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Bob250

My girlfriend is in contact with a lifestyle friend without my knowledge

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I am at my wits end and am here on the Swingers board to get some helpful advice about a problem I'm having.

 

I am in a LTR with a woman, who has been involved in the Swinging lifestyle, as was I. We were both married and divorced, She 8 years ago, and me, five years ago.

 

I first knew about the lifestyle, because a good friend and co-worker was and still is, involved in a Club in Indianapolis. Immediately after my divorce (not related to swinging) my friend invited me to a BBQ meet and greet at his home. I was very lonely at the time and went, not to participate, but just to get out and socialize. I had a great time, and went to a couple more events, but didn't actually get involved. About a year after, my friend and his wife were going to the Caymans for a retreat and invited me along. I went and fully participated. I was very popular with the ladies and had a TON of sex with some very attractive women. One single lady from another club, in particular, and I seemed to gravitate to the bedroom quite often, until by the end of the week, we could almost have been said to be exclusive.

 

After returning home, we casually dated for 5 or 6 months, then decided to move in together. During this time, neither of us were involved in the lifestyle...we were too busy starting our own relationship. WE have talked about the lifestyle a couple of times, but she never expressed any interest in becoming more involved.

 

Now to my problem. Recently I found out that she was in contact with a female friend of hers from her swinging days, but that she kept it from me. I also learned that she was at a meet and greet event three months ago during a business trip to Louisville, which she also kept from me. I have never talked bad about the lifestyle to her, so I really don't know why she is lying to me. Why, after two years of honest communication, is she now being sneaky? Can anybody give me any insight into this behavior? Help...

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Have you discussed all this (sneaky behavior but also why you both have stopped e.g.) with the person who knows the best answers to your questions? If you have build up that honest discussion, this should be something to discuss together. And I do mean discuss, try to not fall into the trap of anger and turn it into a interrogation. :)

 

^^^This.

 

The only person who can give you a real insight into your partners behavior is your partner. You need to talk to her.

 

As a suggestion, when you do avoid words like "lying" and "sneaky." Just lay out the facts: "I found out you were in touch with [female friend] and that you went to a meet and greet. I'm wondering why you didn't tell me."

 

As an aside, it occurs to me to wonder how did you find out about this?

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It's difficult to answer these questions without knowing the dynamics of your relationship since all relationships are different. Some people tell their partner every little thing that happens in their life, while others may only mention big things that happen, or something in between. Just reading your post though, just the fact that she talked to an old friend, who happened to be from her swinging days, doesn't necessarily mean anything more than she just reconnected with an old friend. Maybe something noteworthy enough to mention in some relationships, maybe not.

 

Was the meet and greet with the same old friend? Or with some other old friends? If so, it's probably the same thing, it was just a chance to reconnect. Does she usually tell you what she does each night when she is traveling? If the answer is yes, and she left this one out, then that is probably worthy of further discussion. If she doesn't tell you that she went out to a bar for a few drinks after dinner, then since this was just a meet and greet, she may not have thought it was worth mentioning.

 

The others are right, just have a conversation about it without going into interrogation mode, and try to get on the same page with each other.

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We stopped going to events, because she wanted to stop. I was (and still am) willing to continue in the LS. I enjoyed my time and have made some good friends there.

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AS to how I found out, she was narked out by another person , who isn't into secrecy. Then I began to do a little snooping on my own account. I'm sorry if I misspoke but her contacts were more numerous than that. She began to do this about 2 months ago, and it seems to be escalating. If this is cheating, and I confront, then will she, like other cheaters, simply make up other lies and take it further underground?

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The main issue, is the secrecy. One of the things that I took away from the LS, is the absolute need for openness and honesty. When we started living together, it was one of the basic rules we agreed upon. She , also , is very conversational. She tells me everything, down to the smallest thing. If she is keeping secrets from me, there has to be a reason. I think that if I keep quiet about it, I will learn more by just keeping my eyes and ears open.

 

The issue here must be emotional, and I'm wondering if my GF is involved in an emotional affair. I really don't see how it could be a sexual issue, because she was a swinger long before me, and has done pretty much everything, at least once. Which I'm OK with. Also, not to brag, but I am very fit and very well endowed. Apparently I am also a good lover, from the responses I have gotten for other club couples and women. Since We decided to concentrate on our relationship, I have had numerous people ask when we would start coming to events again, and most of these have been from women. BTW, my GF knows about all of this. I have not kept anything secret.

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Guest sandraandalex

She's being sneaky because she is and she can be.

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AS to how I found out, she was narked out by another person , who isn't into secrecy. Then I began to do a little snooping on my own account.

 

Now who's being sneaky?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not excusing her bad behavior but you said so yourself in the very next post... the main issue is secrecy. So stop being secretive. Talk to her.

 

I'm sorry if I misspoke but her contacts were more numerous than that. She began to do this about 2 months ago, and it seems to be escalating. If this is cheating, and I confront, then will she, like other cheaters, simply make up other lies and take it further underground?

 

No one here has the answer to that.

 

I'm sorry but you're not going to get the answers you need from a bunch of strangers on the internet. The only way you can resolve this is to talk to her. My wife cheated on me once. I confronted her. We talked. We resolved it. We're in a good place now. I can't promise things will end well for you, but I can promise that by talking about it, fairly, openly and honestly, you will be much better off in the long run.

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I have a real hard time believing she is this cynical and calculating. She has never been anything but great.

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my GF knows about all of this. I have not kept anything secret.

 

Also the fact that you think she is cheating on you and about your snooping? :rollseye:

 

I agree with the remark that you will not get the answers you are looking for here. You have to talk to her in my humble opinion, you would be later on anyways because this is not something you should or can sweep under the carpet. It will blow up during time, better to get the fuse out as soon as possible. It is scary as hell but needs to be done.

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I'm sure that you are right, but question whether or not I should keep quiet, until I have more knowledge? One of the Aspects of the LS i have never had to deal with is any possible emotional involvement, because I have not been involved as part of a couple. I am , however, willing to learn, if need be.

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At this point, I don't know what to think, but I'm very worried she has or is forming an emotional attachment to somebody else. Although her behavior to me, has not changed, and our sex life is still off the charts. I guess I'm a bit afraid. I don't form emotional attachments easily, and when I do, I do so, deeply. I really love her a lot, and am worried that this deceit is something she is ok with.

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You have no idea what's really going on and your mind is generating worst case scenarios. Please believe me, because I speak from personal experience, the more you do this, the harder you will make the situation to resolve.

 

Talk to her. You've already thought of the worst thing that can happen. The best thing is that you resolve this. If you don't talk to her, you can't resolve it.

 

Talk to her.

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You asked yourself "should I keep quiet, until I have more knowledge?". I would not, that only adds up to the tension and fear. You have all the knowledge you need at this point to start the conversation. A Dutch saying is: "fear is a bad counselor". Don't listen to it. Listen to her. :)

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Well, we talked about it tonight, and it seems that my worst fears were realized. My GF is emotionally involved with another woman. A woman from her original club, who is in an open marriage, which is failing. My GF apologized about 100 times for being deceitful and not telling me the truth, and wants to continue our relationship BUT with this other woman added. She said that I would always come first and if I disagree, she will stop seeing this other woman. My GF also says that this other woman (who I have met, but not had sex with) wants to play with me separate from my GF, in order for me to be comfortable with her as part of our "family". Then we can all play together, in some form of poly arrangement.

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BTW, I know very little about "poly" relationships, so any advice would be hugely helpful.

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BTW, I know very little about "poly" relationships, so any advice would be hugely helpful.

 

Poly, like swinging, is based on communication, openness and honesty. Unfortunately, you're starting out on a very rocky foundation for all of those things. Which is not to say there isn't the possibility of salvaging something here, but do so carefully. By that I mean do not let your dick override your brain and be seduced by the idea of having a sexual relationship with these two women. You need to work on the emotional side of the relationship.

 

When my wife cheated on me (and let's be honest, your GF cheated on you) the biggest part of fixing our relationship was rebuilding trust. She had to show me that I could trust her again and that took some time. I would suggest, especially if you want to be in a poly group with these women, the very first thing that needs to happen is trust needs to be built.

 

If it were me, I would decline to have sex with this other woman at first, and ask your GF to do the same. Instead, spend time with her doing non-sexual things. Have coffee. Have dinner. Talk about things. Basically, get to know this person and find out if you have some common ground beyond a mutual attraction to the same woman. If you can build a real friendship with her, then you can see about building a strong stable poly relationship which includes her. If you can't, then be honest about that and tell them it isn't going to work.

 

Edit: Also, good job for talking to your GF about your concerns and for starting to work toward addressing them. I'm sorry it turned out to be bad news, but at least now you have a place to build from.

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I want to praise you for having the courage to start the conversation. It lead to a direction you may not like, but at least you two are on the same ground now. At least a foundation you *could* build upon now.

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First (as Lionheart already suggested), is that you two need to spend some time together working on your relationship. Love, trust and communication is what it takes for ANY relationship to succeed (especially if you are and/or were swingers). You need to fix the communication part and repair the trust part. The other woman is STILL in a relationship, even if it is failing. While you two work TOGETHER on your relationship, she needs to either work on fixing hers or move on. This gives everyone some time to straighten things out.

 

After this has happened (once again as Lionheart has suggested), and you are interested in opening up your relationship to possibly include another, THEN start doing things with her (non-sexual things) to get to know her and find out if there is interest in all parties. Remember, it doesn't sound like this is a wham-bam one night stand happening here...it is the possible beginnings of a RELATIONSHIP. All three of you should 'date' instead of just jumping into bed here. Remember, you are only getting 1/2 of the story. First you need to figure out if you are interested in this kind of relationship THEN you need to know if the other woman is interested in the same thing (instead of just being told by your GF that she is...she could just be saying that to keep you happy).

 

This is all going to take time...a lot of time. We wish you the best and ask you to keep asking questions and providing updates.

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I am not really sure if I agree with the other poster's regarding the new direction this has taken. I was trying to analyze the problem you were having and really couldn't come to much of a conclusion besides talk to your GF. Now you have and it has taken an unexpected turn.

 

I think it's really great that you did take this step, very courageous. Now, maybe you get a reward, a poly lifestyle?? I don't know exactly but I am a glass half full guy. I have had a lot of success by just keeping my mind opening and accepting what comes my way. Sure there a lot of unknowns and most people get very fearful of the unknown, my experience has been more positive with the unknown, than less so. I would take this roller coaster ride and see where it leads. Who knows?? Could be a beyond fantastic situation?

 

In regards to 'cheating' behavior, yeah it was/is a reality. Couples lie to each other though, that's a fact of life. Sometimes they are small lies, sometimes big lies, most of the times it's the perspective of the people involved. So maybe you get the opportunity to turn lemons into lemonade. There are no kids involved, you have no finances involved, only thing you risk is a broken heart. Mine has bounced back from worse.

 

I would move forward with what you desire though. If you want to keep swinging I think you should explore/explain that to both women. Your GF didn't give up what she wanted for you, why give up what you want for her? I would suspect that's where a lot of your hurt comes from, not just the 'cheating' but the fact you gave something up for her and she didn't for you. Maybe love and support each other but leave the rest 'open'. It's something to think about at least. I also have zero experience with this but from other posts on this board it seems possible.

 

 

Good luck.

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A bit of an update........ we continue to talk about this and I am going to meet the OW, in a non-sexual context, tomorrow. I think that I could be persuaded to try a poly relationship, but there are flies in the pudding, the biggest of which is the integrity issue. Is this a one off thing or is it a pattern of behavior? I can tell you right now, that I won't put up with lying, and any repeats would be the end.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

marriage

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I've been following your posts and wish you all the best. Only one comment to add here - just my own experience and opinion - when a woman cheats, there's something lacking in the emotional connection at home. The fact that your GF is falling for another woman is telling, is she seeking softer, sensual, and deeper human connection? Tread lightly my friend, and work on finding out if there is a lack in your primary relationship for her.

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I've been following your posts and wish you all the best. Only one comment to add here - just my own experience and opinion - when a woman cheats, there's something lacking in the emotional connection at home. The fact that your GF is falling for another woman is telling, is she seeking softer, sensual, and deeper human connection? Tread lightly my friend, and work on finding out if there is a lack in your primary relationship for her.
I think that with both of our past experiences in the lifestyle, if she had come to me and expressed an interest in this other woman, I would not have had any objections. My main concerns are that she has explicitly stated that this is an emotional connection and not a sexual one, plus the method she used to act on her feelings (cheating), which is unacceptable.

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I guess the main question is, What is cheating in the Swinging lifestyle? It would seem to me that there is very little legitimate reason to be deceitful, if you already are having sex with other people.

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If sex was equal to love, friendship and intimacy you would be right. But there are so many other reasons than sex to be deceitful.

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Swinging (in our case) is a couples event based on love, trust and communication. Cheating is a singles event that usually includes deceit and lies. ANYTHING that I don't want to tell my partner about (and I want to be able to tell her everything) is probably something that I shouldn't be thinking about doing.

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With everyone we have known (all vanilla) where cheating happened, not a single time was it about sex. Every time, it was about something missing in the relationship that didn't have anything at all to do with sex. The sex is just how the problem comes to the surface and reveals itself.

 

Cheating for swingers is the same as cheating for anyone else. Lies and deceit. Two coworkers spend their lunch hour sneaking off to get frisky with each other like they do every week or two. That night, one of them goes with his wife to a swing club and plays with three other women. He cheated once that day and that once is going to do damage to the relationship where the other three aren't going to do any damage at all, even though it was three versus one....because there were no lies or deception with those three.

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Another quick update. I have decided to end my relationship with my ex-GF.

I realize, as many of you have pointed out, that this isn't a swinging issue, it is a cheating one. I went into my relationship with this woman confident that with our joint background in the lifestyle that we would always have an open and honest relationship. My ex-GF apparently did not read the handbook.

I would like to thank all who have posted with advice and positive thoughts, and am in your debt.

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I'm sorry it didn't turn out the way you would have wanted, but I'm glad you were able to take the steps you needed to. Best of luck in the future.

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I want to second Lionheart's thoughts as well. I'm sorry it ended this way but it sounds like you made the best decision for you.

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Thanks for the positive vibes. It's really hard sledding, ending a relationship , when one of the parties do not want it to end. She has blown up my phone for the past week, with tons of promises and tons of excuses, but when I ask her about the deception, and why she thought that was acceptable behavior, she can't give me a clear, unequivocal answer, just platitudes and cliché's. She still doesn't get that it isn't about her and another woman, and I don't think she ever will. Thanks again.

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Sorry to hear this but it is the right thing to do. Let us know if there is anything we can do to help...

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So......in the last week or so, my GF has been blowing up my phone with messages and texts of love and profuse apologies and pledges of future honesty. She told me and told the other woman that I will always be first in her heart and if it comes to a choice , there would never be any question that she will always choose me. To prove this she has ended contact with the other woman and asks for the opportunity to prove that this was a momentary lapse of judgement and was not meant to be hurtful or deceitful, that she was not trying to keep anything from me, but simply trying to figure out her own feelings , before revealing them. IDK, I may not sound it, but I really love this woman, and she has always been square with me in the past. Is this too deceitful for me to give her a second chance? I'm more unsure than even before.

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As Lionheart has already said, this is a question that only you can answer. Trust, however, is very difficult to repair and even if you two are able to get back on stable ground I would not recommend thinking about swinging again for a LONG time. Let us know how things go.

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As Lionheart has already said, this is a question that only you can answer. Trust, however, is very difficult to repair and even if you two are able to get back on stable ground I would not recommend thinking about swinging again for a LONG time. Let us know how things go.

 

OTOH, speaking for personal experience and a glass-is-half-full perspective, rebuilt trust can ultimately make your relationship stronger. It takes time, hard work and dedication on both sides but you can both use this as a chance to improve the honestly and communication in your relationship.

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For those who have "successfully" restored trust - how exactly do you do that?

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For those who have "successfully" restored trust - how exactly do you do that?

 

Honesty, communication, time, patience, caring, hard work ... and the one day, years later, I looked at my wife and said without even thinking: "Well, I trust you." She cried.

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If you believe she is sincere in her regret about being deceitful then give her another chance. Some people need a wake up call before they keep all their cards on the table.

As far as being poly, that's a tough nut to crack. It means everyone is emotionally involved. If that sounds appealing, go for it

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I think she is NOW, well aware that I can and will pull the plug on this relationship if there is any further secrecy or attempts to deceive. I think that she needed to know this...and so did I, for my own self respect. In our kind of relationship perhaps it was originally a little too free and easy, so that neither of us ever sat down and communicated our individual , personal boundaries. Even through all of this turmoil, our communication has improved, so that is a definite positive.

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Yeah, swinging is off the table for the foreseeable future, which is somewhat of a disappointment, as I liked my forays into the lifestyle, a lot. Being sought after and the center of attention was a great ego boost for me. Especially after my rather acrimonious divorce.

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I am pretty sure that she is HUGELY regretful, and that (at least) originally she wasn't being intentionally deceptive. She was unsure of her feelings, but as time went on, she became secretive in order to cover up her contacts with the other woman. Things for her got out of hand, and because she has a "people pleaser" type of personality, it seemed, (to her) better to say nothing than to create bad feeling. This , by no means, excuses her actions, but is more in the way of an explanation of her mindset.

Anywho, I think I will give it another go. She has offered all of her personal passwords, etc, but I don't need to know these things. I don't want to be her monitor, I want her to WANT to monitor herself.

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Yeah, swinging is off the table for the foreseeable future, which is somewhat of a disappointment, as I liked my forays into the lifestyle, a lot. Being sought after and the center of attention was a great ego boost for me. Especially after my rather acrimonious divorce.

 

My experience was that after we had rebuilt trust to the necessary point, we returned to swinging and it was so much better than it had been before. The improved trust, honesty and communication which came out of rebuilding our relationship directly benefited our future swinging. I can't say absolutely that will happen for you, but I hope it does.

 

Give the rebuilding the time it needs and, if all goes well, everything will be better for it.

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Thanks, LH, this is what I hope will happen, too. When I told her that I would give her another shot, she went out and bought a T-shirt that said, "no more secrets" on the front. I like that.

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