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  1. Back To Top | #1

    Default MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    So, me and my partner of 5 years finally had our first swinging experience. And we definitely jumped in with both feet so to speak! Our first evening contained incredible highs and, unfortunately, some lows which I am left to think through hence this post.

    To start with let me tell you a little about us both. We are both madly in love, have a great sex life, are very good communicators and are both happy confident types. We both agree we are in the best relationship of our lives (she was previously married) and so entered this from a solid base.

    To get to the point we have both been discussing the idea of sex with another person for a year or so. It both turns us on incredibly so we finally decided to give it a try and went to our first club last Halloween. We discussed all possibilities but agreed that we would like to try MFM with a goal to pick up a couple or single male. We both agreed that the single male would be less complicated and I also wanted this to be a good experience for her to avoid any possible complications or jealousy on her part. In terms of rules, we would pick the individual or couple together and we would be willing to let it go "all the way" unless the other signalled discomfort (with the exception of kissing and cuddling). We also agreed there would be no exchange of contact information or contact after the event.

    So we got to the club of our choice and had a few drinks and after talking to several couples she found a man she liked. He approached us and seemed very cordial, friendly and a gentleman. We sat down at a table and talked a bit. After a while me and my partner danced (we both love to dance!) which naturally led to him asking if he could dance with my partner and I agreed that would be fun. They danced and all was good. Subtle flirting but at all times respectful on his part.

    To cut a long story short, we ended up taking a taxi back to our hotel room. More flirting in the back seat which continued over drinks in our room. Sat on the sofa I started making out with my partner which with some invitation from both me and my partner led to the three of us making out and we were all missing our clothes fairly quickly. This was one of the most erotic moments of my entire life. Skipping forward a little but still on the sofa we both indicated that he could enter her while I continued playing with her. An amazing moment that was as he first pushed into her. So far so good! Now I should mention at this point that although the evening was going well my partner and I had made one mistake already - we had been drinking quite a bit over what was a fairly long evening.

    Anyway, from the sofa we quickly went to the bed where me and our new friend were both playing with my partner. Fairly quickly he popped on a condom and entered her again, this time starting to fuck her quite vigorously (forgive my language).

    We were both a little surprised at how quickly he seemed to be moving but to be honest we both we emjoying it. It was thrilling to experience, as much for me as for her. I continued playing with her as he was in her. However, at some point the dynamic started to change. Before I knew it he seemed to be repositioning her, almost monopolising her and continued to do this. She seemed to be enjoying his assertiveness and I admit is was amazing to see her being pleasured by another. However, his many positions were certainly not aimed to include me and my partner soon appeared to totally forget I was there. I was surprised at seeing all this but was still very aroused. I did attempt to join in occasionally but felt very much like an accessory and the mechanics of the act (with him very much all over her given their positions) made me more of an irritation than part of a threesome. At no point did either he or my partner attempt to engage me in any way. The two became very intense and had sex in many positions - nothing I hadn't done before but quite a show nonetheless. They seemed to go at it for quite a while (understatement) with me not finding any meaningful way to re-engage.

    Finally he picked her up off the bed we were on and moved her to an adjacent bed (two queens in the hotel room) and fucked her on the edge of the bed. He finally came (she had been coming continuously as she typically does). After that they lay beside each other and I being soooo turned on finally decided it was my turn. Imagine my surprise when my partner closes her eyes and falls to sleep. I caressed her as did he but at the moment it was clear to me that the evening was over for her at which point the meaning of the prior events changed dramatically for me. At the moment it was clear they were both "finished" I felt humiliated realising how the threesome was really a twosome in which I had played only a minor role. This was not what we had discussed and certainly not how we had played out the fantasy oursleves. Nonetheless, I avoided drama, bit my tongue and our guest politely bid us farewell leaving us his business card (we have of course not contacted him which we had agreed would be the case regardless).

    In looking back on it, I'd have to say I have two very different feelings. On the one hand the evening began as one of the most erotic of my life. However, I also felt like the my partner and guest betrayed my trust. If I invited someone over for dinner I would not expect to see them hoard all of the food which I was so eager to share! Initially I also felt my ego bruised, that she had chosen him and ignored me. My partner and I have discussed this at some length since. She herself is surprised this is how things worked out and partly believes alcohol impaired her judgement and also comments that her recollection of some of the events is not all that it should be. Knowing that our nervousness (or excitedness?) caused us both to drink more than we are accustomed to (lesson one!) I have no doubt that what she is saying is true. So the bottom line is she is not much able to help me as the evening remains a bit of a blurr to her. Nonetheless she has admitted it was a thrill and any hesitation she might have had towards the lifestyle has gone and she is already talking about trying it again.

    It's not quite been a week since this happened and to be honest my feelings are still changing so I intend to sit tight and see where we end up. Perhaps we will try this again, perhaps not. However, in the meantime I do have a few questions which I would like to put to some of you more experienced players. So finally (to the point of my post!) here goes:

    1. First and foremost, has any of you found yourself in a similar situation and if yes, how did you deal with it during and after the encounter?

    2. Based in this initial experience of MFM, my sense of the dynamics of the MFM threesome is that there is a very strong bond between the male when penetrating the female that may make the second (non-penetrating) male somewhat irrelevant at that point in time. Is this dependent on the psychology of the particular female and male having intercourse or is this situational? Or is this just my inexperience? I should note that my partner is far more vaginally focussed than any girl I ever dated. Clitoral stimulation etc. is all secondary to her and we have had plenty of time to explore each other from tip to toe as it were.

    3. I realise that many men watch during MFMs, some participate and some take turns. I definitely could have removed the fellow from her at any point but given they were both having such a great time and I expected I would be next I had no reason to "muscle in". Was this a mistake? She was certainly well beyond receiving subtle signals!

    4. Do you guys do anything to prep the "guest" to ensure that things like this do not happen? I am typically quite a dominant male and this fellow was smaller and relatively unassuming. Thus my partner likely assumed I would take control of the situation. However, it seems to me that all three people need to be of the same mindset to make this a fair exchange and no single individual can make it happen.


    OK, this has been a very long post and I thank any of you that have read this far! Any advice, tips or pointers would be appreciated. The main lesson we have learned is to keep the alcohol intake down. However, I suspect that we have a little more talking to do before we try anything like this again.

  2. Back To Top | #2

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    Firtst let me say I am sorry you are having negative feelings and the fantasy you both shared previously didn't turn out the way you'd hoped. Keep in mind that fantasies usually don't as what you can control in your mind is now affected by how the other players respond. That being said the journey into the lifestyle is full of learning experiences try not to view things as negative or mistakes merely as a chance to fine tune the "fantasy" next time. It is easy to get caught up in the moment and "forget" the original intent sometimes. Had the shoe been on the other foot and you were engaged in a 3 some with a women she might be feeling just as you are now....the newness, the excitement , the flattery and the attention of someone new. I am not making excuses for anyones behavior merely trying to help you see how it could happen especially when you've both drunk more than normal.
    We don't really play in 3somes preferring couples where we can mix things up and switch back and forth with our own partners ect. But we did have a couple swap several years ago that went a very similiar route. This women was all over Mr Sav and myself although she wasn't into girls at all and told me "I do this just because he likes me to " (UGHHHH!!) in any event we get busy and shes riding Mr Sav like a porn star (poses and all ) and all her hubby wanted to do was watch them . The only thing he wanted (expected) from me was a blow job as he pulled my hair and he vocally encouraged her in her little performance ( I say that because truly it was a bad ACTING show) In any event here I am completely BORED, sickened by their little show as she wasn't into Mr Sav as much as she was into putting on a show for her hubby and eventually just left the room. Honestly I was offended that Mr Sav was so lost in this little game he did not notice how aggravated I was by this man and his wife but like you said he seemed to be having a good time why ruin it? It was only later when we discussed it he realized what a bad situation I was put in although he might not have minded being "used" I sure as hell do .
    Now then to your issue at hand talk , talk and then talk some more. Dicuss what you did like, what you didn't like what you'd like to see more of , what you never want to see again etc. Also establish some form of communication to use during play to use just in case you are feeling left out, a word or particular touch that she will know means she needs to refocus on you for a moment .
    Use this experience to expand on your fantasy and than make sure you communicate this to any potential partner. There is nothing wrong with saying before hand "Look , what we are interested in is a true 3some where we switch back and forth pleasuring my wife " make it clear you will not just sit on the sidelines. In the actual heat of the moment there is also nothing wrong in saying "Oh baby I need you " be assertive .Remember this is YOUR fantasy as a couple and if it isn't going as planned only YOU can turn things around. In that situation I should have jumped in, claimed my man and engaged him more myself and made him aware of how I was feeling . The fault lies as much on my own shoulders .
    Even with our years in swinging we are still learning what works and what doesn't, every encounter has the potential to present something we haven't faced before and so we might not be best equiped to deal with in relation to our partners feelings in the heat of the moment .
    Learning experiences , not mistakes! Maybe try couples , there is something there for everyone at all times lol.
    Good luck to you both and go easy on your wife; this was all new to her as well and she too has things to learn just like the rest of us.

    Mrs Sav
    That Dumb Blonde Next Door

  3. Back To Top | #3

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    I would not get too upset over this incident. It was your partners first experience and she got carried away by the moment. I think your single guy took advantage of both of you being inexperienced. Sadly, many sm's who hang around on the edge of the lifestyle behave as if they have broken the code and have discovered the easy button to getting laid. He pushed the envelope a little by changing positions and when neither you nor your partner reacted, he was in total control and behaved like the alpha dog.

    Consider it a lesson learned. Debrief the situation with her, make sure you both know where you two lost control of the night and take steps to avoid those mistakes in the future. As a side note, I'd make sure the other guy never gets close to you two again. He was disrespectful to you both and to your relationship.

  4. Back To Top | #4

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    Hello, this is Petra, so you will be getting a woman's point of view on your questions below. First, thank you for posting, we all learn something when people share the good and the bad about their experiences. And I definitely agree with you - keep the alcohol down when setting out on the road to adventure. If you like to drink before engaging in play, wait until you have a dependable, regular partner and situation. See me responses to your questions Below in bold.


    Quote Originally Posted by Moondance View Post

    1. First and foremost, has any of you found yourself in a similar situation and if yes, how did you deal with it during and after the encounter? Not specifically this situation, but we have all had bad experiences. Talk about it and move on, realizing that you are a bit wiser now. But remember that there are many men and a few women here that would love to be in you situation of having to make a relatively minor adjustment to their approach to to sharing. There are people here that wish their spouse would give it a try any which way; some wish their spouse would at least talk about it. Count your blessings in that regard.

    2. Based in this initial experience of MFM, my sense of the dynamics of the MFM threesome is that there is a very strong bond between the male when penetrating the female that may make the second (non-penetrating) male somewhat irrelevant at that point in time. Is this dependent on the psychology of the particular female and male having intercourse or is this situational? Or is this just my inexperience? I should note that my partner is far more vaginally focussed than any girl I ever dated. Clitoral stimulation etc. is all secondary to her and we have had plenty of time to explore each other from tip to toe as it were. I guess it depends, but face it - when two people are fucking they are usualy really into it and into each other (to put it bluntly). The two things I see are: you didn't really set out a plan beforehand, like alternating being in her, (not that it is necessary, but if you don't have one you have to take what comes) and, the drinking. When I am in an MFM with my guys either I have a complete session with both, foreplay and vaginal intercourse, or we do a DP.

    3. I realise that many men watch during MFMs, some participate and some take turns. I definitely could have removed the fellow from her at any point but given they were both having such a great time and I expected I would be next I had no reason to "muscle in". Was this a mistake? IT DEFINITELY WAS NOT A MISTAKE! It was a wonderful gift you gave to her. Pat yourself on the back for your unselfish behavior and make it better next time. She was certainly well beyond receiving subtle signals! That was a good/great thing. Many men here would consider you lucky. Again, she may have been up for more had she less to drink.

    4. Do you guys do anything to prep the "guest" to ensure that things like this do not happen? Although many here advise against it, we have only had sex with people we both got to know fairly well beforehand. So no experience with strangers. Also different - We start out playing alone at first so all can actually get comfortable with the situation. I am typically quite a dominant male and this fellow was smaller and relatively unassuming. Thus my partner likely assumed I would take control of the situation. However, it seems to me that all three people need to be of the same mindset to make this a fair exchange and no single individual can make it happen. One male trying to dominate the situation over the other can only lead to trouble. The goal of both should be to go out of their way for the others, particualrly the woman, to have a good time and feel appreciated. If the personalities and dynamics are all aligned and agreed on, however, there can be some fantasy game playing between the males. I don't see this alignment as likely between strangers. But sometimes my bf, who is shy and smaller, likes to assert to my husband, who is out-going and muscular, that I am still his cunt (bf and I were a couple before I married my husband), and for hubby to watch us fuck. It gets them both aroused and hubby derives great pleasure in "taking me back" in round two. But this is fantasy play that has developed over several years.
    Keep at it, good luck, and keep us updated.

  5. Back To Top | #5
    rdy46227
    Guest rdy46227's Avatar

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    The good news is that this experience wasn't fatal, and doesn't have to be more than a slight bump in the road that you both learn from. I'm most optimistic that you will talk this out, she will see how her actions hurt you, and will both will adopt rules to prevent problems in the future.

    I would start with one about signals and unconditionally honoring a partner's request for a time-out, or for a unilateral cessation.

    Next time (if she lets things get away from her) you'll use them, and she'll accept your demand in favor of your relationship.

    You may also choose to do a little more qualification on a future partner, since your (unexpressed but very reasonable) expectations weren't held by the play partner you chose.


    Observations:

    1. Alcohol requires a fine balance, especially with sex with others than your primary partner. A touch can help loosen inhibitions, and especially for females, a touch more will let them embrace things better. And too much impairs judgment, and especially for males, hurts mechanical performance.

    2. I believe your spouse really enjoyed herself in part because the extra booze let her focus almost exclusively on her experience. And negatively, it let her loose track of your experience.

    3. Your expectations about both males being involved were quite reasonable. While there are times when one or the other guy is resting or observing, working together is supposed to be the norm. That's why there are two of you.

    4. I see you "taking one for the team" more and more as the situation progressed. "Don't take one for the team" is a guideline often echoed on this board. In other words, you were too nice a guy by letting things go on just because your spouse was in such ecstasy.

    5. You were the "slowest one" in accepting the situation and thus had an obligation to put the brakes on things. "Go with the slowest" is another guideline often echoed on the board. Experience shows that stopping a situation, in the long run, is generally the best thing to do. Even if a spouse is miffed because they were doing fine when time was called, they realize that their spouse's feelings are more important.

    6. It is also possible that he parsed your non-intervention as meaning you wanted a "hot wife" or "cuckold" situation. That's pretty much what you got, whether he was intentionally providing it or not.

    7. A by-product of your spouse's impairment is that she ignored your needs when she totally used up her capacity. Most couples always hold back enough for their partner afterwords. Frequently accounts end with something like "after it was over we had incredible sex with each other".

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondance
    {snip}1. First and foremost, has any of you found yourself in a similar situation and if yes, how did you deal with it during and after the encounter?
    Fortunately (or unfortunately) I don't remember that any of my multi-partner encounters suffered this way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moondance
    2. Based in this initial experience of MFM, my sense of the dynamics of the MFM threesome is that there is a very strong bond between the male when penetrating the female that may make the second (non-penetrating) male somewhat irrelevant at that point in time.

    Is this dependent on the psychology of the particular female and male having intercourse or is this situational? Or is this just my inexperience? I should note that my partner is far more vaginally focused than any girl I ever dated. Clitoral stimulation etc. is all secondary to her and we have had plenty of time to explore each other from tip to toe as it were.
    You probably are giving too much credit to their lusty coitus. It may have driven them onward, but they were not possessed. The vast majority of swinging males keep enough control to stop when told to ("no means no") in the heat of passion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moondance
    3. I realize that many men watch during MFMs, some participate and some take turns. I definitely could have removed the fellow from her at any point but given they were both having such a great time and I expected I would be next I had no reason to "muscle in". Was this a mistake? She was certainly well beyond receiving subtle signals!
    Yes. As always, when things drift outside the preset limits, direct unilateral intervention is justified. If you choose not to intervene, then you've implicitly re-negotiated the limits and you should really desire those new limits.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moondance
    4. Do you guys do anything to prep the "guest" to ensure that things like this do not happen? I am typically quite a dominant male and this fellow was smaller and relatively unassuming. Thus my partner likely assumed I would take control of the situation. However, it seems to me that all three people need to be of the same mindset to make this a fair exchange and no single individual can make it happen.
    Generally, we know the 3rd well enough that there aren't any surprises. However, a previous SO would always do a level-set just before things got serious. One female 3rd (FMF) did the same, addressing herself to my spouse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moondance
    OK, this has been a very long post and I thank any of you that have read this far! Any advice, tips or pointers would be appreciated. The main lesson we have learned is to keep the alcohol intake down. However, I suspect that we have a little more talking to do before we try anything like this again.
    Good Luck! I'm sure you will find a enjoyable future in the lifestyle.

    PS: Shred his business card.

  6. Back To Top | #6

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    I have to disagree with the previous posters. I encountered the very same thing with my ex (this is the Mr. BTW). I found it humiliating. First and foremost, drinking and swinging is like drinking and driving......sooner or later BAD things happen. This is a BAD thing that happened. You should steer away from the single male thing either for a very long time or permanently. Stick with MARRIED couples.

    This is a huge red flag to me It's better off that you don't tempt fate IMHO. I have other stories about the very same thing, but at the risk of getting flamed I think I'll leave it alone.

  7. Back To Top | #7
    Swingers Board Addict shrevecouple's Avatar
    Status
    Couple - She posts, He reads

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    I can only input the one experience we have had so far. My husband and I had our own first experience a couple months back and it was a MFM. Luckily the guy we ended up with was very respectful and didn't try to "take over". Our main low was that my husband's nervousness affected his erection.
    I can honestly say, I knew I was the center of attention but I wanted to make sure my husband was into it the whole time and his little problem made it worse. He did get to play but it was not constantly. The times he was away I was so concerned about him I couldn't focus on my own pleasure. LOL
    When we talked about this later he was totally ok with me enjoying myself while he "regained his composure". We also had had nothing to drink so we were completely aware of everything. We actually think we probably should have had at least a couple to help us relax a little.

  8. Back To Top | #8
    rdy46227
    Guest rdy46227's Avatar

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    Reading Petra's comment...

    Quote Originally Posted by couplers
    IT DEFINITELY WAS NOT A MISTAKE! It was a wonderful gift you gave to her. Pat yourself on the back for your unselfish behavior and make it better next time. She was certainly well beyond receiving subtle signals! That was a good/great thing. Many men here would consider you lucky. Again, she may have been up for more had she less to drink.
    If you want to view it as a gift, she's absolutely right. It just boils down to how much (and exactly what) the impact from the whole experience has (or you choose to let it have) on you.

  9. Back To Top | #9

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    Having been in more MFM threesomes than we can count, here are our thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondance View Post


    1. First and foremost, has any of you found yourself in a similar situation and if yes, how did you deal with it during and after the encounter?

    2. Based in this initial experience of MFM, my sense of the dynamics of the MFM threesome is that there is a very strong bond between the male when penetrating the female that may make the second (non-penetrating) male somewhat irrelevant at that point in time. Is this dependent on the psychology of the particular female and male having intercourse or is this situational? Or is this just my inexperience? I should note that my partner is far more vaginally focussed than any girl I ever dated. Clitoral stimulation etc. is all secondary to her and we have had plenty of time to explore each other from tip to toe as it were.

    3. I realise that many men watch during MFMs, some participate and some take turns. I definitely could have removed the fellow from her at any point but given they were both having such a great time and I expected I would be next I had no reason to "muscle in". Was this a mistake? She was certainly well beyond receiving subtle signals!

    4. Do you guys do anything to prep the "guest" to ensure that things like this do not happen? I am typically quite a dominant male and this fellow was smaller and relatively unassuming. Thus my partner likely assumed I would take control of the situation. However, it seems to me that all three people need to be of the same mindset to make this a fair exchange and no single individual can make it happen.
    Unfortunately, reality will never be as scripted as fantasy. One of the keys is to take those parts and pieces of the reality that were good and emphasize them during the next encounter.

    When dealing with the second man in a MFM threesome, it's important to relay what it is you're wanting out of the threesome. He is no more a mind reader to your thoughts than you are to his. If at any time during the threesome things aren't going in the direction you want them to, there's nothing wrong with saying so....subtle hints during the heat of the moment most likely won't work here.

    For us, we always lay out our expectations, what's allowed, what's not allowed, AND we always ask our third what it is they are wanting to get out of the encounter. Communication is not just between the couple.

    It seems as if you're most upset about not having participated more during the encounter. We're all responsible for our own actions or inactions. If you want to be more involved...get involved. It's not fair to our partners to blame them for having a good time and not acknowledging our presence if we don't make our presence known.

    There are times in threesomes where all will be involved. There are also those times where only two will be involved...no way is right or wrong, it's just the flow of the situation. There have been numerous times with us where one of us has sat out and watched the other knowing that if/when the urge strikes we can jump right back into the action.

    One of the main keys to having and enjoying threesomes, for us, is being able to enjoy totally what our partner is doing whether we're directly involved in it or not.

    Each encounter is a learning experience. It doesn't seem as if your first encounter was all bad. Focus on the good parts and learn from those parts that weren't what you wanted.

    As to your GF passing out...don't take it personally...there's a fine line to walk when it comes to drinking and playing and with experience it gets easier to define that line. Hell, we've passed out on each other after a play session even when neither of us were drinking.


    Ted & Teresa
    Ted and Teresa
    No lifetime is enough unless you live it in such a way as to make it enough.

  10. Back To Top | #10

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    I look at it this way. Every experience isn't a 10. Every bottle of wine is not the best. Not every lobster hits the spot, and most importantly if there is too much anticipation, you can't possibly live up to your fantasy.

    I know it sounds stupid to say but it is also the proverbial, "falling off of the horse and getting back on...as soon as possible".

    My problem personally is that my imagination is so vivid, that the reality can't possibly live up to the expectation.

    I constantly am cautioned by the ladies that don't be disappointed. In fact I have been turned away because the lady was afraid she wasn't up to my standards.

    One of the things I like about experienced swingers in gerneral is that even though they may not NECESSARILY have the highest of IQ's, they are all very sophisticated. This is not something that you do it once and you totally understand it.

    There is seemingly at times an expotential interation of personalities and the most important sex organ involved here is the brain. Seduce it and the body follows. All of your fears will appear at one time or another.

    You will think you are over something or more mature and low and behold, you regressed to a seemingly childish state that you never knew was there.

    Swinging is mind games with the body following. Some people will "see it", others never will and will feel hurt.

    Best to develop swing friends and leave it at that. These are human relationships and you are pushing the envelope and not everyone will work out AND everyone has different rules.

    Just my opinion. Not speaking for anyone else, and yea, some of them still scare me a little too. Makes me wonder what exactly "they" are talking about sometimes and does yes mean yes or maybe...

  11. Back To Top | #11

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondance View Post
    1. First and foremost, has any of you found yourself in a similar situation and if yes, how did you deal with it during and after the encounter?
    Been there, done that, in this thread I started. about feeling "out of the loop". I head butted my way right back in, with no complaints from Mrsfun, or Mrplaymate.

    The thing for us is, we learned from it. No, I didn't have alcohol to blame in any way. He and Mrsfun drank, moderately. I have drank with him, but not in a swing situation. We learn from mistakes as well as improve. We have still played with this man, although not recently, for other reasons not swinger related . Hes a great playmate, and has many lifestyle friends.

  12. Back To Top | #12

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    I think that if you're talking to a single male about an MFM, or a couple about a swap, or any kind of play situation, it's very important to actually discuss outright what kind of experience you're looking for. If it's important to you to be engaged with your wife most of the time and give her a two guy experience rather than for you to watch her with the single, you should say just that to the guy before you all agree to play. And then as TNT said, you should also ask him what he's looking to get out of the experience. Of course you and your wife should be looking for the same things. If her desire is to be with someone else while you watch, and that's not going to do it for you, then you have to work that out.

    Has she come to this thread and posted her thoughts? I for one would be really interested in hearing her perspective on this whole thing.

    And, last but not least, as you already know... dial back the alcohol to a level that increases the fun without taking away your concern for and awareness of each other.
    Through every dead and living thing, Time runs, like a fuse. -- Jackson Browne

  13. Back To Top | #13

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    I have had a similar experience and when the guy did not move over I had to end it. We have had other experiences that were some of our best. I agree with what has been said and I will make a suggestion. In addition to telling him what you expect also tell him you will go first and when you are ready to switch you will let him in and if he doesn't want to switch back in what you consider a good time then you call for the switch. In short you take the lead and direct him in what he is to do.

    I also would suggest you invite your partner to the forum and have her read these posts. They should give you much to talk about.

    Better luck next time.

  14. Back To Top | #14

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    Quote Originally Posted by lotsoffun201 View Post
    You should steer away from the single male thing either for a very long time or permanently. Stick with MARRIED couples.
    I must agree with this. Married couples have just as much to lose as you do while singles risk nothing. Additionally, there are a lot more possibilities with couples, provided they are willing to take turns. Couples were always our choice because they fully understood what we were doing.

    Alura
    "They may call me a rube and a hick, but I'd a lot rather be the man who bought the Brooklyn Bridge than the man who sold it."
    óWill Rogers

  15. Back To Top | #15

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    I have to ask if instead of falling asleep your wife had then had sex only with you with the SM watching or getting something to drink or whatever would it have been a good experience.

    I've been in more than a few FMF and some of them as part of "the couple" and rarely are two alike, even with the same people involved. The best advice I can give is go with the flow and enjoy.

    Maybe the best advice would be to use communication. On the board here, we hear everybody say that a couple has to communicate, communicate, communicate. The same holds true for ALL involved. Non verbal communications are often not noticed, misread, misunderstood. Verbal communications are best.

    Once, the husband of a couple I swung with pretty regular told me after a play session he thought I had spent too long performing oral sex on his wife at one point that he had wanted to do it too. I told him I was sorry, I was kind of involved and since she was performing oral sex on him at the same time I thought everything was OK. My view was pretty limited so I couldn't see any non verbal cues. I told him next time, tell me. After that he had no problem saying what he wanted to do next so to speak, we all did and it worked great.

    Was the SM an experienced swinger? I try to "check on" the husband fairly frequently if he's just watching to see if he wants to join in or take over. Sometimes I'll ask for him to join in. If you can't talk to the people you're having sex with or in front of, I'm thinking you shouldn't be having sex with them.

    Not every SM you swing with is going to be very experienced and not many are going to have swung as a couple and every situation is different.

    It sounds like more of a lack of communication or a misunderstanding than anything else.

    I know I was talking to a male half of a couple one time I had played with and I told him he was lucky as his wife was so interested in pleasing him. I talked about how she frequently made sure that he was having fun and a couple of times whispered to me what he liked to see and we should do that etc. There was a moment of silence then "I really needed to hear that right now". Evidently he had a little bit of similar feelings to what the OP did but hadn't realized his wife had been doing what she thought was a turn on for him, what she was doing was trying to please him. It all got sorted out in the end because of verbal communication.

    Talk, talk, talk, and every now and then talk dirty.
    Why is it we can pleasure ourselves but not tickle ourselves?

  16. Back To Top | #16
    Swingers Board Addict Coupleerotic22's Avatar
    Status
    M. Male - MrsCoupleErotic's other half

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    Moondance - there are some similarities in your story and our first experience. Our first experience in the LS was a threesome with a single male. It was also my wife's first experience with any other man besides me.

    There was first time jitters but everything started off pretty well. After a while things were getting kind of awkward, I was not being excluded by my wife nor was he trying to "block" me out. Things were just not flowing as I had imagined, it was clear she wanted play with him. This was her first sexual experience besides me, and she was excited about it, so I stepped back and let her enjoy it. I took up a spot on the other bed and watched her have a great time. Admittedly, I was a bit dejected. After they were finished she came over to the bed I was on and made love to me. At this point, around 4 .m., we were both keyed up so we went across the street to a bar while our guest fell asleep. She explained to me that she was having a terrible time concentrating on two guys at once and thus having a hard time enjoying the experience. In fact she would prefer that we be with couples so we could each focus on our playmate. Again I was a bit dejected, but I dealt with it.

    Flash forward a few weeks to our next experience, this time a couple, same room. I was on one bed with my partner, she on the other with hers. Not long into things I totally got it. I was distracted by her on the next bed, I was enjoying seeing her have a great time and having problems concentrating on the lady I was with.

    Since then we have had other encounters. Even a solo for her, with the husband of one of our regular play couples, when I was unable to play due to surgery. During that same time period she had a date with the same single male as our first experience. Even though I could not play, I had 30+ staples still in me from surgery, I went along for her comfort level. I spent most of the time just enjoying watching her, but at one point I decided to go over and play with her breast while they played. At that point her entire outlook changed, she was way more interested in threesomes. We have both became far more relaxed and, as she says, capable of "multitasking".

    The point of this long story? Don't put too much stock into your first encounter. You and your wife have never been in that situation before, add alcohol to the mix and it becomes more complicated. Keep communicating and don't expect real life to play out like the fantasies in your head. As you get more experienced in the life style you will both become more comfortable and capable of understanding fulfilling each others needs, as long as you keep communicating.

  17. Back To Top | #17

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    Moondance, be careful what you wish for; you might just get it.

    This happened on Friends where Ross thinks it'll be the greatest when he can get his ex wife and her lesbian lover together for a 3some. When it actually happens, he's the odd man out [how surprising]. This is the same thing in reverse.

    You thought how great this would be, but psychologically you can not handle when the circumstances occur outside of your control.

    You'll need to find your place in swinging, quite possibly couples only because it doesn't seem that you're able to handle being present when another single male calls the shots. If you try to call the shots then your partner won't be as open and free as she was when she was a bit dominated with the other guy [many women like that ; I know mine does].

    You two need to go at the SLOWEST PERSONS PACE, AND THAT IS YOU.

  18. Back To Top | #18

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    There's lots to digest in your post. I'll start off by agreeing with you that the alcohol was a seriously bad idea. Stay away from more than a drink or two next time. It's just not necessary and will make things go bad.

    TNT is quite right. The fantasy and reality are not the same, and any ideas of how something should unfold often fail on first contact with a scenario. This doesn't mean your fantasies are wrong, and not meant to be lived. Rather, don't get your expectations too high that things will unfold exactly how you expect them too. We too, like TNT, lay out any rules we have (very limited now) and ask what rules the other single or couple have, and go from there. Part of the joy in swinging isn't just that you can live your fantasies, but that you can experience things you never imagined. Don't restrict your perception of how well an evening goes by whether or not your fantasies were fulfilled. If you do, you'll be very disappointed.

    If you feel you really need to be involved to enjoy it (which is perfectly fine!) then make sure you stay involved. For my wife early on in our swinging, she insisted I be involved in playing with her during an MFM. Now, she's fine if I'm just watching. But what you two decide as a couple is what should happen.

    With your partner falling asleep, don't read too much into it as I don't think there IS anything to read into it. As you said, she had multiple orgasms, multiple drinks, and had played for quite a while. It's totally understandable that she fell asleep. If it was just the two of you in that circumstance and she'd fallen asleep you wouldn't think anything of it. Your needs and wants were unmet. That can be a big disappointment. But, don't peg that on her only. The whole situation played out that way, and that's an everybody thing, not a just her thing.

    I don't know if the other guy was trying to muscle in or not. That's very hard for any of us to judge from our perspectives. That said, there's frequently times that my wife is having sex with another man that a given position makes it very difficult for me to be involved. Some of those positions are the positions my wife enjoys most in having sex. I'm not going to deny her those positions because I want to be involved. I like to be involved, but I want her to be happy.

    I have to disagree with some of the other esteemed posters in this thread in regards to single males. My wife has played with a number of single males and married males. The single males have not, on average, been any worse or better than the married ones. If you are carefully selective with single males, you will find good swing partners. A single male doesn't mean the guy is terrible. For us, one of the criteria in single males is that the guy gets it, he understands what swinging is, understands his role. This is one of the reasons we have avoided any single males under 30.


    I don't see MAJOR red flags here, but I do think the two of you need to spend some time discussing things before playing again. I don't see that any rules were broken, just expectations unmet. I also agree with rdy46227; this wasn't fatal. But, you need to learn and grow from this experience. You'll be ok.

  19. Back To Top | #19

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    The original poster here, have finally made it through the full set of posts. First let me say a collective thanks for all who took the time to respond! It is quite amazing to be able to tap into this tremendous wealth of knowledge.

    Back to the topic of hand, I do agree with the majority of posters who are saying that this is to be taken as a learning experience. I have also found that how I view this changes from hour to hour and day to day so I will provide an update a little further out so that the curious can know how our journey is progressing.

    In the meantime, I'll add a few thoughts triggered by general sentiments in the thread and also specific responses to a couple of comments.

    'curiousagain' asked the excellent question of if instead of falling asleep my partner had gone ahead and had sex with me would I have felt different about the whole event. I had actually asked myself the same question and the answer is a resounding "yes". As per my original post, despite feeling somewhat excluded I was very aroused by the encounter while it was happening but my perception of the event changed dramatically at that point when I realised that it was over. Understand that both of them ceased play _immediately_ following him reaching orgasm. It did seem as though my partner was willing and able to stay awake to ensure his satisfaction and then considered her job done. And, yes, I would go as far as to say I felt humiliated and cheated at that point. However, I have to agree with a number of posters who say not to read too much into this, especially given the alcohol involved. But I add that clarification as it did seem significant to me.

    A number of posters also pointed out that I am responsible for my own lack of involvement. This I entirely agree with and had I had any inkling that the outcome would have been my not getting to play I would certainly have re-engaged. My holding back was partly due to the fact that my partner was having a tremendous time and I was quite sure (incorrectly as it happens!) that she would return to me. A miscalculation on my part. As it happens I did not enter my partner or orgasm during the entire play session. Realise that I am not blaming my partner for this - I think all three of us played a part and I for one would not let this situation happen again. I can, however, see this is going to be a balancing act in the future. Clearly I want to allow my partner and any play-partner the freedom to explore but we also need to better agree on how we practically make this happen. lizandtom make the point that "..If you try to call the shots then your partner won't be as open and free as she was when she was a bit dominated with the other guy". I agree with this to a point which means we have some thinking and talking to do before we contemplate another encounter.

    lizandtom also commented that it "doesn't seem that you're able to handle when another single male calls the shots." I don't think I would disagree with that! In our initial flirting with other couples and singles prior to this encounter I have consistently found that I am comfortable (and enjoy!) her flirting with other men when they are respectful towards us both. When that respect is absent my feelings are entirely different. Initially this male did show that respect but I believe that his later actions would not be considered respectful, quite possibly the opposite. Interestingly enough, I would say that both of them seemed quite distant towards me in the minutes immediately following the encounter. At some level perhaps my partner although enjoying herself sexually felt some disappointment (disdain?) with me at that point in time. A fleeting sensation and not worth dwelling on, suffice to say that we don't own our own emotions. Back to lizandtom's comment, I agree that I don't want a single male (or anyone for that matter) "calling the shots" - I guess I'd hope that all involved are able to determine how things proceed, and in this instance I hesitated in asserting myself.

    One thing I should also add in my partners defense is that this was certainly not how she would have expected things to play out either. I am what most would consider an assertive (if not dominant) personality both socially, in business and in sports (I have a military background). I am quite sure that she expected I would take control of the situation which I did not. So in that regard perhaps we both found ourselves in uncharted territory there.

    On the topic of communication I have to say that neither of us even really thought of discussing our expectations with a single male partner! Now I think about it that seems quite bizarre - we kept thinking about how good we were at communicating with each other and forgot about the other person. Lesson learned and thanks to all those who pointed this out. Having said that (and this just occurred to me moments ago), while my partner was on a bathroom break I did mention to this fellow that my partner had an MFM fantasy, but nothing more specific.

    And as others have pointed out, perhaps our single male assumed my not objecting to his taking control of the situation in the bedroom to be a sign that I was happy with the way things were unfolding. Who knows perhaps as one poster pointed out he might have assumed that is what I was looking for. Yikes!

    In terms of how this is affecting me and my partner, I'd say we are both viewing it as a learning experience. She really did enjoy the evening (understatement!) and would love to try something else but is also willing to call a halt to all of this if there is any possibility it might lessen what we have. Oddly enough I'd say her love for me has grown significantly out of this which is not at all something I would have expected or can explain. One interesting side note of our initial discussions was her response when I asked her how she would have felt about this if the shoe had been on the other foot. Honest as always she admitted that she would never have let it happen, i.e. she would have intervened (which is what a number of you suggested I should have done). When I pushed her and said "but what if it happened nonetheless" she responded with her usual honesty and said "I'm not sure I'd be able to forgive you". Food for thought.

  20. Back To Top | #20

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondance View Post
    'curiousagain' asked the excellent question of if instead of falling asleep my partner had gone ahead and had sex with me would I have felt different about the whole event. I had actually asked myself the same question and the answer is a resounding "yes". As per my original post, despite feeling somewhat excluded I was very aroused by the encounter while it was happening but my perception of the event changed dramatically at that point when I realised that it was over. Understand that both of them ceased play _immediately_ following him reaching orgasm. It did seem as though my partner was willing and able to stay awake to ensure his satisfaction and then considered her job done.
    I still advise against reading too much into this. I think you're making of it more than should be interpreted. Yes, your wife's 'job' was done, in so far as her play partner was concerned. It's not at all surprising that she would start to shut down immediately after that. As you said, she'd had multiple orgasms. They'd had sex for quite a while. Plus alcohol.

    Let me give you another scenario, non-swing related. Years ago, I was driving home. I was dead tired, I'd had a very long day, had slept poorly the night before, and I was toast. I knew I was toast. I really shouldn't have been driving. I was struggling mightily to stay awake. I kept thinking, it's not far, I can make it, must...stay...awake. I did ok for most of the trip home. I didn't drift off, I didn't swerve off the road, and managed to stay at least somewhat focused. Though, if faced with an emergency situation, I would have failed miserably I'm sure. I shouldn't have been driving. But, I was keeping it together...until I turned into my neighborhood. Once in my neighborhood, I had several turns to make before getting to my house. I didn't make it. My brain relaxed, thinking "Ok, I'm just about there, I can start shutting down, there's no other cars around, I'm safe". Wrong. I woke up in someone's front yard. Thankfully, I didn't cause any damage to their property, mine, or myself.

    The moral here is I didn't WANT to fall asleep. I didn't PLAN on falling asleep. But, my job was basically done, and my brain shut down.



    Quote Originally Posted by gloryromper View Post
    I was quite sure (incorrectly as it happens!) that she would return to me. A miscalculation on my part.
    No, it wasn't a miscalculation on your part, and she didn't fail to meet your expectations...because you DIDN'T express them. The only unfairly unmet expectations are the ones that are expressed. Really think about this. Did your wife fail to do anything you asked her to do? I'm not seeing that she did. Instead, she did everything you asked of her, and she had a great, great time. You didn't. But is that her fault?


    Quote Originally Posted by gloryromper View Post
    Realise that I am not blaming my partner for this
    I'm not so sure this is the case. You're looking for answers to this, and you've been pegging her with questions to find the answers. I think the answers are largely within you.

    Quote Originally Posted by gloryromper View Post
    we have some thinking and talking to do before we contemplate another encounter.
    Yes, you do. But, the wrong reaction is to layer in all sorts of rules, and heavy expectations on exactly how things will play out. If you do that, some or maybe even many people will see you as a drama bomb waiting to go off.


    Quote Originally Posted by gloryromper View Post
    I am comfortable (and enjoy!) her flirting with other men when they are respectful towards us both. When that respect is absent my feelings are entirely different.
    Nothing wrong with that. I expect men to treat my wife with utmost respect both for her and what is potentially being offered to them. It's no light thing to grant permission for another man to have sex with your wife. If they are not respectful, there's no green light from me. Not that my wife is my possession, to give her sexual favors away as I please, but I do have the privilege of having a say.

    Quote Originally Posted by gloryromper View Post
    Initially this male did show that respect but I believe that his later actions would not be considered respectful, quite possibly the opposite.
    But are you certain of that? Did he do anything you told him NOT to do? Maybe he moved her into positions that appeared to monopolize her, but maybe he was just having some fun and wanted to try other positions. When other men are having sex with my wife, sometimes they move into positions that make it very difficult for me to be involved. That's not a problem; it's just a different position. The same scenario can be viewed very differently. I've never taken anything negative from it. You did. That's not to say I'm right, you're wrong, but that your perspective is different and that there are other ways of seeing that are worth considering here, just to help you find your own answers. Does that make sense?


    Quote Originally Posted by gloryromper View Post
    At some level perhaps my partner although enjoying herself sexually felt some disappointment (disdain?) with me at that point in time. A fleeting sensation and not worth dwelling on, suffice to say that we don't own our own emotions.
    Is this just your impression or has she said this post facto? Your impression could be utterly false.

    When my wife is having sex with another man, she can become completely absorbed in the experience, totally focused on the moment. It can be difficult for me to get her attention then. That's ok to me. It means she's really enjoying the sex and wants to focus on it. It doesn't mean she loves me any less, or is willfully, harmfully ignoring me.

    Quote Originally Posted by gloryromper View Post
    So in that regard perhaps we both found ourselves in uncharted territory there.
    I think you found yourself in utterly uncharted territory. The reality didn't match the fantasy. Your unexpressed expectations were not met. You were let down sexually and emotionally. This could have been quite unnerving to a lot of people, far more so than it has to you. But, I think you're trying to discern patterns in the tea leaves that don't exist. Take a deep breath, relax, take a step back. Assess. Does your wife love you any less? Do you love her any less? Go from basics, move forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by gloryromper View Post
    Who knows perhaps as one poster pointed out he might have assumed that is what I was looking for. Yikes!
    Ok, so maybe he assumed, you definitely assumed, your wife maybe assumed, and the house of cards came crashing down.

    Quote Originally Posted by gloryromper View Post
    Oddly enough I'd say her love for me has grown significantly out of this which is not at all something I would have expected or can explain.
    It defies logic, but emotions aren't logic. What she's experiencing is quite common. For days after an MFM experience, my wife...who is very loving, cuddly and physical to begin with...will be amplified in those ways. She's incredibly thankful that I enjoy her having sex with other men, and is in love with the life she has, as well as the man she married. She knows few women have it so lucky.

    Quote Originally Posted by gloryromper View Post
    "but what if it happened nonetheless" she responded with her usual honesty and said "I'm not sure I'd be able to forgive you". Food for thought.
    If ever you engage in an FMF or an MFMF, you'd better be crystal clear with each other and your partners, or you're in for a world of trouble.

  21. Back To Top | #21

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    Hi Moondance,

    I think your experience is not totally uncommon. I think as has already been stated you should just chalk this one up as a learning experience, I am sure your partner didn’t mean any harm in her actions. As for her falling to sleep, it was probably the booze. Another thing to consider is, what is your fantasy may have not been her fantasy; she could have wanted a dominant screw with the new guy. If it was her fantasy, it was just her fantasy and not meant to hurt. The idea of talking through what you guys want out of an experience is good to get you both on the same wave length.

    I speak with some experience, as when we were starting out we had a MFM and Lady Libertine in my view at the time got carried away with the single guy (or so I thought at the time). When I spoke to her about it she said she was sorry if she upset me, but what did I expect to see when two people are screwing (she had a good point). Now we talk about things we want to do at parties, we leave each other at parties to mingle and go explore and have generally become more relaxed. When I see Lady Libertine going at it with another guy now I think ‘god what a lucky guy I am’.

    I guess what I am trying to say is when you first experience sharing somebody you love you, what you see will be distorted by your feelings for them, this will pass as you go on in the lifestyle. However I do think the booze should be left out until you both are more comfortable.
    Mr L

  22. Back To Top | #22

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    Been there done this. In fact during one threesome I got up and went down to my office to check my email and do some work. I was gone a good 20 minutes and she had no clue

    She really got intensely into sex with this guy to the point she wasn't conscious of anything around her.

    I had to realize that it didn't mean anything and once I got into sitting back and watching it was the hottest porn show I've ever seen.

    And seriously as anybody that actually done MFM threesomes can tell you the physical contortions needed frequently don't work for everybody or simply can't be done. ( don't believe all those porno films they're staged) Thus it's really hard to have a true threesome where everybody is involved at once.

    We evolved two mechanisms to cope. One she started reaching out and taking my hand if she felt she had been too long without contact or I did and two we all learned a new sentence.

    "It's your turn"

  23. Back To Top | #23

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    It also brings up the opportunity to man the camera and get those great angles you cant get with a tripod.
    Just because we have to grow old does NOT mean we have to grow up!

  24. Back To Top | #24

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    Hey - as the male half I can relate - not wanting to be a bad host vs too aggressive so the thing is to find a balance.

    Like TNT said if you want to be involved- involve yourself- i had to learn this - its ok to say hey lets change things up and switch positions. Your love will def not mind u being more involved!

    experiment and B involved

    M&D

  25. Back To Top | #25
    Swingers Board Addict Willing29's Avatar
    Status
    very happily Married couple

    Default Re: MFM threesome that became a twosome: advice required

    Quote Originally Posted by Onehotmilf View Post
    if you want to be involved- involve yourself- i had to learn this - its ok to say hey lets change things up and switch positions. Your love will def not mind u being more involved!
    M&D
    So true, you need to be responsible for it as well. If you want it get right in there, everyone will understand.
    "We are the people our parents warned us about"

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