New here. Looking for advice.

My wife and I have been swinging for about a year, we have had alot of fun, it has been a good experience and we enjoy the LS. Earlier in our adventure she went on a vanilla bachelorette party and ended up kissing some guy. I had my issue with it as he was unknown to us and I was uncomfortable with the safety position she put herself in. We worked through it quickly. She understood my concerns and felt remorse. This helped us establish new rules. Fine, done, pretty simple.

Here is where I need help. Last weekend she was invited to an all girls LS party. She is bi and had my permission to play as I know all the women. Turns out, unknown to us, a male was invited to this party. When she arrived she had already had a few drinks and continued to do so. As the night went on she ended up giving him a BJ with two other women and he went down on her. This is a direct violation of our rules. No play with people the other partner does not know and give permission for and no play separately (the girl party being the one exception...with girls only as it was not expected a male would be there). When I picked her up I asked her how her night was and asked "there were no men there right?" She told me yes, there was one who was invited by another girl. I asked if She did anything and she told me immediately. I lost it, I felt like my heart was ripped out. After some strong emotional talk I asked if he went down on her and she said yes. She wasn't going to lie. At this point i felt like my wife of 20 years was lost to me.

She is regretful, she is sorry, she knows what she did is wrong. She has shed tears with me and says she is ashamed in herself and cannot understand how she justified what she did in the moment. I do believe her. We're swingers, sex outside of each other is not the issue. Betrayal is the issue. I read another similar post where the wife hid the information from the husband and fortunately this was not the case. But where do I go from here? I am trying to figure out what I should feel, how i should proceed? Is this just a simple breaking of rules, which we all have experienced or is this bigger? I have no one to talk to about this.

Please help.

Thank you sunbuckus. I agree with the alcohol statement and it was actually a conversation we had together already. We are a very strong couple and I actually feel wrong in having feelings about this. I feel like we entered into a liberating lifestyle so what the hell is my problem? That being said, i cannot ignore my emotional response to it. Obviously there is something there. As you mentioned, perhaps it is internal.

After reading your response it got me thinking of why it may have upset me. Something I was thinking about a bit earlier was about my occasional performance anxiety. I have had some epic play sessions and some where I wasn't "up" to the task. Don't get me wrong, I am told I am very talented and NEVER let that stop me or the partner from having a great time, but it has affected my confidence. When I heard what else this guy was doing (with other women at the party) it gave me a pang of envy. I was invited to another LS girls event to "strip". I knew what that meant, I knew I would have been in the position that he was in that night. Two things, one, I didn't think I was up for it due to my confidence and two, I am unwilling to play without my wife. I think a large part of my feeling may be tied to that......Thank you for helping me see this

Me and Mrs. cplnuswing have always been good to communicate, and that's been true with swinging also. That has helped us avoid many problems before they became problems, but like sunbuckus said, things do happen. There was a night which also involved too much alcohol and some boundaries being broken. The next day I made a lame attempt at giving my side of the story, and the reason it was a lame attempt is deep down I knew I didn't have a leg to stand on. I quickly gave up that approach and went with a heartfelt apology and a promise that it wouldn't happen again. I ended that with an "Everything ok then?" and the response I got was a half-smile and a "it will be".

What that meant was not that it was going to be held over my head and brought back up later (and in fact never has been), rather that my apology was accepted, but she was still perturbed about it, and that because we love and care about each other that would soon pass.

So, this too will pass. Anger and hurt don't instantly and magically disappear even with the most heartfelt of apologies. But, it puts you on the path for that, and as long as both are willing to recognize and accept that reality, then that path will be a short one.

You've been given very good advice.

We have experienced breaking of rules as cplnuswing describes. There is hurt, but we've grown closer through understanding, forgiving and moving on. I'm sorry you're going through this hurt and I hope you two grow closer as a result.

I'm glad you are looking inward. I'd also suggest considering why it was fine for her to play with women that night, but not a man. Clearly, she broke a rule and that was wrong because you two had agreed to it. But, why is there a gender inequality rule? Do you feel a man is more of a threat to your relationship? Could she fall for a man, but not a woman?

I went back and read again your OP, I see you knew all the girls, not sure about the guy? Would you feel the same if a new girl was there and your wife played with her?

I have experienced in the past that my husband will not want me to do something "for safety reasons". When we talk more it comes down to insecurity or feeling left out. I'm not saying this is the case with you, but when you talk about the previous incident of her kissing a man and safety concerns, that made me think of us.

I'm glad you are here and look forward to hearing more from you on the forums.

You've been given very good advice.

 

I'm glad you are looking inward. I'd also suggest considering why it was fine for her to play with women that night, but not a man. Clearly, she broke a rule and that was wrong because you two had agreed to it. But, why is there a gender inequality rule? Do you feel a man is more of a threat to your relationship? Could she fall for a man, but not a woman?

 

I went back and read again your OP, I see you knew all the girls, not sure about the guy? Would you feel the same if a new girl was there and your wife played with her?

 

I have experienced in the past that my husband will not want me to do something "for safety reasons". When we talk more it comes down to insecurity or feeling left out. I'm not saying this is the case with you, but when you talk about the previous incident of her kissing a man and safety concerns, that made me think of us.

You are correct, we do not know the man at all, by her own admission, she cant even remember his name. I had said to her, if that was one of the husbands that I know and trust, it would have been a very different story. Knowing the people we play with is a big deal to me. I need to know that the people we get into bed with are of good moral character and practice safety in the LS. He was brought in by one of the ladies I know the least so that also probably plays apart in the uncertainty.

I do think there may still be some feelings insecurities and of being left out but they are certainly trumped but what I consider one of out most important rules. No strangers.

I am so glad I came across this site. I posted this question on another site with no response. Not only that, the content of the other site seemed like it was run by teenagers based on maturity.

You have all helped me quite a bit so far. Thank you all.

I don't think I can add much more than has already been said, excellent advice has been given, but just wanted to give some encouragement and let you know you can get through this. It may take time, but you will.

We recently had our first swap and there were some jealousy issues we had to get over and it was rough. It happens though. As long as you both understand each other and talk about it, it will get better.

Branigan, I'm so glad that you asked this question. And I agree that you have gotten some sage advice!

It's also great that you two have used this incident as an opportunity to examine both of your thoughts and feelings, and to honestly express them. In that sense, this has been a positive learning experience!

You mentioned the alcohol, and you're right that it likely played a big role in your wife going beyond the limits you two had discussed. But it may be worth you two shining a little extra light in this area anyway. Is there something else in her feelings about this that is lurking in her mind? Does she secretly chafe a little at the "no strangers" rule, or perhaps wish you would trust her judgement more? Granted, that's a difficult point to make when a person has exhibited alcohol-infused decision-making, but a question perhaps worth exploring. Also, would she welcome the freedom to play separately, and wish that you would be open to that as well?

On your side of things, I think it's great that you have examined your feelings and reactions honestly. I would not give yourself any grief about your feelings in response to her breaking this rule. Everybody has complex motivations and factors that drive their feelings, and sometimes they are not always easy to explain or understand, and not always entirely rational! I hope you give each other permission to go ahead and have the feelings you feel, and talk about them without feeling pressured to justify them.

I think that swinging is kind of like the relationship equivalent of walking a tightrope. It's a delicate balance, definitely exhilarating, and sometimes risky. But good, solid communication, like you two seem to have, is like stretching a safety net below the rope- yes, you may fall sometimes, but having that net below you means that the fall won't be fatal!

Everybody makes mistakes...making the same mistake over and over? The other partner is the problem.

As far as 'alcohol' is concerned? I would like to share a little story. It was midnight and I was alone in Vegas. I was on my third or fourth Martini, when two gorgeous hooker's sat next to me and offered a threesome. One looked just like my teenage girl friend. I knew then that was the time I needed to go to bed, alone.

I would be more worried about what she hasn't told you as what she has?

I am kinda feeling if a woman posted something similar regarding her husband the rhetoric here would be different.

Learned this when I was just a boy: Making a mistake the first time is an accident. Making the same mistake again is an 'on purpose' because I had already learned that it was a mistake the first time but did nothing to prevent it from happening again.

I think the big mistake here was her attending a party on her own, if you are at a party together then you are less likely to have a problem like this.

Why would she be going to a party without you? I can't imagine going to a party without my wife, what would be the point?

 

I would be more worried about what she hasn't told you as what she has?

 

I appreciate your response but I can tell you with 100% certainty, there is NOTHING she does not tell me and vice versa. Even if she did lie, I'd know, we grew up together, we know each other inside and out.

I think the big mistake here was her attending a party on her own, if you are at a party together then you are less likely to have a problem like this.

 

Why would she be going to a party without you? I can't imagine going to a party without my wife, what would be the point?

This was supposed to be a girls only weekend get away, she went on the second night as she was invited. A different guest invited the man and they all agreed to it. When my wife arrived, he was there. If this was a mixed LS party, there is no question, I would have been there.

So then this was just a misunderstanding and (from the sound of it) all is good. You've both learned and will be better prepared if something similar happens again in the future. I'm hoping that you both have talked about this and been able to set it all aside (sounds like you have). We hope that things go smoother in future encounters...

So then this was just a misunderstanding and (from the sound of it) all is good. You've both learned and will be better prepared if something similar happens again in the future. I'm hoping that you both have talked about this and been able to set it all aside (sounds like you have). We hope that things go smoother in future encounters...

Nail on the head here. Yes. We are good. Thank you

That she was honest & up front about the rules violation says a lot about the strength of your relationship. I dont think you have much to worry about.

It's refreshing to find couples that can get over these things - and i take it it will be a great learning curve for both of you.

I know some times the wife gets caught up in the moment and before she knows it - well it's done lol. it's some thing that she is now saying stop to and feels confident in doing so.

She says some times it's like you suddenly realize this is not on but she finds it hard to stop because she then feels silly in front of that person. ( but she's like this in and out of the bedroom )

because i know that we work on it and the more confident she gets the easier it is ( in and out of the bedroom )

this lesson that will server both of you well - good luck in the LS

regards

It's pretty poor form by the girl who invited the guy isn't it?

I mean if all the other husbands (assuming the other girls are married) were led to believe it was girls only then I can imagine there might be a few pissed off husbands

Hun, as it turns out they must have invited a man.

Please advise what you would like me to do as it's now violating our rules of only playing together.

This is what the text or phone message should have been.....any thing else was cheating....plain and simple. This was not a heat of the moment thing, she new when she got there and didn't say a word. She literally knew she the moment she saw him she was going to cheat.

Telling him at least she told you, is absolute bullshit,, unless your pre determined rules were just guidelines, at least she told you is like saying as long as you tell me, NO RULES APPLY. Really!

I'm beginning to believe this site isn't about swinging at all, swinging can be done without lies and cheating. No this site is about people justifying why they're staying with spouse who knowingly cheat and worse know they can and get away with it.

Dude she lied and cheated by not calling you at the moment she got there, paint it any color you like.

Divdia

You are right I thought the same the difference is while she did cheat/broke rules - these two are willing to work it out and not end a marriage over it.

That is part of the LS when things like this happen - does it make her habitual cheater looking to screw anything that has two legs - well the husband will find that out over time - I think any one should have a chance at lest once - but if it becomes a habit then out the door.

And let face it the OP had to ask her about any guys there and if she did any thing - what would of happened if he did not bring it up.

If they can get over it then I wish them well.

Regards

Just my opinion, heat of the moment = possibly forgiven.

Arriving and realizing in advance of any play and then still playing = pre meditated cheating.

Very, Very different things!

I'm not saying leave her but everyone here seems to take the stance of quickly sweeping it under a rug and forgive = Bullshit

This wasn't just a moment of weakness buddy,it's not like in a group setting she touch someone or something that was against your rules, she knew when she got there that he was their and not only still went through knowingly violating your rules but actually made it far worse by playing with him!! She knew that you would be hurt. Selfish, Selfish cheater!!

It's pretty poor form by the girl who invited the guy isn't it?

I mean if all the other husbands (assuming the other girls are married) were led to believe it was girls only then I can imagine there might be a few pissed off husbands

Agreed, it was in poor form and there has been a girls night since where this was a rule. I was not the only husband in this situation and not the only one who was upset. That being said, this is all water under the bridge at this point.

This wasn't just a moment of weakness buddy,it's not like in a group setting she touch someone or something that was against your rules, she knew when she got there that he was their and not only still went through knowingly violating your rules but actually made it far worse by playing with him!! She knew that you would be hurt. Selfish, Selfish cheater!!

I have to say that your perspective on all this is quite strange to me. You seem angry as if you are channeling a personal experience, not saying you are, just a vibe. She is NOT a cheater, this was NOT premeditated. This was a heat of the moment thing and a rule was broken. Hell, I have broken a rule too where she was upset. Communication of feelings, emotions and desires is how to progress. Jumping to conclusions and labeling my partner something she is not is not healthy or productive.

We have been doing this a while and know that rules can and will be broken from time to time. It has happened to us and to every single person we have met...which is a large network of people. With all due respect, I get the feeling you are new to this. You may want to be a little more flexible should a rule (big or small) be broken between you and your partner. It's not an if but a when. How you handle it at that moment is a testament to the strength of the relationship.

That all being said, I appreciate your perspective and comments.

Divdia

 

 

And let face it the OP had to ask her about any guys there and if she did any thing - what would of happened if he did not bring it up.

 

 

Regards

To be fair, I picked her up the next morning and started asking questions immediately. This was one of my first questions. During our discussions she swore she was going to tell me anyway but I had asked before she had a chance. I take her for her word on this. Also, we have well gotten over this. This issue is LONG done.

I'm glad you guys worked it out

I'm glad you guys worked it out

Thank you...it didn't take long. We are very communicative. Old post but still nice to hear peoples perspective.

Branigan

Like I said in my 1st post I am really happy that such thing can be worked out - it does give anyone going though the same thing hope that a long standing marriage can withstand the events of your post.

But you have to be honest as well - you had the rules she knows your feelings on other matters (from other posts of yours) and the on single men all tell me that your wife and yourself need to really talk about her actions (from the post you have put up here) since it's not just a one off, it's becoming a pattern.

You say girls only, she does a guy and got oral sex from him, you say I'm not sure about the single guy, she's upset but still gets to make out with him and other stuff. Now I hope and really do think yes you guys can work it out not don't just give in as this will breed resentment in time to come.

The way I see it is she went to the night out, seen this guy (he's not the single guy is he?), broke your agreement then cries because you are hurt, I mean WTF?

She did not go there and trip over someone as she entered the room and fell on his cock with two other girls doing the same did she?

I can see how now your agreement meant so much to her (fuck your feeling you're only the man right) as they got up after that mishap the floor was that slippery that she feel on her back and he followed ending up on her still wet pussy but it was not oral he was trying to use his nose to get up out of there when that did not work he tried with his tongue - it must of been awful for her right.

The above is to show you that you guys need to start talking about what you really want from this and you need to explain just how hurt by it all.

I see you say you have worked it out - I really do (even after running my mouth off) really hope you have and can work every thing out - I know it may not sound like it but my 1st post stands.

regards

Branigan

 

Like I said in my 1st post I am really happy that such thing can be worked out - it does give anyone going though the same thing hope that a long standing marriage can withstand the events of your post.

 

But you have to be honest as well - you had the rules she knows your feelings on other matters (from other posts of yours) and the on single men all tell me that your wife and yourself need to really talk about her actions (from the post you have put up here) since it's not just a one off, it's becoming a pattern.

 

You say girls only, she does a guy and got oral sex from him, you say I'm not sure about the single guy, she's upset but still gets to make out with him and other stuff. Now I hope and really do think yes you guys can work it out not don't just give in as this will breed resentment in time to come.

 

The way I see it is she went to the night out, seen this guy (he's not the single guy is he?), broke your agreement then cries because you are hurt, I mean WTF?

She did not go there and trip over someone as she entered the room and fell on his cock with two other girls doing the same did she?

 

I can see how now your agreement meant so much to her (fuck your feeling you're only the man right) as they got up after that mishap the floor was that slippery that she feel on her back and he followed ending up on her still wet pussy but it was not oral he was trying to use his nose to get up out of there when that did not work he tried with his tongue - it must of been awful for her right.

 

The above is to show you that you guys need to start talking about what you really want from this and you need to explain just how hurt by it all.

 

I see you say you have worked it out - I really do (even after running my mouth off) really hope you have and can work every thing out - I know it may not sound like it but my 1st post stands.

 

regards

You are drawing parallels between two separate issues on two separate posts. This post, which was was back in March has nothing to do with her chatting with this single guy. There is no pattern. Had I asked her to cease communication with him and it continued you would have a point but that is not the case. She has my permission to talk with him. My only requirement was that she disclose to him that play is off the table at this time, which she has done and he acknowledges. Without argument, with understanding.

The point you are trying to make about our communication although appreciated is moot. Again, the timing of my posts is important here. Our discussions on singles came up initially BECAUSE of that night. Not before. That incident spawned many discussions of our comfort levels and new rules we have to put in place. I get from your comments you don't think I have been vocal or honest to her about how I felt about that night. Believe me, she knows, I am not a man who hides his feelings. BUT, once we are past an issue, I will not be pulling it back to throw in her face. We are past this issue. There is nothing more to re-hash.

No worries, I was really trying to say (in a sarcastic way) to you is that you matter more than the play dates or should - and if you're going to "fix" things then while it's a great thing to do and I do really think it's a good thing.

You also need to accept what the events were. The way I see it from your post only is that her lust out-weighed your feels and agreement. And really it sounds from the other post that is the way it is now. Let's ask this if you were doing something and she was not ok for what ever reason would you still do it?

Your feelings matter as much as hers.

It's not good to say OK we fixed it up now and then move forward if the real issue (her not thinking about her marriage partner).

So let me just say once again I am happy for you and your wife to have worked it out - just remember you're in a team not there to take one for the team.

Regards

First let me apologize for being so brutal in my previous post, you were right on the money with my comment and it was uncalled for, that being said, in your own words "I felt my heart being ripped out" " I felt my wife of 20 yrs was lost " the two of you cried together over this. Are these are very strong betrayal feelings and no matter what everybody else says here you have a right to them their yours. I may have overreacted but something tells me you may be underreacting and not being completely honest about your feelings. I think you're handling your feelings better than I did but part of that might be because you're not being as honest about your feelings since I think I was. Truly buddy best of luck

On 3/8/2016 at 8:16 PM, cplnuswing said:

Me and Mrs. cplnuswing have always been good to communicate, and that's been true with swinging also. That has helped us avoid many problems before they became problems, but like sunbuckus said, things do happen. There was a night which also involved too much alcohol and some boundaries being broken. The next day I made a lame attempt at giving my side of the story, and the reason it was a lame attempt is deep down I knew I didn't have a leg to stand on. I quickly gave up that approach and went with a heartfelt apology and a promise that it wouldn't happen again. I ended that with an "Everything ok then?" and the response I got was a half-smile and a "it will be".

 

What that meant was not that it was going to be held over my head and brought back up later (and in fact never has been), rather that my apology was accepted, but she was still perturbed about it, and that because we love and care about each other that would soon pass.

 

So, this too will pass. Anger and hurt don't instantly and magically disappear even with the most heartfelt of apologies. But, it puts you on the path for that, and as long as both are willing to recognize and accept that reality, then that path will be a short one.

Badgers wife
 

But don’t you believe that the first time can be a mistake but the second time it’s probably not a mistake even if alcohol is involved just a question. 

On 3/26/2016 at 4:22 AM, GMOFLEISURE said:

That she was honest & up front about the rules violation says a lot about the strength of your relationship. I dont think you have much to worry about.

Badgers wife,
 

Question? Don’t you think it would’ve been probably easy for him to find out since they were over 20 women that were there that he knew personally. I don’t think she really had a choice other than to come clean and tell him what it took place. It is good that she did but Inevitably he would’ve found out unless all the women decided to keep everything hush-hush.