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RNDNV

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16 Good

About RNDNV

  • Rank
    100 Posts Club

Personal Info

  • Relationship Status
    Couple
  • Location
    Reno, NV
  • Interests
    Outdoor sports, golf, home improvement, dancing
  • Occupation
    professionals

Swinger Info

  • SLS Name
    RNDNV
  1. Well Naughtycool, now that I have read this whole thread, I can honestly say that this thread is an excellent mirror for your present situation in life, and frankly, I think the communication problems (if there are any) start with you! Honestly, I have read all your posts, and frankly, I am not really clear about what went down other than what is clear is that you created your own results. I SUSPECT you guys are in a bad patch, and, it APPEARS to be getting worse, and, it SEEMS that you guys are in poor communication with each other, but at the end of the day my unclear perceptions are due to YOUR LACK OF ABILITY OR SIMPLE UNWILLINESS TO GIVE US THE FULL AND COMPLETE STORY! I agree that hearing your wife's version would help, but I suspect that you could no more get your wife to read this thread and contribute to it (so that we can give you advise that might help you) than you could "prevent" your wife from screwing other men at her whim. At the end of the day, your wife is a free and autonomous spirit who is free to do what she pleases, and if in exercising her choices she does things that hurt you, and she knows that it hurts you but does it anyway, then your relationship is decaying, and frankly, trying to "whoo" her back is just placating to her need to have her esteem pumped. For you to get any real advise here, you need to be more detailed as to what went down that night (I am still unclear if the first guy is the same second guy, or if they are two different men), AND your wife needs to chime in with her side of the story.
  2. Not pissed off here at all chastity, nor do I hold poly relations near and dear. I just am a big fan of open mindedness, and freedom from negative societal judgments and pressures. You need not have gotten defensive, I just chose to use your statements as evidence of how even us swinger types (which I am assuming you are one) so easily succumb to societal mores and allow the same to dictate our behaviors. We as swingers, albeit mostly in the closet, choose to "swim upstream" because we have (hopefully) come to realize that "traditional societal rules" are often BULLSHIT, and in place simply due to adherence to long standing traditions that don't work or serve us as humans. We as humans MUST evolve. If 9/11 proved anything, it proved that when it comes to human relations we haven't kept pace with technology, and while everyone can understand you wouldn't want to give a caveman the button to a nuclear device, the reality is we really aren't that far away from that scenerio anyway. I am a big believer in the power of the acceptance of sexual non-monogamy to be a positive step in the progress of human development, and ultimately a path to world peace. Yeah, I know this sounds grandiose, but I leave with all of you reviewing this thread and my posting specifically to contemplate this theory of mine, and that is: For the world to truly find peace, it must collectively recognize and honor the "equal differences" and powers of the genders, and no where else in the world does there exist a more perfect microcosm of a peaceful, gender balanced world than a swing environment. Let me give you another example, there is no where in the world presently with as much societal unrest as the middle east, and no where else in the world where the human and natural rights of women are trampled on more than, yes, you guessed it, the middle east. I would contend that this is NOT an accident. The systematic disempowerment and disenfranchisement of women leads to societal chaos. So for the world to become a better place, we must all swing and swing with passion! And I believe it is our obligation to mankind to welcome with open arms and educate those who are on the outside, looking in, wishing to join, so if my passion got the better of me, chastity, please accept my apology with a warm hug and kiss. Love ya, RND
  3. Well chastity, this is exactly the kind of thinking I was talking about. You, by choice, lead your life on the gravitational pull of what is "normal," yet you talk a game that you wish poly relationships were accepted, but you obviously aren't the kind of person who would be willing to pay the price to effectuate the postitive change in the world you profess you would like to see. You are obviously willing to sit back and wait for the world to change, and then, when it has sufficiently changed (because some people were willing to take risks to make that change happen, risks are so obviously not willing to make yourself) such that things such as polyamorous relationships are accepted, then you might be willing to crawl out of the closet and jump on the of saying, "hey, I am for that." There are a lot of things about our modern society that are "normal" occurrances, such as: organized crime, murder, domestic violence, corporate theft, toxic environmental waste, securities fraud, child molestation, etc., and I bet you would say, "hey, I am not for that occurring." But I have a question for you, WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT IT? At the end of the day, I hotly dispute any position you might wish to take that has the effect of keeping a crab in the crab pot.
  4. Its a pipe dream only because people are so entrenched in their thinking that "this is the way the world works, so change is not possible." I will admit that the world doesn't work this way, but change will never happen if people just sit on their hands and say "well that's the way it is, let's be real and accept it, we wouldn't want to paddle up stream now." Who says the child would be damaged if the mother was open with her polyamourous relationships. Geez, this child might experience something from her parents that most other children don't, and that is actually witnessing their parent practice such traits such as honesty, openness, sharing, and integrity. So your suggestion chastity is to "protect" the child because he may be bellittled or made fun of by small thinking people operating out of their own very limited boxes? Its not just about the wife here, there is a husband that would need to grow into this new paradigm. I am not saying the prospect of a polyamorous relationship is THE ANSWER for them, it was just a suggestion for them to explore. It just seems like an appropriate suggestion to someone who truly feels she is in love with two men, and is also stuck in a paradigm that such relationships must be mutually exclusive. It is my contention that humans are not built that way. Love is not a mutually exclusive proposition, love is not a scarce resource, nor is love anything that should be associated with a right or something that justifies someone having any sort of possession over another person.
  5. Again, another example of advice being given from the "stuck paradigm" position. I am not advocating that she dump her hubby and move on to "greener pastures," just the opposite. I think her commitment to both her husband and child needs to be senior, but everyone is operating from the paradigm that SHE MUST DISCARD ONE, BECAUSE SHE CAN ONLY HAVE ONE! This paradigm is just a simple extension of the one all our vanilla friends live by wherein "one must only have sex with one's own spouse." We, as swingers, have discarded this rule as antiquated, non-functional, overly-restrictive, hypocritical, unnatural, or all or some of the above. We all have our reasons for sexual non-monagamy, but for some reason many on this board are "STUCK" on the viewpoint that one cannot love more than one person (at least at one time), and this is just wrong. IMHO, the FEAR associated with advice that SoftScorpio should "discard" her lover and concentrate on her "marriage" assumes that the very powers that would drive our vanilla friends to divorce court over sexual non-monagamy would drive this swinging couple to divorce court over emotional non-monagamy. One is simply an extension of the other, and if we were all sufficiently "emotionally hooked-up," we could all love each other with the same passion and excitement that we have in pursuing our more carnal physical pursuits, and the world would be a much better place for that. Love ya all, RND
  6. I can honestly say, you will get no better advice in the universe on the subject matter of your thread than right here on the Board... from those who have ACTUALLY EXPERIENCED WHAT YOU ARE ASKING ABOUT! While your partner may "perceive" that we are biased, the fact of the matter remains is that at one time we had not done anything, then we did, now we know, so now we share. But now you seek "professional" written reading material for opinions from those who have not done. Why? If you wanted to become a millionaire, and you wanted advice on how to do it, from whom would you take the advice on how to become one: from a millionaire, or from a college finance professor who makes $70K a year, but who is not a millionaire (but is a "professional" and so called expert on the subject)? I leave you with a quote, it is one of my favorites: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt (1858-1919)
  7. Absolutely, maybe and maybe not. The bulk of the earlier posts seem to be saying, "hey, you are screwed up in your thinking and you must dump (or put on the back burner, whatever that means) the boyfriend and concentrate on the husband. Well, I think that discounts her feelings toward the new man in her life. Temporal duration does not mean hubby has earned the right to be first in line for exclusive relationship consideration (if you even buy into this paradigm, which I obviously don't). Let me put it another way, I knew within one month that my wife was the gal for me for the rest of my life. I didn't need to overthink the situation, cohabitate with her for years, or even have sex with her to know that. Was I right, well I guess only time will tell, but so far its looking like a pretty damned good decision to me. Now as far as them having a kid together, well now that is a different subject. Just by the nature of that choice, they have made a decision to share their lives for many years going forward, EVEN IF THEY DIVORCE, THEY WOULD HAVE TO SHARE THEIR LIVES FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE CHILD. So in that regard, I do have different feelings, and they should do whatever it takes to preserve the primary bond relationship they have. Hubby and wife have chose to enter into this life, and now wife is in love with another man. My only suggestion is that hubby now gets to experience the possiblilty of sharing his wife in a greater capacity than initially contemplated, perhaps by either of them, if for anything to preserve his relationship and family. In otherwords, if husband says it has to be him or me, she just may choose him, when in reality what she really wants is both. To a certain extent, I know what I propose is really out there, but take this into consideration: Husband can never give to wife what boyfriend can give to her because husband is NOT boyfriend. Just the same, boyfriend can NEVER give to wife what the husband can give her, because boyfriend is NOT the husband. I am not talking about their respective roles or sexual abilities, I am talking about them each being unique and special individuals with their own gifts, talents and emotions, and clearly, wife loves them both for who they are. They are NOT fungible and neither should be easily discarded in preference for the other. IMHO, SoftScorpio is simply capable of great love and loving more than one man at a time. There is nothing wrong about that.
  8. Hey Spook, two things. One, you are absolutely okay and there is nothing at all wrong about how you feel. I totally adore watching my wife being with another man, and especially if she is really having a good time with him. The better time she is having, the more fun it is to watch. There is something very special about sharing and allowing your loved one to experience something that feels good and different, and it feels good to you to know that she can have those feelings without you getting all twisted up about it, but instead, really enjoying watching her have fun. Second, you don't NEED to do anything to get her into this. You have to respect her feelings, and she may never want to play with another man, and you would be best to accept this. Now, I am not saying that it won't ever happen, you just need to love her unconditionally, whether or not she does play with another. She must ultimately decide to play with another man (or woman, or couple) for her reasons, and not yours (ie: to fulfill your voyeuristic fantasy in this regard, and by the way, there is nothing wrong with being a voyeur either). My best suggestion is to mention that you are not sure how you really felt about the subject, but found some reassurance here, and invite her to read this very thread you started. Then talk about it, and be just as open minded for her in listening to her concerns as you are asking her to be regarding you guys pursuing this path of playing with others. Best wishes.
  9. Well Vespy sweetheart, we agree most of the time, but on this one I am going to take a different tack. I still love you though. Hey SoftScoprio, don't beat yourself up on this one too much, and understand that while most of the advise given is well meaning to help you save your marriage, and that is good thing, you might still want to honor your VERY LEGITIMATE feelings. Let's just acknowledge that you are currently in love with two men, your hubby and your lover. Actually, that is quite natural or should I say not totally unnatural. You might be on the cusp of establishing a polyamorous relationship (often called a "angle" where you are the vertex of the extended relationship). Here is what I am putting out to you to contemplate... WHAT IF YOU COULD HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO! Holy shit, isn't that the premise of what swinging is all about? What a friggin novel idea! (Okay, so maybe I need to back off on the sarcasm). "Traditional" swingers subscribe to a subset of rules that put the primary pair bond relationship (and often formalized and legally recognized ancient institution we call "marriage") first and foremost above all others. While that works for some people, that does not mean it works for all or everyone. Listen, if we let traditional societal strictures tell us the way things should be, swinging would be illegal and punishable by jail time, and gay people can forget about ever having a chance at getting gay marriage recognized. So how about you think "outside of the box" (just like all us swingers like to profess we do so as to think we got something a step ahead of all our up-tight vertical friends) and contemplate the possiblity that you can keep your husband, still throughly enjoy and be in relationship with your lover, and continue to raise your child in a stable home? Let me put it another way, who said there had to be a damned rule that says you must dump hubby in order to be in relationship with the new lover? Last point, if you go to marriage counseling or see a therapist (which I would suggest is something you totally do NOT need), be advised that by my estimates some 95+% of them have no idea how to handle non-traditional relationship issues and would probably come from a place of judgment far more screwed up than where you presently stand. You have all our love and support SoftScorpio, RND
  10. I guess this might be better done with a poll, but I was wondering if there are any gals out there who swore up and down they would never swallow (a man's cum at the conclusion of oral), and then eventually changed and started to do so. And if so, did you ever come to like it, or do you still not like doing it but do it anyways for whatever reason you may have? My question is driven by a variety of different postulates about what it is all about, such as: Is this something that some women won't do, and never will? Is this something most women will do, but don't really like to? Is this something all women might do, if they really got past their issues about it? Is this something all women really don't like to do, but just do it to please their guys? Is this something only a few women really actually like to do, and they AREN'T lying about that? Or are they? In sum, at what point does a woman decide "yeah, I think I will swallow this stuff coming out the end of my man's penis?"
  11. Good thread ES! We have never run into anyone who said they are into this, but we have heard some outrageous stories about it from others, so we would like to hear from anyone on the board who is into this or knows someone who is, and would you please attempt to explain it to us, because frankly, WE DON'T GET IT, NOR DO WE WANT TO EXPERIENCE IT! Potty games? What the hell is that all about, and why on Earth would anyone think this is sexually exciting in any way, shape or form??????
  12. Actually, we have run into this a couple of times, and frankly, we don't get it. If its really a "play couple" of yours, then its beyond our understanding at all. As the Mrs. says, "oh, you'll take my husband's cock in your mouth, but you won't even give him a kiss?" Reminds us of the old line, often said by women relating to financial screw-ups, "I got fucked and didn't even get kissed." Now for those couples who say that early on, and I have only heard of this "rule" being mentioned by the woman, I suspect it may be a rouse to indirectly say they are not interested in playing. Personally, I think this is crappy, if someone is not interested they should just say so. I would be interested if anyone on the board has used this line to deter the interests of another or suspects it was used on you?
  13. Dearest Jennifer, if you are going to hold yourself out as a single gal in the Lifestyle, AND, be in contact with single men in that vein, then I assure you are going to run into this kind of problem again. The reason I say this is that you are coming across as this sweet, indirect, non-confrontational type, who is probably a very wonderful and sensitive person who thinks everyone in the world is as sweet and kind as you are. However, in this case your attitude is a bit victim like, and the reality is you never had the stones to tell this guy, in a firm fashion, to take a hike early on. Your actions of relenting and continuing to IM with him just led him on to think he could do what he did. This guy is probably a lonely loser with nothing better to do than hunt you down. For whatever reason, stalker types such as him can smell a "victim" a mile away. I would sure hate to see you get hurt, but you may wish to do some deep examination of yourself and find out why you behaved the way you did in this case, otherwise, you might be setting yourself up to get hurt in a significant way and that will generate the change (in a negative way) in you that will keep you safe as opposed to you discovering that for yourself (the positive way). Take care, RND
  14. Now here is an example of the other direction Julie's hypo can go. In this case, you have a real concern. May I be so bold as to suggest a strategy for you guys? If the biological father does not wish to be a part of your child's life, then perhaps you may wish to consult with an attorney to find out what your options are to secure your concerns. I imagine this is what you will be told. If you don't receive child support from this person, which your wife is certainly entitled to receive, you may wish to contact this person to see if he would be willing to surrender his parental rights. The upsell to him of this is that he would never be obligated to pay for child support, and the advantage to you guys would be that you would then be free to adopt the child, thereby securing your parental rights. Of course, implicit in this is that if he does not wish to surrender his parental rights then you could pursue child support to help raise the child. For you specifically, with each passing day you do gain a somewhat tenuous "step-parent" right that, depending on the state you live in, may be significant or worthless, whatever the case may be. Now if you do get the termination, that typically should be followed up by an adoption, that way should you and yours someday in the future decide you no longer wish to be together (yeah, I know, that would never happen... but just in case...), you could preserve your own custodial rights of access to the child. In sum, you would never have to "worry" again that your relationship with your son could be severed.
  15. To respond to this thought, this is what I meant by the ethical issues that people of different opinions may vary as to what they perceive their "ethical obligations" are. The choice to "inform" the biological father carries with it the possibility that the biological father may indeed want to participate in the child's life to a significant degree, and if so, it wouldn't necessarily be up to him or you guys to determine what that "relationship" would be. Should your opinions differ, it would be a matter that may well end up being decided by a court. A natural father, even under the circumstances described here, would have parental custodial rights, or at a minimum visitation rights, that would be awarded in the absence of some other good reasons why he shouldn't be involved in the child's life. In sum, I guess what I am trying to say is that the wife, providing she lets the "cat out of the bag" (which is an entirely different ethical dilemna), doesn't necessary get to dictate how the child will be raised.
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