Jump to content
SwingAcademic

Are some couples too smug about their couple status?

Recommended Posts

Are some couples too smug about their couple status?

 

In just about anything non-academic I’ve read concerning swinging, there seems to be this notion of couples somehow being “better” than single people, and thus, more “qualified” to have swinger-type sex, just because they are couples, and for no other reason.

 

No one really comes right out and says it (except sometimes when referring to single males only) but single people, men and women both, seem to be perceived as any combination of the following:

 

Immature

 

Irresponsible

 

Selfish

 

Flaky

 

Don’t know how to fuck

 

Dangerous

 

Diseased

 

Only out for sex and nothing else

 

Doesn’t care if he/she messes up the couples’ relationship

 

Unable to form ANY kind of relationship

 

...And the list goes on.

 

I’m well aware of the reasons why some people want to be part of a couple unit in order to swing. But that’s not what I’m asking about. It just seems that some couples feel that they are, as I stated at the beginning, better than single people just because they are part of a couple unit.

 

Am I correct? And if so, why?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

We walk that line. As a couple, we like to play with couples. That is our preference. We do have one cardinal rule; we only play as a couple and we don't cum between couples (pun intended). So we don't have hall passes and don't play with those who do.

 

We have played with a single guy or two along the way. What we do want is honest people. We don't like to come across profiles or speak with someone on chat just to find out it was the guy all along. Or "she isn't into you guys but I would still like to meet". If you are single, then you are single. If you are married and playing on the side, then keep your mouth shut.

 

When we do seek out a single, it is only for fun, not friends or a relationship. We want someone who we (she) feels safe with.

 

No "better than" complex. We just want people to be honest with themselves and us. After all, we are all looking for the same thing.

 

I will go on to say...noticed you are a single male. No slight to you personally, but most couples new or seasoned in the lifestyle, will say they have had multiple negative experiences with single guys. I know that our BS is set very high due to our encounters with single men, on the whole.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

I do have to apologize, I forgot about my profile.

 

Yes, I am a single male. But I am not here as a "Single male looking for some." I am here to learn from people. That's why my nickname is "SwingAcademic".

 

I always thought it was best to be honest in the Lifestyle.

 

>>I will go on to say, noticed you are a single male. No slight to you personally, but most couples new or seasoned in the lifestyle, will say they have had multiple negative experiences with single guys. I know that our BS is set very high due to our encounters with single men, on the whole.

 

The reason so many single males are such a-holes in the Lifestyle is because they don't understand that women in the Lifestyle don't respond to the kinds of crap that single vanilla women respond to, and thus, these single males try to use the tactics that actually work with some of these vanilla women.

 

That said, back to my question. And thanks for your honest response so far.

Share this post


Link to post

I can't speak for others, only for ourselves. We are a couple and only play with couples because: neither one of us wants to watch while the other is playing and it doesn't interest either one of us to have a threesome. We have many single swinger friends but we don;t play with them for that reason alone. We are not trying to hurt anyone, we are just honest about what we like. If two singles are playing we will play with them because there are two people.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Your question is indicative of someone who is on the outside looking in. Your question is a bit mixed up and I can sort of see why you are asking what you are asking but it doesn't really make sense. Couples aren't "smug" about their couple status. The bulk of swinging are couples. There's no doubt about it. If there were to be any one group in the LS that were to have a "smug" attitude, it would be single females. Couples and single men alike seek them out. There's always talk about unicorns, wanting an extra female for FMF/FFM, or girl/girl play. Since it is a group that is in high demand and low in supply, single females are more likely to "get away" with behavior that single men would be ostracized for. Thus, the "smugness" would more likely creep in.

 

It is unfortunate that single men have a bad rap about having some of the qualities that you listed...but that is because there is a greater number of them. Before of their high supply and lower demand, sometimes the "one bad apple" can sometimes spoil the batch. We have met a lot of great single men who are respectful. But we have also met a lot more who didn't understand boundaries or weren't appropriate.

 

And as CoupleInMD stated, there are couples who also have the qualities that you listed and don't understand how swinging works--some view it as a free-for-all or a way to patch up a bad relationship, or etc. So, just as in every group any where in the world, there will always be those who are immature, irresponsible, selfish, flaky, and so on and so forth. It's not limited to one group or subset.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

I think 'careful' may be seen as smug. Stereotypes are not gained from rumors. They are there because a reputation is gained by experiencing it over and over. I'm sure my wife and I could appear smug when both our BS detectors go off at the same time and we look at each other with that 'here we go again' look. I'm sure we left more than one guy in his booth thinking we thought we were SO great for being a couple. Nah, just wanted to get out of a situation that was going nowhere.

 

There are awesome guys out there. We are hoping the guy we are having dinner with tonight will be one. But we both know going into it that there is a possibility that this won't go anywhere.

 

If you ever need proof of the reason for the stereotype, go to craigslist, casual encounters, m4mw, and pull up all the pictures and tell me anyone understands the most basic needs of a woman.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

As a person in a couple you have more to think about then yourself and you have more on the line then a single person does! Yes it would suck being a single guy in the lifestyle, but it is what it is. We personally will treat any single guy that contacts us with the same respect they do us. Unfortunately most of the time that is very little. Between the many guys that actually think a picture of their penis is all it takes to get a women's attention, one liners like hey nice ass, talking to you like the man doesn't exist, thinking that every woman in the lifestyle must be a loose cum whore, assuming all the husbands must be weak cuckolds, no show big talkers and married creeps pretending to be single it is pretty damn hard not to be hesitant when talking to single guys in the lifestyle. Are there goods guys out there? Sure but trying to figure out which ones are is no easy task. We would love to find one, but sure so not waste anytime with the above losers.

 

As for the smug comment yes there are smug couples out there just as there is smug singles. They are usually pretty easy to point out and avoid. Do have to agree with the above comment that there are a lot more smug single females then anything, because I guess they feel they can be with all the people desperately throwing themselves at them.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

I view singles similarly to people who take a bus to a Porsche driver training event. He gives me the opportunity for him to take my car out for a lap on the race track because he can make it do things I can't. He may be generous enough to allow me to take the bus home while he drives my wife home in my car, because it has only two seats.

 

I realize there are decent males who don't carry that attitude but why put up with their issues? Our regular play-couple was able fill in for a threesome when a spouse was away on business or just wanted to watch. Most importantly, it was possible for us to return the favor.

 

If you wish to be in the Lifestyle, SwingAcademic, find a woman, learn to communicate, get married, and understand what it is like to have one's dearest person in the arms of another man, whom you really don't know. I found it much easier when his wife was in my arms.

 

Otherwise, accept the limitations and play with the smaller number of couples who also like to play with singles.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I've never met anyone like that and if I did I would consider their opinions to be bizarre and would not miss having any kind of a relationship with them.

Share this post


Link to post

Sorry it took so long to respond. I've been busy with other things.

 

What I'm seeing as "smugness" appears to be similar to the pair-bond narrative that some people believe is human nature, rather than just a relationship preference for some people and not others. Similar to how our legislatures promote marriage by providing tax breaks for it, and courts seem to favor married people over single people.

 

Or like the evangelicals who like to brag about how they are in a "traditional marriage", which they think means that makes them somehow "better people".

 

I was told upon my first visit to a club, by the couple that escorted me in, that singles are considered to be somewhat "outcast" (This couple didn't cast ME out though. I met them for the first time in the parking lot of the club, and they escorted me in, and I later played with them.)

 

It just seems there's this air of "I'm part of a couple, therefore I am" sort of a thing. It doesn't seem to be seriously bad, just a small negative that I've noticed that seems unnecessary.

 

Many of the reasons for "couples only" are valid, but only up to a point. Many of them seem to be ultimately based on fear, or the old "That's the way it is" argument.

 

In this audio clip, beginning at 15:41, you can hear JustAskJulie state that "it has to be about the couple.", and that singles in the Lifestyle are there to "enhance the couples experience." Why does the Lifestyle have to be about one group being there to enhance another group's experience, rather than everyone trying to enhance everyone else's experience? Unless of course, one group is "smug". See what I'm saying?

 

 

I'd be willing to bet that in an area where swing clubs are legal but subject to serious zoning regulations, a club that catered mostly to singles would be gone after by the police and courts more than would a club for couples, due to the overriding "couples rule" narrative.

 

>>Your question is indicative of someone who is on the outside looking in.

 

I just realized that as for my status, I can put whatever I want. I thought I had to pick from the list that was there (Couple/ Single Male/ M. Male/ M. Female/ etc.) I changed mine to "Researcher". I like that better, as it doesn't inappropriately color my questions in anyone's mind. Of course, I'll have to change it back if I should be looking for playmates in the future.

 

>>If you wish to be in the Lifestyle, SwingAcademic, find a woman, learn to communicate, get married, and understand what it is like to have one's dearest person in the arms of another man, whom you really don't know. I found it much easier when his wife was in my arms.

 

Marriage is actually a bad idea these days. It's become legalized extortion. These days, people who are happily married should consider themselves extremely lucky.

Share this post


Link to post
SwingAcademic said:
What I'm seeing as "smugness" appears to be similar to the pair-bond narrative that some people believe is human nature....

 

I have sat and thought about this "smugness" you might be feeling and it could be the question of "Are singles swingers?". If that is the case, we do have a couple of discussions about it:

 

Singles are not "swingers"?

Are singles really swingers?

 

 

SwingAcademic said:
I was told upon my first visit to a club, by the couple that escorted me in, that singles are considered to be somewhat "outcast"

 

I would bet top dollar that the couple meant that single men are treated as outcasts and not single females. Single females almost always receive free entry into swinger clubs, swinger parties, and swinger events. Whereas single males are often asked to pay a premium rate to help curb the number of single men in attendance and to only encourage those who are serious about being there. That doesn't necessarily mean that the single men who pay that rate understand that it isn't a free-for-all but it decreases the number of men who want to go and have a cheap live sex show to jerk off to.

 

Another reason that single males might be considered "outcasts" is because I would bet any couple who has been swinging for a short amount of time have come across at least one single man who has leered at the wife, catcalled to her, pulled out their dick and started to masturbate while looking at her, touched her without her consent, or any other lewd behavior. Encountering this sort of behavior can make a couple wary of single men.

 

And have couples experienced this with single females? On a different scale, I would say. Obviously, they don't have a dick to pull out and rub but single females can be just as disrespectful. Fortunately, we've seen more single females who were respectful than the ones who weren't. If it were the other way around, we would be wary of single females as well. Unfortunately, since single females aren't as plentiful as single males, many couples are willing to "look the other way" of rude or disrespectful behavior to gain favor with that single female. Thus, some single females may see themselves as not having to follow the rules.

 

 

SwingAcademic said:
I'd be willing to bet that in an area where swing clubs are legal but subject to serious zoning regulations, a club that catered mostly to singles would be gone after by the police and courts more than would a club for couples, due to the overriding "couples rule" narrative.

 

Aren't there already clubs catering to singles? They are called vanilla clubs. Singles just then go to a hotel or to someone's house to fuck.

 

SwingAcademic said:
I changed mine to "Researcher".

 

It has been very clear from when you began questioning the forum (April of 2015) of your "researcher" status. With every thread you start, it feels like the swinging community is your personal group of gerbils for you to poke and prod and you wait to see how we react. Please, enlighten me...are you researching for your personal enjoyment or a professional paper? If it is the latter, we have had many researchers come on the forum in a more formal way kindly requesting for swingers to fill out a survey. We are much more likely to help out those researchers who are respectful than those "researchers" who come on here and have a condescending air.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

 

>>If you wish to be in the Lifestyle, SwingAcademic, find a woman, learn to communicate, get married, and understand what it is like to have one's dearest person in the arms of another man, whom you really don't know. I found it much easier when his wife was in my arms.

 

I noticed that you omitted the last sentence of my post, Researcher. "Otherwise, accept the limitations and play with the smaller number of couples who also like to play with singles." When you have a Porsche the Porsche Club will welcome you at their driver training events, and you won't be required to let any one else drive it.

 

Marriage is actually a bad idea these days. It's become legalized extortion. These days, people who are happily married should consider themselves extremely lucky.

 

Those who are happily married have always considered themselves "extremely lucky." They are. I felt lucky the whole 27 years. I'm still grateful for those years.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Would you expect to be treated the same way as everyone else if you went to a pot luck, didn't bring any food, but ate everybody else's? Went to a Chinese gift exchange without a gift and still took one? Went to a bring your own booze party without any booze and drank everyone else's?

 

The lifestyle isn't any different then anything else in the world! You get what you have to give! To many in the lifestyle (not all) the women are what is in demand. If you don't have one with you or are one you are going to be fighting an up hill battle and are going to have to have the thick skin needed to be able to get by all the guarded smugness to make a good impression.

 

It doesn't help your cause that 99.5 of the other single guys are not doing anything, but turning couples off with the way they approach them.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Would you expect to be treated the same way as everyone else if you went to a pot luck, didn't bring any food, but ate everybody else's? Went to a Chinese gift exchange without a gift and still took one? Went to a bring your own booze party without any booze and drank everyone else's?

 

If we're going to go the pot luck route, it's not that they bring nothing but that they all bring a similar dish, and what they bring needs to stand out from the rest. The couples bring dishes that are the "main entree" both protein and veggies in it. The single females bring desserts or chocolates. And the single males bring side dishes--things like chips, cole slaw, cold dishes, warm dishes, etc.

 

Many will want to add a dessert/treat to their meal. Meanwhile, some of the side dishes that the single males bring are expired, not warmed, or have little thought put into it. Some may want the dishes that they bring but the majority of them do not because they recognize the problems with those dishes (mostly crushed chips or cold li'l smokies = disrespectful, rude, creepy, etc.). Meanwhile, the single men who have brought tasty dishes like a risotto or a four-cheese macaroni and cheese dish (in comparison to a mac and cheese from a box) are offering something that others do want (i.e. respectful and thoughtful).

 

I hope you don't mind that I expanded on your idea, enhancer. :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I really like VegasLee's definition of this:

 

 

The first definition of swinging was "Recreational sex between consenting adults."

 

60's Swinging Singles was the big thing.

 

Nothing ever said someone had to be married or partnered to be a swinger.

 

80's came along and a certain group started pushing the "Lifestyle" and that it was for couples.

 

In the close to 40 years of having "Recreational sex with other consenting adults" I have been both a single and married.

 

I have never let others define what my place in life or this "Lifestyle" is.

 

Really, does not matter. As long as we are all having fun and happy with what you do works for you.

 

Just because I may not agree with you or you don't agree with me does not make either of us wrong.

 

"Recreational sex between consenting adults" is what I am studying basically. And it seems that these days, the only regular people who do this on at least a semi-regular basis or more, without any guilt, or in groups, are Lifestyle couples. "Regular people" meaning people who are not rock stars or sports stars or other millionaires.

 

>>I would bet top dollar that the couple meant that single men are treated as outcasts and not single females...

 

The first thing I asked when they said that was, "females too?" They said yes, if she seems to just be there to gawk or something. Of course, there weren't a lot of single females there.

 

>>Aren't there already clubs catering to singles? They are called vanilla clubs. Singles just then go to a hotel or to someone's house to fuck.

 

You've heard of an "open secret", right? Well, that statement is an open lie.

 

For starters, there is no such thing as an on-premise singles club. I saw how someone tried to get one going in Philadelphia a few years back, but it didn't succeed.

 

MGF Singles Only Swing Club. Coming this March. - XVIDEOS.COM

 

At least in my area (Kansas City), vanilla clubs are the absolute WORST place to go if you are looking for recreational sex with someone, male or female. There is no way to truly socialize in these clubs, because the music is turned up so loud. This is actually a business maneuver on the part of the bar owner. The owners know that if people are just sitting around talking to each other, they won't drink as much. This is why Lifestyle clubs that have liquor licenses also have to charge an entrance fee. If people are just socializing and fucking, they won't drink as much, and the place won't make enough money to stay in business. The women are in vanilla clubs "just to hang out", or at least that's what they say. They are usually there to try to cadge free drinks from stupid horny males. I myself have had to stop men who keep buying women drinks, thinking that one of these women will have sex with him. The women may be there with a group of friends, and they stay with that group and socialize with no one else, making me wonder why they didn't just go to one of their own homes to drink and talk. There is the phenomenon of the "bachelorette brigade"--women who come in as a group, and any male who speaks to any one of them will be subject to a panel discussion as to whether or not he would be a good sex partner. Usually, he won't pass muster, unless he's rich or something. When asked where their men are, they'll say "It's girls' night out." Usually, these types sit around and scowl at all the men in the place, thinking they are "creepy", even if a man is paying no attention to them. They are also usually wearing "slutwear", which is appropriate in a swingers' club where people are actually there with their minds open to the idea of hooking up, but it looks ridiculous in a vanilla club. You can go into a vanilla bar here on a quiet night, and see all the tables with only one gender or the other sitting at them, and none socializing with the other. People go to a trendy vanilla bar to see and be seen, not to hook up. Promoting the myth that women are in these clubs looking to hook up is what makes the bar owners and their employees more money.

 

If I were looking to hook up, I would avoid vanilla clubs like the plague.

 

>>It has been very clear from when you began questioning the forum (April of 2015) of your "researcher" status. With every thread you start, it feels like the swinging community is your personal group of gerbils for you to poke and prod and you wait to see how we react. Please, enlighten me...are you researching for your personal enjoyment or a professional paper? If it is the latter, we have had many researchers come on the forum in a more formal way kindly requesting for swingers to fill out a survey. We are much more likely to help out those researchers who are respectful than those "researchers" who come on here and have a condescending air.

 

I'm not here to "poke and prod" at people to see how they react, but am here to "pick their brains", if you will. I know I ask some difficult questions on this site, questions that many people in the Lifestyle might not normally want to think about or talk about. But they are the only ones who will have the answers.

 

I'm doing this research because I have a social agenda. If I'm successful, sex clubs will be everywhere, and advertised freely, without restrictions. That's not the only thing, though. I know what to do about things such as: our governments blowing money on abstinence-only programs for schools, trying to close down sexually-oriented businesses, women who think it's alright to claim sexual harassment at work just because they don't like a guy they work with, people getting fired because they are swingers, women making false rape claims and not having to show any evidence, teenagers getting put in jail for "sexting", etc. It's long and complicated to explain, so I won't go into it here. I'd like to deal with one subject at a time. As for surveys, I'm happy with the ones that have already been published. The book Swinging in America: Love, Sex, and Marriage in the 21st Century, by Curtis R. Bergstrand and Jennifer Blevins Sinski has just about all the survey information one could want.

 

I don't mean to sound condescending to anyone.

 

>>I noticed that you omitted the last sentence of my post, Researcher. "Otherwise, accept the limitations and play with the smaller number of couples who also like to play with singles." When you have a Porsche the Porsche Club will welcome you at their driver training events, and you won't be required to let any one else drive it.

 

The last sentence was irrelevant because I am not looking for playmates.

 

>>Marriage is actually a bad idea these days. It's become legalized extortion. These days, people who are happily married should consider themselves extremely lucky.

 

Those who are happily married have always considered themselves "extremely lucky." They are. I felt lucky the whole 27 years. I'm still grateful for those years.

 

When I said "extremely lucky", I meant they avoided a serious problem. Like saying someone who drove home stinky drunk every night for 27 years and didn't get into a car accident is extremely lucky.

 

>>Would you expect to be treated the same way as everyone else if you went to a pot luck, didn't bring any food, but ate everybody else's? Went to a Chinese gift exchange without a gift and still took one? Went to a bring your own booze party without any booze and drank everyone else's?

 

The lifestyle isn't any different then anything else in the world! You get what you have to give! To many in the lifestyle (not all) the women are what is in demand. If you don't have one with you or are one you are going to be fighting an up hill battle and are going to have to have the thick skin needed to be able to get by all the guarded smugness to make a good impression.

 

This basically goes back to "Why do only couples think it's alright to have recreational sex regularly, and with various people?" When a two single men and two single women get together to have sex, they are each giving and getting to and from each other, respectively. With two couples, it's the same thing, but they thought there had to be a couple unit first.

 

 

All this said, this issue is small potatoes, but it is one that I'm really wondering about. I saw a survey right here on Swingersboard (I misplaced the link), that showed that roughly 50% of couples are willing to play with singles, and something like another 10% ONLY play with singles. So it's not like singles are completely outcast, only somewhat so.

 

If a single male wants to learn all about how to be successful in the Lifestyle, then I highly recommend Daniel Stern's book Swingland: Between the Sheets of the Secretive, Sometimes Messy, but Always Adventurous Swinging Lifestyle. Mr. Stern is a single male himself, and even opens his book basically warning single males to stay away from the Lifestyle, because he, too, knows what kinds of problems single males can be, if they don't know any better. The rest of the book discusses at length how a single male can be successful in the Lifestyle. Of course, it also goes into some of his personal swinger stories.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...