Jump to content
Guest Dragondance

First experience really sucked, now what?

Recommended Posts

Guest Dragondance

So after almost a year of discussion, my wife and I had our first soft swap the other night. It was going to be a full swap, but it didn't go well. We didn't have good communication between the two of us, and ultimately we ended putting ourselves in the position where we were both "taking one for the team", as neither one of us was into the other couple. Through some mistakes made on my part, namely having 3.5 drinks instead of my typical 2, and inviting the other man to swap sides of the booth and sit next to my wife while I sat next to his, he pushed himself on my wife and started making out with her without her consent. I looked over and was surprised to see this, thought my wife was into it, and immediately the guy's wife had her tongue down my throat. My wife saw this and thought I was into it, so it was off to the races, with both of us trying to please the other by going with the flow. The night progressed very fast, and next thing we knew we were in a bedroom together. Within seconds he was naked with his hard cock in my extremely attractive wife's face, and I was there with his wife who I wasn't attracted to, and I was unable to achieve an erection. My wife had no idea until his wife said something to the whole group about it. I still tried to give it a go for a while, but when the guy made a move to put his dick in my wife I called timeout and ended the whole thing.

 

My wife and I discussed it later, and there wasn't any jealousy on either of our parts until I realized I wasn't going to be able to even get an erection and was going to be stuck watching my wife get fucked while I stood there feeling quite unmanly. I would honestly say it was less jealousy on my part and more just declaring this was not a swap at all and ending it. My wife and I both realize the mistakes we made, me especially, and wouldn't make those same mistakes again. We have talked about how to communicate signals to one another, and have promised to absolutely not "take one for the team" ever again.

 

All that said, I am feeling a bit emasculated at this point. My wife was disappointed that I allowed him to just muscle his way into being naked and shoving his dick in her face, when she expected I would be with her first. I'm disappointed in myself for exactly the same reason, just losing control of the situation and not taking her in hand.

 

We have a Dom/sub relationship, not just BDSM but our relationship overall, and I feel like I've let her down. I pushed us into doing this, and now I feel like less of a man for it, like I dragged her into something I couldn't handle, and then left her alone in the middle of it. I want to somehow win back my dignity with her, and prove my worth. She doesn't ask for this, it's just what I want to do for her.

 

She doesn't want to swing, and she doesn't like other guys. She does it all for me, and it's my selfish desire to fuck other women that's caused this whole mess. Apparently my dick has very different opinions than I do as to what's acceptable, and I am genuinely at a loss. I don't know how to be monogamous and I most certainly cannot deal with that kind of situation again. It seems like all the other swinger guys just love watching their wives get fucked regardless of what's happening for them, but I definitely don't.

 

What the hell am I supposed to do? I don't think I'm cut out for monogamy, swinging seems stupid for both of us, and now I'm just a slutty guy madly in love with the woman of his dreams and stuck in a pattern of sexual openness that I don't know how to overcome. Is there really such thing as people who don't like "swinging" but might be open to the idea of having sex with friends?

Share this post


Link to post

Well, it seems like a there are number of things all piled up here... I will give you some frank feedback, and I hope you understand that my intent is to be constructive.

 

I think you know the most basic problem here. She doesn't want to be a swinger!! Swinging, or really any human activity for that matter, should be done voluntarily. If you knew that she was not actually interested in trying out the swinging lifestyle, and you used your dominant role in your relationship to push her into it, then you have done a huge disservice to your wife, and to your relationship.

 

I'm no expert on Dom/sub relationships, but from the little that I do know, a core element is that the sub feels comfortable surrendering control, because they trust that the dom will not do anything to really hurt them. You have violated this trust, not only by the bad tactical decisions you made on the night of your get-together, but long before that when you pushed your wife into swinging in the first place.

 

I could discuss the evening of your get-together in more detail, but honestly I think the things that happened then are, to some extent, beside the point. The relationship bomb was armed long before that night, so it's no surprise that the evening blew up.

 

So, in answer to your question of what to do, the first, best answer is STOP SWINGING. If you value your relationship with your wife, stop. As you yourself describe, you not very good at it, rushing in, allowing things to move too fast, and failing to perform. Maybe your failure to perform was a blessing in disguise, due to some part of your mind screaming that the whole situation was wrong! You say that you are not cut out for monogamy, but it sure seems like you are not cut out for non-monogamy at this point, either. Frustration with monogamy seems a lot safer for your marriage than the frustration that has resulted from your attempt at non-monogamy.

 

Second, perhaps a reevaluation of your relationship with your wife is in order. Are you really cut out to be a dom? You have proven to your wife that your judgement cannot be trusted, so maybe taking a step back and reconsidering the terms of your relationship is in order. You correctly point out that your communication with your wife went badly, but you focused on your poor communication on the evening of your get-together. In reality, however, your communication together was faulty long before that evening, when you decided to try swinging even though you don't like watching her with another guy, and she doesn't want to be with another guy! Did you two know this going in? Sometime, over the course of the nearly year of discussion, did it come out that he was just not into playing with someone else, and you were not into her doing that either?

 

I hope you two are going to be all right. If you relax the dom/sub model, communicate openly and honestly as equals, and share the bad along with the good with each other, hopefully you two will be all right.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

I have a bunch of suggestions and thought that I could tell you but all of that is besides the point. The point is if she doesn't want to do it, you DON'T DO IT. End of story, D/s relationship or not, just walk away. A good dom will never push his sub beyond what they are willing to do. If you REALLY don't think you can handle monogamy and she doesn't want to swing, then you must decide what is more important to you: her or swinging, because eventually it will come down to that choice. It may take years or days or hours, but eventually that is the choice you must make. Look at it this way: you not being cut out for monogamy feels JUST THE SAME to her as she not being cut out for swinging. Eventually you will have to make this choice and soon always seems better (but harder) than later.

Share this post


Link to post

You are faced with a catch-22, for sure. You are not able to live in a monogamous relationship but your wife has no interest in other men. Hmmmm. Seems to me the only solution is that you strike out on your own. You could do it either with your wife's permission or without. If without, be sure to reherse your alibis for when you get caught.

Share this post


Link to post

Well I guess it is time for you to make the decision on what is the most important thing for you and live with it! Doesn't sound like you are going to be able to have everything you want.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Dragondance

You guys do realize you've posted about all of this on other threads with both me and my wife talking about our situation and you were far more understanding and sympathetic right? Is D/S some kind of sin around here?

 

Also, suggesting I'm going to run around on my wife without her knowledge is insulting to my character, and to her as well. My wife gets on here regularly, has her own profile, and knows every thought in my head. It's called intimacy.

 

I've gotta say, I'm pretty unimpressed today with SB.

Share this post


Link to post

I think part of the difference in reaction is the reveal that your wife actually doesn't want to be with other men, but you pushed her into it. It sounds like she was willing to go along because of the d/s nature of your marriage.

 

Is your wife interested in you having other relationships or partners? Some people are able to make that type of non-monogamy work.

 

Why do you feel monogamy is not for you? Having a desire to fuck other people is normal. Many people are able to channel that desire into their monogamous spouse.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
You guys do realize you've posted about all of this on other threads with both me and my wife talking about our situation and you were far more understanding and sympathetic right? Is D/S some kind of sin around here?

 

Also, suggesting I'm going to run around on my wife without her knowledge is insulting to my character, and to her as well. My wife gets on here regularly, has her own profile, and knows every thought in my head. It's called intimacy.

 

I've gotta say, I'm pretty unimpressed today with SB.

You omitted important details first time around.
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Dragondance

In my thread "New and Unsure How to Proceed" I posted every single detail of my relationship and my situation with my wife in regards to swinging. BDSM, her lack of attraction to other men, my nervousness about how or what to do, every single solitary detail. This was SWPA's response:

 

I can see nothing in your story that would make me want to discourage you in or warn you away from what you are planning. I will say that you should not expect any immediate results. You will need patience. Whenever my wife and I have encountered a couple and perceive that either the woman or the man is trying to orchestrate the whole thing, we flee the scene as soon as courtesy allows. With us, it is a four-way connection and a four-way conversation or it is no connection. I suspect that we are not alone in feeling this.

 

 

SWPA, sincerely, you are completely full of shit and should be ignored.

 

GoCo - you have been consistent and I appreciate what you are saying. I agree we shouldn't swing ever again, and we aren't going to. I will also look deeply at my role in causing harm to those around me and what I need to do to remedy that situation. Again, thanks for actually being the same person in your posts and not looking to crucify someone for doing exactly what you saw no problem with a couple of weeks ago.

 

My swinging days are over, and I can't say it's been fun. I would call this a cautionary tale for anyone considering experimenting in this "lifestyle".

Share this post


Link to post

Hi, Dragondance. I won't claim to understand the complexity of a D/s relationship (I did try to do some reading up on it before posting) and I will take a big leap of assuming that you are a good Dom who understands the rules and boundaries that suwanee has given to you as her Dom and that you will not push her into something that she is incapable or not ready to do.

 

Dealing with just your first swinging experience...not all swinging experiences will be a home-run and it is unfortunate that you had a bad first experience. We have had an experience similar to what you spoke of...both of us taking one for the team with the same couple! It was one of those, "Well, my spouse seems to be into it so I'll give it a try," sort of deals. Our take-away lesson from it was to be more clear with each other whenever one of us wasn't interested. For some couples, that might mean no-playing-on-the-first-date so that everyone has a chance to talk to their spouse if there is an attraction or not. Others come up with an under-the-table move that each can do. It can be a pull of the thumb to signify interest or a pull on the pinky to show no interest. Others excuse themselves from the other couple to give both couples time to talk with each other about mutual/non-mutual attraction.

 

Another issue, that you were able to pick up on, was the alcohol factor. Alcohol for men can be extremely detrimental. It really makes it difficult for a man to attain an erection--combine that with the pressure of the first time swinging and your non-attraction to the other woman and it really isn't surprising that an erection didn't appear. The lesson here would be to either limit your alcohol intake or abstain from it.

 

If either of you feel like your spouse isn't being treated respectfully, never hesitate to stop the action. In fact, never be afraid to stop whatever is going on if anyone is uncomfortable. Don't make a scene about it but just politely disentangle from the situation and walk away. Talk about the whys after you have left.

 

As funcoupleindayton mentioned, the difference is responses might have been the uncertainty if your wife was interested in swinging or not. I must be honest, when you say:

 

She doesn't want to swing, and she doesn't like other guys. She does it all for me....

 

It makes me really, really uncomfortable. But as I said, I have very, very limited knowledge about D/s relationships. If she was consenting to trying out swinging, then that's that. If she wasn't consenting, it makes the majority of us squirmy.

 

As for what to do...if you both are still interested in swinging, reflect on what can be learned from this situation. Use it as a way to encourage clearer communication and honesty. In the end, hopefully it will strengthen the relationship instead of damage it.

 

If one of you doesn't want to swing at all, then drop swinging.

 

Best of luck to you both.

Share this post


Link to post

I would just say you dived into the deep end of the pool and couldn't handle the current. Meh...it happens.

 

I would say to anybody reading this, go slow and make sure everybody is having fun.

Share this post


Link to post

I had a few experimental dom/sub relationships of varying intensity when I was dating. While this might be a sore topic for some people, in one case, the woman I was involved with had an intense desire to be humiliated. It was very difficult to find the bottom with her. To that end, I did consider sharing her with friends. The mention of the idea really worked for her.

 

The difference is that in that situation, she wanted to be treated that way and it was mutual. What I'm reading here is that you, in your words, just have a "selfish desire to fuck other women" and she doesn't want anything to do with other men.

 

I think you're simply taking advantage of her submissiveness and this is what is causing people to react badly. You seem to be aware it's no good on your part, as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Dragondance

I've realized after thinking abou all you all have said that I will not bring my wife in the swinging world. I don't like the men and women I see, I don't like what it represents, and I refuse to expose her to dangerous, pushy unappealing men and their unappealing wives. She has asked me to bring her through this with me, asked me not to do anything without her, but this is wrong of me.

 

I'm also not interested in being her Dom. There was a transfer of power, a disobedience of a kind, a submission that I didn't care for, during our encounter, and I no longer see any reason to continue that dynamic with her. She is an independent woman, and free to choose who she wants to submit to everyday. Right now, I'm not interested in being that person for her. She is a beautiful and wonderful woman, but apparently seems victimized, perhaps even is, so I am withdrawing my role. She surely doesn't need me to live her life in happiness, I prefer us as equals at Thomas point.

 

I think the best thing to do is to help her to stay away from the world of overly horny and frankly unattractive men, and their "powerful independent wives". It is me who has this compulsion , not her, so bringing her into this is unreasonable. No, I need to be a free agent, and move into polyamory. My wife may never agree to this, or say I'm leaving her behind, but it is the responsible thing to do. Swingers to me seem like the worst, most judgemental and classless people I've met, on the whole, and although I'm sure there are exceptions, I won't whore her out unnecessarily to undeserving men.

 

No, I'm meant to do this alone.

 

I accept that, and I'm very capable of it. I love her very deeply, but it's the only realistic answer.

 

Thank you all for saving her from a life of dealing with sad male swingers being bossed around by their overbearing wives, scrounging for leftovers. No, I am no remoray, I am a lone man, and will seek what I want on my own.

 

Thanks for all your help.

Share this post


Link to post

Dragondance your opinion on the people that are involved in the swing world seems very short sighted based on your experience with one couple and talking to a few people online! We find that the people that do live this lifestyle to be very diverse and have as many different ways of doing things as people in the vanilla world do. That is part of the excitement of doing this for us.

 

Just, because we may not be on the same page as all of them doesn't mean we don't find the way the choose to do things intriguing, interesting or respect the fact that it works for them.

 

The world would be a truly boring place to be if everyone had the same views on how things should be done for someone to be happy as we do.

 

Hope you and your wife are able to find a way to live your lives in the way that satisfies both of you whether that is together or alone.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Dragondance

Apparently, I have managed to portray my wife as a victim, being dragged unwillingly into swinging by her hair, dominating my poor submissive into doing things she clearly did not and does not want to do, then depriving her of the sheer joy of the situation she was dragged into that she does not want to do, exposing her to a dangerous situation and letting her down as her Dom, and then taking away her moment of dangerous pleasure she did not want to experience, thus wronging her again.

 

I am kind of giggling to myself at this point because there's just not a real solution to this whole thing. What my wife wants more than anything is stability, to not have to talk about our relationship and its boundaries all the time, but reading a book on modern marriage, I'm seeing that is exactly this constant attention to the rules of, and definition of, what your marriage looks like now and will continue to look like in the future is what makes all different varieties of open marriages work. Traditional marriage is falling apart because it's based on hundreds of little unrealistic assumptions about being your persons everything forever, and vice versa. Either someone cracks along the way, and gives in to the unreality of that in one of several really crappy ways that many people do (cheating or leaving), or they just check out and turn their sex drives and or emotional intimacy off altogether.

 

My "selfish attempt at trying to sleep with other women" was actually a very adult and mature thing to do, pointing out to her that I felt "traditional monogamous marriage" is unrealistic, something both of us tried in the past that did not work, something I didn't think would work for me, and doesn't for the vast majority of people. Along the way, my wife has told me she doesn't want me to do anything without her, and also that she does not desire other men at all and is a form of asexual person known as demisexual, a person who only wants to have sex with people they are deeply emotionally attached to, and that person is me for her.

 

I understand her situation, and I made the choice to, at her request, try out swinging with me to see if her first attempt at "meaningless sex" would be a positive one. I discovered that I don't particularly like watching my wife be with another man, a perfectly healthy and evolutionarily sound response I think, backed up by millions of years of survival programming in my brain stem. I spoke a lot with my wife, who told me that she also didn't like being with another guy at all, that she was most certainly not anywhere near having an orgasm, did not want to have sex with the other guy, and was glad I stopped things. I know many of you would probably say, "she's just protecting your ego, she was probably really enjoying herself" and thinking I got what I deserved for forcing my poor helpless into that situation. I think I know my wife better than you guys do, but many of you will think I'm just fooling myself, that any woman would have enjoyed herself and I selfishly stole her opportunity to have fun while selfishly stealing her oppurtunity to not have to be in that horrible situation.

 

Bottom line, I don't want to drag my wife anywhere. I'm doing my best to not talk to anyone else, see anyone else, think about anyone else, drag my wife into conversations about these things or force my shortcomings onto anyone. If at some point I just can't control myself, which I doubt, then I will address that with her then, without dragging her into anything. In the meantime I'm trying very hard to not be selfish at all.

 

Where the fault lies in that I'm not sure, I'm waiting for someone to find that for me. I appreciate you all being my "Bill Clinton's circle of contradictory advisors" as I weigh the pros and cons of every decision or choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Apparently, I have managed to portray my wife as a victim, being dragged unwillingly into swinging by her hair, dominating my poor submissive into doing things she clearly did not and does not want to do, then depriving her of the sheer joy of the situation she was dragged into that she does not want to do, exposing her to a dangerous situation and letting her down as her Dom, and then taking away her moment of dangerous pleasure she did not want to experience, thus wronging her again.

 

I hope you won't object to my pointing out that you stated, explicitly, that your wife always enjoys things you have her do that she clearly states she does not think she wants or will like.

 

There's nothing wrong with that. Like I said, I'm familiar with the dynamic, and always encourage my partner to test her boundaries now. I'm just pointing out that nobody is putting words in your mouth, here.

 

...and I, for one, certainly didn't mean to imply that you "wronged" her by stopping things. Only that you appeared to have stopped it for your own benefit, not hers. That's a perfectly valid reason to stop it, but it's a distinction that is worth noting in understanding what's going on here.

 

I know many of you would probably say, "she's just protecting your ego, she was probably really enjoying herself" and thinking I got what I deserved for forcing my poor helpless into that situation.

 

Again, your own original words were that you stopped it when she sounded like she was enjoying herself and was on her way to orgasm. If she wasn't enjoying herself after all, hey, she wasn't enjoying herself. Nobody is going to argue with you about that. Casual sex doesn't work for everybody. It's simply what you had told us happened.

 

What my wife wants more than anything is stability, to not have to talk about our relationship and its boundaries all the time, but reading a book on modern marriage, I'm seeing that is exactly this constant attention to the rules of, and definition of, what your marriage looks like now and will continue to look like in the future is what makes all different varieties of open marriages work. Traditional marriage is falling apart because it's based on hundreds of little unrealistic assumptions about being your persons everything forever, and vice versa. Either someone cracks along the way, and gives in to the unreality of that in one of several really crappy ways that many people do (cheating or leaving), or they just check out and turn their sex drives and or emotional intimacy off altogether.

 

While swinging, polyamory, and open marriage are all tolerated more than they once were, I think you're reaching a bit to suggest that traditional, monogamous marriage is impossible and unreasonable. Lots of people do it, and it would be just as dishonest to claim that everybody in a monogamous marriage is secretly miserable as it would be to claim that swinging is for everybody.

 

You'll understand how a reader who does not know the two of you might interpret this to sound like you believe your wife is the unreasonable one for failing to get on board with your particular needs. I'm confident that 4 out of 5 women would be much less patient with hearing that their husband wants other women.

 

My "selfish attempt at trying to sleep with other women" was actually a very adult and mature thing to do, pointing out to her that I felt "traditional monogamous marriage" is unrealistic, something both of us tried in the past that did not work, something I didn't think would work for me, and doesn't for the vast majority of people.

 

Putting aside the open question of how adult and mature this was or what "the vast majority of people" do, if you're not inclined to monogamy, that's OK. However, I don't see a direct answer to the question of whether or not you told your wife that you were not going to be capable of monogamy before she married you. Did she realize that you expected to sleep with other women, and weren't just kidding?

 

Your wife appears to have stated that she only wants to be with you, and that she doesn't want you to have sex with others without her. Unless her intention is to sit quietly and watch while you have sex with other women in the same room, again, your own words leave the impression that she wants monogamy and you simply assumed that she would change for you.

 

I made the choice to, at her request, try out swinging with me to see if her first attempt at "meaningless sex" would be a positive one.

 

So swinging was her idea? She's the one who brought this up?

 

I discovered that I don't particularly like watching my wife be with another man, a perfectly healthy and evolutionarily sound response I think, backed up by millions of years of survival programming in my brain stem.

 

I'm not sure it follows that it is unhealthy and evolutionarily unsound for your wife to not want you to pursue other women. So far, I haven't seen a decisive statement that your wife is or ever was supportive of your desire to sleep with other women. (If she is, more power to you both.)

 

If that's the issue here, I'm sure you'll find that most people on this forum would argue that respecting your committed relationship is your priority and that if you're not both OK with one of you playing/straying, it shouldn't happen.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

I will pipe in now to add some clarification from my end of the situation.

 

Swinging was not my idea, however he did bring it up before we got married. I have always said I was willing to try it and I never once told him no. I didn't say that it was something I could or couldn't do, because I couldn't make that determination until I tried. I am willing to give anything a try, so that's where it was. I do crave stability though, but I don't want anyone to assume what stability means to me. We talked about swinging for a year because he was very back and forth with the idea. He wanted to try it, then not, then again and not again. The back and forth was exhausting and I just wanted to get an experience out of the way to make that stop. Yes, I want stability, but it was not yet defined what "stability" looked like for us.

 

The first experience, for me, was simply an experiment to see if we could handle it. Did I love it? No, but then again it was just the first experience. I wasn't attracted to the couple and I pushed through personally, because it appeared he was having a great time. It wasn't necessarily a turn-on for me, but it was also not the end of the world (and no, I got nowhere near an orgasm...I simply had my face on so I didn't ruin it for him). I didn't have the jealousy issues I thought I might have and was surprised about that. I was under the assumption that we would just try again, taking this experience and utilizing the very hard lessons in communication that we learned and moving forward much more slowly. Is it something I "want" to do? Not really, but I can do it, and that is a big step for me. I was content with the idea of moving forward to try and seek out a great experience for both of us.

 

But his feelings have evolved into the contrary, and therein lies the problem. I am fine with trying nearly anything, or with him exploring what he needs to...as long as he takes me along on that journey. I am not cool, at this stage in our relationship, with going forward with anything separately. He has stopped all attempts to find couples we can hang out with to find a match, and yet I feel like it is "my fault" for holding him back, which I am most certainly not. I just wanted a slower pace, and a higher level of attention to our selection.

 

So where do we go from here?

Share this post


Link to post

I think that additional information helps a lot.

 

Obviously, not being attracted to someone is a great reason not to have sex with them.

 

There's clearly a lot you two need to communicate about, directly, with each other. There's a tremendous distance between "I think we should try swinging someday" and "I can't function in a monogamous relationship". Unless I'm wrong, I'm hearing that the wife was amenable to the former and still is, while the husband actually meant the latter and has ruled out swinging with his wife altogether due to the different standard he applies to her than he applies to himself.

 

Don't worry about who is at "fault" for the moment, just focus on figuring out what you both actually want your marriage to look like.

 

...and OP, you should consider that your wife is being waaaaay more patient, flexible, and accomodating than the vast majority of women probably would be. She's trying to find a meeting point between whatever her ideal is and what your ideal is. If I were in your shoes, I'd put down the book on "modern marriage". You didn't marry the author and no matter how much sense he/she makes to you, appealing to authority is unlikely to alter your wife's preferences. Worry about what you, personally, really need, and what your wife really needs. Would you have felt different if it weren't for the performance anxiety and you'd gotten the experience you wanted with the wife?

 

Until you've got a clearer view, definitely back far off and don't try to play. Volatile mix.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Just a couple of quick things: If you have been in a D/s relationship for any length of time, you need to talk to her about you wanting to withdraw as her Dom. Just deciding to stop can easily be taken the wrong way by her since she will see that you suddenly no longer want to be in charge. This can leave her confused and since you are her Dom she might not be able to ask you why (since being a sub usually means that she shouldn't ask questions).

 

It's D/s...not d/s or D/S

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Dragondance

We're not that kind of couple. We play at BDSM, but I am more the head of household in the 1950s sense than some kind of leash holding master (although a leash is a cool idea). My wife is a strong and independent woman, she just has a tremendous amount of respect for me, as I do for her. She gives me control, I don't take it, and I always ask her for consent in anything we do.

 

It turns out swinging has led us to a much higher level of communication, as I realized key aspects of my wife's personality today that change my perception of her and our relationship profoundly. My wife, in her words, has Resting Bitch Face. I never realized what that was or what it meant until tonight. I am a people person, and extrovert, a salesman, and as such my life and trade is all about reading people's faces. People say one thing with their mouths, and another with their face. If you learn to read faces, you can conquer the world; until you meet an INTJ woman.

 

My wife is a rational introvert, a thinker, and as such matches me perfectly. She is also very emotionally balanced, and easy to get along with. She is direct and always says what she means. I know this, but there is one part of her that lies about so many things; her face. My wife looks the same, whether she is sad or happy, glad or disappointed. I didn't realize that until tonight. It hadn't clicked, but it suddenly hit me; I was feeling horribly guilty all the time because my wife always looks sad and abused, as if my thoughts and actions were hurting her deeply. Except, she isn't hurt, and I wasn't making her feel bad. My wife's resting bitch face makes her look like she's upset when she's totally cool. So, when we would talk about swinging, something I had a sense of guilt about already, and twenty minutes after we talked she would walk through the house pouting and sulking, I figured I was making her miserable. I read an article about it, then brought it up with her, and realized my wife's face always looks like that, unless she's really happy, at which point she gets a tiny smirk for a second.

 

I thought I've been hurting her all this time, but she's actually been fine. We would talk, I would see her look hurt, feel horrible, and then confuse the shit out of her by giving up ground to try to make her feel better. I flip flopped a lot on swinging because I kept feeling guilty and thinking I was hurting her. What a dolt I've been. You know what though, I've had the best of intentions and I love my wife dearly, and although the idea of squashing my own needs and personality horrified me, the idea of hurting her was even worse.

 

One other facial tick she has really through me off on the night of our first swinging encounter as well. She is a nervous smiler. Once I went down the path of "I'm misreading her face", I thought about what really got to me about our first swinging session. It was that, when that other guy kissed her, she got this huge shit eating grin on her face. I saw the same look once or twice while she was sucking the other guy's tool. My mind instantly went to, "man, she must really like this guy a lot, she hates everybody most of the time but she likes blowing this guy so much she's smiling about it. She never smiles when she blows me and I know she loves that."

 

Duh. Nervous smiler. I see the smile on my wife's face that I never give her and think, "my wife is happier than I can ever make her. WTF, I'm a 9, this guy's a 4, my dick's way bigger than his, what the hell is happening here?"

 

Nervous smiling, resting bitch face - they're not that common as facial expressions go. I've missed those on my quest to be able to read people. It probably explains why, although I'm an extremely good salesman, once in a while I piss someone off really badly.

 

Swinging is all about intimacy to me; getting to know my partner better. I've been an emotional wreck for a long time, thinking I've been getting conflicting messages from my wife, "sure, we can try that. I'm not excited about it, but I'm not against it", followed but sullen looks for days afterwards. I just didn't realize she always looks sullen, and I was projecting my own fear onto her face. I have a guilt and shame complex, something I've worked on for a long time, and I was seeing what I thought I would see, not what was really there. My wife is rational, and cool, and she says what she means. I just need to ask her occasionally, are you upset or is this RBF again?

 

I know many of you have felt like I was dragging my wife on a leash to be a swinger, but that's not the deal. We're both okay, and have learned a lot about each other. We both want a lot more foreplay, to start with each other, and maybe or maybe not progress past that the next time.

 

I might not have realized all these things about my wife for years, maybe not ever, had swinging not forced us into constant deep communication and discussions. I genuinely think this is the best part of open relationships, the constant talking and redefining.

 

I take full responsibility for blowing up several times on this thread. I find blowing up in writing, at strangers on the Internet, is an excellent way to throw temper tantrums that has few consequences and doesn't really hurt anyone.

 

Thanks for listening.

Share this post


Link to post

I hope nothing I said sounded mean-spirited. It was hard to figure out where you were coming from, but once I could sort of "compare notes" between you and your wife, it started to make more sense. I think you're doing some valuable self-reflection when you say that a lot of the stress is a reflection of your own concerns more than hers. Good luck to you.

Share this post


Link to post

Writing out one's feelings can be cathartic, glad you feel better. Just remember that even online folks have feelings too.

Share this post


Link to post

Happy to hear that if nothing else this experience in the lifestyle has opened up you and your wife's communication and knowledge about each other! That is a huge plus no matter how you look at it. Good luck and I hope you can continue to stay united with each other whatever path you choose.

Share this post


Link to post

I just really hope you consider what the couple that you were with felt, at least a little. How awful to be them - with you both taking one for the team, him being a 4 and having a smaller penis, etc. Yikes. Please remember this isn't just about you and your partner, but also the people you "play" with.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest Dragondance

I talked to them several times right after the whole episode to make sure they were okay with everything. They were fine. They wanted to continue things with us, but I told them that we were going through a lot of dicussions about communication with each other and we just didn't feel we were a good fit for each other.

 

I do tend to think about other's feelings, and although I'm surely a total asshole, I at least attempt to keep my side of the street clean, so to speak. The one I felt worst for was the other guy's wife, as that whole thing probably just completely sucked for her, but there's nothing I can do to fix that, and nothing I did to cause it either, other than just not realizing I didn't have any attraction to her.

 

I'm definitely not eager to land in another situation like that; I'm not certain I'm really prepared to land in any situation period, and I most certainly do take other people's feelings into consideration, always. I'm an asshole, but I am at least aware.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...