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  1. Back To Top | #1

    Default Hubby's heart is breaking, what do I do now?

    I see posts from men about how they have hurt their wives by their interest in swinging, but I would love to hear from ladies who have been there.

    For the past couple of months, my husband and I have been actively talking about trying swinging, at my urging. The fantasizing has resulted in a couple of months of daily sex, and great fun.

    This morning, after a sunrise bop and a couple of naps, he got ready for work--he always works on Saturdays. As is my frequent custom, I came upstairs as he was dressing and playfully asked if he would like a complimentary 20-second blowjob. He wasn't up for it, and I certainly didn't take it personally. We talked about it a bit, and I assured him I didn't mind, not one bit. He was all downtrodden-like, and said, "I'm sore, I just put talc on it..."

    As he was leaving, he was still in downtrodden mode, and I said, "It's bigger than that, isn't it?" And at first he said, "I don't want to get into it now." Then, as he went out the door, he said, "I have never been able to satisfy you sexually, not ever. If I had, you wouldn't be so interested in having sex outside our marriage. I will do it if that's what it takes, though."

    Wow! Obviously I need to drop this topic, but I also need to know what to say to him to heal what is a seriously big wound.

  2. Back To Top | #2

    Default Re: Hubby's heart is breaking, what do I do now?

    I'm one of those men on the other side of the fence. I've tried to convince my wife I love her madly and she excites me sexually. But it comes down to a self-esteem issue, for both my wife and your hubby. You need to address this aspect more than anything else. Have you both been reading the posts here on the forum? If he has too, I can't see how he doesn't realize that a spouse wishing to swing doesn't imply dissatisfaction with their significant other. The fact he's been sexually-charged by it all is a good indicator. You just need to talk it out more.

    The truth is, a spouse can bring everything into the sexual relationship, except variety. And variety is a big part of swinging, and no spouse can be expected to provide that, so it is not a shortcoming in any way.....

    Good luck....

  3. Back To Top | #3

    Default Re: Hubby's heart is breaking, what do I do now?

    OP, I am very sorry to hear about what is going on with your husband and his hurt feelings. I am very glad in truth to hear that he told you this BEFORE you played with another couple, because I think that would have been devastating in his eyes. Well, I can tell you that he is not alone in his thinking. One of my best friends cannot fathom how Jay and I are able to swing, because to her sex is such an emotional and intimate thing..she does not have the ability to have sex with someone she is not in love with. Emotion and sex are intertwined in her eyes. It appears that your husband thinks along these same lines, and this is FINE, its just who he is. I think number one all talk of swinging has to cease immediately. Now, there is soft swing! Alot of couples only are in this for the fantasy of it. They are voyeur only. They love being in the atmosphere and will make love to each other around other couples but never engage in switching partners....at some point this may be a good solution. You get the fantasy of it and he does not worry about switching partners. However, at this time his hurt feelings are what is most important here. I would sit down with him immediately and open your heart. Make him feel assured that he is the love of your life and that this is not about him not satisfying you sexually.
    Best of luck to you. Shelly
    Merry Christmas and a Ho Ho Ho
    Shelly

  4. Back To Top | #4

    Default Re: Hubby's heart is breaking, what do I do now?

    Nothing is more fragile on men than their ego. Few men are 'ego free' or have a warped one where they seem to enjoy having their ego beaten and bruised.

    By bringing up swinging yourself you gave him a broadside to the ego. If you have the higher sex drive in the relationship and then bring up swinging, the natural reaction will be saddly, I'm not good enough/able enough for her.

    Worse, and this is just a theory of mine based on some vanilla friends I know, this seems to lower the sex drive/desire of the men in such situations even more.

    So basically he is viewing swinging in a typical vanilla fashion, its not about the couple but the individual wanting more.

    I think this is why most couples seem to be male 'led' in swinging. If the guy brings it up, women seem to have far less ego problems, and since he brought it up, his ego can remain in tact, even when you with another man. I also think that this is why in couples where the females brings it up they focus so much on the FMF and FF activities to an extent. Part of this may be the married lesbians, but I think some of it is to keep husbands ego intact. I have a hard time thinking there are so many bisexual women out there who want no other man besides their husband yet seem to want different females. I think its far more of a 'I dont' want to hurt my husbands ego by saying I wouldn't mind a new penis so I'll go from this route'.

    I have to wonder if it was Mrs. Chicup instead of me who brought up swinging, what my reaction would have been. To much time has past now for me to answer that, but I'm sure we would have proceeded differently.

    Well my theories aside, how to handle your situation.....

    Without knowing your husband I'll give you my generic game plan, this may be the key or it may be a disaster based on his personality, you be the judge there.

    Obviously kill the idea of looking for couples right now, but you know that one already.

    Now I'd be direct when he gets home, tell him what he said really bothered you and thats not what this has been about. Let him know its not about better sex or enough sex but different sex. That you want to try things you never had the guts to do, WITH him, before you are both too old to enjoy it. Its about exploring an aspect of life TOGETHER (note my subtle all caps). I'd hate to perpetuate the cliche but maybe bring up another woman rather than a couple to start, if for no other reason to get him thinking about what he 'gets out' of this and its not all about what you want.

    With a majority of married couples cheating on their spouses at least once in their marriages, this desire for extra partners is quite natural, and depending on how he thinks you may want to even work that in, in a non-threatening manner.

    After that, drop it totally. I don't know if you guys ever watch pornography, but continue doing that, maybe pick out some which involve 3 somes etc, and let him come to grips with what he wants (a little extra stimulation doesn't hurt, it was a porn that finally pushed Mrs. Chicup from the 'well maybe' to the 'lets try it' camp)

  5. Back To Top | #5
    nothin special socolais's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hubby's heart is breaking, what do I do now?

    I know I'm not qualified by gender or experience to respond to the directness of your question, but I can tell you some things I did that I think helped my wife understand.

    I located an experienced swinger couple that was somewhat local and I could tell by their comments on this forum that we could both respect their opinions because of the general wisdom of their words. We refered to them as our mentors and while we've never played with them, they've contributed more to our (her) acceptance of swinging than they probably realise. I think their biggest contribution was their proximity to normalcy and their casual comfortable acceptance of swinging as a wholesome activity.

    It takes time for people to reject their old thoughts and let the new way of doing things become natural. You can recognise when he needs gentle guidance and when he needs to be left alone to filter his thoughts. You've been thinking about this for a while and you have a clear head-start, help him catch-up and then yall can walk down the path of discovery hand-in-hand. Bedroom role-playing and fantasy discussions help us both communicate our needs and vulnerabilities to each other.

    She became an active part of the decision making process as it related to progress toward swinging activities. I opened the discussion about what to do on a particular weekend for example, and let it be known that I wanted some excitement for both of us. It wasn't too difficult to negotiate a plan where both of us could be happy, and we intentionally kept options open for those unexpected happy moments that can arrise if we let them. This means she also had control over the pace and she let me know when I suggested activities that she wasn't yet comfortable with.

    I shared my energy with her, because I WANTED TO!!! This whole swinging thing is about sharing. The energy felt good to me and my enthusiasm helped her by letting her feel its goodness with me and then later, she wanted to get some energy for herself directly. This enthusiasm is contaigous.

    I hope you find whatever you need to make both of yall happy, because happiness is where its at!!!
    I like her because she smiles at me and means it

  6. Back To Top | #6

    Default Re: Hubby's heart is breaking, what do I do now?

    Thanks to all for your insights. I am still waiting to hear from ladies who were initiators...


  7. Back To Top | #7

    Default Re: Hubby's heart is breaking, what do I do now?

    Quote Originally Posted by RidesLikeNew
    Thanks to all for your insights. I am still waiting to hear from ladies who were initiators...
    I was the initiator, but my spouse was merely surprised by my suggestion, not hurt. He gets it that it's not a matter of me not being satisfied by him, but that it's just different, and different/variety is enjoyable, too. There isn't less for him just because I/we may be with others. Perhaps that is a healthy ego or strong self-esteem on his part.

    Good for you for directly addressing what you perceived was a problem. Good for him for admitting he was having issues. And good for both of you if you can sit down and discuss what he said to you in greater detail and you can tell him what you are feeling about his comments. Keeping the communication open and going is the best thing going for the moment.

    Perhaps in time, after he's thought about it and after a lot of talking it out, he'll be open to pursuing it again. Maybe not. But I wish you the best of luck in discussing the matter, no matter the end result.
    I'll give up my bad habits as soon as equally satisfying good habits become available. A. Brilliant

  8. Back To Top | #8

    Default Re: Hubby's heart is breaking, what do I do now?

    Susan here-- In my case I was having group sex before marriage. After marriage I had given it up, though my husband always knew about my group play . After a month of marriage he asked if I missed it. I explained, 'No, but if you ever want to try it, I'll arrange it." He did and he loved it.

    Now, first off Ed never was concerned about his ability to make me happy sexually. In fact, it's quite easy to make me happy in bed. I cum like a freight train. So, the fact that your husband doubts himself is something that must be overcome or this really is not going to work.

    Our group Play has never been about getting something more than we have between ourselves. It's about experiencing a different aspect of human sexuality. I've had some really incredible sex in a group scene. The type of sex that peels the paint of the walls and has the neighbors needing a cigarette and the Play wasn't always with Ed. But it's not better sex, it's just different sex and Ed always knows the difference. And, frankly, Ed has had some pretty incredible experiences too. I know that, more than once, he came harder with another woman than he currently does with me. I'm not threatened by that, I celebrate that we both can have that type of experience and not be threatened by it at all. Again, it's not better than what we have together, just different and very much in that moment.

  9. Back To Top | #9

    Default Re: Hubby's heart is breaking, what do I do now?

    On the flip side, my wife made it clear that she was only interested in swinging because she couldn't get what she needed from me. I decided to go along with her wishes, because I didn't want the issue to cause our family to split up.
    I would expect the same from her, if I had needs she couldn't provide.
    In my opinion, "pouting" is for children.

  10. Back To Top | #10

    Default Re: Hubby's heart is breaking, what do I do now?

    By all means, let him know it is not a deficiency in his actions, or a desire by you to "step out", but rather a desire to try new things so you can both achieve new heights.
    Your desire is to try new things WITH him, in order to expand all your horizons.
    Maybe bringing him her would help?
    Either way, best wishes to both of you...

  11. Back To Top | #11

    Default Re: Hubby's heart is breaking, what do I do now?

    Welcome to the board, RidesLike!

    Quote Originally Posted by RidesLikeNew
    Then, as he went out the door, he said, "I have never been able to satisfy you sexually, not ever. If I had, you wouldn't be so interested in having sex outside our marriage. I will do it if that's what it takes, though."

    Wow! Obviously I need to drop this topic, but I also need to know what to say to him to heal what is a seriously big wound.
    I can't tell you what to say specifically because I don't know the man. I gather that he loves you very much if he has held this in for this long. He just wants to make you happy and while that is a good thing, in Vanilla-World, it can be very dangerous. This kamikaze-style display of devotion is typical of the vanilla world in which we all have to live. It's not only acceptable but actually expected that you would martyr yourself physically and emotionally for your spouse, because this somehow "proves" that you love one another. I'm certainly not suggesting that it should be every man/woman for him/herself. I just think that it's a shame that we should all be expected to hold ourselves cheap to prove love. It makes no sense. And further, other people are shocked and dismayed at the notion that I don't WANT Mr. intuition to prove his love for me through self-sacrifice. You'd swear I was turning down a brick of solid gold or something. Oh, no it's something far lovelier: his penis on a silver platter, for my exclusive use and enjoyment and none other. And he's supposed to want my severed pussy on a platter, too. The thing is, I don't want him to castrate himself like that for my sake! I don't NEED him to, so nothing at all would be proved by it. No, if he wants to show me how much he loves me, then let him take hold of life and live each day like it was his last. I want nothing more for- or from - this wonderful human being I've chosen to give my life to.

    Perhaps you could start by asking your husband to define "enough". What does he mean that he's never been "enough"? Does he please you? Do you achieve orgasm with him? Do you desire him? Why must you desire him more than any other man? Why must you never feel sexual desire for other men? What does that say about your love for him, if anything?

    Is sex all he really feels he has to offer you? Is that the only thing he feels is holding you to him? The only thing that is different between the "vanilla" person and the swinger is that the swinger has simply decided that they no longer wish to use sex as the yardstick by which they measure their marriages/relationships. When it is accepted that ANYONE can provide our partner with good sex, we are then forced to examine why we really want to be together. Like so many people say in argument against swinging, Why be married at all? Indeed. What an excellent question. So instead of fearing the questions and running from them, why not face them head on. It ain't for sissies so be forewarned. Once the big questions are asked, you can't un-ask them. Usually, we already know the answers, and the hard part is acknowledging them to ourselves and one another. We don't always like the answers we get, but they're the truth, and they're real. Mr. intuition and I wasted literally years of our lives pretending problems between us didn't exist. And in this way we subsisted for 9 years. We weren't really living or loving; we were just going through the motions. So when we finally tore the machine apart and put it back together in a way that made sense, it became a thing of beauty in its sleek simplicity. Plus we had a whole bucket of spare parts left over that we realized were doing nothing but weighing us down in redundancy.

    I guess just start out asking yourselves and each other, "Why?" Why is a great question because, by its nature, it separates the useless from the useful, accrediting value where it is due and labeling trash as it should be labelled. I hope this has been of some help.

    Again, welcome!
    Fear is a symptom of ignorance. Knowledge is the cure.

  12. Back To Top | #12

    Default Re: Hubby's heart is breaking, what do I do now?

    Quote Originally Posted by RidesLikeNew
    I am still waiting to hear from ladies who were initiators...

    Hi RidesLikeNew,

    I was the initiator, in that I was the one who brought it up. I had a FMF while I was still single, and I mustered up the courage to tell him (not knowing for sure what he'd think/how he'd react). My primary reason for telling him about it was not to convince him to swing, but to get our relationship to a level that I'd never experienced with anybody before - complete openness about sexual things, ability to share fantasies without fear of repercussion, etc. My primary reason for doing it was simply intimacy. However, my opening up to him with that bit of history became the catalyst that led us to explore swinging.

    Quote Originally Posted by RidesLikeNew
    I see posts from men about how they have hurt their wives by their interest in swinging, but I would love to hear from ladies who have been there.
    I didn't hurt my husband, but I did surprise him. I just let it be. (At this point I didn't think it would lead to anything.) Before long, it intrigued him and he came to me with tons of questions - we talked on an ongoing basis about it. I suppose you could say I just let his thoughts unfold in a natural way. We moved forward together toward the swinging idea, and the progression was fairly gradual (a few months).

    Quote Originally Posted by RidesLikeNew
    For the past couple of months, my husband and I have been actively talking about trying swinging, at my urging.
    I think that the main difference was that there was no urging on my part. I've read a lot of posts here where men are urging women - many are here to ask for ideas on how to convince their wife, how to get her to like it, to want it, etc. Personally, I just can't see urging someone toward swinging. I think that it would breed resentment, even if the one being urged is giving in and complying. I guess I just think how little I like it when someone's trying to sell me on something I'm not convinced of, urging me toward something I'm not comfortable with at this time, etc. I'd be pissed. I'd probably dig my heels in because I'm not one to be pressed. I'd also feel disrespected, in this way: "So you want to _____, and these are all the reasons you think it would be so great....but are you even considering my feelings? Don't you respect how I feel? If you're pushing me toward something you know I'm not ready for/don't really want for myself, you don't respect me. You don't care about me the way I really want and need to be cared for." You could fill in the blank with anything, that's how I'd personally feel if someone was "urging" me to do something that I wasn't ready to do right now. Since I believe my soulmate would know me well enough to realize that the urging is not the way to go with me, I'd wonder what is motivating him so strongly that he would risk screwing up our relationship. "Why is this thing so important to you that you have to push?" That's the way my mind would work, if I were in the shoes of the person that someone is trying to convince. The next line of thinking might be, "What am I lacking, that he feels he has to try to talk me into this? Why does he need other women so much?"

    In reality, I haven't ever been made to feel this way, because my husband's never urged me toward something I didn't jump right on board with on my own. But, I can see how I could feel that way if he did.

  13. Back To Top | #13

    Default Re: Hubby's heart is breaking, what do I do now?

    I am the initiator... but I didn't share your situation. What you have told us makes me think that there is something deeper, which leads me to ask you a few question...
    How often do you have sex? Do you typically initiate the sex? In your post, you said that he said:
    "I have never been able to satisfy you sexually, not ever. ..."
    ... this makes me feel that for him this goes well beyond the swinging issue and that he does really believe he can't or doesn't satisfy you...

  14. Back To Top | #14

    Default Re: Hubby's heart is breaking, what do I do now?

    Or -- he may be jealous? Jealousy makes us say things we never would have, such as, "I have never been able to satisfy you sexually ..." -- sounds to me like he has his ego bruised, he's a bit jealous, and he's kinda pouting. Dare I say, he's acting like a girl (LOL!!)?

    I think you have a good man, you just need to talk more to him, and keep stroking his ego so he knows that he IS number 1 (and there is no reason for me to believe otherwise) and see how things shake out.

    Good luck!

  15. Back To Top | #15

    Default Re: Hubby's heart is breaking, what do I do now?

    Thanks for your supportive notes. I guess all men have some amount of anxiety about not being able to satisfy their wives, on so many levels, including sexually.

    Bottom line is this: We're still having that daily hot sex, even though I am not verbalizing anything about swinging. Proceed at the level of the least interested party, as it were.

    Since my initial post, we have had some good communication. I assured him that he DOES satisfy me, and I especially reminded him that the God's own truth is that I haven't touched another man (or woman) passionately since 1978. I also reminded him that that *my* fantasy is not centered on being with another man so much as playing around with a good lady friend, gently, which I am sure the boys would be very interested in, and then watch and be watched with my own partner. I often say to him that this is something almost everyone does in college, even back in my Fred Flintstone days, and now that we're empty nesters, I have this longing to get in on something I kind of missed out on.

    You know, one thing he said was, "There's really no one I can talk to about 'My wife wants me to have sex with another woman.'" I reminded him if we just met another play couple socially--no sex, just friendly--that he would certainly have someone to talk with about that.

    All of which seemed to make a light go off.

    And we *are* still having that daily hot sex, even though I am not verbalizing anything about swinging. Proceed at the level of the least interested party, yes, yes.

    Cheers, Hope to stay in touch, thanks to all for writing,
    Mrs. Rides

    PS: I always love the "our first time" posts on here, and I know other newbies do, too. I especially appreciate the ones where the first time wasn't that great but you were still interested enough to try it again and it was great. Cheers, and thanks to all

  16. Back To Top | #16

    Default Re: Hubby's heart is breaking, what do I do now?

    Wonderful news!!! You are doing things the right way by going with your husband's comfort levels. Just by you letting back will show your hubby that you are commited to him and his comfort levels. Take things slowly. Now I HEAR you on the having no one to talk to area. When we were younger in the ls we were the same way. You need to find mentors. These are experienced people that you are comfortable with who can help you with these issues. For us it was Mr. and Mrs. and Mrs. Menage. Poor Mr. M had to put up with my hysterical ass on a few occasions LOL. I think if there is a swingers club in your area it might be a good thing for you if nothing else to be in the atmosphere and see that swingers are everyday people. I can be at a boy scout meeting in the day with our son and at a swingers club that night. This way you can meet people who live in your area that you can talk with as well. You just go to dance and have fun.
    But take things as they come, you are doing well. Glad to hear good news.
    Shelly
    Merry Christmas and a Ho Ho Ho
    Shelly

  17. Back To Top | #17

    Default Re: Hubby's heart is breaking, what do I do now?

    I agree with ShellyM...you are doing things the right way. By taking things slow and reassuring your husband you're giving him time to think things through and come to terms with this on his own.

    I was the one who initially brought this up with my hubby. It started with some sexy talk in the bedroom, led to me talking about some past experienced I'd had before we were married and eventually got him to buy me as a suprise our first porn movie that included lesbian sex and some threesomes. My hubby was very conservative, and still is in some ways.....though he's come A LONG way! He was brought up to believe sex was bad and all sex had to be missionary style, etc. He went to a Baptist High school and that has never left him...though now he's learned sooooo much. Mainly that the things WE do as husband and wife is about love...whether it's just the two of us or a group of us...it's all about our love for one another and the wonderful gift of sex that God gave us and the gift of freedom we can give each other.

    It took a long time to get to where we are. Honestly, even though I brought it up, I was suprised at the jealousy I felt at first. That has faded over time. Someone else brought up bringing another woman into the mix first....and that's not a bad idea. That's what we did. I am bisexual, so it wasn't an issue for me...and we've only had threesomes with women since we started until this last weekend where we had our first foursome. He's now becoming more open to my having sex with other men. He used to feel as yours does that it meant that it was something he was lacking in. After time, he's come to realize that it isn't that he's lacking but that it's a gift he can give to me. After all this time of having FMF he's starting to see that adding another man into the mix isn't only the fair thing to do, but also something he might enjoy.

    I hope this isn't too long...but I really feel for your situation. It takes a long time sometimes to get to a place where you are both comfortable...but you'll get there with patience. Whether or not you and your husband ever swing, talking about it, talking about your relationship, communication...that's what's going to make your marriage strong. Take things slow...talk talk talk. And keep having as much sex as you can! Good luck!
    "I am giddy; expectation whirls me round; Th' imaginary relish is so sweet that it enchants my sense" -- Shakespeare--

  18. Back To Top | #18

    Default Re: Hubby's heart is breaking, what do I do now?

    It seems to me you're managing the issue pretty well.

    I don't think the issue varies too much because of the gender. Both male and females can have ego issues, and both can read in between the lines to get what their low self steem wants them to hear: "if my partner is asking to swing, it's necesarily because I am not doing it well enough".

    Dropping the subject is good, and as you said in your last post, it seems to work, however I'd pay attention to his low self steem regarding to sex. From the way you find out there was an issue, it seems he's the sort of person who use to swallow his toughts and rumble about them before saying a word, and wether you ever swing or not, I believe this is something worth to take care of.

    Perhaps in some other circumstances, or if you let pass some water under the bridge before doing it, I'd say it'd be good for your husband to take a look at the board and even to participate, as to get to know from swingers what actually leads us to swing, moreover the fact that we don't do this because we don't get enough satisfaction from our spouses, to the point we'd advice against trying to swing to any couple following such a goal.

    Of course, asking him to come to read the forum could be perceived as an attempt to talk him into swinging, and if this were the case, this wouldn't be a good idea. But I believe something like this could help to reasure himself about the motivations you had when bringing the subject.

  19. Back To Top | #19

    Default Re: Hubby's heart is breaking, what do I do now?

    Quote Originally Posted by RidesLikeNew
    Thanks to all for your insights. I am still waiting to hear from ladies who were initiators...

    I'm the initiator in our relationship. We have been talking seriously about this for the last 2- 2&1/2 months, but between my new job and him working almost every weekend and the kids, we haven't been able to get to any swing events.

    In some ways, I'm lucky. My husband and I have been together just over two years and were both married before. I said right upfront that I'm bi- had experiences with women, and I don't want to give that up forever. He was completely turned on by the idea. My husband almost exclusively when looking at porn for instance, views lesbian oriented porn. It's kind of his thing before even meeting me. The hard part in the real world is that people are human and it's not just some "hypothetical woman" with no emotions of her own. In other words, the last thing I wanted to do was complicate a female friendship (already have been that that painful road) or hurt some poor lesbian woman or really even get into any heavy emotional relationships with women period, so after a lot of thought, swinging with other married (or in committed relationships) bi women with our male partners present. I love my husband and want to be with him for the rest of my life, but to never feel the touch and give to another woman is too much for me.

    In my former marriage, he was very closed minded about sex (I met him very young- at 18) and he had trouble just opening up in the context of vanilla hetero-sex. I couldn't open up to him because whenever, I even began to open my doors just a crack, it was slammed shut. I remember watching a movie once with a married women who was bi. He was very much NOT turned on. His response was, "If she couldn't handle the commitment to one person, she shouldn't have gotten married." I said, "So if that were me, you couldn't handle it." He said, "If that were you, I'd divorce you in a second. I wouldn't put up with shit like that." Needless to say, after several years, his attitude regarding this and many, many other things on his part lead me to seek a divorce.

    I don't have any huge desire to be with other men, but I'm open enough to feel turned on by the presence of another man if he were the partner of a woman I was with. I know a lot of people in the swing world view this as "swing lite" so to speak, but there's different levels and different desires and from what I've learned in the past few months, there's A LOT of women out there like me and like us. I just can't wait to finally have a free Saturday night together to do something about it!!!

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