honest communication- and often that is not something that happens quickly in a relationship. So I agree with you that swinging at the embryonic stage of your relationship is fraught with dangers- especially given the concerns you've already expressed.

 

I just want to make an observation. You mentioned that you want to be able to talk to Dude without making him feel like he's doing something "wrong". But the reality is that he is doing some things that you feel are not right for you, at this stage in your relationship. There's nothing wrong with your expressing that thought to him- that you feel that swinging at this point is not the right thing to do for your relationship. I think you should feel free to own those feelings. Tell him what you think about swinging at this point, clearly and with the understanding that you are talking about how you feel, rather than expressing this as if it were an objective fact. Make sure that he understands that you are thinking about how to help build and strengthen your relationship together. Express your feelings of concern about being thought of as a plaything instead of a partner- and when you do, be sure to own those feelings and make it clear that you are relating how you feel, rather than coming across as blaming him for your perception.

 

By the way, he may continue harping on this topic because he's not sure he's gotten a clear answer from you about your interest. Are you responding to this in a coy, deflecting way? This is another good reason to do everything you can to tell him, wth compassion and sensitivity, but directly and completely, how you feel.

 

Good luck, and do let us know how this conversation goes!

 

Thank you for this, you expressed my feelings well, particularly about being at the "embryonic stage." I really do FEEL like I'm a plaything and not a partner, and that... stinks, and hurts, and I don't like it. And there are moments where I really do feel differently, and where I feel like he does care, and that I'm more than just a plaything. But then I think about the focus of our relationship, and it feels largely sexual. And I want it to be more than that. Much more than that. I'm SUCH a sexual person, but I want more than that from my PRIMARY relationship, and I want that from him.

 

You may be right in that some of my responses may have been a little coy. So we do need to have a more direct and open conversation, and I've asked him to talk about it next time we see each other, and he agreed. So that's a start. :)

 

One big question though, regarding the bolded: do you typically share sexual relationships with other couples that go beyond just the "fun, casual level"?? :confused:

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If he is aware of some of your past, he may just be trying to get you on board. Guys just charge forward with no fore thought. We assume sport sex is the same for everyone. We don't even recognize our own emotions until it's too late. Like all LS couples, communication is the about the only way it ever works. Men are from mars and all that stuff. Good luck! I hope it works out so you can get that amazing pussy out there to share again!:hahaha:

 

I think relationships that we have later in life are much different than ones we have early in life. Unfortunately what we start looking for immediately later in life is the 'high' of relationship that we had very early in life.

 

From what I have read this is as much true for you as it is true for Dude.

 

Yes, I agree with both of you. I think to a large extent he's just really... EXCITED. :) And I don't blame him, I'd be excited by me and swinging with me, too!!! ;)

 

On the one had you say you are 'into it' but on the other you say not now and not with him?!?! Right now...but maybe in the future...but maybe not with him.

 

Frankly you can have any kind of feelings you want. Just understand that you are not being very cut and dry.

 

Well, yeah... I mean, why would I be cut and dry? How can I know, right now, whether or not I want to engage in the LS with him? We don't have the foundation necessary yet. So yeah, it's a maybe. It's not a guarantee. I can take my interest back in swinging with him back at any time, just as anyone who's already in the LS or swinging with their partner can decide to stop... right?? :)

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Hi, SuzieG. Have you considered just showing him what you have written here? All of the above are your thoughts and concerns. Just be open and honest with him. Let him know what your hesitancy is that you two don't have that relationship foundation to explore the LS successfully. I think your fears are very real and very smart. Many young relationships cannot handle swinging right from the start because there isn't the necessary trust, love, communication, respect, and experience that you two can handle the "ups and downs" that only time can give you.

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Hi, SuzieG. Have you considered just showing him what you have written here? All of the above are your thoughts and concerns. Just be open and honest with him. Let him know what your hesitancy is that you two don't have that relationship foundation to explore the LS successfully. I think your fears are very real and very smart. Many young relationships cannot handle swinging right from the start because there isn't the necessary trust, love, communication, respect, and experience that you two can handle the "ups and downs" that only time can give you.

 

I suppose I could... Although I said more here than I would if he were in front of me right now. :/

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That's why showing him this can be a good thing: you can say things in writing that are easier to say than using words. Also it shows that you are not alone in your feelings, that others are agreeing with you. Before you can open your relationship up to others you first have to have a rock solid relationship and that just takes time and effort on everyone's part. If you are having problems talking with him, we're from CA too...how far away can you be :lol:. We'll sit him down and have a friendly talk with him. It sounds like he just needs to cool his jets a bit.

 

You sound like a wonderful catch for any man who is open-minded and he needs to know and respect that, and you.

 

We also agree...

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That's why showing him this can be a good thing: you can say things in writing that are easier to say than using words. Also it shows that you are not alone in your feelings, that others are agreeing with you. Before you can open your relationship up to others you first have to have a rock solid relationship and that just takes time and effort on everyone's part. If you are having problems talking with him, we're from CA too...how far away can you be :lol:. We'll sit him down and have a friendly talk with him. It sounds like he just needs to cool his jets a bit.

 

Probably not too far, we're also in NorCal. ;)

 

I don't know. I'm a very open person, I haven't censored myself at all. That's true. And admittedly, it's nice to have my feelings supported and validated. But I'm not sure it really matters right now...

 

Early Wednesday morning I'd messaged him saying we should actually talk about all of this. He agreed. Haven't heard from him since. And that's the thing. I've been leading the dating/relationship aspect of this 'thing,' and that's why I don't feel at all secure here. Three days with no word from the guy who expresses interest in threesomes and swinging. Another time, he went like 5 days. If I wasn't leading, he wouldn't be doing anything, making effort, investing his energy in me/us. I feel like a plaything and not someone he wants to build a partnership with. I'm not used to this. I'm not sure if I'm feeling this way because of what he's brought up and the timing of it, or if I'd be feeling that way anyway... I'm usually very easy going, and have so much going on I don't even notice when someone's MIA. But with him, I notice.

 

First and foremost, I want a loving, passionate, trusting primary relationship that is rock solid. And if it ultimately involves the LS once things are rock solid, then great. If not, that's okay too, it's not a *requirement* for me. (I've never met a man who wouldn't be down for a threesome eventually anyway, so I'm not too worried. :lol:) The LS is just that, a lifestyle... not an orientation. It's a hobby. And just as I could give up skiing if I moved to Africa or gave up the beach if I moved to Montana, so could I forego play. Because first and foremost my goal is to find "my person."

 

(But make no mistake, my person and I I gotta have an amazing, quality sex life, open to explore our fantasies and allathat...)

 

Anyway.

 

Funny too, ya know. When you find someone you really like, and who you're into, your energy really changes... like you radiate a sort of loving, happy, positive light. The universe knows it. Men know it. It's like they can all feel this feminine sexual energy. It happens every time...

 

We also agree...

 

Thank you. :blush:

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I guess I put the cart before the horse with all of this.

 

Not only is he not contacting me, but he's not responding to me, and I feel a little pathetic sitting over here... I suspect he's ghosted. I'd brought up the need to talk about our foundation as it relates to the LS, and he agreed. I also sent him the link to this thread. I guess he picked up on the obvious fact that I'm looking for a real relationship with someone, not just to fuck around... and that's probably not something he's interested in.

 

Not gonna lie, kinda stings. :(

 

I appreciate all of your kind support. You're a lovely group of people. Maybe I'll see ya 'round. :)

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We said it in our first post: Immature. You told him that you needed to talk about this and he bolted not wanting to hear what you had to say. If Ms. Gold were to tell me that she wanted to talk about something, I would do this ASAP. If there is an issue I want to deal with it as quickly as possible before it can become a big monster. Run and hide would NEVER cross my mind.

 

Sorry that things aren't working out for you but isn't it better to know now than to invest a bunch of time in this guy only to find out later? Something better will come along, and if you get tired looking in the mean time, come on over and we'll keep you 'amused'.

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I'm sorry that it stings right now for you, SuzieG. But I agree with GoldCo...at least you learned about this side of him sooner rather than later. It truly did sound like he wasn't the right guy for you. I do hope you find what you seek out there!

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SuzieG,

 

I'm sorry to hear that he has put up a wall, his loss. As a single male who was formally in the LS on a regular basis as a couple, I miss it also, but I'm older now and more patient now I guess. But looking at this situation from a male perspective, I want to throw this out there for your consideration in the event that you do hear from him again. Being a single male swinger sucks. Most clubs won't let you in, and meeting couples and single women is difficult just because there are so many single guys on swinger sites that are being total jerks. He may have been looking for a ticket into the clubs and couples more than a serious relationship. I'm not saying this is the case, but a possibility to consider.

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As a single male who was formally in the LS on a regular basis as a couple, I miss it also, but I'm older now and more patient now I guess. But looking at this situation from a male perspective, I want to throw this out there for your consideration in the event that you do hear from him again. Being a single male swinger sucks. Most clubs won't let you in, and meeting couples and single women is difficult just because there are so many single guys on swinger sites that are being total jerks. He may have been looking for a ticket into the clubs and couples more than a serious relationship. I'm not saying this is the case, but a possibility to consider.

 

I can understand the plight of single men in the LS, however, if that was his intent, he should have been upfront about it from the beginning instead of tip-toeing around the issue. Also, even though some single men are looking for a woman to join them in the LS, it's all in how they go about it as well. Some want to engage in couple play, however, some use the woman as a cheaper means (or only way) to get into parties and then dump her after paying/getting in the front door. There's also the "duped" feeling that some couples have when they realize that the "couple" isn't really a couple but really two singles.

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I can understand the plight of single men in the LS, however, if that was his intent, he should have been upfront about it from the beginning instead of tip-toeing around the issue. Also, even though some single men are looking for a woman to join them in the LS, it's all in how they go about it as well. Some want to engage in couple play, however, some use the woman as a cheaper means (or only way) to get into parties and then dump her after paying/getting in the front door. There's also the "duped" feeling that some couples have when they realize that the "couple" isn't really a couple but really two singles.

 

I agree completely, if this is the situation, he should have been upfront about it. I guess that is why I'm not on the normal dating sites. If someone is interested in me on a swinger site, then so be it. No lies. But with all the BS that I see out there, I mentioned it as a possibility of what was happening.

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