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Newpants

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Newpants last won the day on July 8 2010

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About Newpants

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    Has Left the Building
  • Birthday 02/01/1970

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    couple
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    utah
  1. Yeah, I think you are starting to get it:) It is very common for new people to look into their current pool of friends, coworkers etc to begin their first couple steps and it is almost always a bad idea for many reasons. I'll try to sum up some of my thoughts and concerns as concisely as possible. #1. if a couple dips their toe into the swinging world because one or both are dissatisfied or has "a wandering eye" as another poster put it and they are looking to replace their partner or to get their sexual fullfillment from others instead of their partner, then the $#!^ is going to hit the fan. Since you stated that your wife has her eye on this specific person and and so much of your postings have made it sound like this is all about her and that she wants to do this so she can get her sexual "spark" back, I have some concerns. #2. On the otherhand if a couple looks into swinging together and everyone is on an equal playing field and both people are looking into for the mutual benifit of the couple and you are looking at is as a shared activity for the mutual excitement and benifit of both then that can be a good foundation to get started from. And finally....From reading through your posts I think I am seeing signs of both #s 1 and 2 taking place and while I do have some concerns, I do think you are getting it and are understanding what people are telling you so I do think there is potential here. My advice is to keep talking with each and BOTH of you keeping reading through this website and keep asking questions like the ones you have here. I also agree with the other posters that have said to leave this particular man alone. AT THIS STAGE KEEP YOUR FRIENDS, NEIGHBORS, COWORKERS ETC ETC OUT OF YOUR BEDROOM!! When you feel you have learned enough and each of you understand each other and know what each others motivations and objectives are then you can begin to look for established swingers already in the lifestyle that have also gone through many of the same processes that you have. Good luck, keep asking questions, keep doing research and work together as a couple and it will come to fruition.
  2. Here is the vision I am having. Sunday morning at the Ambition87 house - HE: "So honey, how was your date with Bob last night?" SHE: "Oh God it was great! I'm really horny now lets get it on!" (fireworks follow) HE: "Wow that was pretty hot, do you think I should get a girlfriend on the side too? " SHE: "Ooooh I dunno, you know how I get kind of jealous. I guess you could give it a try. I guess you can ask someone if you can fuck them on the side but otherwise lets see how this works out with me fucking Bob. That got me pretty horny so I think this is all I need to get that spark back. I don't you really need to find anyone else. I think this is going to do the trick just fine." Tues afternoon Mrs Ambition calls Mr Ambition at work - SHE: "Bob asked me to come over for dinner tonight and I was so horny the other day I said I would. Is that OK?" That following weekend - SHE: "Bob has tickets for the concert this weekend and you know how revved up this band gets me, we are going to really have fun when I get home Sunday morning." A couple weeks later - HE: " Honey you've been awfully busy and haven't been home much lately and you've seemed pretty distant and preoccupied lately. Is there something wrong?" SHE: "Yeah, I'm sorry. Things have been crazy at work and I've stressed over all these other things and I just need to get away and unwind and think things through. Bob has gotten a great get-away package through his travel agent and has asked me to go with him to the Bahamas next week so I can get some relaxation on the beach and get my mind off of everything. I think by the time I get back from that I will know what it is that I am wanting to do." Several months later- .......well you get the picture:(
  3. I have a few concerns about this situation and think there needs to be a little more soul searching and discussion before moving forward. My concerns are - - She implies she will get some "spark" back in her marital sex life by banging some other specific available guy she has the hots for but essentially doesn't want to swing with her husband because she wants to "try it out" with this stud-dude first to see if it will work. -This seems a little selfcentered and self-serving in that is her wanting to do this guy she has already picked out on her own for her own excitement and not something that they are working on together as a couple. -The OP seems like deep down his motivation in this is for the wife to be more engaged and satisfied in their own sexlife rather than for him to be swinging himself. In other words if she were more engaged and satsified in their own relationship and sexlife he would be perfectly happy as a traditional monogamous couple. -There isn't much discussion from his post that says that they are wanting to do this as a couple but rather for her to bang this one specific guy on her own to see if that makes her hornier in her own maritial bed. I am just getting the gut feeling that she has the hots for this one specific guy and she is wanting permission to give him a test drive and try him out for size and is wanting permission up front to do it with the justification being that she will be hornier in their own sexlife.
  4. Add one more to the growing list of people saying NOT to invite any of your friends, coworkers or especially any ex's into your bedroom. It is real common for people to start looking into their circle of friends when they first start thinking about swinging and it is almost always a mistake. Sometimes it works out fine but if things go wrong you run the risks of jealousy, feelings developing for or from the 3rd, being outed to your other friends and you run the risk of damaging or distroying the friendship. I would suggest finding a swinger club and attending that. When you go to a club you can meet people face to face and you will know in a matter of minutes if they are the kind of people she is attracted to and you are comfortable with or not.
  5. Instead of playing with people's feeling and hurting and deceiving them for his own fun, let's say that he is raping teenage girls instead, or perhaps robbing banks, or bilking little old ladies out of their social security checks. Then would you want to be trying to understand and support his pastimes??? What he is doing is wrong. Period. It is bad behavior and it is hurting and deceiving other people for his fun and amazement. You are trying to support and accommodate this bad behavior, that makes you bad too. This is not some sexual quirk or some kind of cute little fetish, this is predatory and abusive behavior. He will not be interested in swinging because one of the bedrock foundational concepts in swinging is honesty and open communication. This man is not just a loser he is a predator, a con man and a narcissist. He takes pleasure in deceiving and hurting other people. The person he is going to hurt the most over time is YOU. I realize there are people that get caught up with bad people and they feel trapped and alone. What I don't get is that you KNOW what he is doing is wrong and yet you want to work with him and support this abusive pastime of his. That makes YOU a co-conspirator and an enabler. Since you wanted sincere advice and not for people to tell you to leave him so here is my advice - Prepare yourself for a life of pain and torment and abuse. If you have minor children in your home, send them off to live with other relatives so they do not become his (and your) victims and they don't have to pay the price of your decisions. Try to squirrel away as much money as you can and do not let him near it because manipulators and narcissists will do whatever they can to get what they want regardless of the pain and suffering to other people. You have only seen the tip of the iceberg and he has only 'fessed up to a tiny fraction of what he is doing. You are going to be in for a long, painful road ahead of you.
  6. Oh I get it. I understand where people are coming from and I am not bashing anyone or their answers. I just think it is sad in that IMHO adultery is wrong and destructive and causes pain and turmoil to everyone involved, but society has such a negative view of swinging (which IMHO is usually beneficial if done the right way for the right reasons) that people would rather be thought of as cheaters than known to be swingers. I understand it. I just think it is warped and sad that it is the way it is
  7. Thanks for your comments and feedback. I was suspecting that some of the answers would point to rather being thought of as a cheater when you really aren't, but that just seems so wrong on so many levels:(
  8. A little while back we went out with a few other couples to a vanilla club and things got a little loose and there was some making out and groping between the couples. We all got a grip on ourselves and nothing too out of control happened and nothing ever came of it. On the way home my wife and I were talking about what had happened and what some of the ramifications could be if someone we knew had been at the bar and saw one of us making out with someone not our spouse. The question we posed to each other was if only one of us got caught making out, would we rather that person thought I/she was an adulterer or would we rather fess up that we are swingers and it was OK. A big part of me would rather stick hot knitting needles in my eyes that be thought of as a cheater but the more I think about the more I am not so sure. A few recent threads have got me thinking about that again. In many ways it seems that cheating and adultry are more condoned and accepted than swinging. I would still rather be known as a swinger than thought of as a cheater but I bet there are some that would think otherwise. (I need to add, we are not "out" with our friends, neighbors, coworkers and family etc and never will be) What are your thoughts? If you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar, would you rather wrongly be thought of as a cheater or would you rather fess up and be known as a swinger? And also, do you think most of the people that you ACTUALLY KNOW PERSONALLY would be more accepting of you knowing that you are a swinger or thinking that you are a cheater? What are your thoughts and why?
  9. I'd be willing to bet good money most of the guys on this board sucked royally at picking up women in their single days, MYSELF INCLUDED. I have a personal theory that most of the married men in the lifestyle are the stereotypical "nice guys" that didn't hit on women much and often dated women legitimately and married them as opposed to just skirt chasing and picking up women in bars etc. In other words as counterintuitive as it sounds, the last people to be giving out advice on picking up women is male swingers Seriously, if I were to reenter the dating market or try to pick up chicks on my own, I would fall flat on my face. In a swingers club my wife and I often do fine but on my own, I'd probably get laughed out of a vanilla meet-market bar. Do you have any vanilla friends that are lady's men or are good pick-up artists? they may be able to show you some of the best places and be a coach for you on how to look and act to pick up chicks. While it seems wrong in so many ways, I guess I am of the theory that most of the time a guy would be more successful if he were pretending to be single or even cheating. There was even a post on another thread where someone said that he knew single guys that would buy fake wedding rings in pawn shops because they had better luck pretending to be married cheaters than single guys. Women get hit on all the time by single guys and cheaters and depending on their mood they will either take them up on the offer or not. But a guy who admits he's married and says his wife is OK with it freaks a lot of people out. I don't know if that is a sad testimony on the men of the world or the women of the world but it sure doesn't seem right.
  10. This is not directed towards anything specific in this situation, this is just a little soapbox sermon from my own twisted mind and is intended to simply be some food for thought for Jason or anyone else that is bored enough to read this. A fun night or two of casual, safe, consensual sex never hurt anyone. Where pain, frustration, drama, hurt feelings, jealousy etc etc comes from is relationships and the pursuit of relationships. As humans we innately seek connections but in the swinging realm, people are rarely hurt by meeting someone and having a sexual encounter and then walking away. The hurt comes from trying to establish an ongoing relationship and then "investing" a lot of emotional time and energy into that relationship and then having that investment not be returned. In my personal opinion you were not hurt by your wife and this guy banging one out, people have sex all the time in the lifestyle. You were hurt because you had placed a very high degree of emotional investment into this relationship and in the end your investment was not returned. You felt like you adhered to your end of the bargain and were sincere in your obligations but felt betrayed by others that you felt did not invest into the relationship to your standards and expectations. You felt your level of commitment was not returned. Everyone agreed to the rules and while you continued to be committed to them, everyone else wandered off into other greener pastures once it wasn't fun for them anymore. I've read a few people's accounts on this website that they have had successfull exclusive or near-exclusive relationships for a year or more but I believe those to be a tiny minority. Of all the people that I have known in person that either had an exclusive relationship or at least a relationship with a lot of emotional investment ALL of them have ended with drama and hurt feelings and a few have even ended up with some significant damage to their marriages. Most of them have also either left the lifestyle completely or at least were quite soured on the lifestyle and completely off the market for an extended period of time. I am not knocking anyone's preferences or practices. I am just sharing what I have seen with my own eyes several times in a row without exception. IMHO opinion people think they can avoid the dangers and pitfalls of sexuality if they enter into significant quasi-mongamous relationships with other couples, but the reality is that in swinging the dangers and pitfalls are not the sex but the relationships. Again, this is just my personal opinion and you can do with it what you want but it may be something to consider.
  11. Double piggyback here. Sometimes it's easier to blame a third party than the one that really has really caused the most pain. If some guy that you really aren't all that invested in does something that irks you it's easy to blame him because he really doesn't matter. When a person you really care about sticks a knife in your back it hurts more and sometimes we don't want to accept that that person has hurt us and we try to blame all the issues on someone else.
  12. There are way too many issues here to address individually. To sum it all up in a nutshell, you two are way too unstable and have too many issues and too many communication and mutual respect issues to be swinging. Focus on getting back in touch with each other and work on getting connected and in tune with each other as a couple and don't bring any other people into your sex lives untill you get your own relationship in order.
  13. How was she used? She probably doesnt get that because she doesn't feel she was used either. I don't see how she was used or taken advantage of. We're not talking about a love-struck 15 year old virgin and a smooth talking boy-band rock star here. This is a grown married woman who has experience in swinging. I think you have a right and a reason to be hurt in a number of ways here but I think that your wife was used is one of them. Adult, sexually experienced women are either raped against their will or they voluntarily get naked and spread their legs, they are not used.
  14. This is EXACTLY what I was thinking, I was just trying to come up with the words to described it and The Fuse said it better than I could. I think a lot of your reaction is that you were thinking they were brushing you two off as a couple but once your wife was there by herself they (or at least he) was glad to to head off to the bedroom with her alone and she was happy to accomidate them without you. In other words they weren't brushing you two off as a couple, they were brushing YOU off but were happy to accomidate your wife alone. OUCH!! You definately came up on the short end of the stick and are feeling rejected and as The Fuse said, Disregarded. Yeah, I think you have a right to feel hurt. I wish I had some better cheer-up news and message to offer but I'm afraid I really don't because I am not buying this alcohol as an excuse story either. Unless your wife was drunk to the point of unconsciousness and he raped her, she still had to get naked and spread her legs voluntarily. If you two haven't already had an agreement that you two can play alone at parties without prior consent I think you have cause to be upset over that too. The fact that this supposed "friend" won't return your calls is also an indication that your feelings are being disregarded and he is probably aware you are pissed. IMHO this was a bad and traumatic event for you and I think you should treat it as such and you need to communicate this to your wife so that she realizes the impact it has had on you. I am not saying to dwell on it and let it fester into something worse. I am saying to face up to the fact that you have been hurt and that you have feelings of hurt, disrespect, dishonor and darn near adultry taking place here and it is going to take some time and communication and perhaps even some outside help for this to heal. My bigger concern is that there is perhaps some underlying maritial issues and problems taking place in your marriage even prior to this event and this could be a blow that can can cause some serious damage to your marriage. I am concerned that your wife may not be completely forthright about what has been taking place with these people and her feelings for them/him as well as disregarding your feelings about playing with him and then using too much to drink as an excuse. Has she ever displayed any other bad behaviours and then tried to pass it off on too much drink at any other time in the past? Fuck these supposed friends of yours and write them off. The real concern here is the potential damage this may have caused to your relationship with your wife and any other maritial problems that may be lurking beneath the surface. This was a painfull thread to read and I am sorry you are going through this. I hope things work out and I wish you well.
  15. There's a term for men who are too forward and move too fast for a lady's comfort = "aggressive" and it can be the kiss of death in many circles. There is another name for men who are not forward enough and aren't trying hard enough = "celibate":lol: This whole issue I think is one of the biggest cruxes of being a male in the lifestyle. If you are too forward you are thought of as an aggressive boar and if you aren't forward enough, you are thought of as not interested at best or as a pussy at worst. The challenge is to find the right balance with each individual lady that you are interested in. For some groping is just the beginning and for others a simple 'hello' is probably too much. It's really a case of the Platinum Rule and that is to treat people as THEY want to be treated. You just have to find out from each individual how they want to be treated. The one thing to keep in mind is that it shouldn't be shocking to people if you are somewhat sexual and somewhat sexually oriented in a swinger venue. As long as it is respectfull and courtious and you are treating people as a whole human being and not just as a lifessupport system for a vagina, then even if they are not interested in playing, at least they will not be offended and think of you as a boar for making a respectfull and legitimate approach.
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