Things are going badly. Both of us are upset and not communicating well. HELP!

Warning this is long, I am just so confused I am not sure where to start.

So we have been at this for a little over a year now. For the first few months we just watched, then just did FMF threesomes, then progressed to soft swap, and now over the last few months have had a few full swap encounters. When we first started, our communication was lacking, but I felt we had made SO much improvement over the past year and we were both happier then we had ever been. We were getting along better then ever, spending more time together, having more sex, talking more... almost felt like newlyweds and were just talking a few weeks ago about how strange it was that this was such a life changing experience and how we both felt it made us so much stronger. We were happier than ever.

About a month ago hubby decided to give me my fantasy of MFM. Hubby still struggles with a little jealousy sometimes but we had been working on it and doing well, so this was a huge deal for us. He wanted to do it out of town because he didn't want to have to see the guy afterwards not being sure how he would feel. Well we did it and both enjoyed ourselves, and even though it wasn't perfect, it was still just so hot because he did it for me.

I guess I had been feeling a little bitter because until then it seemed like the large majority of our experiences were for him. For example all the FMF. Don't get me wrong, I'm BI so I enjoyed them too, but it was definitely for HIM, not me. So I was happy that we were finally on the same page and ready to proceed with fun for both us. He loves to talk about me being with other men and says it was so hot to watch, and now almost every time we have sex he wants to talk about it. I enjoy the dirty talk, but it's like every single time. Which leads to the problem....

About 3 weeks ago we had a MFFM experience that just didn't go very well. I felt like I was just there for show while the majority of the attention was being paid to other lady. I have never been jealous before, so it was a weird feeling for me, but I was literally sitting there playing with myself while I watched the MFM. I was included a little, but it seemed to always go back to her. When it was over, I literally bust into tears on the way home. I couldn't even put into words what was wrong at the time.

The next day I was able to explain how left out I felt, and how with the exception of the one experience with our out of town MFM, I felt like this was all for him and my wants or fantasies didn't matter. He said he understand and could see why I felt the way I did. He would make sure it didn't happen again, etc etc. He said he realized that it had been a little one-sided so far but he wanted to change that. He said that he was surprisingly very turned on during the MFM and wanted to do it again, but was still a little jealous sometimes and wanted to go back out of town to do it.

So we plan a trip. For 2 weeks we plan this trip. Every day we are talking and fantasizing about it. We have hot sex with him telling me things they are going to do to me... in detail... daily. The day we leave he had to work so he sent me text all day talking about it and telling me what to pack and what outfits to bring, etc. We were excited. We start driving the 4 hr trip north and talked about it the whole way there, with a few stops needed for a quicky we were both so turned on.

So we get there and head to the club. Single men are allowed this weekend which is why we picked this place. Nobody catches his eye so after a few hours of drinking and hanging out and enjoying each other, we went back to hotel to talk about all the great sex in a MFM we were going to do the next day. I was a lil disappointed, but no big deal, we have tomorrow.

Next day comes and that night we head back to club. Hubby picked out outfit and had worked me up all day talking about it. We get there, talk to a few men, even talk to a few couples, and he brings me back to a private playroom with a peep window into next room. He then spends 2 1/2 hrs teasing me. Talking about it and making me watch MFM going on next door while he's whispering how it's going to be me. He is playing with me and it feels good, but after literally 2 1/2 hrs I'm just like come on and fuck me already. He was like what??? I was like I am tired of being teased either find someone for this MFM thing you have worked me up for all this time or fuck me, idk, I just need dick. I can tell he gets upset but by this point I am upset too. I am like well 'honey I love playing with you and hearing about it, but this is what we drove all the way here and planned all this time for... are we gonna do it or not?' Long story short we are both upset and leave. We get back to hotel and start arguing.

I feel like he just teased me. Like literally for weeks. I asked him why he wouldn't do it and he said he just wasn't feeling it. I asked him why he has us waste our weekend, our time and our money driving all the way here then, and he said he didn't know. I asked him why he continued to tease me talking about it, even going so far to make me watch others doing what he knew I wanted and teasing me for almost 3 hours in the room if he didn't have any intentions on doing it. He said he did have intentions to do it, but then he got jealous. We argued the whole way home the next day. Finally I just tell him if he doesn't want to that's fine, but don't tease me with it, and he says ok.

Low and behold, we get home and the next day he is feeling frisky. I thought I would give him a taste of teasing and show him how it felt so I go down on him for just a minute and stop, look up at him and was like 'see ya later'. He laughed, grabbed me and was like yeah being teased sucks. We then start to have sex and literally as soon as he puts it in he says 'I wish you were sucking dick while I was fucking you like this' and cums. Like I'm talking 30 seconds total here. Then he says he's tired so I'm like 'um ok, I guess you can owe me one tomorrow', he says ok he will take care of me as soon as he gets home from work.

Tomorrow came... and he said he was to tired. So it's now been 4-5 days of me being teased with no release and I'm horny and frustrated.

Today, I wrote him at work to tell him about a sensual couples massage place I found. I have always had a fantasy of being held down while having sex, and they do this there. Basically the ladies would give us rubdowns and then hold me down and rub on us while we have sex. Sound hot to me and fits my fantasy just fine. I figured it would work for him too since there is no man to even be jealous of. I called him at work all excited and tell him about it and how hot I would find it, and he's just like 'nope, no way am I doing that'. AGGGRRRRRRR.

I am so freaking pissed off right now and frustrated. I really feel like it is all about him all the time. Whenever my fantasies or desires get brought up, he will say he will do it, but then back out and I can't pressure him because that's just wrong to do. I obviously don't want him to do anything he doesn't want to do, but I get so many mixed signals idk what to do anymore. Like he says he gets so turned on thinking about MFM and loves to talk about it, but even when we follow all his criteria and I do everything just right he still don't do it. I'm feeling really bitter. Like he gets whatever he wants but when it comes to me I can't have even easy fantasies fulfilled.

I thought our communication was so much better and then this happened and how I feel like we suck at it again. To make it worse our 10 years anniversary is this weekend and we have a night out planned and I am so disgusted at him I don't even want to go. Does anyone have any advice? I realize I am being a bitch cause I didn't get my way, but dang it, it feels like I NEVER get my way and I am tired of it being one sided. He just called and was like fine, we will just stop swinging. Or course NOW he wants to stop, all his fantasies have been fulfilled and he leaves me high and dry. I feel like he is a selfish butthead right now. I feel like I am talking to a brick wall because when I try to discuss he just says he 'can't believe I am throwing a hissy fit because I didn't get my way', but to me it is so much more then that.

Someone Please Help. Is there a better way to explain how I am feeling without hurting him or pissing him off?

As a side note, above when I say hubby 'makes me' do this or watch, I am talking bedroom play. I get off on him being demanding and 'making' me be a naughty girl.

I will assume you've said it to him in many different ways. You have certainly described your situation clearly and completely here. It makes my heart ache to read it. Before I start disassembling it and tell you about all the places where you made wrong turns (which you have probably already realized), I will just say that I hope that writing the whole thing out like this has been good therapy for you. Maybe your husband should commit his feeling to paper. He does not even have to show anybody -- just fold the paper up and put it into a gap between bricks in a wall. Would be a good start toward healing for him too.

You took the time to really pour out your feelings in your post hoping someone could help, and I took the time to really read it closely. Having done so, my opinion is this isn't really about communication.

As you point out, you two have been at this for a while now and have seen the benefits to communication that swinging can bring, as well as the other benefits. You both are saying what you think and feel, and understanding what the other is saying. When he says he's not feeling it, or isn't connecting with someone, he's not lying, but the question is will he EVER feel it? I just get the sense that he isn't totally on board with seeing you pleasured by someone else. The issues with the MFM point to that, and even the foursome where you felt left out could be that too. Did he seem to be guiding that experience to basically a threesome with a watcher, or do you think the other couple were guiding it more and he just didn't do enough to even that out?

It's really a tough situation here. You obviously enjoy swinging, and I think he does too but on certain terms, and trying to find that common ground is going to be hard. You've kind of let him walk all the ground that he wanted to walk, and now you feel like it's your turn but he isn't willing to come along. In a way it is like what you both agreed to up front has changed and not really in a fair and evenly negotiated way.

Ultimatums are never the best solution, but sometimes you do have to cut to the chase and just lay things out there. You may need to tell him - I like swinging, you like swinging, but our ways of doing it aren't meshing here. It's important to me, and I want to find a way to still do it where we both can be happy, so let's figure that out, and now is that time.

We found keeping score didn't work. If something got too unbalanced we didn't do it for awhile - change parties so we change it up. Go to not playing with others and make it just us for awhile.

And you drive hours to a party and play together and it's not good? Your life must be full of very erotic sexy times to toss a great hot party where you watched MFM and played with your love while seeing that. For me, getting into the sexy hot erotic vibes is always an awesome time. If you find you can't get into it, just say, 'sorry honey, I don't feel so hot, we need to leave now". He also can say the same to you.

Expectations lead to unhappiness. I know you had your dreams and hopes up but lots of dreams and hopes don't happen like they are planned. Instead just enjoy each other. Heck, go back to that party with the idea you will not play with others and just get off with each other. Do it a few times and at some point agree to be open to others and see how it goes.

Do not let the normal life inequalities tear you two apart.

Negative reinforcement does not work in relationships. It only leads to the end of a relationship. You felt like he was teasing you so you would tease him, which will only make him want to show you how that hurt him by teasing you more...leading to a downward spiral. The same goes for keeping score, never a good idea. Relationships are NOT a game. If this isn't just fun for the both of you, then stop doing it.

I'm guessing that his problem is indeed jealousy...but the root of jealousy is actually trust. I think that he's afraid that you will find you enjoy another man more...they will be better at sex, or better with communication, or better with filling your needs, or just better. This is where the communication is important. He's TRYING to give you what you want, but fighting with his own self doubts causing him to hold off (tease). Let him know how much this means to you, that he trusts you enough to explore this side of your sexuality. Let him know that you are not looking for a replacement for him. Work on getting him to communicate more with you about his (usually perceived) weaknesses and doubts. You love HIM, you are coming home with HIM. IOHO, swinging needs love, communication and trust, and all three are equally important. If one is weak, swinging will show this weakness. Now that it has (in your case), you can both work towards strengthening it. I probably would suggest you take a step back and remove the pressure until you both can work more on this. You may even want to let him read what you wrote here. Take your time and consider how lucky you both are to have each other and are being given this opportunity to improve your relationship. We wish you luck and please let us know how things are progressing.

It sounds like he's just not ready to share you with another guy, and you're frustrated (as I would be too, in your place) so I'd put the breaks on. Maybe talk about why he's unwilling to bring another guy in? If he's teasing you because he thinks you like it, then by now, hopefully, he should know you don't. I don't think there's a problem telling him that you are unhappy with how swinging is going and that you want to stop until he can come to terms with whatever is holding him back. If he can't come to terms with it, then swinging may not be something you guys should pursue. The object of swinging is for both partners to have fun together through new sexual experiences.

I can understand people talking about not keeping score, and I wholeheartedly agree that scorekeeping is silly, but I don't think that's what you're doing. Your husband wants to have his cake and eat it too. He gets other women, but when it comes to you fulfilling your fantasies, sorry that's a no-go. You aren't okay with that (as some women are.) You want new sexual experiences, too. So, a serious discussion is needed about why he's willing to sleep with other women but doesn't want you to have the same fun with other men. Respect his feelings, if he says he's jealous, or worried or whatever. But make it clear that swinging for you is not chilling out watching him bone another woman. You want to participate, and if he's not on board with that, then it's time to find a different hobby.

By the way, I understand how you felt after the couples 'swap', I would not be happy if that happened to me.

I can understand people talking about not keeping score, and I wholeheartedly agree that scorekeeping is silly, but I don't think that's what you're doing. Your husband wants to have his cake and eat it too. He gets other women, but when it comes to you fulfilling your fantasies, sorry that's a no-go. You aren't okay with that (as some women are.) You want new sexual experiences, too. So, a serious discussion is needed about why he's willing to sleep with other women but doesn't want you to have the same fun with other men. Respect his feelings, if he says he's jealous, or worried or whatever. But make it clear that swinging for you is not chilling out watching him bone another woman. You want to participate, and if he's not on board with that, then it's time to find a different hobby.

 

By the way, I understand how you felt after the couples 'swap', I would not be happy if that happened to me.

THIS. Well said, JAPrufrock! There's scorekeeping, and then there's fairness and equality. I can only echo this piece of advice: If he's not on board with you playing, too, it's time to find another hobby.

Thanks ya'll. I wanted awhile to reply because i wanted to talk more with him once I got in better control of my feelings. We talked, argued some, talked some more...

For me, it was never about scorekeeping as much as I felt I couldn't even play.

We went to a big hotel party a few weeks ago, and I laid down the rule of "if u can't play then you can't either" and we ended up having a blast. Husband is still very picky and vetoes 95% of men I find attractive, but we finally agreed on someone. That weekend, we had my mfm threesome and a foursome with a lovely couple, and had a great time with no jealousy anywhere. We are talking more and doing much better now, and I'm glad I didn't give up.

Seems like our problems in swinging come in stages. We will have a good month followed by a bad one then good again.... Hopefully this is just us figuring out what works best for us, and learning to have that really awesome communication you have to have doing this. Thanks for all the replies!

Thanks for the follow up, so happy to hear that things are going much better. Continue to keep us up to date.

I like happy endings in progress. Very happy for you.

We love getting updates, so thanks! You're right, it does take some work, and it's not always easy. Glad to hear that your perseverance paid off!

I'm glad things are improving.

One thing I noticed is that your husband is the one choosing your partners. I don't understand that mentality. I think that is something for the two of you to discuss and work on. Why do you not feel qualified to choose who to have sex with or why does he not allow you to make the decision?

I'm glad things are improving.

 

One thing I noticed is that your husband is the one choosing your partners. I don't understand that mentality. I think that is something for the two of you to discuss and work on. Why do you not feel qualified to choose who to have sex with or why does he not allow you to make the decision?

Absolutely!

It's something I can't quite fathom. There's a few husbands we know, that I'd considered may not have been quite her type. I just don't understand that she considers them totally hot.

They all have Ok looks & great personalities, but it surprises me that she considers them hot, when I'd thought they'd not attract her attention.

I have absolutely Zero problem with that, I don't rule them out, we do play & everything is fabulous.

That's what it's all about, and suppose it adds a little mystery in what MrsZ sees in men.