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Happypair

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15 Good

About Happypair

  • Rank
    Contributor

Personal Info

  • Relationship Status
    couple
  • Location
    Niagara, Ontario Canada
  • Interests
    Music (esp. blues, C&W), dancing, fishing, baseball, motorcycling.
  • Occupation
    social services
  • Swinging Experience
    one year

Swinger Info

  • Favorite Club(s)
    2250-Hamilton, ON; Close Encounters 69, Toronto, ON
  1. You are probably quite correct that the degree of guilt you felt/feel is largely related to the fact that you had never before been with someone other than your husband. This is a major departure from societal norms, religious teaching and in general the rules that most of us have lived by until we break free. Your comment about finally being able to look your husband in the eye is interesting. That seems to say that you feel you have betrayed him. But you also say that he is supportive, that he loved watching you. The two things that give swingers the most difficulty are jealousy and dishonesty. Neither of these seems to be an issue with the two of you. You and your hubby obviously communicate well, another big plus in the lifestyle. Ask yourself these three questions: Was anyone hurt by your actions? Was anyone deceived? Was anyone jealous? If not, you have nothing to feel guilty about. Welcome to the lifestyle. We say proceed cautiously, but proceed.
  2. Many of the major swing clubs are affiliated with the umbrella organization NASCA International (National Association of Swing Clubs of America, I believe) which has as its symbol a stylized red apple with a bite out of it. NASCA's motto is, "For those who want more than one bite out of the apple." If you belong to an affiliated club, the symbol may be reproduced on your membership card. The apple (with permission, of course) could be made into cute little earrings or lapel pins, but as someone suggested about this board, what percentage of active swingers actually know about NASCA or its apple? One swinger friend of ours didn't. He and his wife were at a lifestyle camp-out where they were giving out t-shirts with the apple on them. The apple covered the whole front of the shirt. Although very private about his lifestyle activities, he had no idea what it meant, and was wearing it in public, here, there and everywhere. After we told him what it meant, we never saw it again. A secret handshake, if it were known throughout the lifestyle, would be discreet, at least. I suspect any apparel, jewelry, armbands and so forth might attract way too many questions from the vanilla crowd. The coloured armbands might be great ice-breakers at a meet & greet, but who wants to explain what those numbers mean to his mother-in-law?
  3. As others have stated, it's all about 'risk management', and it's up to each couple to decide what an acceptable level of risk is. Given our 'druthers', we prefer our sex bareback. But we NEVER try to persuade others to our way of thinking. We are a 50-plus couple, married forever, and we are not into big numbers, preferring a friends-first approach to the lifestyle. We are selective; we get to know people before we get naked with them, and ultimately if we're not comfortable with being intimate with them bareback, we're not comfortable being intimate, period. This does limit our choices. We don't do the on-premise club scene, or house parties (except where we already know the participants). We don't do singles. We take a pass on bi-male couples, and we wouldn't mix it up with the couples Chicup is talking about either. All of the above are legitimate facets/members of the swing community; they just don't fit our risk profile. Are we representative swingers in general, or any sub-group? I dunno. There are so many variables. But within the white, mid-income, 45-and-up crowd, we are getting the perfect amount of action: more than I can handle, almost as much as Happymama would like. And the vast majority of it is latex-free.
  4. Then there was the cowboy who confessed to a friend that on those weeks-long solo cattle drives, he would occasionally become intimately acquainted with his horse. "Really?" replied his buddy. "Is it male or female?" "Female, of course," snapped the cowboy. "Ya think I'm gay?" So we all have our prejudices and taboos, this writer included. I'm wondering if we can get back to the original question (or at least that general area), that being, just how tolerant we straights are regarding male bisexuality. Madame and I are both straight (call her a bit bi-curious, but she's not really comfortable with the whole thing). That said, we like to consider ourselves tolerant of the choices of others. And yet... We met and chatted with a couple some time ago at a meet & greet. They were in our (50-plus) age range, reasonably attractive, and we enjoyed chatting with them... had quite a bit in common. We also discussed the fact that his ad mentions that he is orally bi. Yes, he said, but only orally, and he would never try to 'convert' anyone. Unless a swing partner requested it, the subject would never come up. (BTW, he also said he'll blow a guy, but no kissing.) Sooooo.. I'm not prejudiced.. (and notice how the next word is always 'but')... but that was months ago and we've been consistently 'too busy' to set something up with them. Am I more homophobic than I care to admit? Perhaps, but there is something else, and I never see this discussed on the board. We are a long-term couple and prefer that in partners, friends-first, quality-over-quantity, blah, blah, blah. In short, we are selective, then if those we select are of similar mind, we prefer our sex bareback. We ALWAYS respect the wishes of others who prefer safe sex, but from our standpoint, if we feel the need to glove up to protect ourselves, we're going to either wait until we know you better, or just move on. But what about our new friends? Based on every other impression, we would be intimate with them, and do it without latex. But yes, now we're nervous about catching bad things that are associated with male homosexuality. And yes, he's only orally bi, not that risky in itself, but how do we know that applies to all his friends, that some of them, while respecting his limits, may be fully bi, and of course swinging with his wife? We certainly respect this couple for their honesty; had they not been upfront about his bi side, I am sure we'd have mixed it up with them long ago, condom-free if they desired. So, without getting into the whole safe-sex in general debate (that's a horse that has been whipped to death), I would like to throw out a few questions: Is this 'quiet' prejudice common... we respect your bi-ness, just won't get it on with you? If so, is it not because of what you do, but fear that you're in (or on the fringe of) a high-risk group? If you (male) are bi (even just orally), is there a moral obligation to disclose this right off the bat, or in ads? And finally, are there straight-male couples who do swing, or have, with bi-male couples, and what are your thoughts?
  5. So many good answers.. please pay attention, if for no other reason than as catslaughing said, this train wreck if a relationship of yours should not be imposed on innocent victims. Mark this, if you let him bully you into this, your next separation will be looming soon. The other six? Oh yes, all those people interfering. Lemme guess, interfering by telling you to lose the controlling jerk. You live to please him? Just for fun, google up 'Stockholm Syndrome' and then look in the mirror. You sound like a hostage in your home, and you do NOT belong in a lifestyle that, as everyone above has pointed out, is all about equality.
  6. I (male half) think most of us agree that straight, bi, and almost any combination of letters: mfmf, mfm, fmf, mm, ff, or whatever are legitimate in this day and age, provided everyone is straightforward up front and nobody goes home feeling they were excluded from the action. We are relatively new (two years) to swinging, but represent what now seems to be the minority: the traditional straight/straight full-swap couple. My suggestion to the OP: load your group up with as many of us as you can find, especially us older, not-so-pretty couples; we don't cause anybody any trouble. We believe in equality: everybody gets to play. We're past the Ken & Barbie bullshit; we're after people, not plastic. And we are SECURE. We understand that sharing is a two way street: if i'm boinking your wife, you're entitled to enjoy mine. Single males are legitimate, provided you screen out the assholes and balance their numbers to the number of couples (or single women) who have indicated an interest in mfm's. I define assholes as that segment who think swinging is a free sex banquet and our wives are all sluts just waiting to pleasure them. No, it's a pot-luck supper, dipshit; you want a dish, bring a dish. The group that I suspect is throwing things out of kilter (and wailing the most) is the couples with bi-fems crowd. We have run into three sub-groups here. 1) Full-swap couples where bi action is optional (we have had several good experiences with such couples as they have respected our non-bi boundaries). 2) Full-swap couples where bi activity is expected (we decline and all part friends, respecting each others' different wishes. 3) The bi-fem couple who want only the elusive single bi-fem, and not finding that, want a bi-fem couple, providing the husband doesn't mind sitting on his ass and watching. That, I think is where the numbers don't add. And that, I think, is where most of the complaining comes from: "I won't share my wife with other men, and we can't get any action because of all these selfish bastards who won't share their wives either." There are, of course, women swingers who strictly on their own choose only to be with other women but to let their husbands share those women. More often I suspect, like the little newbie who posted earlier, it's "this is what I want because my husband tells me this is what i want." Just my highly prejudiced opinion; take it with a grain of salt.
  7. Like DBL D, I think this smacks of something else.. trust issues, jealousy, whatever.. but it's more than just what goes in which body opening. I am curious, and a bit disturbed, that you feel 'disrespected' that she would bring the topic up. Good Lord, swinging is all about having fantasies, and, if both halves of a couple agree, acting upon them. Now, this is not to say you should (or rather, she should) go ahead. Far from it. Always proceed at the pace of the slowest partner, which in this case is you. But you must talk, communicate, find common ground somewhere, or this (and any similar issue) could become divisive. While this question is about anal, the same principles should apply to any couple on the topic of expanding boundaries. We, and I think most couples, have changed (relaxed) our rules quite a bit since we started. But the restrictions came off only after no-pressure discussion, and only when both of us agreed 100% that a particular rule had no valid function and was in fact interfering with our enjoyment of the lifestyle. It happens that the anal rule was one we dropped fairly early on. Like most couples of this era, Happymama and I had previous lovers before getting together, but we were each other's first anal partners. So we talked about keeping it as a special thing between us. But sometimes, when you're really clicking with a swinging partner, you want to do it all, to enjoy the full repertoire. Thus we decided, we can share this with others; nothing will take away the fact that we were the first for each other. And yes, those back door orgasms certainly are possible. So that's our story, and how we rationalized and solved an issue. You need to look at what your roadblocks are.. what is the real reason behind your rule.. and go from there. She does have a right to her fantasy, but not to act upon it until both of you are ready.
  8. One thing that will weigh very strongly in Diana's favour throughout this battle is the degree of support she is receiving from you. Reed, your love, concern and support are evident in each post; she is not fighting alone. Again, our sincere best wishes to you both,
  9. Reed & Diana, you have tried the "professional" approach without good results. Now, please consider the "amateur" method, the one that has rescued millions of lives from the grips of alcoholism over the past 70 years. I am speaking of Alcoholics Anonymous. It is the granddaddy of all 12-step programs. I say "amateur" because there are no psychologists fucking with your brain, just fellow sufferers from all walks of life supporting one another, enlightening one another... sharing the gift of sobriety with one another. It's kinda like this board, in a way... if you want to know about swinging, you could read some academic's research project, or you can come here and get the story first hand from people who know and love the lifestyle. AA is like that. The members have walked the walk (well, staggered, most of us), so they are truly qualified to talk the talk. Wherever you are, there is an AA group nearby. There should be a contact number in your phone book; failing that ask your health professional or emergency hotline. Again, best wishes in your struggle.
  10. I'm (male half of the couple) fairly new both to the lifestyle and this board, so correct me If i'm out of place... It seems to me the purpose of this forum, and my duty should I undertake to speak as a lifestyler, is to provide accurate, unbiased information as to the benefits (and dangers) of swinging. It should NOT be the purpose of this board, or anyone who purports to speak for the lifestyle, to "talk someone into" swinging when they are clearly not ready. Vegas Lee is so, so right. This thread should have ended with his initial response. Yes, swinging is a great lifestyle for those of us who "get it", who understand it's about genuinely free choice, about equality, about sharing and perhaps most important, about respect. But every day, there are two or three new posts, from people who don't get it, asking for help in getting their reluctant partners onside. And because we're so eager to "sell" swinging, we say, "Just bring her to the board, we'll show her the way." Why? She is saying No. She is being asked to perform sexual acts against her will. There is a word for that. Rape! The vast majority of people who write these "help me convince my spouse" posts are not swingers in any way, shape or form. They are abusers. And every time we tell people to bring their reluctant SOs to the board so we can convert them, we become participants in a gang-bang.
  11. Reed&diana, since your thread is back in the "current" list, we would welcome an update. We're on your side, guys, and we'll stay on your side even if things aren't going as smoothly as planned. Where else can you find people who can discuss - from the vantagepoint of experience - both lifestyle and addiction issues? If you don't want to make your struggle too public, I am sure any one of us would welcome an I.M. from you. Oh and the double-addiction thing... there's probably some truth to that, but it wouldn't be my biggest concern. Sex addiction is a helluva lot more fun, and there's no breathalyzer to worry about. Best wishes.
  12. Sereneiders, old buddy, where are you and your flame-thrower? Here's another mysogynistic jerk-off who would benefit from your roasting skills. Granted, this one doesn't promote the use of alcohol or drugs to get her horizontal, but that same disrespect is so, so evident. Like other respondents we suspect (hope) this tale would be more correctly posted on a fiction board under the heading "I don't want a wife, I want a porn pig". But whether this incident actually happened is beside the point; this type of crap does go on. And while the lady in this piece is said to be willing, the sad fact is they are so often coerced, drunk, drugged or any combination thereof. "Pussy-pounding"? Jesus H. Christ! This is not about a lady living out a fantasy; it's about being a freak show. Sadly, that's what a lot of vanilla types seem to see swinging as being about. Maybe we're overreacting, but we don't think so. Flame these disrespectful assholes, we say, until they and all their kind are terrified to post their garbage on what is otherwise a thoughtful and helpful forum.
  13. Lee nailed it, as he usually does. Lifestyle world... vanilla world... it really doesn't make any difference, the temptations will be there, and it's up to us to deal with them. The lifestyle world can be a bit drama-filled, but so is life in general. Try to separate the two -- your recovery from the lifestyle -- as they really have nothing to do with one another. And if you do find stresses "piling up" and have to put one or the other on hold, then please, please, remember which has to come first. Swinging is life enhancement, your recovery is your life! And yes, I'm a friend (1978) of Bill W's too.
  14. As an older, essentially straight couple, we really relate to many of the sentiments expressed here. Mama is listed as bi-curious because 1) she doesn't rule out at least a bit of experimentation, and 2) she doesn't want to appear too rigid in this "enlightened" era and thereby be eliminated from consideration. What we make clear with any new couple from the very beginning, however, is that anything bi must be considered a bonus, and unlikely at that. If it's an expectation, colour us gone! When it comes to couples who seek only bi-females, or couples with bi females, we suspect we are just hearing the point of view of a jealous, controlling husband. He wants to boink other women; he wants a girlie show because that doesn't threaten him, but he is terrified when he considers the possibility of me getting within pronging range of his bride. God forbid, I might be... competent. As to where is the best place to meet couples.. our experience is that ads are okay, clubs maybe, but referrals are best of all. Friends steer you to other friends, the new people have already been run through the bullshit filter. Networking works in sales jobs, and it's great in the lifestyle as well. Cheers, everybody.
  15. Funny... who'd have thought a willing chick would have difficulty finding volunteers for a dp? We're middle-agers, relatively new, normally into swapping with one other couple at a time. On the one occasion two other couples were involved, Mama got (and loved) the vag-oral combo with the other guys while I was enjoying my first double bj. But those couples weren't into anal (is there a correlation between age and whether couples do/don't do anal?) and so far the right circumstances have not come up for a dp situation. It is now her #1 unfulfilled fantasy. Funny, there is one couple we swing with regularly, including anal if desired, and the other lady fantasizes about a dp too. But he is soooo homophobic... won't even be on the same bed as another guy. So Mama waits.... Roxy - What is PDP?
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