Update and now a problem

Once again the female half here. This is an update to our introduction. Over the last few weeks we have been soft swapping with a couple whom we know in our vanilla life. The first couple of times was fun but still kind of rough on my feelings. After the 2nd play date I was texting with the wife, and I ended up having a breakthrough on what my real problem was. For those who have not read my intro, I was essentially raped years ago the first time my husband and I tried a full swap. I have also been raped and molested twice prior to that when I was very young (11 and 15). All the time I was trying to sort out my feelings I was lying to myself about the issues I was having, I was trying to tell myself I was afraid of jealousy, feeling unwanted, feeling like I cheated and whatever else.

While those feelings made sense to the the other 3 involved they never fully made sense to me. It was because they weren't my issue. My real issue was my past. The past that I had worked for many years to overcome and not allow to control my life. Now it is trying to control this. Of course now I can overcome this and work through it now that I know what my real issue is. Anyways...we have continued to play with the couple over the last couple weeks and the last couple times my husband and I had been discussing full swap again. The idea, despite my past, excited me. Part of it just excited me for obvious reasons and part of it because I just wanted to push the envelope and see finally if it was for us. So last night we decided to go for it.

We started out great...soft swapping...hot and heavy feelings. The the other husband and I decided to jump in while my husband continued foreplay with his partner. That kind of bothered me, slight jealousy I suppose. Nothing real major so I let myself go. We ended up taking a quick smoke break (all four of us) and during that time my husband stayed near the other wife and then he started massaging her leg while absolutely nothing sexual was going on. That PISSED me off. I ended up sending my signal that I was upset by leaving the room..then literally wrapping myself in a ball, which my husband either ignored or didn't notice. This went on for a half hour or more and all the while I was pissed off and to be honest...hurt.

I created that break, if that makes any bit of sense, for my man and I to have a quick moment to reconnect and check in with each other. Whether that would be in the room or not I felt we needed that moment. We have been together 14 years, and we have discussed our signals, all of which were ignored. It hurt me to the point of almost tearing up.

Ok so of course the rest wanted to continue on to round 2, which I just said eff it let's go. Hoping maybe I'd get over it I guess...well my play partner had erection issues. So of course we couldn't continue so there I sit watching my husband fuck another woman and all of these feelings whirling through my head! Hell I was even slightly getting turned on, but could do nothing about it. Talk about a very bad experience! Which sucks because all of the prior experiences were overall great especially once I had my breakthrough. Finally I just told my play partner to just join his wife and my husband and I ended up rolling over.

What killed me the most was my husband had to be told by the other husband to come over to me and take care of me. WTF? That really made me feel ignored by my best friend. Like he couldn't see how upset I was. Like he really didn't give a crap. I literally cried at that point. When he came over I flat out told him I didn't want him near me if he didn't want to be with me. He stayed, we finished with each other; well he did, not me... Anyways, yes he knows some of my feelings, but he got called into work so we haven't had a chance to go over it all. We will once he gets off work.

I guess my question is has anyone had a boundary pop up that you never thought of until it happened? That was the leg rubbing while in a vanilla convo was for me...I never ever thought about something like that being a boundary. Hell even now it sounds incredibly stupid to me! Something so benign would piss me off so much, yet his face being buried in her pussy didn't bother me one bit! Or do you guys think it was really that I needed that connection moment to check in and the fact that never happened was really what pissed me off?

Either case we have decided that we need a break and time for us. No more playing for a bit. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Sorry it's so long lol.

Stop swinging...way too much going on here...wish you the best.

Also hope you are seeing a therapist to sort these issues out.

I am terribly sorry to hear about your past situations with being violated! I can't help but want to hurt people that do what was wrongly done to you. I have known far too many women in my life that have been long term mentally scarred by rape. I really hope that you are getting the help and support you need in your life to deal with it.

As for the lifestyle stuff I really think it is a good idea for you two to put the brakes on it. It isn't fair to you guys or the people you play with to go on without resolving the issues you are having.

I can understand you being upset with your husband for not noticing your signal, but try not to let it consume your relationship. I wasn't there so hard for me to say, but it is sometimes hard to notice your own partner when you are working on connecting with a play partner. It does not mean you are not still the most important person to him or he wants you less. It sounds like he might of felt like he had the green light from you, because you two agreed to take it there. It is really hard to have sex with someone new if you can't be a little touchy feely with them like he was doing touching her leg. It probably wasn't about hurting you and ignoring you to him. He was maybe just trying to be a good partner for the person he was playing with at the time.

I don't need a therapist, but thank you. I've seen a therapist before and all they really wanted to tell me was that I was a victim and I would never overcome things and that I would either end up in an abusive relationship or basically a whore because that is what rape does to women. Umm no. Bad things happen in life but the situations are not what make you. It's your reaction to the situations that shape you. Another therapist I had said I was smart beyond my years and that I was a better therapist than she was. And that I taught her a whole new thought process on how to help girls and women who had been raped. As far as quitting swinging altogether, I think we need a break to slow things down a bit and reconnect to why we wanted to try this in the first place. Will we quit and never do it again, maybe, maybe not but I'm not going to allow my past to dictate my life. No one should.

I don't think it is unusual at all. I think we all have experienced times in life where something hit us in a different way than we expected...assuming we had even thought of it at all to have formed any expectations. Those really are the hardest, because like you say, they just leave you feeling like you don't know what to think, what to do, what to say, what to feel, and how to handle all of those other emotions that go swirling around inside you. I think you've hit upon the right solution though, and that is to put things on hold until you have had an opportunity to together work through what happened and why. That might take more than one conversation about it. Talk about it, give what you each said some time to sink in, then go back and use that to talk about it again, and so on...keep peeling back the layers and you will eventually get to the heart of the problem.

Having known other people who have gone through similar things and having been through difficult issues (nowhere near as bad) myself, it really does sound like you should see a therapist. It sucks that the ones you have seen so far were so horrid, it sounds like that has turned you off the whole idea. It took a friend of mine years to find the right therapist, because there are a whole lot of really shitty ones out there. She had been through the same types of things and even had sworn off therapists and said she did not need them as you are. Then, she met a guy in a bar, who happened to be a very good therapist. They ended up not dating, and she ended up seeing him professionally and he really helped her a lot.

Just like bad mechanics, bad therapists are all over the place. It can take a while to find the right one, but it really sounds like what you need.

So basically everyone, but cplnuswing believes that I should be in therapy because that is what society sets as the standard. I posted about my past because I am comfortable with others knowing about my past. For everyone's information, there are other ways to deal with trauma. I chose to use my experiences to help others and learn from/teach others. Society has this belief that people who have been raped are victims, and that the act of being raped should ruin a person and their life. I chose to go against that and be a survivor and learn from my past and respect my past, but not let it dictate how I live my life. I learned a lot from my second therapist. And she learned from me. We taught each other. She set me up as an advocate for other SURVIVORS and had me help those women and men learn that they are not the victims that society believes they should be. We are survivors. We can and do overcome our past. Some of us take longer than others, but eventually we get there. I still to this day advocate for others when needed and that makes me so proud. The only way to change society's view of rape is to stand up and change it yourself. Honestly compare this and how you all are pushing me to therapy to the lifestyle. Society tells us that we shouldn't do it and that monogamy is the only way...but you don't listen to that because it is not for you. The same applies to me. I go against it because it isn't for me. I have my own ways, please respect that as I respect you. Thank you.

I think it's just outside of my zone to help?! Which is why I then recommend a therapist. I also have been heavily involved with traumatized people and it is not uncommon for them to see a therapist on and off for the rest of their lives. Kinda like a diabetic that needs insulin. Honestly the recommendation was only to assist you and not pigeon hole you.

As far as the swinging component of this I would like to ask why you needed to 'jump into the deep end' with the full swap. I couldn't do that initially, my wife couldn't, and I think most people start off with a bit of soft swap(wading in the pool, so to speak) before going into the deep end.

What are you looking to get out of non-mongamy? What would have made that a hot exciting experience rather than a traumatic one?

In regards to you partner not being there for you, it happens. You really need to be aware during that kind of situation that you need to take care of yourself. I keep an eye out for what is going on with my wife, but it is just not possible for me to 'step in' sometimes. Or even know what is going on. Frankly you need to keep an eye on your SO as well?? If you feel like you need a time out and some help, you need to ask for it.

So what's the next step?

So basically everyone, but cplnuswing believes that I should be in therapy because that is what society sets as the standard. I posted about my past because I am comfortable with others knowing about my past. For everyone's information, there are other ways to deal with trauma. I chose to use my experiences to help others and learn from/teach others. Society has this belief that people who have been raped are victims, and that the act of being raped should ruin a person and their life. I chose to go against that and be a survivor and learn from my past and respect my past, but not let it dictate how I live my life. I learned a lot from my second therapist. And she learned from me. We taught each other. She set me up as an advocate for other SURVIVORS and had me help those women and men learn that they are not the victims that society believes they should be. We are survivors. We can and do overcome our past. Some of us take longer than others, but eventually we get there. I still to this day advocate for others when needed and that makes me so proud. The only way to change society's view of rape is to stand up and change it yourself. Honestly compare this and how you all are pushing me to therapy to the lifestyle. Society tells us that we shouldn't do it and that monogamy is the only way...but you don't listen to that because it is not for you. The same applies to me. I go against it because it isn't for me. I have my own ways, please respect that as I respect you. Thank you.

You say this, you say you don't let it dictate your life, but clearly it does. Just reading you OP I can tell that there are things affecting you that likely no one here is qualified to help you with. You are clearly seeking help and guidance, just by coming here. Your actions are proving what you are saying wrong. Sorry, that's how I see it.

Also, I do not say this because that is what society thinks. In my experience, therapy is actually looked down on by most of society. When I was seeing a therapist, and friends and co-workers found out about it, they immediately treated me differently, distancing themselves from me. Co-workers and friends and family could not even understand why I needed help and why I could not sort things out on my own or with them. Society told me NOT to see a therapist. So no, I am not saying this because it is what society dictates. I am saying this because it seems like you really need it. You describe your actions, then your thoughts, and they contradict each other. That's something that needs to get sorted out and it's not the type of thing you can do by yourself. Trust me, I am no rape victim, but I have dealt with some pretty serious shit in my life.

Soft swapping / your husband's foreplay was making you uncomfortable, slightly jealous?

Pissed off enough because your husband was just rubbing the other lady's leg during a smoke break to send you to your signal of being upset by leaving the room?

And he missed the signal(s)? (If he was balls deep in the other woman at that moment, maybe he should get a pass on not noticing, if not then maybe he should have seen your signal.)

And you curled up into a ball feeling hurt? (Were you crying?)

Whoa up theeeere, Nelly! Stop, do not pass the "Go" square! NO! NO! NO!

No matter how much you want to say "I overcame" you've seem like you have some shit to sort out around your backgound/ history and your and your husband's relationship.

And your discomfort might not even be because of your prior trauma, you might be someone who just can't be able to swing, accept swinging, to enjoy swinging. Look, 98% of most people DON'T swing.

Maybe your "I am survivor" attiude is pushing you to do attempt swinging (along with your husband)? If that is the case, then why don't you allow yourself to be gangbanged by 4 or more vetted guys while your husband watches? Wouldn't that prove that you are a survivor, to show that you have overcome?

I wrote this extremely crude example of a gangbang get you to think about what you're REALLY comfortable with doing or NOT doing. To figuratively throw cold water in your face. As much as you respond and write about being survivor, it comes off as a hard shell protecting your inner hurt self.

And I, as an open minded, caring person who happens to be involved with swinging activities, doesn't want you to suffer any more stress or trauma trying to prove to yourself that you've survived.

You have survived. No level of swapping partners for kissing to fucking is needed to prove that.

Take my words for what you want; consider me as either, neither, or both combined an angel and/or an asshole. But know that I care...

econo of econo and Red

My wife had similar issues with seeing me be affectionate with another woman. I now wish that I'd known about MFM threesomes back during those few years so long ago. We even had a single male friend (he had a girlfriend or two to join him with couples) who we both liked a lot. If I could go back, I'd have suggested inviting him to join us alone. I know he'd have loved that.

You just might talk to your husband about that possibility. Find a man you both trust, like, and that you find appealing. Get used to having others join the two of you sexually without the negative stimulation of another woman with your husband. If your husband is like most of us husbands, he'll be turned on by it more than he might think.

Then, after you're more experienced, and comfortable, try another couple again.

Just a thought. And, btw..., I really admire your willingness to try this. And, no, I don't think you really need therapy. You sound like you are able to sort through your thoughts, fears, and even your past, without help from a shrink.

I have two things to say. First this has happened to me a couple of times, where I have been jealous and insecure over the smallest thing which triggered me at the time. The good news is that if you are good communicators and are emotionally intimate enough to work through it, then you will get passed it. Both me and MR G have occasional 'freak out' moments and it's OK. We deal with it and move on and it gets easier.

I ended up sending my signal that I was upset by leaving the room..

Secondly, This is not a good signal! You need to find another one that can't be misunderstood or ignored. Find a verbal code or signal and there's nothing wrong with saying out loud, I need X right now even in the middle of playtime. I have bolted from many situations thinking that MR G would realise that I was not comfortable only to have massive arguements later about how he ignored me...not cool! Now I just say out loud for all parties to here..."I need you" and in my experience, play partners respect that. I decided some time ago that if I can't be honest about how I feel and what I need in these situations then I shouldn't be in them.

Yes, stop swinging . You have interpersonal issues and interpersonal concerns. In short, you're playing with fire. As far as therapists, you need a good one and I encourage you to seek an excellent one. You think you have control and that you're in control and frankly, that's the first indication that you don't. In some ways you're determined to be the survivor of your violent experiences by going out and having sex and declaring,"See, I'm not a victim." All our hopes for you.

The more I think about this, the more problems I see. The whole, "I am not a victim, I am a survivor," thing, just sounds like denial. Rape is a crime, and you were on the receiving end of it, that makes you a victim. The same way someone who falls prey to a scam is a victim of the scam or someone who has their house bromen in to is the victim of a robbery. Victim is a legal term that can not be changed and if you were raped, then you are a victim of rape.

Now, does not mean you need to act like a victim? Does that mean you made yourself a victim? Does it mean you need to make yourself a victim in the future? No. However, you were a victim of rape and denying that, trying to say you were not, is like covering it up. It happened, accept it, don't deny it. The way you are looking at things is only going to make things worse and that's what therapy is being recommended.

Being a man I can tell you that sometimes when the 'little head' takes over, the 'big head' doesn't notice things that it normally would easily do. What you should have done (and do in the future) is have a phrase that tells him 'something is wrong, take a break NOW'. Also, I can only assume that the other couple doesn't know about your past bad experience (?). If we were the other couple involved, I know that we would be constantly 'checking in' with you to make sure you were doing okay. If you want to continue on this path with this couple, you should all have a talk about this so everyone is on the same page. Oh, and the other man having 'problems', that isn't anything personal and shouldn't be taken as such. It happens, more often than we want it to. Still, if everyone knows what is going on, I think it would be easier for...well, everyone. Talk about it and let them know. If they are not understanding and helpful, then they are not a good couple to continue with.

Ive not had any past trauma, or rape in my past. However, I have had a similar scene. My mate couldn't get hard, so while we kiss ect, my husband is fucking the other, they finish, he never checks in on me, ect, he was totally fixed on her, and he puts his arm around her and she lays on his chest. That was vanilla shit hits the fan moment for me. We all have things that triggers that, something that was never discussed, not even though of until I saw it happen. We live and learn I guess. Since then we fuck in the bed, that is it. I made it clear nothing intimate that I felt was an expression of our love, like cuddling was a go for us. We've been testing out swing for 2 years now, we play and break and play and break, we've yet to have a good full swap night, always an issue to arise. So I can't say we were swingers or not at this time, we just take it day by day. But when we have issues a long break is needed to clear the air and reconnect. Best of luck to you

Okay maybe this makes me an asshole, but as far as the people complaining about the other guy not being able to stay hard I just need to say there is no way in hell I am going to be hard when the person I am trying to play with is completely consumed with what their partner is doing with the other woman. I am also not a robot that gets hard at the site of a women with their legs spread. If there is no passion and want on their part I would rather be somewhere else no matter what they look like. I get that everyone does things the way they are comfortable with, but neither one of us enjoys playing with people that we can not have any intimacy with. It is why we don't play with people that have no kissing rules.