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Would you attend parties at a club that was openly racist?

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We have a local club where blacks are very vocally NOT allowed. The owner is a true old school bigot. We went once and he went on and on about how there would never be any of "those" in his club. For us, that was enough - we never went back.

 

However, the place draws a crowd, and we often get invited to go there. We always decline, and if pressed, we do politely explain why. Most people will say, "oh yeah, he is like that, but it is his place and it is his right to allow whoever he wants in".

 

I don't get that. To me, if you patronize a place that is racist, you are supporting the concept. I don't get mad at people about it, but the thing is that most people look at us as if we are nuts because we wont go there.

 

Not sure what the deal is here. We've been in the LS for a while now and thought it was all about open mindedness? Are we missing something?

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To me, if you patronize a place that is racist, you are supporting the concept.

 

You answered your own question. Most people that are racist don't want to be upfront and out about it but they are more than willing to support the cause like you have stated.

 

Just how the world is. You are doing right in my eyes by not going there but that is only up to you. You have to do what is right for you.

 

You have to allow others to do what works for them even if you don't agree with it. If they came to our place and started voicing those views they would be asked to stop it or leave since that is not the views of the owners.

 

As you stated, it is his place and he does have the right and so do his guests. You don't have to take part in it and I personally would not support it but I will stand by his right to be the way he is.

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There wouldnt be a chance in hell that you would catch me in a club run like that. Sure, people are free to run thier buisness as they choose (to a degree, I suspect he may actually be breaking some laws here), but people are also free to watch and cheer as that same buisness goes under.

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It's like you said, it's their club, and they can decide who is and is not welcome. Their particular practices would keep me far away from their club, but that's my prerogative.

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My wife and I would not come near the club.

 

Let's see...

Same organs: Check

Same tooth color: Check

Same origin of species: Check

Same blood color: Check

What did you say about not of the same race?

 

 

Recently, I saw a profile where a couple said they don't play with non-whites, and won't play with people who do.

 

NEXT

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What is very noticeable on some swingers websites,is that some members mostly in the South include in their profile a preference to "stay within their own race". Guess some things never change!

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No, we wouldn't attend. #1 would be by attending we would feel like we were indirectly supporting something we are opposed to, and #2 we're out to have fun, so who wants to go somewhere and hear crap like that all night. Serious buzz killer there.

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With so many clubs and party houses being raided at unpredictable times, the risk of being exposed in the local news media is enhanced when an establishment attracts undesirable attention. That would be a real buzz kill.

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Wow, of all the things that I read on this site that leaves us shaking our heads, this is one of the tops. Unbelievable. Clearly our answer is no way. For us, we'd hate to get involved with a couple that held those beliefs. Totally unsexy if you ask us.

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Chicup isn't politically correct, sure I'd go.

 

Let me splain.

 

If the crowd was there because it was a great club and such, the fact the owner decided he didn't want blacks would be a minor concern. I'm going to meet couples not talk politics or bias.

 

If the crowd was LIKE the owner and it was a skinhead group, KKK like, or whatever, and they were there BECAUSE they didn't let in blacks then I'd not go because those are not the people we hang out with so I know we won't have fun.

 

Swing clubs are uncommon and while it is not fair, sometimes I'd rather have fun than fight ever social injustice while staying home feeling offended.

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Some people put the darndest things in their profile, and it's all OK. If that's what they're looking for and wanting to play with, so be it.

 

It's the same with this club owner. It's his club and he can choose the type of patrons he wishes. I too feel like I'd be supporting his racism if I went, so we'd just rather find a club that appealed to and patronized everyone.

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I'm politically incorrect too.

 

I wouldn't like the policy, and if we had another option on a night we really wanted to get out, we would choose the other option, because we don't want to support rascism. We play with dark-skinned people when we are attracted to them. It would bother me that the club didn't let them in, because discrimination is wrong, and because... well... some of our best friends are black. For real, they are.

 

But... we have played with one couple who had something in their profile about not wanting blacks. Doubtless some of our other playmates have felt that way too, and just not said so, so we didn't know it.

 

And... in life in general, sometimes we make the choice to support things we know are wrong, because we are getting some benefit we don't want to give up. Going to a club like that wouldn't make me happy, but I might do it if there were some strong incentive.

 

Like I said, sometimes we make those choices. Most of us make choices like this but don't acknowledge them or don't think about them. I buy my meat at the supermarket even though I know the animals are horribly mis-treated. I patronize places that probably are unfair to their workers. I could go on, but I think everyone who watches the news could come up with their own examples. These choices are just generally not thought of as badly as the choice posted by the OP, even though they harm other people too.

 

Racism is bad. But I realize I can't fight every fight, every time, so sometimes I compromise. In my opinion, we all do this in some areas of our lives. A few of us admit it.

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The Fuse said:
I'm politically incorrect too.

Like I said, sometimes we make those choices. Most of us make choices like this but don't acknowledge them or don't think about them. I buy my meat at the supermarket even though I know the animals are horribly mistreated. I patronize places that probably are unfair to their workers. I could go on, but I think everyone who watches the news could come up with their own examples. These choices are just generally not thought of as badly as the choice posted by the OP, even though they harm other people too.

 

I think part of what sets this apart is the apparent overtness of the bias involved. True most of us patronize places or businesses that we suspect may do things we don’t like, but when the proprietor comes out and makes it a selling point it crosses the boundary from speculative to cold hard reality.

 

Sure my Nike’s may have been made in a third world sweatshop, but I don't really know. However if a company advertised as "Passing slave labor prices onto our customers", I don't think I would wear their shoes.

 

It's not just self imposed ignorance either. When a company hides their shady practices, you can support that company without sending the message that you are totally fine with it. You are shielded from that by the veil of public uncertainty. When a company comes right out and advertises their reprehensible views though, then you are directly supporting those views by supporting the company. The description of this club made it sound as though the exclusion of non-whites was a prominent point of the clubs image, and as such (for me) it crosses the line.

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The Fuse said:
Like I said, sometimes we make those choices. Most of us make choices like this but don't acknowledge them or don't think about them. I buy my meat at the supermarket even though I know the animals are horribly mistreated. I patronize places that probably are unfair to their workers. I could go on, but I think everyone who watches the news could come up with their own examples. These choices are just generally not thought of as badly as the choice posted by the OP, even though they harm other people too.

 

Racism is bad. But I realize I can't fight every fight, every time, so sometimes I compromise. In my opinion, we all do this in some areas of our lives. A few of us admit it.

 

You make an excellent point there. I'm guilty of some of those things too, but I guess I'm more willing to give up an evening at a club than a good steak.

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I think part of what sets this apart is the apparent overtness of the bias involved. True most of us patronize places or businesses that we suspect may do things we don’t like, but when the proprietor comes out and makes it a selling point it crosses the boundary from speculative to cold hard reality.

 

Sure my Nike’s may have been made in a third world sweatshop, but I don't really know. However if a company advertised as "Passing slave labor prices onto our customers", I don't think I would wear their shoes.

 

It's not just self imposed ignorance either. When a company hides their shady practices, you can support that company without sending the message that you are totally fine with it. You are shielded from that by the veil of public uncertainty. When a company comes right out and advertises their reprehensible views though, then you are directly supporting those views by supporting the company. The description of this club made it sound as though the exclusion of non-whites was a prominent point of the clubs image, and as such (for me) it crosses the line.

 

There are some really good points here. When the bias is really overt it is very distasteful.

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My automatic, instantaneous reaction: No way. My reaction after reading and thinking: No way. It's not being politically correct, it's my gut instinct.

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I think part of what sets this apart is the apparent overtness of the bias involved. True most of us patronize places or businesses that we suspect may do things we don’t like, but when the proprietor comes out and makes it a selling point it crosses the boundary from speculative to cold hard reality.

 

Sure my Nike’s may have been made in a third world sweatshop, but I don't really know. However if a company advertised as "Passing slave labor prices onto our customers", I don't think I would wear their shoes.

 

It's not just self imposed ignorance either. When a company hides their shady practices, you can support that company without sending the message that you are totally fine with it. You are shielded from that by the veil of public uncertainty. When a company comes right out and advertises their reprehensible views though, then you are directly supporting those views by supporting the company. The description of this club made it sound as though the exclusion of non-whites was a prominent point of the clubs image, and as such (for me) it crosses the line.

 

I think I must agree with all of the above. Bias and racism are always going to be out there, but when it is really out in the open its time to move on and go elswhere.

 

What is very noticeable on some swingers websites,is that some members mostly in the South include in their profile a preference to "stay within their own race".Guess some things never change!

 

The preference thing does not bother me all that much, as we are attracted to who we are attracted to. It would be much better to just leave it off the profile and just say no thanks to any whos race they dont find attractive. Now I never want people to stop putting we dont play with "insert race or other qualification here" and wont play with those who do. Seeing that makes it easy to just pass them by and remember to never want to meet them. Thats racism not just preference.

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While I find the strong stance on racism nice, I think we haven't really examined this question enough.

 

If your town only had one club and it was said club, would you attend? Its either go there or stay home? Is your indignation enough to give up swinging all together if that was your only outlet?

 

In a similar vein a local club of ours started to advertise HEAVILY in 'urban' publications. We started feeling like the scene at the bar in Animal House. It became a defacto urban black swing club. They didn't want us and we didn't want them. We're we banned? No, in fact the owners were white, but did we feel welcome? Not at all. But hey if that's what that group wants, I'm not going to claim foul when it comes to swinging. There are several swing groups which are divided on various lines from style, to racial, to weight. Should I bet upset that we don't qualify for a BBC or BBW group? Should I tell those who are interested they shouldn't go have a good time?

 

We all discriminate in swinging to some degree and I don't see doing it based on race as any more evil than all of our other unchangeable discriminations.

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Chicup,

 

I understand what your saying and agree with you totally. We all make choices that many would call discriminating in some way.

 

You personally did not feel welcome once the club you went to promoted to the urban crowd but they did not ban you, you still had a choice. There is a difference.

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Chicup said:
Why do I have a feeling the OP is a regular poster who doesn't want their name associated with this topic

That is my guess. Also my guess is that the OP lives in my part of the USA as an establishment fitting this description is exactly 39.1 miles (by road) from where I live.

 

Swinging is not about open-mindedness. It's about fun, friendship and sex. I guess JoAnn and I tend to not ask prospective swap partners or prospective friends to which political party they belong, what kind of feeling they have about school taxes, what synagogue they are members of, what kind of ethnic heritage they carry with them. We might ask them if they like the Toronto Maple Leaves or the Pittsburgh Penguins. We expect that they will carry the same kinds of prejudice and bias that the wider population of non-swingers have. I certainly have my prejudices. When I see a shabbily dressed guy in a public place puking his guts out the word "bum" comes to my mind much more easily than the more complicated concept of "poor unfortunate man". During a jury selection I was asked by the defense attorney that if I saw a black man on a street corner at 3 am yakking on a cell phone, would I assume he was making a drug deal. I answered yes. What they forgot to ask me was that if I saw a white man on a street corner at 3 am yakking on a cell phone would I assume he was making a drug deal. The answer would also have been yes.

 

If it does happen the be the same place, the only person who talks about exclusion of the races is the person who collects money at the door. Never have I heard any of the other party attendees talking about it. No, we are not going there any more. Not only because the old man was becoming a little tiresome with his outspoken opinions but owing the the fact that we were not meeting a lot of interesting people there.

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Chicup said:
If your town only had one club and it was said club, would you attend? Its either go there or stay home? Is your indignation enough to give up swinging all together if that was your only outlet?

 

If the club was very openly racist, no we would not go there. With Bunny having a management position it could be bad. I think that if caught or outed the racial aspect would cause more problems than the swinging. No we aren't racist, but going there could cause guilt by association and any activity with any of the black employees where she works would then be suspect.

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If the club was very openly racist, no we would not go there. With Bunny having a management position it could be bad. I think that if caught or outed the racial aspect would cause more problems than the swinging. No we arent racist, but going there could cause guilt by association and any activity with any of the black employees where she works would then be suspect.

 

Ok now THERE is an aspect of it I didn't think of. Interesting point.

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We ran into this once at a hotel party, my wife was flirting with a black man, and a white male came up to me and said "I can't believe you allow that" obviously referring to the race issue......

 

At least several other occasion's I have heard comments like "so this lady or that lady "likes blacks"...

 

Generally speaking we prefer to stay within our own race, but that is not the only factor used when deciding who to play with. I do notice in many, many profiles online stating preferences such as they want a White or Black partner...... This is really no different, if you go to this "club" your seeking a specific partner.....

 

If you go to a S&M club....expect S&M, if you go to a fetish club.....expect fetish..... Everyone is so worried about "political correctness" they have lost sight... I imagine this club restricts Single Males (As most do)...they must be "prejudiced" against Single Males..... I bet if someone didn't meet the dress code they wouldn't be allowed it... they must be "prejudiced against fashion... I bet if some white homeless guy came to the door they wouldn't be allowed in...they must be "prejudiced" against the homeless... one can go on and on.

 

Racism is wrong and if this club was open to the public that's just not right, but it's a private party for those who are invited in the door!

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SW_PA_Couple said:
Also my guess is that the OP lives in my part of the USA as an establishment fitting this description is exactly 39.1 miles (by road) from where I live.

 

My guess here as well. Sounds an awful lot like the Mountain Retreat in PA. That dude asks you if you are black right up front when you call to make a reservation. If you are, the call is over. We've been there on a few occasions. Great location and building. Poorly executed club though on many other levels. I think that that the owner's biases and the fact that he himself is not in the LS don't help the matter.

 

As for why we don't go any more? More or less the same as the OP. Plus, I can't see giving this guy any money when there are two other better run clubs in the same general area?

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I show up at clubs with two women as I am in a polymory relationship. One is a 6 ft tall black woman who is almost a clone of First Lady Michelle Obama. The other is an Equadoran woman who speaks little English! The way I see it, their loss!

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Would we, attend parties at a club that was openly racist?

 

I would want to go in, occasionally. However, Mrsfun says No, she's not coming in.

 

Don't expect to see us.

 

I support my wife's decisions on many things. This would be one of them, I can.

 

That's how we roll...

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Personally that is his right.

 

My wife and I spoke about other races and she is NOT in to black men, it just doesn't turn her on, so knowing that, maybe we would go there.

 

We haven't been to a club yet, maybe next month, so maybe that will change.

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We ran into this once at a hotel party, my wife was flirting with a black man, and a white male came up to me and said "I can't belive you allow that" obviously refering to the race issue......

 

We ran into something similar one time at a M&G at a club. We were seated at a table with two other couples, one both white (as we are) and a black/hispanic couple. Even though it was pretty obvious that we were hitting it off pretty well with the other couple, when I was chatting with the white couple about other clubs in the area, one of them made a statement along the lines of "we don't like to go there, too much mixing of the races." Then they sort of caught themselves and said "nothing wrong with that, just not for us."

 

It wasn't said in an ugly or confrontational tone, and with the music and the way we were seated, no one else would have heard it but me. I just shrugged it off thinking it was an odd statement to be making given the situation. It was either a case of "open mouth, insert foot" which I think is most likely, or else was a perfect example of expressing disapproval while smiling at you which people in this area have made an art form.

 

We did end up going to a playroom with the black/hispanic couple, and when we came back everything was still cool and all three couples went right back to socializing. Later on, after the mixed couple had left, the Mrs. was hitting it off with a single black male and was spending a lot of time on the dance floor with him, and the other wife was teasing her in a good way about having so much fun in one night.

 

So to me, that's kind of the difference - they had their preferences for clubs and playmates, and while I may not agree with it at all and it probably would have better off left unsaid, it's their prerogative to have their preferences. But, if they had said, "people like that shouldn't be allowed in here" then I would have had a serious problem, probably would have said something in reply, and we would have distanced ourselves from them the rest of the night.

 

Sometimes it's hard to tell what some is really saying, whether they are just stating THEIR preference or else trying to tell you either directly or indirectly it should be YOUR preference too, but when it's a clear case like the OP describes, then we want no part of it.

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No, we wouldn't attend. #1 would be by attending we would feel like we were indirectly supporting something we are opposed to, and #2 we're out to have fun, so who wants to go somewhere and hear crap like that all night. Serious buzz killer there.

:ditto:

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one of them made a statement along the lines of "we don't like to go there, too much mixing of the races." Then they sort of caught themselves and said "nothing wrong with that, just not for us."

 

So to me, that's kind of the difference - they had their preferences for clubs and playmates, and while I may not agree with it at all and it probably would have better off left unsaid, it's their prerogative to have their preferences. But, if they had said, "people like that shouldn't be allowed in here" then I would have had a serious problem, probably would have said something in reply, and we would have distanced ourselves from them the rest of the night.

 

Sometimes it's hard to tell what some is really saying, whether they are just stating THEIR preference or else trying to tell you either directly or indirectly it should be YOUR preference too, but when it's a clear case like the OP describes, then we want no part of it.

I think there is a very important distinction between something a person doesn't find attractive, which is what people would call a "preference" -- they don't like blonde hair, or tall women, or black skin, for instance -- and the state of shunning someone because they belong to a "race" -- a whole group of people who share visible genetic characteristics. People who say "mixing of the races" are in the latter category. The former is a harmless preference. The latter is a harmful bias that hurts a whole group of people, and the rest of us by proxy. Whether or not they are trying to influence the actions of others, their racism is still repugnant.

 

cplnuswing: I don't mean to be picking on you. Your post just made me think, because of the words you quoted from what your club acquaintances said. I don't mean to offend.

 

Some people have an honest preference, in that they may find black skin or hair just unattractive, in the same way they might find tall women unattractive. Just not what they are attracted to. But here's the important difference: They would never shun tall women as a group, or say people who were with them were "mixing". There would never be a question as to whether they would let their sons date a tall woman. It would just be "my son's attracted to tall women, but I'm not", or "different strokes for different folks".

 

I think there are a lot of people who are racist who say "just not what I'm attracted to". Surely there are a lot of people with an honest, purely attraction-based preference who say the same thing, harmlessly. The ones who are not being honest are expressing themselves in a more socially acceptable manner. We don't know who is masking their racism by calling it a "preference", until they expose themselves like the club owner in the original post, or people who say "race mixing".

 

But again, I think the distinction is important. And I think a lot of people lose sight of it or are deflected by the "just not my preference" line.

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Race is surely a hot button issue, isn't it? When we started swinging 20 years ago, the club we went to most often (run by "Charley") did not allow blacks. We couldn't care less. One night we went to another club in the same town, one interesting black man we were talking to said he thought he had seen us at "Charley's." We laughed and said that we sincerely doubted that. He laughed too, and it was clear he was joking with us.

 

We have had several good times with black folks. We lived for three years in a country that was 98 % black and loved every minute of it. Racism is just not part of our makeup. However, boycotting a private club that discriminates is also not part of our nature. Anyboy who wants to do that is free to do so, or so we think. However, we also think it is silly PC stuff!!!

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Realy? Damn, now Im gonna have to find a cracker barrell around here and then fail to shop there!

 

I think I might try to find a male friend willing to pull a stunt against them. If I do, I'll report back here :)

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cplnuswing: I don't mean to be picking on you. Your post just made me think, because of the words you quoted from what your club acquaintances said. I don't mean to offend.

 

None taken whatsoever. I think we are saying the same thing, you're just doing a much better job of it than I am :)

 

 

I think there are a lot of people who are racist who say "just not what I'm attracted to". Surely there are a lot of people with an honest, purely attraction-based preference who say the same thing, harmlessly. The ones who are not being honest are expressing themselves in a more socially acceptable manner. We don't know who is masking their racism by calling it a "preference", until they expose themselves like the club owner in the original post, or people who say "race mixing".

 

Very true. Like the club owner, when someone has removed the mask and there's no doubt where they are coming from, then it's easy for me to make a decision to be no part of it. Other times, like seeing a statement in a profile that makes you wonder whether it's a truly an attraction-based preference, or something more that would mean they are probably not people you want to spend time with, it's not so clear as to what path one should take. Assume guilt, or assume innocence?

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That's any easy answer. No. It's not about political correctness. We deeply and firmly believe that overt racism, regardless of who is doing it, is abhorrent and we are not going to patronize a business that supports it.

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Just a random thought on this:

 

What if the owner of the place said "no Jews" or "no Catholics" or "no whatever??" Kind of curious as to where the line is? If its OK to say no blacks because its his place, what ISN'T it OK to say?

 

Not trying to be a pain, but I guess I really don't see how this is OK at all. The OP says that it is a club, so I assume that it is a private club, and not at the owners home? If it is a party that is advertised to the public, I guess I just don't see how its OK to exclude anyone on the basis of race or religion or anything else other than illegal activities? And for what its worth, I am probably the most non politically correct person you will ever meet? :)

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wpafuncpl said:
Not trying to be a pain, but I guess I really don't see how this is OK at all. The OP says that it is a club, so I assume that it is a private club, and not at the owners home? If it is a party that is advertised to the public, I guess I just don't see how its OK to exclude anyone on the basis of race or religion or anything else other than illegal activities? And for what its worth, I am probably the most non politically correct person you will ever meet?

More than a random thought; an astute observation.

 

The particular place about which I speculated, no way to know of course, advertises "parties" rather than as a club. Could be a way of side-stepping, I suppose.

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We wouldn't go. Mostly because we are hispanic and I'm guessing we also wouldn't be welcomed.

 

However I do believe that in a "truly" free nation (which we really aren't) such a person should have every right to create such a club. Free market shall rein and if such a club doesn't make it then it doesn't make it, vote with your wallet.

 

Remember kids are you truly tolerant if your intolerant about intolerance? -V

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But again, I think the distinction is important. And I think a lot of people lose sight of it or are deflected by the "just not my preference" line.

 

But does it really matter under the circumstances of swinging?

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I think there are a lot of people who are racist who say "just not what I'm attracted to". Surely there are a lot of people with an honest, purely attraction-based preference who say the same thing, harmlessly. The ones who are not being honest are expressing themselves in a more socially acceptable manner. We don't know who is masking their racism by calling it a "preference", until they expose themselves like the club owner in the original post, or people who say "race mixing".

 

But again, I think the distinction is important. And I think a lot of people lose sight of it or are deflected by the "just not my preference" line.

 

Very hard to be cut and dry with things like this. The issue has many layers. Sometimes I think flipping it around is easier. If a black couple said "we dont play with white couples b/c we just dont feel comfortable with them", and the meaning was that their feeling was that there was just too much of a cultural gap to bridge, is that racist? To me, I wouldnt say it is. If a white couple said the same, there would be a strong temptation to call it racist. I think this is an *extremely* tough issue to draw judgment on (someones choice of who to have sex with) I mean does it get any more personal?

 

If someone only draws a line when it comes to who they choose to share their bed with, I have a really hard time calling them racist.

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But does it really matter under the circumstances of swinging?

That's a personal decision, of course. But in general, many things that matter in "real" life still matter to me in swinging. I've never been one to buy the rationale that bad behavior doesn't matter just because it's in the context of swinging. It's not some alternate universe. We are all still real people.

 

Again, I won't say I draw a bright line and everything the least bit questionable makes a person off limits to me. But certain things are really a turn-off in my world. Excluding people solely on the basis of race is one of them. I'll certainly decide against pursuing someone if I think there is too wide of a cultural divide. But I don't make that decision based solely on skin color.

 

Another earlier post made the point that it is often hard to tell the difference between "preference" and racism. Yes, it can be hard to tell. The only thing we can do is make our own judgment call. I give people the benefit of the doubt, or at least I try to.

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Another earlier post made the point that it is often hard to tell the difference between "preference" and racism. Yes, it can be hard to tell. The only thing we can do is make our own judgment call. I give people the benefit of the doubt, or at least I try to.

 

This is the core of it really. It is definitely all about finding a personal comfort zone. I believe strongly in people trusting their instincts and erring on the side of caution. We are a mixed couple (note somewhat less than creative name :D), so this issue hits home for us in a lot of ways.

 

Mrs. Mix is Asian, so it's a bit different. Of course there are true racists who just run from you like you were aliens, so for us its not hard to weed out those ;) And the more unconscious racists or the folks whose preference is just not an Asian chick and/or a white guy would run from us as well, so again, not a big decision to make there :D

 

But there is also a kind of racism in the sense that race is actually *driving* the preference (Asian chick fantasy, black guy fantasy, etc). This is another very tricky area, but it's had its own threads and I don't want to thread jack :blush:

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That's a personal decision, of course. But in general, many things that matter in "real" life still matter to me in swinging. I've never been one to buy the rationale that bad behavior doesn't matter just because it's in the context of swinging. It's not some alternate universe. We are all still real people.

 

Again, I won't say I draw a bright line and everything the least bit questionable makes a person off limits to me. But certain things are really a turn-off in my world. Excluding people solely on the basis of race is one of them. I'll certainly decide against pursuing someone if I think there is too wide of a cultural divide. But I don't make that decision based solely on skin color.

 

Another earlier post made the point that it is often hard to tell the difference between "preference" and racism. Yes, it can be hard to tell. The only thing we can do is make our own judgment call. I give people the benefit of the doubt, or at least I try to.

 

Well despite talking about being attracted to men of her favorites sports team who are not all white, Mrs. Chicup is a white only swinger.

 

She finds no attraction to other races.

 

Now if she mentions that is she a racist? You can't tell.

 

Now I know being I know how she acts and who her friends are but unless I told you you would have to be guessing.

 

So would you or would you not swing with such a person?

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That would all depend on presentation. There's a world of perceptual difference between "I've never been attracted to a black man" and "I won't play with a black man". The first seems to allow for the possibility and indicates that the person works on a case by case basis, while the other is categorical denial.

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Well despite talking about being attracted to men of her favorites sports team who are not all white, Mrs. Chicup is a white only swinger.

 

She finds no attraction to other races.

 

Now if she mentions that is she a racist? You can't tell.

 

Now I know being I know how she acts and who her friends are but unless I told you you would have to be guessing.

 

So would you or would you not swing with such a person?

 

I would swing if attracted, unless they made it clear enough that I could not ignore, that they held views that made me dislike them. Like I said I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Not only that, but in spite of what I wrote earlier, I tend to be okay with more negative qualities in a playmate that I wouldn't put up with in a friend. Just up to a point which is really impossible to define clearly. If your wife or anyone else mentions "I'm a racist" as you wrote above, I would have to ask what they meant by that. (Really I would rather keep conversation to lighter subjects if I was considering sex with someone, but if they brought it up...)

 

I probably would not play with your wife though... I like men :).

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Rackir said:
That would all depend on presentation. There's a world of perceptual difference between "I've never been attracted to a black man" and "I won't play with a black man". The first seems to allow for the possibility and indicates that the person works on a case by case basis, while the other is categorical denial.

 

But both are the same thing. I see what you mean but not everyone plays word games.

 

I personally can say 'I won't play with a black man' because I'm straight.

 

I can also say "I've never been attracted to a black man" and it is true.

 

If you are not racism sensitive, as in you are not looking for racism or not trying to show you are not racist, saying you won't play with a black man will not be racist, its just being parsimonious. Mentioning its due to a physical characteristic could seem a bit pleading. Like 'I won't play with a black man but its not because I'm racist but because I am not attracted to dark skin, but its not because I'm racist, just so you know, some of my best friends are black men, or they would be if I knew any.'

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I would swing if attracted, unless they made it clear enough that I could not ignore, that they held views that made me dislike them. Like I said I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Not only that, but in spite of what I wrote earlier, I tend to be okay with more negative qualities in a playmate that I wouldn't put up with in a friend. Just up to a point which is really impossible to define clearly. If your wife or anyone else mentions "I'm a racist" as you wrote above, I would have to ask what they meant by that. (Really I would rather keep conversation to lighter subjects if I was considering sex with someone, but if they brought it up...)

 

Which was what I meant by would it matter in swinging of course. For all I know some of our play partners were people with horrible views, but we weren't together to talk politics, religion, or the like. Now obviously as you said if someone goes out of their way to let you know just how horrible their views are, thats a different matter.

 

I probably would not play with your wife though... I like men :).

 

Yea I knew that but figured it was a better example than myself who has more latitude than the Mrs. in that respect :lol:

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(Really I would rather keep conversation to lighter subjects if I was considering sex with someone, but if they brought it up...)

 

Agree here. On an individual level, a cpl's opinion on matters like this would almost never come into play (so to speak) for us because they would never likely come up in conversation unless the other cpl was very blatant about it.

 

At a club or party level, as the OP was discussing, if it were policy at that level, we would not be a part of it.

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      After she came down from her climax, her body just went limp, and she sank onto the bed face down. Ok, I understand about fast climaxes; been there and done that a time or two myself, but this is the first time I had experienced it happening with the woman I was with. Normally it’s the man that has this happening. I lay down beside her and put my arm around he, and kissed her on her shoulder. I can hear and feel her breathing hard, but that is all the response I get. I look over and Sue is still riding Dan’s dick. I see that glazed-over look in her eyes, one that I have seen many times before, and I know that she won’t last much longer. Just then, I see Dan arch his back and drive into Sue as deep as he can go, his hands are pulling Sue down onto his shaft, and I know that he is releasing his load into her. Sue is wide-eyed and tells him Yes, give it to me, and I know from being there that she has also reached her climax. I lay there and watched her rock back and forth as Dan kept his back arched to give her as much dick as he could. I know the feeling of her pussy muscles on a dick, and I know what he is feeling at this moment. They are constricting and relaxing, constricting and relaxing as she rocks back and forth. Milking every bit of his juice out that they can. I watch as they slow down, and then Sue collapses onto Dan’s chest; she starts that silly giggle that lets you know that you did a good job.
       
      Sue rolled onto her back next to Nancy and looked at me, and asked if I was enjoying myself, and I told him yes. Dan said he needed a drink and asked if any of us wanted one. Sue wanted a margarita, Nancy wanted a glass of ice water, and I said I could use a beer. As Dan was off to get the drinks, the three of us sat up in the bed, the women sat cross-legged, and I just slid up between them and used the headboard as a backrest. I could smell the must of just fucked pussy in the air. There were two women sitting crossed-legged with their pussies open for all to see, and I still had a hard-on. Sue spoke first and said to Nancy, " Did I not tell you he was a good fuck or not" At that point, I could have crawled under the bed, except that Sue was now rubbing my hard dick. Nancy agreed and said that she can’t wait to go again. Sue said that the night was young, but Nancy would just have to wait her turn now because she was next. Thank god Dan showed up with the drinks.
       
      The four of us sat there talking and sipping our drinks. We could hear the party going on in the other part of the house with the music and the occasional orgasm from one of the partygoers or another. Sue asked if we knew where Don was, and Dan said he saw him with Joann, to which Sue said, "Well, he will be occupied for a while". All this time, Sue was stroking my hard cock, then she said that it looked like I was ready to go again, and so was she. Nancy asked her if we could all do it like they did it at the last party. Sue looked at me and then back at Nancy and said that she thought it would be all right. I must have had a questioning look on my face because Sue told me that I would defiantly like this.
       
      Sue had me sit on the side of the bed with my feet on the floor. She then turned around and straddled me backward. I felt her guide my dick into her pussy as she sat down on my lap. " As exciting as the unknown is when having sex with a new partner, it is just as exciting as being in the know and having sex with someone that you have been with before. You know just what they like, and they know what trips your button; Sue knew just what to do to trip my button." She started to rotate her hips to give my dick that just-right grinding. Feeling her slow humping up and down along with the rotation was driving me insane. About that time, I felt a tongue wrapping around my balls and work up my shaft to where I was buried into Sue’s wet box. I looked around Sue to see Nancy on her hands and knees licking not only my balls and dick but also Sue’s wet pussy, and Dan was behind Nancy just fucking away. Sue started to rotate and moan, which caused me to shove up harder; Nancy was licking and sucking faster, which made Sue moan and rotate faster. It was like a snowball rolling downhill. The more it went on, the faster it got. I don’t know what was going on with Dan, and I did not care. I know that I came harder and longer into Sue’s pussy than I can ever remember doing. I remember falling back onto the bed with Sue laying on top of me and still feeling a tongue licking the both of us, and then I heard a far-off scream that said fuck me fuck yes fuck me.
       
      Sue was pulling on my arms and telling me it was time that we rejoined the party. We walked down the hall naked and into the den. We went to the bar, and I sat down on one of the stools. Sue went and got us both a drink and stood between my legs with her arms around my neck. She asked me what I thought of Nancy, and I told her that she was definitely different than any woman that I knew. She said that there was a long story behind that and she would tell me later, but not tonight, I laid my head down between her breast, and she was holding me and rubbing the back of my head when Don came walking up to join us.
       
      Don sat down on a stool, and Sue went over and put her arms around him and asked if he was having fun; I said that he looked like he had been road hard and put up wet. To which he came back with a one-word answer. " Joann". Sue and I just laughed, and I asked if she was still a whirlwind in bed, and he said that she was a man killer if you let her.
      Sue kissed us both and said that we men better get used to the whirlwinds because they are going to rule the world someday.
       
      Note from Jay:
      I have tried to express some of my feelings, thoughts, and happenings into the stories about how I got back into swinging after Dee’s death. I know that it is not your typical swing stories that you are used to reading here. I know that I have brought up couples out of the blue for those that have not been on this site for very long. There are stories posted by " Jay and Dee" that tells how we got started in the swinging lifestyle, how we found out that Don and Sue were swingers, and stories that were milestones in Dee’s and my journey into this wonderful lifestyle.
       
      A lifestyle that I thought had ended with Dee's death. A lifestyle of freedom, pleasure, understanding, and pure joy that I thought I would never be a part of again if it were not for Sue. Some might read into these stories that I have an infatuation with Sue. That is not true. I love Sue. If you go back and read The Surprise, you will know that I have known Sue since we were in elementary school. Her older brother was my best friend until we graduated high school; now, her husband is my best friend.
       
      If it were not for Sue and Don standing by me and pulling me out of my depression, getting me back into not only the lifestyle but life itself did I meet Pam.
       
      Pam is another story all together
       
      I lost Dee in 2004, and the stories about how I got back into the swing happened in 2006. In future stories, I will try not to go back too far into the past, but sometimes my thoughts go there, to a time, a place, or a person that is so important to me that I must bring it up for the story context.
    • By Spoomonkey
      I don't remember - in detail - just what it was that was said between myself and Marilyn that convinced her to swing. I know that I didn't discover the hidden key to the floodgate. But now, as I sit here thinking of her, picturing the passion on her face as she jerks another man's cock, I am flooded with excitement about the next time. But this is a story about our first time.

      Most people are sexual caterpillars, humping through life, eating off the same leaf, and waiting to be taken as lunch by whatever bird it is that finds us delectable. Some of us evolve. I've had the pleasure of watching Mari become a truly stunning sexual creature - a truly amazing phoenix on fire. I recall the long and sometimes frustrating 'raccoon stage' from the first talk to the first play. I remember waiting like a child for Christmas - eager and smiling, hopeful and naive. And I remember watching Mari emerge.

      It was a Friday night - our second at a club. I am not sure how many expectations either of us had - we'd promised ourselves not to 'expect.' We arrived early - when the TVs had not yet flipped over to porn movies and still played the Discovery Channel. Pretzel baskets not yet out, Mari and I found a place at the liquor-less bar. Our first time at a club, we went with a couple that we were friends with. They'd monopolized us that night, and we wanted to branch out - to meet new friends - to try new things. Nothing against them, we thought the world of those two, but we were ready to fly solo. So we waited. Unsure of how to talk to anyone - unsure of what to do next. I think we clung to that bar for an hour, Mari in her brown mini and sheer black top, me in a stew of nervousness that I hadn't felt since junior high. Eyes were on Mari - I could feel that. Not at all unexpected with her long legs riding a lucky barstool, gorgeous and generous breasts threatening to pour from her low top, bright green eyes dancing between a perfect smile and brown/red hair that could melt any man. I remember watching people watching us, watching them stare shamelessly at her.

      The club filled quickly that night - couples made their way to familiar cliques as a flood of single men made helpless attempts to get in on the play. I didn't know what we were looking for, but I was hopeful that we'd find it - so I took Mari by the hand and decided to explore. The barstools were doing nothing but putting our backs to the crowd. I wasn't surprised when a clumsily discreet gaggle of singles followed my Mari like puppies as we slowly made our way from room to room. Eventually, we found ourselves on the 'party floor' with a half dozen single men who tried so very hard to look casual but were obviously hoping that their choice of clothes or hairstyle had been the perfect one - and that Mari would snatch them up before they knew what hit them. Feeling a bit ornery, I leaned back against the wall, my beer in one hand, and whispered to Mari, "I want you to go down on me." I think the request shocked her a bit.

      "Right. Right now? Right here?" I could tell that she was feeling like a bad girl - she had the look, the walk. I knew she wanted to play - and I could think of no better way than to tease a crowd of men.

      "Yes," I said, smiling. "Right here and right now." I reached down to unzip myself as she dropped to her knees in front of me. My cock had been hard all day, knowing that tonight we'd be here - chasing the 'unexpected' - and it was obvious that Mari shared my excitement as she took me all the way down with one eager move. Her tongue danced on my shaft as her head bobbed happily. Her expert hands worked on what little cock she couldn't take in, and twelve eyes on six single men ate every movement. I was - for a short time - king of the 'party floor' as the most incredible woman in the club sucked my cock in front of a half dozen. I realized that as incredible as this was - this spotlight on my wife's giftedness - it was just the first step, a cracking of the egg, so to speak - the cocoon was just starting to open. Mari gobbled me with abandon, surprisingly unashamed, wonderfully aware of nothing but her husband's eager erection and approaching release. I sipped my beer and grinned as hungry eyes locked on the back of Mari's head. I could have watched that scene all night long, but it was far too early to 'cash in my chips.' Besides - I got to take this beauty home - so I helped her to her feet as she wiped the corners of her mouth. I think I saw a blush then, but it could have been desire. Either way, it didn't slow her down. I was ready to head downstairs and leave this group to their own devices, but a conversation about something - I don't remember what - kept me in place.

      Mari was approached by a single guy, and I remember thinking that it would be good for her to flirt. So - I turned my attention to whatever meaningless banter I was sharing - and left Mari to her fun. I don't know how long I talked - but I remember turning to look at Mari and the one guy with balls enough to approach her. And was surprised to see them kissing deeply, his hand enjoying her perfect breast. I processed a momentary jealousy. Who wouldn't be jealous of a woman as beautiful as Marilyn? What man in his right mind would offer such a perfect woman to the wiles of desperate single men? The kind of man who is so secure in his soulmate's love that he knows that no one will ever touch her heart just by groping her boob. And with that, I was over it. And my wicked smile returned.

      "Do I need to go get supplies?" I asked as I walked up behind Mari.

      "Hmmm?" She asked, somewhat dreamily, obviously ready to try her first threesome.

      "Supplies. Condoms." I said, trying not to kill the moment.

      "They're downstairs." Mari looked at her new friend, David, who was obviously willing. She smiled and nodded.

      "Okay," I said. "But here are the rules while I'm gone." I have an alpha male personality when it comes to swinging - provider, protector, top dog. "Just talk. No hands - no kissing - while I'm gone." Then I looked at David. "Break a rule, I break an arm." I think he knew I meant it.

      His nervous, stuttering, "Sure," gave me the assurance I needed to head downstairs. I didn't remember the walk to the locker room being so long, but the anticipation seemed to stretch the halls and stairways. But soon, I was back with an overly optimistic fist full of condoms and a hard-on that made it hard to walk. David and Marilyn were talking innocently, leaning against the wall - but seeing me was all it took for talk to end. Mari took David's hand and led him to a private room; I pushed the door closed as we entered, waving at the five guys who looked disappointed that we weren't going to put on a show.

      David wasted little time pulling Mari's breasts free and sucking on her long nipples. His style was rough, but Mari seemed to love the feel of this stranger's tongue and gently nipping teeth. I knelt behind her, pushing her skirt around her hips, and flicked her ass with my tongue. I slipped two fingers in her dripping pussy and felt her body jerk at the anticipated intrusion. Her hips rocked against my fingers and tongue as David pulled off Mari's top and bra, spilling her breasts into his hands and waiting mouth. Mari rubbed David's cock through his slacks, eager to find out just what she'd gotten herself into. Our collective passions blurred the room as hands un-hooked, unzipped, un-buckled, and soon the only clothes left were Mari's black garter and stockings. David had taken to his knees, taking his rough style of play to Mari's tender box as Mari resumed the head we'd started in the common area - her passion making her suck even harder, with more abandon. I thrust into her mouth gently, knowing that in her current state, she couldn't focus enough to keep me from going too deep. I watched her perfect tits roll as her body rocked on David's aggressive tongue. I switched places with David, letting him enjoy Mari's mouth for the first time. Mari gave a perfect, eager head, and I knew David was in for a treat - but I wanted my time with my wife's perfect pussy. Her long lips and deep folds are the perfect play place for big boys, and my tongue traced her outer lips through the gentle maze that leads to her dripping entrance and tingling clit. I slipped my fingers inside of Mari, curling them gently to find that magical-mythical spot that always seems to make a good orgasm a screaming one, and my tongue flicked gently at her oh-so-ready clit. I looked up to see David fucking Mari's mouth - and Mari thrusting back hungrily. I heard her cock-filtered moans as I brought her to the brink of orgasm. I quickened my tongue and my inner stroking, and Mari's mouth popped off of David's shaft. Her fist pumped him purposefully, but her eyes and attention were now focused on my face, pressed against her pussy. Her hips bucked with the beginnings of her orgasm, and her moans turned to screams as she came against my tongue. Mari fucked my fingers powerfully, her pussy sucking and pulling them deeper inside, and she threw her head back into the pillow and let out a long "YES!" as a wave overcame her.

      David knelt beside her, a stunned look on his face. "That was hot." Mari laughed at his grasp of the obvious as she pulled her knees together and her legs up - but we weren't going to let her off that easily. "Be gentle," I said as David went back down, and I brought my throbbing cock to Mari's mouth. I've always loved the way that Mari says thanks for a job well done - and tonight was no exception. David's tongue brought Mari over the edge two more quick times as she sucked my cock. Her body shivered weakly as the first orgasm had taken so much out of her. She moaned around my width but never let me go until her desperation got the best of her.

      "Fuck me." She said, her voice breathy, "Fuck me, please." I took her first, as David's cock hung in Mari's face, rubbing against her cheek as she thrust her body back against me. I pushed her legs to her chest as I buried my cock deeply into her. Her heat was tremendous, her body on fire as it lived out a fantasy it was so reluctant to even admit. David watched as I took my wife hard, thrusting deeply and angling my body to hit her just right. Mari gritted her teeth as she let out a strained moan, her fourth orgasm coming as a surprise - short but powerful. I pulled out quickly, knowing that there was one other thing that Mari wanted to try before we'd be able to call this a night. I lay against the wall as Mari got to her knees. She sucked hard as David pushed into her for the first time. It was her first 'extra' cock, and she seemed to shake from head to toe. "Is he in?" I asked, wanting her to process the reality of this moment. "Mmmm-Hmmm," she groaned as he pounded her. David fucked my beautiful wife hard from behind, thrusting deeply and quickly, racing towards an orgasm that had such a gorgeous build-up. And he reached that place far too quickly.

      "Where do you want him to cum?" I asked, stroking Mari's hair. "I want to see it," she said, her tongue flicking the head of my cock. "I want him to cum all over me." David responded to her wishes, pulling out and removing his spent condom. Mari rolled over on her back, pushing her breasts together and urging him to cover them. He had no problem doing so. David's excitement was apparent as jet after jet of his hot load landed on Mari's perfect tits.

      "Oh, god, yes," she cooed as he came. David let out one last grunt as his body jerked, and one last long stream of cum dripped onto my wife. I kissed Mari - realizing that I had seen her emerge. My perfect butterfly, covered with another man's seed. David collapsed at the end of the bed as Mari and I wrapped our hearts tightly around each other. We basked in the afterglow of an incredible fantasy, unaware that, for us, the night was young. We dressed, David and Mari kissed one last time, and then we left the room for the next adventuresome group.

      We fully expected to leave soon thereafter. Instead, almost unbelievingly, the stars aligned, and we had another encounter.

      Mari went to the bar, still sexily disheveled, and started talking to a single woman that we had met earlier, helping her fend off a torrent of attention, gladly taking on some for herself. Knowing she was having fun, I left her alone while I went to the restroom.

      I normally don't strike up conversations at the urinal, but all rules have exceptions.

      "I'm not gay," I said to the guy spilling beer one stall over, "but that is a really nice shirt."

      I wouldn't have said it if I hadn't meant it. Dark blue flames on white silk. Sharp as a switchblade.

      "Thanks," He said. "My wife bought it. I don't remember where."

      "Well - it's a great-looking shirt."

      The conversation eroded as our bathroom purposes came to an end, and we awkwardly took turns with the soap dispenser. He left before my paws were dry, and as I wiped the last of the evidence on my jeans, I walked out to put what I thought would be the final hit on my wife.I was quite wrong.

      Mr Nice Shirt was in the hallway with a gorgeous blond - tall and thin, with stunning blue eyes and long legs on high heels.

      "Hey, hon." he said, "where did you get this shirt? This guy likes it."

      She told me - but hell if I remember. I was captivated by her. Where she bought the shirt went in one ear and out the other, but her, I was drinking in till I reached the bottom of the glass. It was a nice shirt - but she was significantly nicer. I watched her lips as she talked and wondered what they tasted like; I watched her chest when she paused - also wondering what it tasted like. Soon the shirt was forgotten.

      But - I found out later - they thought I was a single, which wasn't their thing - and they excused themselves. I made my dejected way back to Mari - still with her single friend - still at the center of a crowd. I walked to the center and kissed her hard, because I could, and whispered in her ear, "Are you ready to go?" She nodded and told me she needed to check her hair before she did. I wasn't the only one who watched her walk to the restroom - perfect hips massaging the inside of her brown suede skirt. I sat at the bar, watching what passed for porn on the satellite feed, and waited...And waited...And realized I wasn't enjoying the porn enough to not be worried about my wife...I wandered through the club, weaving my way between connections being made and broken - singles getting lucky or rejected - women being fondled or ignored... The witching hour had arrived, and folks were grouping off with the hopes that productive conversations weren't about to produce wilted results. And in the bathroom door, Mari had become the target of Mr Cool-Shirt and his incredible wife. They stood in a tight but respectful group, chittering like old friends... I watch Mari laugh at some witty thing and then look up to see me walking her way.

      "That's my husband," she said, maybe a bit too proudly, and the blond woman whom I'd already memorized turned and smiled - wickedly surprised if that is a workable combination. A three-way conversation in the door of the women's room became a spirited four-way as we realized that - not only was I, not a single guy, we all had much more than that in common; two pairs of soulmates on different planes of experience. Best friends who do everything together - who were about to drift upstairs...

      They had been to many clubs and had much background in the lifestyle, and as we made our way upstairs, they shared themselves in a way that makes the lifestyle so much more than sex. We drifted from room to room, listening to them talk about their "hobby" and how they survived within it. For a moment, the idea of "playing" with our new friends disappeared as these gorgeous people became so incredibly fascinating. It seemed like every line of conversation revealed more in common, more useful advice, more to like...And then she closed the door...

      "I like you guys," Kim - this gorgeous blond said, her voice going from friendly to lusty. "Let's play."

      Mari and I snapped back to reality quickly. We were in a swing club, and we were not going home anytime soon... I didn't need to look at Mari to know that she was okay with this. I'd watched her as she watched Joe's lips move when he talked. I had seen her smile when he touched her shoulder. And I had absolutely nothing to think about as Kim lay on the bed, smiling and lifting her legs to show a shaved and pantiless play area.

      "What do you say?" She asked, staring at me hypnotically.

      Nothing... There was nothing I could say. I was hers - but better yet, she was about to be mine. Joe sat on a chair in the corner of the room - thinking, I suppose, that he might watch for a while. But Mari was having none of that, straddling his lap and wrapping her tongue around his. Kim lay on her back, and I ran my hands down her legs, lifting her feet and helping her with the boots that she wasn't going to be needing for a while. Her long thin legs were, on their own, plenty to enjoy - but when the boots were shed, my hands wandered higher as I slid onto the bed with her, kissing her gently at first - enjoying her soft but expert tongue. Her hands made short work of my belt as mine found her small, tight breasts. She seemed eager to catch up with Mari, who had quickly moved to a kneel in front of Joe and was blowing him madly - her head bobbing furiously.

      I didn't object and let her push me over to my back. My eyes caught Joe's, and he smiled widely, dazed but certainly feeling every stroke of Mari's expert tongue. Mari worked his shaft with one tight fist and had pushed the blue flamed shirt up to his strong chest. She was moaning around him - and he encouraged her. The sounds were nearly as hot as the visual of my beautiful wife gobbling our new friend with such abandon. I could have lost myself watching the two of them, just experiencing the pleasure my wife was giving another man, but I was soon pulled expertly out of the moment as bright blue eyes looked up at me past short blond hair, and a wet tongue flicked between a wicked grin and eagerly tasted the tip of my cock...I looked down at Kim as she rolled her tongue around the head of my cock, seeming to savor the taste. Her eyes locked on mine, and her smile never failed......until she took me into her mouth, slowly swallowing half of me and then pulling me out just as deliberately. I groaned, body twitching and cock responding to her attentions.

      "You like that?" she asked, a trail of my excitement still leading to her lips.I just swallowed and grinned - and she correctly took that as a "yes". Her eyes finally left mine as she took me again, this time with abandon. Her tongue danced around my cock as her lips tightly massaged my shaft. Her hands jerked me and my hips rocked slightly, finding her manic rhythm. I closed my eyes and enjoyed her expertise, my fingers twisting in her short hair. I could feel her taking me deeper until it seemed the head of my cock was so deep in her that I could almost feel it with the hand that was on the back of her head. Her warmth was complimented by a perfect wetness. She stroked me with one hand as her other hand massaged my balls - coaxing my cum from them - eager for a taste of her good work. I heard a squeal and looked up just in time to see a naked Mari tossed onto the bed beside us. Joe was naked as well - his tall, thin frame sporting a desperate erection. He dropped to the bed between Mari's legs and began to kiss her breasts, one after another, commenting loudly on her large, long nipples. Kim was looking over, obviously admiring them herself. She looked up at me, her lips still around my excitement, her face flushed. I smiled at her and nodded - unable to ask her if she wanted what Mari was about to be getting... Somehow she read me and nodded back - letting me go with a gentle pop - and climbed up on the bed, shedding what little clothing she still had on. I pulled off my shirt and settled between her legs.

      The wives were now on the bed, lying side by side, with two enthusiastic husbands now heading south hungrily. Kim's pussy was perfectly shaved with small lips and a perfect clit. I licked gently at first, tasting her fully... This was the first pussy I'd tasted since my marriage, and I was going to enjoy it fully. I slipped my hands beneath her ass to lift her slightly, angling her just right... And sunk my tongue deeply into her, tasting her as she tightened around the intrusion. She whimpered slightly and bucked - and I lost myself... My fingers swam in and out of her as my tongue found every unique spot that seemed to make her jerk with electricity. Her eyes were clamped shut as I ate her, and her hands gripped my head harder and more desperately, soon governing my attentions to just her clit as she climbed higher... Closer to the edge of orgasm. I heard Mari scream as she came, thrashing her hips forcefully against Joe's face, forcing him to hang on... Kim heard her, too, and seemed to catch Mari's orgasm just as Mari was coming down... One loud "OHH!" was all she moaned as her body spasmed beneath my feasting tongue. She jerked hard, holding my face tightly to her and riding her orgasm out against my tongue. I held her thighs as she began to land. She slid her hands to my cheeks and pulled herself to me. "My god," was all she said before she kissed me and pulled me back to the bed.

      Joe was on top of Mari, thrusting his fingers into her roughly, and Kim held me as we watched Mari cum again. Mari's vocal aerobics shook the walls again as she came a second time, right on top of her first one. She seemed to cum for minutes before she finally stopped thrusting her hips against Joe's aggressive hand.

      "Wow," Kim said, looking at me. "Is she always this loud?"

      "I'd like to think so," I replied, smiling.

      "I have no doubt, then."

      Kim grinned as she kissed me, pushing me to my knees. She crawled in front of me and took me in her mouth again, egging me on to thrust. I did so - watching as Mari laid Joe on the bed and then knelt between his legs again. I grabbed Kim's perfect ass with both hands and pushed forward gently, barely containing my arousal as Mari began to stroke Joe's thick cock.I heard Kim sucking me wetly, accepting my thrusts as Joe moaned with approval as Mari gave him a masterful hand job, puckering her lips around the head of his cock as she stroked him. My head swam for ten minutes, watching my wife and feeling Joe's. I was near the edge when Joe screamed out his arrival. Kim flipped around quickly, eager to watch her husband's pleasure, and slid a hand down to cup his balls just as he erupted. His first shot a foot into the air. Mari moaned, "YESSS!" as he came - excited at the sight of his orgasm. His hips thrust slightly as the rest of his orgasm ran down his cock and over Mari's still-pumping fist.

      He lay there - satisfied - and Kim turned, grinning, back to me. The only difference is that this time - so did Mari. I had four lustful eyes looking at me hungrily, and I knew that one of my favorite fantasies was going to come true. I was pushed back into the pillow and watched as a blond and brunette devoured my cock - neither of them losing steam. One would suck my balls while the other pistoned on my hot shaft - then they'd switch - dancing their tongues up either side of me as they went... "This is a vision you'll never forget," Joe chattered - coming back to his senses. I quietly agreed with him, watching as they pleasured me - unable to drink it in enough. Just the sight was enough to make me cum... The sensation of two talented tongues, two eager mouths, brought me closer to the edge than I ever thought possible... Joe seemed to agree, now standing at the side of the bed stroking a resurrected erection. But - I was the first to see them kiss...And it was almost too much... Kim and Mari's tongues soon discovered each other and left my cock to pursue each other. I was remarkably okay with that. Kim and Mari's passionate lip lock was more than Joe could handle.

      "Oh my god," he said to Mari. "I had no idea you were into that."

      "I wasn't," Mari said truthfully - and then quickly returned to what she swears was one of the best kissers she'd ever known. I joined Joe in the perverse ritual, not caring if they ever touched me again - as long as they didn't stop touching each other. Their hands fondled each other, their tongues twisted together... And the room seemed to heat up by twenty degrees.

      I'd never thought I'd see my wife so wild for another woman, but there they were, wrapped together, making out like high school kids. The scene proved to be too much, and Joe yelled out Mari's name. Mari moved over beneath him, her tongue out and eager, just as Joe came again. If it is possible, his second orgasm seemed larger than his first, streaming into Mari's open mouth in jet after jet. And that was enough for me... I knelt over Kim and let go of her waiting tongue. She excitedly swallowed what she caught - what she didn't streamed down her cheeks as I jerked out the last of my orgasm and collapsed beside her...I remember Joe leaving and coming back with a glass of pop for all of us to share, but for the life of me, I don't remember much else. We all lay together for a while - talking again like old friends and laughing. The biggest difference this time was being able to watch breasts jiggle with every well-told joke or story.

      We exchanged e-mails, hugs, and kisses... But I wasn't offered the shirt...When we finally left - the club owner was cleaning up, barely beating the sun, which would be showing itself soon. One of the staff smiled at us and said somewhat meekly, "You guys sounded great." I suppose she's right - a perfect encounter inspires some wonderful loudness. The night was a surprise from the start - we'd done more than we'd ever expected and made friends on top of it. And it was one of those friendships that inspired me to surprise Mari with one last step in her now complete emergence.
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