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  1. Back To Top | #1

    Default Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    Some of you know we have been fighting in court for the last 2 1/2 years. Seems Clark county Nevada wanted to get rid of us after 28 years. This is our 6th round with them in 28 years and we beat them again.

    The news article and copy of the judges order is here:

    Judge Says Sex Club Ordinance is Unconstitutional

    Lots of research, good attorneys and lots of money spent and we are still open.
    New Temptations You are the Party

  2. Back To Top | #2
    Better than Ice Cream two4youinswva's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    Congratulations Lee!
    It's refreshing to see a club win one, and, after all the stories in Swingers in the News about how to do it wrong, it's nice to know there's a group out there that does it right, for almost 30 years no less!

    Enjoy the victory.
    Being in love is the best feeling in the world.
    Unless your balls itch.
    Then, scratching your balls is the best feeling in the world.

  3. Back To Top | #3
    Swingers Board Guide SW_PA_Couple's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)



    Hurray!

    I wondered what had recently been keeping you away from us. Seems like you have been busy. It is very satisfying to read this.

    ~Michael
    If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear, is the man still wrong?

  4. Back To Top | #4
    Swingers Board Guide SW_PA_Couple's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    Winning attorney Al Marquis says the broad language of the law could mean even a hotel could be considered a sex club simply because people went inside looking for a good time
    This part in particular is classic.

  5. Back To Top | #5

    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by VegasLee View Post
    Some of you know we have been fighting in court for the last 2 1/2 years. Seems Clark county Nevada wanted to get rid of us after 28 years. This is our 6th round with them in 28 years and we beat them again.

    The news article and copy of the judges order is here:
    Congratulations! This is great news for freedom, and, sexual freedom in particular in our country.
    Enjoysexcpl

  6. Back To Top | #6

    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    Right On !!!


    fun4ds

  7. Back To Top | #7

    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by VegasLee View Post
    Some of you know we have been fighting in court for the last 2 1/2 years. Seems Clark county Nevada wanted to get rid of us after 28 years. This is our 6th round with them in 28 years and we beat them again.
    6th round? At what point does this become malicious prosecution?

    The law is a shield, not a sword.

    I'm not a lawyer, but I wonder if there's grounds for some sort of case against the county, grouping all clubs together against them.


    Quote Originally Posted by VegasLee View Post
    Lots of research, good attorneys and lots of money spent and we are still open.
    Thank you for fighting it. So many times, clubs just fold rather than fight. I'm not saying they're chicken. Far from it. It's just so damn expensive to fight. A local club we attend fought for more than seven years for their existence, and eventually won over the definition of 'private club'. Most other clubs in Indianapolis just folded when this all started.

    What really, really irks me is nowadays the police and often enough other government officials arrest people and/or file lawsuits against them not in the hopes of winning a conviction, but in the hopes that the sheer cost of their targets defending themselves will yield a victory.

    Yesterday, I read of a person who is facing 16 years in prison because he video recorded an interaction with a police officer in a public place. The DAs file charges of violating wire tapping, in that you can not record a person's voice without their knowledge and consent. It's highly likely that this person will not be convicted. But, the sheer cost of defending himself alone will be extreme. It's a sentence without a trial, by itself.

    Justice is served in this country to the people who can afford it. Anyone else, just be grateful you make it through life without being charged with anything. So far, so good for me (though I was put in handcuffs once; mistaken identity).

    Lee, thank you for fighting this. How much of an effect will the cost of fighting this have on your membership/attendance costs?

  8. Back To Top | #8

    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by bbarnsworth View Post
    Lee, thank you for fighting this. How much of an effect will the cost of fighting this have on your membership/attendance costs?
    Thank you all for your comments. Glad to see some behind us here.

    In 28 years we have never changed the suggested donation to come to the Red Rooster. The donation today is the same as it was opening night. The house started out at 800 sq. feet and is not 13,000 sq feet. Always built as the money was saved up. No debt. We will not change the donation amounts because of this either. It never was about the money, it was about the right to invite people to Mike and Chris's home and this Lifestyle.

    This round cost enough that we could have bought two new homes here in Vegas with that money.

    There is talk about suing Clark County for the money this time. We talked about it in the past when we got into fights with them but never did. We did not want to make more waves. This time "might" be different though. We are discussing it and trying to decide what to do.

    Honestly, right now we all just want a rest from it though. I don't know if it is age or what but this battle took a lot out of all of us that where involved.

    Besides winning I think the best part was my 16 year old daughter was sitting with me when we got the verdict. She looked over and saw her father put his head down on the table and cried and she came over and hugged me for a good 15 minutes. That was worth more then all of this to me. For the first time it all really got to me now that it was over.

    We got the verdict late Tuesday and many have said they have see a huge change in me. I guess it was wearing on me more then I thought.

    I am glad it is over and now it is time to get back to doing what we have done for so many years. Keeping the place open for all to enjoy.

    Thanks again for all the support guys......
    New Temptations You are the Party

  9. Back To Top | #9
    Swingers Board Addict Coupleerotic22's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    I am just curious. With Vegas being sin city, and prostitution being legal (am I right on that?) the multiple prosecutions would not seem to be about morals. What is the driving force behind it?

    Do they just want tax you guys more and are irritated they can't? Or is there just more muscle behind the prostitution industry to make public officials look for easier targets? Or is there some mangled thought process that makes them think that prostitution is okay morally but swinging isn't?

  10. Back To Top | #10

    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    Prostitution is NOT legal in Las Vegas or Reno. It is only legal in small counties in Nevada. The forces behind the legal prostitution don't care anything about us.

    You have to remember that Las Vegas was founded by the Mormons and most of our elected officials are Mormons.

    Feb. of 2008 a couple other "house parties" really messed up and caught some press here in town. After that some officials felt the need to try to take down what is the most well known and largest Swingers party in Vegas. They felt that would scare the rest away.

    It did not work. Over the years we have been the only ones that ever fought back and we did again. As we have five times in the past, we won again.

    We are hoping this is over now since the county spent A LOT of money coming after us and they are pretty much broke. They have been cutting services back here in Vegas because they are billions in the hole.

    I hope they use good sense and don't take another run at us. It was 12 years since the last time we tangled with them.
    New Temptations You are the Party

  11. Back To Top | #11

    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by VegasLee View Post
    We are hoping this is over now since the county spent A LOT of money coming after us and they are pretty much broke. They have been cutting services back here in Vegas because they are billions in the hole.

    I hope they use good sense and don't take another run at us. It was 12 years since the last time we tangled with them.
    Replying to this and and above post by you, about considering whether or not to file suit against them.

    I think your hope that they don't come after you again is only that; hope. They've done this an average of once every five years. They will try again.

    If an appropriate lawyer feels you have a strong suit to sue them for damages, thanks to the expense of defending yourself against this prosecution, I'd go for it. Then, assuming you win, put the money away for the purpose of funding your next defense.

    They lost this time because the law was vague. All it takes is a rewrite of the law and the willingness (funds be damned) to go after you again. Being the biggest, longest running party of this type in Vegas, you are THE target. They WILL come after you again. It's just a matter of when.

    Six times over the last near 30 years is just sick. It's got to stop. One way to help it stop is that counter-suing them teaches them that you will fight back. I know you're spent right now. You don't have to file it tomorrow. But, I would file it. Also, given that the county is broke, they'd probably be willing to settle out of court for an 'undisclosed sum', admitting no wrongdoing, rather than go through the expense of the trial process. It would be enough to achieve the ends I've noted; teaching them you fight back and getting money stockpiled for your next defense.

  12. Back To Top | #12

    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by bbarnsworth View Post
    You don't have to file it tomorrow. But, I would file it. Also, given that the county is broke, they'd probably be willing to settle out of court for an 'undisclosed sum', admitting no wrongdoing, rather than go through the expense of the trial process. It would be enough to achieve the ends I've noted; teaching them you fight back and getting money stockpiled for your next defense.
    Welp, are you sure posting your pre-meditated intentions in a public forum is for the good ? I mean he said their morman's, from what I hear, they usually know more about you than the..... Excuse me, while I put my aluminum foil hat on....so they cant read my mind

  13. Back To Top | #13
    Being good is overrated sweet_tna's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    CONGRATS on the victory, Lee!! It's nice to see the good guys win one once in awhile.

    =)
    I'd rather go to hell for doing something I enjoyed than heaven wondering what it's like.

  14. Back To Top | #14

    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    Thank you Vegas Lee!

    From a mostly closeted swinger who doesn't have the inclination to be open... really, thank you. If there is a fund or somewhere to send donations, would you please PM me?
    Through every dead and living thing, Time runs, like a fuse. -- Jackson Browne

  15. Back To Top | #15

    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    Lee,
    Well done. I'm sure your lawyers did a great job and you want to save the expense of yet suing the county. I'm not versed in the laws of Nevada but some states have "loser pays" statutes that allow the winner in a civil suit, such as yours, the right to recover attorney's fees.

  16. Back To Top | #16

    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    I also want to say GREAT. We have been many times, and love it. Thanks for not giving up, and giving us a fun place to go.

  17. Back To Top | #17

    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    Congrats Lee!!

    You'd think they would have learned by now, especially after 5 trials already. Good for you guys!
    Dave & Holly

  18. Back To Top | #18
    Swingers Board Addict Coupleerotic22's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by VegasLee View Post
    Prostitution is NOT legal in Las Vegas or Reno. It is only legal in small counties in Nevada. The forces behind the legal prostitution don't care anything about us.

    You have to remember that Las Vegas was founded by the Mormons and most of our elected officials are Mormons.
    I was not aware of the Mormons founded Las Vegas, being know as Sin City iy is a bit ironic, and I had heard prostitution was legal in Nevada, so I assumed Las Vegas as well.

    As for forces behind prostitution, I did not mean to imply they have anything to do with you guys and swinging. I just imagine they have a pretty strong lobby, and friends, that politicians would avoid tangling with. So rather than go after prostitution, they chose to attack swinging, a much less politically organized group. Just easier pickings in the mind of do gooders I would think.

    In any case, thanks for putting up the good fight, it helps swingers everywhere. Hopefully the sting of the loss will chill their desire to bring legal action for a while at least.

  19. Back To Top | #19
    rdy46227
    Guest rdy46227's Avatar

    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    This may be a city vs county thing, but I heard that the county wants to open a liquor store next to baggage claim at the airport.

    That's a bit inconsistent with the Mormon no booze no sex stance...

  20. Back To Top | #20

    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    I will try to shed light on a couple of things here.

    When it comes to legal prostitution in Nevada. It is only legal in a couple of small counties. Not in any of the major tourist areas. Then only in licensed houses that pay BIG MONEY for those licenses. Funny part is they are currently not taxed in Nevada as most businesses here are not. They offered to be taxed to help out the state since Nevada is basically broke right now. The politicians in this state ran from that idea so fast it was not even funny. They want nothing to do with making the prostitution business more "legit' then it already is at this point. Many of the new politicians want to stop legal prostitution but so far they have not been able to do it.

    The city of Las Vegas is a very small area. Most of the "Strip" is not in the city, it is county as is the airport. Yes, they just approved to let a liquor store open at baggage claim area knowing it will bring in millions in tax dollars.

    Honestly, none of this would have happened if a couple rouge clubs that opened in houses here in Vegas in 2007/2008 had not caused a lot of problems. One of them opened very publicly right next door to one of the biggest Mormon Temples in the country here in Vegas. They did some really stupid things that caught the attention of the T.V. stations and it was down here from there. When those other clubs got brought into court, which they did not defend and closed right away since they had no money they both felt the need to keep bringing up OUR NAME in court and to the press. The county had no choice but to take another run at us because of the things that where done by others. In both cases it was the same couple, they did not have any money, the conned others into putting up all the money. The husband ended up in prison in Texas for other charges from Texas when it was all said and done. They turned in over 30 complaints about US in 15 day when they went down.

    In Nevada you have to sue to get your defense money back. It is very costly and time consuming. No decisions have been made at this time. We are all taking a break and things will be decided in the future. We have a year to file if we decide to do that.

    The county now has three choices. They can rewrite the law. They can appeal the verdict from the judge or they can just leave us alone. We are hoping for the third one but only time will tell.

    If any of you legal types are really board you can read the judges verdict HERE

    Thank you all for your well wishes. For now this is over.
    New Temptations You are the Party

  21. Back To Top | #21

    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by VegasLee View Post
    Thank you all for your comments. Glad to see some behind us here.

    In 28 years we have never changed the suggested donation to come to the Red Rooster. The donation today is the same as it was opening night. The house started out at 800 sq. feet and is not 13,000 sq feet. Always built as the money was saved up. No debt. We will not change the donation amounts because of this either. It never was about the money, it was about the right to invite people to Mike and Chris's home and this Lifestyle.

    This round cost enough that we could have bought two new homes here in Vegas with that money.

    There is talk about suing Clark County for the money this time. We talked about it in the past when we got into fights with them but never did. We did not want to make more waves. This time "might" be different though. We are discussing it and trying to decide what to do.

    Honestly, right now we all just want a rest from it though. I don't know if it is age or what but this battle took a lot out of all of us that where involved.

    Besides winning I think the best part was my 16 year old daughter was sitting with me when we got the verdict. She looked over and saw her father put his head down on the table and cried and she came over and hugged me for a good 15 minutes. That was worth more then all of this to me. For the first time it all really got to me now that it was over.

    We got the verdict late Tuesday and many have said they have see a huge change in me. I guess it was wearing on me more then I thought.

    I am glad it is over and now it is time to get back to doing what we have done for so many years. Keeping the place open for all to enjoy.

    Thanks again for all the support guys......
    Screw'em, from the article it sounds like they may just try to rewrite the law and try it again. In the current economy showing the government wasting tax payer money is rather effective.

    This sort of government action drives me nuts, its abusing the powers they are given. It transcends party and becomes personal vindictiveness. Just recently a anti-porn case was dismissed when the star 'witness' couldn't remember the movie he supposedly saw, and he stated the DA asked him to re-watch it at the JUDGES request. The judge denied it, but based on some of his earlier rulings in the case which basically changed the law, I wouldn't be surprised. They even went out of their way to order it in a specific way to break some local laws.

    They WILL get you eventually, one asshole judge is all it takes.

  22. Back To Top | #22

    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chicup View Post
    They WILL get you eventually, one asshole judge is all it takes.
    I'm with Chicup here. I hate to be a downer, but if all it really took was one extremely vociferous couple to get a lawsuit going against you, they'll be back. Next time, they'll be packing a more tightly written law too. Hoping they will leave you alone is extremely wishful thinking.

  23. Back To Top | #23

    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    Chicup,

    Your probably right. I was told that the first time they came after us, and each time after that. They will get us some day. That is how these things work.

    They waited 12 years this time before trying again, last time was in 1996.

    The great thing about the system in this county is they only can come after me when complaints are filed by the public. The bad thing is they accept the complaints on line and anonymously. The only reason we know who did it is because they do record the IP address and I have friends in the Tech department at the county. It took over 30 complaints in 15 days to get it and all the other attention the "bad" parties where getting at the time.

    Yes, someday they will try again. They can try again now if they want. We don't have our head in the sand, we know this is not over. They can appeal this ruling, they can rewrite their law and try again. Either way it will be two+ years down the road before we have to fight them again. Works for me.

    The great thing about the way they did it this time is I was not arrested. In the past they always started it out that way just to make it look good in the press.

    On the up side, we are seeing that the children of our attorneys are receiving funding for the college education.

    We were already prepared to appeal to the state and federal levels if we had lost this round. You take it to the top and accept the final answer, that is all you can do in this country.

    When the next time comes, we will take care of it then and live with what ever the out come is.
    New Temptations You are the Party

  24. Back To Top | #24

    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    Good luck, and I mean that as a advocate for personal freedom, not a swinger. This sort of government action pissed me off long before I was involved in the lifestyle.

  25. Back To Top | #25

    Default Re: Vegas Red Rooster wins in court! (again)

    Just learned of this CONGRATs.

    As you know we lost in Court with a similar law passed in 1998 in Phoenix and the biggest club owner closed rather than face prison time.

    Too bad its too late for Phoenix clubs, I was on the committee with Club C that lost in Court I spoke at public hearings and on talk radio both against the 1998 outlawing swing clubs and the new restrictions on strip clubs pushed by the Christian group in Scottsdale that has helped zillions of cities pass similar restrictions with their phony secondary effects studies etc. They may have helped write the Nevada law I am not sure.

    In Phoenix the argument was "too protect neighborhoods and children" I love the TV station that took a camera and scanned all around Club C's location searching for any "neighborhoods or children" and found none. Was a very industrial area by railroad tracks etc.
    Dave in Phoenix
    Liberated Christians
    Promoting Intimacy & Positive Sexuality
    www.libchrist.com
    www.lovetouch.info

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