eager4more

Ok, I haven't checked this site in months. Frankly, we have pretty much withdrawn from the lifestyle except to go flirt at an off-premise club, and when we do go to the occasional on-premise party anymore we don't play with anyone new. In hindsight, I realized I got hpv almost immediately after we started swinging. The herpes came along within the next 7 months. This was almost 2 years ago. I had a leep procedure to cut out pre-cancerous cervical cells last year, and next week will have a colposcopy to check out another abnormal pap. My husband and I no longer have spontaneous sex because I'm always wondering if I'm on the verge of an outbreak, and we don't want him to get herpes too. The man I think I got herpes from (the condom slipped) looked completely stunned and denied having anything. The guy organizing the on-premise parties apparently allowed him back into them. But then again, one of the other couples we had played with shortly before my first outbreak, never responded to our email telling them about it. When we next ran into them, they said, "So sorry, we know how you feel." We never followed up on what they meant. They asked if we were interested in playing again (we said no). They seemed like a perfectly nice couple. We found out through a 3rd party that another person is married to someone with herpes. All he said in response to our email was "bummer," no other disclosure on his part. So much for honesty. As we were recovering from the initial shock of it all, we told pretty much anyone who talked to us at whatever lifestyle gatherings we went to, and it was good to hear some of them were interested in playing with us anyway. But we weren't ready then emotionally, and since then, I don't have the energy to tell people anymore. So we haven't played with anyone new, and even with the old friends, it's been limited to very soft-swing. We're now seen as a "tease" by some people even though we make it clear from the beginning that we don't intend to do more than flirt. Previously I felt invincible. Yes, it was irrational. We never explicitly asked people about their disease status. We weren't really worried about it when we found out the condom slipped. Even after being diagnosed, I was surprised that the hpv progressed to pre-cancerous lesions. So, why is it so rare to read about a story like ours on a site like this? I can't speak for others who caught an std through swinging - I thought about writing something to this site about it all at the time, but felt too angry and betrayed (plus life got busier for other reasons). But I had to respond after seeing yet another several posts about how the lifestyle is mostly full of "clean" and "responsible" people. Granted, one of the couples we notified after being diagnosed had been in the lifestyle for years and had not caught anything (or so they believed) - maybe we just had supremely bad luck. Or maybe others are equally irrational as we had been, only one step further in that they refuse to acknowledge whatever symptoms they may already have is an std. Denial is a powerful thing. After all no one has ever asked us about our disease status either. I no longer blindly trust that, if we were to actively full-swing again, we won't get something worse like hiv. Bottom line, it is a Russian roulette - it comes with fun and thrills, but you should go in with full knowledge of the risks, un-sugarcoated.

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies and advice. I am the original poster and, out of paranoia (which may be overblown but I'm sure you understand given the question) wanted to post it anonymously. We never had any intention to try to lie about it if asked a direct question, but we just wanted to know whether we would Definitely be looking at a denial of clearance (and HAVE to start looking for another job) or whether there's any chance for this to go through. It sounds like the worst case scenario is if we get a screener who is very conservative in that the person considers swinging an example of inexcusable "poor judgment." I guess it's hit or miss who we get. So, we'll still be trying to drum up another job offer, but with less urgency.

Dito to everything. Plus, there's a place for everything and everythign has its place - smaller would be great for anal.

So didya take a picture? Share share!

I was told by a clinician at Planned Parenthood that they followed people with definite genital herpes for 1 year and swabbed the known lesion areas on a regular basis - maybe everyday- regardless of whether or not there was a visible outbreak. That's how they found asymptomatic shedding. For these people the shedding would start a few days before a visible outbreak. Now that's 2nd hand (or maybe 3rd or more) information. Three weeks ago I had my first outbreak. No one has 'fessed up. When we spoke to the "prime suspect," he seemed stunned. He seemed to decide that it couldn't be him, which is understandable given that he's had no symptoms and when faced with the possibility of having herpes you (or at least we) try hard to hold onto anything that hints otherwise. At least we told him and hopefully he'll be more watchful for symptoms now and be more careful about correct condom usage than he was with us.

OMMMmmmmmmmm.......

A recent trip to my gynecologist reminded me of this thread. Swinging is a new thing since the last time I saw her. She knows I'm married and plan to have kids, so she was surprised when I asked for an std screen. I stammered something about sexual contact outside of my marriage. She: Long pause. "so, is your marriage going to last?" Me: "Yes... It was his idea." She: "But, , WHY?" Me: "..... cuz, uhm, he thought it'd be fun?" She: "But, WHY?" Me: She: "Well, never mind. Do you enjoy it?" Me: "Yes!" She: "Well, as long as you enjoy it, who am I to say no?" Some minutes and a speculum later (sorry if that's too graphic but I doubt this is a particularly squeamish crowd), I felt the need to further emphasize that I was NOT cheating. Me: "Well, he's there at the same time." She: "All three of you together? or more of you?" Me: nodding She: "All three?" Me: "Yes." She: "And more?" Me: "Uhm, sometimes." She had something to talk about at lunch that day!

This is such a blurry topic because of all the different situations that come up. We all agree on rule #1 that no-means-no, and many situations are straightforward, like complete strangers groping out of nowhere, or continued groping after already being told no. But I'm generally ok with having to say no the first time (and only the first time) in a less clear-cut situation, like when you're chatting and being friendly, and the other person thinks they've laid the proper "groundwork" and makes a move without asking that silly "can-I-touch-your-breast" question - but they're wrong . Some people are just more socially dense than others, and I think everyone can have "off" times when they're more socially dense than their usual selves, either in swinging or vanilla situations - I know I have . Want to be clear that my tolerance does NOT extend to those clear-cut situations like Mrs Indy's.

Yes, it is a matter of exposure ( ). As a teen I lived for a year in a country where most households did not have private showers at the time, so everyone used the public bathhouse. Boy did it take awhile for me to get comfortable being naked in front of all those people, even though they were all female! and during busy hours it was CROWDED . But that experience definitely cured me of shyness about nudity!

This is something I have been trying to sort out as well. We are relatively new to the lifestyle and I was pleasantly surprised to feel free enough to explore my bi-curiosity. After lots of flirting, caressing, and kissing, and a few experiences with oral sex, I'm no longer "curious." I definitely enjoy the sensuality of flirting kissing and caressing, but do draw the line at giving oral sex, and by extension, prefer to not receive it so I don't feel "beholden." I've received (and mostly enjoyed) from several and have reciprocated with 2 women. Those two times didn't excite me like it does with a man, and in fact I had to push myself to try it. I even tried the 2nd time bc of wondering if I was too nervous, etc, the first time. Who knows, maybe it's still my socially-learned hangups keeping me from feeling it and eventually I could fully enjoy it, but for now I've decided that I gave it a shot, and just didn't like it. Bi-curious? Not anymore. Completely straight? not that either, since it'd be awkward to not be able to caress and kiss and be affectionate with other women. But certainly not completely bi, nor situational, hedonistic, or any of that. Hmm, can we call it anatomically bi?

Is it possible that they are really new to the lifestyle and are just starting to figure out their procedures? They may have decided on a certain series of steps and anything deviating from that would be "red flags" for them. With time they may learn better which boundaries to relax and which to maintain. Who knows, it could even be their experience with you that shows them that certain things are not worth being so rigid about. But then again, if they never learn from experience and stay inflexible about little things like chats, you're probably better off without them. Imagine what sex with them would be like!

Dito Same here, with a vanilla friend of ours! I don't think I would have dared without following this thread!

In articles/shows about swinging (ok, the more positive ones) they make a point to say that the swingers are solid middle class people, and then toss out some examples of their interviewee's professions, like "even doctors and bankers do it!" But don't they most often go to clubs to find these people, where the fees are ~$80 - $100 for the on premise clubs in big cities? Who else can afford that? And it takes a certain amount of money to be able to attend conventions and stuff. We have friends who go to clubs almost every weekend (off-premise, still expensive but not as much) and those who only go for special occasions. I think swinging is the same as most hobbies - the sky's the limit on how much you can spend, but as Mrs. Spoomoney said, "I guess the bottom line is if you can afford it great, if not I think there are always ways to cut back. Choose a different type of drink, restaurant, etc. This should be fun not financially stressful."

Years ago, someone told me that she was traumatized as a teen when her parents became Bhudists. After I asked several questions to try to figure out exactly how this religious conversion in her parents was traumatizing to herself, she said something like "well they were walking around with no clothes on!" Yeah, great listener that I was. To this day, hubby and I use the word "bhudist" as code word for "nudist."

Congrats on your newfound level of fun Who would benefit from your telling him - you, him or both - and how? In the short-term or in the long run? On one hand I agree with the previous posts, but if iyou don't tell him and it turns into something that's going to eat at you for years, that could affect you both in the long run as well. Sorry for the wishy-washy non-answer...